Guild Wars 2

I think Lion’s Arch may fall as collateral damage, mind you… which would be fine with me but she’s not targeting Lion’s Arch.

Why? Well… for one… what does she have to gain by attacking it? Nothing. It’s an illogical target to begin with. The only possible reason she’d have to attack Lion’s Arch after all the trouble she’s gone through to build her army/technology on such a grand scale is if she was a champion of Mordremoth and he wanted her to attack a central hub for all the races…

Even so it’s still lackluster and doesn’t accomplish anything. The races still have their cities and would function just fine. It would simply be an inconvenience for collaborating but it wouldn’t be an end game by any means.

No, she’s not going to attack Lions Arch, at least not for its own sake.

I suspect she’s actually going to attack…

Mordremoth!

She’s not a champion of Mordremoth… more like a puppet and she has a feeling this is the case.

Look at the evidence in the dead end instance again with this thought in mind. Everything points to Scarlet preparing to attack something big, not like a city but like a dragon.

The line that struck me the most was when Marjory suggests the idea that the Dream was put in place more to shield the sylvari from something and when Scarlet had that barrier stripped, she saw something that spoke to her from the other side and has been speaking to her, pulling her, tempting her from the darkness [Pretty much the same language they use in the hints].

I think it’s pretty clear now that the Sylvari were intended minions of the Elder Dragon Mordremoth, the pale tree is a ‘corrupted’ champion of said dragon and Scarlet is resisting the Dragon’s influence but losing ground against it.

I have a feeling the climactic ending to this chapter in the living story will have Scarlet incidentally awaken Mordremoth and open up the Maguuma Jungle or at least have us move in that direction.

Does anyone else have a different theory given the assumptions above?

Wow. Well at at least have to agree with the Lions Arch bit, but the other is crazy and might just be the case and would blow my mine! haha

The schematic in her lab appears to show a giant drill which looks similar to the flying ship housing the Marionette. Although she may have no reason to attack Lion’s Arch itself, beneath Lion’s Arch are ruins containing a path to the destroyers and an asuran gate with a broken link to the eye of the north.

If she really wanted to attack Lion’s Arch though, all she would have to do is take that ship, which is massive, and basically drop in on top of the city. The fall itself would be devastating.

I also was thinking that Scarlet was corrupted by Mordremoth. I don’t know about the whole theory with the Pale Tree but I wouldn’t be disappointed with that.

Lion’s Arch will fall and we will be pushed to a new haven in the Crystal Desert, far away from the Maguuma Jungle. Thus, this will open up multiple maps.

Can only dream right?

Krassix.4017:

Lion’s Arch will fall and we will be pushed to a new haven in the Crystal Desert, far away from the Maguuma Jungle. Thus, this will open up multiple maps.

Can only dream right?

I’m with you on wanting the Crystal Desert man, it’s easily my favourite place in the GW mythos. I just like deserts in video games really… ever since Gerudo valley and crossing the sand storm in OoT… the memories…

Sadly, there’s nothing connecting the storyline to the crystal desert… I don’t think we’ll be going there for a long time… if ever… We’ll just have to be content to dream methinks

Also, another theory!

It’s stated Scarlet knows a secret about Caithe that no one else knows…

My theory [and this would be pretty cool imo]; Caithe’s ‘wild hunt’ wasn’t so much to slay Zhaitan as it was to slay the dragons [in general] and Caithe knows the nature of the origins of all Sylvari [being tied to Mordremoth and all that jazz] and Scarlet is aware that Caithe knows somehow.

There are any number of reasons really – assuming my theory above proves true.

Now I’m getting wildly speculative, but I don’t think that’s much more of a stretch than what I’ve already suggested. Time will tell I suppose.

I believe something is under Lion’s Arch, which would lead to a massive event of terrain changing, rocks flying, and a giant dragon emerging from deep underground.

It can happen.

Mordremoth is too obvious. Red herring if you ask me.

