Guild Wars 2

Taygus.4571:

Leo Paul.1659:

Taygus.4571:

Leo Paul.1659:

Taygus.4571:

Kumu Honua.2751:

Taygus.4571:

They are denying the success of the event!
How is it people can argue differently???

So are the people who are rubble clearing. So are the people who are zerging miasma events. So are the people who don’t know what the are doing, so are the people who are waiting to get rezzed instead of waypointing. So are the people who are running non-zerk gear. So are the people who are underleveled. So are the people who have terrible builds.

Ban them all!

Note: This is sarcasm to make a point.

At least most of these are/were doing something. Not just standing there for free loot.

They are denying the success of the event nevertheless. You’re not gonna go off about intention too, are you?

Actually most people I’ve seen going for rubble encourage/rez a few civs along the way, ..those who died were likelly fighting in an event.

They are doing something!

Players logging in to just afk, make it harder to reach 1200 civs, it’s really that simple.
Then they get loot for doing nothing at all.

While other players had to work harder to reach the tiers.

Pure speculation. Say those afk players were to participate and upscale events then end up denying other players of getting the triple threat achievement? (yay i can use slippery slopes too)

This is getting rediculous.
Are you denying that players enter LA, just to afk for loot?

They stand around wp. (or other ‘safe’ places) using auto run/heal, for the ENTIRE event.

It’s simple, they are getting stuff from other peoples work.

They are getting something for doing nothing at all, and worse, they prevent other active players joining together by taking spots, which makes it near impossible to reach the tier.

Really, how can you defend that??? …unless of course you’re one of those afk’ers.

I’m not denying that people afk for loot. It’s just that if you’re gonna demonize afkers for not contributing, then you have to define what they should be contributing towards. If you mean the citizen counter, there are people who are just as responsible even though they aren’t afk.

Taygus.4571:

Leo Paul.1659:

Taygus.4571:

Leo Paul.1659:

Taygus.4571:

Kumu Honua.2751:

Taygus.4571:

They are denying the success of the event!
How is it people can argue differently???

So are the people who are rubble clearing. So are the people who are zerging miasma events. So are the people who don’t know what the are doing, so are the people who are waiting to get rezzed instead of waypointing. So are the people who are running non-zerk gear. So are the people who are underleveled. So are the people who have terrible builds.

Ban them all!

Note: This is sarcasm to make a point.

At least most of these are/were doing something. Not just standing there for free loot.

They are denying the success of the event nevertheless. You’re not gonna go off about intention too, are you?

Actually most people I’ve seen going for rubble encourage/rez a few civs along the way, ..those who died were likelly fighting in an event.

They are doing something!

Players logging in to just afk, make it harder to reach 1200 civs, it’s really that simple.
Then they get loot for doing nothing at all.

While other players had to work harder to reach the tiers.

Pure speculation. Say those afk players were to participate and upscale events then end up denying other players of getting the triple threat achievement? (yay i can use slippery slopes too)

This is getting rediculous.
Are you denying that players enter LA, just to afk for loot?

They stand around wp. (or other ‘safe’ places) using auto run/heal, for the ENTIRE event.

It’s simple, they are getting stuff from other peoples work.

They are getting something for doing nothing at all, and worse, they prevent other active players joining together by taking spots, which makes it near impossible to reach the tier.

Really, how can you defend that??? …unless of course you’re one of those afk’ers.

I’m not, I’m simply saying it’s not your business.

I don’t know why they would do anything, the autolog won’t go off in 45 minutes.

They are getting rewarded by the system. Everyone in the event is being rewarded by other people’s work, every single person.

They are getting something for nothing, but they don’t prevent anyone from anything. Everyone who wants to participate will participate in an overflow if not the main. They’re not interfering with tiers any more than anyone else.

I can defend it because it’s not my business and I understand that. I do what I do and I don’t stress about what other people are doing because it doesn’t concern nor effect me.

Kal Spiro.9745:

AFKers are not making it harder to do anything. Other players are doing the same thing they would be doing whether they were there or not. Nothing changes. A handful more people won’t change anything. Even several handfuls won’t change anything.

There is often about 10 afk’s by each portal. then I normally see about 5 across the map.

Thats at least 35 players, out of 150………..
are you actually saying that 1/5 players doing NOTHING, won’t make it harder to save 1200 civs?
I mean seriously?
Thats one player in every party doing nothing, not even trying to do something they are doing nothing.
And that isn’t going to have an affect?

