Guild Wars 2

Toxsa.2701:

Genlog.4983:

a good mesmer can easy counter a good thief if you no how to play your mesmer

Umm.. it’s other way round.
Other than PU mesmer, mesmer are known to be free kill to experienced thief.
(But again, even if you go PU, thief can instead go for perplex, which you’ll lose again)

i see many mesmers mostly GS build that totally kill other players easy with insane damage

but then again pll also complain about rangers with there rapid fire
ore a guardian that is almost unstoppable

i think its more how you play your class and how your build and gear is
in my few every class can beat a other class

Genlog.4983:

Toxsa.2701:

Genlog.4983:

a good mesmer can easy counter a good thief if you no how to play your mesmer

Umm.. it’s other way round.
Other than PU mesmer, mesmer are known to be free kill to experienced thief.
(But again, even if you go PU, thief can instead go for perplex, which you’ll lose again)

i see many mesmers mostly GS build that totally kill other players easy with insane damage

but then again pll also complain about rangers with there rapid fire
ore a guardian that is almost unstoppable

i think its more how you play your class and how your build and gear is
in my few every class can beat a other class

Nothing is as cheap as venom perplex condition thief seriously. One of the most cheesy build and worst offender in WVW. Go roam abit and see.

mako.2431:

I don’t care if this dude’s story is legit or not, NERF THIEVES yesterday. I am close to quitting this game because of this overpowered bs of a class. I feel sorry for you people who need to play cheese specs with this class in wvw.

Cheese specs? Prob refering to condi and ds evasion builds but otherwise dp builds are usually focused on damage and when a class is focused on damage it means their health would be very low(compared to someone with a more balanced build), every class has the capabilities to be able to kill most of the other classes, just depends on the skill difference between you and your oponent

That’s some godly thief you met there, doing insane condi dmg with SWORD/PISTOL and bow offhand, burst dmg too and stealthing 24/7. The best part is that most people posting here didn’t notice/keep ignoring this bs in OP’s posts and just QQ’ing about thieves being op.

No wonder all of you get owned by thieves, the class is a hard counter for every player with afk brain.

Jayden Ennok.3687:

That’s some godly thief you met there, doing insane condi dmg with SWORD/PISTOL and bow offhand, burst dmg too and stealthing 24/7. The best part is that most people posting here didn’t notice/keep ignoring this bs in OP’s posts and just QQ’ing about thieves being op.

No wonder all of you get owned by thieves, the class is a hard counter for every player with afk brain.

You are correct! What i find very interesting is that thief class had many “nerf” in past 3 years. Yes! i see the patch but where is change?

That is why when player say thief was nerf, i ask, where?

AoE conditions.
Next time bring a Nading engi.

I’ve seen this happen quite a bit with thieves and mesmers. And while the player fighting the group is indeed quite decent the main reason for the group failing is a combination of a few things.

1.not being aware of what the class they are fighting is able to do (skills,placement,cool downs)
2. Not playing as a team. So many times I see a small skirmish group fall to smaller numbers because they refuse to work as a unit to achieve a common goal.
3 Not using CC properly within your group…a group of people who blow CC on top of each other or use it at a poor time are destined to fail.
4. Lastly….throttle shock! Ive found that in a fight a group member will panic and run all over when engaged which can go bad in a hurry.

Anyhow,just my opinion.

Jaxx

there are things and thief cant win from
1 is a ranger skill call sick him its a bad thing for a thief
he cant cloak anymore

also you can buy things for stealth classes so you can see them

and if nobody use those things then a thief have a free room to get in and out of cloak all the time and kill players 1 by 1

every class have something that is good vs other classes

but there are classes that are OP in some areas
like terror necro build very OP in EOTM

if he is good he can kill allot of players in a singel strike
and you cant say nerco is OP nerf nerf him -.-

but that build is only good in EOTM
not in WvW

but this is just my opinion

sorry for my English

Recipe to destroy any soloer and even small groups in WvW…

Thief can;
1) Make everybody lose target at will (stealth, and lots of it),
2) Thrive (unlike most other classes) in WvW with a sPvP spec (because of stealth players can’t focus damage in the correct locale),
3) Experience no counter-play (because of stealth (again)) – you can’t evade an attack you can’t see coming.

Meanwhile most other classes spec for high defense and low damage in order to survive big fights, making them heavy but easy pickings for thief.

Hum if this was in wvw stealth trap problem solved. Do not chase it just like it come into to trap. The thief was baiting your group into a situation he could win. Also, reevaluate your wvw roaming build.

Ulion.5476:

Hum if this was in wvw stealth trap problem solved. Do not chase it just like it come into to trap.

Nobody drops stealth traps because nobody knows where invisible guy is. It’s a hugely circumstantial tool.

Johje Holan.4607:

Great post. There are ways to make stealth better in this game without crippling Thieves. This and other suggestions I’ve seen would be great. (Although I think a few of these probably aren’t possible technically.)

I still think the easiest way is have ways to make a player visible, without making them drop stealth (still get other benefits of stealth).

Well thieves in my opinion have a lot more than just stealth.

Honestly its not just the stealth that is the problem.

Chill. The rest of the classes in the game have to deal with chill affecting CD, but because thieves “Dont have” a CD it does not affect them this way.
Honestly chill should slow initiative regen so the thief has to deal with the same things the rest of us do there.

Interrupts. Once again the rest of the game deals with a CD when interrupted. Yet thieves also do not deal with this. Initiative regen should stop completely for that same time period that others have to deal with the CD.

Now one thing to stealth that should be changed, I think, is light fields should reveal stealth. It would take two things to happen for that to work, the thief would need to both be in stealth and be in the light field. This would make guardian symbols have reveal benefits, but given its a light field that does make sense.