Look over at the lore forums, your theory was suggested weeks ago.

My money is on Primordus. It’s the second most likely but hidden away enough to not really provoke too much interest.

Flissy.4093:

Mordremoth is too obvious. Red herring if you ask me.

Look over at the lore forums, your theory was suggested weeks ago.

My money is on Primordus. It’s the second most likely but hidden away enough to not really provoke too much interest.

I’m with you here, Primordus sounds just right. I really hope that Scarlet is able to get him burst the hell out of LA. That would be so freaking awesome.

I mean we all could be saved/invited by the Tengu and make the Dominion of Winds our new main capital of Tyria while LA is burning to ground and being occupied by Primordus.

Well at least I like that idea.

Mordremoth can’t have control over the Sylvari like that. If he were to awaken, all the Sylvari would then be his minions, right?

Perhaps one of the Gods planted the seed for the Sylvari. Thus creating them. The dream by the Pale Tree is connected to the God’s protection. With that gone, then an Elder Dragon did invade Scarlet’s mind. Or perhaps a Champion of a Dragon.

But if something has control of her, and she’s fighting that, would they not know she’s planning this attack on them? It does seem like she’s actually going after the voice in her head and Tyria is just the collateral damage.

I do believe she has some ulterior motive aside from attacking Lion’s Arch, or at least I’m hoping so as that’d make things more interesting. But I don’t agree about the Sylvari being intended minions of Mordremoth considering there are Sylvari not born of the Pale Tree who have no knowledge of the Dream. These Sylvari are out in the Maguuma Jungle, and we’ve seen at least one who showed no signs of being a dragon’s minion. It’s likely that they’re more susceptible to dragonic influence like the other races of Tyria but not innately servants of one.

The marionette needed extra power sources before it could fully operate. Lion’s Arch is sitting atop a huge junction of “dragon energy” ley lines.

Lion’s Arch isn’t the final target. It may not even be where the final target is. Lion’s Arch is just the power source for her weapon. She needs to “plug in” the marionette there before it’s at full power for its real purpose.

I think she’s still going after the Pale Tree. Both Ceara and Scarlet would want that. Ceara because she doesn’t want to be controlled by it, and Scarlet seems to want to destroy pretty much anything she can get her hands on. We’ve heard her say that what she does, she does for herself, not for whatever may be controlling her, so it has to be a goal that both would want. Right?

Palador.2170:

I think she’s still going after the Pale Tree. Both Ceara and Scarlet would want that. Ceara because she doesn’t want to be controlled by it, and Scarlet seems to want to destroy pretty much anything she can get her hands on. We’ve heard her say that what she does, she does for herself, not for whatever may be controlling her, so it has to be a goal that both would want. Right?

That would coincide with the Mordremoth theory too because the dragon wouldn’t like that there are Sylvari immune to its corruption. Best way to corrupt them would be to go for the source in order to convert them all at once. This could be the manner in which Scarlet and the dragon’s intentions line up, though the former may not fully know the of the latter’s ultimate plan for the Sylvari. Imagine Scarlet’s horror if that were to happen since she may be trying to free the Sylvari from being “controlled”, but she only managed to hand them over to something worse.

Why not both? Primordus and Mord? Two expansions

That guy on twitter that got a sneak peak from Anet said that the content would be better than an expansion.

And what’s better than an expansion? Two expansions! :P

I agree with the OP and posted along those same lines.
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/livingworld/lwd/Mordremoth-painting/first#post3591814

If you are a champion of the jungle dragon, why are you making poisons and creating a machine army?

Lion’s Arch is just a distraction I think. Given that Scarlet has been a genius and has always said she’s been several steps ahead of the characters leads me to believe that LA is the bait she wants. She will make a sizable effort into making it seem threatened, but aside from destroying a few Asura gates there is no reason for her to attack LA save for the speculation of the thumper in the water.

