Guild Wars 2

Zerg Busting is the reason I fell in love with WvW. There are many players out there who crave zerg busting, who crave these exciting outnumbered fights. When HoT was released, it brought a lot of power creep with it.

Such as,
-Condition damage and stacking getting buffed extremely and allowing stats like dire/trailblazer to be used massively. Also epidemic being super strong and not getting nerfed.
-Elementalists going full heal bot mode and running extreme tanky stats like minstrel and nomads.
-Guardians becoming full tank because of conditions there is just so much random damage being thrown around.
-Warriors being able to go full zerk and yet can tank like crazy because Adrenal Heal and endure pain / berserker stance.
-Revenants procing aoe resistance making them one of the most needed class like guardian.

These are just few things. The biggest problem with these things is that it allows every class to tank either you a lot of healing or you do a lot of damage while still tanking hence making a complete melee ball meta.

How does this affect open field WvW?
~When you go out into WvW as a 15-20 men guild group and try to face 30-40 men guild group or a pug blob; almost every single time its guaranteed the larger group will win.

Why?
~Necromancers can go full dire and trailblazer spam conditions through their skills and corruptions on single target then epi on that target allowing them to massive aoe damage. That is also every 13-20 seconds.
*The problem with this is necromancers are being able to do these huge bombs while being able to tank like a frontline heavy class. Necros already have big healthy pool, with dire and trailblazer you end up getting 30k hp, 25k death shroud hp and about 2.9k to 3k armor. This allows a non-skilled player to get away with a lot of things like positioning, being aware of gank squad, knowing when to drop your bomb, etc. This is literally brain dead and frustrating.

~Elementalists are going heal bot because of the stats like minstrel and nomads allowing them to tank so much why constantly healing with their auras. This is really the most boring and pathetic way to play Elementalists. Elementalists are meant for so much more than just be heal bot.
*Elemetalists were part of the big bombs back in the day. Playing elementalist was not easy, you had to worry about positioning, providing group supports with water fields, providing big bombs when needed, worry about enemy gank, etc. It took skilled to play elementalist and when you mastered it, it was one of the most satisfying feeling. It wasn’t brain dead like the current elementalist play style.. just heal and tank.. Pathetic.

~Guardians currently are forced to run either hammer/staff or mace shield/staff because everything is a ball. All guardians do now is go full tank / healing power and provide stab and be cc/aegis spam and also if any ally go down stack res him because mercy runes.
*Again same thing with this. Its brain dead, pathetic and boring. Guardians currently run 3.2k armor to 3.6k armor with 400-1000 healing power. This is not fun. As a guardian player I find this really boring, I miss using greatsword. Right now you push into enemy big blob and then just kitten. I wanna go back to leaping into a bomb, dodge back out, get a regroup. No circle dance please.

Warriors, warriors are fun to play because you can go full zerk and be tanky at the same time because adrenal heal + healing signet can heal you for around 800 with mango pies almost a 1000, now on top of that you have double endure pain and berserker stance.
*This is really broken. Adrenal Heal needs a nerf you shouldn’t heal for so much. Healing signet procs heal for about 350 about every second and adrenal heal is somewhere between 450 to 500 adding up to 700-800 per second. Adrenal heal needs to get nerf so it only heal from somewhere between 150-250 per second and adding up to 500-600 per second. Also the berseker warrior dps is a little out of hands and needs to be toned down a bit.

~Revenant, revenant is that one that can do everything. It can do a lot of damage, can provide boon upkeep, provides boon corrupt, provides aoe resistance and that hammer of course.
*One thing I dislike about revenant is the hammer. Hammer has 1200 range and does a lot of damage specially CoR. You can run revenant with like 2.8k armor and still do crazy damage because of skills are set up that way and the traits provide so much extra dps especially the one that doubles your fury from 20% to 40%.. thats broken. Hammer auto range is fine at 1200, CoR range needs to be 900, phase smash needs to be 900 and drop the hammer needs to be 900. Also the staff 5 surge of the mists needs a procing time, currently the skill goes off instantly, there needs to be 1/4-3/4 seconds for the skill to proc. I know revenants got dps nerf in PvP which was good that is also needed in WvW.