Taygus.4571:

Kal Spiro.9745:

AFKers are not making it harder to do anything. Other players are doing the same thing they would be doing whether they were there or not. Nothing changes. A handful more people won’t change anything. Even several handfuls won’t change anything.

There is often about 10 afk’s by each portal. then I normally see about 5 across the map.

Thats at least 35 players, out of 150………..
are you actually saying that 1/5 players doing NOTHING, won’t make it harder to save 1200 civs?
I mean seriously?
Thats one player in every party doing nothing, not even trying to do something they are doing nothing.
And that isn’t going to have an affect?

Why don’t you do the math and tell us all about it? This isn’t sarcasm. I seriously wanna know the math.

I do not know if this has been said, already, in this long thread but the whole point of the event is to reward players who like to grind for an event item and +MF. Try not to sweat it so much.

The rewards are garbage anyways. It isn’t worth the electricity to sit afk in LA.

Stormcrow.7513:

The rewards are garbage anyways. It isn’t worth the electricity to sit afk in LA.

This. If anyone is sitting in LA doing nothing, they are doing themselves disservice. People who go to LA to afk for profit via the ultimate citizen bag would’ve realized by now how unrewarding it is.

Taygus.4571:

Kal Spiro.9745:

AFKers are not making it harder to do anything. Other players are doing the same thing they would be doing whether they were there or not. Nothing changes. A handful more people won’t change anything. Even several handfuls won’t change anything.

There is often about 10 afk’s by each portal. then I normally see about 5 across the map.

Thats at least 35 players, out of 150………..
are you actually saying that 1/5 players doing NOTHING, won’t make it harder to save 1200 civs?
I mean seriously?
Thats one player in every party doing nothing, not even trying to do something they are doing nothing.
And that isn’t going to have an affect?

That’s exactly what I’m saying. 1/5 spread out can accommodate all civilian rescuing needs. The other 3/5ths divided among the three event groups. It only takes about 5 people to successfully complete an event so 3/5ths is overkill, but whatever.

Leo Paul.1659:

Taygus.4571:

Kal Spiro.9745:

AFKers are not making it harder to do anything. Other players are doing the same thing they would be doing whether they were there or not. Nothing changes. A handful more people won’t change anything. Even several handfuls won’t change anything.

There is often about 10 afk’s by each portal. then I normally see about 5 across the map.

Thats at least 35 players, out of 150………..
are you actually saying that 1/5 players doing NOTHING, won’t make it harder to save 1200 civs?
I mean seriously?
Thats one player in every party doing nothing, not even trying to do something they are doing nothing.
And that isn’t going to have an affect?

Why don’t you do the math and tell us all about it? This isn’t sarcasm. I seriously wanna know the math.

It’s possible to complete a miasma event with 5 people. I did it with 3, but it was rough, so 5 is good. Miasma events are the hardest of the events cause they’re timed. So we’ll give 5 per event for optimal efficiency. There are three Miasma events, three guard events and four regular defend events. Figuring five people per event means all events can be handled with 50 people total. I will allocate another 5 people per rescue group. I know of five major rescue locations, there may be more. Rescuing, though cycles. Once you rescue a group they won’t be back immediate, so it’s probable that one rescue group can easily accommodate two locations. So 25 people on rescue. With 35 AFKers, that leaves 40 people to do whatever they want to for a consistent 1200 rescues.

Aerinndis.2730:

Anyone I saw AFK usually ended up dead….there did not seem to be many safe spots in LA….

The pirate jp is safe. Waltz in there, get halfway up, or even all the way to the last room, and sit by the chest. Afk and play Pokemon or minecraft or something, check back occasionally to move a step, etc

Kal Spiro.9745:

Leo Paul.1659:

Taygus.4571:

Kal Spiro.9745:

AFKers are not making it harder to do anything. Other players are doing the same thing they would be doing whether they were there or not. Nothing changes. A handful more people won’t change anything. Even several handfuls won’t change anything.

There is often about 10 afk’s by each portal. then I normally see about 5 across the map.

Thats at least 35 players, out of 150………..
are you actually saying that 1/5 players doing NOTHING, won’t make it harder to save 1200 civs?
I mean seriously?
Thats one player in every party doing nothing, not even trying to do something they are doing nothing.
And that isn’t going to have an affect?