I do remember in one of her spots that the Order’s headquarters were also a notable target. If she is bent on destroying everyone and everything, she would target the real threat posed to her. Destroying the headquarters of the Vigil, Priory and Whispers would leave her with very little contention in terms of tech, forces and travel. This would cripple any allies we might have to aid us and any other cities in a heavy sweep. If she is being controlled by a dragon, this only makes more sense given that the fall of Zhaitan would provoke such a measure.
The benefit of her distraction is that if she succeeded in destroying LA as well, it would cause massive havoc for all races given there would be no way to gain reinforcements for areas readily and with the gates and orders destroyed, it would leave any of the remaining factions too spread out to counter anything thrown at them.

I honestly think Scarlet is aiming to destroy the pacts whilst at the same time uncovering something deep below. She has the firepower, the technology and the numbers.

LA is going to be stomped. The game hasn’t exactly been hiding that Scarlet has designs on the city. How and what they’ll do could be awesome.

Nah. She’s going berserker on the Pale Tree, I bet.

Blockhead Magee.3092:

LA is going to be stomped.

This is some kind of payback for all the bandwidth munched up by afk people. Which is insane troll logic.

Guess we’ll finally have a valid reason for all the tags in LA!

When I started reading the OP, I went… aww here we go. But by the time I got to the end of it, you had me seriously thinking.

It makes sense… the dragon is her biggest fear apparently (and we are assuming that it is the dragon talking to her in her dreams, though anyone who has played the sylvari starting area… pretty compelling evidence of their existence).

Now what I also find interesting is that the location of the thumper itself… is in OLD Lion’s Arch. I don’t recall in GW1 any connection to dragons based under old L.A. Granted GW1 was not entirely a story about dragons (only parts of it had them), but it is definitely one of those things that makes me go hmmm…

All I know is this. I cannot wait for the next update! I am genuinely excited to see what happens.

If L.A. becomes unlivable, I’ll just spend more time in Hoelbrak.

Delvoire.8930:

Mordremoth can’t have control over the Sylvari like that. If he were to awaken, all the Sylvari would then be his minions, right?

Perhaps one of the Gods planted the seed for the Sylvari. Thus creating them. The dream by the Pale Tree is connected to the God’s protection. With that gone, then an Elder Dragon did invade Scarlet’s mind. Or perhaps a Champion of a Dragon.

But if something has control of her, and she’s fighting that, would they not know she’s planning this attack on them? It does seem like she’s actually going after the voice in her head and Tyria is just the collateral damage.

We know who planted the Pale Tree. It was Ventari. He got the seeds from a cave, and nurtured the tree and placed a tablet at its base. What we don’t know is how he knew the seeds would create living beings and how the seeds got into the cave in the first place. I personally think that the sylvari were intended to be servants of Mordremoth, but were corrupted by Ventari (in a good way). The seed was not planted before the Gods’ exile.

Edit: turns out that Ronan planted the Pale Tree.

Mondo.5029:

The line that struck me the most was when Marjory suggests the idea that the Dream was put in place more to shield the sylvari from something and when Scarlet had that barrier stripped, she saw something that spoke to her from the other side and has been speaking to her, pulling her, tempting her from the darkness [Pretty much the same language they use in the hints].

Vorpp: I surmise she was directly exposed to a part of her own psyche that had been carefully walled off. Perhaps for her own protection?
Vorpp: We’d need to do far more extensive study of the sylvari Dream before I could draw any more-detailed conclusions.

While Vorpp’s comment implies the Dream in general may be what walled off part of Ceara’s psyche, this doesn’t mean he is correct or even that the Dream is acting as a shield for the minds of all sylvari.

Seeing as Edge of the Mists is the first permanent full-sized zone that we’ve seen since Southsun Cove…

I think that Mondo might be onto something.

Surely they’ve had enough time to either design a new zone or polish up the remnants of a Maguuma Jungle zone.

It’d be especially impressive if it came with a new dragon champion map event, especially after their improvements to Taco and the recent 3-headed Wurm.

