Guild Wars 2

As we see, hammers are the wvw communities’ new fashion. about 80% the heavy armor players mostly play with hammers for knockdown, stun etc. in groups. Zergs with more hammer users always win. I think they have to provide players more options to play instead of going for cc only. I think we need to gain stability for a while after being knocked down etc. once in order to prevent cc spam from the zerg. With too much cc spam, it’s impossible to fight properly in crowded fights.

Also arrowcarts are mostly ruining player vs player combats and encourage players to hide in towers and just build & fire more arrow carts.(for example eu vizunah) I think arrow cart skills/damages should be nerfed to encourage players to fight with their own abilities. Too many acs just ruin the pvp oriented combat.
These are my thoughts. What do you think about this issue ?

I think all classes should be made useful in the zerg.

Or just use stability before they hit you with their CC, and stun breaks followed by dodging if you do get hit.

Agreed about siege though.

Excalibur.9748:

I think all classes should be made useful in the zerg.

this, but the problem is that anet doesnt split balance between spvp and wvw. so mesmers will not get buffs, because they are doing pretty well in spvp(once condition meta has been toned down). the problem is that warriors will get more buff(shouts according to anet) and they are already out of control in wvw. then there is guardians right after that and necros. soon after the staff ele buff. elementalist will be joining the meta too. the sad part is that mesmers and rangers will become even less part of wvw.
if a commander asks for mesmers to m up in chat u will see around 3-5 out of 30+ .
most of the zergs out there is warrior/guardian trains with ele for wterfields and aoe and necros for condition overload spam.

but hey lets make warriors shouts stronger. and anet already stated that they dont wanna separate the balance as it would be confusing, which is not true a all. wvw balance is in a very very sad state atm.

Istaf.1953:

Or just use stability before they hit you with their CC, and stun breaks followed by dodging if you do get hit.

Agreed about siege though.

which stability? mesmers have very little access to it. guardians and warriors have the best stability in the game.

Istaf.1953:

Or just use stability before they hit you with their CC, and stun breaks followed by dodging if you do get hit.

Agreed about siege though.

Some classes don’t have enough stability options. Sure, we can make a stability/stun breaker build in order to prevent some of the ccs, but why do we need to play specifically just to deal or avoid ccs, instead of more enjoyable pvp fights with a freedom of build choice ? I mean there should be more options to enjoy zerg fights other than cc trains. Too much cc+multi target damage results in 10 second fights. Because cc=win, players feel obligated to use cc oriented builds. (also many guilds require these builds for their raids)

Honestly, when I see u talking about mesmer, than I say, if the hammer warrior hits you, it is your own fault. A good mesmer can kite a hammer warrior all day long. And if the warrior is really good, he might hit and even defeat you. But then the reason for that might be, that he really is that good.

About Arrow carts. No. If you want to 1v1, then do duels or go to sPvP. Siege is an important part of WvW. After ACs have been nerved, should we next nerf Balistas? What about the big dmg rams do to a gate? I think that is way over the top too.

There are professions that have more stability than other, and then there are professione, that have almost no stability. But again, talking about mesmer, I often steal my opponents stability and problem is solved.

TyPin.9860:

Honestly, when I see u talking about mesmer, than I say, if the hammer warrior hits you, it is your own fault. A good mesmer can kite a hammer warrior all day long. And if the warrior is really good, he might hit and even defeat you. But then the reason for that might be, that he really is that good.

About Arrow carts. No. If you want to 1v1, then do duels or go to sPvP. Siege is an important part of WvW. After ACs have been nerved, should we next nerf Balistas? What about the big dmg rams do to a gate? I think that is way over the top too.

There are professions that have more stability than other, and then there are professione, that have almost no stability. But again, talking about mesmer, I often steal my opponents stability and problem is solved.

u kidding right? im not talking about roaming and 1v1. 1 mesmer can kite 1 warrior, YES!of course he can do that as a 1v1 is like spvp.
im talking about actual group fights like gvg,like zvz, not 1v1 or 3v1. im sure if u face a hammerwarrior train your kiting gets lost after…..,hmm 2 seconds.
im not using blink as all my utilities atm are condition cleansing, 1 stunbreaker and feedback.but im talking about actual zergs and yes u will get hit multiple times by hammerwarriors and stunlocked and condition spammed to death.

