Guild Wars 2

They are one and all pretty meaningless compared to scoring updates, which we have needed ever since the servers how been tier locked due to kittenty glicko.

im curious to hear some responses against the scoring vote. also, it would be nice to have both, and im guessing we will get the other at some point in time.

Because it’s a 24/7 game mode. One person’s time should not be more or less valuable than any others. It’s called standing for equality.

DeWolfe.2174:

Because it’s a 24/7 game mode. One person’s time should not be more or less valuable than any others. It’s called standing for equality.

Agreed, prime-time contributions should finally be brought in-line with nightcapping.

Because dumbing down the point system to kitten style will not make things better. Nor the flaming hate of people playing “night” when they realize that everything they do is worthless and thier fun is killed in the game.

If you want a better score… play more, get more of your server to play, organize better. You can go have you kitten mode pve don’t make our wvw stupid ez as well.

I really don’t get this change very much. I play on NA… but i play ocx/sea or EU, while being from EU. Depending on schedules. So suddenly for people get annoyed they didn’t fix up an ocx/sea or EU players….
My game style will be that of all the work you do in those timezones, it only counts 50% towards the score for instance?? That would be terrible… what motivation would there be left to fight for the server??

I mean i like the idea of efficiency points tho, so the amount of people playing average on an hour on one server compared to the other server decide a *0,??? factor on points or have some other effect on the points.

For that won’t just be nightcapping dealt with as the problem… for an efficiency point system… might actually lead to some servers with huge NA numbers to get lower points… for they don’t work that well compared to the numbers of the other server in NA time

That would be a more fair for all timezones and efficient effort is rewarded

Nope

Why?

Because getting a winning or losing score doesnt matter to me one bit. A difference of 1-3% of a buff to things isnt worth me caring about if my realm wins or loses. Not after 2 years of playing WvW.

Maybe if they made winning something I actually cared about, id be more concerned about score gaps and night capping. But since its not, they are at the bottom of my list of improvements to WvW that are needed.

Make the gameplay better, before you worry about keeping score.

LetoII.3782:

DeWolfe.2174:

Because it’s a 24/7 game mode. One person’s time should not be more or less valuable than any others. It’s called standing for equality.

Agreed, prime-time contributions should finally be brought in-line with nightcapping.

whoa whoa… you may want to reread what I posted. I’m against score manipulation as that’s promoting inequality. The score has to be flat and equal for every minute of the day. Any deviation in awarded points for time of day is creating inequality.

Night capping has been the worst player created complaint in the entire game. Again, this is a player created issue by stacking World communities around languages, Countries, and other geolocations.

They should have made it there where you could only vote if u have atleast 50hr game play in wvw. Or simular.

Murphys Law.8561:

They should have made it there where you could only vote if u have atleast 50hr game play in wvw. Or simular.

Yeah, just like in real life, I’m certain this vote is getting abused.

The QoL changes might be pretty meaningless, but the score is 100% meaningless

maybe I am not dumb enough to worry about the score every night before I goto sleep?

Agreed I’m tired of losing wars because YB can’t fight but nobody has jobs there so they K train all night. If changing the scoring system is gonna give me opponents who can fight I’m all for it.

Joan.1964:

Agreed I’m tired of losing wars because YB can’t fight but nobody has jobs there so they K train all night. If changing the scoring system is gonna give me opponents who can fight I’m all for it.

YB can’t fight? Here you go, last night:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=DcXOxUePTgA

Joan.1964:

Agreed I’m tired of losing wars because YB can’t fight but nobody has jobs there so they K train all night. If changing the scoring system is gonna give me opponents who can fight I’m all for it.

If BG were a sports team they would be droning on about how great they are at football while losing playing a basketball game.

Hopefully BG finally has a full time 2 to 1 player ratio so they can win some matches and stop the complaining.

LetoII.3782:

DeWolfe.2174:

Because it’s a 24/7 game mode. One person’s time should not be more or less valuable than any others. It’s called standing for equality.

Agreed, prime-time contributions should finally be brought in-line with nightcapping.

I agree with you also, therefore primetime contributions should give roughly somewhere between 10-20x times the points they do currently, and thats just for spamming 1 at lord NPCs and/or empty gates. Much more if you start counting actual fights.

Murphys Law.8561:

Joan.1964:

Agreed I’m tired of losing wars because YB can’t fight but nobody has jobs there so they K train all night. If changing the scoring system is gonna give me opponents who can fight I’m all for it.

YB can’t fight? Here you go, last night:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=DcXOxUePTgA

Excuse me with that video title? YB and BG both had 2v1’d JQ on Thursday. But, you go all ahead thinking you were the outcast being 2v1’d. Sure….

Voted QoL instead of scoring because I don’t want the game marginalize my contribution because I play from EU on NA server.

