Guild Wars 2

World vs. World

World Ability Points have been refunded to all players who earned them. Changes were made to Arrow Cart Mastery, allowing players to reallocate their points. This is a one-time reset

Arrow Cart Mastery skills have had their range reduced to be better in balance with other siege weapons.

The WvW Ranks and Abilities tab now displays how many bonus rank-up chests a character has remaining.

Superior Siege and Omega Golem blueprints now have different icons from regular siege blueprints.

edit https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/info/news/Game-Update-Notes-June-11th-2013/first#post2192806

Tnx for the fixes anet. bonus chest thingy and icon change was a nice polish touch too.

Congrats QQ’ers, Next update will also introduce a new siege weapon called bag of rocks where players can throw at enemy invaders in front of the gate

Wierd, I just downloaded patch, logged in and have no world ability points refunded.

Hule.8794:

Wierd, I just downloaded patch, logged in and have no world ability points refunded.

Me neither. Maybe it resets when you level..

Traited range is now 2800.

Bushido.2184:

Hule.8794:

Wierd, I just downloaded patch, logged in and have no world ability points refunded.

Me neither. Maybe it resets when you level..

same here.

ColinJohanson.2394:

The reset didn’t take for some reason, we’re investigating and will push a reset fix ASAP.

Thanks very much for your patience!

Hello,

What about Retaliation damage fix in Borderlands? It was acknowledged 5-6 patches ago.

What was the range? 3400 or something?

Kincaidia.3192:

What was the range? 3400 or something?

3500 traited. 500 more than a ballista, which was anti-siege xD

Add in elevation, and you get as much range as a cata in some cases. Was moderately OP, and moderately OP meant it got used before ANYTHING else in that catagory (skirmish, D, etc)

Kincaidia.3192:

What was the range? 3400 or something?

I’d like to know what percentage the decrease in range is. I do know that the previous range almost rivaled that of the catapult.

So ballista is 3000 and arrow cart is 2800 now? With such a small margin for error they’ll need to add a range circumference ground marking when siege is being placed. But then it sounds like arrow carts still require no line of sight so still easily hid from a ballista.

Estus.1726:

Kincaidia.3192:

What was the range? 3400 or something?

I’d like to know what percentage the decrease in range is. I do know that the previous range almost rivaled that of the catapult.

It was just about 3/4 of a cata’s range (almost).

Lifewaster.5912:

Traited range is now 2800.

from 3500 that’s a 20% reduction. Ballistas reach 3000. You have aoe radius which could reach the ballista with the cart, and/or elevation for either side, but there’s human error involved too in most cases.

Savvy!

What is the radius of the AC mastery 4? I think the basic radius is 320 I’m not even sure…

yanoch.7051:

What is the radius of the AC mastery 4? I think the basic radius is 320 I’m not even sure…

You know I really wish Anet would put these kinds of things in there BEFORE we bought them so we knew what we were getting into, and whether the massive point investment was worth our it for our style of play or not.

Hmmm 2,800 sounds like a good spot. I guess we’ll have to see how it plays out. As long as ACs stop being the answer for EVERYTHING I’ll be happy.

As long as they can no longer hit the rock outside Briar and then I think it’ll be ok. Arrow carts were always meant to be close in damage, so we’ll see how it plays out from now on.

Yeah 2800 is a nice healthy go-between.

yanoch.7051:

What is the radius of the AC mastery 4? I think the basic radius is 320 I’m not even sure…

Basic radius is 360, traited AC mastery 4 radius is 540 (50% more) its huge. Allows users to take out those previously untouchable spots on inner ledge of some fort walls.

GavinGoodrich.1382:

yanoch.7051:

What is the radius of the AC mastery 4? I think the basic radius is 320 I’m not even sure…

You know I really wish Anet would put these kinds of things in there BEFORE we bought them so we knew what we were getting into, and whether the massive point investment was worth our it for our style of play or not.

And that is exactly why they are working on re-setting our traits.

Pryda.8257:

ColinJohanson.2394:

The reset didn’t take for some reason, we’re investigating and will push a reset fix ASAP.

