Guild Wars 2

I know I’m an outsider, refer to the ‘this is what we get for creating an everyone wins society’.

I get it, the ping is terrible. The problem? I don’t work at Anet so I have really no vested interest in that. I suppose it stopped people from playing crab toss, so you all took turns letting each other hold the crab? Or with dragon ball, so they spammed chat hoping the other team would have pity?

I think it is a case of sprint taking a bit of thinking, and people simply do not like thinking. Sure it has utterly random (and stupid) moments, like the aspect power-up or the warp one, but for the most part there are a whole 3 or 4 jumps that might get you in trouble with lightning pull.

I dunno, but then again I’m also adamantly against portal use for the jumping inept…so I get to play bad guy there too I guess.

zityz.6089:

Besides, unless you have “God walking amongst mere mortals” or any of that title track personally, your not impressing anyone with your “elite status”.

Well, even that title doesn’t impress me much.

Always fun to wait at the end by the chest /dancing, and have someone who is trying really hard to win their first race finally come chugging across the line after a bit.

“XXXXXXDDDDDDDD! Yes! OMG Yes! … Wait… How did I get first when you’re already here?”

“The secret is #magswag.”

…

“???”

Makes me all warm and fuzzy, and I’m not even playing a Charr.

VinylScratch,

I think you may have missed a few episodes of the show in which I’m assuming you’re name is in reference to. You know, the show that teaches lessons like understanding, caring, sharing, empathy, and not trying to always be the best at the expense of others.

It’s your right to do whatever you want in that race. If you’re unable to understand why coming in first every time may be due to reasons other than because you think you’re the best, then there isn’t much anyone can say.

In the end, you’re under no obligation to be considerate. You’re well within your rights to play the game as you see fit. I just hope when it’s all said and done, you feel good about denying others that may not have the same advantages as you.

Vinyl, if you are a good gamer, odds are you were able to get 1st place within your first 5-10 races and then consistently place top 3. I can tell you right now that there are people who have raced 20 times and not come in first. Do you think it was lack of trying? Not putting in the effort?

They’ve played more games than I have and still haven’t placed first. What lesson do you honestly think you are teaching them by not allowing them to win? Patience and hardwork? Teaching them how to fish rather than give them a fish? No, you are teaching them that there are kittens in this world. Something I’m sure they are coming to a fantasy world to escape.

Show some human decency for crying out loud.

People,

Just as we should not be pressured to not wait at the line, we in turn should not pressure Vinyl or any other to concede their wins. That is their personal choice and they are no less a person for choosing it.

Amazing. We have the OP thanking other players for being kind. Then we have the “L33T guys” come in here complaining that the folks trying to help their fellow players are not playing the game correctly.

One of said “L33T guys” made his own post condemning the “kind folks”, and now he’s here whining about it again. For Christ’s sake, if you wanna win, then run your little kitten off. If you win, fine. If you don’t, then mind your own business and let players help other players if they wish. It’s hard not to loose faith in your fellow man, when you run into people/mentalities like this.

To the players that run a hard race and give it their all….good for you, theres nothing wrong with that. To the players helping out your fellow players…..bless you. To the players complaining about that…..I pity you.

VinylScratch.3461:

Yamori.9781:

Can’t see any reason not to help other people get their titles, at least not one that makes any sense. Thank you to all the people helping out others get their titles and points. If you don’t feel like helping out that’s your choice. Don’t really see how it makes you a better person by showing other people up in a mini-game but so be it.

My reasoning follows an ends justify the means form of justification.

An old saying states: “Give a man a fish, you feed him for a day, teach a man to fish, you feed him for a lifetime.”

Let’s analyze this into the situation at hand now. I can give someone a free win and they can have their title, I’ve essentially just given them a fish. But the next event that has a title earned by a similar criteria, they’ll have no idea what to do and require another handout.

I can also beat them and hinder their progress in hopes that in order to get what they want, they’ll look towards accepting trial and error, and the principle of failure leading to success. The odds of this are very rare however, most people nowadays will just ragequit and find the handout somewhere else. But that’s not an issue I induce, that’s more of a personality flaw on their part if they’re not willing to put in the effort to kick it up a notch when it’s necessary and would rather find the easier road.

However, some times, and it does happen, you get that one guy who you spark the fire inside of them and they take each failure as a lesson and eventually beat you and earn their title. Actually happened to me about four hours before I went to work today. I had raced a guy eight times in a row, he eventually beat me and sent me a whisper saying pretty much he just wanted to beat me so bad he looked for every shortcut and made sure to win sooner or later. It happened and I was actually happy for him.

The above paragraph is a factual account and an example of teaching a man to fish. He earned his title, and now with the next title he seeks, I’m more than certain he’s going to apply himself to finding every trick he can to secure his goal.

In the event it works, the end result definitely justifies my means. In the event they get upset and quit and view me as one of the world’s biggest pricks, ohh well. Like I care what a bunch of internet people think about me or my strange way of teaching people to push themselves on a game.

Do you teach a person to fish by showing them how easily you do it? Or would you perhaps set the hook, and then hand them the reel the first time?

