Guild Wars 2

The Outnumbered “Buff”, and I use the term buff loosely here, just seems like a troll joke.

It says:
The enemies greatly outnumber your forces, be careful out there!
+20% Magic find
+33% Experience
+10% World Experience
Take no Armor damage on death

Now someone try and explain this one to me. You only get drops and exp if you kill people and take stuff. If you are outnumbered what good is a buff towards stuff you wont get because you just dont have enough players to actually do anything that would reward you with exp and drops. Wouldnt it make more sense to grant a severely outnumbered side something like the Tenacity buff from WoW?

Im pretty sure having more damage output and less damage taken would help you a lot more than some MF and EXP.

I personally like to roam and try new Builds with the Outnumbered Buff. This Way i do not have to pay Armor repair. Thats all…

Dabrixmgp.4758:

The Outnumbered “Buff”, and I use the term buff loosely here, just seems like a troll joke.

It says:
The enemies greatly outnumber your forces, be careful out there!
+20% Magic find
+33% Experience
+10% World Experience
Take no Armor damage on death

Now someone try and explain this one to me. You only get drops and exp if you kill people and take stuff. If you are outnumbered what good is a buff towards stuff you wont get because you just dont have enough players to actually do anything that would reward you with exp and drops. Wouldnt it make more sense to grant a severely outnumbered side something like the Tenacity buff from WoW?

Im pretty sure having more damage output and less damage taken would help you a lot more than some MF and EXP.

Yeah, no fun getting ganked, I saw this buff a week or so ago when I entered one of the maps and though oh cool! then proceeded to die every couple minuets being chased down by enemy, I eventually gave up and went to EB and joined a zerg to get a little retaliation in.

It gives people an incentive to participate when they know they are likely to get killed frequently. Our guild sometimes takes advantage of it.

Yeah, more of a buff would be nice, as would it be if they also added a swiftness boost for all the running back from spawn.

As an EBay WvW regular, the only benefit it gives, and the one that makes be happy every single day (because we are outnumbered every single day), is that we pay no repair costs no matter how we die. It makes WvW actually fun because there is no penalty for death.

It doesn’t actually make up for the fact that certain servers have been seeing continual losses since the end of the last season as whole guilds bandwagon their kitten right on over to the big servers.. but it helps take some of the sting out of it.

I know going into WvW that I am going to die. At least I don’t have to lose money doing it.

Also, when you are debating trying to take that supply camp back, and no one else is on the map to help you, knowing you can go for it even though you’re likely to get rolled by the Vet CC and ogres/dredge/hyleks is kind of nice.

Outnumbered improves rewards, not fighting ability…

It’s probably meant to attract people to the zone to take advantage of it. But when you get enough people, it vanishes. So there’s no reason to stick in the zone anymore.
I sort of wonder what the point is.

A small or moderate % bonus to max health or all stats or something would probably be the way to go…

Outnumbered = “Free Death”

Tryble.6819:

Outnumbered improves rewards, not fighting ability…

It’s probably meant to attract people to the zone to take advantage of it. But when you get enough people, it vanishes. So there’s no reason to stick in the zone anymore.
I sort of wonder what the point is.

A small or moderate % bonus to max health or all stats or something would probably be the way to go…

I wouldn’t like it. It would just give me an advantage over other roamers that I came across. And I don’t want to win fights simply because of a statistical advantage provided to me because I happen to be on a map where I have outnumbered.

“outnumbered” buff should make all siege skills 20% faster and building siege takes half of supplies.

thats is the only way make it playable.

Outnumbered buff should contribute to a temporary lowering of transfer costs to the server during that time.

The outnumbered buff is pointless imo, who thinks about having extra MF when you get killed right outside spawn.

I don’t agree that it should give stat advantage to players, I want fair fights with other roamers.

Instead, outnumbered should somewhat negate the effects of having less people, ie:

increase sup carrying capacity – takes few seconds for a zerg to build siege, the outnumbered “zerg” of 1-3 people takes several minutes to do the same.

buff siege – either faster skills or higher dmg, pvding often takes gate down faster than 2 rams

I think the main problem comes from having no incentive (except personal preference) to play in small group instead of a zerg. Same loot/xp but a lot faster and safer.

Even when outnumbered, individual/small group has a chance against other several people, but not against a zerg, that usually equals to death in 0.034s.

Repairing costs next to nothing anyway…that is a poor incentive.

so… what you’re saying is, “give us the ability to kill a zerg with a handful of people”?

that means winning with 10 against 30? sounds stupid, doesnt it?

now don’t tell me you don’t mean it like that. because if you the buffs aren’t strong enough for you to win such a fight, it’ll have the exact same result as now: you’ll get killed.

