Guild Wars 2

Cyclonite.5786:

This is contradicting. Either night capping is valid or it’s not. I just don’t see why people keep complaining and coming up with suggestions to “fix” or “balance” something that has been stated to be working as intended.

Ok think it about like this.

“Using Mesmer Portal to transfer mass amount of players is a valid tactic”
“Using it to teleport through gate is too strong and needs to be balanced”

This is told by a game designer.

Night capping is the same. It’s valid to use as a tactic. But it’s too strong and needs to get balanced.

Cloud.7613:

Okay, so you only care about your day of playing? have you played during the morning yet? Because as I’ve said before, I’m very certain your server has players, just so happens your server lost.

No, I care about the entire 24 hour cycle, not just the time when I play. Each timezone’s peak impacts everyone elses peak and the overall scoring of the match. Steps need to be taken to make sure that the matches stay competitive even if the timezone for many of the servers is vacant.

And no, my server doesn’t have a strong NA off-peak presence. If I hop online early in the morning before work its a ghost town.

Furthermore, the top servers need to stop pretending that their tactics, individual skill, or organization level is better than anyone elses. One thing that I see consistently throughout the 24 hour and nw the 1 week matches is that everyones playing at basically the same level and that its population at off hours that turns the matches.

Mulitplex.2017:

Sky.9347:

And?

I do what I want, and I am not an Oceanic player. They SHOULD say “screw off, I’ll do what I want” because they aren’t obligated to you, or ANet, or anyone else here. (generally speaking)

That’s fine and that’s what I’d expect that you’d say. That is why people are asking ANet to fix you regardless of your thoughts on the issue.

I actually, basically, agreed with people that population imbalances were a potentially major problem. Check my post history, I’ve even argued for things such as scaled point systems (based on your current # of enemies), designating servers as WvW focused, even offering small incentives to large guilds who move to small servers.

But I’ve also read a lot, and thought a lot, and tried to understand the counter arguments.

It came down to a question I read on GW2Guru forums… “Is HoD the solution or the problem?”
This framed the whole debate for me in a new way. Is the solution to this imbalance creating a few HoD-esque servers, or eliminating HoD-esque servers?

I’ve thought long and kitten this. On one side, the pull of consistently contested and tense matches is alluring. On the other side, the pull of true freedom and liberty is alluring.

Finally, ANet has officially voiced their stance: HoD is the solution.

So now, my goal is to help convince the community to create 6 to 9 HoD-esque servers, so we can all just resume KICKING EACH OTHERS kitten

EDIT: “kicking each others kitten” sounds kind of dirty… is this considered an exploit?

Cloud.7613:

This only proves there is a bigger issue at hand, Free, Transfers. We have had a lot of players, did really well, then they left to go to henge or another big server. A lot of them come back, but it hurts at least my server a lot. I’m sure it hurts others, fix this before fixing a problem that isn’t exactly a massive deal, actually, WvWvW was designed around being 24/7 anyway.

Taking away Free Transfers will help to alleviate some of the issues seen with ‘Night Capping’ or ‘Server Jumping’ to the winning side. Ultimately people will get tired of logging into WvW each night to see no one is there to fight them and will eventually spread to other servers or play at different times to actually have someone to fight.

Sure the bonuses from WvW are nice, but in my opinion, its the combat of WvW that makes is so exciting. Yes there isn’t much balance at the moment, but given a few more week long match ups and we will see some of these issues start to fade out.

My two cents anyway.

Kazim.2043:

Ok think it about like this.

“Using Mesmer Portal to transfer mass amount of players is a valid tactic”
“Using it to teleport through gate is too strong and needs to be balanced”

This is told by a game designer.

Night capping is the same. It’s valid to use as a tactic. But it’s too strong and needs to get balanced.

The only reason Mesmer portal is too strong is because the game engine isn’t able to render new player models fast enough. I fail to see how a game engine problem is relatable to night capping.

mrzero.2486:

RamonDomke.9638:

Higher server population and maximum player cap in world vs. world do not go hand in hand. Yes, there is a statistical advantage of this happening – since you can fall back to a higher number of players. But stochastics and ‘large numbers’ do not per se grant an advantage – since we are talking mere ‘probabilities’. It still could happen that you have a caped out world population – of which no one wants to (or can) play at night.