I prefer to think of it as holding the door for someone. Once you have the achieve, much like holding a door, all it costs you is a little time. There is no benefit to finishing first, once you’ve gotten your achieve, for anything other than ego.

I find this entire thing an interesting look into the human mind.

Sounds likes ome people feel they are “entitled” to be the only ones with the title.

Calmthestorm.1479:

Just wanted to give a big thanks to everyone in the community in sanctum sprint who after winning the title are waiting at the finish line in first so someone else has a chance for the achievement and title. Speaks volumes about a community that has people willing to this and wanted you to know that that genorosity was repaid this morning when I had the race handily in first, and hope that keeps getting passed on!

Your welcome

There is absolutely no reason not to wait at the finishing line. Say you arrived first, and have the title already. What does crossign the line first give you?

Do you get better loot? No.
Do you get a new title? No.
Do you get some kind of points that accumulate somewhere? No.
Do you gain some extra fame by doing this? No, people will dislike you more or not even notice.
and so on…

If you wait, there are only positives. You may make someone happy, and people will know anyway you were first, so it’s not like your ego will be damaged.

With the current design, shame on people who repeatedly win and take 1st place, sorry to say it. Especially if they know exactly what they are doing – denying achievements for others. It’s like camping the WvW jumping puzzle.

However, if ANet changed some things, and added a time trial into the picture, with new achievements, say, reach the end within 3 minutes, or Beat the current record holder.. then of course everyone would have a valid reason to cross the finishing line first. This race doesn’t work this way though.

Umm … there actually are better rewards for coming in first. A couple more silver, 300 more karma, and a handful more quartz crystal.

Not enough to get me to stop helping others, but the rewards are there.

Hi guys,
Firstly, to those who have generously helped others win the race by holding themselves back, I tip my hat to you. What a great gesture.

Now my solution to the dilemna we have here is that:
If you want to wait at the finish line to let others win, please do so without letting them know it in advance. Don’t reveal your intention if you really want to help them in the best way. Thus people still at least think that they have to try their best to get the achievement.

I got the Title on my own on my 7th or 8th run and I am very happy. I would never have thought to ask for it.

However.

I think it would be a great improvement and solve all these problems by having a match-making set-up. That way people who have more trouble are grouped together and people who keep winning and want to have more competitive matches are grouped together – BOTH parties get what they want ! That way the people with the high latency will be competing against each other on a “fair” field so that they have a chance to get it “fairly”.

As it is, those people really have no chance so after I got my win I admit I don’t try to “compete” any more. I firmly believe that high latency is just something you should expect being far away from a server and “play at your own risk” applies – and that it’s unrealistic to expect ANet to just get a server in Australia when even the giant money eatbeast that is WoW hasn’t been able to do that. BUT – I do believe that there’s nothing wrong with being nice and helping others, either.

I helped a few people get passed me while I was doing the crowd fav achievement. I didnt see a point in getting first over and over. Otherwise I think the community would turn into an eye for an eye kind of place or every person for himself. Where Guild Wars 2 is pretty much a place where people can work with each other with no pressure of actually having to beat the other person.

Here’s my story.

When I started Sanctum Sprint, I was coming off getting the achievements for the Sky Crystals. Needless to say I was already in a low mood, because I hate jumping puzzles with a fiery passion and that was basically a night of jumping puzzles. So I was hoping Sanctum Sprint would lift my spirits a bit.

Starting out I wasn’t sure what all the powers did exactly or how to use them, and wasn’t familiar with the course. The first few races I placed 9-12, the next few hovering right around the middle between 5th and 6th. I was definitely learning and progressing, but the goal, that first place finish that would save me having to do two more stupid jump puzzles to get at kites, remained elusive. As the night wore on and I got closer to ticking away the 25-race achievement, first place seemed elusive as ever. I started to get a little frustrated and down.

Then, during one race, as I came up to the finish line I saw two people just standing there – I couldn’t comprehend why. So I bolted through and got first! It was like Christmas morning. I couldn’t believe it – the clouds had parted, I finally had both 1st and 3rd place achievements, I’d have my BotFW meta that very night – I was elated! At the same time, a little sheepish, because I did sense that I had been given the first, rather than earned it.

So, after hitting 25, I kept at it. I became an expert at the abilities, I learned each bit of the course, knew exactly what to fire and when. I perfected a playstyle which focused almost exclusively on using defensive abilities for maximum effect, and in a very short amount of time soared up the ranks, getting to the finish first every time. There is no doubt, at this point, that in a straight up race against an entire group with the Sanctum Sprinter title I could not only hold my own but beat them.

Nonetheless I’ve also remembered the circumstances from when I started. So when I get to the line, if I’m in first place I willingly stand off to let 3 people through. If I can save anyone the intense frustration I feel doing a jump puzzle I will do so gladly, even if it means I get less loot in the equation.

I hope ArenaNet keeps balancing it so these sorts of measures aren’t necessary anymore. I also very much hope that the Sanctum Sprint lives on past BotFW – racing is maybe the most fun I’ve had since starting in the game, and I’d love to see more courses and features (like, say, team racing) added.

