Guild Wars 2

“Points per kill will be turned on and kept on. This is to more directly recognize the contribution that fighting other players adds to the success of the world.”

more players now ganking whatever goes by.
or even better spawn camping.

i ask to remove it.

(never saw so many gankers around showing their burst and evades allowed in every class after release of Hot)

I ask that they increase it to 2 points per kill. Then after a trial period look at increasing it to up to 3 points per kills….etc.

Ganks are good things.
Being more cautious with your life is a good thing.
Spawn camping is a good thing.

Whenever the enemy camps outside our spawn and people complain about it….I just laugh. I go one of the 2 side routes and go about my business. It’s like fish complaining about getting caught in a net as they intentionally swim straight into them.

If you don’t like it join a karma train bl or organize a group within your own bl so you can karma train or just play when guild runs are going on….you have plenty of options to combat that which you don’t seem to like/appreciate.

Screw PPK. When someone dies in WvW, they are out for the rest of the week. That will make the fights tense and make defending a hell of lot more easier.

And the better fight squads could slowly win through attrition even if they were outnumbered.

Heh? Heh?

Ganking is good…carebears are not.

PPK is wonderful. WvW veterans like myself are terribly bored of PPT because it’s unrewarding and not exciting. Fights are something new every time they happen because there are always different people, builds, guilds and geography involved.

The new players have far more things catering to their needs than the veterans and WvW almost strictly consists of people who love the game mode so dearly that they’re still hanging on to it. If you’re a new player, you’re in our territory which means either fight and have fun or get hunted while you attempt to ktrain until you rage quit.

Spawn camping is frustrating with that much I’ll agree but there are plenty of ways to counter it. Like not running straight in to their arms is a good start. Otherwise, roamers have always been a thing and now they have more of a purpose. I just wish as a solo roamer that being solo was more viable but I can’t complain with the abundance of fights. At least I don’t have to look for action anymore.

The only problem I have with PPK is that afaik, it doesnt take into account outnumbered. With the buff, you shouldnt give any PPK. Would be even better if outnumbered was better localized to the area of the map you are in.

As someone who is personally fights oriented, I like ppk. What I would like changed is for kills with siege to not count for it, because siegehumping needs to be nerfed not encouraged, its a plague and ruins wvw.

PPK has no effect on the overall score. Its nice to have but to be meaningful it should give much more points for each kill.

*Explaining why it has no effect: By Friday scores reach 200-300k, same time number of kills in most populated tiers reach 40-50k. Which sounds great! But if every server in same tier has 40k kills it means the overall score has 0% change. Also servers with highest kill count have also most deaths. I would guess it is possible for server to earn about 10k more kills then other servers in same tier, which gives them extra 10k points. That is about 3% of total score. In lower tiers and for most servers the total change from PPK is way below 1%.

X T D.6458:

As someone who is personally fights oriented, I like ppk. What I would like changed is for kills with siege to not count for it, because siegehumping needs to be nerfed not encouraged, its a plague and ruins wvw.

I think it would be better if siege damage against players was heavily decreased in favor of siege being more focused on causing aoe condi/CC. Implementing what you’re asking for sounds far more difficult in terms of coding.

Arcaedus.7290:

X T D.6458:

As someone who is personally fights oriented, I like ppk. What I would like changed is for kills with siege to not count for it, because siegehumping needs to be nerfed not encouraged, its a plague and ruins wvw.

I think it would be better if siege damage against players was heavily decreased in favor of siege being more focused on causing aoe condi/CC. Implementing what you’re asking for sounds far more difficult in terms of coding.

I think ac’s for example should have their damage against players reduced by like 50% but against siege increased, there should be a reduction in the amount of players that can be hit per skill 50 is ridiculous, more supply required for each, and an actual siege cap per raidus that actually works. There are already condi/cc skills for siege, and theres to much of that crap going on in regular skills anyways.

But anyways, one person being able to build an ac thats out of hittable range that can technically hit an entire zerg with skills that effect 50 people is absolutely ridiculous and counter productive to things like ppk and the new rez changes. Abusing siege does not promote healthy gameplay.

