Guild Wars 2

While it’s only been about 12 hours since the reset, I can’t help but notice some rather disturbingly lopsided scores in the current NA matchups. In particular, the BG/JQ/SoR fight and the Mag/SBI/BP matchup. I’ve never seen such imbalances before in my few months of playing, and I don’t think it’s a coincidence that it’s happening the first new cycle since EotM.

I think a lot of people on servers that have basically no chance of winning are choosing to get their “WvW fix” on EotM instead. It makes perfect sense from an individual standpoint, and I might well do it myself in that situation. But the long-term impact on WvW would be very negative.

Getting destroyed in actual matchups will cause more serious WvW players/guilds to leave the weaker servers, creating further imbalances. And especially in tier 1 there’s a big issue with having only 2 extremely strong servers and no third to match against them.

I see some very severe unintended consequences here that may need to be addressed.

It’s always said that this update is for t1 servers and man how it shows this to be true.

Been there done that. The only other game that was similar to GW2 was daoc…in terms of 3 way WvW. They also made the mistake of spreading out their WvW action with additional zones.

Eotm will also prove to be a mistake. You fix something by making it better, not adding another zone to water down the WvW population.

aspirine.6852:

It’s always said that this update is for t1 servers and man how it shows this to be true.

Which is one of the reasons why it was a mistake. This is the death knell for the lower population servers. The only chance they had to survive was the appeal of people transferring there because they grew tired of queues in tier 1.

aspirine.6852:

It’s always said that this update is for t1 servers and man how it shows this to be true.

Not sure how you define “t1” but I view that as the top 3 matchup which is now a top 2 matchup. I’m on TC and the way it looks now we will basically end up swapping places with SoR every other week getting stomped by BG/JQ, ad infinitum.

I hope we’ll put up a good fight as we always try to do. But how can I tell people on my server to fight a lost cause if they find EotM sparring more fun?

Nobody cares if you win a eotm-match, matches don’t remain stale for a week, towers are able to stand on their own for a while when they have supply, defensiv siege is being built by npcs, many places where you can easily reduce the numbers of enemy zergs.

All this seems to be superior to the old wvw.
What’s missing is the community but that’s also happening by transfering and what’s to say against a gamewide community?

It goes against human nature. We are social animals and we care more about those close to us than those far away.

Will EOTM supplant WvW?? I most certainly hope so, but it won’t be EOTM that damages WvW … it will have been ANet’s total refusal to address the population imbalance and coverage problems in WvW over the past 18 months. WvW is still my favorite PvP format overall because I much prefer a more strategic playstyle, but ANet screwed it over so badly that I’ll be playing EOTM pretty much exclusively until I jump ship entirely.

LunarNacht.8913:

Nobody cares if you win a eotm-match, matches don’t remain stale for a week, towers are able to stand on their own for a while when they have supply, defensiv siege is being built by npcs, many places where you can easily reduce the numbers of enemy zergs.

All this seems to be superior to the old wvw.
What’s missing is the community but that’s also happening by transfering and what’s to say against a gamewide community?

Those fixes you mentioned are not bad at all. But the population spreading is kinda bad for some servers. Right now most of our players seem to be on eotm, we do not stand a chance against high tier servers because they will blob and siege everything.

aspirine.6852:

Those fixes you mentioned are not bad at all. But the population spreading is kinda bad for some servers. Right now most of our players seem to be on eotm, we do not stand a chance against high tier servers because they will blob and siege everything.

The previous problems of servers being stacked and snowballing arent being fixed. Instead however, people who were/are getting hammered now have an alterative to play.
One that is certainly a lot more balanced.

How would you propose we solve this without just stomping over peoples fun?

The eotm style colour match ups will either end up fixing ‘coverage wars’ by being implemented across the board, or wvw will be destroyed by ANet neglecting it again from here on out.

They’ve taken a good step to show how the game can be made competitive again, whether they act on it only time will tell.

Oh believe me, I’m all for server pride, SOS is the greatest server in GW2, but I have no issues merging with other servers like in these colour match ups. If there is one thing I want from competitive game modes in any game, it is for an even playing field with skill being the deciding factor, 80 vs 20 is not fair.

I had already voiced my concerns before the map was released regarding this. I don’t see there being enough incentive for under populated servers to go into WvW.

On one side you have the main WvW map where you can be zerged to death because you do not have enough people to compete. Or you can go into a map that numbers wise is alot more balanced and if its not then just exit and try and get into a different instance.

I have also noticed that you get alot more badges running within EOTM than you do running around normal WvW. Add onto that because WvW has no incentive and people are doing it for the fun factor and its alot more fun having even fights than lop sided fights, so there is no reason for lower pop servers to dive into the main WvW.

