Guild Wars 2

Downed state needs to go just in wvw for one reason. Its causing separation within the server. More and more guilds are running by them selves and untagged in wvw because they don’t want people following. Most guilds feel anyone not in their guild is a rally bot and this is where the problem is with downed state in wvw .

Heaven forbid someone want to just play with their friends.

Its not just that they “assume they are rally bots” its that they can’t be held accountable. If your guild sees that you are dieing a lot they can talk to you and make adjustments, if you are unwilling to they can kick you from the guild. You have no control over PUGs, most are unwilling to adjust their gear or play style, when approached become defensive and seem unwilling to be educated.

Also some guilds run strict class comps, with party boon sharing, a solo pug is a liability. That and some guilds want to keep there numbers low, they don’t want to be the map zerg.

It is not downed state that is the problem, it is the rally system.

Should be no rally in WvW. Should have to heal yourself or be healed back to standing, no rally when something dies.

Jaxs.5830:

It is not downed state that is the problem, it is the rally system.

Should be no rally in WvW. Should have to heal yourself or be healed back to standing, no rally when something dies.

I have to agree with this.

That no rally system hmm would be interesting .. Maybe lower the tag limit on a rally gd point i like the idea

Anet won’t take out the rally system purely cus you buy stomps … Not a profitable choice

Guild should be allowed to run solo that why they pratis so hard with one another .. Image on this you throw all you minds together make a team comp and you go into a fight 25,30. Vs ???? 50+ 70 whateva you put all your Dmg down and drop 20 regroup for a goal and that random guy doesn’t and rally’s them all pff .. You just made that attack worth less and you on cool downs

As often as I abuse it, yes, I have to agree – the rally system is dumb as nails, and really makes no sense from any kind of an RP standpoint.

Downed state works fine in PVE and sPvP but in WvW the whole mechanic is just flawed. It primarily benefits those with more people in a fight and punishes players that are outnumbered. Only when you introduce stealth-rezzing does the downed state help outnumbered players.

Strange connection, PUGs and downed state I don’t really this as a reason for downed state to go. The only issues with random players around you is that they won’t join you on public TS and they won’t follow your lead, they won’t commit as guildies do, so you can’t really trust them.

The more support the better the chances…
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/wuv/wuv/Ok-downed-state-in-pvp-seriously/page/2#post3393865

Downed system isn’t the issue. The way in which people are allowed to rally from downed state is the issue.

Not sure I would bother playing anymore if they removed down state completely. But you should have to do more in order to rally.

Zikory.6871:

… That and some guilds want to keep there numbers low, they don’t want to be the map zerg.

This is exactly why 99.3% of the organized guilds do not run with a Commander tag. While we do want a tag option for our guild to use—instead of having to call target on our “Commander”, losing a vital organizing skill that could be used in combat—we do not want to become yet another big zerg/blob/bus/train roaming around. There’s no guild pride in defeating someone when you outnumber them 3:1. There’s however much pride to be gained from defeating someone 1:3. Most long-time WvW players are also well aware of how lagged the server gets (skill lag) when massive blobs clash in certain choke points such as a Keep or Stonemist. We want to avoid it as much as we can.

If you want ArenaNet to look at something in relation to downed state, have them look at underwater downed state, as it’s ridiculous how you take someone out, then they get to just swim around with their second healthbar, with no option for stomping them. E.g., Rangers are a absolute royal pain because of their downed state pet-ress, which is triple as effective under water.

Revamp underwater combat, including better ways of dealing with downed players, and give us a whole WvW map situated under water. I love underwater combat in general, it just needs some tweaking and polishing.

Down state is fine IMO.

It’s the rallying part that’s problematic I think. Killing a rat to rally? That has to go. Perhaps the rallying mechanism needs a slight tweak and be less binary. As it is, any target that dies will rally a bunch of people regardless of how much damage was being done. This leads to “tagging” play.

I think rallying should be based on how much damage you’ve done instead.