Mesmers, Mesmer has one role either be condition spammer to help out with epidemic or be support boon duration.
*Condition mesmers have been really annoying and strong since release of HoT. You can spam conditions too quickly and too much. Its like ghost thief which people have been asking for it to.be nerfed but hasn’t been nerfed (I guess someone needs to solo raid boss on this). The boon duration full wandrer or minstrel build.. ugh same thing over and over boring mindless brain dead pathetic play style. Its not engaging and nor fun.

~Thief, thief was big part of the gank squad but with the meta making every class full tank frontline thief got out of the meta and still cant find its place back into group fights because everything is a ball.

~Rangers, I don’t mind druids being heal bot because it allows rangers to be part of group fights and not just be excluded. It gives rangers to be supportive rather than do nothing but I also think longbow dps druids can be a good select for gank squad if it ever comes back.

With all the stuff I just wrote what I am trying to get at is the current play style of WvW is boring its just mindless zerging “You blob I blob”. Zerg busting gave guilds a goal to work toward, it created passion between players for WvW, players spent hours learning and perfecting things. There was dedication. That doesn’t exist anymore hence why players are leaving WvW and the game because there is no overall “goal” there is no excitement, there is no more adrenaline rush between players. Most guilds hate raiding in WvW because they know if you don’t blob you will just get blobbed because power creep, player skills, and knowledge of the game.

This is what players want back and this is what will bring new and old players back:
https://youtu.be/BaRGUCXfqfQ
https://youtu.be/_VtltX0Sc84
https://youtu.be/b-hYOiAUiFw

Arena Net, I just have one request. I know a lot of thing is wrong with WvW but if you want to keep the current players playing WvW please give us a goal to work towards; which is zerg busting. I miss zerg busting , thats my passion and I want that to be my goal. So please give us more Wvw specific class balance that will help smaller groups a lot more.

I want the back in which you had backline, gank and frontline. It’s a perfect fundamental idea. Everyone had a role and goal to achieve not this silly melee ball circle stuff. I wanna leap in as a frontliner while my backliner drop massive bombs and watch those massive downs once again and then watch my gank clean up the downs. I miss that. Bring it back please.

TLDR: Zerg busting was the main reason and goal for guilds to build upon. With the current meta every class is a “frontliner” and making it just a numbers game which is boring and not fun. Guilds not being able to zerg bust is the reason why most guilds are either quiting or not taking things seriously. WvW right now is just a pathetic condition spam, full healbot and tanky braindead endless zerging. Players and guilds aren’t enjoying that. The meta needs to go back to having frontline/ backline / gank the guilds who understood that only became stronger because they understoon things like positioning, regroups. ganking lows and enemy backiner… that was skilled play which allowd guilds to zerg bust. Right now everything is just a ball and everyone just zerg each other down. Its boring pathetic brain dead and not fun to play at all. Condition damage needs to b nerfed and so does healbot bs.

Guilds can’t zergbust because all guild that know how to play have stopped playing like 3 years ago. Guilds nowadays are like pugs that have same tag. No wonder they can’t win against bigger PUG zerg because bigger zerg is many times much more skilled.

Zergbusting is still a thing and some guilds/groups work as a Calvary group. I know of at least 1 Calvary commander who lives for zerg busting (When his group is on…which is part of the problem).

Gruenthorr.3625:

~Elementalists are going heal bot because of the stats like minstrel and nomads allowing them to tank so much why constantly healing with their auras. This is really the most boring and pathetic way to play Elementalists. Elementalists are meant for so much more than just be heal bot.

And yet throughout the entire lifetime of GW2 people have always been like “no trinity, why cant I play healer in GW2 this game suuuuuuuuuuuck!”…

Also your warrior calculation is wrong, its ~1000hp/s.

