Guild Wars 2

Zergs are now 90% heavies…..Seeing zergs of 50 hammers blobbing into each other with no deaths on either side. Really anet? Every patch you make ends up empowering the hammer trains. No need for reflection, they don’t shoot anything. No need to kite as they run faster than your casters can cast. It is boring to play that but these idiots will run what wins. Someone needs to call arena net out as incapable of proper design.

don’t worry stability nerf inc in next month. it will get rid of most frontline and we will all be rangers pewpewing from 1200 yards.

/end sarcasm

A hammer train with 80% heaves will find itself in a TIGHT spot against a heavy train with 60% hammers and 40% damage backliners

Stab nerf might help a little bit. They will go from imune to cc to just very strong against cc.

If you are having problems with hammertrains, then you need more Necromancers, and to dodge roll.

That is the end of it.

I don’t think there is “WvW design.” The devs design for PvP and for PvE open world. However that affects WvW gameplay is however that affects WvW gameplay.

As for stability nerf, it’s going to be bad. Looking at past history, we can extrapolate that:

1. It will be balanced for PvP, and so unbalanced for WvW — particularly bigger vs smaller fights.
2. Even if they attempt to balance for WvW (by splitting the behavior of stability in PvP and WvW), they will fail on the first try and it will be 6 months until the next balance patch.
3. And in that next patch, they will try to fix the problem by nerfing other skills — CCs — for example, instead of directly addressing the problem…. creating even more problems.

Lord Kuru.3685:

I don’t think there is “WvW design.” The devs design for PvP and for PvE open world. However that affects WvW gameplay is however that affects WvW gameplay.

As for stability nerf, it’s going to be bad. Looking at past history, we can extrapolate that:

1. It will be balanced for PvP, and so unbalanced for WvW — particularly bigger vs smaller fights.
2. Even if they attempt to balance for WvW (by splitting the behavior of stability in PvP and WvW), they will fail on the first try and it will be 6 months until the next balance patch.
3. And in that next patch, they will try to fix the problem by nerfing other skills — CCs — for example, instead of directly addressing the problem…. creating even more problems.

Do you even pvp bro? You might be misinformed. You could see on PoI that the revenant got 5 stacks of stability out of a really short CD skill. In spvp, no one will waste 5 cc abilities just to get rid of a stab. They’ll just strip it with a thief, mesmer or necro.

So it appears to be a WvW balance change! I’ll remain cautious, but that could be a very good change. It won’t hurt spvp, but in WvW we could see zerg fights being more skill based, and more inclusive. What will you do with your guardians? Stack up to 25 stacks before pushing, preparing for hard cc? Or progressively burn through your stabs one guardian at a time, for a longer duration at the risk of being burst cced?

Some new builds might enter the zerg meta, the infamous GWEN. Venom share thief, to rip off the enemies’ stab with elite venom. Mesmers, to drop them chaos storms on the zerg and daze everyone. Necro fear walls! Slick Shoes engis! The days of spamming one, blindingly following the tag, my-blob-is-bigger-so-I-win are maybe finally over? Real pvp in WvW, can you imagine? Communication will be more important than ever, and the best guilds will finally be taken seriously by these spvp snobs! What a time to be alive.

It looks more like a wvw/pve change than a spvp one.

Sorel.4870:

Lord Kuru.3685:

I don’t think there is “WvW design.” The devs design for PvP and for PvE open world. However that affects WvW gameplay is however that affects WvW gameplay.

As for stability nerf, it’s going to be bad. Looking at past history, we can extrapolate that:

1. It will be balanced for PvP, and so unbalanced for WvW — particularly bigger vs smaller fights.
2. Even if they attempt to balance for WvW (by splitting the behavior of stability in PvP and WvW), they will fail on the first try and it will be 6 months until the next balance patch.
3. And in that next patch, they will try to fix the problem by nerfing other skills — CCs — for example, instead of directly addressing the problem…. creating even more problems.

Do you even pvp bro? You might be misinformed. You could see on PoI that the revenant got 5 stacks of stability out of a really short CD skill. In spvp, no one will waste 5 cc abilities just to get rid of a stab. They’ll just strip it with a thief, mesmer or necro.

So it appears to be a WvW balance change! I’ll remain cautious, but that could be a very good change. It won’t hurt spvp, but in WvW we could see zerg fights being more skill based, and more inclusive. What will you do with your guardians? Stack up to 25 stacks before pushing, preparing for hard cc? Or progressively burn through your stabs one guardian at a time, for a longer duration at the risk of being burst cced?