X T D.6458:

Arcaedus.7290:

X T D.6458:

As someone who is personally fights oriented, I like ppk. What I would like changed is for kills with siege to not count for it, because siegehumping needs to be nerfed not encouraged, its a plague and ruins wvw.

I think it would be better if siege damage against players was heavily decreased in favor of siege being more focused on causing aoe condi/CC. Implementing what you’re asking for sounds far more difficult in terms of coding.

I think ac’s for example should have their damage against players reduced by like 50% but against siege increased, there should be a reduction in the amount of players that can be hit per skill 50 is ridiculous, more supply required for each, and an actual siege cap per raidus that actually works. There are already condi/cc skills for siege, and theres to much of that crap going on in regular skills anyways.

But anyways, one person being able to build an ac thats out of hittable range that can technically hit an entire zerg with skills that effect 50 people is absolutely ridiculous and counter productive to things like ppk and the new rez changes. Abusing siege does not promote healthy gameplay.

That make absolutely no sense whatsoever since AC arent exactly designed to take down siege. It would just make a pincushion out of them.

If anything, AC fire rate should be reduced to around 20% of what it is today and siege damage should be exactly zero. The damage otherwise can remain.

“Spawn camping is a good thing.” ?
every one is free to have a personal opinion. and i still find it a sad thing.

a vulgar display of power and “blobbing”.

true there are different roads to get out from spawn.

this doesnt change its a sad thing to see.

(but you are right, maybe i should do what all the “normal” people do, use gems and transfer? so to make Anet happy?? so they can remove some servers and tiers???)

i see a player writing here that i respect (on human behaviour).
dont know how many times happened to be in 3-4 of us, going around and staying close to the enemy with their 15-20 organized guild builds.

they simply didnt care at all, why? in 3-4 vs 15-20 organized guild? no chance at all of course. and those 15-20 simply know that those 3-4 arent a threat.

this is fairness and honor.

PPK is overall a bad thing.

The PPK has very little effect in the final score, yet it has significantly increased gangking, exchanging kills and other toxic behavior, also making the game mode less newbie friendly (if you never played WvWvW and wasn’t smart enough to stick that blue dorito, you will be ganked over and again, probably never coming back).

Deniara Devious.3948:

PPK is overall a bad thing.

The PPK has very little effect in the final score, yet it has significantly increased gangking, exchanging kills and other toxic behavior, also making the game mode less newbie friendly (if you never played WvWvW and wasn’t smart enough to stick that blue dorito, you will be ganked over and again, probably never coming back).

No, its not, It supports more fighting in a game mode about pvp. And why does EVERYTHING have to be newbie friendly now? Its a game mode meant for group pvp combat, its the ONLY game mode meant for this, and the ONLY place you can do this. Even if you are totally new to the game, wouldn’t it make sense that if you don’t know what the game mode is about, you look it up?

PPK is fine. This is one of the few things where it is a learn to play issue. Every spawn has 3 exits. You don’t have to take the one that dives into enemy spawn campers. WvW “roaming” where you’re not on tag will make you rely on your own personal pvp skill. Go improve skill in sPvP if you keep getting ganked.

A player gets far fewer kills roaming and ganking than they do following a zerg around. I kill at least 20 times faster in zerg play. It takes weeks to get that number in skirmish.

Also gankers generally could care less about PPK. Our little group just likes to skirmish and PPK is irrelevant.

In regards to getting ganked. In some instances it’s not an issue of skill or build, a single player can’t take on eight people and expect to come out on top unless those eight are letting their cats roll around on their keyboards.

Above response was in reply to lioka qiao

I know the feeling of getting ganked quite a bit. I think at some point I stopped caring about it. In any case going into sPvP does help with your survival skill.

I think to myself “i don’t gank easy” when they try. I even scare them a bit before they beat me.