I have encoutnered such Zergs. And honestly, while they were hard to deal with, you can deal with them. Cuz you’ll have your own Hammer Warriors in there. If you are so heavy on condition cleansing, than I say it is ur own fault. Running in a Zerg doesn’t require so many condition cleanses. Using staff gives you on #2 an almost stun breaker and sword #2 gives you a pretty nice evade. And proper stacking will still help you even against those warriors with any profession.

I can not imagine how one plays mesmer without blink. But that is your choice. I see not often such hammer heavy Zergs. I saw but many groups up to 10 players using them, but then also it was not that hard to deal with them. Either I have had not met the kind of Zerg you’re talking about or you simply might want to change your playstyle.

Istaf.1953:

Or just use stability before they hit you with their CC, and stun breaks followed by dodging if you do get hit.

Agreed about siege though.

Some people don’t have that much access to stability.

If arrow carts were removed WvW would be so much better. Or add a LoS requirement like balista do.

Have you all forgotten that ACs were recently buffed to their current levels?
Acs are exactly as powerful as Anet decided they should be in a very recent revamping so that won’t change.

As for Mesmers and Stabilty in a zerg – lol! what’s a Mesmer doing in the middle? Run around the edges you kitten. Don’t stand in the fire!
Your job is to pull suckers from the zerg, kite them around a bit, then kill them.

Contiguous.1345:

Have you all forgotten that ACs were recently buffed to their current levels?
Acs are exactly as powerful as Anet decided they should be in a very recent revamping so that won’t change.

As for Mesmers and Stabilty in a zerg – lol! what’s a Mesmer doing in the middle? Run around the edges you kitten. Don’t stand in the fire!
Your job is to pull suckers from the zerg, kite them around a bit, then kill them.

I know, they’ve added ac mastery which is a buff for acs. imo the game needs vice versa. acs have to be nerfed in order to decrease ac popularity in wvw and encourage players to fight with class-based skills. Currently many servers use this tactic, they kite enemy zerg to a tower then fire their 20 acs in the tower… or at least they do this while defending their tower etc.. imo this is not fun and can’t be compared to the fun of infantry vs infantry fights. ac should stay in wvw, but not with this prominence.

NEW fashion?^^ lol ppl use hammers since MONTHS

and all i can say is if u are getting hit by a hammerstun while being ranged, your positioning is flawed. ofc, if youre the mindless zergling running in that group of melee’s spamming things, you’ll get hit by that. but usually, good mesmers, eles and necros (not in plague) avoid the meleecombat and spam their aoe from the sides.

if you problems with stability as a melee, your doin something wrong, there are plenty of stability skills, even some aoe stability ones, use them.

as for ac’s, i agree.

Skyllar.3562:

NEW fashion?^^ lol ppl use hammers since MONTHS

and all i can say is if u are getting hit by a hammerstun while being ranged, your positioning is flawed. ofc, if youre the mindless zergling running in that group of melee’s spamming things, you’ll get hit by that. but usually, good mesmers, eles and necros (not in plague) avoid the meleecombat and spam their aoe from the sides.

if you problems with stability as a melee, your doin something wrong, there are plenty of stability skills, even some aoe stability ones, use them.

as for ac’s, i agree.

ppl use hammers since months, yes. but it started to be overused after the class buffs 1-2 months ago. Now, it’s not about just using hammer as a preference, it’s an obligation for cc train. The problem isn’t only hammers, hammer is just a bold example for nowadays. ranged classes can easily be stunned from range with an ele lightning field then the hammer train can easily bash your heads. If an ele’s main role in raids and zerg fights is using lightning field, a warrior’s main role is using hammer to cc, a guardian’s role is to use wall/bubble etc., necro’s role is using fear, then there’s something wrong. I mean it’s not about classes, it’s about cc’s importance and popularity nowadays. cc train(i mean repeatedly usage of ccs from multiple players) in massive fights can be annoying, and prevents players to fight properly.

Zacchary.6183:

Some people don’t have that much access to stability.

That’s the beauty of classes complimenting eachother.

That’s also one of the main mechanics behind this game.

Guardians have 2 AoE stability skills.

Guardian uses those skills. You gain stability.

You can also copy your boons to other players (Signet of Inspiration, very powerful), and so can other mesmers. You can stack stuff quite well.

Play as a team.

You’re talking about CC zergs and zerging in general. But then you pretty much talk about playing on your own? “My class doesn’t have a lot/any stability”. You’re in a zerg, compliment each other with your skills, you’re not soloing.

