Guild Wars 2

It would be nice to see players who would be qualified to lead based on rank and badge/karma rather than 100g commanders that do not know how to effectively call strategy for the forces in WvW or that just don’t know what they are doing.

Too many times I see a known commander leading and some random n00b(s) tags up and splits the force and causes a loss of forward momentum because the lemmings and sheep that just follow tags do not actually read what the commander is saying or looks at the tagged name, they just head to the closest com tag and /face roll keyboard.

Yes there is an option to join a squad, but no one does it.

Thoughts?

While I agree with you, it is kind of late for them to implement this as so many people already have commander titles. A commander badge based on rank, badge, and karma wouldn’t help as well. Many “sheeps/lemmings” have plenty of ranking, badges, and karma from following these so called random commanders. What is to stop them from getting a badge to further their own gains?

Experienced commanders don’t hold any extra authority on a server than noob commanders. It will only lead to frustration to believe anything differently.

It is unfortunate, but it is a reality. The best you can do is hope that the pugs know enough to follow the more experienced commanders.

I can also tell you that only a certain amount of dedicated WvWers save their badges.
I certainly have not. I wouldn’t want to lose my Commander title in WvW just because I didn’t go full hoarder on badges of honour since launch.

Commander Tags should be competed for IMO.

There should be a new rank-currency added to the game where players gain points by achieving objectives, and lose points by dying. Rank points are not shared amongst players, so taking a supply camp with 5 will yield far less than solo’ing a supply camp, etc.

Only the top 25 rank point players on a world get commander tags.

The war is long term the battle much shorter and for the dedicated WvWr there will be days when your on map leadership is less then stellar. Over time the key is to train your forces across the board and integrate the player base. Develop and show clear appreciation for those who lead well and regularly. Reimburse them for siege and upgrades, report regular intel, bring your guild in to help take the enemy momentum away. When the unknown commander springs from the wood work communicate in whispers with them to keep them working as a team. If you lose momentum because they are just a troll then your best bet is to rally your regulars to another commander and isolate the troll. It just became a more challenging period of command for your primary leader.

Separating PVE and WvW command status is not a functional solution. The icon was purchased not earned. It is a matter of public decision to follow in either environment. It is reputation and results that will have the greatest impact on that following.

Many times there have been alternate command / leadership / grouping topics brought up and you should be able to find those discussions for more details on a solution. For now you live with the design and develop a loyal and trained force to minimize the impact of poor leadership.

I’ll say it once, and I’ll say it again.

“In order to get the commander tag you need to foolishly throw 100 gold away.
So I see all commanders initially as fools.”

Said that to my guild about a month or two ago.

They need to remake the system entirely and put it on skill rather than cash.

Maybe the current commander tag could be “ranked” up…. where the current blue commander symbol evolves depending on rank? This would be a simple addition that wouldn’t affect the current system all too much, but will give players more information on which commanders have been more battle tested…

Or maybe all they need to do is show the current wvw rank of your allies somehow. That way you could even tell if you should follow someone even if they have the tag or not.

This thread is filled with people who have never commanded I’m guessing and they are probably mainly pugs too

I was in WvW a few days ago, there were two commanders, one well known and qualified, the other not. The known commander told our zerg to charge an enemy zerg, the other commander told people to retreat. Needless to say things didn’t go so well.

I like the previous idea of evolving the commander icon to take into consideration wvw rank as well. It wouldn’t fix all problems, but I think it would help somewhat.

Rank certainly doesn’t indicate skill level or ability to command. People learn very quickly who to follow and who not to follow. If they having a problem commanding the ‘lemmings and sheep’ as you call them, perhaps they should ask themselves why. It is undeniable that there are people on our server who will drop whatever they are doing to follow specific commanders. If they can have this effect others should be able to emulate it. But….too many times I see commanders be outright @ssholes when they don’t get their way. People skills are an important part of commanding as well.

If you don’t like a commander’s strategy or attitude don’t follow that commander. It’s that simple.

Remember that you’re all on the same team too. That commander may not be the best but he’s trying to win same as you are.

Lastly being the “Good” commander as you refer to it requires an enormous amount of personal skill both in dealing with people and in WvW strategy. Starting off by calling your Militia “sheep” is not going to work for you in the end.

The problem with using just WvW ranking is that it is too easy to solo grind for it and so you never get any xp at actually leading people.

The 100g is just plain bad because anyone with a credit card or enough time solo grinding gold in pve can buy it.