The only reason I’m not as into general PPK as I was the ruins buff PPK, is that it’s now too easy to obliterate or be obliterated by people in WvW. It used to be that ganking someone required perfection of CC with a damage rotation – now it’s just brain dead easy to kill people with little to no effort usually from range or just porting to them and pressing a skill. The finesse is all gone since the specialisation patch and introduction of HoT.

TorquedSoul.8097:

Screw PPK. When someone dies in WvW, they are out for the rest of the week. That will make the fights tense and make defending a hell of lot more easier.

And the better fight squads could slowly win through attrition even if they were outnumbered.

Heh? Heh?

God that would be so cool to watch.

Would be a great way to completely kill off the remaining wvw population though lol.

It’s too easy to kill enemies just spamming ranged skills.

You can also leech points throwing some AoE on top of 2 enemy forces fighting. You could even use siege to do this and hit 50 players at once.

If PPK was Points-Per-Finisher, the 3rd party could not leech from afar.

It would also require some tactical decision whether to risk a stomp and gain points or to ensure a kill with no risk.

Korgov.7645:

It’s too easy to kill enemies just spamming ranged skills.

You can also leech points throwing some AoE on top of 2 enemy forces fighting. You could even use siege to do this and hit 50 players at once.

If PPK was Points-Per-Finisher, the 3rd party could not leech from afar.

It would also require some tactical decision whether to risk a stomp and gain points or to ensure a kill with no risk.

Kinda think this is reading too much in to it…

It can happen sure… But it’s not happening on such a frequent basis that it’s changing the tides of matches.

PPK is fine. PvE heroes just don’t like that some groups are actively hunting them even though most of those groups could care less whether they’re contributing to the score or not. They just want to fight.

I love PPK. I wish it was 2 or 3 points instead of just 1. I wouldn’t go much higher than that as it would really reward blobbing too much.

I hope anet realizes that large-scale battles are what makes wvw fun and different than anything else out there. IMO, they should be doing a lot more to discourage players using siege against other players and make siege only damage doors, walls, and enemy siege. I would definitely like to see AC and ballista humpers get a “Persian Coward” (quote from the movie 300, not meant to be a racial slur against ethnic Persians) debuff for manning siege that prevents them from getting bags.

PPK needs to be much bigger part of the weekly score, up it to 2 then 3 pts per kill

" IMO, they should be doing a lot more to discourage players using siege against other players and make siege only damage doors, walls, and enemy siege. " ok then lets get rid of tier 7-8-9. merge tiers LOL

I like ppk, but it´s not relevant whether it gives 1, 2 or 3 points, the MU is decided when borders are empty and nobody tries to cap anything.

the only way to make ppk truly relevant is changing whole point system, such giving points per capture, per upgrade and successful defending event (which should be triggered when a wall or gate is damaged, not only for disabling waypoints.) not for having a keep in empty maps autoupgrading.

Let’s say you walk in the street and run into a pole. Your body’s senses tells you that this hurts and you cannot proceed without doing the same thing.

You:

1.) Walk into the pole again.
2.) Run quickly into the pole, headfirst.
3.) Find a way around the pole.
4.) Make a thread on the forum, demanding all poles be removed.

It’s not like I’ve never been ganked before, but after a few times…

The general idea that “PPK has increased toxic plays (such as ganking at spawn points)” is incorrect. It’s about how convenient it is to perform “toxic plays.” Furthermore, those “gankers” may wish to engage in gameplay that probably doesn’t perform well in spvp (either they’re using nerfed spvp builds or spvp-esque zerging without capping).

That is the fault of map design (spawn camping was/is even less of an issue on the old/new home borderland maps). Not PPK. The simple solution is provide easily identifiable polarized exits from the spawn point (east,west,south,north) that are inconvenient to spawn camp by enemies (as in they must go a longer distance to cover them all). Yes, I am aware there are other things that deter this in the new borderlands.

EBG doesn’t really do this (despite its popularity nowadays). It has the middle path that is easily identifiable by “new players” who will almost always go down it. In my opinion I would remove the middle path. You could argue the middle path overshadows the other paths by being more intuitive to “new players.”