Don’t blame the CC if you’re not going to even try to counter it. (Yes I am a warrior, no I don’t use hammer)

There should be immunity to CC after the effect has wore off. The problem is not fighting against say 1 hammer. It is the fact that multiple hammers can keep someone stunned/ knocked down indefinitely long after someone has used all available stun breakers.

kingcragus.6810:

There should be immunity to CC after the effect has wore off. The problem is not fighting against say 1 hammer. It is the fact that multiple hammers can keep someone stunned/ knocked down indefinitely long after someone has used all available stun breakers.

There is already such immunity. It is called stability, read the post above you again

Also while stability is preferred, taking stun breakers works in most situations as well.

I mean it is pretty obvious now (I would hope) on when you need to pop these skills.

Have No Faith In Me.1840:

Zacchary.6183:

Some people don’t have that much access to stability.

That’s the beauty of classes complimenting eachother.

That’s also one of the main mechanics behind this game.

Guardians have 2 AoE stability skills.

Guardian uses those skills. You gain stability.

3.

We have 3.

The issue isn’t CC, the issue is “you’re pug’n it”. Join a coordinated guild grp that’s using TS/VEnt/Mumble and call out the train =]

Umut.5471:

Skyllar.3562:

NEW fashion?^^ lol ppl use hammers since MONTHS

and all i can say is if u are getting hit by a hammerstun while being ranged, your positioning is flawed. ofc, if youre the mindless zergling running in that group of melee’s spamming things, you’ll get hit by that. but usually, good mesmers, eles and necros (not in plague) avoid the meleecombat and spam their aoe from the sides.

if you problems with stability as a melee, your doin something wrong, there are plenty of stability skills, even some aoe stability ones, use them.

as for ac’s, i agree.

ppl use hammers since months, yes. but it started to be overused after the class buffs 1-2 months ago. Now, it’s not about just using hammer as a preference, it’s an obligation for cc train. The problem isn’t only hammers, hammer is just a bold example for nowadays. ranged classes can easily be stunned from range with an ele lightning field then the hammer train can easily bash your heads. If an ele’s main role in raids and zerg fights is using lightning field, a warrior’s main role is using hammer to cc, a guardian’s role is to use wall/bubble etc., necro’s role is using fear, then there’s something wrong. I mean it’s not about classes, it’s about cc’s importance and popularity nowadays. cc train(i mean repeatedly usage of ccs from multiple players) in massive fights can be annoying, and prevents players to fight properly.

started getting overused after a buff? hell no, organised groups are using it since the very beginning.

you’re getting stunned by a static field? well, use your stunbreak. if you dont have 1 youre doin something wrong. the only class which has problems with stunbreaks is a necromancer, but well, they can just go plagueform and then they’ll be fine. i’ve never heard of a ranged player complaining about getting chaincc’d by a meleetrain. Why? Because they know that if they are, they failed horribly.

whats way more deadly than a stun is immobilize IMO. there is no JUSTIGNOREIT tool for conditions

While hammers are overdoing it at the moment (Diminishing Returns? Anyone?) I’d love to see a Reason for using anything else.

As for the AC’s, make them skill shots like EVERYTHING else.

pejot.4806:

kingcragus.6810:

There should be immunity to CC after the effect has wore off. The problem is not fighting against say 1 hammer. It is the fact that multiple hammers can keep someone stunned/ knocked down indefinitely long after someone has used all available stun breakers.

There is already such immunity. It is called stability, read the post above you again

I am talking about actual immunity.
Example: “You have recently been affected by a stun you are immune to stuns for 5 seconds” or whatever…make it a wxp ability with a very high cost.

As some one mentioned above CC has no diminishing returns. Perhaps this should be addressed.

The thing with CC trains is that they are very powerful and effective but also very easy to accomplish.

Oh and AC’s. Imo any siege weapon that has shot that can pass through terrain is just a joke and need removing from the game.

Hammer warriors are simply exploiting the reason they were made. Heavy armor + high life pool, and CC.

Every class has CC (mesmers complaining about CC, I’ll remember that the next time I see people pulled off a wall…) and finding the best way to use it is the responsibility of the players and their guildies in helping them refine their builds and playstyles.

As for dealing with hammer mods, double dodge is your friend. As a hammer warrior myself the people I kill are the idiot casters who stay bunched up. Everyone who isn’t “tanky” should be running in circles around the hammer train or picking off stragglers.

TyPin.9860:

I have encoutnered such Zergs. And honestly, while they were hard to deal with, you can deal with them. Cuz you’ll have your own Hammer Warriors in there. If you are so heavy on condition cleansing, than I say it is ur own fault. Running in a Zerg doesn’t require so many condition cleanses. Using staff gives you on #2 an almost stun breaker and sword #2 gives you a pretty nice evade. And proper stacking will still help you even against those warriors with any profession.