Cormac.3871:

Delvoire.8930:

Mordremoth can’t have control over the Sylvari like that. If he were to awaken, all the Sylvari would then be his minions, right?

Perhaps one of the Gods planted the seed for the Sylvari. Thus creating them. The dream by the Pale Tree is connected to the God’s protection. With that gone, then an Elder Dragon did invade Scarlet’s mind. Or perhaps a Champion of a Dragon.

But if something has control of her, and she’s fighting that, would they not know she’s planning this attack on them? It does seem like she’s actually going after the voice in her head and Tyria is just the collateral damage.

We know who planted the Pale Tree. It was Ventari. He got the seeds from a cave, and nurtured the tree and placed a tablet at its base. What we don’t know is how he knew the seeds would create living beings and how the seeds got into the cave in the first place. I personally think that the sylvari were intended to be servants of Mordremoth, but were corrupted by Ventari (in a good way). The seed was not planted before the Gods’ exile.

Ventari didn’t plant the magic beans, Ronan did. It never occured to Ronan that the tree would bear fruit to intelligent beings, he planted it to honor his dead family. Ventari came around later. You should play gw1 sometime.

smekras.8203:

Mondo.5029:

The line that struck me the most was when Marjory suggests the idea that the Dream was put in place more to shield the sylvari from something and when Scarlet had that barrier stripped, she saw something that spoke to her from the other side and has been speaking to her, pulling her, tempting her from the darkness [Pretty much the same language they use in the hints].

Vorpp: I surmise she was directly exposed to a part of her own psyche that had been carefully walled off. Perhaps for her own protection?
Vorpp: We’d need to do far more extensive study of the sylvari Dream before I could draw any more-detailed conclusions.

While Vorpp’s comment implies the Dream in general may be what walled off part of Ceara’s psyche, this doesn’t mean he is correct or even that the Dream is acting as a shield for the minds of all sylvari.

AH, so it was Vorpp, not Marjory… and my paraphrasing was a little off. Drat.

I agree that it is far from a guarantee that Vorpp’s insight is correct but I think the odds that it is more right than not are good, if for no other reason than it was one of the only ‘new’ bits of commentary we were exposed too in the ‘recap instance’.

Even if it turns out there was some misinformation strewn throughout that instance my feeling is they wouldn’t include that kind of dialog unless it was pertinent to the lore they are trying to create/expand. So for that reason I feel it is fairly likely that Vorpp’s theory is correct.

That and these lines of theories have two other things going for them.

The lead writers have both stated that they are absolutely love the Sylvari and want to do more with them in the story. Any of the more outlandish theories that have been suggested over the last 6 months or so [or longer?] would be interesting and feasible enough to warrant their pursuit.

The other thing is ‘my’ Mordremoth/Pale Tree Champion theory isn’t new by any means. Lots of people have suggested it for a long time now. It’s one of those theories that keeps popping up. It’s also consistently been regarded as fairly unlikely.

With that said, the developers have stated that a few people [I think they said 1 in 10k or 100k?] have guessed correctly the nature of the Living Story climax and/or the Sylvari and it was a theory widely regarded as ‘unlikely’.

That being said there have been little tidbits of evidence cropping up over time to support the Sylvari Origin theory over the course of the living story so who knows.

I’m maintaining a healthy dose of skepticism in preparation for the finale, but I think there’s a lot of potential here. Time will tell if our hopes are vindicated or our dreams are shattered I suppose.

DarcShriek.5829:

Ventari didn’t plant the magic beans, Ronan did. It never occured to Ronan that the tree would bear fruit to intelligent beings, he planted it to honor his dead family. Ventari came around later. You should play gw1 sometime.

Or I should stop believing everything I read on the wikis. According to GW2 wiki they both planted it and the GW1 entry on Ventari implies that Ronan gave him the seed. It was only once I hit The Movement of the World’s page that I actually saw that Ronan had planted the seed.