Yes, anyone that cares about scoring in WvW has already realized PPK makes little impact. The “toxic players” are certainly not doing it for that: a paper tower on a dead borderland will tic more points than 5 gankers at a spawn in ebg.

Side note: water deters everyone… (yay water combat?)

I don’t typically spawn camp, but when I see it happening, it is because the campers are bored and looking for fights. Never heard anyone say, “let’s spawn camp and get an extra couple points per minute.”

since when gankers care about the points?

Cerby.1069:

I ask that they increase it to 2 points per kill. Then after a trial period look at increasing it to up to 3 points per kills….etc.

Ganks are good things.
Being more cautious with your life is a good thing.
Spawn camping is a good thing.

Whenever the enemy camps outside our spawn and people complain about it….I just laugh. I go one of the 2 side routes and go about my business. It’s like fish complaining about getting caught in a net as they intentionally swim straight into them.

If you don’t like it join a karma train bl or organize a group within your own bl so you can karma train or just play when guild runs are going on….you have plenty of options to combat that which you don’t seem to like/appreciate.

I’m a little torn between writing out a proper response to this or simply sticking with “are you a kittening kitten?”. I’ll go with both.
1) Ganks are not good things. You’re just a kitten. Ganks promote a toxic environment and lead to a false sense of superiority. All too often I see full try-hard mode thieves and mesmers (or a heavy class with thieves) running around ganking, using full evade one-trick pony builds. You stealthed, outnumbered and killed someone. Very wow. Much well done. I hope your kitten grew half an inch.
2)“Spawn camping is a good thing” – No, it’s not. It’s (as someone in this thread said) a vulgar and meaningless display of power and greater zerg size. All it does it contribute to a toxic environment yet again and breed anger. Sure, you could go another way but have you ever considered that newer, or less experienced players, won’t know about those other routes? They’ll likely just rage quit and not try wvw again, and understandably so.
3)“join a karma train bl” – Oh yes, lets just kill off the smaller servers completely. What a smashing idea. Have you ever considered that some servers just don’t have the population to start up their own karma train? Actually I can tell you from experience that they don’t.
4) Are you a kittening kittened?

Ganking and spawn camping are serious issues for new players and to be honest we need more people in WvW not less. It’s true there are other ways out of spawn, and learning to fight well helps but that doesn’t make it ok to encourage toxic behaviour like this. Neither ganking nor spawn camping help the players (on either side) or the game.

As for PPK, it’s largely irrelevant to me since I play in a low tier NA server and at off-peak times. I tend to PvD – not because I like this but because the doors are always there; players aren’t. I’m happy to get points if I can find someone to kill, and if they win then the points are theirs.

One thing I’ve noticed as of the implementation of PPK is that guilds from brainless PPT servers like SFR and the Germans are more likely than before to chase down individual roamers. It used to be that “real” WvW guilds had so much discipline that as a solo roamer you could stand by the side of the road and they would run by and leave you alone because big battles were why they were there, while chasing solo guys was not. I thought it was amazingly disciplined, organized, and respectful. Nowadays most of these “WvW guilds” are nothing but glorified gank squads.

As for bona fide gank squads, they can be avoided for the most part by exercising good map awareness and running a stealthy cancer build (without which roaming is pointless with all the HoT clown builds around).

Osu.6307:

I don’t typically spawn camp, but when I see it happening, it is because the campers are bored and looking for fights. Never heard anyone say, “let’s spawn camp and get an extra couple points per minute.”

Yea, I doubt I’d know a single person’s reasoning that would run…

“Let’s kill random people farm them for umm… spikes! And increase our server’s score by 1% if we do this for 7 hours a day!”

It’s very evident people are going to do this even if killing players yielded nothing. Because this mode, does in fact, involve killing other players because you can. Which is why I find claims of toxicity humorous, because the enemy is supposed to make you feel bad, excluding of course already forbidden things like sending hate mail or something. If I wanted to talk about that, I would worry about toxic behavior from one’s own team, maybe blaming people for dying and giving points in the enemy. Of course, anyone that plays with such a stick up their kitten will find themselves blocked very quickly.