Why don’t you do the math and tell us all about it? This isn’t sarcasm. I seriously wanna know the math.

It’s possible to complete a miasma event with 5 people. I did it with 3, but it was rough, so 5 is good. Miasma events are the hardest of the events cause they’re timed. So we’ll give 5 per event for optimal efficiency. There are three Miasma events, three guard events and four regular defend events. Figuring five people per event means all events can be handled with 50 people total. I will allocate another 5 people per rescue group. I know of five major rescue locations, there may be more. Rescuing, though cycles. Once you rescue a group they won’t be back immediate, so it’s probable that one rescue group can easily accommodate two locations. So 25 people on rescue. With 35 AFKers, that leaves 40 people to do whatever they want to for a consistent 1200 rescues.

I think people are missing the point about civs having a timer and fixed locations.

http://i.imgur.com/ASh3J9V.png

Leo Paul.1659:

Kal Spiro.9745:

Leo Paul.1659:

Taygus.4571:

Kal Spiro.9745:

AFKers are not making it harder to do anything. Other players are doing the same thing they would be doing whether they were there or not. Nothing changes. A handful more people won’t change anything. Even several handfuls won’t change anything.

There is often about 10 afk’s by each portal. then I normally see about 5 across the map.

Thats at least 35 players, out of 150………..
are you actually saying that 1/5 players doing NOTHING, won’t make it harder to save 1200 civs?
I mean seriously?
Thats one player in every party doing nothing, not even trying to do something they are doing nothing.
And that isn’t going to have an affect?

Why don’t you do the math and tell us all about it? This isn’t sarcasm. I seriously wanna know the math.

It’s possible to complete a miasma event with 5 people. I did it with 3, but it was rough, so 5 is good. Miasma events are the hardest of the events cause they’re timed. So we’ll give 5 per event for optimal efficiency. There are three Miasma events, three guard events and four regular defend events. Figuring five people per event means all events can be handled with 50 people total. I will allocate another 5 people per rescue group. I know of five major rescue locations, there may be more. Rescuing, though cycles. Once you rescue a group they won’t be back immediate, so it’s probable that one rescue group can easily accommodate two locations. So 25 people on rescue. With 35 AFKers, that leaves 40 people to do whatever they want to for a consistent 1200 rescues.

I think people are missing the point about civs having a timer and fixed locations.

http://i.imgur.com/ASh3J9V.png

Escort required is also a misnomer in that pic. You don’t have to follow them, you just have to make sure you killed the mobs that will attack them.

If anyone from Arena Net cares (and I doubt that they do, content with letting this LS run its course) the hill in the center of this screen shot is a common place for characters to stand AFK.

Enemies will retreat as soon as you climb to the top, so AFK’ers don’t need worry about accidentally catching an enemy’s attention or having a fight taken to them.

Todd.8162:

If anyone from Arena Net cares (and I doubt that they do, content with letting this LS run its course) the hill in the center of this screen shot is a common place for characters to stand AFK.

Enemies will retreat as soon as you climb to the top, so AFK’ers don’t need worry about accidentally catching an enemy’s attention or having a fight taken to them.

Is it also safe from space lasers?

Stormcrow and others have it right: Do not worry about AFKers. If someone needs a break to salvage, use the facilities, or watch TV, let them. The game will not reward them much at all. Collecting heirlooms and lots of bags of ascended materials and child’s drawings is an unforgiving grind that only really rewards with a lot of effort. If people need to take a break, let them, and if they are perpetual time-wasters, that is fine, too.

Kal Spiro.9745:

Sariel V.7024:

Kal Spiro.9745:

Maybe people should get over themselves and learn to mind their own business.

So, you’re one of the leeches.

Yup, I’m a leech. I hang out by the ruins of the forge doing the Dolyaks, the Children, defending the Trader’s Forum and occasionally Miasma over and over again. Sometimes I run up to the BLTC building to encourage traders when there’s a lull. Otherwise I just stand there by the forge watching the city burn.

I wouldn’t quantify that as leeching; maintaining a post in an active flight path and doing events does help (provided you succeed). We’re talking about people that waltz through the door and then stick a thumb up their kitten while they wait for presents to be doled out, which more often then not contributes to everyone in the event getting less and anger all around. So, yeah, it has been MADE my business.