DeWolfe.2174:

Because it’s a 24/7 game mode. One person’s time should not be more or less valuable than any others. It’s called standing for equality.

I’m calling bull on this. Even the most hardcore of MMOs has a mechanic for this.

There are ways they can be fair and fix the unbalanced passive scoring problems. They simply need to ditch the tick.

TorquedSoul.8097:

There are ways they can be fair and fix the unbalanced passive scoring problems. They simply need to ditch the tick.

Then where is the incentive to recap anything when you are massively outnumbered? But of course, you have now moved on and never read this rebuttal, despite people typing it every time you make your suggestion ><

Scoring changes arent intented to make night players time less valuable than prime time players. At this moment a single night time player can make over 10 times the score prime time player can.

If you would get less points when there are less players ingame it would make players more equal.

Some people are really worried that they wont be able to nightcap anymore. lol. They just want to equalize scoring. Why 30 people at night is more important for win than 400 people in prime time? Right now nightcapping is winning matchups in EU, might be not the case in NA, because they have better coverage, but they dont want to punish you..

Look at 2nd graph “income evolution” for blue team:
http://mos.millenium.org/servers/view/15/380
They are ticking for 500-600 for whole night. It is impossible to come back, if you dont have nightcap force. Should EU buy NA pvd guilds? lol

If you want to know what they are planning with scoring system you should use google(might get banned if i post link, like last time). Even if scoring will not win, these changes will come later. This is the core wvw issue people have asked to fix since launch, so voting for QoL changes (which dont change anything in WvW) just to demonstrate, will not remove scoring project. It will come anyway.

Good scoring changes would bring:
- real competition between worlds
- better rewards for winning
- regular wvw seasons (which are on break till all core wvw issues are fixed, scoring is one of them)

Straegen.2938:

Joan.1964:

Agreed I’m tired of losing wars because YB can’t fight but nobody has jobs there so they K train all night. If changing the scoring system is gonna give me opponents who can fight I’m all for it.

If BG were a sports team they would be droning on about how great they are at football while losing playing a basketball game.

Hopefully BG finally has a full time 2 to 1 player ratio so they can win some matches and stop the complaining.

Mmm salty

SyIux.5794:

Why 30 people at night is more important for win than 400 people in prime time?

Because the score awarded is absolutely the same around the clock. Neither person around the time of day is awarded more or less. Right now the score scales with population perfectly well. If the enemy has 30 players, you’ll need 30 to stay even. If you have 400, the enemy will need 400. It’s always been balanced.

Also, what is “night” and what is “prime time”? Prime time last all of 4 hours. So you are saying you want your 4 hours to be worth more than the other 20 hours in a day? And, you don’t see an issue with your logic?

DeWolfe.2174:

SyIux.5794:

Why 30 people at night is more important for win than 400 people in prime time?

Because the score awarded is absolutely the same around the clock. Neither person around the time of day is awarded more or less. Right now the score scales with population perfectly well. If the enemy has 30 players, you’ll need 30 to stay even. If you have 400, the enemy will need 400. It’s always been balanced.

Also, what is “night” and what is “prime time”? Prime time last all of 4 hours. So you are saying you want your 4 hours to be worth more than the other 20 hours in a day? And, you don’t see an issue with your logic?

The score may be awarded the same around the clock, but “coverage wars” ensures that it is almost never even players. It is almost never balanced because of this.

If for those 4 hours, there’s twice as many players online than the other 20, then sure.

IMO these changes need to happen to prevent PvDooring and nightcapping deciding winners:

1. PPT for non upgraded structures is less than upgraded structures so night players will have incentive to do more than claim paper structures.
2. Points per Capture should be implemented. Papering a waypointed garrison gets you no points outside of ticks. It is an achievement that deserves more points.
3. More Points per Kill. Nothing drastic, maybe moving from 1 to 2 would be enough.

Svarty.8019:

TorquedSoul.8097:

There are ways they can be fair and fix the unbalanced passive scoring problems. They simply need to ditch the tick.

Then where is the incentive to recap anything when you are massively outnumbered? But of course, you have now moved on and never read this rebuttal, despite people typing it every time you make your suggestion ><

If you get rid of the tick you will still have a portion of the score coming from yaks which act as a contestable passive scoring element.

Did you comment in my scoring proposal thread?
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/wuv/PPT-less-Scoring-model-Fights-and-Dolyaks/
I also address how fight activity could be scored to encourage engagement in the same thread. By making the fight portion fixed to 40% of territorial control score, it forces teams to fight or give up a large block of points.

DeWolfe.2174:

Because the score awarded is absolutely the same around the clock. Neither person around the time of day is awarded more or less. Right now the score scales with population perfectly well. If the enemy has 30 players, you’ll need 30 to stay even. If you have 400, the enemy will need 400. It’s always been balanced.