Personally I think all three should happen, but specifically the top two.

PS and yes Im fully aware that light fields are pretty much the same size as Shadow Refuge.

Great ideas, nightblood.7910!!! It never occurred to me about chill and interrupts, but you have a point.

Have to say I hate the idea that we need to carry a “trap” that costs 15 silver and some badges of honor if we want to reveal a thief. What kind of poo is that? Light fields revealing stealth would be an excellent addition to the game.

Read this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UC22ZF21Llk

“This is why stealth action game so often fail. Stealth and action are at odd of each other”

That is the problem with thief design.

-Stealth-

1. " The “Easy-fighting” mistake ":

The purpose of infiltration game is to avoid front confrontation with ennemies. Satisfaction comes when you pass through a room without being spotted, whether you knocked down NPCs or simply passed through. Full satisfaction is gained when you though of a right plan (Step 2) that perfectly worked (in Step 3). It is a reward for your mind, somehow similar to a puzzle game: you discovered one right answer to solve the problem (current room).

If you get spotted, that means either you haven’t found a right solution, or somehow your plan did’nt work so well. So the game punishes you, and if you don’t hide quickly and well, you may get killed.

If direct confrontation becomes too easy for the player, the satisfaction will sensibly decrease, because the player will think "What’s the point of thinking so much if I can just go and kill".

DarkSyze.8627:

Read this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UC22ZF21Llk

“why stealth action game fail? stealth and action are at odd of each other”

I actually agree with this part. Part of the problem with the thief class is there really isnt much for the thief to do and be its thiefy self.

Out in the middle of the battle field mentality really isnt good for a thief in logic and lore, And because this is not really an open world PvP its hard to find the correct placement for that game mentality and it actually fit.

Even mesmers have been able to place itself in a position of playing a “thief” role with hiding in keeps to port others in.

It would be an interesting twist to have objectives that require stealth to take and win in both sPvP and WvW settings. Something requiring stealth only and limited number of people (No blasting smoke from a zerg to get through these things.) for the thief to be engaging in and have an advantage in besides harassing other players.

Wow.

Sinbold.8723:

Great ideas, nightblood.7910!!! It never occurred to me about chill and interrupts, but you have a point.

Have to say I hate the idea that we need to carry a “trap” that costs 15 silver and some badges of honor if we want to reveal a thief. What kind of poo is that? Light fields revealing stealth would be an excellent addition to the game.

Just gonna go ahead and call out nightblood.7910 for being the guy who whined about thieves for a couple days in the thief forums. Then someone told him to make a video of him playing thief in PvP and he posted this less than one day later:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/So-I-kinda-Rescind/first#post4881370

This guy’s posts are pure comedy. You should be embarrassed to agree with him.

If you are losing to Thieves 1v1 and you’re not a mesmer, it’s because you’re bad.

morbidillusion.2759:

Sinbold.8723:

Great ideas, nightblood.7910!!! It never occurred to me about chill and interrupts, but you have a point.

Have to say I hate the idea that we need to carry a “trap” that costs 15 silver and some badges of honor if we want to reveal a thief. What kind of poo is that? Light fields revealing stealth would be an excellent addition to the game.

Just gonna go ahead and call out nightblood.7910 for being the guy who whined about thieves for a couple days in the thief forums. Then someone told him to make a video of him playing thief in PvP and he posted this less than one day later:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/So-I-kinda-Rescind/first#post4881370

This guy’s posts are pure comedy. You should be embarrassed to agree with him.

If you are losing to Thieves 1v1 and you’re not a mesmer, it’s because you’re bad.

Careful, you might get called out about being a “whiteknight” or maining the class.

It’s best to just watch and read this thread…

After all, these threads are just venting threads – at best.

morbidillusion.2759:

Sinbold.8723:

Great ideas, nightblood.7910!!! It never occurred to me about chill and interrupts, but you have a point.

Have to say I hate the idea that we need to carry a “trap” that costs 15 silver and some badges of honor if we want to reveal a thief. What kind of poo is that? Light fields revealing stealth would be an excellent addition to the game.

Just gonna go ahead and call out nightblood.7910 for being the guy who whined about thieves for a couple days in the thief forums. Then someone told him to make a video of him playing thief in PvP and he posted this less than one day later:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/So-I-kinda-Rescind/first#post4881370

This guy’s posts are pure comedy. You should be embarrassed to agree with him.

If you are losing to Thieves 1v1 and you’re not a mesmer, it’s because you’re bad.

Yes and I apologized to that forum too. I completely was wrong in their damage proportion vs these other aspects.

Pure comedy, please explain.

Why should thieves not have to deal with chill like the rest?

Why should their be only limited reveal capabilities by certain classes carrying certain skills?

And why is it that the only thing thieves can bring to the table in this discussion is insults to whoever suggests some fairness to the thief mechanics.

There are a ton of people complaining about thieves and the only response that anyone has been able to give to that is “there is something wrong you, you dont know how to play.”

Yeah an enitee community of people complaining about a specific class and its mechanics as being unfair must have something to do with those people and not the thief mechanics.

I also said in those posts as soon as I created the thief I instantly saw what made them overpowered, and its in the initiative mechanics combined with stealth. The more Ive played them the more Ive seen they are immune to things like chill and interrupts. I do apologize as I havent finished leveling that thief as Im not interested in wasting Tomes on it.
Why do thieves need to be immune to other skill mechanics as well as having their very own skill mechanic that sets them aside from other classes?

Why should their be no counter to stealth amongst player skills?

Why cant you bring anything but personal attacks to a conversation?

morbidillusion.2759:

Sinbold.8723:

Great ideas, nightblood.7910!!! It never occurred to me about chill and interrupts, but you have a point.