I can not imagine how one plays mesmer without blink. But that is your choice. I see not often such hammer heavy Zergs. I saw but many groups up to 10 players using them, but then also it was not that hard to deal with them. Either I have had not met the kind of Zerg you’re talking about or you simply might want to change your playstyle.

im in na t2 and facing 2 t1 server this week and all i see is warriors and guardians and necros. im being knocked around like a tennisball whithout being able to use 1 single skill.
and yes there are many mesmers out there that dont use blink and my playstyle is fine. u are in t7 and think a group of 10 is many. … well imagine 30-60 and u get what i have faced and am facing every day in na t2. 10 players is almost spvp style and then yes u can use blink and avoid hammer warriors.
i need to carrie veil or stunbreaker/feedback and nullfield with me.
but when facing a zerg, u will see the meta come alive. there is no time to call out 10 people, there is a 30man coordinated guild pushing out the gate with veil. and cc is 90 percent of the initial burst.
and today we needed 5 people to kil 1 stunlockwarrior(he kept heeling, kept cc’in us and was in godlike mode. they need to be toned down. yes, hammerwarriors always existed, but the buffs they received because of spvp, made them op.

Chris.3290:

Hammer warriors are simply exploiting the reason they were made. Heavy armor + high life pool, and CC.

Every class has CC (mesmers complaining about CC, I’ll remember that the next time I see people pulled off a wall…) and finding the best way to use it is the responsibility of the players and their guildies in helping them refine their builds and playstyles.

As for dealing with hammer mods, double dodge is your friend. As a hammer warrior myself the people I kill are the idiot casters who stay bunched up. Everyone who isn’t “tanky” should be running in circles around the hammer train or picking off stragglers.

says the hammerwarrior. there is way more cc than the hammerwariors to avoid. too much fear, 6-12 hammerwarriors ccing at the same time, engi locking u down and blowing u up, then all the other cc abilities that warriors have and yes mesmers have 1 pull on a 20 sec cooldown, them binding roots, then more fear…rinse and repeat!
there has to be an immunity so u cant be chain interrupted, chain feared and chain stunned. i wanna be able to react at least.

Why do you ppl allways think, that you have seen so much more up in t2 and t1? Our Zergs are not only 10 ppl, lol, that’s a small havoc group or a guild team. Our Zergs are up to 60+ ppl too. Our problem lies within coverage for a whole week. And we’re faced against even higher tier servers and got rofflestomped by huge Zergs ourselfes. But that is no suprise.

Did u ever think that guild Zergs, who most likely are voice chatting with each other and are opening with veil and CC, are just organized very well? Do you run in an own organized guild zerg? If every character has only 1 cc skill (and even chaos storm can be used as CC in a Zerg fight), then they can open with 60 cc skills at the same time. They won’t need hammer warrior to bring out such an initial burst.

Hell it is WvW. It is ment to be played with siege, with suprise attacks, with tactic and strategy. Ppl don’t use that. They just mindlessly Zerg arround. A random Zerg will get rofflestomped by such a big guild Zerg any time. Nerfing warriors won’t change that. CC is very strong is this game and easily executed in many cases. You have to be smart about it and you have to know, which fights you can pick and which you can’t. You know that you could use those mentioned ACs, ppl are complaining about, even against big Zergs? But wait, is that organizied guild using those already? I might start to see a pattern here.

TyPin.9860:

Why do you ppl allways think, that you have seen so much more up in t2 and t1? Our Zergs are not only 10 ppl, lol, that’s a small havoc group or a guild team. Our Zergs are up to 60+ ppl too. Our problem lies within coverage for a whole week. And we’re faced against even higher tier servers and got rofflestomped by huge Zergs ourselfes. But that is no suprise.

Did u ever think that guild Zergs, who most likely are voice chatting with each other and are opening with veil and CC, are just organized very well? Do you run in an own organized guild zerg? If every character has only 1 cc skill (and even chaos storm can be used as CC in a Zerg fight), then they can open with 60 cc skills at the same time. They won’t need hammer warrior to bring out such an initial burst.