And that is what has to be changed, that is exactly what has been wrong with this coring system.

It does not have to be same around the clock, actually, it is REALLY BAD IDEA to have passive tick exactly same around the clock.

As you already so nicely created example of what is wrong with current scoring – you will need 30 players to counterplay enemy when less players are around. If you have instead 30, I dunno – 5, those 30 enemy players will take everything. So, losing 25 people is huge deal when less enemies around.

But when enemy has 400 players, you need 400 too. Or you could even fight them, let’s suppose, with 375 people. It’s really more or less same result. 25 more or less will not change much.

Now as we learned from example you created, it does matter WHEN those 25 people are playing, proving that time is important factor when calculating points.

There are several things they can do to make scoring better that doesn’t include capping,

Like making kills count, I don’t know the number of times we’ve had 2 zergs close to the same size and when we meet in the open world, the opposite team runs and WP’s or runs inside a tower and waits for siege wars to begin,

Kills from Siege = no score
Kills by player = double score

They should also remove the ability to use a WP from anywhere in the map, you should have to be in a tower/keep in order to WP, (or a camp/zone owned by your server) this might actually force servers to fight it out when they meet, as it stands no matter what they do to scoring will not fix the, run and hide mentality of some servers/zergs.

I play on EU so nightcapping doesn’t really bother me, as there are always fights during the day, I know nightcapping was a problem on NA for the most part, but with server matching now, maybe we should wait until number settle down, as ruining 1 persons playing time because they play a global game at a different time from you, is not right.

Ok I Did It.2854:

Kills from Siege = no score
Kills by player = double score

They should also remove the ability to use a WP from anywhere in the map, you should have to be in a tower/keep in order to WP

ruining 1 persons playing time because they play a global game at a different time from you, is not right.

like the first one

second one might work

right now night capping is way more efficient, so what a nerf to that would do is to prevent the score from going out of control when the enemy has no one on the field.
———-
havent heard many viable arguments against scoring. mostly i hear “scoring doesnt matter”, and while you may not care, it does matter. it determines who you fight, affects morale, which in turn effects population aka bandwagoning when the going gets rough. i would like to state again that the qol changes are good too.

Because I’m afraid “Lessen the gap between winning scores and losing scores so losing teams can still recover.” is gonna mean a change for the worse. The only way I can think of to allow losing teams to recover is to reduce the value of playing in the early part of a matchup. Although they can probably come up with other, equally poor, choices.

I’m not that keen on the nightcapping bit either, on the one hand, why shouldn’t people who play at night have their contribution counted equally, on the other hand, at other times there are probably more people playing so perhaps counting their collective contribution higher is somewhat reasonable. I do however estimate a fair chance they’ll mess this one up completely.

The other 3 seem relatively meaningless.

Stand The Wall.6987:

how can you live with yourselves after voting for qol instead? they are one and all pretty meaningless compared to scoring updates, which we have needed ever since the servers how been tier locked due to kittenty glicko.

im curious to hear some responses against the scoring vote. also, it would be nice to have both, and im guessing we will get the other at some point in time.

Because the score changes is logically questionable in the first place?

Tell me, how is glicko calculated? It is calculated base on score, isn’kitten
How will glicko remain accurate if you go and tweak it into a discriminated scoring system?

So night capping impact lesser, doesn’t that give birth to the possibilities that server with night population staying in a tier that does not have night population? So, what gonna happen to those people? Go eat grass?

Next is scoring adjust to allow server to comeback. Wow, just how carebear this gonna get? Also, wouldn’t this give birth to the possibilities that server get stuck in a place they don’t belong to since they have bigger population / coverage all because you give people the possibility to make a comeback. This reminds me of the silly comeback pip in pvp season.

Do not mistaken equality as justice, what you voting for is justice and not equality. This justice is pretty twisted anyway.

Ok I Did It.2854:

They should also remove the ability to use a WP from anywhere in the map, you should have to be in a tower/keep in order to WP, (or a camp/zone owned by your server) this might actually force servers to fight it out when they meet, as it stands no matter what they do to scoring will not fix the, run and hide mentality of some servers/zergs.

That is bad idea. What that means is that you have to spend more time running into tower/keep/camp instead of using WP the moment enemy is discovered on the other side of the map.

If however you are talking about enemy using WP when they see you, this change would not have much effect as they would simply run away. You still do not get a chance to fight them, you would just be running after them, again wasting time.

Yeh, I can see how a blob of 40-60 would love the ability to keep 10-25 opponets from wp’ing. As they laugh about what bad players they ran over are. Lets not forget their high kill/death ratio while they thump their chest and brag. I can see why someone might suggest this to be implemented.

Voted for score.