Have to say I hate the idea that we need to carry a “trap” that costs 15 silver and some badges of honor if we want to reveal a thief. What kind of poo is that? Light fields revealing stealth would be an excellent addition to the game.

Just gonna go ahead and call out nightblood.7910 for being the guy who whined about thieves for a couple days in the thief forums. Then someone told him to make a video of him playing thief in PvP and he posted this less than one day later:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/So-I-kinda-Rescind/first#post4881370

This guy’s posts are pure comedy. You should be embarrassed to agree with him.

If you are losing to Thieves 1v1 and you’re not a mesmer, it’s because you’re bad.

I suggest you read Arena net: Rule of Conduct

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/legal/guild-wars-2-rules-of-conduct/

DarkSyze.8627:

I suggest you read Arena net: Rule of Conduct

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/legal/guild-wars-2-rules-of-conduct/

Actually going by the rules of conduct, you guys (general people like you) are, and have been for the past 2 years, technically harassing the thieves community by creating numerous unproductive posts. You’ve also been preventing us from “rights to play and enjoy the Game.” by verbally harassing us in game after we have beaten you.

So it really depends on how you look at things.

nightblood.7910:

morbidillusion.2759:

Sinbold.8723:

Great ideas, nightblood.7910!!! It never occurred to me about chill and interrupts, but you have a point.

Have to say I hate the idea that we need to carry a “trap” that costs 15 silver and some badges of honor if we want to reveal a thief. What kind of poo is that? Light fields revealing stealth would be an excellent addition to the game.

Just gonna go ahead and call out nightblood.7910 for being the guy who whined about thieves for a couple days in the thief forums. Then someone told him to make a video of him playing thief in PvP and he posted this less than one day later:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/So-I-kinda-Rescind/first#post4881370

This guy’s posts are pure comedy. You should be embarrassed to agree with him.

If you are losing to Thieves 1v1 and you’re not a mesmer, it’s because you’re bad.

Yes and I apologized to that forum too. I completely was wrong in their damage proportion vs these other aspects.

Pure comedy, please explain.

Why should thieves not have to deal with chill like the rest?

Why should their be only limited reveal capabilities by certain classes carrying certain skills?

And why is it that the only thing thieves can bring to the table in this discussion is insults to whoever suggests some fairness to the thief mechanics.

There are a ton of people complaining about thieves and you guys get all bent out of shape because people want you drawn back a bit.

I also said in those posts as soon as I created the thief I instantly saw what made them overpowered, and its in the initiative mechanics combined with stealth. The more Ive played them the more Ive seen they are immune to things like chill and interrupts. I do apologize as I havent finished leveling that thief as Im not interested in wasting Tomes on it.
Why do thieves need to be immune to other skill mechanics as well as having their very own skill mechanic that sets them aside from other classes?

Why should their be no counter to stealth amongst player skills?

Why cant you bring anything but personal attacks to a conversation?

You are correct: here is evidence to support you.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/The-thief-and-its-gameplay-Your-feedback-Merged/first

Here is first post of thief being OP: also show evidence of Arena net closing thread. Evidence why thief receive no serious nerf for 3 years, Evidence of Arena net ignore player problem with thief and still ignore for 3 years.

Look at wvw now: no fun and challenge: that is what happen when a company ignore player problem. Instead of investigating it and fixing it: they hide it instead.

I am not going to tell you to stop reporting thief problem but to Arena net: you are wasting your time. Same thing like first player, include you, me and many other player who report of thief problem, Arena net solution will always continue, “ignore player problem” and close thread if want.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/Thief-damage-is-OP/first#post67999

“The way companies handle complaints can mean the difference between success and failure in an increasingly competitive marketplace. Businesses that turn complaints into opportunities for building closer relationships with customers are the ones that are most likely to survive and prosper”.

“The complaint is a signal that should not be ignored. When customers complain, they are giving your company an opportunity to fix what is wrong and improve your business. Why? Customers act in their own self-interest, and they are in a unique position to tell your company the unvarnished truth”

“Why Customer Complaints Are Good For Your Business”

http://www.superoffice.com/blog/customer-complaints-good-for-business/

Yeah I know, its why I backed out of the thief forums with an apology and havent returned.

Honestly, I said in this post (not really expecting some change) what I personally think should happen with thieves. I do see my own mistake complaining about thieves in the thief forum. That was rather stupid of me.

But this is the WvW forum and I was just adding a to a conversation some things that are truths, if it gets noticed great, if not ohh well.

nightblood.7910:

Yeah I know, its why I backed out of the thief forums with an apology and havent returned.

Honestly, I said in this post (not really expecting some change) what I personally think should happen with thieves. I do see my own mistake complaining about thieves in the thief forum. That was rather stupid of me.

But this is the WvW forum and I was just adding a to a conversation some things that are truths personal beliefs, if it gets noticed great, if not ohh well.

Personal beliefs, should be a bit more correct.

:D You guys are wonderful btw.

O.K. do thieves suffer what other classes do from chill in their weapon skills? Is it not a truth that they are immune to chill’s affect on weapon skills that other classes have?

Is it not a truth that the same thing is for interrupt mechanics and how thieves also do not suffer from the same penalty for being interrupted in their weapon skills?

nightblood.7910:

O.K. do thieves suffer what other classes do from chill in their weapon skills? Is it not a truth that they are immune to chill’s affect on weapon skills that other classes have?

Is it not a truth that the same thing is for interrupt mechanics and how thieves also do not suffer from the same penalty for being interrupted in their weapon skills?

Those are/were questions, and worded as such. Trying to get whoever is reading to come up with an answer, hopefully one that falls in line with w/e your trying to argue.