I don’t get it. Op whine that zerg busting isn’t possible and then wanna nerf all zerg busting tools.

All I’d say is, what zerg busting?

Sure early in the game I remember RG, VotF, etc doing it, but then that was because they had worked out the “meta” and how to fight large scale whilst most players/guilds had not, but since then I saw it very little.

Maybe it is because I have always played on servers that have been “fighting” servers and had decent guilds on them so the zergs had a lot of those players in / zergs were sometimes open raids, or that I have generally been selective about which commanders I follow when I bother to zerg it up, or that I don’t play on NA (I hear the zergs were bad on NA), but it has been 3+ years since I remember being in a zerg that was busted and that only happened due to surprise.

I’ve blobbed it up against TA and there was no “zergbusting”, it seemed more they were trying to see how long they could sustain against 60+ players which granted was noticeably longer than other guilds, maybe if I had played on a server like AR (sorry AR) or bothered to follow “fun” tags then I may have witnessed more “zergbusting”.

But when your zerg has 25 GvG players in it, 30 experienced players, only a few rallybots and a decent commander, largely using the “right” builds and in correct groups, then there is no “zerg busting” and never has been, GW2 is simply not a high skill game (WvW even more so).

Frankly I’ve seen the opposite quite often, remember when FSP was stacked a year or so pre-HoT, there were zergs there that would fight 3 guilds at once.

If zerg has veteran players in it you are not going to bust it anytime soon. Doesn’t matter which builds you play.

Listening to Sacrx drive is terrible. Can’t stand the screaming drivers tbh

RG’s best move was to retire when they did.

Gruenthorr.3625:

~Revenant, revenant is that one that can do everything. It can do a lot of damage, can provide boon upkeep, provides boon corrupt, provides aoe resistance and that hammer of course.
One thing I dislike about revenant is the hammer. Hammer has 1200 range and does a lot of damage specially CoR. You can run revenant with like 2.8k armor and still do crazy damage because of skills are set up that way and the traits provide so much extra dps especially the one that doubles your fury from 20% to 40%.. thats broken. Hammer auto range is fine at 1200, CoR range needs to be 900, phase smash needs to be 900 and drop the hammer needs to be 900. Also the staff 5 surge of the mists needs a procing time, currently the skill goes off instantly, there needs to be 1/4-3/4 seconds for the skill to proc. I know revenants got dps nerf in PvP which was good that is also needed in WvW.

Have you played rev at all? Do you know that you can always comfortably walk, not dodge, out of the way of CoR unless you’re chilled or something? You may have to dodge phase smash and drop the hammer if they’re targeted right on top of you, but that’s exactly why we can dodge in the first place: to avoid damage and cc. Also, these skills are all rather slow, just like everything else hammers do, meaning you have plenty of time to react. What would even be the intended goal of reducing the range on those skills? How is the hammer’s range of all things causing you problems with dealing with hammer revs?

Do you know how much power damage a rev, or any class for that matter, loses when it gives up offensive stats for defensive ones to reach 2800 armour? Yes, you mentioned revs having access to traits which boost damage, but those do not make up the difference even at ~2400 armour, which is what most revs will have because they’re likely running marauder’s or commander’s stats with durability runes.

Finally, do you know the difference between boon corrupt and boon strip? Banish Enchantment has a range of 600, btw; just kite the rev and use some reflects or blocks if the hammer’s AA is giving you trouble. I understand it applies confusion, but that shouldn’t be a problem unless the rev is a condi rev and you, for some reason, decided to not have any condi clear ready in wvw and have forgotten how to kite.

Please stop, you people keep overthinking everything. The only issue is the really low amount of players in WvW since there’s nothing on it for them.
I got no real issues with any of the “problems” you listed and holy kitten it is clear that you haven’t ever touched a Revenant in PvP or WvW.

XxsdgxX.8109:

“holy kitten it is clear that you haven’t ever touched a Revenant in PvP or WvW”.