Thanks very much for your patience!

Hello,

What about Retaliation damage fix in Borderlands? It was acknowledged 5-6 patches ago.

Ye, fix this asap. Getting bored of guild abusing this in the borderlands.

What is this I read about elevation on AC’s and Ballista’s? I thought they did not matter for those siege weapons.

I like the wxp reset, now I can put the points I wasted in one of the useless lines into AC’s now as they are still by far the best place to spend them.

Thanks for the purple superior siege, nice touch.

Bunch of people want to mash arrow cart buttons and get WXP… not sure how a reasonable person can think that dropping half a dozen arrow carts actually breaking up potentially fun fights and turning back sieges… or that people sitting all day in a tower with arrow carts just sniping creates an atmosphere of fun or fairness.

People say they want to be able to defend, but this is not the way. Arrow carts are only good structure defense because of something that (hopefully) will eventually get fixed… attacking through doors and around other corners that make the arrow cart immune.

Want real defense…. slow down door and wall destruction, add things like postern doors to towers…and if you wanna overpower something make it the Boiling Oil.

Zosk.5609:

Bunch of people want to mash arrow cart buttons and get WXP… not sure how a reasonable person can think that dropping half a dozen arrow carts actually breaking up potentially fun fights and turning back sieges… or that people sitting all day in a tower with arrow carts just sniping creates an atmosphere of fun or fairness.

People say they want to be able to defend, but this is not the way. Arrow carts are only good structure defense because of something that (hopefully) will eventually get fixed… attacking through doors and around other corners that make the arrow cart immune.

Want real defense…. slow down door and wall destruction, add things like postern doors to towers…and if you wanna overpower something make it the Boiling Oil.

I’m on Dragonbrand and this week we are fighting 2 tier 1 servers. A lot of our players look at the score and haven’t bothered to come out. There are even times during NA prime where we are outmanned. Often I’m sitting alone in a tower when a 40 man zerg rolls up. Exactly how am I supposed to defend this? Maybe I’m not and that’s the point, but it sure is fun trying to slow them down enough for help to come or turn them away.

Oil is a joke as are canons mostly. They are on the front edge so I must stand in the aoe from 40 people to operate them. Same for ballista. Catas used to help but now they can’t fire through the door so they are out. Trebs can’t hit close range so they are out too.

Without arrow carts I guess I’m supposed to jump down into the zerg and fight them all?

Arrow carts were the one deterrent to zergs for small groups. Now they are nerfing them because too many zergers complained.

I really wish they cared about WvW.

Zosk.5609:

Want real defense…. slow down door and wall destruction, add things like postern doors to towers…and if you wanna overpower something make it the Boiling Oil.

This. The effectiveness gap between players and ACs is still too large, raise the AOE cap of players to 8-10, and buff oil.

nalenb.1425:

Zosk.5609:

Bunch of people want to mash arrow cart buttons and get WXP… not sure how a reasonable person can think that dropping half a dozen arrow carts actually breaking up potentially fun fights and turning back sieges… or that people sitting all day in a tower with arrow carts just sniping creates an atmosphere of fun or fairness.

People say they want to be able to defend, but this is not the way. Arrow carts are only good structure defense because of something that (hopefully) will eventually get fixed… attacking through doors and around other corners that make the arrow cart immune.

Want real defense…. slow down door and wall destruction, add things like postern doors to towers…and if you wanna overpower something make it the Boiling Oil.

I’m on Dragonbrand and this week we are fighting 2 tier 1 servers. A lot of our players look at the score and haven’t bothered to come out. There are even times during NA prime where we are outmanned. Often I’m sitting alone in a tower when a 40 man zerg rolls up. Exactly how am I supposed to defend this? Maybe I’m not and that’s the point, but it sure is fun trying to slow them down enough for help to come or turn them away.

Oil is a joke as are canons mostly. They are on the front edge so I must stand in the aoe from 40 people to operate them. Same for ballista. Catas used to help but now they can’t fire through the door so they are out. Trebs can’t hit close range so they are out too.

Without arrow carts I guess I’m supposed to jump down into the zerg and fight them all?

