Guild Wars 2

Quarktastic.1027:

-I believe Grenth defeated Dhuum before the gods brought humans to tyria. Abaddon wasn’t defeated until after his decision to grant magic to the humans. Since we see statues of Grenth -not Dhuum- in Orr, leads one to believe that Grenth was among the gods who defeated Abaddon.

Almost certainly. The Gate of Madness contains the temple of the Six Gods, from before the Abaddon’s imprisonment – Grenth is included. Statues in Orr might have changed later on, but that temple has been inaccessible to followers of the five gods since Abaddon’s fall.

Quarktastic.1027:

-The battle was so intense, it transformed the entire Crystal Sea into desert. It’s likely the battle took place over the entirety of the sea, with gods fighting in the heavens, and margonites/human armies waging naval battles across its surface.

It’s possible. What we can guess is where it ended – in the city of Morah (as that is the place where the barrier between the mortal world and his prison was the weakest, suggesting it was also where he was sealed).
Edit: correct:

Morgahn: “The Mouth of Torment. Varesh’s mentor, Kahyet, spoke of it.”
Morgahn: “It was here that the Five Gods defeated Abaddon.”
Morgahn: “Here that the walls of his prison are the weakest.”

Quarktastic.1027:

-The gods didn’t want to take magic away from the humans, possibly because they couldn’t. But they did want to limit its use by sealing it away in the bloodstones, thus preventing any single human from possessing all schools of magic. Abaddon and his followers believed that magic should continue to flow freely. Perhaps Abaddon felt that the other gods were punishing him by limiting his gift to the humans.

Or he had other reasons for bestowing that gift – reasons that the other gods were either unaware of (he was big on secrets), or disagreed with. Some suggest, that those reasons might have been tied to the existence of the Elder Dragons

Gregorius.1024:

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Gmr Leon.1846:

Gregorius.1024:

The Guild Wars 1 wiki page for Abaddon does say he was incensed when the gods sealed magic into the bloodstones, so perhaps it was a combination of all of the above.

My reasoning for choosing the Abaddon fractal is this: the Dragons were interesting until we defeated Zhaitan. I’m sorry, there’s really nothing to it anymore. Zhaitan got screwed by a megalaser. The Gods, however, have remained interesting and mysterious since Prophecies came out. Yes we learned more about them, but the extra info never diminished them in the player’s eyes.

And to say that their influence no longer effects Tyria is dead wrong. Why? Lyssa’s muse said it perfectly prior to the final battle against Abaddon:

“The divinity is within you.”

It’s time this debate got a lot more philosophical.

You. A human. GW2 is about all the races now. As to them not being diminished in player’s eyes, that’s subjective. Personally, I think they’re old hat, lore luggage brought on from fantasy RPG traditions that would be better off gone, but that’s never going to happen.

We already know they didn’t create Tyria, we know they didn’t create Glint or even the Forgotten for that matter, and it’s very likely they didn’t create humanity. Without that creative capacity, they’re little more than powerful mages and warriors going about expecting worship, which is utter garbage. The reverence, devotion, and worship are all that really deify them, and only very little else, when considered from a broader racial perspective.

“The divinity is within you” may as well be them fessing up to, oh, hey, sorry, did we never mention you guys could pull this stuff off too if you tried hard enough? We didn’t? Really? Ah man, sorry guys. That explains why you’ve been so pitiful.

Exactly, the god’s divinity is within humanity. Humanity is still on Tyria, therefore the gods still have influence. And just because they left doesn’t mean they’ll stay gone. They could be just uber-powerful mages and such but relatively speaking, all gods are like that. The point is, while they did not create Tyria, they SHAPED Tyria. Dwayna brought humans to Tyria. Balthazaar led the humans to crush all other races. A half-human named Grenth is lord of the Underworld. Abaddon gave magic to the races. Melandru and Dwayna tried to establish peace between all the races. Kormir transcended humanity into divinity. Lyssa is the patron of chaos energy, which is directly tied to the complications of Thaumanova (perhaps she’ll show up). Grenth and Balthazar has wars with Dhuum and Menzies. Who’s to say one of their wars spills into Tyria? Who’s to say Dhuum or Menzies won’t attempt what Abaddon did and attack Tyria?

The Dragons are here, yes. We know how to fight them. We know how to beat them. Yeah, we beat Abaddon, but he was still tired and grouchy from his beatdown from 1100 years beforehand, and chained, no less. And still his god-like essence threatened to destroy Tyria. No, the gods are still very relevant to Tyria.

GW2 is about all the races now, so humanity can go and take a backseat. Also, no, relatively speaking gods are not all just “like that” in fantasy. There are just as many that can actually, you know, create stuff, not just reshape it which even the races of Tyria can do.

