There was less conditions being applied, cap of 25 stacks, siege didn’t take conditions, and less damage from conditions before resistance which came with the expansion.
Another derailing post. ^^ North Keep: One of the village residents will now flee if their home is destroyed.
“Game over man, Game Over!” – RIP Bill
As said above, plus when HoT came out Boonshare was in vogue, so Resistance was everywhere and the buffed Condi spam wasn’t noticeable. Then Boonshare gets nerfed and Epidemic is everywhere.
It used to have unlimited range and targets. People just like to blow things out of proportion. You can see the domino effect if you sift far enough through the threads how one person brought attention to it and everyone else hops on the blame train.
Was epi an issue? No. Conditions couldn’t stack to such ridiculous levels, and due to the absence of resistance, builds in general carried more condi cleanse, so there were fewer condis to spread via resistance, and they also didn’t stack as high before the target died.
And truthfully epi is still not really a problem. I think bouncing it off of lords, who can easily get dozens of stacks of each condi stacked on them, is a kitteneap, but a valid tactic. The only reason epi seems so ridiculously powerful is because of resistance, both directly and indirectly.
Directly, resistance allows ridiculous stacks of condis to be built up to spread via resistance
Indirectly, resistance conditioned a lot of players to run with fewer to no condi cleanses period. Also indirectly, resistance is part of the reason condi builds keep getting buffed each patch. As they have so little time to deal any actual damage against groups running resistance.
yes i believe the issue here is more the resistance rather than the epidemic if the person that get all the condis cant die from the then it makes sense that they will stack it seems like a better solution to make resistance like protetion a flat % decrease in condi dmg or flat out remove it from the game. Because we are at the point were resistance makes condi better than proper power burst… which is ridiculous
Well Rev and Warrior are nice epi targets, but since HoT condi is more of a thing. It wasnt used that excessively preHoT. Trailblazer and several builds allow it.
Also: So many people went to bed with wet eyes because of the so called “powercreep”. But they just couldnt handle that every class got its dps boosted. So to maintain the sustain from preHoT but still do more damage than those “powercreeps” they need to go dire/trailblazer.
true condis got better and for that reason alone without the resistance you wouldnt be able to stack so many of them and proceed into 1 shotting 5 more players its as if they never tested resistance before adding it into the game.
true condis got better and for that reason alone without the resistance you wouldnt be able to stack so many of them and proceed into 1 shotting 5 more players its as if they never tested resistance before adding it into the game.
Resistance is too involved with class balance to touch. It’s a boon that a lot of classes have access to. Nerfing resistance, a boon that a lot of classes have access to through a myriad of skills, is asking for trouble. And the devs already know that.
The problem is epidemic. It’s far more healthier and less catastrophic to fix the real reason people die to condis in 1 or 2 ticks, which is epidemic.
true condis got better and for that reason alone without the resistance you wouldnt be able to stack so many of them and proceed into 1 shotting 5 more players its as if they never tested resistance before adding it into the game.
Resistance is too involved with class balance to touch. It’s a boon that a lot of classes have access to. Nerfing resistance, a boon that a lot of classes have access to through a myriad of skills, is asking for trouble. And the devs already know that.
The problem is epidemic. It’s far more healthier and less catastrophic to fix the real reason people die to condis in 1 or 2 ticks, which is epidemic.
not really because after epidemic w/e else they release if it can stack many condis it will create the same problem again and tbh there arent so.many classes that have resistance. And in they end they dont need tk remove it just change it so its not total protection but a 20 to 30% condi dmg redction thats the way it should have been.
Before the resistance and HoT the metagame was entirely different. Players weren’t so tanky as they are now and full zerker necromancers and elementalists were the meta. The ranged damage spike was so powerful that using something like epidemic just wasnt worth it.
it is the pve condition spam design that is to much in WvW(since classes are deigned to carry the players with damage output), epidemic is fine….
Epidemic is taking the blame due lack of balance…. and lack of healthy combat.
Theres to much aoe and damage ouput and it isnt that hard to ovrestack it on targets.
light fields and resistance existe to try to counter what might be broken when overstanking, it is the excuse that Anet added to avoid headaches since they dont have no one to balance the game in a healthy way…
1st April joke, when gw2 receives a “balance” update.
it is the pve condition spam design that is to much in WvW(since classes are deigned to carry the players with damage output), epidemic is fine….
Epidemic is taking the blame due lack of balance…. and lack of healthy combat.
Theres to much aoe and damage ouput and it isnt that hard to ovrestack it on targets.
imho the issue is resistance the boon is so powerful that it can easily be exploided and used against the user.
it is the pve condition spam design that is to much in WvW(since classes are deigned to carry the players with damage output), epidemic is fine….