Hell it is WvW. It is ment to be played with siege, with suprise attacks, with tactic and strategy. Ppl don’t use that. They just mindlessly Zerg arround. A random Zerg will get rofflestomped by such a big guild Zerg any time. Nerfing warriors won’t change that. CC is very strong is this game and easily executed in many cases. You have to be smart about it and you have to know, which fights you can pick and which you can’t. You know that you could use those mentioned ACs, ppl are complaining about, even against big Zergs? But wait, is that organizied guild using those already? I might start to see a pattern here.

Well said, pretty much this in a nutshell…

Also I have seen a few thieves that stealth and run tripwire on the approaching enemy and it be just as devastating as the aforementioned hammer stuns.

The long and short of it is that if it weren’t hammers it would be something else, necro walls, coordinated mesmer focus pulls, traps etc…

The issue is that it becomes extremely difficult to deal with when you face coordinated VoIP group that is setting CC properly. (I mean unless you get your stability up)

The best way to defend from CC is:

Stun break skills
Superior Runes of Melandru
Lemongrass poultry Soup (-40 condi duration)
Stability from your profession skills or (leech off the many shout Guardians making love to their keyboards)
Profession abilities that remove conditions
And stay away from the pretty red circles on the groun.

I don’t have any problem with stuns but sadly WvW has become Guardian & Warrior Wars and some Necros…. Eles and Mes are weird to see now, roamers and golem rushers still use them, at least in my server this has become very obvious, somehow I feel we will be seeing a nerf on both guards & warriors pretty soon dunno about necros.

Sometimes it is not a matter of L2P is a matter of balance between classes

kingcragus.6810:

pejot.4806:

kingcragus.6810:

There should be immunity to CC after the effect has wore off. The problem is not fighting against say 1 hammer. It is the fact that multiple hammers can keep someone stunned/ knocked down indefinitely long after someone has used all available stun breakers.

There is already such immunity. It is called stability, read the post above you again

I am talking about actual immunity.
Example: “You have recently been affected by a stun you are immune to stuns for 5 seconds” or whatever…make it a wxp ability with a very high cost.

As some one mentioned above CC has no diminishing returns. Perhaps this should be addressed.

The thing with CC trains is that they are very powerful and effective but also very easy to accomplish.

Oh and AC’s. Imo any siege weapon that has shot that can pass through terrain is just a joke and need removing from the game.

you got my point. this is what i’m trying to say. to prevent cc train in a zerg you get short duration stability after being knocked down, stunned, feared etc. by this way a player won’t get more cc than intended. the problem isn’t cc, the problem is ppl just make cc oriented builds in order to win in wvw. so it becomes overused and overused. it’s not a problem to get knocked down by a player, but if it’s spammed by the zerg repeatedly it ruins the fun of fights imo.

Stability and stun breaks are not a magic solution given the amount of immobilize that is thrown into ability spamming, not to mention null fields and other boon stripping. Many of the CC abilities are on a shorter cool down then the stability skills, so the more drawn out the fight the more holes in your stability coverage you get.

Skyllar.3562:

started getting overused after a buff? hell no, organised groups are using it since the very beginning.

you’re getting stunned by a static field? well, use your stunbreak. if you dont have 1 youre doin something wrong. the only class which has problems with stunbreaks is a necromancer, but well, they can just go plagueform and then they’ll be fine. i’ve never heard of a ranged player complaining about getting chaincc’d by a meleetrain. Why? Because they know that if they are, they failed horribly.

whats way more deadly than a stun is immobilize IMO. there is no JUSTIGNOREIT tool for conditions

you are right, but this isn’t what i’m trying to say. for example i’m playing necro as my main, and i never enter in an enemy cc train, i just range aoe/fear them from a safe distance. the problem is we have to just play like that, there’s no another good option for classes. for example a necro,ele,mesmer,ranger can use melee weapons like dagger,axe,sword,gs etc., but would you use them in a such cc train ? i’m not complaining about cc train as a ranged player, the problem is cc train obligates you to play as ranged only. you are obligated to use only one build to counter or be a part of the cc chain. i mean there should be more options and builds in wvw for all classes. i just want to see more build/fight options among monotone wvw builds.

selan.8354:

which stability? mesmers have very little access to it. guardians and warriors have the best stability in the game.

Umut.5471:

Some classes don’t have enough stability options. Sure, we can make a stability/stun breaker build in order to prevent some of the ccs, but why do we need to play specifically just to deal or avoid ccs, instead of more enjoyable pvp fights with a freedom of build choice ? I mean there should be more options to enjoy zerg fights other than cc trains. Too much cc+multi target damage results in 10 second fights. Because cc=win, players feel obligated to use cc oriented builds. (also many guilds require these builds for their raids)

Some classes, like guardian, have stability that effects other people. If we’re talking 1v1, there has never been a MMO that has balanced 1v1 combat. That I’ve played at least.