The free character transfer is NOT a core mechanic of the game – but instead a launch only initiative to balance out server population (to actually prevent the above mentioned ‘possible scenario’). It will go away at some point.

I didn’t read past this point really because it is evident where this thread is going to go. I do have one question. Before free server transfers go away, are there any plans to help guilds out that want to transfer? I.E. let them keep the buffs and such that they have earned so far. I have seen it stated that so guilds would transfer but they have decided not to because they would have to start over from scratch.

As much as some people hate “nightcapping” I am sure the people doing it are going to get very bored at some point.

There was an ANet post that they were trying to find a way to allow guilds to keep their influence on transfer, so that we could sort these problems out ourselves.

If you have more people you win. There is no tactics involved. Check the queues and compare it to rankings:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/wuvwuv/Queue-size-data-from-9-14-to-9-18-NA/first#post200124

Sky.9347:

Finally, ANet has officially voiced their stance: HoD is the solution.

So now, my goal is to help convince the community to create 6 to 9 HoD-esque servers, so we can all just resume KICKING EACH OTHERS kitten

I’m still trying to figure out when ANet brought in the German CM to advise them on WvW adjustments. All other Dev statements were made a long while back before the problem became so obvious.

Here’s to hoping that their official stance is adjusted to meet the current situation.

World vs World vs World is really fun.

Yes it is just a game, but it’s war in a game. It’s really fun, it’s not about winning, it’s about killing, attacking, defending, surprises, tactics, massacares, the amount of possibilities that can happen are endless. You can be last, control nothing on the map, and still get a great rush and sense of pride when you take a mere tower, you then build siege weapons and defend this tower like no tomorrow

By the way, winning and controlling 100% of the map is boring, there is nothing to do, nothing to take, no action. Why people think that this is the most important is beyond me. Oh and also, try having 5 hour queues, yeah that sounds like fun hey! Because the most important thing is winning!! And one last thing, fighting hard during your prime time and doing well is not a waste of time, you still get to keep every point that you earn, that never goes away. So you log in, play for x hours, have fun battles, then log off, your server falls behind while you sleep and go to work, so what? Who cares. You still have your fun and get what you want to get out of WvW when you play.

Mulitplex.2017:

Sky.9347:

Finally, ANet has officially voiced their stance: HoD is the solution.

So now, my goal is to help convince the community to create 6 to 9 HoD-esque servers, so we can all just resume KICKING EACH OTHERS kitten

I’m still trying to figure out when ANet brought in the German CM to advise them on WvW adjustments. All other Dev statements were made a long while back before the problem became so obvious.

Here’s to hoping that their official stance is adjusted to meet the current situation.

Forgive my ignorance here, but what is it you keep saying about the “German CM”? I don’t visit the German forums, and so I haven’t read anything there. Can you link this post of his?

Sky.9347:

Forgive my ignorance here, but what is it you keep saying about the “German CM”? I don’t visit the German forums, and so I haven’t read anything there. Can you link this post of his?

Page 2 of this thread. Look at the developers title.

Seems a little strange to me so I’m not taking it as the gospel on any future WvW adjustments until a known team member confirms it.

Smokesacks.1084:

Cloud.7613:

This only proves there is a bigger issue at hand, Free, Transfers. We have had a lot of players, did really well, then they left to go to henge or another big server. A lot of them come back, but it hurts at least my server a lot. I’m sure it hurts others, fix this before fixing a problem that isn’t exactly a massive deal, actually, WvWvW was designed around being 24/7 anyway.

Taking away Free Transfers will help to alleviate some of the issues seen with ‘Night Capping’ or ‘Server Jumping’ to the winning side. Ultimately people will get tired of logging into WvW each night to see no one is there to fight them and will eventually spread to other servers or play at different times to actually have someone to fight.

Sure the bonuses from WvW are nice, but in my opinion, its the combat of WvW that makes is so exciting. Yes there isn’t much balance at the moment, but given a few more week long match ups and we will see some of these issues start to fade out.

My two cents anyway.

Oh I’m not saying they need to do it now, I want it now, but I can wait. My point is while people can transfer to other servers, they will not remain on a server that is losing they will go to a server that is winning. Making the winning side that much closer to victory and the losing side spiraling out of control to obvious and imminent defeat. While this is in tact, there is no reason for players to stay loyal.

