Guild Wars 2

To ArenaNet (a suggestion):

I think WvW needs to be more flexible in the ways you can attack/defend a keep. By removing the ability for players to teleport into a keep and knock people off you in fact make it less like a real war…in real war people do use ladders to attack keeps and in fact people do fall off of them…this is a real tactic yet I don’t see why it is considered “annoying” and “not fun” but really if you want to make WvW more like true war you have to introduce more of these different tactics to attack/defend like using ladders and being able to knock people off of keeps. There of course has to be a limit where the keep walls are simply too high to use any kind of ladder to climb over, but for those small towers it should be usable on the walls since they aren’t that tall anyway. Right now it is too easy for people to defend with just a small group of players…just standing above and raining AoE on those mindless people banging on a piece of wood…that is simply stupid….we don’t do that in real war…we use LADDERS or think of ideas to get OVER that obstacle…i think WvW will be so much more fun if you have ladders that are destructible….it would make people think twice about having such a small group of people to defend…it doesn’t make sense even in real war to have 5 people defend against 30people attacking…yet it works because the 5 people have such a big advantage that is further increased by the limitations imposed by the game that you cannot teleport up and players are stuck outside…

Also why I mentioned real war is that because you guys justified not using player names because it mirrored what happens in real war…yet you take away these fun tactics even tho it is what is used in real war? Why not go all the way?

TL;DR
1. WvW is supposed to mirror real war: no player names, more flexible tactics to attack/defend keeps/tower like using ladders to go over those walls.
2. WvW isn’t supposed to mirror real war: show player names+colored armor and I dont’ care about ladders/porting/knocking back/off those walls…because it isn’t supposed to mirror real war.

and Anet’s philosophy is that when they were gonna do something they are gonna do it right…and if they want to make WvWvW like real war it is no where close right now.

Thank goodness it doesn’t mirror real war! In all of my wartime experience I’d say 90% of the time you’re sitting around waiting for your 1stSgt to come up with dumb kitten for you to do to battle ‘complacency’

Oh and please don’t introduce escalades, people climbing up narrow ladders feels like a bad idea in this game…

oldthrall.7823:

To ArenaNet (a suggestion):

it doesn’t make sense even in real war to have 5 people defend against 30people attacking…yet it works because the 5 people have such a big advantage

That’s exactly how it works in real war. Otherwise what’s the point of building a defensive position at all?

“it doesn’t make sense even in real war to have 5 people defend against 30people attacking”
You do know the movie “300” was actually based off history, right? Using higher ground, fortified areas, or natural bottlenecks has been a mainstay of “real war” since as far back as there were people devising tactics to win wars.
And video games are and will most likely be restricted by code for the foreseeable future, this knocks out the “flexibility” that you think should be implemented. Video games will probably never be as flexible as real life, and if they are, we would all just sit in VR helms all day and never actually live our lives.

Dimok.6187:

Video games will probably never be as flexible as real life, and if they are, we would all just sit in VR helms all day and never actually live our lives.

Got that right!

Dimok.6187:

Video games will probably never be as flexible as real life, and if they are, we would all just sit in VR helms all day and never actually live our lives.

I’m still waiting for my ‘Matrix’ capsule. The tech industry is not keeping up with my expectations.

Honestly, I think we’ve got enough options for siege right now; defenders are largely there to delay you until a counter-force can arrive to drive off the attackers.

This will never mimic real war. As it stands, you are basically being punished for using the wall for siege equipment. In real medieval siege, being on a wall is of the utmost importance. You can shoot the guys standing at the base of the wall, your arrows will fly father, etc.

In GW2, you will get aoe’d. So, currently, the “best” defenses have become putting your siege inside your walls, aimed at chokepoint they have to come through. In order to shoot from the walls, at somebody at the bottom of the wall, you have to walk wayyyy out to the edge. And then get pulled down, or just straight up killed. The enemy sieging the towers/keeps currently have the upperhand, assuming all else is equal.

Arrowcarts were intentionally made prevent zerg dominance, ladders would only undo that, and I’m firmly against them.

What I’m saying is that the way WvW is right now limits you from using your skills to much…I should be able to knock people down the wall yet it doesn’t work and I have a shadowstep I should be able to port to people above…so if they take the fun out of this then add in ladders…but they didn’t do it.

Dimok.6187:

“it doesn’t make sense even in real war to have 5 people defend against 30people attacking”
You do know the movie “300” was actually based off history, right? Using higher ground, fortified areas, or natural bottlenecks has been a mainstay of “real war” since as far back as there were people devising tactics to win wars.
And video games are and will most likely be restricted by code for the foreseeable future, this knocks out the “flexibility” that you think should be implemented. Video games will probably never be as flexible as real life, and if they are, we would all just sit in VR helms all day and never actually live our lives.

Even if you do add in ladders it still doesn’t mean the people defending don’t have an advantage…they still do…just less of it and it just makes attacking a keep much more fun and not mindlessly boring.

oldthrall.7823:

What I’m saying is that the way WvW is right now limits you from using your skills to much…I should be able to knock people down the wall yet it doesn’t work and I have a shadowstep I should be able to port to people above…so if they take the fun out of this then add in ladders…but they didn’t do it.

And I have magic. I should be able to turn the entire opposing force into ants.

You’re stretching the metaphor too far. Which is why metaphors are generally a poor tool for argumentation.

mcl.9240:

oldthrall.7823:

What I’m saying is that the way WvW is right now limits you from using your skills to much…I should be able to knock people down the wall yet it doesn’t work and I have a shadowstep I should be able to port to people above…so if they take the fun out of this then add in ladders…but they didn’t do it.

And I have magic. I should be able to turn the entire opposing force into ants.

You’re stretching the metaphor too far. Which is why metaphors are generally a poor tool for argumentation.