Also, without CC, Melee would be pretty pointless.

Niim.9260:

Stability and stun breaks are not a magic solution given the amount of immobilize that is thrown into ability spamming, not to mention null fields and other boon stripping. Many of the CC abilities are on a shorter cool down then the stability skills, so the more drawn out the fight the more holes in your stability coverage you get.

Which is why you don’t stand in red circles or spam your stability mindlessly. As for immobilize, your team should have some form of condition cleansing. Lots of ways to do it. Personally I rarely have to worry about conditions in our teams setup, and if I do, theres always lemongrass

Art.9820:

I don’t have any problem with stuns but sadly WvW has become Guardian & Warrior Wars and some Necros…. Eles and Mes are weird to see now, roamers and golem rushers still use them, at least in my server this has become very obvious, somehow I feel we will be seeing a nerf on both guards & warriors pretty soon dunno about necros.

Sometimes it is not a matter of L2P is a matter of balance between classes

Not sure what setup you’ve been running but Ele’s and mesmers are two very much used classes. Ele’s have static, water fields and lots of damage, mesmers have boon stripping, veil, portals, time warp etc. The only classes that aren’t used in WvW is ranger and Engi. And one of the main reasons Engi isn’t used is because there aren’t any. Ranger on the other hand needs a buff.

Istaf.1953:

Art.9820:

I don’t have any problem with stuns but sadly WvW has become Guardian & Warrior Wars and some Necros…. Eles and Mes are weird to see now, roamers and golem rushers still use them, at least in my server this has become very obvious, somehow I feel we will be seeing a nerf on both guards & warriors pretty soon dunno about necros.

Sometimes it is not a matter of L2P is a matter of balance between classes

Not sure what setup you’ve been running but Ele’s and mesmers are two very much used classes. Ele’s have static, water fields and lots of damage, mesmers have boon stripping, veil, portals, time warp etc. The only classes that aren’t used in WvW is ranger and Engi. And one of the main reasons Engi isn’t used is because there aren’t any. Ranger on the other hand needs a buff.

Yup but I encourage to actually sit and start counting heads when zerging and you will notice what I meant, I’m talking about several times not only once, currently most zergs are probably composed by 50%+ of guards and warriors because right now they have an important role.

Engineers and mesmers are the least played classes within the game but we still see a lot of them running around what I’m trying to say is that meta and class popularity are two different things.

Do you remember how all zergs had A LOT of D/D eles?

I think this is one way of many in which anet can draw lines and go by to see the current state of the game.

Art.9820:

Istaf.1953:

Art.9820:

I don’t have any problem with stuns but sadly WvW has become Guardian & Warrior Wars and some Necros…. Eles and Mes are weird to see now, roamers and golem rushers still use them, at least in my server this has become very obvious, somehow I feel we will be seeing a nerf on both guards & warriors pretty soon dunno about necros.

Sometimes it is not a matter of L2P is a matter of balance between classes

Not sure what setup you’ve been running but Ele’s and mesmers are two very much used classes. Ele’s have static, water fields and lots of damage, mesmers have boon stripping, veil, portals, time warp etc. The only classes that aren’t used in WvW is ranger and Engi. And one of the main reasons Engi isn’t used is because there aren’t any. Ranger on the other hand needs a buff.

Yup but I encourage to actually sit and start counting heads when zerging and you will notice what I meant, I’m talking about several times not only once, currently most zergs are probably composed by 50%+ of guards and warriors because right now they have an important role.

Engineers and mesmers are the least played classes within the game but we still see a lot of them running around what I’m trying to say is that meta and class popularity are two different things.

Do you remember how all zergs had A LOT of D/D eles?

I think this is one way of many in which anet can draw lines and go by to see the current state of the game.

Oh yea totally, there’s a lot of Guardians and Warriors. However I wouldn’t say the lack of Eles and Mesmers is because they’re useless. Mesmers are a necessity in WvW, In general combat their veil can make or break the opening of a engagement. Same goes for Ele with their healing, stuns and AoE damage which you simply don’t get from the heavy classes.

Our guild also did a lot of D/D eles back in the day, we still do it for fun matter of fact :P

Istaf.1953:

Oh yea totally, there’s a lot of Guardians and Warriors. However I wouldn’t say the lack of Eles and Mesmers is because they’re useless. Mesmers are a necessity in WvW, In general combat their veil can make or break the opening of a engagement. Same goes for Ele with their healing, stuns and AoE damage which you simply don’t get from the heavy classes.