People just have to realize that sometimes the other people killing you are just viewing you as mere pixels, not unlike other NPCs. Stop imagining that it must mean that they’re cracking out in evil laughter, doing it to stick it to you personally, and demeaning your worth as a human being (usually) Save that for the esports or that other forum. Yea, I get annoyed and rage when I get run over by a zerg, but I don’t give a second thought when I’m on the other end.

most important issue with ppk is that you can farm them with siege bunkering. not that big deal atm because nobody is tryhard defending atm, but when next tournament begin it will be big problem.
vote for a debuff “not worth any ppk” when you got hit by siege in the last 30 seconds. it should not be rewarding farm kills with ac´s.

Olli.9028:

most important issue with ppk is that you can farm them with siege bunkering. not that big deal atm because nobody is tryhard defending atm, but when next tournament begin it will be big problem.
vote for a debuff “not worth any ppk” when you got hit by siege in the last 30 seconds. it should not be rewarding farm kills with ac´s.

Olli , agree but siege bunkering is already a big problem when facing a server like YB. The amount of siege in keeps and towers is staggering! I’m all for PPK to promote fights but something needs to be done about the siege contribution to PPK. Siege in invulnerable places, shield generators, banners, airship and chilling fog are all cheesy and OP barriers to meaningful PPK and good fights. Doesn’t take any skill at all to use those things and rewards the no skill players/servers that have heaps of gold or have high level guild halls.

Siege really needs to be looked at, damage reduced or cooldowns increased. Some need to be eliminated from the game.

It’s time WvW rewarded skilled players/commanders for fights not through cheesy “defense”. People might come back to GW2 and WvW if this was the case, as it is I think 9 out of 10 WvW guilds have died since the HOT WvW changes and this attrition will continue if there are not changes made SOONEST!

Can we all just agree on one thing, PPK is given to appease fights groups only but has little to no value in the overall score as a havoc group can easily counter any PPK by taking unguarded objectives on the Desert BL’s. It’s a band aid.

Trajan.4953:

Can we all just agree on one thing, PPK is given to appease fights groups only but has little to no value in the overall score as a havoc group can easily counter any PPK by taking unguarded objectives on the Desert BL’s. It’s a band aid.

I can agree with that. And given there is never going to be a “Fair” fight in WvW it is right to not over-reward for kills. You can’t have an week long open world conflict with thousands of people and expect fair fights. To expect this is bordering on insanity. The history of warfare doesn’t support it why should a game simulating large scale warfare have it?

I’m tired of hearing people say “we could have won if it were a fair fight, if they didn’t have [greater numbers, all that siege, cheesey builds.]” If you don’t like the game that Anet made, go play game a like this that was better implemented …

oh right, there aren’t many games like this and those that do exist don’t result in fair fights either (EvE anyone.)

Please ArenaNet, give the fight guilds their Arena.

TorquedSoul.8097:

Trajan.4953:

Can we all just agree on one thing, PPK is given to appease fights groups only but has little to no value in the overall score as a havoc group can easily counter any PPK by taking unguarded objectives on the Desert BL’s. It’s a band aid.

I can agree with that. And given there is never going to be a “Fair” fight in WvW it is right to not over-reward for kills. You can’t have an week long open world conflict with thousands of people and expect fair fights. To expect this is bordering on insanity. The history of warfare doesn’t support it why should a game simulating large scale warfare have it?

I’m tired of hearing people say “we could have won if it were a fair fight, if they didn’t have [greater numbers, all that siege, cheesey builds.]” If you don’t like the game that Anet made, go play game a like this that was better implemented …

oh right, there aren’t many games like this and those that do exist don’t result in fair fights either (EvE anyone.)

Please ArenaNet, give the fight guilds their Arena.

This game doesn’t really simulate large scale warfare….

