Guild Wars 2

the siege disabler is in my opinion the destroyer of small tactical (havok/roaming) groups. the cost of 10 supply and 25 badges doesnt make it rare/hard enough to use. one person can hold a entire group at bay because it disable’s siege for 45 sec’s and if there is supply in the objective they can just keep spamming it. pushing the offensive group to either move out of range (trebs/cata’s) or bring a entire zerg to just PvD the gate down.

if you take all that in consideration yes it helps defenders. BUT there is already defensive siege in game instead of having added some BS trick the Anet dev should/could have looked at tweeking the dmg/ wxp traits for certain siege. because of the way they have dealt with it now they are PUSHING ZERGING wich is exactly the reason why most wvw players quit the game. PLZ anet reconsider this item nerf it by giving it a area CD (can only be used every 1.5 min (with the current duration), shorten the disable time on it (from 45 to lets say 10-15 s).
show us that you actually care about all players not just the casual (you have already done this for the people who like to defend now give the small groups some tools)

Absolutely agree. Even catas aren’t safe because they can be tossed from stealth. Disablers slightly slow down a zerg but they completely shut down roaming/havok groups.

This has led to even more zerging because it gives the zergs ample time to respond instead of splitting up to have a defense group.

I am in agreement with this, IMO Siege Disablers need to have a limited number of targets (1 or 2) because it’s just silly when you have five rams up on a gate but, since they’re all clustered together because of their limited range and the surface area of the gate, they all get disabled by one Siege Disabler… and then it happens twice which is plenty of time for an enemy zerg to retaliate and come roflstomp you.

The lesson Anet is trying to teach dedenders is we should be cognizant of all areas of the map, to not take anything for granted and most importantly not rely on walls to protect us. The lesson for invaders is to think outside of the box, be mindful of your surroundings and protect your seige. Last night for example our south camp was taken and camped by a group that set up a regular treb on the other side of the bridge. They got Briar wall down and never even had to get close to do it. Seige disablers were dropped on the treb, but it did no good, the thrower died in the process because only 2 people went down to counter to the offensive group. It was really very strategic on their part.

We asked for more open field fights, voila! Our lesson to ourselves, be careful what you ask for.

hazy you are both right and wrong in this while siege wars is usual in T1 from T2 and down we don’t like to spend 1+ hours on a keep and it doesnt invite for open field combat turtle server will have a easier time turteling up with 4 sup ac’s on a gate + siege disabler spam. they will just keep running back and forth running supply to buy trow their siege disabler. siege disabler does nothing but incise zerging and turtling up.

Reduce the radius affected and don’t allow it to be thrown from behind gates. Done.

HazyDaisy.4107:

The lesson Anet is trying to teach dedenders is we should be cognizant of all areas of the map, to not take anything for granted and most importantly not rely on walls to protect us. The lesson for invaders is to think outside of the box, be mindful of your surroundings and protect your seige. Last night for example our south camp was taken and camped by a group that set up a regular treb on the other side of the bridge. They got Briar wall down and never even had to get close to do it. Seige disablers were dropped on the treb, but it did no good, the thrower died in the process because only 2 people went down to counter to the offensive group. It was really very strategic on their part.

We asked for more open field fights, voila! Our lesson to ourselves, be careful what you ask for.

Wait wot? There is no lessons to be learned here other than ANET has no clue what they are doing and have ruined their own game mode with these. So the lesson is for anet to either remove them from the game or change them a lot because they are broken.

Rodrigo.1486:

Reduce the radius affected and don’t allow it to be thrown from behind gates. Done.

^this and reduce the range maybe.

Not sure if over powered or not but i know that i tried throwing 7 disables today while at 10 supply and none of them worked at all.

Aeolus.3615:

Rodrigo.1486:

Reduce the radius affected and don’t allow it to be thrown from behind gates. Done.

^this and reduce the range maybe.

^and cut down duration for at least 50%. 45sec is way to long imo.

Offair.2563:

Aeolus.3615:

Rodrigo.1486:

Reduce the radius affected and don’t allow it to be thrown from behind gates. Done.

^this and reduce the range maybe.

^and cut down duration for at least 50%. 45sec is way to long imo.

… And golems. Where’s the sense in disabling the most powerful piece of siege for the least amount of time? Also, if the golem is disabled, why can it still move?

