Guild Wars 2

I can only pray that I am wrong about this, but I fear that we are on the cusp of seeing the worst griefing that this game has seen since launch. The recipe for this is simple: limited-time objective + ability to kill other players who have no interest in fighting and just want to complete that objective = griefing on an unprecedented scale.

We’ve already seen this sort of thing happen with WvW jumping puzzles. The reason griefing-style play is not a more serious issue there is because there is no inherent time limit to completing that content – if griefers are camping the puzzle, simply come back later after they get bored and leave because there is nobody for them to kill. But what if the content/achievements are only available for a short time, as is the case with the living story? This funnels a constant stream of victims to the griefers, and removes the option to wait for them to go away.

Again, I really hope that some thought has gone into anti-griefing mechanisms for this release, but from what information is available so far I am very, very concerned.

Doubt they’d do something like that. It’ll probably be like the last update where you just have to participate in wvw to unlock next part of story. (cap X locations, kil x players, …). Or maybe even story explaining new map with a story instance in EOTM at spawn location. Judging by the last update I think Anet has given up on forcing people to do stuff they don’t want.

You say griefing, we say war.

WvW players get poor loot and are forced into content they often don’t like just to get the very weapons they fight with. Long have we been the second class citizens of guildwars 2 and when content is added for us, its usually when something (orbs, quaggans) is taken away.

WvW keeps this game alive. The transfer fees paid by wvw guild migration are considerable and as structured-pvp is rapidly dieing out, wvw is where the pvp side of this game is headed. When Wildstar comes out, WvW will be what holds this game together, or what sinks it if a better home for us is offered. Its about time we got some kudos for the things we do to keep the pve side of the game alive.

So I say unto those venturing into the edge of the mists – come armed and come determined enough that when you fall, you get back up and you hunt out the one who felled you so that you can drive him or her from the mists and into the hands of Grenth himself.

The time to ignore us is over – you`re in our world now.

VincentDW.9376:

I can only pray that I am wrong about this, but I fear that we are on the cusp of seeing the worst griefing that this game has seen since launch. The recipe for this is simple: limited-time objective + ability to kill other players who have no interest in fighting and just want to complete that objective = griefing on an unprecedented scale.

We’ve already seen this sort of thing happen with WvW jumping puzzles. The reason griefing-style play is not a more serious issue there is because there is no inherent time limit to completing that content – if griefers are camping the puzzle, simply come back later after they get bored and leave because there is nobody for them to kill. But what if the content/achievements are only available for a short time, as is the case with the living story? This funnels a constant stream of victims to the griefers, and removes the option to wait for them to go away.

Again, I really hope that some thought has gone into anti-griefing mechanisms for this release, but from what information is available so far I am very, very concerned.

going to have to agree… that’s quite literally a recipe for rage-quit disaster.

if the LS is in the WvW zones it just might not get done, heck I never got much of anything done on Teq so it’s not like there isn’t precedent.

chronometria.3708:

So I say unto those venturing into the edge of the mists – come armed and come determined enough that when you fall, you get back up and you hunt out the one who felled you so that you can drive him or her from the mists and into the hands of Grenth himself.

The time to ignore us is over – you`re in our world now.

Except for the part where you can’t see anybody’s name, so hunting them out is pretty hard. Oh, and the zergs can make hunting pretty hard. Or other roamers.

I play WvW rarely. It’s not really my thing. I don’t have as much of a hang-up as others, but I’ll say this:

Taking a PvE player who does not enjoy PvP experiences and putting them into a PvP situation where the PvP players want to grief the PvE player as much as possible is a terrible idea.

I will simply ignore that type of content the same like i will never have 100% map because i dislike all type of PvP and never will play in any PvP are again after i ragequittet AION at some point because of constantly beeing ganked.

chronometria.3708:

The time to ignore us is over

Why not direct this to the people who make the game instead?

