Guild Wars 2

The only reason these threads are getting locked is because you kittens keep starting new threads spamming the issue. You’ve made your point, move on, stop flogging the dead horse. If the threads are locked it means they have heard you and are probably discussing it internally at their daily meetings.

The first respond to a major problem, lock everything down to avoid bad word of mouth. Sorry to say tho it has already spread beyond these forums.

btw, reminds me how the bioware stuff happened.. you know with magic spacechild/god

The first thing about EVE is they have that little mechanic known as Reinforcing, which is in place exactly to counter the likes of nightzerging. Yeah, despite EVE being a global server.

It’s always the same names – that tiny minority having a whinge about the world ending “night capping”. Thousands and thousands are actually playing and (OMG!) enjoying WvWvW no matter what time zone they are in.

It’s always the same small minded minority who get on the forums to have a sooky la la. Happens every game. The minority forum whingers think that if they whine loudest that means they must be right and things will have to be changed to suit them.

I seriously doubt the threads are being removed to stifle discussion. My bet is that they are being removed because its the same people creating multiple threads and they are all just repeating what has been argued about many times over.

We don’t need 20 new threads every day about the same thing, from the same people.

Exactly, i mean, this is getting ridiculous.
Blame your server for bad pvpers, bad tactics or presence, you can either change instantly for free or praise other server for bettering those aspect and deal with it. But no, instead some choose to whine hard about time zone, server accessibilty worldwide or player that play during night time (omg how dare they play while I am sleeping !), asking the game to be nerfed or even shut down. How much of an entitlement and selfish way of thinking those player have is totally beyond me.

Also after all the insults and attempts to destroy our playing time, they’ve messed up their relationship with people playing in the Oceanic etc timezones. Why would we go to your servers seeing as we clearly aren’t welcome.

When you can’t win, complain!

Since the beginning Anet has stated that wvwvw will be 24/7.

Whine some more please. It will be beneficial for your server. More whiners = less migrants=more losing

Not much to discuss.

People that complains about Night-Capping in a 24/7 game is the Problem.

So basically Anet is admitting that the server with the highest populations are going to win.

No offense, but I agree with the planned imbalance of WvW. However, it only works when you stop allowing people to freely transfer to servers that are already winning. I’m surprised that free xfers have been allowed to continue for as long as they have.

You can’t form effective tactics when every time your server loses a match, it also bleeds manpower as well. Eventually no amount of skill, organization, or tactics will make up for raw numbers.

I’m all for fighting until the bitter end, but at a certain point it DOES just become ridiculous.

Eliteseraph.4970:

So basically Anet is admitting that the server with the highest populations are going to win.

No offense, but I agree with the planned imbalance of WvW. However, it only works when you stop allowing people to freely transfer to servers that are already winning. I’m surprised that free xfers have been allowed to continue for as long as they have.

That’s not what he said.

gg tho

yup.. that’s not what Ramon said.. basically he says get more people to cover your KITTEN ( i typed this) while you’re sleeping…..

RamonDomke.9638:

War is not fair, war is not pretty, war gets out the worst in us

That’s why I don’t join wars and I spend my free time playing games.
You should look up in a dictionary and check the difference between the two.

Your “war” is unfun for most of the people playing it. Your MMO is not the only one on the market. Not by a long shot. Try to guess what these two facts imply.

Also, good job on designing pvp “for casuals” like you told you were doing. I guess staying up at 4:00 AM and/or setting up intercontinental guild alliances is classified as “casual” by Anet employees.

Anyway, thanks for what is up to now the most honest explanation about the situation. At least now I know I can simply stop wasting my time with this.

MagnusLL.8473:

RamonDomke.9638:

War is not fair, war is not pretty, war gets out the worst in us

That’s why I don’t join wars and I spend my free time playing games.
You should look up in a dictionary and check the difference between the two.

Your “war” is unfun for most of the people playing it. Your MMO is not the only one on the market. Not by a long shot. Try to guess what these two facts imply.

Also, good job on designing pvp “for casuals” like you told you were doing. I guess staying up at 4:00 AM and/or setting up intercontinental guild alliances is classified as “casual” by Anet employees.

Anyway, thanks for what is up to now the most honest explanation about the situation. At least now I know I can simply stop wasting my time with this.

You know that nothing happens when you lose, right? You constantly earn your rewards every time the timer flips. Holding more territory just makes it so you earn rewards faster. You are constantly in a state of winning. That’s about as casual as it gets.