Siege disabler is fine and is not OP.

It should be hard to take a castle or keep and not a speed bump to the next.

I have been involved in a number of sieges where disabler tried against us by smaller groups. All succeeded. It just took a little more time and foresight.

Use Catapults and throw up the bubble. Do not stack all your siege devices next to one another. Move some siege further back requiring the enemy come to you. Ensure you have people patrolling the perimeter to keep the enemy at distance. In short use more planning and foresight rather then throw up two rams flip and move on.

Siege disabler has led to MORE in the way of open field fights rather then less.

Havoc groups that number 5 or 10 SHOULD have problems taking a keep or castle.

The only change I would make is not usable through gates. Other then that it fine. That said there are a number of tools available to those on the rams that work through the gates as well.

@babazhook – Your argument is invalid in a game which includes a stealth mechanic. My thief and mesmer can have your siege disabled before you even know I’m there, regardless of where you put it.

babazhook.6805:

Siege disabler is fine and is not OP.

It should be hard to take a castle or keep and not a speed bump to the next.

I have been involved in a number of sieges where disabler tried against us by smaller groups. All succeeded. It just took a little more time and foresight.

Use Catapults and throw up the bubble. Do not stack all your siege devices next to one another. Move some siege further back requiring the enemy come to you. Ensure you have people patrolling the perimeter to keep the enemy at distance. In short use more planning and foresight rather then throw up two rams flip and move on.

Siege disabler has led to MORE in the way of open field fights rather then less.

Havoc groups that number 5 or 10 SHOULD have problems taking a keep or castle.

The only change I would make is not usable through gates. Other then that it fine. That said there are a number of tools available to those on the rams that work through the gates as well.

So you are saying havok groups need to zerg harder?

No, not OP.
It only counters lazy havoc. i.e. no prep scouting, time investment etc.

If you actually prep, scout, space your g cats. supply drain. split up to hit 2 walls, etc.
It will work the same. Have not seen any change for a small man havoc. Yes if we get scouted they can disable. So what? They still bring more ppl to fight, so havoc happens. What you are saying is that pvd is harder. Which is nice.

babazhook.6805:

Siege disabler is fine and is not OP.

It should be hard to take a castle or keep and not a speed bump to the next.

I have been involved in a number of sieges where disabler tried against us by smaller groups. All succeeded. It just took a little more time and foresight.

Use Catapults and throw up the bubble. Do not stack all your siege devices next to one another. Move some siege further back requiring the enemy come to you. Ensure you have people patrolling the perimeter to keep the enemy at distance. In short use more planning and foresight rather then throw up two rams flip and move on.

Siege disabler has led to MORE in the way of open field fights rather then less.

Havoc groups that number 5 or 10 SHOULD have problems taking a keep or castle.

The only change I would make is not usable through gates. Other then that it fine. That said there are a number of tools available to those on the rams that work through the gates as well.

ok lets grab this one argument at the time:
“Siege disabler is fine and is not OP”. if you are talking about a zerg pvd’ing you are right anything smaller. lol just give up.

“It should be hard to take a castle or keep and not a speed bump to the next”.
you only run on friday’s?

“I have been involved in a number of sieges where disabler tried against us by smaller groups. All succeeded. It just took a little more time and foresight”.
what is a “smaller” group according to you? 20-30 or <10

“Use Catapults and throw up the bubble. Do not stack all your siege devices next to one another. Move some siege further back requiring the enemy come to you. Ensure you have people patrolling the perimeter to keep the enemy at distance. In short use more planning and foresight rather then throw up two rams flip and move on.”

mm bubbles yea great idea if it was actually possible too see it clearly. move the siege further back lol i am talking about a group of 5 here attacking a tower they dont have the supply to build more then 2 siege equipments( that is if they have max supply and the camp is claimed with +5. and patrolling the perimeter. you know the range on cata’s its not very far trebs way too expensive and slow.

“Siege disabler has led to MORE in the way of open field fights rather then less.”
if you call buying the defenders more time to call their map blob to wipe 5 people open field shure. and if you call giving the defender’s more time to build 4 sup ac’s shure. that open field.