Your belief seems to be that it would be fair that thieves are effected by chill/interrupts.

Zero Day.2594:

nightblood.7910:

O.K. do thieves suffer what other classes do from chill in their weapon skills? Is it not a truth that they are immune to chill’s affect on weapon skills that other classes have?

Is it not a truth that the same thing is for interrupt mechanics and how thieves also do not suffer from the same penalty for being interrupted in their weapon skills?

Those are/were questions, and worded as such. Trying to get whoever is reading to come up with an answer, hopefully one that falls in line with w/e your trying to argue.

Your belief seems to be that it would be fair that thieves are effected by chill/interrupts.

That part is a truth too, but these are facts that thieves have immunity to these areas in their weapon skills correct?

You discuss how a mechanic like stealth should not be touched because its the mechanic of thieves and its very important, yet the mechanics of other’s skills, you should be immune to because well youre thieves and its very important.

nightblood.7910:

Why should thieves not have to deal with chill like the rest?

Chill effects Thief utilities, heals, elites and movement speed the same as any other class. It doesn’t effect weapon skills because of the initiative system. Why should Thieves not have a fresh set of initiative on weapon swap like every other class has fresh cooldowns? There are gives and takes that you are completely oblivious to because you spend all of your time trying to get thieves nerfed on the forums instead of getting a clue.

There are a ton of people complaining about thieves and the only response that anyone has been able to give to that is “there is something wrong you, you dont know how to play.”

This is a youtube video of Caed, thief for The Abjured, arguably the best in the game and certainly better than any casual player. He somehow defeats the ranger 2-1 and against the engineer it’s a joke. He relies heavily on LOS-porting with sword which is often not an option. Watching him lose almost all of his health in seconds and having to constantly reset if he gets hit by any condi skills while he needs to literally stick to the ranger for 20+ seconds of unmitigated melee in order to kill him is the perfect example of the mathematical disadvantage that Thieves face.

Thieves are annoying for noobs. Not overpowered.

Why should their be no counter to stealth amongst player skills?

Press 1.

Why cant you bring anything but personal attacks to a conversation?

Why can’t you stop trying to nerf a class that you don’t play and have no idea how to play? I’m pretty sure I saw you in the guardian forums (I also play guardian) and surmised that you play/main a guardian. If you are honestly complaining about Thieves from the perspective of a guardian you really need to get a clue. You are actively choosing to be bad at this game and lose to Thieves by refusing to spend any amount of time understanding what allows a Thief to stealth, port, etc.

nightblood.7910:

Zero Day.2594:

nightblood.7910:

O.K. do thieves suffer what other classes do from chill in their weapon skills? Is it not a truth that they are immune to chill’s affect on weapon skills that other classes have?

Is it not a truth that the same thing is for interrupt mechanics and how thieves also do not suffer from the same penalty for being interrupted in their weapon skills?

Those are/were questions, and worded as such. Trying to get whoever is reading to come up with an answer, hopefully one that falls in line with w/e your trying to argue.

Your belief seems to be that it would be fair that thieves are effected by chill/interrupts.

That part is a truth too, but these are facts that thieves have immunity to these areas in their weapon skills correct?

You discuss how a mechanic like stealth should not be touched because its the mechanic of thieves and its very important, yet the mechanics of other’s skills, you should be immune to because well youre thieves and its very important.

read here:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/Thief-and-Chill

morbidillusion.2759:

nightblood.7910:

Why should thieves not have to deal with chill like the rest?

Chill effects Thief utilities, heals, elites and movement speed the same as any other class. It doesn’t effect weapon skills because of the initiative system. Why should Thieves not have a fresh set of initiative on weapon swap like every other class has fresh cooldowns? There are gives and takes that you are completely oblivious to because you spend all of your time trying to get thieves nerfed on the forums instead of getting a clue.

There are a ton of people complaining about thieves and the only response that anyone has been able to give to that is “there is something wrong you, you dont know how to play.”

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yYS9Q8Iq0Dk

This is a youtube video of Caed, thief for The Abjured, arguably the best in the game and certainly better than any casual player. He somehow defeats the ranger 2-1 and against the engineer it’s a joke. He relies heavily on LOS-porting with sword which is often not an option. Watching him lose almost all of his health in seconds and having to constantly reset if he gets hit by any condi skills while he needs to literally stick to the ranger for 20+ seconds of unmitigated melee in order to kill him is the perfect example of the mathematical disadvantage that Thieves face.

Thieves are annoying for noobs. Not overpowered.

Why should their be no counter to stealth amongst player skills?

Press 1.

Why cant you bring anything but personal attacks to a conversation?

Why can’t you stop trying to nerf a class that you don’t play and have no idea how to play? I’m pretty sure I saw you in the guardian forums (I also play guardian) and surmised that you play/main a guardian. If you are honestly complaining about Thieves from the perspective of a guardian you really need to get a clue. You are actively choosing to be bad at this game and lose to Thieves by refusing to spend any amount of time understanding what allows a Thief to stealth, port, etc.

1. It affects my weapon skills, some of them being just as important as yours. Why exactly do I not have immunity to chill in my weapon sets?

2. Just press one, not always as effective as you guys make it out to be. While you can still be hit with wild swings, and maybe if Im lucky I land a mighty blow on you while in stealth, thats not a very reliable way to attack. I work without targets very often and to do that, its all about visual understanding of your target, when they are going to move, where they are going to move, and how they move. Even ranger evasion skills can be read. Stealth cant be read. While that is an advantage to you, I dont think it should be completely taken away. I said light fields should reveal stealth, can you imagine the problem of catching a thief in a light field while in stealth. It wouldnt be easy. Its a very minor change to stealth.