Besides, most of your info on the gods is hardly even accurate. I’m not really sure there’s anything that clarifies which of the gods brought humanity to Tyria, nor do I think there’s anything that suggests Dwayna and Melandru tried to sow peace with the other races, and also as far as I’m aware there’s only suggestions of Grenth being half-human, with no firm confirmation. Those parts aside, Balthazar didn’t lead humans to crush all the other races. Hello, dwarves, did humanity crush you? No? A civil war and a great destiny led to your decline? Thanks for the update. Hello, seers, did humanity crush you? No? The mursaat did? Well how about that, that’s a kitten shame. Hello, Forgotten, did humanity crush you? No? Oh, you’re also followers of the gods and you willfully withdrew to the Crystal Desert as far as anyone knows? Interesting!

The list can go on, but I think the picture is clear.

As to your last point, I can easily swap out the words:

The gods were here, yes. We know how to fight them. We know how to beat them. Yes, we beat Zhaitan, but it required all the races and their technology, and besides, he was still hungry from his last awakening who knows when. And we don’t yet know what his released energy may have done, not to mention there are still several other Elder Dragons actually on Tyria capable of destroying it. No, the Elder Dragons are still extremely relevant to Tyria, and there’s barely an argument to be had to say that they are more relevant since they’re there and affecting things.

Gandarel.5091:

This is theonly reason you can bring up against this fractal to support your awesome 87524th asura explosion fractal.

Then answer me some questions, because i do not know what happened:
-Where did the battle take place?
-Were all the gods fighting, even Dwayna? Then how did she contribute to the battle? Healing other gods or..?
-How was he defeated? A hammer blow, a godly spell or something else? Maybe Abaddon’s predecessor came back somehow for a final stand and sacrificed himself?
-Which army fought the margonites? Forgotten only, or Orrians too?
-Did all orrians opposed Abaddon?
These are just some questions.

We know where the reactor explosion happened, we’ve been there 99999 times, we know it was the inquest who caused the explosion.

I would also like to know more about the reactor, but not at this cost.

If the Fall of Abaddon will lose because of 7-8 spared silvers from wayponts then I will be mad.

Your subjective opinion is showing it’s emotional side. I’ll take bite, since I’m bored and sick of “My Fractal is awesome and yours is lame so shut up booger face” posts that constantly pop up.

1a- There’s a wiki, and both GW1 and GW2 has hidden knowledge of the events. Just because you don’t know, isn’t an excuse.

1b- Started in Orr, moved into his realm, where he was defeated.

2- Abaddon could easily handle two gods at once, but not all five. So yes, they were. Just because he’s the god of holy magic, doesn’t mean she doesn’t have any fight in her. She has powerful wind magic at her side for instance.

3- Abaddon was defeated by…one of the gods, a final blow. It’s vague but it could be a massive spell or a back hand slap for all we know. We know very little, if at all, that Abaddon had a real predecessor, even if he did, they didn’t use him/her. When you take a god’s position, or so we’ve seen, their power is passed on, and we didn’t see a new god till Kormir.

4- Those most loyal fought, most likely, against followers of the other gods, or their own creations. Balthazar has hounds for example.

5- His followers most likely, but there’s a bit of a problem. The whole reason was because magic was too powerful and was causing wars. Anyone who opposed the complete free use of magic would of sided with the gods that said it needed to be leashed, and on the other side with those who said it should remain uncontested.

You’re wrong about the reactor. the explosion was caused the destroyers, because you know where it was at doesn’t mean you have any clue as to specifics. For example, it’s blown up, and it was a much larger structure. The explosion ripped the fabric of time and space around itself, pulling things from different locations. It also has pulled through minions of the steam creature army, who were created by the alternate reality version of the asura savant gone mad with power and successfully took over the world (which includes killing the dragons).

We have very, very little details on how they’ll handle both. So, for everyone’s sanity, stop using this crappy argument for or against one another, you look silly.

Last bit of lore by the way, the fractals bring you into the area, might change your appearance but never makes you stronger…sometimes even making you weaker. Abaddon could take two gods by himself at his prime, 5 mortals can’t do squat. Also, you cannot look directly at the gods, else you’ll go blind. Only Malchor could, but in the end he was driven mad and committed suicide, driven mad because he couldn’t capture Dwayna’s beauty in stone. I’m not entirely sure, but fighting a god would prove rather difficult if we can’t look in his general direction, nor if we were as strong against him as are gnats to us.

I think, stressing personal opinion here, that we’ll either participate in the fight during the events, but not directly tied to Abaddon. It’s also called Fall of Abaddon, so it could mean either present timing of his fall, or shortly after with the creation of the crystal desert and the desolation. Or both, that would be fascinating.

Both fractals have the capacity to be interesting. Kicker though, is that they need to not last too long, which means a lot of detail could get lost. You might do it a couple of times and tire of it quickly, and then it’ll just be in the daily rotation.

@Gmr Leon
Each god’s individual wiki page lists what they did:
Dwayna came first and brought humanity with her.
Balthazar came second and proclaimed the world for humanity to take and swept Orr with a cleansing flame.
Melandru came after and terraformed Orr into a green, flowering expanse. She sought to maintain balance in the destruction of the world and urged peace among the races already living there.
An Orrian scroll says that Grenth’s mother is Dwayna, his father a sculptor. All pages on the GW and GW2 wikis say that Grenth was born on Tyria.