Revenant in PvP got nerfed pretty bad and it does need a bit buff. While rev was nerfed in PvP it wasn’t nerf in WvW. Revs in WvW can do a lot more dps while being tanky because of extra buffs you can get from traits / food and stones. My friend runs 2.8kish armor rev and can easily get 12k-18k CoR last hit.

Revenant hammer damage and range is one of the reason why staff zerk eles went out of meta in WvW.

Power revenant out dps power necromancer. Revenants have lower cooldowns and does more dps. Necromancers well bomb has higher cooldowns but its not rare that most of the damage grts mitigated by the amount of tank people are running. Lich used to be big part of necro well bomb, but now even Lich doesn’t do that much damage.. the only useful skill on Lich now is mark 5 for book corrupts and thats it.

Dawdler.8521:

Gruenthorr.3625:

~Elementalists are going heal bot because of the stats like minstrel and nomads allowing them to tank so much why constantly healing with their auras. This is really the most boring and pathetic way to play Elementalists. Elementalists are meant for so much more than just be heal bot.

And yet throughout the entire lifetime of GW2 people have always been like “no trinity, why cant I play healer in GW2 this game suuuuuuuuuuuck!”…

Well, people don’t actually know what they want. No surprise.

People’s understanding of the game have caught up over the years, what was easily doable in the past like zerg busting is now much harder. Nowadays, to do zerg busting require even better understanding of the game, especially when the meta has shifted much from the past. New guilds made up of uncommitted or casual players will find it very hard to perform zerg busting. That’s the reality now.

Gruenthorr.3625:

*One thing I dislike about revenant is the hammer. Hammer has 1200 range and does a lot of damage specially CoR. You can run revenant with like 2.8k armor and still do crazy damage because of skills are set up that way and the traits provide so much extra dps especially the one that doubles your fury from 20% to 40%.. thats broken. Hammer auto range is fine at 1200, CoR range needs to be 900, phase smash needs to be 900 and drop the hammer needs to be 900. Also the staff 5 surge of the mists needs a procing time, currently the skill goes off instantly, there needs to be 1/4-3/4 seconds for the skill to proc. I know revenants got dps nerf in PvP which was good that is also needed in WvW.

Why do people still cry about hammer rev? It got nerfed like hell, autohitting a blob isnt more helpful than any ranger (so its not). CoR is MORE than obvious. Try playing hammer backline, and feel how squishy you are even with 3k armor.

Aury.1367:

Gruenthorr.3625:

*One thing I dislike about revenant is the hammer. Hammer has 1200 range and does a lot of damage specially CoR. You can run revenant with like 2.8k armor and still do crazy damage because of skills are set up that way and the traits provide so much extra dps especially the one that doubles your fury from 20% to 40%.. thats broken. Hammer auto range is fine at 1200, CoR range needs to be 900, phase smash needs to be 900 and drop the hammer needs to be 900. Also the staff 5 surge of the mists needs a procing time, currently the skill goes off instantly, there needs to be 1/4-3/4 seconds for the skill to proc. I know revenants got dps nerf in PvP which was good that is also needed in WvW.

Why do people still cry about hammer rev? It got nerfed like hell, autohitting a blob isnt more helpful than any ranger (so its not). CoR is MORE than obvious. Try playing hammer backline, and feel how squishy you are even with 3k armor.

Revenant is not allowed to be “viable” in any game mode! Raids and specially PvP (completely extinct there) already got it right! /s

Arkaile.5604:

Gruenthorr.3625:

~Revenant, revenant is that one that can do everything. It can do a lot of damage, can provide boon upkeep, provides boon corrupt, provides aoe resistance and that hammer of course.
One thing I dislike about revenant is the hammer. Hammer has 1200 range and does a lot of damage specially CoR. You can run revenant with like 2.8k armor and still do crazy damage because of skills are set up that way and the traits provide so much extra dps especially the one that doubles your fury from 20% to 40%.. thats broken. Hammer auto range is fine at 1200, CoR range needs to be 900, phase smash needs to be 900 and drop the hammer needs to be 900. Also the staff 5 surge of the mists needs a procing time, currently the skill goes off instantly, there needs to be 1/4-3/4 seconds for the skill to proc. I know revenants got dps nerf in PvP which was good that is also needed in WvW.