Plus, I don’t think many players expect “fair” fights in WvWvW. However, when you show and or become known for poor sportsmanship, don’t expect people to jump at the chance to play with you, in the end it’s a game regardless if you’re friend or foe. This is why, in a developmentally stagnant mode, I laugh at the “red is dead, this is war!” type people. Just because you can, doesn’t mean you should.

Also you do realize fight guilds aren’t always GvG guilds right? The term “zerg busting” should ring a bell. All thumbs are fingers but not all fingers are thumbs good sir.

gennyt.3428:

TorquedSoul.8097:

Trajan.4953:

Can we all just agree on one thing, PPK is given to appease fights groups only but has little to no value in the overall score as a havoc group can easily counter any PPK by taking unguarded objectives on the Desert BL’s. It’s a band aid.

I can agree with that. And given there is never going to be a “Fair” fight in WvW it is right to not over-reward for kills. You can’t have an week long open world conflict with thousands of people and expect fair fights. To expect this is bordering on insanity. The history of warfare doesn’t support it why should a game simulating large scale warfare have it?

I’m tired of hearing people say “we could have won if it were a fair fight, if they didn’t have [greater numbers, all that siege, cheesey builds.]” If you don’t like the game that Anet made, go play game a like this that was better implemented …

oh right, there aren’t many games like this and those that do exist don’t result in fair fights either (EvE anyone.)

Please ArenaNet, give the fight guilds their Arena.

This game doesn’t really simulate large scale warfare….

Plus, I don’t think many players expect “fair” fights in WvWvW. However, when you show and or become known for poor sportsmanship, don’t expect people to jump at the chance to play with you, in the end it’s a game regardless if you’re friend or foe. This is why, in a developmentally stagnant mode, I laugh at the “red is dead, this is war!” type people. Just because you can, doesn’t mean you should.

Also you do realize fight guilds aren’t always GvG guilds right? The term “zerg busting” should ring a bell. All thumbs are fingers but not all fingers are thumbs good sir.

From my experience, fight guilds are interested in fights. Sure they don’t all engage in a structured GvG, but I hear plenty of complaints about fight imbalances, the use of siege equipment and cheesey OP builds which makes me think that if they could abandon the PPT nonsense and just have an arena, many would be happier.

When I hear game balance I laugh. Until population is balanced nothing else really matters. And even when that happens there will be complaints about style of play. “Our” style is more honorable, noble and skill based, their style is cheesey, rude and unsportsmanlike. This mindset comes from the losers more than the winners. When you are losing week after week you have to make sense of it. You know, the game is broken, Its imbalanced, the other side is afraid of a fair fight or they are just plain bad people. It gets tiring after a while … the “we can win if want to, but its more meaningful to say the other side is bad and blame Anet for encouraging their style of play.”

funghetto.1584:

“Points per kill will be turned on and kept on. This is to more directly recognize the contribution that fighting other players adds to the success of the world.”

more players now ganking whatever goes by.
or even better spawn camping.

i ask to remove it.

(never saw so many gankers around showing their burst and evades allowed in every class after release of Hot)

The purpose of existance of WVW is mass, open world PVP and it is has lost massive amount of players due to going in opposite direction and lack of support for those. From the sound of things, you are the kind of player that would feel more at home in EOTM rather then WVW and like many others here, I very much disagree with you.

I would make an entire PPK system. In this system all PPK bonusses would be stackable up to max of 5 PPK per single kill, and there would be more then 5 ways to get to the conditions which will provide max kill value.

For example:

Base = 1 PPK per 1 kill, as is now

Kill opponent whose side outnumbers you by 30%, 1 PPK
Kill opponent whose side outnumbers you by 60%, +2 PPK
Kill opponent while under effect of defense event, +1 PPK
Kill opponent while opposing players have generated orange swords, +1 PPK
Kill opponent while the opposing force is under effect of any of the guild banners, recent stealth effect from the SMC fountain, etc. +1 PPK
Kill opponent while being the only sole defender under the effects of defense event, +2 PPK, this would be a little bonus for people who solo defend camps, yaks, towers, etc.
Kill opponent after remaining 1 hour on a map or completing 10 events on the map (whichever comes first, and the number values are actually TBD, kinda like the PVE map bonusses), +1 PPK
Make the above stackable to max +3 PPK

Next, tie the above PPK bonusses to MF and provide MF bonus.
Next, impliment personal reward tracks and tie them into the PPK bonus.