No, you can’t turn my words around. We DO know what Zhaitan’s energy could have done: it did NOTHING. He died and that was it, he was no threat to Tyria. Abaddon’s essence could not be destroyed and had to be absorbed by Kormir. Once a dragon dies it is no longer a threat, when a god dies, it’s essence must be absorbed or it will destroy Tyria. We don’t know how to fight the gods, unless they’re bound and weakened and half-mad. That’s how Destiny’s Edge fought Kralkattorik, but we did not fight a weakened Zhaitan. We weakened him throughout the course of the game. Zhaitan had 106 years of eating magical Orrian artifacts to sustain him. And to my knowledge, no Elder Dragon is capable of threatening the world on a global scale. All they can do is attack a small area at a time, and they’re pretty bad at that! Abaddon attacked 3 continents in the span of 5 years, with a long term plan lasting centuries. The Elder Dragons aren’t dumb but they’re also not really intelligent either. Sure they are a threat, but if Dhuum or Menzies or the pantheon of the Six attack Tyria, they will ipmact the world far more than the Dragons do.

Gregorius.1024:

@Gmr Leon
Each god’s individual wiki page lists what they did:
Dwayna came first and brought humanity with her.
Balthazar came second and proclaimed the world for humanity to take and swept Orr with a cleansing flame.
Melandru came after and terraformed Orr into a green, flowering expanse. She sought to maintain balance in the destruction of the world and urged peace among the races already living there.
An Orrian scroll says that Grenth’s mother is Dwayna, his father a sculptor. All pages on the GW and GW2 wikis say that Grenth was born on Tyria.

No, you can’t turn my words around. We DO know what Zhaitan’s energy could have done: it did NOTHING. He died and that was it, he was no threat to Tyria. Abaddon’s essence could not be destroyed and had to be absorbed by Kormir. Once a dragon dies it is no longer a threat, when a god dies, it’s essence must be absorbed or it will destroy Tyria. We don’t know how to fight the gods, unless they’re bound and weakened and half-mad. That’s how Destiny’s Edge fought Kralkattorik, but we did not fight a weakened Zhaitan. We weakened him throughout the course of the game. Zhaitan had 106 years of eating magical Orrian artifacts to sustain him. And to my knowledge, no Elder Dragon is capable of threatening the world on a global scale. All they can do is attack a small area at a time, and they’re pretty bad at that! Abaddon attacked 3 continents in the span of 5 years, with a long term plan lasting centuries. The Elder Dragons aren’t dumb but they’re also not really intelligent either. Sure they are a threat, but if Dhuum or Menzies or the pantheon of the Six attack Tyria, they will ipmact the world far more than the Dragons do.

So I haven’t looked up anything about the petty deities, okay. Regardless, the wiki is subject to inaccuracies, and unless those pieces are taken from findings in Orr, I see no reason to believe them just yet.

However, if they are accurate, then it only supports what I’ve been saying. They’re human-centric pieces of lore that are thoroughly irrelevant except to those that enjoy human lore despite there already being a vast amount of it. Expanding on them only further leaves the other races’ lore unexplored and relatively uninteresting as a result. Continuing the argument in favor of Abaddon on the basis of its being more interesting doesn’t help this matter at all. The other races’ lore will never develop so long as they focus on existing human elements.

Also, you seem to ignore that we fought Dhuum. We definitely know how to fight gods. Every fight with a god has been about the same as the fight with Zhaitan. We battle through their domain, weakening or affecting them in some way during the process, and then we defeat them. What happens afterward is the only difference, and again, we technically don’t know what happened to Zhaitan’s energy postmortem. You say it did nothing, probably because you didn’t see it, and that’s probably because they’re not good at conveying aftereffects very well.

We didn’t see much of anything happen after the Great Destroyer’s defeat in GW1, yet we had a Stone Summit member attempting to capture its energies. It’s very likely this is similar in GW2, and from what I’ve read, it sounds like the explorable version of the final dungeon relates in some way to researching it.

confession: i didn’t read the hole thread, so if this has been said…

well firstly i don’t mind which fractal comes ‘cause in my opinion they could both have something to do with the dragons
now unlike with the reactor we know why abaddon fell, and that i wager is more important than where or who, so that’s why i think the story of the reactor might be more interessting
but concerning dragons i think it’s more likely abaddons story will tell as news, since he’s the god of water and well perhaps the deep sea dragon will be next because abaddon wants revenge…
while with the reactor i imagine something like inquest stealing snaff’s predecessor’s work, and fusing the reactor’s energy with dragon energy, about the same kudu does