Kazim.2043:

If you have more people you win. There is no tactics involved. Check the queues and compare it to rankings:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/wuvwuv/Queue-size-data-from-9-14-to-9-18-NA/first#post200124

RamonDomke.9638:

Higher server population and maximum player cap in world vs. world do not go hand in hand. Yes, there is a statistical advantage of this happening – since you can fall back to a higher number of players. But stochastics and ‘large numbers’ do not per se grant an advantage – since we are talking mere ‘probabilities’. It still could happen that you have a caped out world population – of which no one wants to (or can) play at night.

Cyclonite.5786:

Kazim.2043:

If you have more people you win. There is no tactics involved. Check the queues and compare it to rankings:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/wuvwuv/Queue-size-data-from-9-14-to-9-18-NA/first#post200124

RamonDomke.9638:

Higher server population and maximum player cap in world vs. world do not go hand in hand. Yes, there is a statistical advantage of this happening – since you can fall back to a higher number of players. But stochastics and ‘large numbers’ do not per se grant an advantage – since we are talking mere ‘probabilities’. It still could happen that you have a caped out world population – of which no one wants to (or can) play at night.

The queue size maps directly to ranking and the graph also shows how servers with lower rankings don’t have their WvW zones maxed out 24/7.

Mulitplex.2017:

Nationality and time zone don’t matter to me. What matters to me is that the WvW zones are equally populated as much as possible throughout the day.

That will never, ever happen without a hard limit and ANet said they wouldn’t do it.

Mulitplex.2017:

Sky.9347:

Forgive my ignorance here, but what is it you keep saying about the “German CM”? I don’t visit the German forums, and so I haven’t read anything there. Can you link this post of his?

Page 2 of this thread. Look at the developers title.

Seems a little strange to me so I’m not taking it as the gospel on any future WvW adjustments until a known team member confirms it.

Heh… I guess it’s your last vestige of hope. I understand, but I would say don’t give up yet.

We, as a community, can still fix this. I can’t fix it and neither can you – but if we are respectful, reasonable, articulate, and persuasive we can perhaps change the trend of thought.

Don’t go all chicken little on me here.

Sky.9347:

Heh… I guess it’s your last vestige of hope. I understand, but I would say don’t give up yet.

We, as a community, can still fix this. I can’t fix it and neither can you – but if we are respectful, reasonable, articulate, and persuasive we can perhaps change the trend of thought.

Don’t go all chicken little on me here.

The complaining on the forums is going to continue until they make adjustments (and they work) or the game dies. I’m not “holding out hope” as I’m just expecting that adjustments will be made. It makes the most sense and would retain the most players if they changed things vs leaving them as they are now.

Mulitplex.2017:

Sky.9347:

Heh… I guess it’s your last vestige of hope. I understand, but I would say don’t give up yet.

We, as a community, can still fix this. I can’t fix it and neither can you – but if we are respectful, reasonable, articulate, and persuasive we can perhaps change the trend of thought.

Don’t go all chicken little on me here.

The complaining on the forums is going to continue until they make adjustments (and they work) or the game dies. I’m not “holding out hope” as I’m just expecting that adjustments will be made. It makes the most sense and would retain the most players if they changed things vs leaving them as they are now.

I think changes that are NOT inside the WvW system would have the best chance of being acceptable to all players.

My personal preference, if anything is done at all, would be to simply designate 30% of the servers as WvWvW Focused, and then tell everyone they had 1 week left of free transfers.

A player able to log during the night is worth more points gain than a player able to log in prime time.

It’s as simple as that.

Consequently, many prime time players feel discriminated against, as they are as skillful as the night players, yet worth a lot less.

It’s human nature. Wiser people might be able to see the pettiness of this natural response, but that won’t help ANet’s stand on this matter in general. Nor will locking threads.

I’ll gladly trade you my ability to play late at night for a permanent 9-5 Mon-Fri shift. If primetime players feel discriminated against they need to look up the term “First World Problems”.

Ragnar Dragonfyre.1806:

I’ll gladly trade you my ability to play late at night for a permanent 9-5 Mon-Fri shift. If primetime players feel discriminated against they need to look up the term “First World Problems”.

Everything on this forum is a first world problem.

Mr. Ferguson, i respectfully ask that you go back to 24 hour matches. Things as you say are in the works behind the scenes that actually require code work, which if i understand correctly. That’s at least 3-4 weeks away, instead of wasting 5 days on most matchups that don’t matter. Can we go back to 24 hour matches until you tidy everything up?