I went into the main WvW section today for my server and it was practically empty compared to what it used to be like. Towers and keeps were now easy because there was literally about a handful guarding them and it seems that everyone is getting their WvW fix from EOTM. Wither this balances out or not we will soon see but I imagine its only going to get worse in WvW before something is done to improve the situation.

i think its too early to tell, however eotm may be a cog in a bigger plan.
Now they can promote/make big changes to WvW that may attract a lot more people, without worrying too much about queues.

However that said, aside from lowering the map cap, im not sure what they can do to make WvW more balanced population wise. and that would bring its own problems.

its simple, you get better rewards zerging in EoTM then regular WvW, therefor that’s where the zergs have moved.

EoTM still rewards the mindless zerg fest that is GW2.

Its like most of the GW2 developers who played DAOC, played only Albion and sat at the milegate the whole time.

Terravos.4059:

its simple, you get better rewards zerging in EoTM then regular WvW, therefor that’s where the zergs have moved.

EoTM still rewards the mindless zerg fest that is GW2.

Its like most of the GW2 developers who played DAOC, played only Albion and sat at the milegate the whole time.

not really bout the rewards far as i can tell, more about new area and fairly even match ups

Hopefully EotM maps spells the end of the borderlands. Borderlands is basically PvE anyways. You only fight the other zerg once per hour in the borderlands. I get that some people want to feel like there making a difference in WvW, but I can’t see how anybody is having any fun there.

It won’t kill it.

Cause when you are on the losing end. Edge of the Mists isn’t even fun to play.

Clearly Red side wants to get that point across.

Crunk n monkey.3749:

It won’t kill it.

Cause when you are on the losing end. Edge of the Mists isn’t even fun to play.

Yeah but, you could simply exit, then re-enter to get into a different EOTM instance, one that may be more balanced or even with your side dominating. Where as in WvW, if you are being outzerged and outplayed, there’s absolutely nothing you can do about it other than to logout or hide in PvE. Well that’s until EOTM got launched, now people have a choice and places to go PvP and have fun.

There’s a reason cross-server instancing was added in other MMO’s. This is because ultimately, you can’t count on gamers to always tough it out. When going gets tough, gamers will either 1) transfer to another server, as we’ve seen happen, or 2) simply not play the game as much, as we’ve always seen it happen before EOTM was launched. Sure there are always a small % of players that will stick with a server no matter what, but they simply don’t make enough difference to match the zergs.

People need to realize for many servers, WvW was already damaged long before EOTM was released. Many servers have not been able to compete well in WvW for quite some time now. Some servers only do well when matched up against other lesser servers or servers with less organized WvW guilds.

So could EOTM damage WvW? If Anet plays it right, EOTM should compliment WvW gameplay. Winning EOTM should add to your realm’s score. Anet also needs to make the queues so you can choose which instance to enter, this way it will allow people from the same guild/servers to go into a specific queue when they want to. Better queue matching will help as well, they need to dump large guilds queuing together into the same instance so there are some large guild vs guild vs guild from various servers going on.

EOTM has been a success, they really need to just build on top of it and enhance it even further.

Qaelyn.7612:

Getting destroyed in actual matchups will cause more serious WvW players/guilds to leave the weaker servers, creating further imbalances. And especially in tier 1 there’s a big issue with having only 2 extremely strong servers and no third to match against them.

The absolute death of lower tier servers might help WvW. It’s better to consolidate the WvW community into fewer servers than continue to pretend we can have 17 balanced quality matchups across 51 servers. It certainly hasn’t worked out since the game has launched. Unfortunately Anet will not merge servers unless it absolutely has to because that’s like admitting defeat in the MMO industry.

EotM is certainly a gamechanger, haha. Very fun, sincere craziness everywhere. Will be interesting to see how it plays out and how ANet uses this new mode in WvW proper

NornBearPig.9814:

Qaelyn.7612:

Getting destroyed in actual matchups will cause more serious WvW players/guilds to leave the weaker servers, creating further imbalances. And especially in tier 1 there’s a big issue with having only 2 extremely strong servers and no third to match against them.

The absolute death of lower tier servers might help WvW. It’s better to consolidate the WvW community into fewer servers than continue to pretend we can have 17 balanced quality matchups across 51 servers. It certainly hasn’t worked out since the game has launched. Unfortunately Anet will not merge servers unless it absolutely has to because that’s like admitting defeat in the MMO industry.

they cant merge servers because while WvW maybe underpopulated, many of the servers have decent size PVE. they could force a lot more people into one server, but then when you are in overflow all the time, people will complain.

also for many servers the problem isnt peak hours, its offpeak and semi offpeak hours, merging servers would just make these periods have less people able to play, because they all generally play at the same time. 6 people at 6 am, and 3 people at 6 am probably wont make much of a difference.

The truth is, the WvW situation doesnt have any easy answers. I its going to be a few different things that make WvW work.