Our guild also did a lot of D/D eles back in the day, we still do it for fun matter of fact :P

Oh don’t get me wrong, I’m not saying eles or mes are useless lol, those are two of the four classes I play in WvW. I just dislike the fact that by having 2 mesmers it would be enough in most cases, d/d eles got nerfed and it seems like people don’t enjoy playing staff like d/d, that’s why we see more people playing s/d.

Everyone wants to pew pew & smash stuff and if we compare 2 supportive classes like guardian against staff ele… well I think people find way more fun guardian because you can actually do decent damage, support your team & you’re more likely to survive.

Sadly I have both my mesmer and ele parked awaiting for a rebalance, I still roll em when the situation deserves it but other than that it is weird that I play them, guardian and warrior are great for all the game modes in wvw like mesmer and ele used to be :/

Yeah wait until that 40-man zerg takes your tower and see how you feel about less powerful AC’s (if it’s a good server and you have few defenders, you won’t stop them anyway even if they are superiors)

TyPin.9860:

Why do you ppl allways think, that you have seen so much more up in t2 and t1? Our Zergs are not only 10 ppl, lol, that’s a small havoc group or a guild team. Our Zergs are up to 60+ ppl too. Our problem lies within coverage for a whole week. And we’re faced against even higher tier servers and got rofflestomped by huge Zergs ourselfes. But that is no suprise.

Did u ever think that guild Zergs, who most likely are voice chatting with each other and are opening with veil and CC, are just organized very well? Do you run in an own organized guild zerg? If every character has only 1 cc skill (and even chaos storm can be used as CC in a Zerg fight), then they can open with 60 cc skills at the same time. They won’t need hammer warrior to bring out such an initial burst.

Hell it is WvW. It is ment to be played with siege, with suprise attacks, with tactic and strategy. Ppl don’t use that. They just mindlessly Zerg arround. A random Zerg will get rofflestomped by such a big guild Zerg any time. Nerfing warriors won’t change that. CC is very strong is this game and easily executed in many cases. You have to be smart about it and you have to know, which fights you can pick and which you can’t. You know that you could use those mentioned ACs, ppl are complaining about, even against big Zergs? But wait, is that organizied guild using those already? I might start to see a pattern here.

i know about zerging quite well and yes we do have a lot of coverage problems too. but there is a major cc/condi meta going on at the moment and its too much. im pretty good at kiting and usually manage to survive quite long, but lately the warrior meta has taken over whole wvw and this seems a little concerning. the stunlock warrior has received buffs that he needed to be at least viable in spvp, but it has changed wvw.
my guild is very coordinated and we have quite some epic push,kit and portal tactics, but for the past 2 weeks the warrior metas has gotten a little over the top. and its not only the warriors, its also the necros and engis. and actually before that our guild was able to take out groups that were way bigger than us. maybe the meta in eu and na are different atm….
i would love to invite u to our server if i could to see for yourself and u might understand what i mean.

Istaf.1953:

Art.9820:

Istaf.1953:

Art.9820:

I don’t have any problem with stuns but sadly WvW has become Guardian & Warrior Wars and some Necros…. Eles and Mes are weird to see now, roamers and golem rushers still use them, at least in my server this has become very obvious, somehow I feel we will be seeing a nerf on both guards & warriors pretty soon dunno about necros.

Sometimes it is not a matter of L2P is a matter of balance between classes

Not sure what setup you’ve been running but Ele’s and mesmers are two very much used classes. Ele’s have static, water fields and lots of damage, mesmers have boon stripping, veil, portals, time warp etc. The only classes that aren’t used in WvW is ranger and Engi. And one of the main reasons Engi isn’t used is because there aren’t any. Ranger on the other hand needs a buff.

Yup but I encourage to actually sit and start counting heads when zerging and you will notice what I meant, I’m talking about several times not only once, currently most zergs are probably composed by 50%+ of guards and warriors because right now they have an important role.

Engineers and mesmers are the least played classes within the game but we still see a lot of them running around what I’m trying to say is that meta and class popularity are two different things.

Do you remember how all zergs had A LOT of D/D eles?

I think this is one way of many in which anet can draw lines and go by to see the current state of the game.