Banish Enchantment has a range of 600, btw; just kite the rev and use some reflects or blocks if the hammer’s AA is giving you trouble. I understand it applies confusion, but that shouldn’t be a problem unless the rev is a condi rev and you, for some reason, decided to not have any condi clear ready in wvw and have forgotten how to kite.

Kite the rev? He’s talking about fighting zergs, not roaming encounters.

Gruenthorr.3625:

Zerg Busting is the reason I fell in love with WvW.
-Warriors being able to go full zerk and yet can tank like crazy because Adrenal Heal and endure pain / berserker stance.

Warriors, warriors are fun to play because you can go full zerk and be tanky at the same time because adrenal heal + healing signet can heal you for around 800 with mango pies almost a 1000, now on top of that you have double endure pain and berserker stance.
*This is really broken. Adrenal Heal needs a nerf you shouldn’t heal for so much. Healing signet procs heal for about 350 about every second and adrenal heal is somewhere between 450 to 500 adding up to 700-800 per second. Adrenal heal needs to get nerf so it only heal from somewhere between 150-250 per second and adding up to 500-600 per second. Also the berseker warrior dps is a little out of hands and needs to be toned down a bit.

The only reason you can go full zerk and deeps on war is because of other classes providing crazy healing and boonstacking.
Without heal ele, guard and rev you really think warrior would sustain zerg dmg with 800 hp/s ?? L M A O

zerg busting is easier than ever before with the boon stacking and healing available in hot. takes no skill either. life as a pug is kitten in hot.. when you could previously outplay/outswarm a bad guild group and punish their players who made a fault – now they just need to get the mechanics of boon stacking and healing down and no pug group of equal or a bit larger size can even put up a fight anymore. pugs cant make a contribution to fights against guild groups anymore in HoT and this is a major let down for a game that is supposed to be casual-friendly. hot has provided tools for every organized group to farm pugs easymode when previously you actually needed some skill. free condi immunity, free -33% incoming damage, massive aoe heals – no random players can outskill that stuff.

Well I guess I’m playing my DH wrong because I run staff/GS pretty much all the time. I do carry a hammer but hate the thing & don’t use it. I also run durability runes and not mercy runes. You are right on the armor (3.3k) and heal power (right at 600).

Jaina Ashlynn.1043:

Well I guess I’m playing my DH wrong because I run staff/GS pretty much all the time. I do carry a hammer but hate the thing & don’t use it. I also run durability runes and not mercy runes. You are right on the armor (3.3k) and heal power (right at 600).

Acctuly you are doing it wrong by going DH.

Mesmer has been nerfed . Dire does not contains healing power and with last changes to restorative illusion condi mesmer with rabid/dire/trabalizer lost a part of survivability ( in spvp meta has moved from carrion to sage with contains IP ). So i am not saying that condi mesmer is weak or it is not strong, but it is not OP as before …

SloRules.3560:

Jaina Ashlynn.1043:

Well I guess I’m playing my DH wrong because I run staff/GS pretty much all the time. I do carry a hammer but hate the thing & don’t use it. I also run durability runes and not mercy runes. You are right on the armor (3.3k) and heal power (right at 600).

Acctuly you are doing it wrong by going DH.

Matter of opinion on that and I’m not the only one doing it “wrong” given the number of DH I run across. I run the elite trap because the rest of the elites are basically useless. The spear of justice is handy for getting the ones that try and get away assuming they don’t have stab or a block. I also carry, and at times use, the longbow to help pin down enemy players. There have been several times, when not running with the pack, that I needed the extra range from the bow and couldn’t use it because of core guardian.

CrimeMaker.8612:

XxsdgxX.8109:

“holy kitten it is clear that you haven’t ever touched a Revenant in PvP or WvW”.