Sariel V.7024:

Kal Spiro.9745:

Sariel V.7024:

Kal Spiro.9745:

Maybe people should get over themselves and learn to mind their own business.

So, you’re one of the leeches.

Yup, I’m a leech. I hang out by the ruins of the forge doing the Dolyaks, the Children, defending the Trader’s Forum and occasionally Miasma over and over again. Sometimes I run up to the BLTC building to encourage traders when there’s a lull. Otherwise I just stand there by the forge watching the city burn.

I wouldn’t quantify that as leeching; maintaining a post in an active flight path and doing events does help (provided you succeed). We’re talking about people that waltz through the door and then stick a thumb up their kitten while they wait for presents to be doled out, which more often then not contributes to everyone in the event getting less and anger all around. So, yeah, it has been MADE my business.

I know what we’re talking about, and what I actually classify as. I was simply pointing out the invalidity of your claim, which was based on nothing more than disliking my stance on the matter.

I recommend actually following the thread since you last posted. We did the math and figured out that the “leechers” aren’t interfering with anyone. So, no, it’s still not your business.

Sariel V.7024:

Kal Spiro.9745:

Sariel V.7024:

Kal Spiro.9745:

Maybe people should get over themselves and learn to mind their own business.

So, you’re one of the leeches.

Yup, I’m a leech. I hang out by the ruins of the forge doing the Dolyaks, the Children, defending the Trader’s Forum and occasionally Miasma over and over again. Sometimes I run up to the BLTC building to encourage traders when there’s a lull. Otherwise I just stand there by the forge watching the city burn.

I wouldn’t quantify that as leeching; maintaining a post in an active flight path and doing events does help (provided you succeed). We’re talking about people that waltz through the door and then stick a thumb up their kitten while they wait for presents to be doled out, which more often then not contributes to everyone in the event getting less and anger all around. So, yeah, it has been MADE my business.

It’s your problem if you get upset over people afking in events. As I’ve stated in a similar general discussion thread: getting to 1200 citizens = killing teq. I don’t suppose gm’s go about exerting haxX0rz kicking powers to ensure a teq kill right? If you happen to be in main or in a good overflow, then good for you. But you have no right to ask people to go away from sparkfly fen just because they aren’t there to kill teq with you.

ShiningSquirrel.3751:

Leo Paul.1659:

JustTrogdor.7892:

Leo Paul.1659:

If it’s an emergency would you really go back to your game to get your character out of LA? -_- Helping the community = forcing you to play a certain way? What if I just like going into LA for extra profit while playing the TP?

Good grief. Keep trying to defend AFK leeching all you want. Okay, yeah if your house is on fire then I guess it is okay to AFK. LOL

No one is forcing you to play a certain way, but if you take part in the LA event where a significant part requires actually participating then you should be willing to participate in one way or another. Unless you house catches fire. HAHA

Nothing in the mechanics require me to do anything to get the citizen supply bags. How does one measure contribution? I’m also playing the game, just not how you want me to. You want to penalize people because they’re getting rewards just for standing idly while chatting or for playing the TP or heck, have their houses on fire instead of saving citizens? Then they shouldn’t have designed it that way in the first place.

As the players who keep defending this like to say, it was a design flaw. Taking advantage of a design flaw is exploiting the game. Using an exploit is against the TOS.
So by the arguments given here my the AFK crowd, in their own words, they are using an exploit and should be suspended/banned.

End of story.

So…by your (flawed) logic, if I were to go into LA, and instead of contributing to any event what so ever, just ran around and cleared rubble piles to find Heirlooms, which don’t contribute to the rescued civilian count in any way, and also just farmed random mobs without ever once attempting an event, or helping a civilian, I’d also be considered an AFKer since I’m just taking up a spot and not doing anything productive to the event.

See the problem with your argument? Where do you determine a person’s value in this instance? Should everyone who zones in be required to participate in every event and make the civilian count go up? What about people that just want to kill mobs and farm Heirlooms? Are they not allowed to do that because they’re not interested in helping out others with the rewards?

I’m not agreeing that the people that go AFK in the zone should be awarded for doing so, but at the same page, I don’t think they should be banned or suspended for doing it, nor should players who aren’t actively contributing to the zone’s meta event be punished for not wanting to take part in the various events in the zone for whatever reason.