Havoc groups that number 5 or 10 SHOULD have problems taking a keep or castle.
we already HAD problems with taking a a keep or castle. its called LIMITED SUPPLY.
and 5= havoc/roaming 10 is a zerg

Dream In A Dream.7213:

No, not OP.
It only counters lazy havoc. i.e. no prep scouting, time investment etc.

If you actually prep, scout, space your g cats. supply drain. split up to hit 2 walls, etc.
It will work the same. Have not seen any change for a small man havoc. Yes if we get scouted they can disable. So what? They still bring more ppl to fight, so havoc happens. What you are saying is that pvd is harder. Which is nice.

yes pvd is harder the rest you just grabbed out of thin air slow clap

lloydst.6985:

Dream In A Dream.7213:

No, not OP.
It only counters lazy havoc. i.e. no prep scouting, time investment etc.

If you actually prep, scout, space your g cats. supply drain. split up to hit 2 walls, etc.
It will work the same. Have not seen any change for a small man havoc. Yes if we get scouted they can disable. So what? They still bring more ppl to fight, so havoc happens. What you are saying is that pvd is harder. Which is nice.

yes pvd is harder the rest you just grabbed out of thin air slow clap

Maybe if you actually did havoc you would understand?
Go back to pvd.

Dream In A Dream.7213:

lloydst.6985:

Dream In A Dream.7213:

No, not OP.
It only counters lazy havoc. i.e. no prep scouting, time investment etc.

If you actually prep, scout, space your g cats. supply drain. split up to hit 2 walls, etc.
It will work the same. Have not seen any change for a small man havoc. Yes if we get scouted they can disable. So what? They still bring more ppl to fight, so havoc happens. What you are saying is that pvd is harder. Which is nice.

yes pvd is harder the rest you just grabbed out of thin air slow clap

Maybe if you actually did havoc you would understand?
Go back to pvd.

maybe if you actually did havoc you would know defenders NEVER leave the objective unless they outman you 2v1 they will use either balista’s or trebs to counter your siege.

There needs to be diminishing return. The first disabler applies the full time. Everyone after that gets its effective time cut in half. So lets say the first one is 2mins, the next one will be 1min, then 30sec, then 15sec.

Same should apply to player cc skills but that is for another topic.

lloydst.6985:

Dream In A Dream.7213:

lloydst.6985:

Dream In A Dream.7213:

No, not OP.
It only counters lazy havoc. i.e. no prep scouting, time investment etc.

If you actually prep, scout, space your g cats. supply drain. split up to hit 2 walls, etc.
It will work the same. Have not seen any change for a small man havoc. Yes if we get scouted they can disable. So what? They still bring more ppl to fight, so havoc happens. What you are saying is that pvd is harder. Which is nice.

yes pvd is harder the rest you just grabbed out of thin air slow clap

Maybe if you actually did havoc you would understand?
Go back to pvd.

maybe if you actually did havoc you would know defenders NEVER leave the objective unless they outman you 2v1 they will use either balista’s or trebs to counter your siege.

The point is that they already have siege to counter you anyway. How a disable trap going to change anything if you are running a 5 man? If they have ppl inside they will kill your siege anyway. They will also call for help and bring a 25 man if they can. Its not about siege traps , its about ways to counter you. If they have defenders inside the tower with 2x your numbers you want them to sit there.

What you are thinking about is ninja, where you grab a tower before they can respond. Which will be countered by a scout anyway. Yes siege disable hurts ninja attempts a bit. Its harder to flip and pvd a keep now if at least one guard is there with disablers. But its not any different than them having acs pre-built, inner cannons manned, or trebs behind gate. Is it sometimes annoying when we pvd a tower? Sure, but its no reason to nerf it if its a hard counter. Just adapt and move on. I know this will go unheard, but we use guild golems lately. Very good if you kill cannons,oil and mortars on your first pass. What helps a lot is to hit a camp, get supply. Move to kill defensive siege. On your next round around the map get 2 guild golems ported to the gate and stagger 2 sup rams. You will still get wiped sometimes, but you can get in and kill some inner siege for the next attempt/drain supply.

Any frustration is worth it when you can see your own side’s mapque try to take enemy keepin off hours with 10 omegas and getting stopped by 10 ppl with disabler and cannons. Stupid play should not be catered to on any server, any guild.