Revenant in PvP got nerfed pretty bad and it does need a bit buff. While rev was nerfed in PvP it wasn’t nerf in WvW. Revs in WvW can do a lot more dps while being tanky because of extra buffs you can get from traits / food and stones. My friend runs 2.8kish armor rev and can easily get 12k-18k CoR last hit.

Revenant hammer damage and range is one of the reason why staff zerk eles went out of meta in WvW.

Power revenant out dps power necromancer. Revenants have lower cooldowns and does more dps. Necromancers well bomb has higher cooldowns but its not rare that most of the damage grts mitigated by the amount of tank people are running. Lich used to be big part of necro well bomb, but now even Lich doesn’t do that much damage.. the only useful skill on Lich now is mark 5 for book corrupts and thats it.

I really don’t care if ANet nerfs Rev in WvW because I stopped raiding in WvW like 5 months ago and currently only roam, but I must say that Revenant is pretty much a piece of crap which, in his large team builds, totally rely on the existence of the Guardian for the stability and cleansing on demand to survive, and in its roaming build, at equal level of skill, is outmatched for most of the other classes. The comparison is particulary laughlable vs Necromancer, because once a Necro chills you as a Rev, you’re dead, plain and simple.

Jaina Ashlynn.1043:

SloRules.3560:

Jaina Ashlynn.1043:

Well I guess I’m playing my DH wrong because I run staff/GS pretty much all the time. I do carry a hammer but hate the thing & don’t use it. I also run durability runes and not mercy runes. You are right on the armor (3.3k) and heal power (right at 600).

Acctuly you are doing it wrong by going DH.

Matter of opinion on that and I’m not the only one doing it “wrong” given the number of DH I run across. I run the elite trap because the rest of the elites are basically useless. The spear of justice is handy for getting the ones that try and get away assuming they don’t have stab or a block. I also carry, and at times use, the longbow to help pin down enemy players. There have been several times, when not running with the pack, that I needed the extra range from the bow and couldn’t use it because of core guardian.

And those people are also doing it wrong, DH just sacrifices too much compared to core guardian and that is what pretty much every guild figured out shortly after HOT released.

If you want to roam, just use a different build, like everyone does that.

EDIT: Nvm… I’ve just seen you are NA, do as you like.

DH in zerg busting groups…with bow and elite trap, smh. There are a handful of groups on NA that are actual zerg busting groups, but 95% that tout themselves as such don’t know zerg busting from holes in the ground.

The best I’ve found was a “serious/busting” group on TC a few months back. The driver would put down a squad marker for everyone to go to, then put down another one on/near the enemy group and just say “ok dps there” and just sit still on the first marker. Any push by the other group was met with a full retreat and then the markers would be redone. Rinse and repeat. I left their TS just to get on my old guild’s TS just to tell everyone what I was seeing. Truly marvelous.

There is only roaming and trolling now.

Im surprised people are still complaining about this,

Some complain that condis are out of control, ive never seen so much condi cleanse in WvW, light field blast,

Instead of asking for nerfs/buffs maybe WvW needs the sPvP treatment, where you cannot use PvE armor/weapons, and NO food.

The OP said that necros can build up condis on a single target then epi them, unless that target is an NPC with a crazy amount of life, this tends not to happen, normal players would either cleanse before epi could be dropped, or be downed, yes you can drop epi on a downed player, but again if your zerg is big enough, that player tends to be killed/spiked before epi goes off.

Im guessing more and more of these complaints these days are from people who are getting killed by a certain class/classes and want them nerfed as they don’t play them.

zedapoc.1493:

DH in zerg busting groups…with bow and elite trap, smh.

I find it far more entertaining to time the trap to blow up people. As far as the bow goes; strictly depends on the situation. Only thing I really care about is whether or not I enjoyed the gaming session at the end of the day. Telling me or anyone else they are wrong because they don’t play like you think it should be played is nothing more than being an elitist male member. If you enjoy being nothing more than a hammer wielding, stab spamming rez bot; more power to you. I have to agree with the OP….it is boring as heck.