And besides all this, Anet has an easy answer to the AFK problem that in their infinite wisdom, decided not to implement: If you’re AFK for more than a few minutes, the game auto-kicks you just like it does in SPvP or Activities.

Kumu Honua.2751:

Since I have been having extreme difficulty staying connected during the event, I have started to go into the lake. Where there is little traffic to “afk”. Mostly I fight my internet connection in the hopes that I can actually get enough found relics for the items. I do not succeed all the time and frequently get disconnected over and over again.

I’ve had people show up and immediately drag enemies to me. Which I then fight immediately. Half the time I disconnect when that starts up.

I am at my keyboard. I am “playing” the game. I am simply not contributing to the event itself as I cannot do so currently and it’s not your right to deny me access to the game.

If I could get enough relics SIMPLY by doing the daily rubble, then I wouldn’t even bother, but that’s not the case.

I have so far not gotten a “Full run” and not even close. Mostly because I cannot stay connected to a server and get dumped into an overflow with only 300 or so at the 45 minute mark.

So I personally dislike that Anet seems to be banning people for being afk, especially without even testing if they are indeed afk or not. If my account gets banned for my activity, I will most certainly raise one hell of a fuss.

I have no sympathy. I’ve been fighting the same thing, disconnecting every three to five minutes and sometimes having to reboot the game entirely. Being an active member of [MEDx], I’m pretty sure they got sick of constantly ferrying me back into their overflow (when that was even possible, which was 20% of the time), and my wife gets concerned about how infuriated I get over something I’m doing ‘for fun’. I still manage to contribute rescues, and I get all the heirlooms run after about my 4th time in. I’m not superhuman, just determined, and determined to make sure my team succeeds.

It may not be my right to deny you access, but it sure as kitten is not your right to deny other people access. Stop being a hypocrite.

Kal Spiro.9745:

I recommend actually following the thread since you last posted. We did the math and figured out that the “leechers” aren’t interfering with anyone. So, no, it’s still not your business.

That’s the wonderful thing about statistics. Properly presented, they’re the one area of mathematics where you can pass off lies as truth.

So, yeah, still my business.

Sariel V.7024:

Kumu Honua.2751:

Since I have been having extreme difficulty staying connected during the event, I have started to go into the lake. Where there is little traffic to “afk”. Mostly I fight my internet connection in the hopes that I can actually get enough found relics for the items. I do not succeed all the time and frequently get disconnected over and over again.

I’ve had people show up and immediately drag enemies to me. Which I then fight immediately. Half the time I disconnect when that starts up.

I am at my keyboard. I am “playing” the game. I am simply not contributing to the event itself as I cannot do so currently and it’s not your right to deny me access to the game.

If I could get enough relics SIMPLY by doing the daily rubble, then I wouldn’t even bother, but that’s not the case.

I have so far not gotten a “Full run” and not even close. Mostly because I cannot stay connected to a server and get dumped into an overflow with only 300 or so at the 45 minute mark.

So I personally dislike that Anet seems to be banning people for being afk, especially without even testing if they are indeed afk or not. If my account gets banned for my activity, I will most certainly raise one hell of a fuss.

I have no sympathy. I’ve been fighting the same thing, disconnecting every three to five minutes and sometimes having to reboot the game entirely. Being an active member of [MEDx], I’m pretty sure they got sick of constantly ferrying me back into their overflow (when that was even possible, which was 20% of the time), and my wife gets concerned about how infuriated I get over something I’m doing ‘for fun’. I still manage to contribute rescues, and I get all the heirlooms run after about my 4th time in. I’m not superhuman, just determined, and determined to make sure my team succeeds.

It may not be my right to deny you access, but it sure as kitten is not your right to deny other people access. Stop being a hypocrite.

No one is denying you access to the event.

Leo Paul.1659:

Why don’t you do the math and tell us all about it? This isn’t sarcasm. I seriously wanna know the math.

Why is it always BG players? Is the community really that self absorbed? People are just asking you to contribute, in some way, even if it’s only a little.

Your entire argument is based on I get rewarded for doing nothing, so I do it. That may float on the BG server, but to everyone else you look like a kitten.

I find this discussion to be highly entertaining.

I’ll admit that I was initially annoyed at seeing so many AFKers in this event. I think most of us have gotten the achievements by now so for me, it comes down to whether these people could have contributed toward saving 1,200 civilians or not. There are times when I am sure it would have made a difference and it makes me upset to see people just hanging out by the waypoint or tucked away underwater in a safe spot the entire time while I’m running around trying to save people and help at events that need more people.