RamonDomke.9638:

Hi Everyone,

All is fair in love and war – and as love, WvW is a battlefield.
There are exploits, I’ll give you that – but then there is coordinated effort to ensure your world or your team uses each and every resource they have to their advantage.

War is not fair, war is not pretty, war gets out the worst in us – and the best – and even if we have excluded open world pvp from the rest of the game, this is exactly what happens on the WvW maps: It is the ‘playground’ for strategists and great tacticians, it is the place for coordinated efforts and mean ideas in the middle of the night.

As nice as i’m sure that sounds, the truth is WvW is not war it’s a game and what matters is whether it is fun. At the moment the score system takes away a huge amount of the enjoyment as close games don’t exists and the actions of 90% of players are meaningless.

Its funny how you mention its a place for strategists, great tacticians and coordinated efforts because none of those things matter in the grand scheme of things. The only thing that matters is the numbers you have at night and if you don’t see that you don’t understand what’s happening in game.

Dear RamonDomke,

Not sure if i can get a reply.

1) Would really appreciate having some perspective on ANet’s take on the huge influx of free Xfer to top WvW servers. IMO community sorting themselves out, had not seems to quite work out as expected .

2) Also to Lock the free Xfer & encourage Xfer to lower populated servers by incentivising ppl & guilds ( at the very least not penalising them).

RamonDomke.9638:

Higher server population and maximum player cap in world vs. world do not go hand in hand. Yes, there is a statistical advantage of this happening – since you can fall back to a higher number of players. But stochastics and ‘large numbers’ do not per se grant an advantage – since we are talking mere ‘probabilities’. It still could happen that you have a caped out world population – of which no one wants to (or can) play at night.

The free character transfer is NOT a core mechanic of the game – but instead a launch only initiative to balance out server population (to actually prevent the above mentioned ‘possible scenario’). It will go away at some point.

Thanks Ramon everything you have said makes sense and thanks for talking to us about this.

With these, should shut all the QQ’ers down. I rather Anet spend more time on tackling the game bugs first

Bring flames to the battlefield and not in forum

Ral.5326:

At the moment the score system takes away a huge amount of the enjoyment as close games don’t exists …

I agree with you 100%…. wait.. hold on a sec…

Maniacle.7028:

SF: 183,080
DH: 176,911
SoR: 168,322

Can’t really post the winner yet…….

I guess you’re wrong, Ral. This is why I absolutely never deal in absolutes.

Well, time to transfer back to the top1 server I guess. More queues = more fun.

I guess my only concern at this stage is a server 100% dominating 2 others. Yes its war but having nothing to do isn’t fun either.

i think one of the reason why people from established guilds reluctant to move to servers with lower population where they can have 24-hour coverage if they do is because of the guild influence/upgrades reset…..

may be, if A-Net can remove that penalty, we can see population balance kicking in sooner…

azizul.8469:

i think one of the reason why people from established guilds reluctant to move to servers with lower population where they can have 24-hour coverage if they do is because of the guild influence/upgrades reset…..

may be, if A-Net can remove that penalty, we can see population balance kicking in sooner…

Was thinking this too. I guess I thought if they were going to do it they would have done it by now.

I’m assuming that free transfers will stop soon which makes this good idea too late. Perhaps it was too hard to implement and that’s why it didn’t happen.

ok ramon,
we going to exploit the hell out of your game.

we dont have to be afraid using every mapglitch we find?
using every skill we find to keep the rendering as slow as possible?

we jump into claimed keeps and stealing the orb and travel up to the sky to carry it home?

after that we organize one of our 300ppl guild to server switch and just block the queue of our opponents.
we queu for stonemist for both servers and just feed our homeland zerg for badges and to secure the victory.

its sad that you argue with “war is not fair” instead of “we want a platform for competition”.
just because you cant handle your own technical issues you argue that everything should be allowed?
even more a punch then the invite to mesmer-exploit by eva yesterday.

RamonDomke.9638:

Higher server population and maximum player cap in world vs. world do not go hand in hand. Yes, there is a statistical advantage of this happening – since you can fall back to a higher number of players. But stochastics and ‘large numbers’ do not per se grant an advantage – since we are talking mere ‘probabilities’. It still could happen that you have a caped out world population – of which no one wants to (or can) play at night.

The free character transfer is NOT a core mechanic of the game – but instead a launch only initiative to balance out server population (to actually prevent the above mentioned ‘possible scenario’). It will go away at some point.