Epidemic is taking the blame due lack of balance…. and lack of healthy combat.
Theres to much aoe and damage ouput and it isnt that hard to ovrestack it on targets.
ahh so there werent so many condo focushed builds huh
Forget it, seems like Anet doesnt care at all. Havent seen any reply by them to ANY of those problems. And I like GW2 because WvW is pretty unique here. Meh, other games got the same PvP arena scheme. WoW got better PvE but I still enjoy it here. But WvW… they could make this game so special.
it is the pve condition spam design that is to much in WvW(since classes are deigned to carry the players with damage output), epidemic is fine….
Epidemic is taking the blame due lack of balance…. and lack of healthy combat.
Theres to much aoe and damage ouput and it isnt that hard to ovrestack it on targets.
ahh so there werent so many condo focushed builds huh
i never understand what u ment when u type something.. o_O sorry sometimes i lack of english understanding…not my main language.
Offcourse they were always there, and they have become easier to play/achieve good results, i really didnt get your question..!
1st April joke, when gw2 receives a “balance” update.
it is the pve condition spam design that is to much in WvW(since classes are deigned to carry the players with damage output), epidemic is fine….
Epidemic is taking the blame due lack of balance…. and lack of healthy combat.
Theres to much aoe and damage ouput and it isnt that hard to ovrestack it on targets.
ahh so there werent so many condo focushed builds huh
After Glamour confusion mesmer nerf there were no condition builds until HOT release. Shout warhorn warrior was also meta, which took care of many condies.
Now everything is spaming condies and even if you have no condi damage there is always epidemic.
true condis got better and for that reason alone without the resistance you wouldnt be able to stack so many of them and proceed into 1 shotting 5 more players its as if they never tested resistance before adding it into the game.
Resistance is too involved with class balance to touch. It’s a boon that a lot of classes have access to. Nerfing resistance, a boon that a lot of classes have access to through a myriad of skills, is asking for trouble. And the devs already know that.
The problem is epidemic. It’s far more healthier and less catastrophic to fix the real reason people die to condis in 1 or 2 ticks, which is epidemic.
Now that just isn’t true. Only 4 classes have access to Resistance without relying on RNG.
epidemic was a excellent skill on GW1… cause conditons were well designed… just saying… and players needed to have decent teamwork to play a condi nuke
Epidemic still works in the same way, its the conditions mechanics that is broken for pve reasons.
1st April joke, when gw2 receives a “balance” update.
epidemic was a excellent skill on GW1… cause conditons were well designed… just saying… and players needed to have decent teamwork to play a condi nuke
Epidemic still works in the same way, its the conditions mechanics that is broken for pve reasons.
epidemic was a excellent skill on GW1… cause conditons were well designed… just saying… and players needed to have decent teamwork to play a condi nuke
Epidemic still works in the same way, its the conditions mechanics that is broken for pve reasons.
GW1 had LOTS of condi spreading skills, still was f*** balanced, and required good team work to be efective and decent team with comunication to cleanse.
1st April joke, when gw2 receives a “balance” update.
Prior to the changes listed above it was very difficult to load up targets with enough conditions to bomb a group. Either the target died of condi before Epi fired or it never got that far.
Once players discovered it, guild groups started building around it. After the news got out, the meta changed and Epi is everywhere. I get hammered with it constantly now. Because of the craptastic combat log, it is difficult to know when it is the skill that kills a player so it often goes under reported.
At any rate, no single skill should spike damage high enough to flatten five players. Much less by using damage over time effects. The fixes are pretty easy. Remove it or cap how many conditions it can transfer. Even limiting it to five makes it potent.
Sarcasm For Hire [SFH]
“Youre lips are movin and youre complaining about something thats wingeing.”
+10 cd
only 5 stacks max (mby + remaining time -50% or something)
shorter range (cast and effect range!) + 1 sec cast time
there u have it a not op skill and not a dead skill WOW
its better to remove it than do all these not only it will be come useless with all these nerfs but it will also be so bad ppl will make it a meme and laugh about it for years
HOT is released in Oct
Epi 25 stack limit is set in July
So, was there any issue during that 3 months? None at all. Why? HOT related contents weren’t available. That is to say condition wasn’t that powerful because there weren’t major attempt to boost conditions and we still had our old anti-conditions balance. When HOT came, things changes. A great amount of attempt to boost conditions arrive with those gears/traits/stuffs and that include nerfing of anti-conditions food and runes. Then boonshare is derived, perma resistance, counter all conditions. Well, it is nerfed and now here we are.
Edit: For those who are new, anet did mention of wanting to boost conditions to make it feasible for WvW back then.