There’s no such thing as griefing when it comes to entering PvP zones. Just like when PvE players entered Obsidian Sanctum. Don’t expect me to just let you walk by, simply because you want an achievement. It’s a part of WvW, and you’re free to attack me, just as I’m free to attack you.

Maybe the logic is don’t put pve content in pvp area.

Why do you want to wvw with people that don’t even want to be there?

laokoko.7403:

Maybe the logic is don’t put pve content in pvp area.

Why do you want to wvw with people that don’t even want to be there?

Logic says that content added to WvW is NOT PvE. That means that this Living Story Update is not PvE.

Good news for you! You can simply ignore the achieves and go about doing PvE. If you start feeling bad, just remind yourself that 23 of the last 24 Living Story achievement categories required no WvW interaction at all on your part.

Good news for WvW players! They get some achieves for once.

mtpelion.4562:

They get some achieves for once.

Twice, because there was WvW Season 1

Though yes this is the first Living Story release that focuses on WvW.

mtpelion.4562:

Logic says that content added to WvW is NOT PvE. That means that this Living Story Update is not PvE.

I can’t tell you how many times in WvW I heard people say, “get this PvE kitten out of my WvW” in regards to the toxic spore events. Just because something exists in a location where PvP COULD take place does not mean that it itself is PvP content. There is plenty of content in WvW that is primarily (and often completely) PvE content, because the only opponent you face is the computer-generated environment. Capturing a mercenary camp, in my experience, virtually never involves fighting an actual player. Likewise, upwards of 90% of the time the only enemy I see in a jumping puzzle is the jumps themselves. True PvP content means fighting other PLAYERS.

Could just use the bridges to your advantage savatage a bridge and drop the zerg down and endless fall to there death. I imagine necro mines on bridges are going to be ridiculous there. New map is full of narrow passage ways.

VincentDW.9376:

I can’t tell you how many times in WvW I heard people say, “get this PvE kitten out of my WvW” in regards to the toxic spore events. Just because something exists in a location where PvP COULD take place does not mean that it itself is PvP content. There is plenty of content in WvW that is primarily (and often completely) PvE content, because the only opponent you face is the computer-generated environment. Capturing a mercenary camp, in my experience, virtually never involves fighting an actual player. Likewise, upwards of 90% of the time the only enemy I see in a jumping puzzle is the jumps themselves. True PvP content means fighting other PLAYERS.

WvW is not PvP. WvW is a merger of PvP with PvE.
Sounds like those complainers in WvW need to be informed that they are playing the wrong game mode.

VincentDW.9376:

I can only pray that I am wrong about this, but I fear that we are on the cusp of seeing the worst griefing that this game has seen since launch. The recipe for this is simple: limited-time objective + ability to kill other players who have no interest in fighting and just want to complete that objective = griefing on an unprecedented scale.

We’ve already seen this sort of thing happen with WvW jumping puzzles. The reason griefing-style play is not a more serious issue there is because there is no inherent time limit to completing that content – if griefers are camping the puzzle, simply come back later after they get bored and leave because there is nobody for them to kill. But what if the content/achievements are only available for a short time, as is the case with the living story? This funnels a constant stream of victims to the griefers, and removes the option to wait for them to go away.

Again, I really hope that some thought has gone into anti-griefing mechanisms for this release, but from what information is available so far I am very, very concerned.

I am soooooooo looking forward to this. I will be camping roads, trails, anywhere I can pick off stragglers on my mes and my thief to provide you with the extra fun and entertainment.

You don’t have to do every single LS, I skip SAB every time. Like above mentioned WvW has not seen much overall in comparison to PvE.

Been hinted
With all the complaints on the speed of Living story releases this may be Anet way of sticking to a schedule, but instead of only PvE content maybe now LS will jump from Spvp, WvW, PvE tying the three game modes together.

Some of my favorite content in games has been a mix pvp/pve, vanilla days of AV summoning Ice lord & Frost lord. Give it a chance, don’t like it just wait for a few weeks.

Opposition isn’t the same thing as griefing.