I don’t think I am stretching it too far…why do we pretend we are fighting a real war in a game? if not then why not give us player names

oldthrall.7823:

mcl.9240:

oldthrall.7823:

What I’m saying is that the way WvW is right now limits you from using your skills to much…I should be able to knock people down the wall yet it doesn’t work and I have a shadowstep I should be able to port to people above…so if they take the fun out of this then add in ladders…but they didn’t do it.

And I have magic. I should be able to turn the entire opposing force into ants.

You’re stretching the metaphor too far. Which is why metaphors are generally a poor tool for argumentation.

I don’t think I am stretching it too far…why do we pretend we are fighting a real war in a game? if not then why not give us player names

Player names A) are irrelevant and put strain on servers.

ecwoodrow.7034:

oldthrall.7823:

mcl.9240:

oldthrall.7823:

What I’m saying is that the way WvW is right now limits you from using your skills to much…I should be able to knock people down the wall yet it doesn’t work and I have a shadowstep I should be able to port to people above…so if they take the fun out of this then add in ladders…but they didn’t do it.

And I have magic. I should be able to turn the entire opposing force into ants.

You’re stretching the metaphor too far. Which is why metaphors are generally a poor tool for argumentation.

I don’t think I am stretching it too far…why do we pretend we are fighting a real war in a game? if not then why not give us player names

Player names A) are irrelevant and put strain on servers.

It isn’t irrelevant. Mike Ferguson justified his reason for not showing player names because WvW was designed to mirror real war.

oldthrall.7823:

ecwoodrow.7034:

oldthrall.7823:

mcl.9240:

oldthrall.7823:

What I’m saying is that the way WvW is right now limits you from using your skills to much…I should be able to knock people down the wall yet it doesn’t work and I have a shadowstep I should be able to port to people above…so if they take the fun out of this then add in ladders…but they didn’t do it.

And I have magic. I should be able to turn the entire opposing force into ants.

You’re stretching the metaphor too far. Which is why metaphors are generally a poor tool for argumentation.

I don’t think I am stretching it too far…why do we pretend we are fighting a real war in a game? if not then why not give us player names

Player names A) are irrelevant and put strain on servers.

It isn’t irrelevant. Mike Ferguson justified his reason for not showing player names because WvW was designed to mirror real war.

And you took that far too literally. If it was truly designed to mirror real war, matches would take years, you’d almost never see the enemy, you’d be forced to eat regularly, you’d have to worry about sanitation and hygiene, you’d need much more complicated supply logistics than moving dolyaks from point A to point B, you’d have to deal with fatigue, you’d have mental and physical wounds, death would be permanent, and you’d have to spend months traveling just to reach the site of the battle.

Like I said, you’re taking what he said FAR too literally.

In a real war more people die from infections and illness than they do from direct battle. Should ANet make it so players contract trenchfoot or scurvy in prolonged sieges because it “happens in real life”? How fun would that be?

Human beings will always take the path of least resistance. If you’ve played any other MMO’s with siege mechanics, you’d see just how true this is. In Shadowbane, nobody bothered knocking down walls or gates because certain classes could buff a group to fly. An entire army would just up and fly over your useless walls and take out your defending force if it was smaller. Same thing applies here. Players would find the most optimal way to place ladders and won’t bother with anything else.

That’s not to say there aren’t concepts adapted from real life in GW2. Defending being easier than sieging is one of them. Many famous battles throughout history and fiction have been won by a smaller army defending a well entrenched stronghold. ANet has managed this by disallowing any easy way to bypass walls or gates.

I think ranged attacks should get a bonus to their range if you’re on a higher elevation. That’s something that happens IRL. Should ANet add that in too? Would it be balanced? Making changes to a game because “it happens in real life” is a slippery slope. You have to consider how such a change will impact the big picture and not just one aspect of the game.

I think hes trying to express the repetitiveness within attacking keeps.

Everyone is made to choose the front gate in order to break it down. The point hes trying to make is why couldn’t there be other options.

Examples: Ladders. Underground tunnels. Sewer Systems. Maybe even a jumping puzzle.

People… dont be dumb. When they said make it mirror war they aren’t talking about the “infections” and “diseases”. They’re talking about Tactics. Diversions, Distractions, Bait, Infiltration, MAYBE some espionage too.

Most everyone’s only thought right now, when attacking a keep, is ATTACK! RAWR! and then all rush. Defense starts to defend (duh) but there isnt much to expand on after that… What i’d like to see is OPTIONS.

1. You could join the strike force attacking the main gate.

2. You could bring supplies from a friendly base to use in battle (more portable things), like a bomb that could be set up outside keep walls in order to blow a hole in the section of the keep for a surprise ambush.

3. Preform espionage-type activites (sneaking + jumping puzzle?) and get yourself into the enemy keep, behind enemy lines, and try and open the gate for your strike force.

Its these kinds of things that set the definition for War from the definition of Massacre. Tactics, Strategy, Planning.

The saddest thing i find when i go to BGs and WvW is the lack of communication. And its really not the “anti-social gamers” fault but really the fact that theres nothing to talk about

Players in this game react like AI. Jump on the closest thing that get within your aggro (range of vision) and dps it down, theres no need for discussion. Enemy controls the keep? Rush the gate and respawn till they lose or you get bored.

But WvW is really just BGs with no given-gear and bigger maps. All the xp, karma, and items are just a bonus on top of it and dont actually hold much value when i comes down to the ACTUAL idea of what WvW is suppose to be.

I play both WvW and sPvP, but my thinking process for battles and attack strategies are usually pretty much the same through out both.

You are not forced to attack the front or main gate. The walls are destructible.

The other day, my server took back our garrison by ignoring the gate and quickly taking out a wall.

without permadeath its not war.