I will still vote for kiel ‘cause of wp costs and ’cause giving an almost monopolist even more power, doesn’t seem like a good idea, and i don’t care that anet says he could buy him self in but he doesn’t, he DOES do we get bag with tickets and money from kiel, does she keep the aetherblades treasure, does she get any money from lowering wp costs, evon probably gains when he gives discount on keys, ‘cause he sells more??? so apart from him bribing and lobbying, i don’t wont anymore political power in his hands

Gmr Leon.1846:

We didn’t see much of anything happen after the Great Destroyer’s defeat in GW1, yet we had a Stone Summit member attempting to capture its energies. It’s very likely this is similar in GW2

Those aren’t on the same scale.
A god’s essence left uncheck will destroy the world, by just existing (maybe overdramatizing, but it’s the gist of Nightfall’s ending scene).
The essence of the great destroyer (so maybe Zhaitan’s essence too) can be put to use, otherwise… nothing.
A subtle but very important difference, if you ask me.

Hopefully whichever fractal wins, the other will get some expanded lore in the World we can go out and read or maybe some artwork telling the story. Would be a shame if neither got representation at least in some form (altho I’d agree both can’t be a fractal)

@Gmr Leon

Still, we couldn’t kill Dhuum, no more than Grenth could. And we still needed the magic of the Seven Reapers which we don’t know ourselves. And as Elidath said, the Great Destroyer’s energy could be harnessed as what Duncan the Black was trying to do. However, it didn’t spiral out of control and threaten anything. It pretty much became a glorified communing point. Abaddon’s power was threatening to wreck the world. You could say Kormir did the same as Duncan, except the gods specifically gave her a gift to do so. And unlike Zhaitan, we did not fight the gods at full power or even weaken them. We got to them just before they were ready to bust free and defeated them in an already weakened state. Zhaitan, we attacked his food source and his scouts and depleted his reinforcements before taking the fight to him. Never once had the Pact experienced a crushing defeat. The Ascalonian refugees were constantly on the run in Prophecies. Togo’s students were racing against a plague. The Sunspears were utterly crushed by demons at Gandara and were in hiding throughout most of Nightfall. The Pact gets a setback here and there but proceeds to utterly steamroll through to Orr and Zhaitan.

I understand that the game is about all 5 races. But the humans took a major step back. All the other racial storylines are far more interesting, the most interesting stuff that happens to the humans is when we uncover Orrian stuff… All the way in Orr….

I do think its time the humans got something to do. They’ve affected the world the most for the past couple thousand years and are now backed into a corner. The other races are really unique and interesting in and of themselves, but what primarily makes humans so awesome is their gods, their history, and their adaptability. I’m not saying to put them on top but give them some limelight in this game.

I think something as super important to lore deserves more than just a fractal. I kinda hope they save the Abaddon story for when the Crystal Desert opens up and ties it into the quests there. I kind of think the Reactor would fit better with the amount of story you can place within a fractal. Just my two copper.

Zietlogik.6208:

Abaddon was the one who gave the power behind the great cataclysm that sunk orr, to the Vizier Khilbron in order to defeat the Charr who were invading the human kingdoms….although the Vizier may not have know the power was from abaddon when he acquired it, turning himself into the Lich in the process.

Pretty sure that Khilbron did know he was getting his power from Abaddon as there’s a tapestry depicting the god in the Vizier’s Tower (8mins 7 seconds into this video) which really must have been put there prior to the sinking.

Elidath.5679:

Gmr Leon.1846:

We didn’t see much of anything happen after the Great Destroyer’s defeat in GW1, yet we had a Stone Summit member attempting to capture its energies. It’s very likely this is similar in GW2

Those aren’t on the same scale.
A god’s essence left uncheck will destroy the world, by just existing (maybe overdramatizing, but it’s the gist of Nightfall’s ending scene).
The essence of the great destroyer (so maybe Zhaitan’s essence too) can be put to use, otherwise… nothing.
A subtle but very important difference, if you ask me.

The end point is that we hardly know what either energy left unchecked would do. It appears Zhaitan’s defeat and released energy did nothing, but we don’t know the full repercussions yet. It appeared that Abaddon’s energy left unchecked would do some harm, but we never found out because it was contained.

If you ask me, the biggest fault here lies with ArenaNet claiming the Elder Dragons rival the gods’ power and then making the death of one hardly comparable to the end scene of Abaddon’s defeat. No unrestrained energy released that needs quick containment or something, no dramatic retreat from Orr as it releases and causes a second Cataclysm sinking Orr yet again; arguably all because they seeded it with valuable resources and it was one of few higher level areas for players that reached the end.

In this scenario, game mechanics may have completely ruined a good lore point, or dull writing that favors the human lore didn’t want another group to seem on par to the gods. Or they completely forgot the point that the Elder Dragons are supposed to rival the power of the gods, which given their habit of retconning stuff from the early Movement, wouldn’t surprise me at all.

Gregorius.1024:

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@Gmr Leon
…

I understand that the game is about all 5 races. But the humans took a major step back. All the other racial storylines are far more interesting, the most interesting stuff that happens to the humans is when we uncover Orrian stuff… All the way in Orr….