+10 cd
only 5 stacks max (mby + remaining time -50% or something)
shorter range (cast and effect range!) + 1 sec cast time
there u have it a not op skill and not a dead skill WOW
its better to remove it than do all these not only it will be come useless with all these nerfs but it will also be so bad ppl will make it a meme and laugh about it for years
even with the changes it would be the best utility skill in the game y mby the cast time is a bit to hard
+10 cd
only 5 stacks max (mby + remaining time -50% or something)
shorter range (cast and effect range!) + 1 sec cast time
there u have it a not op skill and not a dead skill WOW
its better to remove it than do all these not only it will be come useless with all these nerfs but it will also be so bad ppl will make it a meme and laugh about it for years
even with the changes it would be the best utility skill in the game y mby the cast time is a bit to hard
Those nerfs are too hard. Anything below a 10 stack limit per condi is too low for the skill considering its purpose.
+10 cd
only 5 stacks max (mby + remaining time -50% or something)
shorter range (cast and effect range!) + 1 sec cast time
there u have it a not op skill and not a dead skill WOW
its better to remove it than do all these not only it will be come useless with all these nerfs but it will also be so bad ppl will make it a meme and laugh about it for years
even with the changes it would be the best utility skill in the game y mby the cast time is a bit to hard
Those nerfs are too hard. Anything below a 10 stack limit per condi is too low for the skill considering its purpose.
are u guys srs? look every other utility skill in game there is nothing as strong as this skill even with my changes
+10 cd
only 5 stacks max (mby + remaining time -50% or something)
shorter range (cast and effect range!) + 1 sec cast time
there u have it a not op skill and not a dead skill WOW
its better to remove it than do all these not only it will be come useless with all these nerfs but it will also be so bad ppl will make it a meme and laugh about it for years
even with the changes it would be the best utility skill in the game y mby the cast time is a bit to hard
Those nerfs are too hard. Anything below a 10 stack limit per condi is too low for the skill considering its purpose.
are u guys srs? look every other utility skill in game there is nothing as strong as this skill even with my changes
but this skill is meant to punish ppl that dont cleanse co ditions
+10 cd
only 5 stacks max (mby + remaining time -50% or something)
shorter range (cast and effect range!) + 1 sec cast time
there u have it a not op skill and not a dead skill WOW
its better to remove it than do all these not only it will be come useless with all these nerfs but it will also be so bad ppl will make it a meme and laugh about it for years
even with the changes it would be the best utility skill in the game y mby the cast time is a bit to hard
Those nerfs are too hard. Anything below a 10 stack limit per condi is too low for the skill considering its purpose.
are u guys srs? look every other utility skill in game there is nothing as strong as this skill even with my changes
but this skill is meant to punish ppl that dont cleanse co ditions
How long do you think whole epidemic bomb lasts?
You can set it up in 2 seconds… GL using 10 condi cleanses in that time. On a 15s cooldown.
if u get 10 stacks of every condition with only 1200 condi dmg u get exactly 7109 dmg/tick
this is not punishing ppl this is just a 1 klick kill button
+10 cd
only 5 stacks max (mby + remaining time -50% or something)
shorter range (cast and effect range!) + 1 sec cast time
there u have it a not op skill and not a dead skill WOW
its better to remove it than do all these not only it will be come useless with all these nerfs but it will also be so bad ppl will make it a meme and laugh about it for years
even with the changes it would be the best utility skill in the game y mby the cast time is a bit to hard
Those nerfs are too hard. Anything below a 10 stack limit per condi is too low for the skill considering its purpose.
are u guys srs? look every other utility skill in game there is nothing as strong as this skill even with my changes
Epidemic takes a lot work to setup, and can be completely nullified by proper cleanses beforehand by the other team. I don’t think 10 stacks of each if your group took the time to set it up, and the other group didn’t cleanse at all, is too much. Besides, if Resistance wasn’t a thing (which it shouldn’t be), no one would even get to 10 stacks of every condition to spread in the first place.
I just want a strong tell on the gdman thing is that so hard to ask, the little hand up and down motion is not okay, maybe if the smoke effect hit you first then applied the spread, just so you can be like oh kitten dodge. That’s it if not that than just a CD increase.
[Snky] FC don’t worry I’m just a scrub until I’m OP
+10 cd
only 5 stacks max (mby + remaining time -50% or something)
shorter range (cast and effect range!) + 1 sec cast time
there u have it a not op skill and not a dead skill WOW
Your personal l2p issues isn’t good reason to make skill totally useless.
sry if i hit ur nekro feelings with that nerf suggestion.
But as i sad it will not be useless just as strong mby stronger as the rest of the other utility skills in game.
back to tropic:
its not that hard to set up everyone in ur grp just spam heavy condi skills the right order then use epi on a drawing rev or a class with less condi remove like warri and there u have it 2-5 safe kills. Was this hard to set up? I personally dont think so.