3. As of late, I do main guard but I main staff ele really (thus the chill reference) and thieves were a huge problem. I do admit though, Im not complaining for guards, Im complaining for the many other classes.

4. I agree with the engineer solo problem.

5. Thank you for adding to the conversation with something more than “youre just a noob. There is something wrong with you.”

nightblood.7910:

Zero Day.2594:

nightblood.7910:

O.K. do thieves suffer what other classes do from chill in their weapon skills? Is it not a truth that they are immune to chill’s affect on weapon skills that other classes have?

Is it not a truth that the same thing is for interrupt mechanics and how thieves also do not suffer from the same penalty for being interrupted in their weapon skills?

Those are/were questions, and worded as such. Trying to get whoever is reading to come up with an answer, hopefully one that falls in line with w/e your trying to argue.

Your belief seems to be that it would be fair that thieves are effected by chill/interrupts.

That part is a truth too, but these are facts that thieves have immunity to these areas in their weapon skills correct?

…

Weird. I thought a truth is something like “thieves exist in gw2” and not “I think they should be effected by a condition”.

Actually technically, since it’s your belief, and you’ve accepted it, it is true for you. So yeah on some level you are correct. Trying to impose it as the “truth” onto other people though…

nightblood.7910:

You discuss how a mechanic like stealth should not be touched because its the mechanic of thieves and its very important, yet the mechanics of other’s skills, you should be immune to because well youre thieves and its very important.

Yes, discredit me because I “play”/main the thief class. It also has nothing to do what I’ve been quoting you on. Solid.

DarkSyze.8627:

nightblood.7910:

Zero Day.2594:

nightblood.7910:

O.K. do thieves suffer what other classes do from chill in their weapon skills? Is it not a truth that they are immune to chill’s affect on weapon skills that other classes have?

Is it not a truth that the same thing is for interrupt mechanics and how thieves also do not suffer from the same penalty for being interrupted in their weapon skills?

Those are/were questions, and worded as such. Trying to get whoever is reading to come up with an answer, hopefully one that falls in line with w/e your trying to argue.

Your belief seems to be that it would be fair that thieves are effected by chill/interrupts.

That part is a truth too, but these are facts that thieves have immunity to these areas in their weapon skills correct?

You discuss how a mechanic like stealth should not be touched because its the mechanic of thieves and its very important, yet the mechanics of other’s skills, you should be immune to because well youre thieves and its very important.

read here:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/Thief-and-Chill

Once again, and Im kinda done arguing. But even that post suggest thieves need “reliable” ways of counter, while everyone else should have unreliable ways to counter them.

I admit though, the person responsible for defending thieves to the dev team has been really good at his job.

But chill has a very profound affect on me as well and D/D ele is the medi hard counter, partly because of such. Most medi guards do not carry anything that reduces its CD’s. Chill is a very profound problem if other things are on cooldown to counter it.

There is just not a very reliable counter to chill for medi that I can always get rid of the penalty whenever I want to. Ohh well what to do.

nightblood.7910:

1. It affects my weapon skills, some of them being just as important as yours. Why exactly do I not have immunity to chill in my weapon sets?

Because you don’t have initiative. Why can’t Thieves have two separate initiative bars for each weapon set and have the first weapon set recharge while they use the other one? What do you not understand about this?

Stealth cant be read.

Wrong. D/P stealth is the most telegraphed and interruptable action in GW2. Cloak and Dagger is a lot faster but it also requires melee range, has a 0.5 second cast, and is rarely used to gain stealth since any random blind, evade, teleport, etc will leave the Thief so drained of initiative that they have to immediately focus on leaving and resetting the fight.

While that is an advantage to you, I dont think it should be completely taken away. I said light fields should reveal stealth, can you imagine the problem of catching a thief in a light field while in stealth. It wouldnt be easy. Its a very minor change to stealth.

Listen dude, you clearly have no idea how Thieves work, because the two most common light fields in the game would each be a perfect hard counter to the two common forms of gaining stealth. If a Thief CnDs a guard, the guard GS 4’s instantly and reveals the thief. If a Thief drops black powder, a staff 3 would negate the stealth attempt.

Here’s a video of a (to my knowledge) non-pro Meditation Guardian fighting that same Thief that plays for one of the best GW2 teams.

Thieves are not the problem. You are the problem.

I’m still trying to grasp how the thief was doing huge burst and condi damage to you with a sword. I’m probably the last person who would defend thieves on this forum, but in this case i’d have to say you guys just didnt understand the class you were fighting against too well and just got outplayed.

Power based thieves arent much of a threat these days anyway since the ferocity nerf. Its the p/d condi spam thieves that are op as hell. But thats not a problem of just thieves alone. condis are overpowered in small scale fights in general and all classes have some ez mode cheese condi build with crap like perplexity runes and dire stats only making it worse.

Once agian, Im not arguing for guard as much as other classes. I can also show you videos of power thief owning medi guards, two back to back in the same area.

Yes you would have to rethink your attack process on guard, more importantly is how guard would affect you in more than a 1v1. In a 5v5 for example.

Yes Im very well aware of thieves not being the biggest problem to medi guard, I personally do not have a huge problem with them 1v1 except that closing the deal when they get away is not always an option for me. Yes in a duel where running away is not an option, and they pretty much have to attack, yeah its going to be gg or Im doing something wrong.

But stealth allows thieves to harass, that may not be you specifically, but youre ability to run away rather than die is more of a problem than you think.

I also think chill affecting you properly would end that problem (medi guards dont have chill) as well as reveal. You would have to dedicate yourself to win or die, not well Ive changed my mind.