And i’m on ET, i know we will win this week. But, its not fun after the first 24 hours when we play tier 2

It’s actually rather obvious that regardless of which avenue ArenaNet chooses (“fix” it or not), there are going to be a large number of people upset about it.

That said, think about it from a business standpoint… WTF?

Put forth the effort to change it, only to have the same result? Or leave it alone and simply try to improve what you already have, and people still complain?

I hope to see WvW improve as time passes, but I’m not going to stress over this. As aforementioned, I’ve little trouble reconquering territory during the day when the fight is strong.

I WvW, as does my entire guild, to PvP on large scale. A way for our entire guild to PvP together without being limited to separate parties. A way to use the resources we earned elsewhere in the game and have it mean something to the server itself in the bonuses we provide them through very fun gameplay.

I wouldn’t penalize off-time players. I’ve a friend in Saudia Arabia who plays, as well as a guildie in Hawaii. The latter is eating an early dinner with his family when I’m going to bed late (he’s a good 6 hours behind me). Naturally he’ll be in WvW during “non-peak” times, and I’m not going to punish him for it.

As aforementioned, I’d like to see the optional upgrade of automated defenses, make it a bit harder for far smaller groups late at night to conquer an entire map all at once, but not stop them altogether and still give them the same points for conquest. This would also make the daytime sieges far more interesting.

Mulitplex.2017:

Judas.5432:

That’s where you’re wrong. I would argue that the reason SBI is staying on top is because we don’t get discouraged just because we aren’t winning.

Kittens, man, WvWvW is fun to play regardless of whether or not your work is undone by morning. We will continue to take kittens back and fight like hell to win. Nobody is unbeatable despite their powerhouse numbers at night.

Complaining won’t get your morale up. Head to Lion’s Arch and let people know you are pushing back. Find a guild that will focus on WvWvW and make your game fun despite what happens when you are offline.

I’m not referring to SBI, ET, or JQ with my posts. I’m talking about the rest of the servers without significant off-peak presence. The guilds that are all piling onto the top 4 servers have a skewed view on what is good and what is bad. They are submitting themselves to queue issues in order to win.

To clarify: complaining will hopefully get ANet to realize the problem. That is why people are complaining here.

Then yes. If your point is that “It’s been long enough and free server transfers should stop now,” then I agree with you completely. That, unfortunately, is not what people are complaining about. This whole thread is about night capping, which is and should be a non-issue. People play when they are going to play and should not be penalized just because others aren’t online when they are playing.

Cirus.5748:

World vs World vs World is really fun.

Yes it is just a game, but it’s war in a game. It’s really fun, it’s not about winning, it’s about killing, attacking, defending, surprises, tactics, massacares, the amount of possibilities that can happen are endless. You can be last, control nothing on the map, and still get a great rush and sense of pride when you take a mere tower, you then build siege weapons and defend this tower like no tomorrow

By the way, winning and controlling 100% of the map is boring, there is nothing to do, nothing to take, no action. Why people think that this is the most important is beyond me. Oh and also, try having 5 hour queues, yeah that sounds like fun hey! Because the most important thing is winning!! And one last thing, fighting hard during your prime time and doing well is not a waste of time, you still get to keep every point that you earn, that never goes away. So you log in, play for x hours, have fun battles, then log off, your server falls behind while you sleep and go to work, so what? Who cares. You still have your fun and get what you want to get out of WvW when you play.

Thank you. I should also note that I get more kills defending our towers and keeps during the wee hours (when I’m able to be up that late) than I generally do during peak server times. I may not be able to hold them off but I benefit more, personally, than I do when my server is full of people.

The main difference is all my kills become defensive rather than offensive :-\

Mulitplex.2017:

Ragnar Dragonfyre.1806:

I’ll gladly trade you my ability to play late at night for a permanent 9-5 Mon-Fri shift. If primetime players feel discriminated against they need to look up the term “First World Problems”.

Everything on this forum is a first world problem.

Ha! That’s exactly what I was thinking. What problems, exactly, could be posted on the forums for a $60 video game that requires broadband internet speeds which isn’t a 1st world problem?