For instance, say you’ve dealt 2k damage to an enemy. You go down. Enemy dies, you get N times 2k health, where N should be more than 1 and a configurable value for balancing purposes. Lets assume N as 2 for now, you gained 4k health from an enemy death. If the 4k hps is sufficient to rally you, only then you rally otherwise nothing happens.

Methods.4023:

Downed state needs to go just in wvw for one reason. Its causing separation within the server. More and more guilds are running by them selves and untagged in wvw because they don’t want people following. Most guilds feel anyone not in their guild is a rally bot and this is where the problem is with downed state in wvw .

Zerglings should stay with the zerg and leave guild only raids alone. Stop trying to mess with the guilds game mode!

Downed state prevents complete zerker specs from just phoning it in on the game mode.

The problem is that you can rally because you sneezed at someone. Either the threshold needs to be larger or a death can only rally up to five players (ie. one party).

Methods.4023:

Downed state needs to go just in wvw for one reason. Its causing separation within the server. More and more guilds are running by them selves and untagged in wvw because they don’t want people following. Most guilds feel anyone not in their guild is a rally bot and this is where the problem is with downed state in wvw .

This wouldn’t change the issue at all. Guild groups will still want to run as a group. Even if there is no downstate, they still don’t want people dropping the wrong fields at the wrong time or being in the wrong position.

and besides, there is nothing wrong with people wanting to run as a guild. Either try to join that guild, find a guild more appropriate to you, or just follow the pugmander.

Brando.1374:

Methods.4023:

Downed state needs to go just in wvw for one reason. Its causing separation within the server. More and more guilds are running by them selves and untagged in wvw because they don’t want people following. Most guilds feel anyone not in their guild is a rally bot and this is where the problem is with downed state in wvw .

Zerglings should stay with the zerg and leave guild only raids alone. Stop trying to mess with the guilds game mode!

This. Or join a real W3 guild get the kitten in teamspeak and L2P. There’s so much that goes into a good guild group no one wants some random around kitten up the plan.

Jaxs.5830:

It is not downed state that is the problem, it is the rally system.

Should be no rally in WvW. Should have to heal yourself or be healed back to standing, no rally when something dies.

Seems like the best scenario. Might make Rez abilities more common and not just warrior banner.

Super Kruegs.8967:

Brando.1374:

Methods.4023:

Downed state needs to go just in wvw for one reason. Its causing separation within the server. More and more guilds are running by them selves and untagged in wvw because they don’t want people following. Most guilds feel anyone not in their guild is a rally bot and this is where the problem is with downed state in wvw .

Zerglings should stay with the zerg and leave guild only raids alone. Stop trying to mess with the guilds game mode!

This. Or join a real W3 guild get the kitten in teamspeak and L2P. There’s so much that goes into a good guild group no one wants some random around kitten up the plan.

what makes you think we are not in TS or a real WvW guild?
Like I said stop trying to make us play the game the way you want it to be played.

While I understand why commanders run tagless, it’s not good for the long term health of the game. New players need a way to learn, making it more difficult for them to get involved makes that even more difficult. It’s especially bad when you are running tagless on a tagless map, which certain guilds I won’t name do quite often.

Hats off to guilds like TSYM that actively try to get new players into their TS, make their tactics and builds public, and do what they can to train noobs while still being very much a competitive force on the battlefield.

The connection proposed by the OP is a tad contrived. Guild groups want to run alone for all sorts of reasons. More often than not, it’s simply because they want to run as a guild community (with voice-coms) and not become the bulk of your friendly tea time zerg. After all, as soon as one person in that guild group under performs they instantly become a rallybot themselves.

Methods.4023:

Downed state needs to go just in wvw for one reason. Its causing separation within the server. More and more guilds are running by them selves and untagged in wvw because they don’t want people following. Most guilds feel anyone not in their guild is a rally bot and this is where the problem is with downed state in wvw .

/jranger

Methods.4023:

Downed state needs to go just in wvw for one reason. Its causing separation within the server. More and more guilds are running by them selves and untagged in wvw because they don’t want people following. Most guilds feel anyone not in their guild is a rally bot and this is where the problem is with downed state in wvw .