^This. The main problem with the siege disabler is that it is new. And some people don’t like/don’t adapt well to new things. Capturing towers in a 5-man party was never easy, and most of the time a defender will not even use a siege disabler, but rather ask his zerg to make a quick detour. And I truly think it can be used in the way it was intended to be. I was in a 15 man group defending a keep at 3am against a zerg of 50 Germans, and the siege disabler not only let us buy the time needed to treb down their rams, but also improved their tactics : they tried catapults, trebuchets, PvD, and after an epic fight full of dolyak defending, Sparta-like charges and balista sniping lasting an hour and a half, they lost courage and went to sleep. It really felt like a real siege situation : a handful of brave defenders trying to exhaust a see of barbarians at their door (no offense, I like you Abbadon’s Mouth folks).

Dream In A Dream.7213:

lloydst.6985:

Dream In A Dream.7213:

lloydst.6985:

Dream In A Dream.7213:

No, not OP.
It only counters lazy havoc. i.e. no prep scouting, time investment etc.

If you actually prep, scout, space your g cats. supply drain. split up to hit 2 walls, etc.
It will work the same. Have not seen any change for a small man havoc. Yes if we get scouted they can disable. So what? They still bring more ppl to fight, so havoc happens. What you are saying is that pvd is harder. Which is nice.

yes pvd is harder the rest you just grabbed out of thin air slow clap

Maybe if you actually did havoc you would understand?
Go back to pvd.

maybe if you actually did havoc you would know defenders NEVER leave the objective unless they outman you 2v1 they will use either balista’s or trebs to counter your siege.

The point is that they already have siege to counter you anyway. How a disable trap going to change anything if you are running a 5 man? If they have ppl inside they will kill your siege anyway. They will also call for help and bring a 25 man if they can. Its not about siege traps , its about ways to counter you. If they have defenders inside the tower with 2x your numbers you want them to sit there.

What you are thinking about is ninja, where you grab a tower before they can respond. Which will be countered by a scout anyway. Yes siege disable hurts ninja attempts a bit. Its harder to flip and pvd a keep now if at least one guard is there with disablers. But its not any different than them having acs pre-built, inner cannons manned, or trebs behind gate. Is it sometimes annoying when we pvd a tower? Sure, but its no reason to nerf it if its a hard counter. Just adapt and move on. I know this will go unheard, but we use guild golems lately. Very good if you kill cannons,oil and mortars on your first pass. What helps a lot is to hit a camp, get supply. Move to kill defensive siege. On your next round around the map get 2 guild golems ported to the gate and stagger 2 sup rams. You will still get wiped sometimes, but you can get in and kill some inner siege for the next attempt/drain supply.

Any frustration is worth it when you can see your own side’s mapque try to take enemy keepin off hours with 10 omegas and getting stopped by 10 ppl with disabler and cannons. Stupid play should not be catered to on any server, any guild.

It’s not working like that. My 5 man group will be trying to hit towers/keeps and the 5-10 people inside will continuously disable us until they can call in a full zerg to wipe us or chase us off.

If we build cata’s out of throw range we’ll have a couple stealth to run up and disable.

It used to be the five to ten would come out to fight us if they couldn’t destroy our siege from the walls, now they just have to slow us down until the zerg gets there.

The only way we can take a keep now is to siege up a tower and start trebbing, call in our own zerg, or completely ninja it while the fight is happening somewhere else.

Keeps and towers should be difficult to take. If you are on a low pop server where a small handful of people can take a tower then i can see disables being a problem for how you are used to doing things. I think the havoc groups are still doing what they do best. Starving the enemy and keeping them guessing. Havoc groups should not be able to take a tower unless you are on a low population server in which case your “havoc group” is your largest force.

Siege disabler help the larger server more than the smaller servers that has mostly havoc groups. As long as their is a scout inside a tower/keep you can stop a havoc group from taking it with their siege. Now you do not even have to build siege to guard a tower from havoc group. Just toss a disabler on the gate call you main zerg which is 2-3x the size of the havoc group to defend it.

A lot of havoc group come out when a server does not have a main zerg/guild leading at the time. They are suppose to take advantage of the large server not being everywhere at once (pvd the other borderlands) or not having enough people guarding non-upgraded towers/keeps. The siege disablers keep reinforcing the idea that you should move to larger server or do not bother trying to contribute to ppt if you are not part of a zerg.

