Guild Wars 2

If one on your team / your side goes stealth, you can already see him as a transparent silhouette. Dark Age of Camelot has a mechanic enabling you to see stealthed characters after a while.

So my suggestion is:
Create a wvw skill to enable a chance to discover stealthed enemies in the same way.
Say, you can raise your %-chance to discover people, the range, timer(s) etc.
Not breaking stealth on the discovered character, only making him targetable – and attackable, maybe only while out of fight.

Thoughts?

P.S.: L2p issue of course :p

rattenbart.7483:

Not breaking stealth on the discovered character, only making him targetable – and attackable, maybe only while out of fight.

And what exactly would be the use of stealth then? You can target and attack the stealthed target.. :-/

Tribio.8531:

rattenbart.7483:

Not breaking stealth on the discovered character, only making him targetable – and attackable, maybe only while out of fight.

And what exactly would be the use of stealth then? You can target and attack the stealthed target.. :-/

Not instantly. After “some” time the skill to detect stealthed would activate – and not at 100%.

rattenbart.7483:

Tribio.8531:

rattenbart.7483:

Not breaking stealth on the discovered character, only making him targetable – and attackable, maybe only while out of fight.

And what exactly would be the use of stealth then? You can target and attack the stealthed target.. :-/

Not instantly. After “some” time the skill to detect stealthed would activate – and not at 100%.

How about a skill that makes mesmer unable to cast clones, or one that locked out certain elements on elemetalist. How about one that makes Guardians unable to cast boons and necros unable to shroud.
Sounds crazy aye?

What exactly would this accomplish? Thieves are already limited to roaming/ganking backliners in WvW, nerfing stealth would just restrict them even further. Mesmers wouldn’t really be affected because their stealth skills last five seconds or less and have long cooldowns. Why the thief nerf?

I agree stealth is pretty poorly handled in this game. I do prefer having ways of detecting stealth targets rather than the clunky counter of “Revealed” which just hard blocks them from entering… But at this point the thief as a class is way too dependent on the stealth mechanic as it is to make sweeping changes to it without seriously rethinking the Thief class, which ANet won’t do and wouldn’t be fair to Thieves anyway.

Cufufalating.8479:

But at this point the thief as a class is way too dependent on the stealth mechanic

I beg to differ, the class mechanich for thieves is Initiative, not stealth.. You can perfectly build a no-stealth thief..

Ballads.2509:

rattenbart.7483:

Tribio.8531:

rattenbart.7483:

Not breaking stealth on the discovered character, only making him targetable – and attackable, maybe only while out of fight.

And what exactly would be the use of stealth then? You can target and attack the stealthed target.. :-/

Not instantly. After “some” time the skill to detect stealthed would activate – and not at 100%.

How about a skill that makes mesmer unable to cast clones, or one that locked out certain elements on elemetalist. How about one that makes Guardians unable to cast boons and necros unable to shroud.
Sounds crazy aye?

I want those!

Would last 30s and cost only few badges and silver from wvw npc. Amazing

Tribio.8531:

Cufufalating.8479:

But at this point the thief as a class is way too dependent on the stealth mechanic

I beg to differ, the class mechanich for thieves is Initiative, not stealth.. You can perfectly build a no-stealth thief..

Well, he didn’t really say stealth is class mechanic …

Oh hi Tribio <3

The discover stealted player skill should be like it was in KO were it worked for your Group and distance off 600 lasted for 20sec CD 15sec, give it Engineer, then Rangers, Thife have show stealthed for your self that last for 30sec CD 45sec and range 1200.

Also do so Scouts (NPC) see stealthed players and attack them.

Jayden Ennok.3687:

Ballads.2509:

rattenbart.7483:

Tribio.8531:

rattenbart.7483:

Not breaking stealth on the discovered character, only making him targetable – and attackable, maybe only while out of fight.

And what exactly would be the use of stealth then? You can target and attack the stealthed target.. :-/

Not instantly. After “some” time the skill to detect stealthed would activate – and not at 100%.

How about a skill that makes mesmer unable to cast clones, or one that locked out certain elements on elemetalist. How about one that makes Guardians unable to cast boons and necros unable to shroud.
Sounds crazy aye?

I want those!

Would last 30s and cost only few badges and silver from wvw npc. Amazing

Yep if your gonna disable 1 class we need disables for all. We also need a “disable forum whiner who just lost to a thief who was stealthed” dis-abler.

Ballads.2509:

rattenbart.7483:

Tribio.8531:

rattenbart.7483:

Not breaking stealth on the discovered character, only making him targetable – and attackable, maybe only while out of fight.

And what exactly would be the use of stealth then? You can target and attack the stealthed target.. :-/

Not instantly. After “some” time the skill to detect stealthed would activate – and not at 100%.

How about a skill that makes mesmer unable to cast clones, or one that locked out certain elements on elemetalist. How about one that makes Guardians unable to cast boons and necros unable to shroud.
Sounds crazy aye?

Blind will make a clone cast miss.
For blocks you can use unblockable skills after they start blocking.
For boons you can remove after they use them.
For condis you can remove them after they used them.

For stealth there are very few skills that prevent it and most are single target long cd skills that are just available for some classes.

xDudisx.5914:

Ballads.2509:

rattenbart.7483:

Tribio.8531:

rattenbart.7483:

Not breaking stealth on the discovered character, only making him targetable – and attackable, maybe only while out of fight.

And what exactly would be the use of stealth then? You can target and attack the stealthed target.. :-/

Not instantly. After “some” time the skill to detect stealthed would activate – and not at 100%.

How about a skill that makes mesmer unable to cast clones, or one that locked out certain elements on elemetalist. How about one that makes Guardians unable to cast boons and necros unable to shroud.
Sounds crazy aye?