Just the above would greatly contribute to improving the whole WVW. Being more PPK instead of PPT focused, matches would be determined at least in large part by actual player battles instead of capping and holding empty objectives. Getting kills + additional MF while being outnumbered would go a LONG way to give players an incentive to get better (thus reflect a bit more on skill) and blob a bit less.

Under this system, you can still blob, but you’d be just slightly better off not doing so.

Tongku.5326:

funghetto.1584:

“Points per kill will be turned on and kept on. This is to more directly recognize the contribution that fighting other players adds to the success of the world.”

more players now ganking whatever goes by.
or even better spawn camping.

i ask to remove it.

(never saw so many gankers around showing their burst and evades allowed in every class after release of Hot)

The purpose of existance of WVW is mass, open world PVP and it is has lost massive amount of players due to going in opposite direction and lack of support for those. From the sound of things, you are the kind of player that would feel more at home in EOTM rather then WVW and like many others here, I very much disagree with you.

I would make an entire PPK system. In this system all PPK bonusses would be stackable up to max of 5 PPK per single kill, and there would be more then 5 ways to get to the conditions which will provide max kill value.

For example:

Base = 1 PPK per 1 kill, as is now

Kill opponent whose side outnumbers you by 30%, 1 PPK
Kill opponent whose side outnumbers you by 60%, +2 PPK
Kill opponent while under effect of defense event, +1 PPK
Kill opponent while opposing players have generated orange swords, +1 PPK
Kill opponent while the opposing force is under effect of any of the guild banners, recent stealth effect from the SMC fountain, etc. +1 PPK
Kill opponent while being the only sole defender under the effects of defense event, +2 PPK, this would be a little bonus for people who solo defend camps, yaks, towers, etc.
Kill opponent after remaining 1 hour on a map or completing 10 events on the map (whichever comes first, and the number values are actually TBD, kinda like the PVE map bonusses), +1 PPK
Make the above stackable to max +3 PPK

Next, tie the above PPK bonusses to MF and provide MF bonus.
Next, impliment personal reward tracks and tie them into the PPK bonus.

Just the above would greatly contribute to improving the whole WVW. Being more PPK instead of PPT focused, matches would be determined at least in large part by actual player battles instead of capping and holding empty objectives. Getting kills + additional MF while being outnumbered would go a LONG way to give players an incentive to get better (thus reflect a bit more on skill) and blob a bit less.

Under this system, you can still blob, but you’d be just slightly better off not doing so.

I wonder how keeping track of all that information to evaluate PPK would impact server performance?

Ganking and fighting other players in a mass PvP area should be rewarded.

I can’t imagine OP having played before HoT when Guild v Guild and zerg busting was a thing on every server, or maybe he did and decided it was bad for WvW that so many guilds used to fight instead of just flipping tower NPC’s.

Chinchilla.1785:

The general idea that “PPK has increased toxic plays (such as ganking at spawn points)” is incorrect. It’s about how convenient it is to perform “toxic plays.” Furthermore, those “gankers” may wish to engage in gameplay that probably doesn’t perform well in spvp (either they’re using nerfed spvp builds or spvp-esque zerging without capping).

That is the fault of map design (spawn camping was/is even less of an issue on the old/new home borderland maps). Not PPK. The simple solution is provide easily identifiable polarized exits from the spawn point (east,west,south,north) that are inconvenient to spawn camp by enemies (as in they must go a longer distance to cover them all). Yes, I am aware there are other things that deter this in the new borderlands.

EBG doesn’t really do this (despite its popularity nowadays). It has the middle path that is easily identifiable by “new players” who will almost always go down it. In my opinion I would remove the middle path. You could argue the middle path overshadows the other paths by being more intuitive to “new players.”