Havoc squads run in tandem with zergs. Havoc squads setup the main zerg/s for success. Good Havoc squads will lay the foundation for zerg/s to sweep maps. If your Havoc squad isn’t working, at least to some extent, with your primary force (should you have one) then it isn’t really a Havoc squad, its more of a group of people running around doing whatever they like. Sure you can take some small time towers here and there but in the end on the grander scale of WvW, this shouldn’t be a job that a small group of people can accomplish. It currently can be even with the disablers. Seige can be set in all kinds of crazy locations to attack anything and everything and do ample damage to those targets. Even if your small group isnt able to completely take a tower or keep then at least you did something much more important, which is supply starving.

So the arguments you all are making is that only zergs should be able to contribute to PPT. Open field fighting should strictly be zerg vs zerg, or zerg runs over small groups.

It sounds like you might prefer EotM to WvW.

No, just that havoc isnt about flipping keeps. But more about starving supply from keeps and getting them ready for a big group to flip . Though on a lower tiers its actually much easier to flip keeps with 2-5 man havoc groups. I have taken bay solo a few times, but that was vs SBI, where no one scouts. So nvm. Back on topic, Siege disabler is not an issue for havoc. It seems to be an issue for small man groups trying to flip towers/keeps on low tier servers. Which is an issue. As someone that only uses them to prep cannons on a keep I wont care if they get a nerf. But your OCX/SEA will when enemy ktrain hits their 10/15 ppl trying to hold a keep.

Jim Hunter.6821:

babazhook.6805:

Siege disabler is fine and is not OP.

It should be hard to take a castle or keep and not a speed bump to the next.

I have been involved in a number of sieges where disabler tried against us by smaller groups. All succeeded. It just took a little more time and foresight.

Use Catapults and throw up the bubble. Do not stack all your siege devices next to one another. Move some siege further back requiring the enemy come to you. Ensure you have people patrolling the perimeter to keep the enemy at distance. In short use more planning and foresight rather then throw up two rams flip and move on.

Siege disabler has led to MORE in the way of open field fights rather then less.

Havoc groups that number 5 or 10 SHOULD have problems taking a keep or castle.

The only change I would make is not usable through gates. Other then that it fine. That said there are a number of tools available to those on the rams that work through the gates as well.

So you are saying havok groups need to zerg harder?

No i tend to run in groups of no more then 5 and we flip towers with regularity. We have also taken keeps with the same. It just takes a bit of time and strategy.

I rarely run EBG because I am not a great fan of zergs.

There are other ways into a tower or keep then the front gate. Others have already given advice as to how Havoc teams can work. Having a larger group at one gate of a keep as a smaller works a gate or wall on that same keep is very effective.

it is not required for a havoc group to flip said keep tower when they attack it. All they need to do is weaken a wall or gate and move on. Flip camps hit yaks and keep ongoing pressure on supplies. There no need for a full blown siege. Not every location will be defended. There nothing wrong with taking two walls down by 50 percent and then moving on when the defenders and disablers arrive. They now have to burn the supply in that tower to repair or run supply by foot.

Throwing up trebs to work in conjunction with a catalpult works and all that is need on that treb is one person.

Again the issue seems to be people want to just throw up rams , knock down the gate and move on. The issue here is so many focus on TAKING a keep and tower when it would not be required if they defended it in the first place.

This speaks to the real issue and it NOT siege disablers. It is that people get better rewards when they take a tower over holding it. If you have the manpower to run a 5 man havoc group where were they when that tower they now trying to flip needed to be defended?

If as claimed the siege disabler OP then you should never have lost a keep/tower in the first place.

babazhook.6805:

Jim Hunter.6821:

babazhook.6805:

Siege disabler is fine and is not OP.

It should be hard to take a castle or keep and not a speed bump to the next.

I have been involved in a number of sieges where disabler tried against us by smaller groups. All succeeded. It just took a little more time and foresight.

Use Catapults and throw up the bubble. Do not stack all your siege devices next to one another. Move some siege further back requiring the enemy come to you. Ensure you have people patrolling the perimeter to keep the enemy at distance. In short use more planning and foresight rather then throw up two rams flip and move on.

Siege disabler has led to MORE in the way of open field fights rather then less.

Havoc groups that number 5 or 10 SHOULD have problems taking a keep or castle.