If you’d buff the outnumbered buff more, people will start complaining about teammates joining wvw, especially newbies and afk. I can already people shouting “You’re taking away my exp and stealing my repair gold!”… with additional buffs it’d be “we could have won that 10v30 fight if you were not standing afk in our base, removing our outnumbered buff!”

Stats are useless yea but the outmanned buff may give an indication whenever a big blob hits the map to rush “hey guys outmanned buff, looks like Abbadon Mouth’s train hit the map!”

It’s a sign that anet have so graciously given us to inform you that you are not in a high population wvw server, and so you should buy more gems to transfer to a higher tier server so you dont get that “buff”.

Pretty straight forward to me.

This has been pointed out over and over again over the past year.

Aside from the free deaths the buff is pointless.

Jayden Ennok.3687:

I think the main problem comes from having no incentive (except personal preference) to play in small group instead of a zerg. Same loot/xp but a lot faster and safer.

There are already incentives to play small group, its just not something that incentivises you as you reference loot, xp and safety as being important.

If however you are looking for more lag free fights, running non zerg builds and having a greater responsibility on the outcome of engagements(generalisations, but you get the point)….you would be small scalling already.

Personal preference is enough.

Outnumbered should remove the AoE cap. At least then 10-12 people might stand a chance against 40 man zergs.

I love the outnumbered buff. I take an uplevel with my friends and clear sentries and camps to level up

I think they wanted to encourage players to leave the legendaries but it doesn’t work in many tiers. Outnumbered usually means one of two things frequently… not enough people from any side to find a decent fight or too many people on one or more sides to find a decent fight. Even when a player does manage to find a decent fight often a zerg isn’t far behind. Even flipping camps becomes sport for heavy populated servers.

Sevenn.3085:

Jayden Ennok.3687:

I think the main problem comes from having no incentive (except personal preference) to play in small group instead of a zerg. Same loot/xp but a lot faster and safer.

There are already incentives to play small group, its just not something that incentivises you as you reference loot, xp and safety as being important.

If however you are looking for more lag free fights, running non zerg builds and having a greater responsibility on the outcome of engagements(generalisations, but you get the point)….you would be small scalling already.

Personal preference is enough.

I didn’t say xp/loot/safety is important to me anywhere in that sentence. It is certainly important to a lot of people, otherwise zergs wouldn’t be so popular.

Even funnier what you wrote considering we did roam together few times with BaN on Vabbi.

A decent buff if your karma training and trying to level your uplevel, but good luck finding a map with that buff if it’s known a karma train is going on.

in the lower tiers it serves as a pretty good warning that a bunch of people just zoned in to your map

cuz like… low tier servers generally only support 1-2 large groups at once in NA prime… so getting outmanned on home bl means get ready for a large attack

It’s not actually a penalty-free death as your killer earns points for his or her realm by finishing you. Getting killed helps the other team win, so even if you don’t have to pay armour repair fees, it’s better to try and avoid dying, buff or no.

Dabrixmgp.4758:

Outnumbered should remove the AoE cap. At least then 10-12 people might stand a chance against 40 man zergs.

And when u suddently have 14 people and lose the buff you’ll get completely wrecked. Sure. Time to blame the ranger who just joined! “Get off the server. We were doing fine until u came!”
And why the heck should 10-12 people be a stronger group than 40? In which universe would this be balanced?

I think folks in an Outmanned map should be able to have a couple of minutes of Righteous Indignation to call upon when the enemy zerg pounces on them for a wipe.

A lot of good ideas in this thread. Faster siege and increase sup carrying capacity should get a special attention from ANet.

Always thought it should give the out numbered side/sides a foot hold on maps. Like flipping their keep or garrison – depending on the map & making righteous indignation on the lord longer so other sides cannot just follow one another around flipping the keep/garrison every five minutes or so.
The buff as it now is only beneficial for not having to spend sums of money repairing armor after being stomped by a large enemy group, kitten bound on not letting you back on any map.
Reason for this is because often one side is vastly superior in numbers & coverage. When in this scenario the maps are normally one color for the majority of the week because any side trying to gain ground are blown straight off the maps and lose their desire try & compete. While this does not solve mismatches by any means it might give an incentive to keep other servers interested in the round.