Arrow carts were the one deterrent to zergs for small groups. Now they are nerfing them because too many zergers complained.

I really wish they cared about WvW.

Lol, if an arrow cart can deter a Zerg what does it do to a small groups? The common answer is leave the tower and come back later with an even bigger Zerg.

little ceasar.9254:

nalenb.1425:

Zosk.5609:

Bunch of people want to mash arrow cart buttons and get WXP… not sure how a reasonable person can think that dropping half a dozen arrow carts actually breaking up potentially fun fights and turning back sieges… or that people sitting all day in a tower with arrow carts just sniping creates an atmosphere of fun or fairness.

People say they want to be able to defend, but this is not the way. Arrow carts are only good structure defense because of something that (hopefully) will eventually get fixed… attacking through doors and around other corners that make the arrow cart immune.

Want real defense…. slow down door and wall destruction, add things like postern doors to towers…and if you wanna overpower something make it the Boiling Oil.

I’m on Dragonbrand and this week we are fighting 2 tier 1 servers. A lot of our players look at the score and haven’t bothered to come out. There are even times during NA prime where we are outmanned. Often I’m sitting alone in a tower when a 40 man zerg rolls up. Exactly how am I supposed to defend this? Maybe I’m not and that’s the point, but it sure is fun trying to slow them down enough for help to come or turn them away.

Oil is a joke as are canons mostly. They are on the front edge so I must stand in the aoe from 40 people to operate them. Same for ballista. Catas used to help but now they can’t fire through the door so they are out. Trebs can’t hit close range so they are out too.

Without arrow carts I guess I’m supposed to jump down into the zerg and fight them all?

Arrow carts were the one deterrent to zergs for small groups. Now they are nerfing them because too many zergers complained.

I really wish they cared about WvW.

Lol, if an arrow cart can deter a Zerg what does it do to a small groups? The common answer is leave the tower and come back later with an even bigger Zerg.

This guy gets it. Arrowcarts hurt zergs but they hurt small groups a lot more.

Also, I don’t think anybody complained as much about AC’s as I did and I really don’t think of myself as a zerger. They definitely did not nerf anything because of what I said or they really only read like a tenth of what I wrote and understood even less. (Granted, I did write A LOT)

Caliban.3176:

little ceasar.9254:

nalenb.1425:

Zosk.5609:

Bunch of people want to mash arrow cart buttons and get WXP… not sure how a reasonable person can think that dropping half a dozen arrow carts actually breaking up potentially fun fights and turning back sieges… or that people sitting all day in a tower with arrow carts just sniping creates an atmosphere of fun or fairness.

People say they want to be able to defend, but this is not the way. Arrow carts are only good structure defense because of something that (hopefully) will eventually get fixed… attacking through doors and around other corners that make the arrow cart immune.

Want real defense…. slow down door and wall destruction, add things like postern doors to towers…and if you wanna overpower something make it the Boiling Oil.

I’m on Dragonbrand and this week we are fighting 2 tier 1 servers. A lot of our players look at the score and haven’t bothered to come out. There are even times during NA prime where we are outmanned. Often I’m sitting alone in a tower when a 40 man zerg rolls up. Exactly how am I supposed to defend this? Maybe I’m not and that’s the point, but it sure is fun trying to slow them down enough for help to come or turn them away.

Oil is a joke as are canons mostly. They are on the front edge so I must stand in the aoe from 40 people to operate them. Same for ballista. Catas used to help but now they can’t fire through the door so they are out. Trebs can’t hit close range so they are out too.

Without arrow carts I guess I’m supposed to jump down into the zerg and fight them all?

Arrow carts were the one deterrent to zergs for small groups. Now they are nerfing them because too many zergers complained.

I really wish they cared about WvW.

Lol, if an arrow cart can deter a Zerg what does it do to a small groups? The common answer is leave the tower and come back later with an even bigger Zerg.

This guy gets it. Arrowcarts hurt zergs but they hurt small groups a lot more.