Suppose the Pale Tree and its sister trees across the deep Maguuma Jungle are Glint-style rebelling champions of Mordremoth? We do know there’s at least one other such tree, and its known offspring is not hostile. That said, I’m not convinced that Scarlet actually resisted Mordremoth’s pull (it may even be Primordus, but that doesn’t fit so well).

I’m not exactly sure why Lion’s Arch would be a target myself… there was never much of consequence there even in GW1; it was just a good place for a sea port. Nowadays it has access to the Mists and is the nexus in inter-city travel, but taking that away wouldn’t stop the Asura from redirecting gates, and Rata Sum has enough gates to spare that it could take over from Lion’s Arch the very next morning.

So… there are only two reasons that seem to hold any credence at all to me: there’s something important in LA we don’t know about (perhaps it’s also a nexus for those magical energy “ley-lines”) or it’s a unifying force to the world that must be shattered before an Elder Dragon can advance in the ensuing chaos.

Given that the three Pact factions are also targets, I’d pick the latter. There’s nothing important about Lion’s Arch, it’s just what it represents that makes it a target. But since LA is hardly the principal base of power, I’m struggling to see what Scarlet / Mordremoth hope to gain by striking mere symbols long-term. Take LA and the Pact out of the picture and you’re still left with all of the main races’ population centres. Any credible threat would at least have to address Rata Sum and the charr legions – those two alone can eclipse the power of the Pact given the right motivation.

Ben K.6238:

So… there are only two reasons that seem to hold any credence at all to me: there’s something important in LA we don’t know about (perhaps it’s also a nexus for those magical energy “ley-lines”) or it’s a unifying force to the world that must be shattered before an Elder Dragon can advance in the ensuing chaos.

Based on Taimi’s conversation with Braham in the Edge of the Mists, Lion’s Arch may well be located above a strong ley line, if not the strongest one. What Scarlet’s aim beyond that is anyone’s guess. She could very well be taking advantage of LA’s significance in a “Kill two birds with one stone” scenario: weaken an important location of her enemies while using the strong ley line for something.

Braham Eirsson: What do you think those probes of Scarlet’s are looking for?
Taimi: Best guess? Um… The transcendent magic channels that span the globe. Old-fashioned Synergetics texts call them ley lines.
Taimi: Normally you can’t see them or touch them, but they’re real. Magic finds its own path, like rivers running to the sea.
Taimi: The probes are trying to identify the biggest and strongest of these ley lines, but I’m not sure why. Not yet.

Scroll down in the “Talk to Braham in the Edge of the Mists” section to see the Incidental Dialogue:
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Edge_of_the_Mists_

Cormac.3871:

We know who planted the Pale Tree. It was Ventari. He got the seeds from a cave, and nurtured the tree and placed a tablet at its base. What we don’t know is how he knew the seeds would create living beings and how the seeds got into the cave in the first place. I personally think that the sylvari were intended to be servants of Mordremoth, but were corrupted by Ventari (in a good way). The seed was not planted before the Gods’ exile.

No, Ronan planted the seeds, which he got from a mysterious cave full of similar seeds, on the grave of his dead family. His friend Ventari wrote the tablet as a monument to him after Ronan died.

“What Ronan knew and never told still lingers in the Dream.” — Amaranda the Lonesome

You know what would be really awesome? It would be not the awakening of just Primordus or Mordremoth but ALL dragons.
I know storywise it wouldn’t make that much sense, but this would cause such a great amount of chaos, that the whole world would be a battlefield.

Well Scarlet could never archive that, nor anyone else.

Another interesting thing would be the battle of the hopefully new elder dragon against a god, or atleast one of the gods would aid the people.

It’s quite off the line, but at least I like that idea xD

Well, suppose that drill will be used at LA, where the node is, I’d think she is going into the underground structures beneath LA, you know, where we went in EotN to find Ogden and Vekk along with the creatures known as destroyers.
- There’s a gate leading to the Eye of the North, maybe the scrying pool is something, she’s interested in… or who knows, there might be other secrets down there we don’t know of just yet.