Outnumbered is fun. No armor repair and when you do get that one rabbit-er or person that wants a solo fight, you know you can get some sweet stuff if you’re good enough at playing. Not to mention yak sniping and camp flipping, etc.

i love it and seek it out on some nights.

most people here assume that only because you have “outmanned” it means you’re on the losing side. this is not even often the case. most of the time there’s a jumping zerg on your side, which just capped the entire map and hops over to a different map, leaving randoms on the map with the “outmanned” buff. you own the entire map, yet the enemy on this map is stronger.

beeing able to build up defensive siege faster & defending it more efficiently with an outmanned buff will make the comeback of the enemy fraction on his map more difficult and the need for this buff more than often crucial for own defenses. This will promotes flaming.

It’s fine. The Magic find and XP boosts are a bit irrelevant to WvW – I wouldn’t miss them if they went. The free repair is nice but the main value is to give an indication of when enemy zergs come and go.

The only changes I would make would be to make it a bit more sensitive – you seem to need a huge discrepancy to trigger it.

for me, Outnumbered tells me two things:

1. an enemy zerg is on this map: roamers be careful, defenders man your siege
2. deaths will be free (no repair costs)

death is still something to avoid, of course. there’s no reason to give the enemy rewards if you don’t have to (not to mention the inconvenience of losing your stacks).

the other features of Outnumbered are meaningless.

-ken

Whatever outmanned is (right now I think of it as a bit of extra reward for being a hero), it shouldn’t be something that wins fights for you.

pza.8024:

And why the heck should 10-12 people be a stronger group than 40? In which universe would this be balanced?

why should 40 unskilled mouth breathers beat 10-12 skilled people? Have been in plenty of fights where our small 12-15 man group has won against twice as many enemies. 3:1 we can hold our own pretty well but eventually they wipe us. We only end up losing because for every 1 we kill 2 more join the fight and eventually we just cant keep up.

yanniell.1236:

Faster siege and increase sup carrying capacity should get a special attention from ANet.

Also how about reduced supply requirements. When you dont own anything on the map its really hard to get enough supply to make siege to take stuff. Then once you do you cant even add defenses because of the lack of supply.

Snowreap.5174:

for me, Outnumbered tells me two things:

1. an enemy zerg is on this map: roamers be careful, defenders man your siege
2. deaths will be free (no repair costs)

death is still something to avoid, of course. there’s no reason to give the enemy rewards if you don’t have to (not to mention the inconvenience of losing your stacks).

the other features of Outnumbered are meaningless.

-ken

Exactly this. It isn’t there to even the playing field but to help track enemy activity and organise against it. Ideally you wont see the buff for very long if your world is active and coordinated in WvW, and if you do see it often then ANY benefit you could get from it is worthless.

Dabrixmgp.4758:

why should 40 unskilled mouth breathers beat 10-12 skilled people? Have been in plenty of fights where our small 12-15 man group has won against twice as many enemies. 3:1 we can hold our own pretty well but eventually they wipe us. We only end up losing because for every 1 we kill 2 more join the fight and eventually we just cant keep up.

How many bad or average players do you think a certain number of good players should be able to defeat? How many do you think they can defeat now? Assuming the second number is less than the first, can you provide any reasoning for why it is too low? Can you provide any explanation for how your first number is not arbitrary?

^this.

pza.8024:

pza.8024:

And why the heck should 10-12 people be a stronger group than 40? In which universe would this be balanced?

why should 40 unskilled mouth breathers beat 10-12 skilled people? Have been in plenty of fights where our small 12-15 man group has won against twice as many enemies. 3:1 we can hold our own pretty well but eventually they wipe us. We only end up losing because for every 1 we kill 2 more join the fight and eventually we just cant keep up.

Yeah i suppose, you’re at least twice as good as any other player. every zerg of 40 people are just noobs compared to thy.

pza.8024:

^this.

pza.8024:

pza.8024:

And why the heck should 10-12 people be a stronger group than 40? In which universe would this be balanced?

why should 40 unskilled mouth breathers beat 10-12 skilled people? Have been in plenty of fights where our small 12-15 man group has won against twice as many enemies. 3:1 we can hold our own pretty well but eventually they wipe us. We only end up losing because for every 1 we kill 2 more join the fight and eventually we just cant keep up.

Yeah i suppose, you’re at least twice as good as any other player. every zerg of 40 people are just noobs compared to thy.

it just seems like WvW is about who has more numbers on the map and not who has the better players.

go play spvp?

wvw was never thought to be an even battle. it’s enough that you can beat a group of 30 players with your 15 players.

just imagine a team in spvp would QQ becuase they can’t win a 2v5.