Qaelyn.7612:

While it’s only been about 12 hours since the reset, I can’t help but notice some rather disturbingly lopsided scores in the current NA matchups. In particular, the BG/JQ/SoR fight and the Mag/SBI/BP matchup. I’ve never seen such imbalances before in my few months of playing, and I don’t think it’s a coincidence that it’s happening the first new cycle since EotM.

There’s no imbalance. Maguuma’s skill level has always been off the charts.

Smooth Penguin.5294:

Qaelyn.7612:

While it’s only been about 12 hours since the reset, I can’t help but notice some rather disturbingly lopsided scores in the current NA matchups. In particular, the BG/JQ/SoR fight and the Mag/SBI/BP matchup. I’ve never seen such imbalances before in my few months of playing, and I don’t think it’s a coincidence that it’s happening the first new cycle since EotM.

There’s no imbalance. Maguuma’s skill level has always been off the charts.

Maguuma can summon some very large blobs, and not just during the day or night, but all hours of day and night. Last week DB was matched up against them, DB got beat down so badly that people got demoralized and stopped participating in WvW. Some commanders that used to run WvW raids every day stopped tagging up. It was pretty sad. The whole week it was about how to avoid the zerg, which usually meant going off to cap empty keeps (borrring).

Thank Anet for EOTM, I wasn’t going to play the game much during the last match up but EOTM allowed me to still enjoy PvP. This is precisely why EOTM is a good thing.

cortin.9174:

Maguuma can summon some very large blobs, and not just during the day or night, but all hours of day and night. Last week DB was matched up against them, DB got beat down so badly that people got demoralized and stopped participating in WvW. Some commanders that used to run WvW raids every day stopped tagging up. It was pretty sad. The whole week it was about how to avoid the zerg, which usually meant going off to cap empty keeps (borrring).

Thank Anet for EOTM, I wasn’t going to play the game much during the last match up but EOTM allowed me to still enjoy PvP. This is precisely why EOTM is a good thing.

Maguuma equips Stronk builds for our quest to move into Tier 1:

Superior Rune of Maguuma

(1): +25 Sweg
(2): +10% Forum Infractions
(3): +50 Sweg
(4): When you post on the official forum, gain a random boon.
(5): +90 Sweg
(6): Invite nearby foes to your party on kill.

And for the OP, there’s more than enough people to do both WvW and EotM. A lot of servers play for pride, so allowing others to run over them will keep some core guilds around to cap BLs.

Smooth Penguin.5294:

Superior Rune of Maguuma

(1): +25 Sweg
(2): +10% Forum Infractions
(3): +50 Sweg
(4): When you post on the official forum, gain a random boon.
(5): +90 Sweg
(6): Invite nearby foes to your party on kill.

Had a good chuckle at that. IMPLEMENT.

Forzani.2584:

Been there done that. The only other game that was similar to GW2 was daoc…in terms of 3 way WvW. They also made the mistake of spreading out their WvW action with additional zones.

Eotm will also prove to be a mistake. You fix something by making it better, not adding another zone to water down the WvW population.

(I say this as someone looking at it from a business standpoint so don’t take it wrong.)

Thing is you have to remember they didn’t add it for any of us and they said that straight up more or less. They added it for China because lets be honest here. When it comes to money and online gaming China is so easy to milk for cash you’d be dumb not to tap it. There is a huge swath of suckers over there waiting to be parted from their cash that dwarfs anything we have the west on the sucker market. If a bad nasty online grind till your fingers turned to dust game can make it over there. Then a fun polished game like GW2 is going to take all their cash so fast they will homeless the day it releases from throwing money at it.

We have to face the facts peeps. Now that there is a greater market of suckers to be parted from their cash in another market and it is much easier to do so then in any western market. There is going to be more content made to deal with things like the MASSIVE overflows China will have of players who queue for WvW. It may impact things like WvW in many games maybe not in the greatest way but it is what it is.

I do love EotM though and not just because it is new but because I actually have fun. Even though it really is the same size as other WvW maps? This one actually has places for me to ditch players, funner items to use, a center spot for living story content, is more then a flat open field with random giant holes with supply depots in them, it is just better. The normal borderlands just don’t give me that. I do hate to say it but the other borderlands are kinda bland and just do not have staying power in my eyes.

I think I may have to revise the title from “damaging” to “destroying”. At least in NA, I can’t recall ever seeing such dysfunctional matchups as we have this week.

Current snapshot of tier 1:

Jade Quarry +595
Blackgate +50
Sanctum of Rall +50

This is horrible regardless of what server or area you play on. Pretty soon there will BE no WvW except for people trolling each other on this new map.

This is extremely disappointing. Makes me want to go check out other games, to be honest.

Arenanet, please speak up on this issue. And sooner rather than later. Thank you.