GrandmaFunk.3052:

Opposition isn’t the same thing as griefing.

Then we need a new term for people who enjoy killing players who have no interest in player-to-player combat.

chronometria.3708:

You say griefing, we say war.

WvW players get poor loot and are forced into content they often don’t like just to get the very weapons they fight with. Long have we been the second class citizens of guildwars 2 and when content is added for us, its usually when something (orbs, quaggans) is taken away.

WvW keeps this game alive. The transfer fees paid by wvw guild migration are considerable and as structured-pvp is rapidly dieing out, wvw is where the pvp side of this game is headed. When Wildstar comes out, WvW will be what holds this game together, or what sinks it if a better home for us is offered. Its about time we got some kudos for the things we do to keep the pve side of the game alive.

So I say unto those venturing into the edge of the mists – come armed and come determined enough that when you fall, you get back up and you hunt out the one who felled you so that you can drive him or her from the mists and into the hands of Grenth himself.

The time to ignore us is over – you`re in our world now.

So much truth in this. After all the PvE players are gone, the WvW players will remain until a better option is available to us. These kills are only a fraction of the repayment for us having to deal with half baked LS updates for a year and a half while our entire community was ignored.

The time of culling the herd has come. Bring me your loot bags children, and be enraged.

timmyf.1490:

GrandmaFunk.3052:

Opposition isn’t the same thing as griefing.

Then we need a new term for people who enjoy killing players who have no interest in player-to-player combat.

Queuing up for WvW is proof that you have interest in player to player combat. If you truly have no interest, you wouldn’t have clicked on the button that takes you there.

chronometria.3708:

structured-pvp is rapidly dieing out, wvw is where the pvp side of this game is headed.

That’s because sPvP has been stuck at point-capture games for 18 months and has stagnated into a bigoted, rude, unfriendly community untouched and largely unconsidered by the dev team. WvW is a much better choice for PvP simply because they work on PvE.

mtpelion.4562:

timmyf.1490:

GrandmaFunk.3052:

Opposition isn’t the same thing as griefing.

Then we need a new term for people who enjoy killing players who have no interest in player-to-player combat.

Queuing up for WvW is proof that you have interest in player to player combat. If you truly have no interest, you wouldn’t have clicked on the button that takes you there.

…except for if I have interest in what Scarlet is doing, of course.

(Previous example: I have interest in jumping puzzles.)

mtpelion.4562:

timmyf.1490:

GrandmaFunk.3052:

Opposition isn’t the same thing as griefing.

Then we need a new term for people who enjoy killing players who have no interest in player-to-player combat.

Queuing up for WvW is proof that you have interest in player to player combat. If you truly have no interest, you wouldn’t have clicked on the button that takes you there.

It’s griefing if you specifically seek people doing the achievements with the goal of preventing them from succeeding and without regard to pursuit of real objectives in the map (perhaps even camping them so every time they get back to the achieve point you can jump them). It’s regular combat if you just happen on them and fighting occurs.

mtpelion.4562:

Queuing up for WvW is proof that you have interest in player to player combat. If you truly have no interest, you wouldn’t have clicked on the button that takes you there.

The only reason anyone not interested in WvW or PvP would que up is because of the rewards and achievements. If they didn’t care to try it before, why would they now otherwise?

This was only proven true by WvW S1. And we all know how much of a ‘success’ that was.

The mentality of a Guild Wars 2 player….

“If someone affects me in any way I don’t like, it’s griefing and they should be banned for it. Unless I do the same thing… then it’s okay and they are whiners.”

Camping an area in a PvP environment (WvW IS a pvp environment as Players fight against Players) for the purpose of killing people (you know… the whole point of the zone) is not griefing. It’s not my style, but some people enjoy that. The Devs know this. If they didn’t want this to happen, they wouldn’t implement it in this way.