Servers are starting to balance out. However, it’s being proven almost every day that the servers which have a consistent population through all 24 hours of the day are doing far better than those without, even when the servers with weak night crews are doing well during the day when their people are on.

The nature of the average gamer means people are far more likely to transfer into a server that’s already doing well rather than taking a risk and moving to a server that’s on the losing end in the hope that they can make the difference. Doesn’t this mean that the current unrestricted transfers simply compound the issue?

It is possible that a severe minority of players might decide to go to an underdog server, but likely only if it was a coordinated effort along with an entire guild. This is a very unlikely scenario.

Server transfers happen 24/7 with a 24 hour lockout, whereas server matchups only recalculate once a week. How can this be an effective system of balancing when a person who gets tired of losing can instantly jump ship to the winning side, further disrupting the matchup?

Must a person wait until after all these free transfers have utterly unbalanced server population to find out if their own server is worth staying on?

RamonDomke.9638:

Hi Everyone,

All is fair in love and war – and as love, WvW is a battlefield.
There are exploits, I’ll give you that – but then there is coordinated effort to ensure your world or your team uses each and every resource they have to their advantage.

War is not fair, war is not pretty, war gets out the worst in us – and the best – and even if we have excluded open world pvp from the rest of the game, this is exactly what happens on the WvW maps: It is the ‘playground’ for strategists and great tacticians, it is the place for coordinated efforts and mean ideas in the middle of the night.

Night capping is one of those valid tactics to score some points in a lasting battle – to get your world the upper hand, or cancel out daytime supremacy by another well coordinated opponent.

As Guild Wars 2 will progress in time, so will world vs. world and core gameplay mechanics. But for now, night capping is one valid possibility to ruin your enemie’s days – pun intended.

http://i46.tinypic.com/2ms3jbk.png

if you dont want to change anything.
why you dont just random matchup?

a ranking and tiers doesnt make sense at all, when you keep your “night activity wins”-position.

Edited by moderator: Quoted deleted since the original message is no longer existing

If you were serious about that obviously empty threat, you’d have not asked in this thread. Perhaps a PM or an e-mail might have be a better way for you to communicate your kitten tears.

Just limit difference between incoming points to 300 (if one side got 170, 2nd side got 150, than 3rd leading side can have 450 incoming points max) no matter how many objectives leading side got. It will slow down growing of lead and there wount be situations like 60/50/610 or smth like that

Ral.5326:

RamonDomke.9638:

Hi Everyone,

All is fair in love and war – and as love, WvW is a battlefield.
There are exploits, I’ll give you that – but then there is coordinated effort to ensure your world or your team uses each and every resource they have to their advantage.

War is not fair, war is not pretty, war gets out the worst in us – and the best – and even if we have excluded open world pvp from the rest of the game, this is exactly what happens on the WvW maps: It is the ‘playground’ for strategists and great tacticians, it is the place for coordinated efforts and mean ideas in the middle of the night.

As nice as i’m sure that sounds, the truth is WvW is not war it’s a game and what matters is whether it is fun. At the moment the score system takes away a huge amount of the enjoyment as close games don’t exists and the actions of 90% of players are meaningless.

Its funny how you mention its a place for strategists, great tacticians and coordinated efforts because none of those things matter in the grand scheme of things. The only thing that matters is the numbers you have at night and if you don’t see that you don’t understand what’s happening in game.

This a thousand times.

It’s a game. The basic heart of a game is to be fun. WvWvW is not fun if your work disappears over night and the entire world is one color.

Zerging through an empty world and capping things while facing maybe two or three people is not fun and not rewarding. Being one of those two or three people is less fun.

But if you keep things as they are now, that tiresome, non-competitive part of the game will be the determining factor. Then it just turns into an international recruiting game. Does the german ANet guy want the German users to leave European servers due to a WvWvW mode that has gotten a bit out of hand?

It’s not clever strategy. It’s just sticking a starbucks on every street corner until the other coffee shops are outta business.

Even if free transfers stop that wont stop the exodus from non 24 hour coverage servers to the winning servers. Determined guilds will pay for the transfer. As long as the scoring system works as it does today.

As someone already mentioned, strategy doesn’t matter, tactics doesn’t matter. It doesn’t matter that you dominate the battle at your primetime when your population, which has lives and jobs, can be online and use top notch organisation and cunning tactics in a grand strategy to dominate your foes. Its all meaningless in the current scoring system as it doesn’t reward strategic brilliance but only how long someone has held a keep. Keeps which you can capture fully upgraded with 5 people if there is no off peak opposition. So it dosnt matter how many battles these people win, they will always loose the war to circumstances they can not do anything about, and that’s a source of frustration for any individual. In GW2 nobody remembers the Spartans.