Some new builds might enter the zerg meta, the infamous GWEN. Venom share thief, to rip off the enemies’ stab with elite venom. Mesmers, to drop them chaos storms on the zerg and daze everyone. Necro fear walls! Slick Shoes engis! The days of spamming one, blindingly following the tag, my-blob-is-bigger-so-I-win are maybe finally over? Real pvp in WvW, can you imagine? Communication will be more important than ever, and the best guilds will finally be taken seriously by these spvp snobs! What a time to be alive.

Whatever reason they decided to change stability — likely they need some new gimmicks for the revenant and the resistance boon — they will not balance it with WvW in mind. Their intention is always to balance first for PvP.

If you see in the video that it’s badly balanced for PvP, it simply means they are terrible at balance — which is not far-fetched because they’ve shown themselves to be very poor at it.

Lord Kuru.3685:

Whatever reason they decided to change stability — likely they need some new gimmicks for the revenant and the resistance boon — they will not balance it with WvW in mind. Their intention is always to balance first for PvP.

If you see in the video that it’s badly balanced for PvP, it simply means they are terrible at balance — which is not far-fetched because they’ve shown themselves to be very poor at it.

Yes, the balance in GW2 is usually around spvp, because you want to balance primarily for a game mode in which the teams are the same size and the gear does not matter. But in my opinion your views on this matter are delusional. GW2’s balance is better than most MMO’s, especially now, so I don’t know where this “they don’t know how to balance” comes from. Sure, you wouldn’t know still you obviously have never played pvp in your life. I just explained how having five stacks on stab on you in pvp was a guaranteed full duration stab, did you read or just quoted it for the lulz? So yeah, for once, this is a WvW balance change! Next time, instead of complaining on the forums on issues you have no idea about, play the game!

Sorel.4870:

Lord Kuru.3685:

Whatever reason they decided to change stability — likely they need some new gimmicks for the revenant and the resistance boon — they will not balance it with WvW in mind. Their intention is always to balance first for PvP.

If you see in the video that it’s badly balanced for PvP, it simply means they are terrible at balance — which is not far-fetched because they’ve shown themselves to be very poor at it.

Yes, the balance in GW2 is usually around spvp, because you want to balance primarily for a game mode in which the teams are the same size and the gear does not matter. But in my opinion your views on this matter are delusional. GW2’s balance is better than most MMO’s, especially now, so I don’t know where this “they don’t know how to balance” comes from. Sure, you wouldn’t know still you obviously have never played pvp in your life. I just explained how having five stacks on stab on you in pvp was a guaranteed full duration stab, did you read or just quoted it for the lulz? So yeah, for once, this is a WvW balance change! Next time, instead of complaining on the forums on issues you have no idea about, play the game!

You’re the one who’s delusional if you think they ever balance for WvW. In WvW, the number of people on each side can change drastically from fight to fight, there is no way to balance stability properly with stacks. Perhaps if you played WvW, you’d know that population differences between servers are becoming more and more pronounced. If you give even more advantages to the bigger server is just insane.

the only prof that can dish out 5 CCs in a few seconds is stunlock warrior. Even if you do use Mace 2, shield 4, hammer F1, Hammer 2 and hammer 4, youd just end up with a warrior with zero real offensive power. Totally useless.

The only place that stability with stacks rather then duration would matter is WvW, where you currently can shut down every stun attack with one skill. This change is 100% meant for PvE and WvW, where you have multiple sources of CC hitting you.

The only thing i am truly worried about is how this will change current skills.

The change is entirely to accommodate the new class, and will be ‘balanced’ around spvp.

Any affects on wvw will be purely unintentional, as they have no wvw test server so no proper testing of how players will make use of the new class and ‘balance’ changes.

Prysin.8542:

the only prof that can dish out 5 CCs in a few seconds is stunlock warrior.