There is no simple process to follow here. It needs to be based on information collected from a number of sources. Some of which include;

Leading a 5 man party. Doesn’t matter too much if it’s pvp or pve so long as you are getting the experience of leading a group of people. The question is, how does the game recognize this? I know you can set a mob as primary target, allowing others to press “T” to assist. You can also mark on the map. If ANet were to develop the tools in this area, then the game can recognize the use of these tools.

2. Success or failure. If you lead a group to using the tools available, what is the result? As Reikou said, points awarded for winning but rather than losing points for dying, the leader would lose points for losing. There are two outcomes for events, either you are successful or you fail. Sure you get xp and karma either way, but the outcome could be something the game keeps track of (points system) along with the use of leadership tools available. Being successful at the event grants you points while failing the event causes you to lose points.

3. WvW rank. While not a primary factor since it is possible to obtain a high rank simply by doing the pve part of WvW solo, it does have some indication to your time spent in WvW so I would think that this should be a small modifier toward your score.

Of course, you should only be able to build up your score by taking the lead position in a group/squad/etc. It would be the key that the game would recognize to start keeping track of your score.

I also don’t agree with the person getting less points for using 5 people to take a camp instead of doing it solo. After all this is about ranking a person’s leadership. IMO they shouldn’t get any if they solo’ed the camp as they didn’t lead anyone. However, leading more than 5 really won’t benefit you any more than simply leading 5.

It would be interesting if commander titles were voted on rather than bought with gold, or karma/badge (rank), like the OP suggested.

So basically in zergs, if one person stands out as a good leader, they can be nominated and voted on.

I think there should be three commander icon colours really:

Blue traditional dorito: Offensive zerg
Purple dorito: Defensive commander
Green dorito: Pve

Only have to buy one dorito, but have the ability to change its colour depending on use.

Jayne.9251:

I think there should be three commander icon colours really:

Blue traditional dorito: Offensive zerg
Purple dorito: Defensive commander
Green dorito: Pve

Only have to buy one dorito, but have the ability to change its colour depending on use.

I actually really like this idea. Although it does not address the OP’s complaint, but never the less I think this would be a great addition overall.

I think it should be 50g -and- you have to get 20 other people to nominate you for commander. Yes one can pay people to nominate, but at least it does ask the community if this person is worthy of command. This gives you a yellow tag, provisional command. Then over time you must have another, different 50 people right click your name and check the “worthy” button to change the tag to blue.

Novice commanders would be yellow tagged, and you could follow them, and expect less out of them. Experienced commanders would be blue tagged.

There will be good commanders and bad commanders, no matter how the tome is purchased.

lilcoffeebean.3149:

Jayne.9251:

I think there should be three commander icon colours really:

Blue traditional dorito: Offensive zerg
Purple dorito: Defensive commander
Green dorito: Pve

Only have to buy one dorito, but have the ability to change its colour depending on use.

I actually really like this idea. Although it does not address the OP’s complaint, but never the less I think this would be a great addition overall.

To be fair, I blatantly stole the idea from a server mate (silke the clever!) ….. But thought it was smart, so I shared

Jayne.9251:

I think there should be three commander icon colours really:

Blue traditional dorito: Offensive zerg
Purple dorito: Defensive commander
Green dorito: Pve

Only have to buy one dorito, but have the ability to change its colour depending on use.

I also like this idea!

Aion also had an interesting system for ranks, it was based off PvP point accumulation.

http://aion.ign.com/wiki/Aion_Abyss_Rank

Obviously the more powerful weapons/armor and abilities would not come in to play, but the actual system for obtaining ranks is a bit more tangible per se.

I could follow a commander around a map and get tons of ranks and such. dosent make me a good leader dose it?
I follow commanders i like and dont follow the ones i dont. easy. same thing for me when i pop my tag once or twice a month.

Reikou.7068:

Commander Tags should be competed for IMO.

There should be a new rank-currency added to the game where players gain points by achieving objectives, and lose points by dying. Rank points are not shared amongst players, so taking a supply camp with 5 will yield far less than solo’ing a supply camp, etc.

Only the top 25 rank point players on a world get commander tags.

That just sounds absolutely silly! You’re saying that solo’ing a supply camp would yield more points for a commander tag than doing something with the group? How would that show they’re any better a commander? Also, dying removing points is also totally rediculous. It would cause any current commander to just run from a fight, to avoid losing their tag, and cause many support people to not do their job. To get a commander tag then you would essentially just have to be the guy at the back of the raid not doing much, or a solo thief ganking people and taking supply camps. I.e. cowardice+running away from fights to live+solo capping points != commander.