Yes, anyone that cares about scoring in WvW has already realized PPK makes little impact. The “toxic players” are certainly not doing it for that: a paper tower on a dead borderland will tic more points than 5 gankers at a spawn in ebg.

Side note: water deters everyone… (yay water combat?)

Water doesn’t deter everyone…necro trident underwater combat >=) sit just under the surface and hit people through walls/hills with undead piranna. I miss that sPvP map…so many kills from people hoping to LoS me when they dragged me into the water like a fool…

I also know several people that enjoy the underwater combat in PvE, or used to…before they removed several large events from various maps.

TorquedSoul.8097:

Trajan.4953:

Can we all just agree on one thing, PPK is given to appease fights groups only but has little to no value in the overall score as a havoc group can easily counter any PPK by taking unguarded objectives on the Desert BL’s. It’s a band aid.

I can agree with that. And given there is never going to be a “Fair” fight in WvW it is right to not over-reward for kills. You can’t have an week long open world conflict with thousands of people and expect fair fights. To expect this is bordering on insanity. The history of warfare doesn’t support it why should a game simulating large scale warfare have it?

I’m tired of hearing people say “we could have won if it were a fair fight, if they didn’t have [greater numbers, all that siege, cheesey builds.]” If you don’t like the game that Anet made, go play game a like this that was better implemented …

oh right, there aren’t many games like this and those that do exist don’t result in fair fights either (EvE anyone.)

Please ArenaNet, give the fight guilds their Arena.

They do have an arena…int he guild hall however, and it utilizes PvE gear. Lovely isn’kitten

But… but… War is NOT fair, never has been.

Server imbalance is your choice, you can transfer to a comfy tier any time you like. Nightcapping with no resistance, a strong EU presence to counter, NA wild times etc etc are just part of the game.

In my humble experience the ride up for a server has always been way more fun than the “balanced” tiers where everything just sits into meta after meta after meta.

I don’t think there should ever be any attention given to “balancing” the servers. Take DB for example, those guys have risen, been beaten down and risen again so many times you could name a Batman movie after them. Do you think they aren’t enjoying their current rise now as compared to being endlessly locked with two other “equal” servers?

Look at how YB destroyed the entire old game meta to take a well earned place at the top. They did it through pure force of will and a strong server community. Love them or hate them, they rolled over you to get where they are.

The very volatility of this game mode is one of the best things about it.

IMHO.

Trajan.4953:

But… but… War is NOT fair, never has been.

Server imbalance is your choice, you can transfer to a comfy tier any time you like. Nightcapping with no resistance, a strong EU presence to counter, NA wild times etc etc are just part of the game.

In my humble experience the ride up for a server has always been way more fun than the “balanced” tiers where everything just sits into meta after meta after meta.

I don’t think there should ever be any attention given to “balancing” the servers. Take DB for example, those guys have risen, been beaten down and risen again so many times you could name a Batman movie after them. Do you think they aren’t enjoying their current rise now as compared to being endlessly locked with two other “equal” servers?

Look at how YB destroyed the entire old game meta to take a well earned place at the top. They did it through pure force of will and a strong server community. Love them or hate them, they rolled over you to get where they are.

The very volatility of this game mode is one of the best things about it.

IMHO.

YB became a bandwagon server thats why they rose up, and the only reason they are winning is because of what hot did to wvw in driving players away, causing people to play less, or just taking a break altogether. Hell JQ barely shows up at all anymore, some kind of boycott or something lol idk. People on BG and JQ dont want to burn themselves out playing for PPT during a meaningless week, there is no point to griding PPT unless there is a tournament or for fear of dropping tiers. Nobody enjoys fighting that garbage server and their endless bunkering and siegecreeep.

DB is a little different, they always rose up because they became a bandwagon destination, but eventually would fall for a variety of reasons, internal server issues, full status due to old server population calculation. But they always had a strong OCX/SEA which kept them from plummeting down to the lower tiers, so they would basically roller coaster over and over. But since the new server status is based on activity and not overall population DB is a lot more stable and has been able to attract more guilds to rise up.