BlueSoda.6297:

I agree with VinylScratch. People need to work to earn their achievement points. If they can’t get on their own then they just need to keep trying. It’s not that hard to get if you work at it for a bit.

This is making the title meaningless to those of us who actually earned it.

The achievement has very little value due to all the RNG involved. Lucky that you get poorly performing opponents, lucky that your opponents don’t know the shortcuts lucky that you get opponents in low latency parts of the Earth, lucky that you got good power ups, lucky that your opponents didn’t get good power ups etc. When you consider that there are so many ways to luck yourself into the achievement, what exactly is it measuring at that point?

As far as protecting achievement points, they are just a grind to create the illusion of content at end game. The simple fact is you will never catch up to someone who played since launch and got a tonne of dailies before you (never mind the 500 points people got from GW1, unless you go back and grind them – not a trivial task), or people who did the PvP dailies/monthlies every day as well, or the ones who did all of them. Achievement points are handed out for the dumbest things because it’s a system the developers exploited to “create” content. The design of the achievement system is its own worst enemy. At this point, all it measures is who has been playing the longest and who is the best at grinding out daily tasks (almost all of which can be done with a level 2 character, except for the dungeon one).

I did the sprint something around 15-20 (don’t remember the exact number) times before I came in first. And I came in first by myself, without anyone stopping for me. And to be honest? I had fun and enjoyed every race up til that. I never really cared about getting first place just for an achievement or a title..And when I got first, I was happy that my practice and 15-20 previous races had paid off. It felt kinda like mariokart to me, y’know? And I love mario kart. So winning was fun (in a competitive, gaming way). And it was exciting to get the title cause I love things like jump puzzles, and again this race was really fun and it was nice to now have a title to show that I had done it (and in something I cared about, rather than my “combat healer” or whatever that’s just kinda bleh).

I understand that some people have serious latency problems with this mini-game..But in all honesty? Get over it. We’re not all going to win everything. We’re not all going to get the titles and rewards in every little piece of this game. It’s a race, it’s supposed to be competitive. The reason they gave a title and achievement for first place was to make it competitive and to reward players for mastering the aspects and whatnot. And being a good community is one thing, but this isn’t really a big deal in the overall scheme of guild wars 2. Are you going to be at a huge disadvantage or lose the game of guild wars 2 because you did not come in first at the sanctum sprint? No. It’s a mini-game. If you can’t just enjoy it, then there are plenty of other things for you to do.

I’m not trying to sound mean or stuck-up or anything here, but I feel like people just get so upset over not being able to “win” certain aspects of this game that are SUPPOSED to be challenging. (Of course latency issues are not intended, and I really do feel for anyone dealing with that). But it’s one thing to talk about good community when we’re giving advice on builds, or helping people level up, or working as a team in dungeons or temple runs or whatever. But expecting people to hand you first place in a competitive game, and then calling people who enjoy the competitive aspect of it “inconsiderate”? Come on. This isn’t a matter of we all need to help eachother be better players or work as a team. This isn’t a team race, and to help eachother be better players we would give advice on how to do the race better, maybe help someone practice, encourage people to keep trying. Handing over first place is kind and nice, but what kind of a community is it when we ask to be given something instead of earning it ourselves? And how hypocritical is it to come here to talk about good community and then insult people for pointing out that this was meant to be a competitive game?

I just don’t understand why some people are so obsessed with doing things in this game they don’t enjoy. All for a few achievement points? A title? Because it’s new, limited content and you feel obligated to do it? Why did you buy guild wars 2 if not to enjoy it? Do the content that makes you smile. If you hate jump puzzles, if your latency is so terrible that you can’t enjoy this mini game, why do them? They are optional little pieces to a big game.

Genavelle.9516:

I did the sprint something around 15-20 (don’t remember the exact number) times before I came in first. And I came in first by myself, without anyone stopping for me. And to be honest? I had fun and enjoyed every race up til that. I never really cared about getting first place just for an achievement or a title..And when I got first, I was happy that my practice and 15-20 previous races had paid off. It felt kinda like mariokart to me, y’know? And I love mario kart. So winning was fun (in a competitive, gaming way). And it was exciting to get the title cause I love things like jump puzzles, and again this race was really fun and it was nice to now have a title to show that I had done it (and in something I cared about, rather than my “combat healer” or whatever that’s just kinda bleh).

I agree on everything but jump puzzles. I figure that if I hadn’t got first when I did I nonetheless eventually would have. As my subsequent races have shown, I do have the skill to get it.

But the fact is that some people are in this for the achievement, specifically to knock out bits of the meta achievement, and as long as Sanctum Sprint has this poisonous relationship with the BotFW that’s how it’s going to be. It doesn’t make much sense to me that Sanctum Sprint is shoehorned in there the way it is, but most of the Belcher’s Bluff achievements aren’t, and are sequestered in the Activities category instead.

It would make a whole lot more sense to me to lower the BotFW meta to 12 and put all the Sanctum Sprint achievements into their own category in Activities, alongside Belcher’s Bluff. That way people aren’t feeling pressured to get it taken care of before BotFW concludes, nor do they feel they need to do it to avoid doing the kites or Sky Crystals.