Also, I don’t think anybody complained as much about AC’s as I did and I really don’t think of myself as a zerger. They definitely did not nerf anything because of what I said or they really only read like a tenth of what I wrote and understood even less. (Granted, I did write A LOT)

So I take it people who do not like the AC buff also are not in favor of taking off the AoE cap for the same reason?

Thanks for Arenanet finally slightly nerfing the Arrowcarts, but I feel this range adjustment is not enough.

The range and damage are still way too good, considering that ACs don’t require line of sight to hit their target. No matter from where you fire the ACs the arrows seem to rain straight down from the sky (not like real projectile arrows would). You can even place ACs next to enemy wall and still use it to hit them on the wall or hit through the gates and so on. With the AC traits and increased (ridiculously huge) area their effective range rivals and is actually better than the ballista. Thus ACs are still too good and making ballistas a bit irrelevant. I am sure Arenanet can find that ACs are deployed much more often than ballistas. Ballistas projectiles are blocked so easily by the terrain and thus actually not working that well in many situations. AC is more or less the easy mode in WvWvW.

Another issue: AC traits are totally out of hand compared to other WXP traits. You simply get the best bang for buck by allocating your points to AC mastery.

little ceasar.9254:

Lol, if an arrow cart can deter a Zerg what does it do to a small groups? The common answer is leave the tower and come back later with an even bigger Zerg.

We don’t have a bigger zerg. Under the new matchups there’s so little incentive to upgrade anything. Unless we focus all our forces on one location to only defend there’s little we can do to stop the enemy from taking our locations.

Last night we had a lot of people on and we barely managed to hang onto our garrison. If ArenaNet is going to make the matches so lopsided why not let us use siege to even the odds? I don’t know how to balance it with small groups though.

nalenb.1425:

little ceasar.9254:

Lol, if an arrow cart can deter a Zerg what does it do to a small groups? The common answer is leave the tower and come back later with an even bigger Zerg.

We don’t have a bigger zerg. Under the new matchups there’s so little incentive to upgrade anything. Unless we focus all our forces on one location to only defend there’s little we can do to stop the enemy from taking our locations.

Last night we had a lot of people on and we barely managed to hang onto our garrison. If ArenaNet is going to make the matches so lopsided why not let us use siege to even the odds? I don’t know how to balance it with small groups though.

I understand your pain, that must be frustrating for you. But the old arrowcarts did a good job at evening the odds, there was no need for that buff.

I still want a golem with arrow carts for hands.

AC’s are worthless agains a golem rush now.

I agree about the range being too much but the damage is fine.

nalenb.1425:

little ceasar.9254:

Lol, if an arrow cart can deter a Zerg what does it do to a small groups? The common answer is leave the tower and come back later with an even bigger Zerg.

We don’t have a bigger zerg. Under the new matchups there’s so little incentive to upgrade anything. Unless we focus all our forces on one location to only defend there’s little we can do to stop the enemy from taking our locations.

Last night we had a lot of people on and we barely managed to hang onto our garrison. If ArenaNet is going to make the matches so lopsided why not let us use siege to even the odds? I don’t know how to balance it with small groups though.

That’s why ANet needs to get a clue and come up with a better way to make matches instead of server vs server vs server. NOTHING they do is going to offset the population inequalities of the current system, and until they fix the fundamental problem all this other crap is just smoke and mirrors.

Cactus.2710:

That’s why ANet needs to get a clue and come up with a better way to make matches instead of server vs server vs server. NOTHING they do is going to offset the population inequalities of the current system, and until they fix the fundamental problem all this other crap is just smoke and mirrors.

Exactly. I don’t even think they know what makes WvW fun for most players. I kinda wish they would take the guild leaders of the most active WvW guilds from each server and have a private conference call with them. Until they figure out why people like and play WvW they will be unable to know what fixes or enhancements people want. They can’t use these forums for that.

Deniara Devious.3948:

Thus ACs are still too good and making ballistas a bit irrelevant. I am sure Arenanet can find that ACs are deployed much more often than ballistas. Ballistas projectiles are blocked so easily by the terrain and thus actually not working that well in many situations. AC is more or less the easy mode in WvWvW.