I do think its time the humans got something to do. They’ve affected the world the most for the past couple thousand years and are now backed into a corner. The other races are really unique and interesting in and of themselves, but what primarily makes humans so awesome is their gods, their history, and their adaptability. I’m not saying to put them on top but give them some limelight in this game.

See, I’d almost be willing to agree with you, except to me the other races’ lore and stories are terribly underwhelming and shallow. The norn are big boastful humans (or half-giants, it hardly matters since they mostly just appear to be big low-tech humans) that are supposed to have great tales and adventures but mostly don’t, the charr are the closest to having some decent background only because they’ve been around since GW1, the asura came from the Depths but have next to nothing to say about their time spent there or anything missed from then, and the sylvari are newly emerged seemingly without much curiosity as to why they behave as they do or whether there may be other Pale Trees out there.

Human lore has to take a backseat or else the other races will forever seem last-minute shove-ins with minimal cohesion with the rest of Tyria, if you ask me. GW1 guys got their human foundations in GW1, and it’s been strung out to GW2, as humans founded two of the three multiracial orders, they founded Orr, and everything found in Orr only serves to flesh out their history, as well as appeal to the GW1 vets with some info on races that are mostly never seen in GW2 besides the jotun.

The solely GW2 guys deserve to have their world elaborated upon, rather than yet another nod to the GW1 guys.

@Gmr Leon

I do agree that they messed up when they claimed the Elder Dragons rivalled the gods in power. However, you forget that ED’s only consume magic (except possibly Primordus, he seems to operate on a different level than the others). Therefore it would stand to reason that Zhaitan simply has no residual energy when he dies since he ate it all.

As for the other race’s lore I think the charr and sylvari have the best in terms of balancing current events and backstory. The sylvari are a mystery and the inner workings of the Dream and their origin add to their intrigue, toss in the fact that other Pale Trees exist and you have much and more options to explore. The charr are dealing with an eternal war with Adelbern and while they continue to beat the ghosts back, they unfortunately don’t have unlimited numbers. Ash and Blood legion homelands are still unexplored.
The asura are strange: Primordus kicked them out, but they don’t seem to care. Also, I think the Inquest are too influence and powerful to shut down which can only mean reconciliation or civil war. And the war will be fought because the Inquest are xenophobic, which is against the asuran race’s best interests. I would support Thaumanova if I knew Anet was heading in that direction, but I don’t.
I think the norn’s storyline is the weakest, but I’m hoping that when the Pact goes after Jormag, the norn get their due. There’s alot of cool things going on with them (for one, their Spirits actually show up from time to time, Aesgir’s scroll, the legendary warhorn storyline).
I agree human lore does need to take a backseat, but I think it deserves equal treatment, even though there’s already more of it. The reasons being:
1. Humanity has impacted the world far more than the other 4 races so far. Understanding human lore has been conducive to the Priory’s goals.
2. There are 2 other human kingdoms that need to be brought back into the fold with Tyria. Cantha and Elona can be major players in the war versus the dragons.
3. It’s not unreasonable to think that the Dragon’s awakening could be part of the machinations of an evil god. 2 gods have attempted long-term plans to breakout of their prisons, and one was waging eternal war with his half-brother. The Dragons could be circumstantial or part of a god’s plot to weaken Tyria (this theory is really out there).

Maybe I’m wanting to much of the best things right now. Afterall, Cantha has pushed out all non-humans so that campaign will be dripping with human lore and history, same with Elona.

Iarkrad.8415:

Ancient history. Compared to Thaumanova, a largely unexplained event that rivals the rise of Kralkattorik for significance in recent history. What? Why? How?

We all know the story of Abbadon, and most importantly, we all know the full extent of it’s results and significance. Also, chaos magic could potentially be used to create temporal magitech for use in living story.

We already know what happened with Thaumanova. The Inquest were experimenting using the reactor to harness dragon energy, it overloaded and exploded. We already know the consequences of it, enemies from all around the world get teleported into it and a Golem tries to clean it up and brings in a huge fire elemental instead. The end.

The Inquest are doing the exact same thing at Crucible of Eternity. It is LITERALLY Thaumanova 2.0 but specifically designed to handle their experiments rather than just hijacking an existing reactor for it. It too is failing however and players and Destiny’s Edge/Pact have to shut it down.