Who cares if there’s lots of commander tags? In general, people learn pretty fast who the bad commanders are and who the good ones are. The problem with doing a voting system is that then many smaller guilds might not get their own guild commander for WvW. Anything you do to make the commander tag based on points, currency, etc, means it can farmed just like it can be now. No matter what, it’s a farm, which doesn’t show how good of a commander you can be. The biggest issue is they don’t make a big deal about squads, since they’re still mostly useless, and the only way to know about them is 1) if someone tells you, or 2) you happen to right click on a commander tag.

There should be 2 tags, One you buy for 100gold, and one you buy for like 5k badges. The badges one is red, the money one is blue. That would be pretty awesome IMO, you could have the zerg on one and the havoc squad on the other so they can keep tabs on each other. And also, the pugs would know who is the better WvW commander based on the color.

Hey Assassin X. I hear you.

6 commander pins in our BL on reset night, three of which I’ve never even seen before? ~Darkhaven problems.

I don’t know about other servers, but on SoS we generally know most commanders in WvW and people follow the names they know. Additionally, we work very well as a community and go out of our way not to “usurp authority” from a commander already on a map.

There have been conflicts, but generally people recognize the names and the guild tags of the groups that get stuff done.

I see a lot of Darkhaven people complaining about this, I think you folks should talk to each other and try to get your alliance together. If those of you really into WvW agree to a short list of commanders, it will show in-game and people will follow the commanders who deliver. Our server has their guilds list their commanders and guild leaders so you know who you are dealing with, and who to talk to if they are being detrimental to the cause.
Just some ideas.

I would be interested with a commander profile. Basically you can click on them and information about them pops up, how many keeps/towers/ camps defended, taken and how much time they have been in WvW with their tag up.

Chris.3290:

I don’t know about other servers, but on SoS we generally know most commanders in WvW and people follow the names they know. Additionally, we work very well as a community and go out of our way not to “usurp authority” from a commander already on a map.

This is pretty much how it happens on TC, too. We could have up to 10 commanders on a map, but only three will pop tags, and nobody will pop theirs without at least talking to the guys currently running the map (to see if they want relief or help). It’s kind of nice.

these suggestions make me want to buy a commander title now before its too late.

melodey.4652:

Hey Assassin X. I hear you.

6 commander pins in our BL on reset night, three of which I’ve never even seen before? ~Darkhaven problems.

I have been seeing a lot of this on our server recently. I am pretty sure that these people bought the tag, then decided to see how they fare doing WvW. This doesnt turn out well.

That said, I am not sure there is a clear cut solution to this other than following commanders that have a good track record. Most people who have been playing WvW for a while already have this down pat. The people that dont are the ones that are new to the game.

In the end, I feel the best solution is to educate people who are new to WvW so they can quickly ascertain whether or not they should be following a given commander. I have been harping on about this for a looooong time though, and certainly dont expect it to happen. Either way, by raising the base level of knowledge of our players as quickly as possible, the better we will do overall. Deciding not to follow incapable commanders will just come with the territory of having a knowledgeable playerbase, even if they are still inexperienced.

I dunno, maybe Ill eventually get around to doing this myself, even if I said I was done with the “work” aspect of playing games. We will see..

Yes a lot of the time I will not pop my tag because there are already tags up. I like to give people a chance but i hate when there are 2 com tags up and some unknown pops their tag trying to take credit or take control out of nowhere.

I know I hate when people try to usurp me. If someone is a better commander than I am, who I know and have witnessed their commanding, I will usually have people rally to them, but sometimes random tag up and try to take over before the people I’m leading get to the other known commander I’m trying to transfer leadership to. And they end up screwing us up.

Assassin X.8573:

It would be nice to see players who would be qualified to lead based on rank and badge/karma rather than 100g commanders that do not know how to effectively call strategy for the forces in WvW or that just don’t know what they are doing.

Too many times I see a known commander leading and some random n00b(s) tags up and splits the force and causes a loss of forward momentum because the lemmings and sheep that just follow tags do not actually read what the commander is saying or looks at the tagged name, they just head to the closest com tag and /face roll keyboard.

Yes there is an option to join a squad, but no one does it.

Thoughts?

This seems a problem with your server and not with new commanders. New commanders need to get thrown in the fire in order to develop their style and become a better commander. Try working up an apprenticeship system with newer commanders and have your more experienced commanders talk about splitting of forces on maps.