Thus making you think twice about harassing people just because you can always get away.

Not to mention both of those symbols have cooldowns. You act like its a guaranteed thing. Its not always a guaranteed thing that the guard will not be on cool down with symbols. Theyre not thieves, they have cooldowns.

Secondly, thieves have dazes off guards, there will be no ability to even use that symbol when you daze me and then cnd off me before I ever even get the chance to do anything. As the many times this has happened over and over again when you attack from behind as Im moving to where ever I am going.

Dont even act like you guys dont do that to a guard. Run up behind them, attack, daze them, then CND. Yeah you already have an immediate counter to gs 4.

nightblood.7910:

….
But stealth allows thieves to harass, that may not be you specifically, but youre ability to run away rather than die is more of a problem than you think.
…

Can you explain how running away is a problem?

Zero Day.2594:

nightblood.7910:

….
But stealth allows thieves to harass, that may not be you specifically, but youre ability to run away rather than die is more of a problem than you think.
…

Can you explain how running away is a problem?

If i can comment: it is just not running away is a problem but it is the advantage of re-stealth is. Running away + stealth give thief huge advantage of reset fight anytime want.

Yes! i have problem with warrior doing same thing, so it is not just thief but the way Arena net design the class: which is very poor design.

Even thief player in my server say all the time that thief class is a boring class: because that is all they do- run, run, stealth, repeat. If i play thief class and was doing same: i would feel same way too

For other class who want to challenge thief who do that: get bored also and leave/quit game. Why do you think China player leave and quit game? Yes same, boring and no challenge: same thing over and over-repeat.

It is not bad thing for thief or any class to run away but to always have that option anytime they want: make it a problem, frustrate and boring.

Wvw is a place to Battle: if other class want to battle thief and thief decide to run away and battle a bit and run away and battle a bit: where is sense for thief be in wvw?
It do not make sense at all. That is also main reason why when i use very little time for wvw and pvp because of thief exception design. Arena net create a world for class to battle but give only exception to thief and some class to do whatever they want: very terrible design.

Other class player are not stupid: they see that and leave game for other game company who do not make exception. Thief is not the only class in the game but the way Arena net design thief class; that is exactly what they want and that is not right!

I hope you understand

Zero Day.2594:

nightblood.7910:

….
But stealth allows thieves to harass, that may not be you specifically, but youre ability to run away rather than die is more of a problem than you think.
…

Can you explain how running away is a problem?

As the above poster said, many classes depend on cool downs, your ability to stealth get away before dieing and come back quickly without cooldowns gives you a very very clear advantage. Like I said, in the duel you lose that advantage because who duels and runs away and who duels in places where I have to come hunt you down? I know where you are in a duel,I know you are someplace close, I know youre coming soon, Im in that duel to the end myself. Thats as completely different ballgame.

Not to mention how quickly in sPvP when you get in trouble, youre able to let go of that fight to add into another fight instead of being downed like you should have been if you were outplayed. If you were not so enabled to run away, you would be points scored by the better fighter, not get away and turn that into points scored for your team.

Also understand this conversation went to medi guard vs power thief because medi guard is a problem for power thief and somehow its a rebuttle to the bigger picture. Thats a very isolated conversation far away from the bigger picture.

And to note, the biggest problem I have in game with another toon in a fight is a D/D ele. I dont complain about them.

I do complain about medi guard reliance on energy sigils as vigorous precision is broken for medi. (first hit vigor), If I could run doom sigils instead, I dont even think that would be an impossible fight though still difficult.

DarkSyze.8627:

If i can comment: it is just not running away is a problem but it is the advantage of re-stealth is. Running away + stealth give thief huge advantage of reset fight anytime want.

Yes! i have problem with warrior doing same thing, so it is not just thief but the way Arena net design the class: which is very poor design.

Even thief player in my server say all the time that thief class is a boring class: because that is all they do- run, run, stealth, repeat. If i play thief class and was doing same: i would feel same way too

For other class who want to challenge thief who do that: get bored also and leave/quit game.

It is not bad thing for thief or any class to run away but to always have that option anytime they want: make it a problem, frustrate and boring.

Wvw is a place to Battle: if other class want to battle thief and thief decide to run away and battle a bit and run away and battle a bit: where is sense for thief be in wvw?
It do not make sense at all.

“World versus World (also known as WvW) is a Player versus Player game mode where players from three different servers, or worlds, battle in the Mists.

I hope you understand

What are the objectives of WvW? “Battle in the Mists” is a bit non-specific, there are some overarching objectives to WvW. Choosing to do other things is at your own discretion.

nightblood.7910:

As the above poster said, many classes depend on cool downs, your ability to stealth get away before dieing and come back quickly without cooldowns gives you a very very clear advantage. Like I said, in the duel you lose that advantage because who duels and runs away and who duels in places where I have to come hunt you down? I know where you are in a duel,I know you are someplace close, I know youre coming soon, Im in that duel to the end myself. Thats as completely different ballgame.

Not to mention how quickly in sPvP when you get in trouble, youre able to let go of that fight to add into another fight instead of being downed like you should have been if you were outplayed. If you were not so enabled to run away, you would be points scored by the better fighter, not get away and turn that into points scored for your team.

Also understand this conversation went to medi guard vs power thief because medi guard is a problem for power thief and somehow its a rebuttle to the bigger picture. Thats a very isolated conversation far away from the bigger picture.

Your notion of a duel, or a fight, might not be the same as the person that’s engaging you.
The means/tactics by which the opponent might attempt kill you are also probably not the same as yours. I don’t mean the skills/class difference, I mean the means/tactics employed by the player (say waiting for you to be low on HP, or afk, or other scenarios).