Abaddon’s fall has sent ripples through history that have shaped the entire world of Tyria as we know it and we don’t know when those ripples will stop. Because Abaddon was cast down, the Gods left Tyria, leaving Orr to its own devices. Abaddon in the Realm of Torment created the Titans, the Titans gave the Charr the ability to perform the Searing, which allowed them to retake their ancient homeland of Ascalon, which set in motion an invasion that empowered the cult of the White Mantle and the Mursaat, and caused the cataclysm that sank Orr to the bottom of the sea and killed all its people. The Vizier of Orr was a servant of Abaddon, and it was he who cast the spell that caused the cataclysm. A servant of Abaddon also tricked Shiro Tagachi into murdering the Canthan Emperor years ago, creating the Jade Sea and Echovald (petrified) Forest. Shiro then became a servant of Abaddon after he was defeated as an envoy of the Mists by players. Abaddon attempted to break out from his prison and take over Tyria, he was killed, and a new Goddess rose up in his place. The Gods “went silent” when the Dragons awoke, conveniently, shortly after Abaddon’s final death (trust me, this is not a coincidence). The Dragons searched for artifacts related to Abaddon, so obviously there is some connection, but we don’t know what.

Vote Evon for something epic that has shaped Tyria’s history for thousands of years and continues to do so.

Vote Kiel if you want to just see the predecessor to CoE with consequences we already know about and repeat every day or in fact every half an hour if you want.

Devildoc.6721:

Iarkrad.8415:

Ancient history. Compared to Thaumanova, a largely unexplained event that rivals the rise of Kralkattorik for significance in recent history. What? Why? How?

We all know the story of Abbadon, and most importantly, we all know the full extent of it’s results and significance. Also, chaos magic could potentially be used to create temporal magitech for use in living story.

We already know what happened with Thaumanova. The Inquest were experimenting using the reactor to harness dragon energy, it overloaded and exploded. We already know the consequences of it, enemies from all around the world get teleported into it and a Golem tries to clean it up and brings in a huge fire elemental instead. The end.

The Inquest are doing the exact same thing at Crucible of Eternity. It is LITERALLY Thaumanova 2.0 but specifically designed to handle their experiments rather than just hijacking an existing reactor for it. It too is failing however and players and Destiny’s Edge/Pact have to shut it down.

Abaddon’s fall has sent ripples through history that have shaped the entire world of Tyria as we know it and we don’t know when those ripples will stop. Because Abaddon was cast down, the Gods left Tyria, leaving Orr to its own devices. Abaddon in the Realm of Torment created the Titans, the Titans gave the Charr the ability to perform the Searing, which allowed them to retake their ancient homeland of Ascalon, which set in motion an invasion that empowered the cult of the White Mantle and the Mursaat, and caused the cataclysm that sank Orr to the bottom of the sea and killed all its people. The Vizier of Orr was a servant of Abaddon, and it was he who cast the spell that caused the cataclysm. A servant of Abaddon also tricked Shiro Tagachi into murdering the Canthan Emperor years ago, creating the Jade Sea and Echovald (petrified) Forest. Shiro then became a servant of Abaddon after he was defeated as an envoy of the Mists by players. Abaddon attempted to break out from his prison and take over Tyria, he was killed, and a new Goddess rose up in his place. The Gods “went silent” when the Dragons awoke, conveniently, shortly after Abaddon’s final death (trust me, this is not a coincidence). The Dragons searched for artifacts related to Abaddon, so obviously there is some connection, but we don’t know what.

Vote Evon for something epic that has shaped Tyria’s history for thousands of years and continues to do so.

Vote Kiel if you want to just see the predecessor to CoE with consequences we already know about and repeat every day or in fact every half an hour if you want.

You don’t know the consequences of the reactors chaos energy in the Mists is.

Gmr Leon.1846:

You. A human. GW2 is about all the races now.

Supposedly. Most of what we’ve seen has been charr, asura, sylvari. Humans have been taking the backseat – I know you haven’t got there yet, but even in their ancient holy land of Arah, where you’d think humanity would have a chance to step up and make a mark through using their knowledge of the city, the gods, and the old rituals, they’re overshadowed by charr, asura and sylvari at every turn. Off the top of my head, I can only think of one instance in a personal story after level 40 or in an explorable area higher level than the Harathi Hinterlands where it’s actually important that a particular named NPC is human, rather than being able to have a character of another race being dropped in with minimal alteration. And even that character gets overshadowed by an asura in her own area of expertise.

Yes, the story should be about all the races. All of them. Not “the four races we’d like to focus on now and the one holdover from the last game we’d rather forget”. From what we saw on release, ArenaNet has already overcompensated – like I said, if there’s any time for humans and their connection with history and their gods to make a difference, it’s in Orr, and ArenaNet completely dropped the ball there. Fortunately, it looks like the living story is showing signs that it may be a little more balanced in the future.

When it comes to the gods: First, I can corroborate what’s been said before about the gods – there are some scrolls in Orr that talk about that.

Second, I think there’s reasonable evidence that there is in fact something more significant to the gods than simply being powerful warriors and wizards. We’ve been told by the devs that the asura and norn do recognise that the gods do in fact embody the principles they stand for more than a simple mage or soldier can – the norn regard them as ‘spirits of action’ in analogy to the animal spirits. However, the norn prefer their more intimate relationship with the animal spirits, while the asura prefer to look at the machinery of the Eternal Alchemy as a whole rather than focusing on just six cogs, however important.