Then I started thinking about all the real life things that could be going on which takes people away from the game unexpectedly. A toddler has a major meltdown, a water pipe burst, a family member has a medical emergency…things like this do occur and I would not want to unfairly punish people for dealing with these things. Of course, I am sure there are plenty of people who go into Lion’s Arch with the intent of doing nothing to get free loot, but I try not to dwell on that now.

Perhaps rewards for events like this could be changed in the future where it requires some involvement to get loot as this is definitely a “hot button” issue for all concerned.

FearedbytheGods.8617:

Leo Paul.1659:

Why don’t you do the math and tell us all about it? This isn’t sarcasm. I seriously wanna know the math.

Why is it always BG players? Is the community really that self absorbed? People are just asking you to contribute, in some way, even if it’s only a little.

Your entire argument is based on I get rewarded for doing nothing, so I do it. That may float on the BG server, but to everyone else you look like a kitten.

Why do you assume that those of us that support peoples rights to do what they want as means we also actually do the things you’re complaining about?

I don’t know for a fact that Leo isn’t an AFKer, but based on the arguments used and general stance I’m pretty secure in the assertion that he isn’t.

Just because you want to stop something doesn’t mean anyone who disagrees with you is doing it.

Sariel V.7024:

Kal Spiro.9745:

I recommend actually following the thread since you last posted. We did the math and figured out that the “leechers” aren’t interfering with anyone. So, no, it’s still not your business.

That’s the wonderful thing about statistics. Properly presented, they’re the one area of mathematics where you can pass off lies as truth.

So, yeah, still my business.

That’s true. Statistics can be used for some amazing things. That was not statistics, nor even algebra. That was arithmetic. That was simply adding up numbers based on actual activity inside the game. That is factual data from having done it myself. So, if that is too advanced to see why it isn’t and never will be your business, I really can’t help you.

Kal Spiro.9745:

Why do you assume that those of us that support peoples rights to do what they want as means we also actually do the things you’re complaining about?

Why do you assume?

Kal Spiro.9745:

I don’t know for a fact that Leo isn’t an AFKer

Fixed

Kal Spiro.9745:

Just because you want to stop something doesn’t mean anyone who disagrees with you is doing it.

But then again…

JustTrogdor.7892:

It’s called being considerate of other players. Something a lot of people in this game and most MMOs seem to lack.

True, being inconsiderate of other players is not a good trait. It’s not a bannable offense, however – or even a basis for a “mere” kick. If it were, half the zone would have to be kicked, since (as you have already noticed), it is a trait that a lot of people in this game share. Including all those people claiming that players who do not help them save surviviors should be kicked/banned.

Taygus.4571:

you can’t really make up for other peoples failure when there are 30-40 afk. It’s nearly impossible to catch up and save enough civs while also having people in events, with nearly 1/4 of people on the map doing nothing at all.

Then you have failed before you even started. After all, if those people weren’t afk, they’d be most likely farming events/running heirlooms. Not helping survivors. Nothing would have really changed.

And you don’t need that much people to win, really. If half the zone is farming, and 1/4 is afking, mapping or doing heirlooms, then as long as the remaining 1/4 is saving survivors in efficient and organized way, it’s still enough to get to 1200.

AFK-leeching is a behaviour that is damaging to both the community and the game. This is undeniably true. Unfortunately, vigilante dev actions that are based on emotions, not on actual rules, are far more destructive. There are very few things that can happen to the game that are worse than power-drunk management.

There is a limited number of citizens you can encourage at any one time. If everyone were running around rescuing citizens, there would still only be a few players actively reaching them and encouraging them. That is why the escort events and the defend events are also there, but each of these events still only requires a very small number of people to succeed, and indeed too many people scales the event to the point where success is less likely. So really, a maximum of people can contribute at any particular time.

Therefore, 10-20 ppl going afk in the map doesn’t actually affect the success of reaching 1200 citizens as much as it might seem initially. I frequently run to all the places I know citizens are, only to find there aren’t any as someone else got there first. I’m not going to simply stand around and wait for them to respawn (and, ironically, that would get me accused of being afk), so I leave and do something else – that is no different to what an afk-er would do, only he/she hasn’t had to run all the way there in the first place.