Now I don’t play much WvW… zerging bores me. It’s like human champ farming. The mists are just a larger Queensdale. BUT, I’m really happy to see some content given to the WvW community. Living Story is great and all… err… in theory (in practice it’s been pretty bad), but they are putting all their resources into it and ignoring full groups of players and neglecting things that should have been done ages ago. WvW needed some love. You don’t have to go if you have no interest.

That being said, I’ll double up on my lunch money as I expect that I’ll be handing over a few loot bags.

Phyxius Animus.7356:

The mentality of a Guild Wars 2 player….

“If someone affects me in any way I don’t like, it’s griefing and they should be banned for it. Unless I do the same thing… then it’s okay and they are whiners.”

Camping an area in a PvP environment (WvW IS a pvp environment as Players fight against Players) for the purpose of killing people (you know… the whole point of the zone) is not griefing. It’s not my style, but some people enjoy that. The Devs know this. If they didn’t want this to happen, they wouldn’t implement it in this way.

I don’t think the point that we’re trying to make is that WvW players are bad evil awful people for camping PvE players.

The point is that ArenaNet keeps trying to push PvE players into WvW in the hopes that it’ll increase the WvW population. Many PvE players avoid WvW because they don’t like it.

It creates a tension. “I want to see what’s up with Scarlet, but I don’t want to PvP. Why do I have to go into WvW and deal with this nonsense just to get the story that I’m interested in?”

The attitude of WvWers (“BAGS BAGS BAGS!!!!”) certainly doesn’t help with this.

@Timmyf

Fair enough.
I think I’m just tired of the overuse of “griefing” and the “report” button.

Kicking players from groups in pve is griefing.
KIlling players in WvW that are looking for achievements is griefing.

Personally, I think the devs should be banned for writing Scarlet into the game. That’s the most hard-core player griefing ever. They’ve personally attacked every player that purchased their game.

;-)

mtpelion.4562:

Queuing up for WvW is proof that you have interest in player to player combat. If you truly have no interest, you wouldn’t have clicked on the button that takes you there.

If there is story content available only in the WvW environment, you will see plenty of people who are there not because they have any interest in player vs player combat, but because they want to see how the story continues. I must say, it’s a bit absurd to spend a year delivering story in a PvE environment, and then say “if you want to see how it ends, get ready to be preyed upon by people who are literally salivating at the thought of inflicting suffering on others who just want to be left alone.” Don’t get me wrong, I enjoy WvW as a game mode, but this seems like an extremely ill-advised crossover. I’m excited to fight other players on the new map, but dreading the kittenstorm of ill-will and acrimony that happens when PvE players are bribed with rewards/achievements to enter a PvP environment without any real desire to be there.

timmyf.1490:

GrandmaFunk.3052:

Opposition isn’t the same thing as griefing.

Then we need a new term for people who enjoy killing players who have no interest in player-to-player combat.

When I see red, I don’t stop and ponder their intentions or what they are interested in doing.. if you don’t react first, you’re the one putting yourself at a disadvantage.

timmyf.1490:

The point is that ArenaNet keeps trying to push PvE players into WvW in the hopes that it’ll increase the WvW population. Many PvE players avoid WvW because they don’t like it.

It creates a tension. “I want to see what’s up with Scarlet, but I don’t want to PvP. Why do I have to go into WvW and deal with this nonsense just to get the story that I’m interested in?”

The attitude of WvWers (“BAGS BAGS BAGS!!!!”) certainly doesn’t help with this.

If you just want story, this update is light on the overall story-arc, so don’t worry about it. It’s sort of like when a Buffy character shows up in an Angel episode. If you just watch Buffy, you won’t miss anything too important if you didn’t watch Angel.

If you just want achievements …. well, WvW players are allowed to have achievements too. That’s just something you’ll have to live with.

Killing these “griefers” is one of the most satisfying things imaginable. It’s great kicking out the shins of people who think they’re in for free kills and putting them back in their place. Seriously, give it a try. Most of the “griefers” in the JPs or wherever are not very good and are relying on you being worse.

