Guild Wars 2

Originaly it was stated that the new map will be in rotation with old bl maps. Latest news says it will entirely replace bl maps. Why is that????

it will only be permanent at first for a while when it is the new shiny thing on the block, then probably depending on feedback they will figure out some way to rotate between Alpine & Desert until enough time passes for them to get a 3rd jungle theme map done so the borderlands can each be a unique map like players have been whining for that since before EotM.

It does make you wonder tho what we could have had instead of new maps since apparently we can’t get both new maps and WvW updates and it takes over a year for them to get new WvW map tested. ><

Obvious reason: Marketing.
“Hey look, we have this cool map in the game, buy it please.”

Further reasons:
- Pseudo released open beta, to check stability, gain feedback from the whole community and actively improve / rework stuff in the first couple of months.
- Because the Alpine Borderland currently is a buggy mess, and would let a-net look bad to new customers.
- Because the Alpine Borderland currently is a buggy mess, and needs a complete overhaul before it comes back into the game.
- The new borderland will feature complete new mechanics and maybe shift the meta, therefore having the same map everywhere helps to settle the new meta for all Servers.

Hidden reason:
- Many MMO’s feature WvW-like content now, so GW2 tries to refresh the game-mode with new ideas, to get better reviews. Currently WvW in GW2 is overall perceived with mixed feelings, especially since there are many games who offer similar / better large-scale PvP. A-net simply tries to get that little something back which will make GW2 to the unique experience again which it was to the time of its launch 3 years ago, more so because WvW back then was one of its main selling-points.
The Industry finally did catch up…

WvW is not really a new feature given it was copied from DAoC RvRvR which is some 15 years old.

Arctisavange.7260:

Originaly it was stated that the new map will be in rotation with old bl maps. Latest news says it will entirely replace bl maps. Why is that????

Testing it for a longer period of time i guess. Beta Tests are good, but they won’t be enough to find all the bugs/problems with a map. They will probably go back to rotating it after seeing how good/bad the resonance within the community is.

- let’s just hope the Rotation won’t work as the current PvP Daily for winning a game on certain classes…. With the Alpine Borderland being the Mesmer

Arantheal.7396:

(…)

Further reasons:
- Pseudo released open beta, to check stability, gain feedback from the whole community and actively improve / rework stuff in the first couple of months.
- Because the Alpine Borderland currently is a buggy mess, and would let a-net look bad to new customers.
- Because the Alpine Borderland currently is a buggy mess, and needs a complete overhaul before it comes back into the game.
(…)

Kinda confused about that one. During the time i’ve played the game (which is mostly WvW) i’ve never been stuck inside something once (except from Mesmer-Teleports, which did not have anything to do with the map itself), and i’ve never seen anyone use exploits within the EU Matchups i participated in – although i never tried finding any, so i guess there could be glitches into Towers/Keeps. What bugs are you referring to?

- The new borderland will feature complete new mechanics and maybe shift the meta, therefore having the same map everywhere helps to settle the new meta for all Servers.

As far as i can see, it will also bring a piece of EotM into “real” WvW, despite the obvious disdain displayed by most players here towards EotM (yeah yeah, this Forum is only the “vocal minority”, thanks devs!) – namely, putting in more PvE Elements and kitten artificial advantages imbalancing the fight for capping certain Elements on the Map.

Hidden reason:
- Many MMO’s feature WvW-like content now, so GW2 tries to refresh the game-mode with new ideas, to get better reviews. Currently WvW in GW2 is overall perceived with mixed feelings, especially since there are many games who offer similar / better large-scale PvP. A-net simply tries to get that little something back which will make GW2 to the unique experience again which it was to the time of its launch 3 years ago, more so because WvW back then was one of its main selling-points.
The Industry finally did catch up…

Yeah, i could see a-net thinking that way. Screw the WvW-Players (excluding EotMers here), better lure new ones to GW Honestly, i think if i were a beginner, and had never experienced the current, barely PvEish Maps, i would probably like EotM-Style maps; the concept isn’t that bad, it’s just that many of us got used to WvW being a place where we can simply fight other players without having to worry much about PvEBonuses or NPC’s – and prefer it that way.