If an Elder Dragon were to rise, I’d bet on Primordus (or maybe Bubbles have been hiding under LA). I really have no clue… just some ideas.

Cormac.3871:

Delvoire.8930:

Mordremoth can’t have control over the Sylvari like that. If he were to awaken, all the Sylvari would then be his minions, right?

Perhaps one of the Gods planted the seed for the Sylvari. Thus creating them. The dream by the Pale Tree is connected to the God’s protection. With that gone, then an Elder Dragon did invade Scarlet’s mind. Or perhaps a Champion of a Dragon.

But if something has control of her, and she’s fighting that, would they not know she’s planning this attack on them? It does seem like she’s actually going after the voice in her head and Tyria is just the collateral damage.

We know who planted the Pale Tree. It was Ventari. He got the seeds from a cave, and nurtured the tree and placed a tablet at its base. What we don’t know is how he knew the seeds would create living beings and how the seeds got into the cave in the first place. I personally think that the sylvari were intended to be servants of Mordremoth, but were corrupted by Ventari (in a good way). The seed was not planted before the Gods’ exile.

You’re both wrong. The Pale Tree seed was planted by Ronan. Go to http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Ronan

All Ventari did was be a mentor to the Pale Tree, and he’s the guy who created the Ventari Tablet.

Signed,

Lapis <<<—- Loves Sylvari so much that she plays 2 of them.

I still say Lion’s Arch is simply in the way… she’s attacking something under Lion’s Arch (Primordius). However it’s also Primordius’ plan… use Scarlett to infuse him with a burst of magic to allow him to fully awaken. She thinks she’s going to kill him, she’s actually going to feed and free him.

simply put lions arch is destroyed and tengu area opens up as new central city and potential playable race

kta.6502:

Cormac.3871:

Delvoire.8930:

Mordremoth can’t have control over the Sylvari like that. If he were to awaken, all the Sylvari would then be his minions, right?

Perhaps one of the Gods planted the seed for the Sylvari. Thus creating them. The dream by the Pale Tree is connected to the God’s protection. With that gone, then an Elder Dragon did invade Scarlet’s mind. Or perhaps a Champion of a Dragon.

But if something has control of her, and she’s fighting that, would they not know she’s planning this attack on them? It does seem like she’s actually going after the voice in her head and Tyria is just the collateral damage.

We know who planted the Pale Tree. It was Ventari. He got the seeds from a cave, and nurtured the tree and placed a tablet at its base. What we don’t know is how he knew the seeds would create living beings and how the seeds got into the cave in the first place. I personally think that the sylvari were intended to be servants of Mordremoth, but were corrupted by Ventari (in a good way). The seed was not planted before the Gods’ exile.

You’re both wrong. The Pale Tree seed was planted by Ronan. Go to http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Ronan

All Ventari did was be a mentor to the Pale Tree, and he’s the guy who created the Ventari Tablet.

Signed,

Lapis <<<—- Loves Sylvari so much that she plays 2 of them.

I did actually I never looked into the Pale Tree until I noticed the response by Cormac. Now I know, and knowing is half the battle

I enjoyed the parts about the Nightmare Court as well and how they think the teachings of Ventari are wrong. I actually sympathize with the Nightmare Court. They may be right.

Still, where did the beans come from? It says it was a cave filled with other oddities and plants? It also didn’t say where the cave was. I didn’t play GW1 so I’m unaware. Whose cave was it and where are the OTHER plants that were there?

What if it wasn’t a seed but an egg?

sephard.2470:

What if it wasn’t a seed but an egg?

Even if that’s the case, it’s an issue of semantics. The seed/egg grows into a tree.

You can actually visit the Pale Tree in GW1. It’s just a sapling at the time, but it’s there.
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Ventari%27s_sanctuary