The plus 1’ing fights/making them unfair in sPvP, that’s what the class is meant for, or should I say one of the roles it does (plus 1’ing fights, and back capping). (This is the only part specific to thieves)

The not being able to run away bit when “outplayed” doesn’t really apply in this situation, as their intention is to kill/get points and not to die, by no means are they engaging you in a to-death-fight (a “duel”). If you’re fighting to the death in sPvP, and you know your death is certain and you’re not running away even though there is a clear way out, (as “honorable” as it is) you’re doing it wrong – at the end all that matters is the points, you died because you didn’t run away and so you granted your opponent points. They ran, escaped death, preventing you from getting points and likewise receiving any.

“Also understand this conversation went to medi guard vs power thief ", our conversation (between you and I) was never about thieves or any class in particular. The only place where I do talk about thieves I’ve clearly put (This is the only part specific to thieves) so you don’t assume everything else is thieves related. I just asked a simple question of why running away is a problem.

morbidillusion.2759:

Sinbold.8723:

Great ideas, nightblood.7910!!! It never occurred to me about chill and interrupts, but you have a point.

Have to say I hate the idea that we need to carry a “trap” that costs 15 silver and some badges of honor if we want to reveal a thief. What kind of poo is that? Light fields revealing stealth would be an excellent addition to the game.

Just gonna go ahead and call out nightblood.7910 for being the guy who whined about thieves for a couple days in the thief forums. Then someone told him to make a video of him playing thief in PvP and he posted this less than one day later:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/So-I-kinda-Rescind/first#post4881370

This guy’s posts are pure comedy. You should be embarrassed to agree with him.

If you are losing to Thieves 1v1 and you’re not a mesmer, it’s because you’re bad.

Try fighting a d/p+p/d perplex dire condition thief for a change. The good ones are not only durable, but almost with 99% escape chance and insane chasing potential. You can’t spike him, condition wouldn’t touch him thanks to shadow art, and you’ll always eat 8 stack of confusion before you cleanse, and he will literally CHASE YOU FOREVER while having 100% chance to disengage and come back with full health.

It is by far the worst build ever created in WvW, and should not exist at all. There shouldn’t be a build that can be durable, doing very reliable condition damage, WHILE having the ability to 100% disengage AND able to outrun anyone. (Hell, good thieves don’t even bother about sick-em either, all they need to do is use shadowstep and make 1200 range gap instantly and then go into stealth, boom, your target is lost and he’ll come back with full health and chase you down later right after his cd is back, while yours are most likely on CD)

@ Zero Day.2594 youre right about the conversation part, I was more stating that as the enitre thread went immediately to medi vs power thief. I am being confronted about this by 2 people here.

As far as running away from a fight when you get outplayed as being the point, I agree, the problem is you are too enabled there, more so enabled than others. I never stated you should always fight to the death and get killed out of honor, Im saying that there should definitely be more ways to keep you from getting away so easily. I never said you did something dishonorable or even cheap other than the fact that its cheaply given to you through a mechanic that there is few counters to.

And I actually said what you said in my post. Duels are one thing, something completely different than game play. Yes I can reck you in a duel for the most part, that doesnt mean anything to the game play or your advantages in said game play. I completely agree with you on that.

nightblood.7910:

…

And I actually said what you said in my post. Duels are one thing, something completely different than game play. Yes I can reck you in a duel for the most part, that doesnt mean anything to the game play or your advantages in said game play. I completely agree with you on that.

Glad you see it that way.

I do not buy the OP argument about thieves. Sure, some of these mechanic s are strong in 1v1 fights. Last I checked, this WvW. It is neither designed around being balanced, nor is it designed around 1v1 fight. I would argue that theives are generally under powered in the vast majority of WvW fights.

some of you, in my opinion, need to stop blindly complaining about the vessel on a general scale here. This is not a thief discussion section. It is a WvW section. I have seen almost nothing that supports thieves as OP inWvW. For that matter, most of you are completely off topic, by discussing thieves outside of the scope of WvW.

coglin.1867:

I do not buy the OP argument about thieves. Sure, some of these mechanic s are strong in 1v1 fights. Last I checked, this WvW. It is neither designed around being balanced, nor is it designed around 1v1 fight. I would argue that theives are generally under powered in the vast majority of WvW fights.

some of you, in my opinion, need to stop blindly complaining about the vessel on a general scale here. This is not a thief discussion section. It is a WvW section. I have seen almost nothing that supports thieves as OP inWvW. For that matter, most of you are completely off topic, by discussing thieves outside of the scope of WvW.

Guess you either never fight a dire perplex condition thief, or you’re the one who’s playing it. I don’t mind the burst thief too much because they’re more like high risk high reward, but the dire perplex thief is just no risk high reward, and way too cheesy, and the mobility and durability is insane. Basically they can trait for full defensive while their runes and food (+40% condition duration food says hi) do all the work for them.
The regular burst thieves have to make trade off between dps and survivability, while dire perplex condition thief faces no trade-off.

I’m all for thieves having mechanic in zerg fight, but in 1 v 1 they’re just broken in so many ways.

Toxsa.2701:

coglin.1867:

I do not buy the OP argument about thieves. Sure, some of these mechanic s are strong in 1v1 fights. Last I checked, this WvW. It is neither designed around being balanced, nor is it designed around 1v1 fight. I would argue that theives are generally under powered in the vast majority of WvW fights.

some of you, in my opinion, need to stop blindly complaining about the vessel on a general scale here. This is not a thief discussion section. It is a WvW section. I have seen almost nothing that supports thieves as OP inWvW. For that matter, most of you are completely off topic, by discussing thieves outside of the scope of WvW.