Your argument is completely non-persuasive. Everything you said was ALREADY true before the AC trait line was released or AC damage was buffed. Does that mean that the ACs that everyone used to just stand in were OP?

Considering that I can down and have been downed by a single ballista shot, they are just fine. Imagine if ballistas fire an arching arrow that didn’t get blocked by terrain, the QQing would be a million times worse than it is with the ACs now. In fact, ANet should implement this because it would be glorious and I’m tired of people whining about ACs.

Other servers actually gasp counter ACs with players or by building counter ACs. They don’t just assume that walking up to a gate with 2 rams guarantees victory.

Caliban.3176:

nalenb.1425:

little ceasar.9254:

Lol, if an arrow cart can deter a Zerg what does it do to a small groups? The common answer is leave the tower and come back later with an even bigger Zerg.

We don’t have a bigger zerg. Under the new matchups there’s so little incentive to upgrade anything. Unless we focus all our forces on one location to only defend there’s little we can do to stop the enemy from taking our locations.

Last night we had a lot of people on and we barely managed to hang onto our garrison. If ArenaNet is going to make the matches so lopsided why not let us use siege to even the odds? I don’t know how to balance it with small groups though.

I understand your pain, that must be frustrating for you. But the old arrowcarts did a good job at evening the odds, there was no need for that buff.

Pretty much my sentiment. I am on dragonbrand as well so I understand the difficulty of the current match up. Coverage is the main issue which is out of our control. The way I see it though is there is never a shortage of people to fight which is my main draw to wvw.

Yeah the buff was not needed. Time to tone down the damage and find a way to address fov hacks and stop giving an advantage to those running 3 monitors.

Visiroth.5914:

Deniara Devious.3948:

Thus ACs are still too good and making ballistas a bit irrelevant. I am sure Arenanet can find that ACs are deployed much more often than ballistas. Ballistas projectiles are blocked so easily by the terrain and thus actually not working that well in many situations. AC is more or less the easy mode in WvWvW.

Your argument is completely non-persuasive. Everything you said was ALREADY true before the AC trait line was released or AC damage was buffed. Does that mean that the ACs that everyone used to just stand in were OP?

Considering that I can down and have been downed by a single ballista shot, they are just fine. Imagine if ballistas fire an arching arrow that didn’t get blocked by terrain, the QQing would be a million times worse than it is with the ACs now. In fact, ANet should implement this because it would be glorious and I’m tired of people whining about ACs.

Other servers actually gasp counter ACs with players or by building counter ACs. They don’t just assume that walking up to a gate with 2 rams guarantees victory.

Superior ACs were already a bit too good before the damage buff and the traits. Adding +80% damage together with the traits was just insanity. Together with the 2nd WXP trait the total damage increase is roughly +125% or about 2.25x bigger damage.
The 4th AC trait seems to increase the radius by 50%, thus giving 2.25 x larger area as well, which is way too big. Now imagine any weapon skill of the game buffed so much. Of course it would be broken.

Let me tell you a real story about ACs and “countering” them:

Our opponent Elona Reach (ER) is from EU tier #1. It is both insulting and naive to assume that they wouldn’t know about siege warfare. ER players love to use sturdy builds, generally PVT gear, more or less bunker. The wall of our tower was going down. I commanded our troops NOT to repair the wall, but build more siege inside the tower and stay inside. We were farming the enemy for hours upon hours. One can quickly gain an entire WXP rank and get so much loot that all bags get full. Enemy’s attempt to build any siege were very easily countered as we also had 1 Treb and 1 ballista built to high position. And about 5 ACs. Enemy tried all sorts of things. I had commanded our guardians to lay down lots of wards to stall the enemy. Their best attempt was portal bombing, but even then one ACs survived and the enemy got wiped again.

I would love to see you command the opposing side and try to build those counter ACs.

The bottom line is: ACs are overpowered. It is way too easy to build ACs into such location enemy has very little means to counter them. The line of sight issues had been reported countless of times in these forums. Yet Anet decided to more than quadruple the power of ACs (with WXP traits) , despite all experienced WvWvW players knew those line of sight issues had already made ACs too good. In their current state ACs have made flaming rams almost irrelevant, unless you are attacking a gate, which is undefended (then defensive siege doesn’t matter anycase). Suggesting to build “counter ACs” is not working since enemy will very easily destroy any siege the attacker tries to build with one Treb or ironically… with multiple superior ACs.