I do agree that I don’t quite understand the point of going afk in LA at the moment – the rewards are hardly worth it, and you’d probably get more loot just running around a map somewhere killing trash mobs. But I don’t think they contribute any more to the success or failure of tier 5 than someone else running around with a zerg or dying and refusing to way point or running around collecting heirlooms.

CrossedHorse.4261:

I do agree that I don’t quite understand the point of going afk in LA at the moment – the rewards are hardly worth it, and you’d probably get more loot just running around a map somewhere killing trash mobs.

Easy, ~logs into game, goes to LA, afk~

Then goes do some work/study/cleaning etc.

free loot.

Taygus.4571:

CrossedHorse.4261:

I do agree that I don’t quite understand the point of going afk in LA at the moment – the rewards are hardly worth it, and you’d probably get more loot just running around a map somewhere killing trash mobs.

Easy, ~logs into game, goes to LA, afk~

Then goes do some work/study/cleaning etc.

free loot.

That’s exactly the point. I can stay on the hill, autoattack my heal skill and do my work while loot comes to me with no effort. How is it my fault?

I couldnt read all the thread but this is what i am thinking atm:

There is a big lack of organization, and that is the reason why we fail to get the 1200. It isnt bcs of the afkers, or the people searching for heirlooms or something else. The times we did it better were when a few players stay in the specific areas were citizens are. It doesnt require many people to do it tbh, some times we are 2 or 3 in one area and we do it ok (even 1 can do it, but isnt the most efficient way).

I think that many people dont go to rescue citizens bcs they dont know the places, then they just stay with the zergs bcs is the easier way to get stuffs.

Here is a map i found in the wiki, i think we could use it to have a better organization:

Link: http://wiki.guildwars2.com/images/f/f8/Civilian_Evacuation_Location_Map.png

Perma AFKers are selfish, simple as that. Doesn’t matter who says what to defend them. I would be ashamed to stand there and let other people do all the work.

If you wanna afk LA is place to be. I have been afk there since launch.

@FearedbytheGods
Way to disregard a valid argument and respond with what amounts to “Nuh uh!”

I’ll be sure not to bother responding to you in the future since you obviously have nothing to offer to the discussion.

crazy.9083:

Perma AFKers are selfish, simple as that. Doesn’t matter who says what to defend them. I would be ashamed to stand there and let other people do all the work.

In your opinion they are selfish. The same could be said about those complaining about the afkers, or anyone not doing what they want in general. Also while you may feel ashamed for doing nothing in a video game and being rewarded others may not.

Darkbattlemage.9612:

crazy.9083:

Perma AFKers are selfish, simple as that. Doesn’t matter who says what to defend them. I would be ashamed to stand there and let other people do all the work.

In your opinion they are selfish. The same could be said about those complaining about the afkers, or anyone not doing what they want in general. Also while you may feel ashamed for doing nothing in a video game and being rewarded others may not.

No, there is no legitimate defense here. Perma AFKers are selfish, and greedy AND lazy. If they weren’t all these things they would be doing anything else to get better rewards than nothing.

No one is defending AFKers for being AFK. Except maybe some of the AFKers themselves. We’re defending their right to be AFK whether we find it distasteful or not.

Okay, I’ve done a bunch of interviews on the afk people since I last post two days ago, here’s what I found:

interview attempted: 80
Interview accomplished: 57
Interview failed reason: no response

Questions asked:
Why would you afk in LA?

Protest against other active but non contributors (70%)
Enjoying the landscape (5%)
I paid for gw2, I do what I want (10%)
Trolling comments (15%)

If all LA events have an reward system that scales with your contribution to only that event, would you still choose to afk in LA?
Yes, afk is my right (30%)
No, I have no higher incentive to afk here than in other zone (55%)
Trolling comments (15%)

All statistics are rounded to the nearest 5 or 0%.

Conclusion: People afk in LA for various and seems to be legit reasons, and as long as the reward system is unfix, people will still be highly likely to afk in LA. For future reference, this whole map reward system should be avoided to prevent exploitation.

Kal Spiro.9745:

No, there is no legitimate defense here. Perma AFKers are selfish, and greedy AND lazy. If they weren’t all these things they would be doing anything else to get better rewards than nothing.