Guess you either never fight a dire perplex condition thief, or you’re the one who’s playing it. I don’t mind the burst thief too much because they’re more like high risk high reward, but the dire perplex thief is just no risk high reward, and way too cheesy, and the mobility and durability is insane. Basically they can trait for full defensive while their runes and food (+40% condition duration food says hi) do all the work for them.
The regular burst thieves have to make trade off between dps and survivability, while dire perplex condition thief faces no trade-off.

I’m all for thieves having mechanic in zerg fight, but in 1 v 1 they’re just broken in so many ways.

Well you are entitled to make all the wrong “guesses” you like.

Not particularly certain why you reference 1v1 in a WvW discussion. The fact that they have stated since before release that WvW is not intended to be balanced, and that no aspect of the game is balanced around 1v1 at all, kind of completely nullifies that pointless argument.

I have had an 80 of every profession that I leveled primarily in WvW, since about the first April after release. I generally have played my engineer exclusively since. I leveled the professions to see which one I wanted to play, as well as to learn how they play. It increased my ability to fight other professions exponentially.

As I see it, for you to demand to tell me what my personal experiences are, then to go one to push the idea that they are OP, suggest to me, that you have difficulty distinguishing the difference between subjective opinion and objective fact.

if you think you can prove to me they are OP, the only way you can do that is to level one and prove it to me by destroying me on my engineer. Or bring one in your guild group against my guild group. If you wish to do so, I am certainly interested. So how long will it take you to level a thief? I can show you that conditions are fairly easy to deal with in WvW. So much so that in most encounters, with all of the cleansing, I feel conditions are neutered completely.

I have to say, I keep hearing that the thief class will be unplayable if there is significant counter to stealth or any thing it does for that matter.

I play a mediguard.

Were squishy as can be. I run at best 2.6K AC and Ive even reduced my health back down to at best 15K.

Slow as molasses. If we take speed from traveler runes we give up a ton of power that we get from other runes.

Our skills are probably the most telegraphed in game. You can see agies.

Our teleports are not half as able as thieves.

We have no stealth at all.

We actually have cooldowns on our weapons and we are affected by chill and interrupts.

Two protection’s in any given fight.

One invul for a few seconds that we cant do anything else but run through stuff with.

We dont have half the CC’s available to thieves.

We cant do half the damage in a single hit that thieves are capable of.

Have no where close to the evasion skills thieves have.

Our best defense are blocks and blinds and well this is the number of counters to our defenses.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Unblockable

From every single class.

Yet, I still find a way to be significant in this game, kill more than get killed, and play the heck out of it.

I keep hearing how if one of these things are changed on a thief it will be unplayable, yet we manage to play without half of it every single day.

How many hours do you have on your level 80 thief nightblood?

nightblood.7910:

I have to say, I keep hearing that the thief class will be unplayable if there is significant counter to stealth or any thing it does for that matter.

I play a mediguard.

Were squishy as can be. I run at best 2.6K AC and Ive even reduced my health back down to at best 15K.

Slow as molasses. If we take speed from traveler runes we give up a ton of power that we get from other runes.

Our skills are probably the most telegraphed in game. You can see agies.

Our teleports are not half as able as thieves.

We have no stealth at all.

We actually have cooldowns on our weapons and we are affected by chill and interrupts.

Two protection’s in any given fight.

One invul for a few seconds that we cant do anything else but run through stuff with.

We dont have half the CC’s available to thieves.

We cant do half the damage in a single hit that thieves are capable of.

Have no where close to the evasion skills thieves have.

Our best defense are blocks and blinds and well this is the number of counters to our defenses.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Unblockable

From every single class.

Yet, I still find a way to be significant in this game, kill more than get killed, and play the heck out of it.

I keep hearing how if one of these things are changed on a thief it will be unplayable, yet we manage to play without half of it every single day.

I don’t see whats the problem. Medi guards should be able to kill thieves easily without even trying (only if they play power) because guards can do damage output with smite condition along with greatsword and air/fire sigil procs, easily taking out over 50% of a thiefs hp with one burst (applies to non dire thieves).

As for the complaint of the lack of protection and invul… that’s just you being bad. I know some guardian from Jade Quarry who can fight conditions builds with power medi zerker build with ease. First you need to know what spec the thief is running, thats how you decide what method of fighting you’ll use. If the thief is running sword dagger, you need to use your blocks carefully and predict when is he going to daze you. It’s how thieves fight other thieves after all, experience to evade their hits and do burst damage. Same idea when you vs other classes, you need to play different tactics depending on their build and spec.

Of course, the good thieves would take a while to kill, if not be unable to kill them at all (run away). However, thats the thief’s mechanic though, they are build advantageously for 1 v 1, where experience matters the most. I’m pretty sure you should know that all bad thiefs will die easily to everything else, while a good thief can manage 1 v 1 easily. If you can’t win with medi guard (a hard counter to thief) then it’s an issue of your experience in playing a thief. If a thief is playing d/d, and he stealths with full hp, you can assume hes going to try to backstab you instantly, if he’s not in good shape with his health bar, he’ll likely wait for 3 seconds then backstab you to regen hp.

And yes, based on the good guardian’s I know, and from what I’ve summed up, Guardians are the strongest in 1 v 1 when it comes to power vs power. You just need to time your blocks and kite depending on what you vs and then apply pressure to them with high dps. You should go to Tier 1 servers and learn how to run away because the guardians I know can outrun thieves.

My mez kills thieves like this fast and easy.
Full trapper has no problem.

Perhaps he was hacking.
This is common in servers we face.

Or, troll him back like this guy:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7MOwQzRj5IE&list=UU_c5me8szrav_8syKKweGew
He kept 10-20 of us busy for hours.