If you have been downed by a single ballista shot, your health and toughness is probably too low.

Deniara Devious.3948:

Superior ACs were already a bit too good before the damage buff and the traits. Adding +80% damage together with the traits was just insanity. Together with the 2nd WXP trait the total damage increase is roughly +125% or about 2.25x bigger damage.
The 4th AC trait seems to increase the radius by 50%, thus giving 2.25 x larger area as well, which is way too big. Now imagine any weapon skill of the game buffed so much. Of course it would be broken.

This is the source of the problem and the reason there is disagreement about the power of AC’s and whether the buff was good or bad.

Superior AC’s are the problem. Remove all superior siege from the game and you will see the complaining go away on both sides.

all i can say is;

AC was too OP, even with damage nerf

and thank you for WvW point reset. I really wanted my 5 points into AC gone in favor of 25% ballista damage

Cactus.2710:

That’s why ANet needs to get a clue and come up with a better way to make matches instead of server vs server vs server. NOTHING they do is going to offset the population inequalities of the current system, and until they fix the fundamental problem all this other crap is just smoke and mirrors.

How about having matchups based on guilds instead of servers, this is “Guild Wars” after all. Players can designate one guild as their matchup guild (in case they aren’t representing at the time) and every week all servers are brought down and ANET repopulates servers by spreading out guilds based on guild population and a guild rating based off previous results. Creating every week servers with new guilds to fight with and against and allowing ANET balance servers populations on a weekly basis. It’s obviously much more complex in implementation than this, just brainstorming here.

Caliban.3176:

little ceasar.9254:

nalenb.1425:

Zosk.5609:

Bunch of people want to mash arrow cart buttons and get WXP… not sure how a reasonable person can think that dropping half a dozen arrow carts actually breaking up potentially fun fights and turning back sieges… or that people sitting all day in a tower with arrow carts just sniping creates an atmosphere of fun or fairness.

People say they want to be able to defend, but this is not the way. Arrow carts are only good structure defense because of something that (hopefully) will eventually get fixed… attacking through doors and around other corners that make the arrow cart immune.

Want real defense…. slow down door and wall destruction, add things like postern doors to towers…and if you wanna overpower something make it the Boiling Oil.

I’m on Dragonbrand and this week we are fighting 2 tier 1 servers. A lot of our players look at the score and haven’t bothered to come out. There are even times during NA prime where we are outmanned. Often I’m sitting alone in a tower when a 40 man zerg rolls up. Exactly how am I supposed to defend this? Maybe I’m not and that’s the point, but it sure is fun trying to slow them down enough for help to come or turn them away.

Oil is a joke as are canons mostly. They are on the front edge so I must stand in the aoe from 40 people to operate them. Same for ballista. Catas used to help but now they can’t fire through the door so they are out. Trebs can’t hit close range so they are out too.

Without arrow carts I guess I’m supposed to jump down into the zerg and fight them all?

Arrow carts were the one deterrent to zergs for small groups. Now they are nerfing them because too many zergers complained.

I really wish they cared about WvW.

Lol, if an arrow cart can deter a Zerg what does it do to a small groups? The common answer is leave the tower and come back later with an even bigger Zerg.

This guy gets it. Arrowcarts hurt zergs but they hurt small groups a lot more.

Also, I don’t think anybody complained as much about AC’s as I did and I really don’t think of myself as a zerger. They definitely did not nerf anything because of what I said or they really only read like a tenth of what I wrote and understood even less. (Granted, I did write A LOT)

One other thing the AC buff has done is that it has actually displaced the zerg.

Before, it was tough, but small groups had at least a small window of opportunity to take camps and other small objectives.

Now, with towers stalemated and so hard to take, camps are now a primary zerg objective. A commander has to keep a zerg active, and since towers are such a static meat-grinder, that means camps.

One patch after another, killing the game for small groups.