Furthermore, the new material from GW2 indicates that spirituality and divine beings aren’t just a human holdover. A couple of the minor races have deities that are, to greater or lesser extents, recognisably similar to one or another of the Six. EOTN brought us the norn animal spirits, which while not the same as the gods, appear to be at least somewhat similar in nature. Perhaps not uncoincidentally, norn are the race that most people agree have been most neglected. Some deeper investigation into what divinity means in the world could well involve fleshing out the norn as well as humanity, and maybe even the sylvari as well.

Like most fantasy settings with steampunk elements, GW2 seems to have made a divide between the more technologically oriented races (asura, charr) and the more mystically oriented races (norn, sylvari, and, uncharacteristically, humans). What we’ve seen in the living story so far, however, has mostly been a parade of technomagical gadgetry-oriented content, with only Mad King Thorn and the Zephyr Sanctum sitting on the other side. I know you’re a technophile, and I’m no Luddite myself, but I think some balancing would be appreciated by most people.

Now, I’m not saying that the Abaddon fractal is the way to do it, but I would say that the idea that humans had all of Guild Wars 1 and thus should take a backseat forever is balderdash. Should humans and human lore be neglected until two years after GW2’s release, to make up for the time human lore was in the spotlight for Prophecies, Factions and Nightfall? Should we include EOTN as well, even though that was primarily focused on the norn, charr and asura? Is the debt to last for the full seven years between GW1 and GW2 release, including the year and a half between the Bonus Mission Pack and the War in Kryta where basically no new content was introduced?

They deserve a bit of the spotlight, just like everyone else.

Devildoc.6721:

We already know what happened with Thaumanova. The Inquest were experimenting using the reactor to harness dragon energy, it overloaded and exploded. We already know the consequences of it, enemies from all around the world get teleported into it and a Golem tries to clean it up and brings in a huge fire elemental instead. The end.

The Inquest are doing the exact same thing at Crucible of Eternity. It is LITERALLY Thaumanova 2.0 but specifically designed to handle their experiments rather than just hijacking an existing reactor for it. It too is failing however and players and Destiny’s Edge/Pact have to shut it down.

I think you are mistaken, the thaumic reactors (yes, there’s more than one … only Thaumanova blew up) don’t draw on draconic energy, if they did the result would be a lot more corrupted creatures than we see; instead what comes out of the tears in reality are regular (if confused) creatures. There is no evidence that I know of to tie Kudu (“isn’t that a girl’s name?”) to the thaumic reactors beyond being in the Inquest, and I don’t think that’s enough. As far as I’m aware, only Kudu got heavily involved in researching dragons, the Inquest has other (equally unsavoury) branches.

I consider it rather more likely that the thaumic reactors are experimenting with primordial (pre-bloodstone) magic somehow … and the possible repercussions of that are fascinating.

I do not post often but I do read the forums alot, but this was one thread that I could not help but have the sudden urge to post into. I am no lore aficionado, but I most certainly did fall in love with the lore of this game and have played GW1 since the first 3 months of release and have spent countless hours researching lore for this game, purely for fun. This is my own humble and personal opinion, and I am not looking to change any minds, but just to share my opinions with hopefully other like-minded individuals.

“I am a huge Ellen Supporter because I want to see her fractal.”

Why?

There are a variety of reasons, let me start with the more practical ones, and then I will move into other explanations which are more of my own opinions and are more speculation and ‘what-ifs’ that could progress the entire game plot forward referencing other sources, both in and out of game.

Reason #1: Potential To Uncover Omitted Content

The third book of the planned Guild Wars novels was originally intended to be about the Reactor Incident, to have been titled “Crucible of Eternity” which means there could have potentially been alot of unexplored lore out there about both the Thaumanova Reactor and the Infinity Coil Reactor.

Reason #2: Guild Wars 1 Content about Abaddon

No offense to anyone, but there was an entire campaign in the original game devoted to exploring the origins of abaddon as a god and his downfall, rehashing ground that has already been traveled would be a shame when there are so many potential other story paths that could be tread, not to mention a wealth of information in the gw1 wiki which pertains to that subject.

Reason #3: Inquest Plotlines are some of the strongest content in the game [subjective]

For a fantasy MMO, the inquest have some of the most engrossing and dynamic lore for any faction in almost any game. They are highly technologically advanced, have the resources and fiscal backing to establish research stations all over the known world and probably more beyond, and have the ability to coordinate their efforts to create truly awe-inspiring complexes. (Could one imagine the infinity coil reactor in real life minus the fantasy elements? Do you know how much money would need to be invested into that? Years of labor? Manpower? Electric Bill?).

What makes all of this particularly interesting?