Genavelle.9516:

I understand that some people have serious latency problems with this mini-game..But in all honesty? Get over it. We’re not all going to win everything. We’re not all going to get the titles and rewards in every little piece of this game. It’s a race, it’s supposed to be competitive. The reason they gave a title and achievement for first place was to make it competitive and to reward players for mastering the aspects and whatnot. And being a good community is one thing, but this isn’t really a big deal in the overall scheme of guild wars 2. Are you going to be at a huge disadvantage or lose the game of guild wars 2 because you did not come in first at the sanctum sprint? No. It’s a mini-game. If you can’t just enjoy it, then there are plenty of other things for you to do.

That’s my point – the way it’s structured now isn’t ideal. It doesn’t have to be a no-score soccer game for millenials but the way it’s structured now makes the race an all-or-nothing proposition: you either get first, with all the added loot, achievements and titles that gets, or a pittance. There needs to be a better way to structure the achievements and rewards so that someone who, say, consistently gets 2nd or 3rd place but can’t get 1st for whatever reason isn’t left frustrated, and the rewards from first don’t need to be that much grander than the rest for that matter either.

Genavelle.9516:

I just don’t understand why some people are so obsessed with doing things in this game they don’t enjoy. All for a few achievement points? A title? Because it’s new, limited content and you feel obligated to do it? Why did you buy guild wars 2 if not to enjoy it? Do the content that makes you smile. If you hate jump puzzles, if your latency is so terrible that you can’t enjoy this mini game, why do them? They are optional little pieces to a big game.

You just answered your own question. For me, especially the Sky Crystals, I figured that even if I didn’t enjoy it this was my own good chance to do it and be done with it. I’m glad I found something new to enjoy in Sanctum Sprint, but my point is that getting the achievement itself might spur someone to excel even more at the game than they otherwise would. They now have nothing left to prove but their own skill, and don’t feel stressed by having an unfulfilled achievement hanging over their heads.

terzaerian.8624:

I agree on everything but jump puzzles. I figure that if I hadn’t got first when I did I nonetheless eventually would have. As my subsequent races have shown, I do have the skill to get it.

But the fact is that some people are in this for the achievement, specifically to knock out bits of the meta achievement, and as long as Sanctum Sprint has this poisonous relationship with the BotFW that’s how it’s going to be. It doesn’t make much sense to me that Sanctum Sprint is shoehorned in there the way it is, but most of the Belcher’s Bluff achievements aren’t, and are sequestered in the Activities category instead.

It would make a whole lot more sense to me to lower the BotFW meta to 12 and put all the Sanctum Sprint achievements into their own category in Activities, alongside Belcher’s Bluff. That way people aren’t feeling pressured to get it taken care of before BotFW concludes, nor do they feel they need to do it to avoid doing the kites or Sky Crystals.

That’s my point – the way it’s structured now isn’t ideal. It doesn’t have to be a no-score soccer game for millenials but the way it’s structured now makes the race an all-or-nothing proposition: you either get first, with all the added loot, achievements and titles that gets, or a pittance. There needs to be a better way to structure the achievements and rewards so that someone who, say, consistently gets 2nd or 3rd place but can’t get 1st for whatever reason isn’t left frustrated, and the rewards from first don’t need to be that much grander than the rest for that matter either.

You just answered your own question. For me, especially the Sky Crystals, I figured that even if I didn’t enjoy it this was my own good chance to do it and be done with it. I’m glad I found something new to enjoy in Sanctum Sprint, but my point is that getting the achievement itself might spur someone to excel even more at the game than they otherwise would. They now have nothing left to prove but their own skill, and don’t feel stressed by having an unfulfilled achievement hanging over their heads.

I think the difference with the grouping is that Belcher’s Bluff is a permanent addition to the game, and will be available to players even after BotFW is gone, but Sanctum Sprint is part of the temporary BotFW content. Although I would REALLY love for them to keep it permanently, or atleast another similar race-type mini game. I loved that while in the past we had dragon ball, crab toss, etc all these really pvp type games that were sorta similar..Then they make a race. It would be great to start making permanent mini-game activities, especially a wide variety of things like a race, maybe one little pvp type thing, and some other cooler things we haven’t seen yet.

And yeah..I would also love it if we could find a way, either through a better way to match up people in instances, or a better way to tie achievements into these things, or whatever, that we could get these mini-games and such to really be just games. I feel that Sanctum Sprint and similar activities would be a lot more enjoyable to me, if everybody were on the same page. Like I want to race against people who want to race. Not people who just want an achievement, not people who want to stand by and let others win. I just want a good, old-fashioned, race lol. And if we could have different “servers” where you can pick and choose, like at spvp, so we could split up people who want to race competitively and people who just want achievements, etc, I feel it would just be a lot better for everyone. People who want achievements could join a match where everyone gets a turn to win. They don’t have to stress over not winning, or beg to win, or whatever. People who want to be competitive can be competitive. Everyone’s happy, and we don’t get people begging and complaining and people complaining about people begging and complaining everywhere.

I was happy to help ^^

I’ll be perfectly honest I think it’s completely unnecessary to wait for people to get first, when you’re clearly first. It’s nice, but it’s unnecessary.