I’m going to pour fuel on your fire *(you’ll need atleast 480p to read)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=hggCXYcv0QQ#t=150

Question is: Why can’t people ostracize others for poor or negative contributions?

Downed state will NEVER “go.”

It’s a core mechanic of the game’s combat system, and they make bucketloads of money off gem-store finishers.

It’s not going anywhere. Ever.

The only thing I’d change is that it should cap the number of players that can be rezzed from a kill at 3-5.

Ross Biddle.2367:

Methods.4023:

Downed state needs to go just in wvw for one reason. Its causing separation within the server. More and more guilds are running by them selves and untagged in wvw because they don’t want people following. Most guilds feel anyone not in their guild is a rally bot and this is where the problem is with downed state in wvw .

I’m going to pour fuel on your fire *(you’ll need atleast 480p to read)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=hggCXYcv0QQ#t=150

Question is: Why can’t people ostracize others for poor or negative contributions?

Because their negative contribution might be from the following:

- New to WvW
- Trying out a new build
- Lag issues
- Temporarily pre-occupied by RL stuff

Part of their contribution could also be rezzing the people who keep dying because they are too busy worrying about what others are doing instead of themselves.

DeadlySynz.3471:

Because their negative contribution might be from the following:

- New to WvW
- Trying out a new build
- Lag issues
- Temporarily pre-occupied by RL stuff

Someone else guild skill group / raid isn’t exactly the time or place for the first two to be showing up uninvited. The other two are easily forgiven and even protected by being in TS. If not it will probably be assumed that you are kitten ing around.

Downed state is the stupidest thing i’ve seen in 25 years of playing PVP games, and is probably the core reason why sPVP has failed spectacularly. The game would have been considerably better without it.

Instead of finding reasons to remove it (there have been many raised), ask yourself, what does it actually bring to the game that’s positive or beneficial to the PVP side of the game?

scerevisiae.1972:

Instead of finding reasons to remove it (there have been many raised), ask yourself, what does it actually bring to the game that’s positive or beneficial to the PVP side of the game?

Well personally I find it to be an interesting mechanic, in the sense that it is a strategic element to the PvP combat, getting your team members revived should they go down. Or on the flipside, to deny the other team from reviving their team members. With the varying power that differs from profession to profession and their downed states, this can be a bit annoying to deal with granted, but overall I do like that it’s not just mindless combat. I feel it adds to it.

There’s more to stomping than just running over and hitting a button. Can the profession you’re stomping teleport away (e.g., Thief)? Have someone stomp that can also teleport should they move during the stomp. Can they fear, knock you back, and/or otherwise interrupt you? Stomp with someone that has Stability. Mist form from Elementalists? Can’t really stop it from happening, but you can deny them from actually going anywhere by Immobilizing them. Mesmer going to disappear on you for a short duration? Have one persons start the stomp, then another shortly after, chances are they appear again just as the second person is landing the stomp, and chances are within range as well. There’s strategic gameplay to get out of it in other words, involved in something as simple as a stomp.

Underwater is the only place I find downed state seriously annoying, and where I think they can really do changes to make PvP under water more enjoyable. Otherwise I find it to be an rather alright mechanic. But sure, from time to time I wish I could just off myself instead of waiting in downed state, especially when smart players in sPvP keeps you laying there and don’t finish you off, prolonging the time it takes before you can actively get back into the combat, perhaps they could add a suicide skill. Still, prolonging the duration a player is out of combat with keeping them as long as you can in downed state is also a strategic element to the combat we have.

I agree with OP.

Every system in GW2 is designed with ‘social’ gaming in mind – you go to mine a node or kill a champion and it doesn’t matter that someone else is there. There more the merrier.

With the rally system, PUGs can really hurt your guild activities (even bad guildies can hurt you).

It is really the only remaining ‘anti social’ mechanic that GW2 contains.

Keep down state, lose the rally system.

Oh, sorry. I didn’t know I was supposed to have to run with you. Let me forget about wanting to run as a guild or running solo, let’s focus on what you want.

Really though, downed state is not a problem. I’m fine with adjusting the rally system, but the downed state is fine.