Guild Wars 2

simple, retaliation needs internal cooldown on the person it deals damage to. it should not proc more then once per second on you, does not matter how many sources. it may not be that obvious at the moment but more and more people are realizing this and stack retaliation on the group. some abilites can potentially one hit yourself and this is not really fun mechanic. we had a similar buff in warhammer online before it was nerfed and I can assure you that the same will happen here, it will turn WVW into “which group kills himself faster” sooner or later.

I don’t even notice Retaliation works half the time to be honest.

Guardian secret: please dont mention that I told you this:

Stop firing, then it does zero damage.

Looking at enemy buff icons is so hard.

stopping firing is not an option because in a group you can stack retaliation endlessly via combos.

How the heck do you oneshot yourself with retaliation.

Easy. Your ae hits 5 people, and they each have retaliation on them that hits you for 4.5k. There goes your 20k+ health pool. In one hit.

Start using Siege Weapons.

Argee.8396:

Easy. Your ae hits 5 people, and they each have retaliation on them that hits you for 4.5k. There goes your 20k+ health pool. In one hit.

Maths doesnt seem to be your forte. unless your saying each retaliation is hitting you for 4.5k and its 4.5k by 5 times, then theory crafting isnt you forte.

the individual damage of retaliation is in the region of 350.

Could it be your mixing up Wall of Reflection and Retaliation.

If you are my advice stands, stop firing.

I was being sarcastic. I am well aware that retaliation does not hit for 4.5k per tick. Thank you.

Argee, always crying nerf to anything that kills him.

Simple solution, stop firing.

Yeah, sorry.

“Just stop hitting them!” is nowhere near a reasonable option.

Its one thing when its a 1v1 and you can just wait it out or soak the damage.

When you are trying to defend a keep against 30 attackers with it up, its an issue.
Your answer equates to “I guess they get the keep by default”.

Sure, siege is fixed for now. Do you really mean that if there are ten people defending, they should need 10 arrow carts if they don’t want to just stand around and sway?

Not to mention that is not an option either, since siege weapons dont put a target in combat. If you don’t want them to simply regen the hp from the out of combat flag, SOMEONE has to tag them.

I don’t see why 10 people sbould be able easily to AoE considerably bigger force. Get in squad. You need siege to defend efficiently, not just through AoE all over the place. And again, Retaliation doesn’t mirror all your damage. If it would – that will be a problem.

Agree something needs to be done about retaliation, reflection or whatever it’s called. Either fix the AoE coming through keep doors, so defenders can repair in piece, or remove retaliation against ranged weapons, so defenders can at least bombard the gate from within, safely. I was killed way to many times throwing grenades at the gate, from the inside, from a safe distance – it is ridiculous, illogical and frustrating.

Stop hitting is very reasonable. You are assuming a 100% uptime on 100% of your enemies, now thatrs not reasonable
.
30 attackers with it up would mean 6 players continually keeping it up and targeting 4 others without any overlap.

There are counters to retaliation now that it no longer unfairly kills seige weapons. learn them.

many forget that retaliation scales with power and there are plenty of abilities that hit several times per cast. 450 dmg per hit per player is quite reasonable if the guy performing the AOE combo has decent amount of power. an engineer will receive 1350 damage back per player he hits if he throws a traited grenade in a group of people with retaliation. he will be almost dead after 2 thrown grenades. should I even mention the flamethrower? it spreads the damage over 10 hits in 2 seconds and this will kill you instantly.

“stop hitting” basically means giving up and watching how they take away the keep under your nose. if you are defending against a big group of players then “stop hitting” is nowhere near a reasonable option.

Retaliation is a conter to pure physical builds, condition damage builds is a conter to retaliation, cleancing/healing builds is a conter to condition builds, physical is a conter to clense/condition………
Why Stop hitting when almost every class can remove buffs, some can eaven turn them into debuffs….. If the meta game is high on Retaliation and other buffs, bring somthing to remove them…

So Nerf Paper and Scissors, but rock is fine!

Jack.6207:

Retaliation is a conter to pure physical builds, condition damage builds is a conter to retaliation, cleancing/healing builds is a conter to condition builds, physical is a conter to clense/condition………

So Nerf Paper and Scissors, but rock is fine!

that could not be more wrong and shows that you clearly dont play pvp at all.

condition removal will only delay the damage shortly. most conditions damage comes from autoattacks that apply conditions. beside that, everyone should carry atleast one condition removal skill.

condition damage does not counter retaliation. you have to attack constantly to apply conditions and deal damage with them thus you will receive damage back.

builds do not counter. profession and equipment choices on the other hand do.

Retaliation is a boon which reflects some incoming damage back to its source. Damage returned is fixed per level and scales with power, increasing damage by 1 for every 13.4 power. At level 80, base damage is 267.

It’s hardly a huge issue unless you go Full power Full Crit, and 0 Vitality, then go Spin to win with no Boon Removal….

Except it IS an issue when you are aeing people in wvw.

And yes, with the many sources of retaliation a large organized group WILL keep it up perpetually. Its not like it takes any coordination, since it stacks duration.

Retaliation should simply be removed as a concept.

You can’t have a PvP mechanic where the counter to it is to “stop attacking, forever”. Only mesmers and necros get an actual retaliation counter.

And the main thing retaliation does is enable zerging. The counter to zergs is AE but the counter to AE is retaliation. Zergs are holding all the cards. They have numbers and they have a counter to your counter.

Well, you probably got more experience on the area, But im afraid without a Retaliation buff, Pure burst Dps will be the one and only way to PvP….

After all no Condition damage gets returned, no bouncing attacks gets returned, and playing suport clencing a few stacks of might, and 1 rare 3 sec quickness wont really seem to be worth it?

What this thread sound like is that you should be able to exit the fort Endure pain – Spin to win down 20 other players, loot and charge back in…. IMHO if you play as a team, maybe eaven get some combo bursts, you wont die from Retaliation…
(Ps: camp a Cannon and u will still get the I killed a Horde Kick)

Hrist.8972:

Start using Siege Weapons.

They’ve fixed that now.

Use condition damage, or maybe some boon removers, a few classes are really good at that. Everyone just wants to go DAMAGE DAMAGE DAMAGE and whine when it doesnt work. Retaliation is a great way to counter mass AoE and is infact the only way to counter it since wards do not block AoE.

Yet.