From the perspective of someone who WvW’s a couple hours a week but does zero PvP, I don’t think things will be as kittenome dedicated PvE’ers think. Here’s why.

First, WvW fights aren’t as structured as PvP. Instead of having two groups of people packed into a relatively small area, WvW “match-ups” tend to sprawl all over the place. As a result, there’s never enough population on both sides to contest the entire map. So while one objective may be locked down by the enemy, others will be in your teams control or contestable.

Second, griefing in WvW isn’t very satisfying. Why? Because you can’t see your victim’s name. Psychologically, that detracts from the joy griefers feel in the same way that de-humanizing enemy combatants makes it easier for soldiers to pull the trigger.

Third, there’s the numbers game. Griefers are a minority outside of prison showers. When the LS hits the Edge of the Mists, there’ll be one zerg for every griefer. Want to complete the LS and move on? So does everyone else. Pop in, find a blue dorito or a ball of green dots, and fall in. You might come into conflict with other people pulling the same routine, but that’s just the WvW analogue to champ fights.

So, again, from someone who avoids true PvP like the plague, WvW will be more familiar than strange. The red names across the valley are just mobs to be killed by you and your green-dot buddies. It’s nothing personal—you’re just a server and title to them, too!

The funny thing is WvW players don’t want Living Story garbage in WvW either.

In the long term, probably the best thing for both sides is for WvW players to kill as many PvE players as possible as often as possible (what the OP calls “griefing”) and prevent them from getting their achievements — the hope being that the ensuing PvE player outrage will cause Anet to act.

Simple. If I am forced to WvWvW for this update, I am boycotting it. I recommend all others who want to play their way, as the game read-up says you can, to do the same.

VincentDW.9376:

mtpelion.4562:

Queuing up for WvW is proof that you have interest in player to player combat. If you truly have no interest, you wouldn’t have clicked on the button that takes you there.

If there is story content available only in the WvW environment, you will see plenty of people who are there not because they have any interest in player vs player combat, but because they want to see how the story continues. I must say, it’s a bit absurd to spend a year delivering story in a PvE environment, and then say “if you want to see how it ends, get ready to be preyed upon by people who are literally salivating at the thought of inflicting suffering on others who just want to be left alone.” Don’t get me wrong, I enjoy WvW as a game mode, but this seems like an extremely ill-advised crossover. I’m excited to fight other players on the new map, but dreading the kittenstorm of ill-will and acrimony that happens when PvE players are bribed with rewards/achievements to enter a PvP environment without any real desire to be there.

Year of story in PvE
-BUT-
Conclusion is only available in WvW where you are likely to be killed many, many times by other people and you may never get to even see the end of the story or get the reward tied to completing the achievement.

Sounds like:

Entire “personal” story is solo and for you alone and never has you enter a single dungeon
-BUT-
Can only conclude your personal story by doing a dungeon with 4 other players.

“Absurd” fits them both.

Aeonblade.8709:

chronometria.3708:

The time to ignore us is over – you`re in our world now.

So much truth in this. After all the PvE players are gone, the WvW players will remain until a better option is available to us. These kills are only a fraction of the repayment for us having to deal with half baked LS updates for a year and a half while our entire community was ignored.

The time of culling the herd has come. Bring me your loot bags children, and be enraged.

Ah, so much beating on their e-chests and pretending to be pwnzor.

I kinda like the WvW event idea, I’ll just take a break from gw since i have 0 interest in playing pvp in any mmorpg. If however some ‘too good to be true’ reward forces me to go there, i’ll be the one who just sits down when you lot arive. Kill me, I don’t care. But I’m not even gonna defend myself. I’m not going to give you fun by doing something i absolutely hate. Just enjoy feeling pwnzor about killing someone who doesn’t bother fighting back. A real pvp’er would be miffed if someone didn’t fight back. You, from your tone of words would probably simply go: “woo another kill, i iz so awesome”.