EvE online handled this issue well. Im not sure that ArNet wants a game where only a couple of servers have a vibrant WvW community and the rest have quit the game out of frustration. Thats what will happen in a very short time if these frustrations arent adressed.

Just look at SWTOR and Ilum. The devs had a vision about Illum. The players didn’t agree with it as Illum didn’t work in a way to support how the player RvR community works. The community stayed around living on the hope that it would be addressed and there were many promises that it would. But eventually the game died.

RvR is the ultimate endgame. If that doesn’t work it will be the end of the game. So get off your high horses ArNet and analyse how your competitors have failed and succeeded and stop trying to make the very same mistakes.

RamonDomke.9638:

Hi Everyone,

All is fair in love and war – and as love, WvW is a battlefield.
There are exploits, I’ll give you that – but then there is coordinated effort to ensure your world or your team uses each and every resource they have to their advantage.

War is not fair, war is not pretty, war gets out the worst in us – and the best – and even if we have excluded open world pvp from the rest of the game, this is exactly what happens on the WvW maps: It is the ‘playground’ for strategists and great tacticians, it is the place for coordinated efforts and mean ideas in the middle of the night.

Night capping is one of those valid tactics to score some points in a lasting battle – to get your world the upper hand, or cancel out daytime supremacy by another well coordinated opponent.

As Guild Wars 2 will progress in time, so will world vs. world and core gameplay mechanics. But for now, night capping is one valid possibility to ruin your enemie’s days – pun intended.

only difference is, this is a game and not war.
and games should be fun before being serious.

anyway, i dont mind night capping.
u have more important things to take care off, like invisible enemies.

I can not imagine how more can one miss the kitten point.

Free transfers allow for mitigation of the whole “night-capping” problem by allowing you guys to recruit whatever guilds play at that time.

Free server transfers also allow for you guys to recruit more WvW guilds, if your server is filled with people but are mainly PvE

WvW is an alternate gaming scenario and environment. At no time is WvW the entirety of GW2

WvW is 24/7, always have been, and is international. EU players can play on NA servers and vice versa. The reason why they divided up into the two reasons is most probably ping.

If you’re complaining about “night cappers” taking everything you captures in “prime-time”, ask yourself how you would feel if your nightly exploits and battles are rendered null by the opposing server’s primetime team. Again, you don’t want your oceanic friends and counterparts to feel alienated, do you? If not, go ahead and make them feel like it doesn’t matter and they’re second class players.

@Jayne – the people QQing about night cappers couldn’t give 2 kittens about Oceanic players.

justsayin

@ignicity, that isnt the point.

the thing is that 200players are rewarded for dominating 5-20players by the same amount of points then 150players winning over 200.

there is a huge misslead.

The problem stems from guilds not wanting to transfer since they lose all guild upgrades since launch. That’s starting to build up into a huge loss for anyone considering the change. Free transfers are MEANT to make balancing easier, but as a person on Henge all I’ve seen them do is allow people to keep joining our server. The problem with this is that all that is occurring is an increased amount of people on an already overpopulated server that has queues out the kitten.

I agree with the choice on the Oceanic allowance as an Oceanic myself. Suck it up and play on!

@hunTShoo – So your telling me that because my server can support 200 players 24/7 and yours cant, mine should be punished?

@hunTShoo – Then it’s the responsibility of the server with no night coverage to plan and strategize and recruit oceanic/night players.

Jayne.8749:

I can not imagine how more can one miss the kitten point.

Free transfers allow for mitigation of the whole “night-capping” problem by allowing you guys to recruit whatever guilds play at that time.

Free server transfers also allow for you guys to recruit more WvW guilds, if your server is filled with people but are mainly PvE

WvW is an alternate gaming scenario and environment. At no time is WvW the entirety of GW2

WvW is 24/7, always have been, and is international. EU players can play on NA servers and vice versa. The reason why they divided up into the two reasons is most probably ping.

If you’re complaining about “night cappers” taking everything you captures in “prime-time”, ask yourself how you would feel if your nightly exploits and battles are rendered null by the opposing server’s primetime team. Again, you don’t want your oceanic friends and counterparts to feel alienated, do you? If not, go ahead and make them feel like it doesn’t matter and they’re second class players.

Yet if I look at the server screen I see [NA], [EU] and for EU even separate languages. How it that promoting international play?