In fact, i think the new Map’s Design looks stunning and far more interesting than the current, rather plain Borderland – but all the PvE stuff will probably lead to me limiting myself to EB instead. While i like the vertical design quite much, it also heavily favors the current heavy Professions, which have a “fire and forget” access to stability and nice knockbacks at the same time (guess i will not attempt to pass a bridge with a melee train on it, even with the “nerf” to stability. Not wanting a Guardian Hammer to my face)…then again, pulling/pushing people of edges might be fun >:D

phirefox.2568:

Arantheal.7396:

(…)

Further reasons:
- Pseudo released open beta, to check stability, gain feedback from the whole community and actively improve / rework stuff in the first couple of months.
- Because the Alpine Borderland currently is a buggy mess, and would let a-net look bad to new customers.
- Because the Alpine Borderland currently is a buggy mess, and needs a complete overhaul before it comes back into the game.
(…)

Kinda confused about that one. During the time i’ve played the game (which is mostly WvW) i’ve never been stuck inside something once (except from Mesmer-Teleports, which did not have anything to do with the map itself), and i’ve never seen anyone use exploits within the EU Matchups i participated in – although i never tried finding any, so i guess there could be glitches into Towers/Keeps. What bugs are you referring to?

- Inner garry watergate does not scale with upgrades.
- the pathing of projectiles is broken for inner watergate as well, making you shoot the ground instead of hitting it.
- hills lord can bug out and prevent you from claiming the keep permanently.
- dollies will randomly refuse to walk to their designation and just camp in the camp.
- dolly-guards kill sentries.
- dollies without guards just walk trough sentries alive.
- siege can be placed in the siege-locked (and invulnerable) areas at spawn using certain camera-angles.
- the upgrade que in the event display can easily bug out, showing false info on ongoing (or finished) upgrades.
- there are still ways to break out of the map and attack players from below without using any 3rd party software.
- there are still ways to skip the walls of certain keeps/towers without using any 3rd party software.

Arantheal.7396:

phirefox.2568:

Arantheal.7396:

(…)

Further reasons:
- Pseudo released open beta, to check stability, gain feedback from the whole community and actively improve / rework stuff in the first couple of months.
- Because the Alpine Borderland currently is a buggy mess, and would let a-net look bad to new customers.
- Because the Alpine Borderland currently is a buggy mess, and needs a complete overhaul before it comes back into the game.
(…)

Kinda confused about that one. During the time i’ve played the game (which is mostly WvW) i’ve never been stuck inside something once (except from Mesmer-Teleports, which did not have anything to do with the map itself), and i’ve never seen anyone use exploits within the EU Matchups i participated in – although i never tried finding any, so i guess there could be glitches into Towers/Keeps. What bugs are you referring to?

- Inner garry watergate does not scale with upgrades.
- the pathing of projectiles is broken for inner watergate as well, making you shoot the ground instead of hitting it.
- hills lord can bug out and prevent you from claiming the keep permanently.
- dollies will randomly refuse to walk to their designation and just camp in the camp.
- dolly-guards kill sentries.
- dollies without guards just walk trough sentries alive.
- siege can be placed in the siege-locked (and invulnerable) areas at spawn using certain camera-angles.
- the upgrade que in the event display can easily bug out, showing false info on ongoing (or finished) upgrades.
- there are still ways to break out of the map and attack players from below without using any 3rd party software.
- there are still ways to skip the walls of certain keeps/towers without using any 3rd party software.

Not all of these are bugs. Garrison WG is the same on each bl, Dolyaks stay in camps when you don’t own the structure they’re supposed to go to, sentries are bound to die to Dolyak guards since it’s 2v1 plus the sentry is bound to target the doly first since it’s usually ahead of the guards, and sentries aren’t really set up to kill dolys solo.

Alpine maps ain’t coming back to regular rotation, only possible special tournaments….

Tspatula.9086:

Alpine maps ain’t coming back to regular rotation, only possible special tournaments….

Got a link to that?