That is not true.
Mesmer (diversion with 3/4 clones, weapon-rupt, mantra),
engineer (some traited turrets, rifle, you can start it with magnet for +1..),
thief (well, it’s more like 2-3(4+ if you spamm pistol), stealth Sword #1, elite venom, traited steal, weapon skill(OH pistol) spamm with meta-builds) can do it, too.
A well-placed line will remove 1-2 stacks, too, as not everyone will notice it and will run over it a few times.
And prolly 1 boon removal will remove the whole stack.
So in sPvP it’s either the same as now (remove it) or actually you can focus with your team, and easily remove that few stacks. (We don’t know how many stacks the skills will give.)
But in wvw, where you can see 10+ lines in front of you, with some statics, you’ll "never" cross that (you can use every stabi skills, but then you lost the fight most of the time)

Lord Kuru.3685:

I don’t think there is “WvW design.” The devs design for PvP and for PvE open world. However that affects WvW gameplay is however that affects WvW gameplay.

As for stability nerf, it’s going to be bad. Looking at past history, we can extrapolate that:

1. It will be balanced for PvP, and so unbalanced for WvW — particularly bigger vs smaller fights.
2. Even if they attempt to balance for WvW (by splitting the behavior of stability in PvP and WvW), they will fail on the first try and it will be 6 months until the next balance patch.
3. And in that next patch, they will try to fix the problem by nerfing other skills — CCs — for example, instead of directly addressing the problem…. creating even more problems.

PvP stability is only used for safer stomps and rezzes in the short term. It would require a massive change for it to affect PvP stability balancing.

Why are you guys arguing under the irrational assumption that what you see in a dev video will be the end result of stability stacks a skill has? It is possible that a dev tool added 3 of those stacks. It is possible they just picked a random number of stacks for it for testing.

Lord Kuru.3685:

Sorel.4870:

Lord Kuru.3685:

Whatever reason they decided to change stability — likely they need some new gimmicks for the revenant and the resistance boon — they will not balance it with WvW in mind. Their intention is always to balance first for PvP.

If you see in the video that it’s badly balanced for PvP, it simply means they are terrible at balance — which is not far-fetched because they’ve shown themselves to be very poor at it.

Yes, the balance in GW2 is usually around spvp, because you want to balance primarily for a game mode in which the teams are the same size and the gear does not matter. But in my opinion your views on this matter are delusional. GW2’s balance is better than most MMO’s, especially now, so I don’t know where this “they don’t know how to balance” comes from. Sure, you wouldn’t know still you obviously have never played pvp in your life. I just explained how having five stacks on stab on you in pvp was a guaranteed full duration stab, did you read or just quoted it for the lulz? So yeah, for once, this is a WvW balance change! Next time, instead of complaining on the forums on issues you have no idea about, play the game!

You’re the one who’s delusional if you think they ever balance for WvW. In WvW, the number of people on each side can change drastically from fight to fight, there is no way to balance stability properly with stacks. Perhaps if you played WvW, you’d know that population differences between servers are becoming more and more pronounced. If you give even more advantages to the bigger server is just insane.

As a mainly WvW player, I’ll tell you, the spvp guy you are arguing with is right. GWEN meta you have to wait for the stability to wear off then cc & burst, or attack the backline with smart mouvements. Now you will finally have a hard counter to idiotic melee trains that count on the numbers game to win a fight.
Also, the stability change is the only major change we know of, and a portion of revenants. All the specialisations will impact WvW as well, the new boons and condis as well… WvW meta will change as it has changed many times already. Strategies and counter strategies will always appear. (some built anti-meta others from balance changes like the coming one)

Sorel.4870:

Lord Kuru.3685:

I don’t think there is “WvW design.” The devs design for PvP and for PvE open world. However that affects WvW gameplay is however that affects WvW gameplay.

As for stability nerf, it’s going to be bad. Looking at past history, we can extrapolate that:

1. It will be balanced for PvP, and so unbalanced for WvW — particularly bigger vs smaller fights.
2. Even if they attempt to balance for WvW (by splitting the behavior of stability in PvP and WvW), they will fail on the first try and it will be 6 months until the next balance patch.
3. And in that next patch, they will try to fix the problem by nerfing other skills — CCs — for example, instead of directly addressing the problem…. creating even more problems.

Do you even pvp bro? You might be misinformed. You could see on PoI that the revenant got 5 stacks of stability out of a really short CD skill. In spvp, no one will waste 5 cc abilities just to get rid of a stab. They’ll just strip it with a thief, mesmer or necro.

So it appears to be a WvW balance change! I’ll remain cautious, but that could be a very good change. It won’t hurt spvp, but in WvW we could see zerg fights being more skill based, and more inclusive. What will you do with your guardians? Stack up to 25 stacks before pushing, preparing for hard cc? Or progressively burn through your stabs one guardian at a time, for a longer duration at the risk of being burst cced?