If one were to meditate on the implications of the Inquest and their machinations, they have the potential to have one of the most complex storylines in the game, and fleshing out their backstory could have serious lore benefits for players, and that is why having Ellen for a representative could be advantageous, not just because of the one incident of the Reactor Explosion, but because of the potential for elaboration of various other subplots within the game, all tied to one of the most far-reaching organizations in any game world. The possibilities for exploration are nearly limitless and are a much stronger platform then to revisit a segment of game history that has been done before in a full previous expansion. I am not saying there are not merits in getting some hazy details clarified, but to me it doesn’t truly have the potential move the plot of the Living World forward in a way that is meaningful.

After watching this lore video, (it’s a very entertaining watch for anyone interested in Asuran Lore) the implications of having more revealing asuran content is very appealing. (Bear with me now) If the Asurans and Mursaat are related, the events of the Reactor could allude to a revival of the Mursaat/Unseen ones who already do have Janthir Isles and Janthir Bay on the map, which could actually set up for more content in expansions; not to mention the Nightmare Court/Bandit/Inquest alliance in Brisban Wildlands with the Level 80 Fort of Vandel’s Claim which could lead to both the realm of Mordremoth (the 6th dragon per Subject Alpha’s attack naming in Crucible of Eternity)….

Tangents aside, in my opinion Inquest Subplots specifically deserve additional attention because they seem to be the most entrenched faction in the game world, with far reaching influence to almost every corner of the map, with vast resources and lots of hints towards classified information such as the underwater/deep sea dragon for instance: Thaumanova Reactor (aquatic areas), Infinity Coil (Zone Blue: Under Construction) Crucible of Eternity (underwater aquarium which is suspiciously empty), Jinx Isle Base in Malchor’s Leap, all have these locations accommodations for underwater or nautical research into the Deep Sea Dragon. Another purely speculative point is the Aetherblades, we know they have teamed up with the Inquest who have some serious financial backing (personal speculation: Almuten Mansion Residents?) and how is it a multiracial faction can steal, hide, and maintain airship outposts? Not to mention they have a steam theme, which coincides with the steam creature enemies who come from an alternate reality of a mad asuran inventor..

I wrote that all just to provide examples of where the plot could go very easily and be completely appropriate for the game world, and the creation of a Fractal for the Reactor could be the first step in a long line of highly rewarding player experiences if executed correctly.

Sure, you can say that it’s “just another lab explosion” but the complexities that could be interwoven into that event are incredibly curious. Sure, one could “Fight A God!” but there is an achievement that sums up my opinions on that

“Been There, Done That.”

Onshidesigns.1069:

Devildoc.6721:

Iarkrad.8415:

Ancient history. Compared to Thaumanova, a largely unexplained event that rivals the rise of Kralkattorik for significance in recent history. What? Why? How?

We all know the story of Abbadon, and most importantly, we all know the full extent of it’s results and significance. Also, chaos magic could potentially be used to create temporal magitech for use in living story.

We already know what happened with Thaumanova. The Inquest were experimenting using the reactor to harness dragon energy, it overloaded and exploded. We already know the consequences of it, enemies from all around the world get teleported into it and a Golem tries to clean it up and brings in a huge fire elemental instead. The end.

The Inquest are doing the exact same thing at Crucible of Eternity. It is LITERALLY Thaumanova 2.0 but specifically designed to handle their experiments rather than just hijacking an existing reactor for it. It too is failing however and players and Destiny’s Edge/Pact have to shut it down.

Abaddon’s fall has sent ripples through history that have shaped the entire world of Tyria as we know it and we don’t know when those ripples will stop. Because Abaddon was cast down, the Gods left Tyria, leaving Orr to its own devices. Abaddon in the Realm of Torment created the Titans, the Titans gave the Charr the ability to perform the Searing, which allowed them to retake their ancient homeland of Ascalon, which set in motion an invasion that empowered the cult of the White Mantle and the Mursaat, and caused the cataclysm that sank Orr to the bottom of the sea and killed all its people. The Vizier of Orr was a servant of Abaddon, and it was he who cast the spell that caused the cataclysm. A servant of Abaddon also tricked Shiro Tagachi into murdering the Canthan Emperor years ago, creating the Jade Sea and Echovald (petrified) Forest. Shiro then became a servant of Abaddon after he was defeated as an envoy of the Mists by players. Abaddon attempted to break out from his prison and take over Tyria, he was killed, and a new Goddess rose up in his place. The Gods “went silent” when the Dragons awoke, conveniently, shortly after Abaddon’s final death (trust me, this is not a coincidence). The Dragons searched for artifacts related to Abaddon, so obviously there is some connection, but we don’t know what.

Vote Evon for something epic that has shaped Tyria’s history for thousands of years and continues to do so.

Vote Kiel if you want to just see the predecessor to CoE with consequences we already know about and repeat every day or in fact every half an hour if you want.

You don’t know the consequences of the reactors chaos energy in the Mists is.

WvW and sPVP take place in the mists, so at most, the fact that we can access the mists to fight in is tied to the reactor, otherwise nothing.

Gandarel.5091:

This is theonly reason you can bring up against this fractal to support your awesome 87524th asura explosion fractal.

You are getting very angry about this Gandarel. I think you should let it go.