It was in one of the interviews or the POI/ready up videos that is on twitch. Basically they said that the desert map is replacing alpine and that the Alpine map might, and I stress might, return in the form of a special tournament or something like that, which I interpret as essentially never….
*edit
it might be in this one:
http://www.twitch.tv/guildwars2/b/642258148

Tspatula.9086:

It was in one of the interviews or the POI/ready up videos that is on twitch. Basically they said that the desert map is replacing alpine and that the Alpine map might, and I stress might, return in the form of a special tournament or something like that, which I interpret as essentially never….
*edit
it might be in this one:
http://www.twitch.tv/guildwars2/b/642258148

“Even though this will initially replace the existing Borderlands, we have plans to bring back the classic alpine Borderlands. "

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/essential-elements-of-the-new-borderlands/

Ultimaistanza.4793:

Tspatula.9086:

It was in one of the interviews or the POI/ready up videos that is on twitch. Basically they said that the desert map is replacing alpine and that the Alpine map might, and I stress might, return in the form of a special tournament or something like that, which I interpret as essentially never….
*edit
it might be in this one:
http://www.twitch.tv/guildwars2/b/642258148

“Even though this will initially replace the existing Borderlands, we have plans to bring back the classic alpine Borderlands. More information on that will come in the future.”

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/essential-elements-of-the-new-borderlands/

Fixed. I guess it just depends on what you consider “the future” to be, and there was definitely at least one dev who said, “as a special tournament or something like that” which would not in any way contradict what you have quoted…

Ultimaistanza.4793:

Arantheal.7396:

phirefox.2568:

Arantheal.7396:

(…)

Further reasons:
- Pseudo released open beta, to check stability, gain feedback from the whole community and actively improve / rework stuff in the first couple of months.
- Because the Alpine Borderland currently is a buggy mess, and would let a-net look bad to new customers.
- Because the Alpine Borderland currently is a buggy mess, and needs a complete overhaul before it comes back into the game.
(…)

Kinda confused about that one. During the time i’ve played the game (which is mostly WvW) i’ve never been stuck inside something once (except from Mesmer-Teleports, which did not have anything to do with the map itself), and i’ve never seen anyone use exploits within the EU Matchups i participated in – although i never tried finding any, so i guess there could be glitches into Towers/Keeps. What bugs are you referring to?

- Inner garry watergate does not scale with upgrades.
- the pathing of projectiles is broken for inner watergate as well, making you shoot the ground instead of hitting it.
- hills lord can bug out and prevent you from claiming the keep permanently.
- dollies will randomly refuse to walk to their designation and just camp in the camp.
- dolly-guards kill sentries.
- dollies without guards just walk trough sentries alive.
- siege can be placed in the siege-locked (and invulnerable) areas at spawn using certain camera-angles.
- the upgrade que in the event display can easily bug out, showing false info on ongoing (or finished) upgrades.
- there are still ways to break out of the map and attack players from below without using any 3rd party software.
- there are still ways to skip the walls of certain keeps/towers without using any 3rd party software.

Not all of these are bugs. Garrison WG is the same on each bl, Dolyaks stay in camps when you don’t own the structure they’re supposed to go to, sentries are bound to die to Dolyak guards since it’s 2v1 plus the sentry is bound to target the doly first since it’s usually ahead of the guards, and sentries aren’t really set up to kill dolys solo.

-I know that every borderland water-gate is bugged. Yes, all suffer equally from this bug, so you can call it balanced. still it’s a bug.
-I know that dollies will not move when you don’t own the target structure. Still they rarely bug out and stay in the camp even if the whole map belongs to one Server.
-Taking a sentry should cut supply-delivery. It does in EB, it should on the borders as well. That is one of the day 1 bugs in WvW or really counter-intuitive map-design that will hopefully not return for the new maps.

Arantheal.7396:

-Taking a sentry should cut supply-delivery. It does in EB, it should on the borders as well. That is one of the day 1 bugs in WvW or really counter-intuitive map-design that will hopefully not return for the new maps.

Sentries in eb don’t stop supply deliveries by themselves. The thing that stops them is the types of mobs that spawn , the mercenary units around, and the sentry’s proximity to towers.

The EB mobs are far superior to those in the bl — with things like harpies that spawn on Golanta to Aldons side have range and cripple meaning they can have further agro range and can pummel on a dolyak for longer, or ones like the krait between Danelon and QL that do mass conditions and cc --.

For the mercenary units, they can easily go in there and mob a doly down when they’re going into raiding a camp and, in the case of the dredge, provide a stationary stun turret that will pew the dolyak and allow for the random mobs to finish it off.