What’s an achievement, and a title, if everybody just gets it? How is it an achievement if you haven’t earned it? This isn’t a Jumping Puzzle where it’s awesome to help everyone, it’s a race. By definition it’s “a competition between participants to see which is the fastest in covering a set course”. (Google) There are other things you can achieve right? Maybe this one just isn’t for you if nobody is letting you win?

>But some people can’t control it properly, like latency!

Sure okay, so does that mean people who get AP chests, Legendaries, limited armor sets etc shouldn’t get them because “Oh I can’t get it because I don’t have enough free time to play, so why should they get what I can’t get?” Just because I can’t/won’t/shouldn’t invest my free time like those with 10k AP, does that mean they shouldn’t get the award just because I refuse to for whatever reasonable reason?

How is it right to call someone “selfish”, “waaaaaaaaaaaay in their competitive heads”, “evil”, when you’re the one unable to do the race and demand others to stop just for you? “Taking advantage of nice people”? Aren’t you doing that when you demand someone stop for you by calling them derogatory names? There should be no obligation to do this, and when people do it, it’s nice! And threads like these for those nice people are awesome! But don’t expect it like some spoilt child.

Go to any sporting event, nobody on any team with any sportsmanship is going to say “Hey kitten you guy! Why the kitten did you score a goal/pass the finish like/hit a home run? We can’t get the cup because of you! Selfish prick”

By the way, I’m connecting from an Oceanic region, lag is bad, and I’ve never complained about it.

EDIT: Also, only 2ish-k APs, no legendaries, only manage to play like an hour or so a day if at all. Before someone presumes my posts are invalid because “They’re just some neckbeard crazy 24/7 player.” :S

If I choose to finish second and let someone else get the achievement when I could have taken first I still feel like I won, only better.

SynfulChaot.3169:

People,

Just as we should not be pressured to not wait at the line, we in turn should not pressure Vinyl or any other to concede their wins. That is their personal choice and they are no less a person for choosing it.

I don’t think people were asking him to concede his wins. They were criticizing his attitude towards those who let people win. At least most of the replies I read seemed to be saying that.

I think a lot of people are like me. They just want that stupid quartz node for their home instance and would rather get the progress towards that as much as possible in the fun race than go do annoying jumping puzzles that they hate. I’ve only gotten as close as running in 3rd place for a while but not all the way to the end where it counts.

If it were just knowing the route I could do it, I just get knocked off the platforms by the traps. Is there anyway to tell a trap is there? What’s the strategy on not being slowed down by the traps? Other than of course being in front of people placing them?

I’m not going to get into this big ethical debate of whether people should let others win for the sake of an achievement or not. I am however, going to say a big thanks to the group that let me get it. I’m getting better at Sprint, but don’t know (or want to know) the cheats and don’t know if I’d ever get the win. I popped in, mentioned that I hadn’t gotten the 1st place achievement yet and on race #3 they all stopped for me. Thanks guys! After that, it was back to business as usual.

I’ll also comment on the community, great stuff letting people get the chance to get the title. I would do the same…except i’m always in the back due to the severe lag and rubberbanding in this zone…

I’m starting to really hate you elitist people, thinking you’re better than everyone just because you let people go first. Just got people calling me names because I got won. Or maybe it’s just my server being childish about it…

Kexin.5946:

I’m starting to really hate you elitist people, thinking you’re better than everyone just because you let people go first. Just got people calling me names because I got won. Or maybe it’s just my server being childish about it…

They are, in fact, better humans for allowing others to go ahead of them.

It is in no way a requirement, but they do it to help their fellow man. If you don’t think that makes them better human beings, then you, sir, are deluding yourself.

I don’t think anyone should be mad that someone didn’t let them get first (since it is a race and the best man should win), but those that do let people go ahead should be given the accolades that come with being a kind, compassionate human being.

Jeering those that win constantly and don’t let you win = bad.
Cheering those that allow others to win = good
Winning constantly even though you’ve gotten all the achievements = neutral, you are allowed to do this and you shouldn’t be vilified for it.

That’s pretty much it.

Draknar.5748:

I don’t think anyone should be mad that someone didn’t let them get first (since it is a race and the best man should win), but those that do let people go ahead should be given the accolades that come with being a kind, compassionate human being.

Jeering those that win constantly and don’t let you win = bad.
Cheering those that allow others to win = good
Winning constantly even though you’ve gotten all the achievements = neutral, you are allowed to do this and you shouldn’t be vilified for it.

Got it spot on, there. ^.^

Draknar.5748:

Kexin.5946:

I’m starting to really hate you elitist people, thinking you’re better than everyone just because you let people go first. Just got people calling me names because I got won. Or maybe it’s just my server being childish about it…

They are, in fact, better humans for allowing others to go ahead of them.

It is in no way a requirement, but they do it to help their fellow man. If you don’t think that makes them better human beings, then you, sir, are deluding yourself.

I don’t think anyone should be mad that someone didn’t let them get first (since it is a race and the best man should win), but those that do let people go ahead should be given the accolades that come with being a kind, compassionate human being.