Some new builds might enter the zerg meta, the infamous GWEN. Venom share thief, to rip off the enemies’ stab with elite venom. Mesmers, to drop them chaos storms on the zerg and daze everyone. Necro fear walls! Slick Shoes engis! The days of spamming one, blindingly following the tag, my-blob-is-bigger-so-I-win are maybe finally over? Real pvp in WvW, can you imagine? Communication will be more important than ever, and the best guilds will finally be taken seriously by these spvp snobs! What a time to be alive.

If all you do is spam 1, you are not very good at zerg fighting. Just saying.

The problem I see here is: The optimal meta is discovered, a lot perform it well, more and more train it, it will be followed till the end of GW2, now. Boring!

So change it. Not because I think it’s bad, unfair or what ever, but simply because it’s known, and the phase where different meta’s compete to be the best meta is much more interesting, than the phase where everyone is following the winning meta.

Here a possibility (but there are likely many, many others) to do so: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/wuv/How-can-we-changed-WvW-to-prevent-the-blob/4821283

Sorel.4870:

But in my opinion your views on this matter are delusional. GW2’s balance is better than most MMO’s, especially now, so I don’t know where this “they don’t know how to balance” comes from.

Well I guess it comes from the balance…

As we are in the WvW forum take a look at the class balance of WvW over the last couple of years, it is appalling, by far the worst for larger scale PvP in any MMO I’ve played.

For two years large groups/zergs have consisted of 80%-100% of 4 classes, there are times when you will have not seen a single engy/ranger/thief and just the odd veilbot (and sometimes not even one of those), I have never played another MMO where 50% of the classes are either barely represented (thief / mesmer) or completely absent (engy/ranger) in large scale PvP.

style.6173:

If all you do is spam 1, you are not very good at zerg fighting. Just saying.

I’m terrible at zerg fighting, I will not lie about it^^.

zinkz.7045:

Sorel.4870:

But in my opinion your views on this matter are delusional. GW2’s balance is better than most MMO’s, especially now, so I don’t know where this “they don’t know how to balance” comes from.

Well I guess it comes from the balance…

As we are in the WvW forum take a look at the class balance of WvW over the last couple of years, it is appalling, by far the worst for larger scale PvP in any MMO I’ve played.

For two years large groups/zergs have consisted of 80%-100% of 4 classes, there are times when you will have not seen a single engy/ranger/thief and just the odd veilbot (and sometimes not even one of those), I have never played another MMO where 50% of the classes are either barely represented (thief / mesmer) or completely absent (engy/ranger) in large scale PvP.

I think we agree, but we don’t speak about the same balance. I responded to someone saying “Anet is terrible at balance”. No, Anet justs balances the game around spvp, which is how it should be, don’t you think? WvW will never be truly balanced: gear, food, guard stacks, numbers, etc.

That does not mean your concern is not legitimate. I’m also annoyed by the GWEN meta. I wrote somewhere that maybe this stability change was actually going to shift this meta a bit. Shatter f3 mesmers, slick shoes engis, venom share thieves: maybe one of these specs will now find it’s place in the meta? I’ll say it one more time, I think this is an intent to balance WvW: maybe you and Anet are one the same page for once?

WvW cannot be balanced. So many people have stated it so many times and it’s still true.
Why does this balancing WvW come up every now and again?

The game mode itself is a sandbox. There are so many factors (number of people in a BL on either side, their level, their gear, their build, food, commanders). There is no balance. WvW balance is a lie.

I’m confused…. for the last couple of months it’s been “melee is irrelevant, no one plays warrior, they’re just good for buffs”.

Now that a stab. change is coming it’s like “Zergs are now 90% heavies…..Seeing zergs of 50 hammers, 50% of the classes are either barely represented (thief / mesmer) or completely absent (engy/ranger)”.

hammer trains…?

Someone please enlighten me and point me in the direction of all these rampaging hammer wielding melee beasts that’s taking over wvw… please!

Because I was getting a little disheartened and lonely not seeing as many of my fellow brothers and sisters in arms out in the field after the adrenaline patch.

Someone point the way so I can also savor and slather in the rapture of destroying all those other unrepresented classes.

Hammer trains have been around for a while now and it’s only going to get worse. The best way to protect yourself from a hammer train was using stability but with the upcoming changes to stability, it’s going to get worse.