Blind will make a clone cast miss.
For blocks you can use unblockable skills after they start blocking.
For boons you can remove after they use them.
For condis you can remove them after they used them.

For stealth there are very few skills that prevent it and most are single target long cd skills that are just available for some classes.

Would you not say that blind/block/evade preventing Cloak and Dagger from giving stealth is the same? Or interrupting a heartseeker through smoke?

Don’t just think about the counter once they’re in stealth, think about the counters before stealth.

Ragnar.4257:

xDudisx.5914:

Ballads.2509:

rattenbart.7483:

Tribio.8531:

rattenbart.7483:

Not breaking stealth on the discovered character, only making him targetable – and attackable, maybe only while out of fight.

And what exactly would be the use of stealth then? You can target and attack the stealthed target.. :-/

Not instantly. After “some” time the skill to detect stealthed would activate – and not at 100%.

How about a skill that makes mesmer unable to cast clones, or one that locked out certain elements on elemetalist. How about one that makes Guardians unable to cast boons and necros unable to shroud.
Sounds crazy aye?

Blind will make a clone cast miss.
For blocks you can use unblockable skills after they start blocking.
For boons you can remove after they use them.
For condis you can remove them after they used them.

For stealth there are very few skills that prevent it and most are single target long cd skills that are just available for some classes.

Would you not say that blind/block/evade preventing Cloak and Dagger from giving stealth is the same? Or interrupting a heartseeker through smoke?

Don’t just think about the counter once they’re in stealth, think about the counters before stealth.

First there are forms of stealth that require no hit to active, so block is not a solution for everything. Second you can CnD from a pet, from a minion, from a trash mobs in wvw, from guards, etc. They will not blick unless you have some aoe aegis, also they will not evade. Third CnD has a very short cast time 0.5s, same problem as the old pin down before nerf.

If you were to implement stealth-discovering mechanics that derive from other games, you would also have to implement permanent stealth “until broken by attacking” from other games. Do you really want thieves to be in stealth from the moment they step into the map to the moment they attack?

And please don’t say free perma-stealth is already a thing, because it most definitely isn’t.

Edit: In response to OP, DAoC doesn’t allow you to see friendly/enemy stealth “after a while.” It lets you see it if you are within a couple of feet, and actually facing the direction of the assassin or archer. —- Which would be ridiculous to try to implement in GW2 where a majority of the time stealth happens when you are already fighting within melee range of enemies.

Stealth is definitely poorly implemented for WvW, though it sort of works out in PvP since you tend to be aware that there’s someone stealthed and as long as they remain so their team is down a member. While I’d love a full reworking of it, I think that, realistically, a WvW specific change makes more sense, even if it was just an extended revealed state.

dont mind that if they give us 1 shot kill skill Perforate Artery like daoc since they already nerf the backstab.

I want to first say that ANY anti stealth mechanic should be a very limited and ROOTED effect (Guard on ranger shouts for example would be an interesting choice. And only if the PET could be the one to see the target…not the ranger himself) I dont feel giving an item of that kind of power would be a good idea.

What follows is my general disgust for some of whats been said so far.

“disabling thieves in particular” hmm. Alot of thieves are acting like STEALTH is there class mechanic. Last I checked it was steal. Hitting stealth isnt hte same as disabling death shroud. Or removing a mesmers clones. Or stopping a guardians virtues.

Steal is your class mechanic. If your gonna talk about nerfing class mechanics you should do it where its actually relevant.

Shade, nobody cares about steal. This isn’t a thread about nerfing a class mechanic; it’s about nerfing stealth. Whatever you want to call it, the contention is that it’s not cool right now and it would be better with some changes.

edit: rereading this, it sounds far more sassy than I intended. Please forgive that bit; I love you all~

no worries sviel haha My post was more than a little bitter itself. The issue is that many convos I see thieves defend there stealth by putting it on the same pedestal as things like death shroud. it even happened earlier in this thread. I was just calling someone out on that is all. As the two shouldnt really be used in comparison to eachother as they have different places in there classes mechanics.

There are a couple skills that apply the revealed debuff already, and they work very effectively when you time them right.

But stealth in general is not always horribly broken – it just becomes a problem with condition thieves that you can’t target most of the time while they deal damage passively. Same applies to condition mesmers.

A possible solution would be to restrict condition damage output while stealthed… but that could make a number of traits completely non-viable.

I think the bigger issue there is that they do condi damage while stealthed while also being very hard to bring down due to the tankiness that comes with a condi build and all the healing/condi removal that goes along with the stealth. If they actually could be killed in a reasonable time frame, it would be ok.

hmm ill agree with you on that sviel. Even on a longbow ranger PRE BUFF. I never thought of thieves as being particularly OP. Becuase I new "theoretically atleast’ how to pin then down and kill them (with some builds before it took LUCK as much as skill to make work)

But the stealth condi setup…infuriates me. Ive never seen a build where you can actually force a person off a point with one skill and a dodge. Not even lich is that frustrating to fight against on point (lich atleast you can actively work to counter and mitigate.)

With those bleed fields however. Not only do they NOT pop the thief out of stealth after the initial cast. Unless your running sic em. Its almost impossible to actually get the guy out of stealth enough for you to hit him with something to push him a bit unless you can bait him into going after you for real. (meaning a smart condi thief is simply gonna laugh at your bait attemtps and WAIT while rolling stealth behind a nearby wall)

The walls! That’s what gets me, really. A patient thief has nothing to worry about. There’s no waiting out the stealth or guessing when it’s going to end…you just have to clench your butt cheeks and hope their knives aren’t too sharp.

Oh look, someone attempted the create a nerf thief thread -daily. It’s in the wrong place though, no achievement points for you OP.
Nothing to see here, move along.