Jeering those that win constantly and don’t let you win = bad.
Cheering those that allow others to win = good
Winning constantly even though you’ve gotten all the achievements = neutral, you are allowed to do this and you shouldn’t be vilified for it.

That’s pretty much it.

Dude you’re actually making a judgement on my character, my worth as a person and how good I am as a human, all of these things according to you are apparently less than someone who lets people win, because I race in a race? That’s a pretty big jump there. I could just as easily judge that you’re shallow because you’re making such crazy presumptions about somebody halfway across the world just because they don’t do whatYOU want? Stupid right?

I hadn’t bothered winning for the past hour, then one race I decided to try and ended up getting first. Got slagged off by one of you elitist hand holders, being verbally abused even though I was doing what THEY consider to be “being the better human” for the past hour.

It’s like you seek validation in letting people win, like it makes you feel good about yourself, and if someone else wins then you can’t be Mr Messiah so you decide to swear and abuse anyone who doesn’t let I you be a martyr.

You’re not better people if you treat others like that. I didn’t kill your dog or steal your girlfriend. I raced in a race. Get off your high horse.

Kexin.5946:

Dude you’re actually making a judgement on my character, my worth as a person and how good I am as a human, all of these things according to you are apparently less than someone who lets people win, because I race in a race? That’s a pretty big jump there. I could just as easily judge that you’re shallow because you’re making such crazy presumptions about somebody halfway across the world just because they don’t do whatYOU want? Stupid right?

You’re reading things that aren’t there, Kex. We’re saying that those that help others are more compassionate and more altruistic. Nothing more. You’re not a bad person for winning. But you’re not as helpful or altruistic either. That isn’t a bad thing. Not at all. We’re not saying you should throw your races. We’re asking you not to look down on us that do.

Kexin.5946:

I hadn’t bothered winning for the past hour, then one race I decided to try and ended up getting first. Got slagged off by one of you elitist hand holders, being verbally abused even though I was doing what THEY consider to be “being the better human” for the past hour.

Anyone who insults those who choose to take their own win is just being a kitten. None of us have supported people who do that. We dislike them as much as you do. There is a difference between helping others as you are a good person and it being demanded that you help them. One is acceptable. One is not.

Kexin.5946:

It’s like you seek validation in letting people win, like it makes you feel good about yourself, and if someone else wins then you can’t be Mr Messiah so you decide to swear and abuse anyone who doesn’t let I you be a martyr.

You’re not better people if you treat others like that. I didn’t kill your dog or steal your girlfriend. I raced in a race. Get off your high horse.

We don’t support those people, Kex. Please don’t group us with them.

I haven’t found a group to let me win yet so upsetting ;( I suck at tht race
Im not giving up yet ;D

Thalfon.1269:

For me, I did want to earn it myself. When someone stopped at the finish line and I got the title like that, I felt like I couldn’t warrant actually using the title since I hadn’t actually earned it.

I just went through this yesterday. Someone stopped at the finish line and let me take first. You know what I kinda feel cheated and because of that I’m not wearing the title.

You guys play how you want. I’m not racing anymore.

MasterfulGaze.4167:

Thalfon.1269:

For me, I did want to earn it myself. When someone stopped at the finish line and I got the title like that, I felt like I couldn’t warrant actually using the title since I hadn’t actually earned it.

I just went through this yesterday. Someone stopped at the finish line and let me take first. You know what I kinda feel cheated and because of that I’m not wearing the title.

You guys play how you want. I’m not racing anymore.

You could have chosen not to take the win. Or to keep racing until you do. If you don’t want the help, don’t take it. Win on your own power. But don’t blame those being helpful for being helpful, please.

i did this a few times already and why should i deny the title for someone else? one time me + 2 others were waiting for the 4th and he got the title.

Someone just called me a kitten and said I was being kittenty because he was saying everyone should stop at first place to let others win, and I disagreed. For the record, I came in 4th place. He also said stuff like talking about how great it must feel to beat people who are handicapped at the game, etc.

Because I said I enjoyed it as a mini-game, and enjoy the race. Seriously..what is with some people. I just want to have fun racing feeling like I’m in some gw2 version of mariokart. I don’t care about winning or losing or achievements, I just like the game. And THIS is how those of us just trying to enjoy the game get treated and what we have to deal with, because somehow having bad latency/jumping skills makes you special and above everyone else so you can skip the race, be given 1st place, and yell at anyone who wants to play it as it was intended.

Genavelle.9516:

Someone just called me a kitten and said I was being kittenty because he was saying everyone should stop at first place to let others win, and I disagreed. For the record, I came in 4th place. He also said stuff like talking about how great it must feel to beat people who are handicapped at the game, etc.

Because I said I enjoyed it as a mini-game, and enjoy the race. Seriously..what is with some people. I just want to have fun racing feeling like I’m in some gw2 version of mariokart. I don’t care about winning or losing or achievements, I just like the game. And THIS is how those of us just trying to enjoy the game get treated and what we have to deal with, because somehow having bad latency/jumping skills makes you special and above everyone else so you can skip the race, be given 1st place, and yell at anyone who wants to play it as it was intended.