And Aeonblade, from what you write, you don’t care about culling the herd. Which already is a nonsensical statement, since pure pve players aren’t part of the wvw herd. There is no reason why you should look down on ppl simply because they don’t like the parts of the game that you like, or why you would even want to cull a group of ppl who don’t even want to come and play in your part of the game. Also, from your ‘…be enraged’ comment, it’s also pretty clear that you have no noble intentions of improving the wvw flock (since culling the herd is what you do to improve the quality of the remainder), all you want to do is troll and grief.

And you are welcome to it.

As I’m perfectly welcome to completely ignore your existance and that of WvW.

VincentDW.9376:

mtpelion.4562:

Queuing up for WvW is proof that you have interest in player to player combat. If you truly have no interest, you wouldn’t have clicked on the button that takes you there.

If there is story content available only in the WvW environment, you will see plenty of people who are there not because they have any interest in player vs player combat, but because they want to see how the story continues. I must say, it’s a bit absurd to spend a year delivering story in a PvE environment, and then say “if you want to see how it ends, get ready to be preyed upon by people who are literally salivating at the thought of inflicting suffering on others who just want to be left alone.” Don’t get me wrong, I enjoy WvW as a game mode, but this seems like an extremely ill-advised crossover. I’m excited to fight other players on the new map, but dreading the kittenstorm of ill-will and acrimony that happens when PvE players are bribed with rewards/achievements to enter a PvP environment without any real desire to be there.

Well I am sure there will be plenty of regular wvw people who would be ready and willing to help those PvE players. I myself as a WvW commander will be working to help introduce new players to wvw. I helped out new players getting into wvw when the WvW season 1 came out and will be doing it again.

Is there going to be PvE players who are going to refuse to join the WvW comunitee and learn stuff? Sure, there always is. But I have made a lot of new gw2 friends and got a lot of new players into WvW. Several have admitted to me that they were rather shy about getting into WvW at first until I and others helped show them the ropes.

Three separate sides all on an over flow and most likely all sides at full capacity and all fighting for the same LS objective. I don’t define that as greifing.

If you can’t beat them, join them, quite simple really! Maybe it’s time you pve’ers actually did something for the server you’re playing on.

The ‘Ready Up’ session on Twitch has confirmed that the majority of the LS elements will not be present in EotM.

Oh whoops, I was distracted and forgot to watch the live stream. Is there a summary of it yet?

Donari.5237:

Oh whoops, I was distracted and forgot to watch the live stream. Is there a summary of it yet?

Increased ascended drop rates in WvW and more dragonite from Lords.
A humiliating Quaggan finisher. (might even top Cow as being the most hated lol)
Specific achievements to EotM (not related to LS).

Besides the actual features of the map.

MarzAttakz.9608:

If you can’t beat them, join them, quite simple really! Maybe it’s time you pve’ers actually did something for the server you’re playing on.

Yes, because I’m so thankfull of bonusses that I don’t care about.

Thx thx thx for providing me with something that i neither need or want.
Also, don’t pretend you play WvW to give your server bonusses. You do it because you derive fun from it. So the bonusses are more like an ‘accident de parcours’ then something you strive to achieve.

And when you accidentaly activate a bonus, you deserve no thx for that. If you were to WvW strictly to give bonusses then you would get my thx. But let’s face it, that’s not why you WvW, now is it?

chronometria.3708:

You say griefing, we say war.

WvW players get poor loot and are forced into content they often don’t like just to get the very weapons they fight with. Long have we been the second class citizens of guildwars 2 and when content is added for us, its usually when something (orbs, quaggans) is taken away.

WvW keeps this game alive. The transfer fees paid by wvw guild migration are considerable and as structured-pvp is rapidly dieing out, wvw is where the pvp side of this game is headed. When Wildstar comes out, WvW will be what holds this game together, or what sinks it if a better home for us is offered. Its about time we got some kudos for the things we do to keep the pve side of the game alive.

So I say unto those venturing into the edge of the mists – come armed and come determined enough that when you fall, you get back up and you hunt out the one who felled you so that you can drive him or her from the mists and into the hands of Grenth himself.