It has damaged it for my server, FC isn’t a T1 server, it is far from it. All of our people are flocking to EotM and completely forsaking all of our WvW areas. WE DON’T EVEN HAVE OUR KEEP IN OUR BORDERLANDS OR EB…. it’s a pain, especially when you do so much to cap all the areas you can with a zerg and getting off only to get back on and see that everything is gone.

Smooth Penguin.5294:

cortin.9174:

Maguuma can summon some very large blobs, and not just during the day or night, but all hours of day and night. Last week DB was matched up against them, DB got beat down so badly that people got demoralized and stopped participating in WvW. Some commanders that used to run WvW raids every day stopped tagging up. It was pretty sad. The whole week it was about how to avoid the zerg, which usually meant going off to cap empty keeps (borrring).

Thank Anet for EOTM, I wasn’t going to play the game much during the last match up but EOTM allowed me to still enjoy PvP. This is precisely why EOTM is a good thing.

Maguuma equips Stronk builds for our quest to move into Tier 1:

Superior Rune of Maguuma

(1): +25 Sweg
(2): +10% Forum Infractions
(3): +50 Sweg
(4): When you post on the official forum, gain a random boon.
(5): +90 Sweg
(6): Invite nearby foes to your party on kill.

And for the OP, there’s more than enough people to do both WvW and EotM. A lot of servers play for pride, so allowing others to run over them will keep some core guilds around to cap BLs.

This post was already made in a thread around the time of season 1. Not original sorry bro….

Fighting vs BG and JQ turteling in towers

yup, choice made

I’m all for color vs color rather than world vs world, but if this trend continues they need to make maps that are little less funhouse and tone down the NPCs a bit. Playing in the EotM makes me severely miss basic keep sieges and open fields.

Maybe its a test and since its such a success then they will update the borderlands. I would love for green borderlands to be wintery, red to be greenery, and blue to be dessert, and EB maybe replaced with EotM or make it so that each corner represents their borderlands style like EotM does.

Fluffball.8307:

I’m all for color vs color rather than world vs world, but if this trend continues they need to make maps that are little less funhouse and tone down the NPCs a bit. Playing in the EotM makes me severely miss basic keep sieges and open fields.

EotM is actually made for clever play and not zerging and unlimited supply spam for siege. NPCs scale based on number of players nearby. They actually die way faster if you have a small group. So what Anet probably expected that EotM won’t be that popular in the future (when season 2 and achievs come) but it will still be fun for any smaller groups (as well as zergs if they choose to be there).
So yeah.. right now it’s a mess maybe, depending on your preferred play style. But in the future it will get better. I personally like the map anyway, whether it’s “zerg wars” or small group captures.

Qaelyn.7612:

I can’t help but notice some rather disturbingly lopsided scores…Mag/SBI/BP matchup….

BP has no business being in the same match-up as Mag due to coverage differences, and SBI just had a max exodus of guilds off their (once again) bandwagoned server and are in ranking freefall.

So no, that match-up has nothing to do with EotM.

Also, have you ever thought that maybe EotM is how WvW should function and is in general more fun than normal WvW?

1) No WPs to insta-defend a keep/castle;

2) Spaced out objectives and scaled NPCs giving small teams a purpose;

3) Interesting objectives that offer fun and unique incentives for capturing them;

4) Pooling of servers that helps diminish the amount of time any particular side is outnumbered, making battle and match outcomes less dependent on pure coverage

I don’t know about you, but I log in to play this game to have fun, not to hardcore PPT for some perceived sense of accomplishment when in reality the outcome of the match was determined regardless of whether I actually logged in at all.

I hope that this imbalance forces Anet to put implement a few changes into normal WvW, sooner rather than later.

Aurust.8961:

This post was already made in a thread around the time of season 1. Not original sorry bro….

As you can see, that was a copy pasta bro. Mag is so stronk with pulling 500+ PPT, it must be the runes. We got coverage for both WvW and EotM right now. How’s SoR doing?

ScaryHydra.3165:

It has damaged it for my server, FC isn’t a T1 server, it is far from it. All of our people are flocking to EotM and completely forsaking all of our WvW areas. WE DON’T EVEN HAVE OUR KEEP IN OUR BORDERLANDS OR EB…. it’s a pain, especially when you do so much to cap all the areas you can with a zerg and getting off only to get back on and see that everything is gone.

yet, FC/DH/NSP has the best looking matchup this week.

Thinking about it over the past couple of days, I think you are gonna see a huge shift in the rankings and tiers.

Your gonna see server transfers and servers that are still competing in the regular matchups will move up into the higher tiers while servers that stuff themselves into EotM will be in the bottom tiers.

For example, if SoR doesn’t care much for their matchup in tier 1, they will fall to tier 4 or whatever to reflect where they are suppose to be. Same goes for other servers that are on the bottom such kitten.

It’s going to take a month or two for the rankings to balance to themselves out.