Ignore the kittens getting mad at your for playing the game. As the one who gets there before them it is your choice. Not theirs. Only if they get there first is it their choice.

SynfulChaot.3169:

Genavelle.9516:

Someone just called me a kitten and said I was being kittenty because he was saying everyone should stop at first place to let others win, and I disagreed. For the record, I came in 4th place. He also said stuff like talking about how great it must feel to beat people who are handicapped at the game, etc.

Because I said I enjoyed it as a mini-game, and enjoy the race. Seriously..what is with some people. I just want to have fun racing feeling like I’m in some gw2 version of mariokart. I don’t care about winning or losing or achievements, I just like the game. And THIS is how those of us just trying to enjoy the game get treated and what we have to deal with, because somehow having bad latency/jumping skills makes you special and above everyone else so you can skip the race, be given 1st place, and yell at anyone who wants to play it as it was intended.

Ignore the kittens getting mad at your for playing the game. As the one who gets there before them it is your choice. Not theirs. Only if they get there first is it their choice.

I’m just saying I’m getting kind of tired of all the crying about this game. I just want to play it. And I wish I could find a room to play it in with other people who just wanted to play. And it’s one thing to nicely ask for someone to let you get the title, but this was someone who was getting 1st and stopping to other people, yelling at other people saying if they came in 1st, they should all do the same. And then cussing me out because I disagreed.

Genavelle.9516:

I’m just saying I’m getting kind of tired of all the crying about this game. I just want to play it. And I wish I could find a room to play it in with other people who just wanted to play. And it’s one thing to nicely ask for someone to let you get the title, but this was someone who was getting 1st and stopping to other people, yelling at other people saying if they came in 1st, they should all do the same. And then cussing me out because I disagreed.

Ignore and/or report these players. They are as hostile to the community as those that are actively trying to prevent others from getting the achievement.

SynfulChaot.3169:

Genavelle.9516:

I’m just saying I’m getting kind of tired of all the crying about this game. I just want to play it. And I wish I could find a room to play it in with other people who just wanted to play. And it’s one thing to nicely ask for someone to let you get the title, but this was someone who was getting 1st and stopping to other people, yelling at other people saying if they came in 1st, they should all do the same. And then cussing me out because I disagreed.

Ignore and/or report these players. They are as hostile to the community as those that are actively trying to prevent others from getting the achievement.

Nobody is “actively” trying to prevent others from the achievement. I’m pretty sure atleast most people who continue winning, are doing it because they enjoy the race, the competition, whatever, or think that everyone should earn it on their own. Not to mention there are plenty of people willing to give up first place so someone else can win, and for those of us who feel like that’s (while nice) kind of cheating and de-valuing the achievement and title, we don’t need to step aside and let someone else win. I don’t think anyone is sitting around going “I’m going to get first place so you never get the achievement!”

Genavelle.9516:

Nobody is “actively” trying to prevent others from the achievement. I’m pretty sure atleast most people who continue winning, are doing it because they enjoy the race, the competition, whatever, or think that everyone should earn it on their own. Not to mention there are plenty of people willing to give up first place so someone else can win, and for those of us who feel like that’s (while nice) kind of cheating and de-valuing the achievement and title, we don’t need to step aside and let someone else win. I don’t think anyone is sitting around going “I’m going to get first place so you never get the achievement!”

Umm … some do. Read some of the replies to some of these threads. There are some people that do. It’s sad, really.

And if people are helping others, then how does that devalue the achievement for you? You got it your way, right? Does it matter how others got it so long as they didn’t hack? As I see it, it only devalues it if you attach a ‘rarity’ to it. That false ‘rarity’ is not endemic to the achievement. It is just something that some players apply to achievements to make them feel better.

Genophix.3098:

I’ll second this, forgot the names of the kind players I met today but it was so good to see such a good attitude.

On a related note, how amazing it that race, so much better than Mario Kart.

Better than mario kart ?

Well, I did just forfeit a win to someone else, and they were extremely grateful. (Almost too grateful!). They had got every achievement so far but first, which says to me that they’ve put in a lot of time into the race. If someone is going to run 25 races, I figure they’ve more than earned the title. Especially in the case where if I hadn’t been there, they may have indeed won 1st without any help. (I suppose I do make things a little easier for them by not spamming bombs everywhere, like some people do.)

But it is nice that some people appreciate others giving them a turn.

I consider myself super casual. Some kind person gave me first place after he had his title and I returned the favor to other players. And I still played for the loot and eventually got first place on my own. Some people arent super competitive and some people dont want luck and twitch games. It’s all ok. For those who are super competitive this doesn’t take much away from you. I think the helpful community makes this a great game.

SynfulChaot.3169:

Umm … some do. Read some of the replies to some of these threads. There are some people that do. It’s sad, really.

And if people are helping others, then how does that devalue the achievement for you? You got it your way, right? Does it matter how others got it so long as they didn’t hack? As I see it, it only devalues it if you attach a ‘rarity’ to it. That false ‘rarity’ is not endemic to the achievement. It is just something that some players apply to achievements to make them feel better.

Rarity isn’t attached by the players it is a state of being. Whether or not you care about something or personally find it valuable, has no effect on how rare it is.