The only change I would make is not usable through gates. Other then that it fine. That said there are a number of tools available to those on the rams that work through the gates as well.

So you are saying havok groups need to zerg harder?

No i tend to run in groups of no more then 5 and we flip towers with regularity. We have also taken keeps with the same. It just takes a bit of time and strategy.

I rarely run EBG because I am not a great fan of zergs.

There are other ways into a tower or keep then the front gate. Others have already given advice as to how Havoc teams can work. Having a larger group at one gate of a keep as a smaller works a gate or wall on that same keep is very effective.

it is not required for a havoc group to flip said keep tower when they attack it. All they need to do is weaken a wall or gate and move on. Flip camps hit yaks and keep ongoing pressure on supplies. There no need for a full blown siege. Not every location will be defended. There nothing wrong with taking two walls down by 50 percent and then moving on when the defenders and disablers arrive. They now have to burn the supply in that tower to repair or run supply by foot.

Throwing up trebs to work in conjunction with a catalpult works and all that is need on that treb is one person.

Again the issue seems to be people want to just throw up rams , knock down the gate and move on. The issue here is so many focus on TAKING a keep and tower when it would not be required if they defended it in the first place.

This speaks to the real issue and it NOT siege disablers. It is that people get better rewards when they take a tower over holding it. If you have the manpower to run a 5 man havoc group where were they when that tower they now trying to flip needed to be defended?

If as claimed the siege disabler OP then you should never have lost a keep/tower in the first place.

Oh we do all of that. My group spent the majority of last week holding SW tower, sieging it up and trebbing bay to drain supply. Between the siege and the siege disablers we easily held the tower until our zerg hopped on the map, we found an opportunity to ninja bay or we got tired and went to bed. We didn’t even bother upgrading beyond the walls because there really wasn’t a need to do so.

The problem is during all of this time we had way less fights than we used to get. Any groups of about 10 or less and we would jump out of the tower to fight them but they would usually just run. Anything more than that we would drive off with siege and use disablers to shut them down.

It is stupid how easy it is to defend now if you have players that know what they are doing. The game has become siege/zerg wars. It’s extremely boring but unless you completely ignore PPT (which I often do) it is what you need to do to be effective.

So you are a roaming small man group that likes fights. Why do you even care about some pugs taking/keeping a tower? Find a zerg and take it apart. if they run away from you , well I am not sure getting into the tower to just kill 3 pugs would be fun anyway.
What you want is to move to another server that is facing a server with a lot of small mans. Try anything vs NSP or IOJ.

Dream In A Dream.7213:

So you are a roaming small man group that likes fights. Why do you even care about some pugs taking/keeping a tower? Find a zerg and take it apart. if they run away from you , well I am not sure getting into the tower to just kill 3 pugs would be fun anyway.
What you want is to move to another server that is facing a server with a lot of small mans. Try anything vs NSP or IOJ.

your stupidity keeps flabbergasting me. all you are capable of saying is that everyone should play like you do which is basically a mapblob hopping bl’s you must be from a T1 server or SoS.

lloydst.6985:

Dream In A Dream.7213:

So you are a roaming small man group that likes fights. Why do you even care about some pugs taking/keeping a tower? Find a zerg and take it apart. if they run away from you , well I am not sure getting into the tower to just kill 3 pugs would be fun anyway.
What you want is to move to another server that is facing a server with a lot of small mans. Try anything vs NSP or IOJ.

your stupidity keeps flabbergasting me. all you are capable of saying is that everyone should play like you do which is basically a mapblob hopping bl’s you must be from a T1 server or SoS.

Never run deeper than 10. Mostly 2. You on the other hand show as much ability to learn as an eotm ktrain. GL with your PvD. I am sure its fun.

As you seem unable to actually say why siege disabler needs to be nerfed, putting you on ignore. Have fun.

This is the kinda feed back that ANET doesn’t need. Heres the problem, when there are defenders and plenty of them. Where there is coverage and plenty of it. Where there is plenty of defensive siege and players manning it.

Adding in siege disablers was the worst thing ANET could have done to T1.

It have nothing to do with siege placement or scouting. You are fighting servers that dont need these things. Adding these in makes it ridiculously unbalanced in favor of the defender that doesn’t need this device to begin with.