Dabrixmgp.4758:

pza.8024:

^this.

pza.8024:

pza.8024:

And why the heck should 10-12 people be a stronger group than 40? In which universe would this be balanced?

why should 40 unskilled mouth breathers beat 10-12 skilled people? Have been in plenty of fights where our small 12-15 man group has won against twice as many enemies. 3:1 we can hold our own pretty well but eventually they wipe us. We only end up losing because for every 1 we kill 2 more join the fight and eventually we just cant keep up.

Yeah i suppose, you’re at least twice as good as any other player. every zerg of 40 people are just noobs compared to thy.

it just seems like WvW is about who has more numbers on the map and not who has the better players.

WvW is all about coverage if you fight the PPT war. My server can hold our own and more during our prime playing times. But we lost the PPT battle overnight and during the early day due to we have pretty much zero NA overnight and morning coverage. Sleep and work keep getting the way!!

Cantur Soulfyre.5409:

Dabrixmgp.4758:

pza.8024:

^this.

pza.8024:

pza.8024:

And why the heck should 10-12 people be a stronger group than 40? In which universe would this be balanced?

why should 40 unskilled mouth breathers beat 10-12 skilled people? Have been in plenty of fights where our small 12-15 man group has won against twice as many enemies. 3:1 we can hold our own pretty well but eventually they wipe us. We only end up losing because for every 1 we kill 2 more join the fight and eventually we just cant keep up.

Yeah i suppose, you’re at least twice as good as any other player. every zerg of 40 people are just noobs compared to thy.

it just seems like WvW is about who has more numbers on the map and not who has the better players.

WvW is all about coverage if you fight the PPT war. My server can hold our own and more during our prime playing times. But we lost the PPT battle overnight and during the early day due to we have pretty much zero NA overnight and morning coverage. Sleep and work keep getting the way!!

nerf sleep and work

I tried nerfing my hours at work but they wanted to nerf my salary too.

Serezenith.3501:

It’s not actually a penalty-free death as your killer earns points for his or her realm by finishing you. Getting killed helps the other team win, so even if you don’t have to pay armour repair fees, it’s better to try and avoid dying, buff or no.

This is a really good point. If one aspect of the buff is to eliminate disincentives to playing when out manned, this seems like a good one to add.

I’d love to see ‘Player doesn’t drop loot bags when killed’ added as well’…

kaltastic.3146:

I’d love to see ‘Player doesn’t drop loot bags when killed’ added as well’…

This would be awesome. GREAT idea.

A good guild of 25 with outnumbered buff can turn the biggest of blobs into farm heaven… sounds like you need a 25 man guilds to run with to experience this.

they should have just switched the outmanned and orb buffs originally, and been done with it a year ago. it just makes so much more sense that way. the bigger server will already have the advantage, it doesn’t need the stat boosts. the gold, karma and xp gain would be much better balanced reward for their efforts. the outmanned server is at the disadvantage in fights. it doesn’t need gold, xp, and karma boosts if they’re just getting swarmed. the stat boosts would at least give them something to counter the numbers. the results would be better fights, and better matches.

they didn’t need to change much about it at all. just make 3 levels of outmanned, and have the karma, xp, and gold boosts set at 10%, 20% and 30%, and they could have called that chapter done and over with. the problem would have been solved, and entirely avoiding a lot of the problems that stemmed from just that one screw up.

Cantur Soulfyre.5409:

kaltastic.3146:

I’d love to see ‘Player doesn’t drop loot bags when killed’ added as well’…

This would be awesome. GREAT idea.

this sounds good at first, but when your opponents realize that they’re not getting bags, they are going to figure out that it must be due to outnumbered, and they’re going to call their friends to come sweep your map.

telling your opponents which map your own players aren’t on, isn’t a good idea. this is why players lobbied so long to have the outmanned buff made invisible to your opponents.

-ken

Well, most likely they would be sweeping the map anyways if they outnumber you that bad.

I really think it is a kitten ed if you , kitten ed if you don’t kind of thing. Does it make sense to help the side that is outmanned with a buff? I think it does. But then I also think that could be taken advantage of if you make the buff too good. It would be a strategy to move people off a map to GET the outmanned buff.

It is an interesting problem with no single resolution, at least to me.

lol, dam (the other spelling) is a bad word??

People are seriously complaining about Outnumbered? Most games wouldn’t even try to benefit you for having less players on your side.

The solution? Join a WvW guild, and stop leaving WvW when the buff pops up. You are only making the problem worse when you do.