Oh yea totally, there’s a lot of Guardians and Warriors. However I wouldn’t say the lack of Eles and Mesmers is because they’re useless. Mesmers are a necessity in WvW, In general combat their veil can make or break the opening of a engagement. Same goes for Ele with their healing, stuns and AoE damage which you simply don’t get from the heavy classes.

Our guild also did a lot of D/D eles back in the day, we still do it for fun matter of fact :P

well this is the problem though, as mesmers would like to be more than just support. dont get me wrong, i love helping u guys out with veil, but when glam was still viable, mesmers were veiling,feedbacking,nullfielding u guys just as well, as these are all glamfields, but since the nerf, we got stripped of our dmg output next to those utilities. well staff eles are gonna get buffed in October and will be able to move a little away from water/fire/lighningfields. i would like to see something done about rangers and mesmers so we can tag too.
being support should be a choice and not the only role your class has.

selan.8354:

well this is the problem though, as mesmers would like to be more than just support. dont get me wrong, i love helping u guys out with veil, but when glam was still viable, mesmers were veiling,feedbacking,nullfielding u guys just as well, as these are all glamfields, but since the nerf, we got stripped of our dmg output next to those utilities. well staff eles are gonna get buffed in October and will be able to move a little away from water/fire/lighningfields. i would like to see something done about rangers and mesmers so we can tag too.
being support should be a choice and not the only role your class has.

Well it’s a group activity so every class plays support. The basic Guardian build is all support shouts/consecrations, and Warriors also use support shouts/banners. Not to mention, the reason ranger is considered useless is because they don’t have good support characteristics in WvW.

I’ve also never seen a guild turn away a mesmer, or say things like “I wish we had fewer mesmers” so I’am not sure what you’re getting at. Rangers on the other hand are a different story.

Istaf.1953:

selan.8354:

well this is the problem though, as mesmers would like to be more than just support. dont get me wrong, i love helping u guys out with veil, but when glam was still viable, mesmers were veiling,feedbacking,nullfielding u guys just as well, as these are all glamfields, but since the nerf, we got stripped of our dmg output next to those utilities. well staff eles are gonna get buffed in October and will be able to move a little away from water/fire/lighningfields. i would like to see something done about rangers and mesmers so we can tag too.
being support should be a choice and not the only role your class has.

Well it’s a group activity so every class plays support. The basic Guardian build is all support shouts/consecrations, and Warriors also use support shouts/banners. Not to mention, the reason ranger is considered useless is because they don’t have good support characteristics in WvW.

I’ve also never seen a guild turn away a mesmer, or say things like “I wish we had fewer mesmers” so I’am not sure what you’re getting at. Rangers on the other hand are a different story.

but exactly this is the issue again. warriors still got dps, guardians are super tanky and can tag quite well while supporting. i feel like mesmers are being pushed into support only, while warriors, necros, guardians kill and get loot.
anet stated clearly that they dont want healers/ support/tank and dps classes separated like this and now they are exactly becoming that. what if i like my mesmer and dont wanna be a support only class? i should have the choice no?
and why is it i cant switch to a build that is great offensive and viable in a zvz?

where in my kitten class description says it: mesmers: the duelist(support only in wvw)? only portaling golems/veiling/ twping/nullfielding the dominant classes is not what i see as fun at all. i never played support classes or healers in any game and anet stated that this game is not the typical healer/dps/tank game!

the balance is completely screwed up atm. there needs to be a place for rangers and mesmers should be able to move away from utility bots. too many warrior/guardian/ necro trains with staff eles.

selan.8354:

what if i like my mesmer and dont wanna be a support only class? i should have the choice no?

In ZvZ, no. Like I said everyone, or at least should be, support in a ZvZ. As for Guardians being tanky as well as support. They’re also melee and the staff only has 600 range. Same for warriors. If they weren’t also tanky they’d be pretty useless.

Not meaning do be condescending, but it sounds to me that ZvZ isn’t for you honestly. You might have more fun doing smaller havoc groups around 5-10. My guild does these pre-rally and we have people come in DPS gear/builds. Works pretty well. Spend most our time following a enemy zerg and pick people off when they get into a large fight with another zerg.

Speaking of this AoN also does this, only they use lots of bunker mesmers in a group of 10 or so. They’re really hard to deal with because of all the phantasms, and by the time you get one of them down, they’ve focused down 3 of your people.

I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but if you’re having a lot of problems staying alive as a mesmer in fights it’s either you’re specced incorrectly or there’s an L2P issue. Mesmers have some phenomenal get-out-of-jail-free cards. I’d suggest traiting into them.