Lastly, the map itself has dolyaks staying in combat more in eb than the regular bls because of how close sentries are to towers and mob spawns, and keeping their health from resetting.

Tspatula.9086:

Fixed. I guess it just depends on what you consider “the future” to be, and there was definitely at least one dev who said, “as a special tournament or something like that” which would not in any way contradict what you have quoted…

So basically, they’re going to get multiple “new content!” out of the new BL: first when the BL comes out, and then every time they do a tournament with “return of the old BL!”

This way they can milk the small amount of work they put into WvW as much as possible.

The impression that I’m getting is that they will look at map rotation and possibly changing the Alpine map after HoT is out.

They need to update the Alpine map and give us 3 different borderland maps: EOTM, Alpine and Desert.

Then they can remove EOTM from the overflow karma train and repopulate the servers below tier 1 and 2.

Xillllix.3485:

They need to update the Alpine map and give us 3 different borderland maps: EOTM, Alpine and Desert.

Then they can remove EOTM from the overflow karma train and repopulate the servers below tier 1 and 2.

That wouldnt be balanced imo. The reason is because its very easy take an hold an entire alpine map and forsake the other two alpine borders numbers wise. In lower tiers unlike higher tiers (if you guys still do this) each server holds their entire home border while higher tiers especially on reset hold their corner of each alpine map. The new desert border clearly makes it easy to defend your corner of the map with the topography, I think if they introduce all 3 the server who has alpine as their home border will have a huge advantage because the server with desert as their home will find it very difficult to take and hold the entire border.

Zetsumei.4975:

Xillllix.3485:

They need to update the Alpine map and give us 3 different borderland maps: EOTM, Alpine and Desert.

Then they can remove EOTM from the overflow karma train and repopulate the servers below tier 1 and 2.

That wouldnt be balanced imo. The reason is because its very easy take an hold an entire alpine map and forsake the other two alpine borders numbers wise. In lower tiers unlike higher tiers (if you guys still do this) each server holds their entire home border while higher tiers especially on reset hold their corner of each alpine map. The new desert border clearly makes it easy to defend your corner of the map with the topography, I think if they introduce all 3 the server who has alpine as their home border will have a huge advantage because the server with desert as their home will find it very difficult to take and hold the entire border.

That’s why they also need to change the scoring system… I think they should merge all servers into 3 alliances and have “overflows” of the 4 maps as campaigns you can guest on. The amount of campaigns would change every week according to the population during the previous week. If you guest to another campaign than your main campaign you contribute to their score but do not get WxP.

This is what ESO does and it works from a population perspective.

Xillllix.3485:

Zetsumei.4975:

Xillllix.3485:

They need to update the Alpine map and give us 3 different borderland maps: EOTM, Alpine and Desert.

Then they can remove EOTM from the overflow karma train and repopulate the servers below tier 1 and 2.

That wouldnt be balanced imo. The reason is because its very easy take an hold an entire alpine map and forsake the other two alpine borders numbers wise. In lower tiers unlike higher tiers (if you guys still do this) each server holds their entire home border while higher tiers especially on reset hold their corner of each alpine map. The new desert border clearly makes it easy to defend your corner of the map with the topography, I think if they introduce all 3 the server who has alpine as their home border will have a huge advantage because the server with desert as their home will find it very difficult to take and hold the entire border.

That’s why they also need to change the scoring system… I think they should merge all servers into 3 alliances and have “overflows” of the 4 maps as campaigns you can guest on. The amount of campaigns would change every week according to the population during the previous week. If you guest to another campaign than your main campaign you contribute to their score but do not get WxP.

This is what ESO does and it works from a population perspective.

It may work for ESO but I only see this causing more harm than good for GW2. By merging the servers into the three colors and putting everyone in overflows you lose the sense of WvW comradery , create a make a messy situation when trying to coordinate with the different overflows and voice coms, and the sense of importance in taking and defending is diluted with the volume of copy&paste maps.

Ultimaistanza.4793:

By merging the servers into the three colors and putting everyone in overflows you lose the sense of WvW comradery…

^ This right here. ^

I only got into WvW because of the realm-mates I’ve met while finishing map exploration. I feel like server-pride is a lot more meaningful than color-pride.