I can try to explain…

If Michael Phelps gave up his gold medal every time he was going to win a race after his first win with the attitude “Hey I got mine, now you can have yours.” He wouldn’t be the athletic icon he is or the most decorated Olympian of all time. To take it a step further, if every Olympian did this in every event it would become meaningless to be a gold medalist. Who cares Everyone has it because everyone lets everyone have it. It’s no longer a rare honor to have this title.

Same goes for the game on a much smaller scale but the same nonetheless. The more people have something the less value that object has. This goes more for non tangible items because they have no inherent value in the first place. In this case we are talking about a non tangible item in a game that is wholly non tangible. Being the only person in the game with a title can be very big to some people, sure some people may not care just like some people don’t care about who won gold in a particular event. But to that person it is important. However as more people get that title, it becomes worth less and less. If everyone who tries gets it, then it means nothing. It becomes the you showed up prize, like the idea of everyone gets a ribbon in kids sports. The ribbon becomes meaningless.

Many non tangible items are valuable because they are rare, even in real life titles can hold significance because of this as well. Winning a nobel prize, or being knighted is a great honor because not everyone gets to have that title.

So to those people you are basically saying “Everyone gets to be a knight now, just step right up I’ll knight you.” to quote one of my favorite lines from a great movie.

“When everyone’s super… no one will be.”

Well, where is this recorded? People leave the race so the list that pops up isn’t accurate. Is it listed somewhere so that you are all famous for wining bunches of races?

Lokki.1092:

— snip —

“When everyone’s super… no one will be.”

Some of us don’t care about that perceived value. I don’t need others looking at any of my achievements for them to be valuable to me. I understand that you do, and I can respect that. You know. So long as you’re not actively trying to prevent others from achieving themselves.

And no, I don’t mean by choosing to win. I mean by trying to get others to stop helping. Or by specifically trying to stop an individual from winning rather than trying to win yourself.

As for the “Winning a nobel prize, or being knighted is a great honor because not everyone gets to have that title.” argument? I wholeheartedly disagree. Those titles do not have value due to how few have them. They have value as they are granted for very, very real and important accomplishments.

I should have clarified. I’m a waiter. My wife has trouble with these things so I have an increased empathy for people who cant do it. I do not care about the perceived value I just completely get it.

You saying that the difference between being knighted and getting this achievement is that one is important and real while the other isn’t? I would argue both as as real as one another. besides that, what is important to people is relative You cannot give absolute value to these things because they are relative.

Heck these days most people are knighted because they are famous, nothing more. I would say that the rarity of the prize is a big part of what makes it special. This is why for example having a platinum album is not as big a deal anymore. So many artists have it we treat it like “Oh another.”

You dont care about it OK that’s fine neither do I. But you should understand that by giving everyone a trophy just because they want it, you are making the act of earning the trophy irrelevant. Whatever that trophy may be, that is what you, me, and anyone else who does it, is doing. Like I said before, I dont give one care about gold medals and gold medalists. but I bet if they started giving them out at the Olympics because people really wanted the achievement of being a gold medalist Michael Phelps wouldn’t appreciate it. So I get it.

If everyone has the title for showing up, the title becomes irrelevant.

Lokki.1092:

If everyone has the title for showing up, the title becomes irrelevant.

I’ve earned all titles I have on my own power and skill. I don’t find mine any more or less relevant regardless of how others have achieved theirs.

I figure ‘live and let live’. You get it your way. Let others get it their way. And be happy. Cuz this is a game and we’re supposed to be doing it for fun, right?

SynfulChaot.3169:

Lokki.1092:

If everyone has the title for showing up, the title becomes irrelevant.

I’ve earned all titles I have on my own power and skill. I don’t find mine any more or less relevant regardless of how others have achieved theirs.

I figure ‘live and let live’. You get it your way. Let others get it their way. And be happy. Cuz this is a game and we’re supposed to be doing it for fun, right?

Exactly … I had mine handed to me.

But then last night I got 1st again all by myself , literally LOL , I was the only player in the race.

So ….. getting that title means kitten when it comes to actual skill ( because I am kitten when it comes to things like that)

SynfulChaot.3169:

I’ve earned all titles I have on my own power and skill. I don’t find mine any more or less relevant regardless of how others have achieved theirs.

I figure ‘live and let live’. You get it your way. Let others get it their way. And be happy. Cuz this is a game and we’re supposed to be doing it for fun, right?

You may not feel it’s more or less relevant but it is. They could tomorrow give out all the achievements to everyone in the game or remove them completely. You can still feel that what you achieved has the same relevance and value to you. And no one can take that away from you. But it doesn’t change that they now have zero general value.

Also no. Just like some people dont play basketball to have fun while some do. Some people dont play games just to have “fun” and of course some people may have a different idea of fun than you do. Is it possible that their fun is achieving all the tough goals in the game? Or that they like to play competitively? Taking those 2 things away from those people is literally removing their sense of fun.

I guess its easy for me to see both sides because I am a bit on both sides, I am a competitive player at heart. But like I said I have some empathy for those who cannot do it on their own.