Epidemic takes a lot work to setup, and can be completely nullified by proper cleanses beforehand by the other team. I don’t think 10 stacks of each if your group took the time to set it up, and the other group didn’t cleanse at all, is too much. Besides, if Resistance wasn’t a thing (which it shouldn’t be), no one would even get to 10 stacks of every condition to spread in the first place.
Epi has become a sniper shot. Players just wait until a Resistance Warrior, a piece of siege, etc gets loaded then press button and win. With multiple Necros now running it, it has become an echo chamber. Add to the fact that it is on a 13.5s timer so it is effectively spamable.
There might have been a time way back when it took “a lot of work to setup”. Those days are gone.
Sarcasm For Hire [SFH]
“Youre lips are movin and youre complaining about something thats wingeing.”
dont think its epi’s fault when you can stack alone like 40 bleeds :/ make a cap for conditions or make a soft cap and have dr for the stacks after said cap.
+10 cd
only 5 stacks max (mby + remaining time -50% or something)
shorter range (cast and effect range!) + 1 sec cast time
there u have it a not op skill and not a dead skill WOW
Your personal l2p issues isn’t good reason to make skill totally useless.
I was an epi hater till running with a solid guild lately. I even ran guard and was getting epi’d every 5 seconds I’d say. Run the proper skills and builds and it’s actually not that bad.
With L2P issue argument but can see the argument to increase the cooldown time.
Prior to the changes listed above it was very difficult to load up targets with enough conditions to bomb a group. Either the target died of condi before Epi fired or it never got that far.
Once players discovered it, guild groups started building around it. After the news got out, the meta changed and Epi is everywhere. I get hammered with it constantly now. Because of the craptastic combat log, it is difficult to know when it is the skill that kills a player so it often goes under reported.
At any rate, no single skill should spike damage high enough to flatten five players. Much less by using damage over time effects. The fixes are pretty easy. Remove it or cap how many conditions it can transfer. Even limiting it to five makes it potent.
This reads like Epidemic changed the meta, and not that the meta forced condi groups. I ran with small man glass teams pre-HoT. You had a lot of 10ish man groups like AoN that glass bombed into zergs, but HoT killed that playstyle.
The balance of Mitigation vs Power damage and the risk:reward for both sides of that equation were ruined with HoT. So, now those small man groups turned to what the meta made itself more vulnerable to: small man condi teams. The impact was huge on larger groups, and now entire zergs build around using it.
I take issue with implying Epidemic changed the meta because I have talked to many of the small man people who switch from Glass->Condi with HoT, and they don’t enjoy it. Many of those small man squads that spread the condi meta to larger groups switched because it was the only viable way to play outnumbered, but they 100% dream of the Pre-hot day when power bombing was viable.
Epi evolved because of several changes.
Change to stability, static field affecting only 10 and resistence made dropping a well bomb practically useless.
So Necros traded in wells for corrupt boon and epidemic.
I specifically remember during the 1st year of wvw my driver asking me to try out epidemic during a few raids. It was pretty “epic” alright even in the power age. So we were using it with great results, got two more necros and it became part of our core utility skills. So it is nothing new.
HoT amplified condition damage so of course everyone is going to run it, just another cheesy advantage but it is manageable with the right players/builds/utilities.
WvW is an adapt or perish game mode. Has always been so this is what we’re given so adapt.
+10 cd
only 5 stacks max (mby + remaining time -50% or something)
shorter range (cast and effect range!) + 1 sec cast time
there u have it a not op skill and not a dead skill WOW
Your personal l2p issues isn’t good reason to make skill totally useless.
I was an epi hater till running with a solid guild lately. I even ran guard and was getting epi’d every 5 seconds I’d say. Run the proper skills and builds and it’s actually not that bad.
With L2P issue argument but can see the argument to increase the cooldown time.
U funny guys and ur L2P srsly dudes u dont know me. I have a condi nekro too i know how to play that if i want some fun i use it too.
I used allmost every owerpowerd kitten this game like low level attribut stacking. Runes, Skill BF with no internal cd. … list is long and everything i sad is op got kittening nerfed some to late but it got nerfed. This kitten skill is kittening op and it will get nerfed ull see boys.
And u guys who only can write L2P watch the f… GVG turnamen ok after that switch to every class in game read all utility skills there are and post just a singe one that is as powerfull as epi even after my personal nerf thanks.
This is a video of a full condition Comp in a GvG back in the day, 15v15 and 2 groups were dedicated condi-bomb groups with epidemic. Other group was power.
Conditions would just fall off the enemy because there were so many condition cleanse going around. People aren’t clearing conditions as much anymore because of resistance.
(well sort of, not really, no)