The time to ignore us is over – you`re in our world now.

As someone that playes 99% PvE and almost never PvP or WvsW… seriously, this post is brilliant. It encourage players to join a war, die, being kitten d by the WvsW veterans and the best thing about it? The players themselves did choose to accept that challenge.

Personally i’m gonna go to the edge of the mists because of this post xD I hope i can hunt down dowm enemies

MarzAttakz.9608:

If you can’t beat them, join them, quite simple really! Maybe it’s time you pve’ers actually did something for the server you’re playing on.

Oh geez here we go again with the false server “be a patriot” speech.
Let it go.

losbananas.8674:

MarzAttakz.9608:

If you can’t beat them, join them, quite simple really! Maybe it’s time you pve’ers actually did something for the server you’re playing on.

Yes, because I’m so thankfull of bonusses that I don’t care about.

Thx thx thx for providing me with something that i neither need or want.
Also, don’t pretend you play WvW to give your server bonusses. You do it because you derive fun from it. So the bonusses are more like an ‘accident de parcours’ then something you strive to achieve.

And when you accidentaly activate a bonus, you deserve no thx for that. If you were to WvW strictly to give bonusses then you would get my thx. But let’s face it, that’s not why you WvW, now is it?

so all the content that was pve only and drove us out of the part of the game we have fun with is cool but asking you to come to our playground is some how bad? Just wondering.

chronometria.3708:

The time to ignore us is over – you`re in our world now.

Talking like that will only get you ignored even more. Watch out, or someday you will wake up and find, that you are alone in your world.

GrandmaFunk.3052:

Opposition isn’t the same thing as griefing.

I agree. What you are going to see will not be opposition, but griefing.

Remember all those people that during WvW season drowned their own side’s golems, drained supply, and generally were doing everything possible to make their side lose? Well, this event is made just for them. Not for people that like contests, challenge and matching up against other players, but for those that get their kicks out of other people’s misfortune. Those that do not play to win, but to make others lose. Preferably in a way that’d make those others as angry as possible.

Obsidian Sanctum kites and aether chests were all about griefing, pure and simple. I see the very same people that enjoyed that content already planning to participate in this one – and for the very same reasons. And a win for them would be a loss for everyone else, either PvE, WvW players or devs.

chronometria.3708:

You say griefing, we say war.

WvW players get poor loot and are forced into content they often don’t like just to get the very weapons they fight with. Long have we been the second class citizens of guildwars 2 and when content is added for us, its usually when something (orbs, quaggans) is taken away.

WvW keeps this game alive. The transfer fees paid by wvw guild migration are considerable and as structured-pvp is rapidly dieing out, wvw is where the pvp side of this game is headed. When Wildstar comes out, WvW will be what holds this game together, or what sinks it if a better home for us is offered. Its about time we got some kudos for the things we do to keep the pve side of the game alive.

So I say unto those venturing into the edge of the mists – come armed and come determined enough that when you fall, you get back up and you hunt out the one who felled you so that you can drive him or her from the mists and into the hands of Grenth himself.

The time to ignore us is over – you`re in our world now.

You have to be a terrible player if you go after easy targets instead of the challenging ones.

GrandmaFunk.3052:

timmyf.1490:

GrandmaFunk.3052:

Opposition isn’t the same thing as griefing.

Then we need a new term for people who enjoy killing players who have no interest in player-to-player combat.

When I see red, I don’t stop and ponder their intentions or what they are interested in doing.. if you don’t react first, you’re the one putting yourself at a disadvantage.

Perhaps you don’t. The typical griefer not only does think about it, but will specifically seek out people that have no interest in PvP combat (they are not interested in normal pvp fights – after all, they might lose in those)

It’s a PvP zone. Those who are killing you are using the map as intended. If you don’t like it, don’t go in there, simple as that.

If you don’t think there should be achievements in the zone, take it up with Anet.