The problem is that currently the server that is able to cap out the zones the most seems to win. It doesn’t matter what time you play at, if there’s a lack of players at some point the point gap widens and afterwards it just snowballs out of control due to horrible game mechanics.

If this is how it’s meant to be then fine I’ll join an overpopulated server and claim victory as most on this board seems to do.

bluescape.9176:

You know that nothing happens when you lose, right? You constantly earn your rewards every time the timer flips. Holding more territory just makes it so you earn rewards faster. You are constantly in a state of winning. That’s about as casual as it gets.

Nothing to do with consequences (hell if there were consequences for something totally out of my control I’d not even be bothering to post about such a ridiculous game design).

Problem is, all my work is useless. My brain is useless. My tactics are useless. My efforts are useless. Everything I do is going to be made utterly inconsequential by 50 or so people who cap all 4 maps as soon as the other servers are not there anymore.

Doesn’t really matter for whom that period is “day time” or “night time”; the critical flaw is that whenever you’ve full maps (and thus the maximum amount of players) you can only gain a small fraction of the points that the people without opposition can gain. Hence the maximum amount of actual PvP activity (and maybe the brilliant use of tactics, of strategies, of coordination etc. etc.) has the least impact on the scoring, while the maximum impact is achieved whenever there’s the least amount of players going on, and most of that impact is achieved by doing PvDoor instead of PvP.

This game feature was sold to me as having two major characteristics which made it appealing to me:

A) the winner is the one with the best brain, not the biggest zerg
B) WvW game mode is casual so you don’t need to waste ungodly amounts of effort just to play a successful game

The end result of their design (which we now know is fully intended) is the exact opposite of this. Whoever has the biggest zerg at the time when online population is minimal auto-wins the match. This implies:

A) I need to put ridiculous amounts of efforts either in amount of hours logged in, in setting up UN-like intercontinental guild meetings just to have a chance, or both
B) stupidity is not punished. Just make sure you have the biggest zerg at those times, and even if that zerg is composed of braindead m.ro.s you will still win.

This setup is simply not any fun to me. And hey, it’s ok, no one says Anet needs to design games to cather to my tastes. I just wish they’d been a bit more honest about it.

Oh well. I should have learned the lesson with Funcom and EAware, but I kept hearing nice things about Anet and their good work on GW1 so I took the bait. Lesson conclusively learned the hard way: there are simply no honest MMO companies in the world (“we don’t want you to grind”… yeah right), and joining an MMO before at the very least 6-12 months have passed is an utter waste of time and money.

It’s impossible to recruit people to low pop night servers. What is your recruiting pitch going to look like? “Hey, are you tired of winning? Come to our server and turn our 200 vs 10 battles into 200 vs 20 battles!” Yeah that’s not going to work. If that worked then people would be flooding out of HoD to go to Devona.

In wars, they end when one side gives up, and then that side the loses ceases to exist. Is that your endgame here Anet? Making it so that everyone on a server with no nighttime pop gives up and those servers die?

Jayne.8749:

@hunTShoo – Then it’s the responsibility of the server with no night coverage to plan and strategize and recruit oceanic/night players.

OK, how? Oceanic players don’t grow on trees.
Oceanic/Asian players need their own servers, that’s the only solution to the nightcapping issue without enforcing strict playernumber locks in WvW.

RamonDomke

…
Night capping is one of those valid tactics to score some points in a lasting battle – to get your world the upper hand, or cancel out daytime supremacy by another well coordinated opponent.
…

war is never fair – thats right but waiting till enemy logs off and then attack abandoned objectives is ONLY show of YOUR WEAKNESS

ONLY WEAK people are afraid of accepting a challenge

Seriously guys, you now have official word that this is not an issue from Arena.Net. Stop arguing the point. The decision is made. Get over it. Move on. Accept the decision. Learn to have fun. You won’t always win. You may even get flogged. Sometimes more than once. Probably a lot more than once. If you want fair, you can always PvE, sPvP, find a game that suits your needs. There are plenty out there.

Ignicity.7938:

@hunTShoo – So your telling me that because my server can support 200 players 24/7 and yours cant, mine should be punished?

yes, as long there is a rating and a ranking behind.

@Tito- Then it simply requires more effort. How do winning servers do it? It’s not impossible.

Or rather

“waaaah, they’re playing different times than me in a 24/7 battle. They MUST BE BOOOTED”

So the answer is starting another whine thread? In eve the devs will tell you.

“if it makes you angry – build and army and crush them”