Wow this topic is HAWT!

disclaimer : this ’night capping thing i totally disagree with, its fine

Question – What kind of mitigating mechanic would you have?
- What time would it start?
- What time would it end?
- How do you fairly reward those people who cant play during the day, or maybe are from a different country but playing with a guild, or chosen that server?

Prime-time players, realise that prime-time means exactly that. The time of maximum prime (or, when most people are on).
That means things will be heating up with lots of people (generally max with queues)

Oddly enough there are these times aside from prime time…. and there isnt lots of people on then. But people still play.

So really its kinda your fault for not staying up late. no but really….
Should they reduce the amount of dungeons people can run in non-prime time hours?
Perhaps the pvp tourneys should be disabled?
No trading post either except primetime?

Really now.

A game work with millions of people keeps ticking over when you’ve gone to bed. Get used to it.
(and not its not unfair.. what did you lose? 6% chance for a crafting crit? infact its suddenly unfair for that server because they have a hundred places to defend, and the same amount of people to defend with.)

I have a pretty remarkable time in WvW. The score at the top of the screen seems pretty trivial compared to the fun of a good bout.

I don’t understand why people are against improvements to the WvWvW system. Is being associated with a winning server that big a deal?

If you’re Isle of Janthir, and you’re active at oceanic primtetime aka NA night-time, then wouldn’t you want to be matched with other servers that have the same activity levels? What is the fun to fight nobody and then have the other side fight nobody when attacking you?

While HoD mailed it in last night, SBI went through and capped nearly all of HoD borderlands. And you know what? It wasn’t satisfying. It was outright boring.

And, no, everyone recruiting to be 24/7 won’t only not work, but create new problems. It’s not a tactic, it’s a mess.

It’s not about winning or losing. It’s about having a good competitive fight. It’s about WvWvW beinkittenroved to be more fun.

edit: wtf why did it censor improved?

Stop complaining that it is dark and you have to sleep. It is alot more fun during the night. Soloing supply camps. or 3 people taking a tower. It is all about the population. The higher the population is the more people show during day time. And more pressence overall. If you have queue during prime time you have to play in off-time.
“The larger army wins”
I have a possible solution in mind by introducing doppleganers more advanced than NPCs and with stats and items and skill like normal players,with different builds. This dopplegangers will fill the player number to the map limit. So it will always be even ofcorse players are supposed to be smarter than NPCs use siege etc. But potential 10v20 would turn into 10+90gangers vs 20+80. This gangers could also follow orders by commander which will improve its functionality.

etiolate.9185:

edit: wtf why did it censor improved?

“It’s about WvWvW beinkittenroved to be more fun. "

bein “g
+
imp” roved

Though why you can’t say that is beyond me…

Mulitplex.2017:

No, I care about the entire 24 hour cycle, not just the time when I play. Each timezone’s peak impacts everyone elses peak and the overall scoring of the match. Steps need to be taken to make sure that the matches stay competitive even if the timezone for many of the servers is vacant.

Furthermore, the top servers need to stop pretending that their tactics, individual skill, or organization level is better than anyone elses. One thing that I see consistently throughout the 24 hour and nw the 1 week matches is that everyones playing at basically the same level and that its population at off hours that turns the matches.

I agree completely with what’s being said above.

Personally i see some players already threatening on the forums to go back to their old games, and saying things involving the death of GW2 WvW.
I think it’s a bit radical to already come to such thoughts after exactly a month(it’s the 28th today)

The game isn’t perfect, and it will never be perfect, however i believe Anet will do what they can to solve as many issues as they can.
I’m hardly a fan of the response made by Anet, and i hope this view may change maybe as Anet looks further into this.

But like i said before, we’re a month further since launce, so i do have faith WvW issues, not only this one(badges, commander status, PvE in WvW etc….) will be looking into or fixed.

Ex

There is several ways of changing night capping (or for that matter any off hour capping) without removing it totaly, the best choice is to adjust point gains outside prime time. This means that the point generating objects would give more during the time they are more contested and less points during the downtime where there is less requirements to keep it.

Divide the day into 3 zones, low, medium and high then just be at 30/60/100% of the points we have today with primetime being a full 6 hours, medium being another 6 hours and low 12 hours.

It would not screw anyone over yet it would balance a verry unsavoury feature that will lead to insults etc otherwise.

Hey all, Matt Witter has made a thread about night capping. Please divert all discussions on the topic to that thread: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/wuvwuv/Night-Capping-and-YOU