Why are they selfish, because they don’t care about you? Couldn’t the same be said about you or those who are calling them out? How are they greedy? Wouldn’t those who are farming be even more greedy than they are? How are they lazy? More importantly why does the opposition classify them as lazy? With relative ease these arguments can be flipped onto the opposition themselves.

Darkbattlemage.9612:

Kal Spiro.9745:

No, there is no legitimate defense here. Perma AFKers are selfish, and greedy AND lazy. If they weren’t all these things they would be doing anything else to get better rewards than nothing.

Why are they selfish, because they don’t care about you? Couldn’t the same be said about you or those who are calling them out? How are they greedy? Wouldn’t those who are farming be greedier? How are they lazy? More importantly why does the opposition classify them as lazy? With relative ease these arguments can be flipped onto the opposition themselves.

Last statement first: Could be, but not easily, and I’m not the opposition.

They are selfish because they’re unwilling to put in an effort to participate while still expecting to get something out of it. Greedy because they want more than they’ve earned. Lazy because they’re only willing to put in the least amount of effort (no effort at all) to get it.

What they are doing is not good and should not be defended. It isn’t right and it obviously isn’t right.

What should be defended, what needs to be defended, and what is being defended is their right to do it anyway. Because as it stands no one has the right to tell them otherwise.

So there is a defense force for AFKers, too?
This forum never ceases to amuse me.

Kal Spiro.9745:

Last statement first: Could be, but not easily, and I’m not the opposition.

I know you not the opposition, I however couldn’t think of a good means of avoiding accidentally grouping you into that group.

Kal Spiro.9745:

They are selfish because they’re unwilling to put in an effort to participate while still expecting to get something out of it. Greedy because they want more than they’ve earned. Lazy because they’re only willing to put in the least amount of effort (no effort at all) to get it.

Can’t all this be applied to every gamer then? Selfish because each gamer can’t see past their own desires. Greedy because they find more value in a virtual item than helping another player. Lazy because instead of undertaking the efforts to bring this to ArenaNet’s direct attention, they instead want the banning of players who don’t conform to their beliefs or opinions.

As mention be others the problem isn’t the player base but rather the flaws within the design. A major hurdle however is there is no easy solution that won’t cause problems of their own. This is the price for an Open World one has to accept the Good, the Bad, and the Ugly of the gaming community without any in-game means of dealing with those elements. At least within an instance one could control the quality of players they play with to a certain degree, although this has problems of its own.

Kal Spiro.9745:

What they are doing is not good and should not be defended. It isn’t right and it obviously isn’t right.

Bad, Good, Right, Wrong are all subjective in this debate. They are not breaking any of the terms of service they consented to, thus they are doing nothing “wrong”. They are not actively harming players with their inactivity, unlike those players who lure mobs to these players to kill and then resurrect to give them huge repair bills. That in itself should be a bannable offense as there is malicious intent while the AFKer’s intents are unknown.

Also their actions should be defended as they have not broken any rules set by ArenaNet, thus should not be even considered for banning. As for breaking unspoken rules of gaming etiquette, everyone is guilty of that crime even if they are unaware of it.

Kal Spiro.9745:

What should be defended, what needs to be defended, and what is being defended is their right to do it anyway. Because as it stands no one has the right to tell them otherwise.

To be honest I think the matter shouldn’t have been made into a debatable topic to begin with, nor should it have gone as long as it has.

Nadesh.7953:

Here is a map i found in the wiki, i think we could use it to have a better organization:

Link: http://wiki.guildwars2.com/images/f/f8/Civilian_Evacuation_Location_Map.png

To whoever made this map, thank you so much, it helped the community a lot. This map needs to be updated though as there are some missing locations of civs. Volunteers anyone?

Manuhell.2759:

So there is a defense force for AFKers, too?
This forum never ceases to amuse me.

While I respect your parochial assumption (in order to conform with forum and social etiquette), I would also like to propose a counter argument. So it begins….

AFKing has never been a crime, but the situation in LA makes it “inappropriate” if you believe in situation ethics which many people don’t*.
This can be alleviated by a more complete and sensible system which reward players according to their accomplishment.
To complicate this situation even more, active but non-contributing players are left unpunished which raised the question of the validity of this situation ethics. Why only afk players are discriminated against?

After reading my arguments, hopefully it will shred some light of how big the problem actually is, and not to quickly judge and discriminate against a single group.

*An example of situation ethic is “taking a human life is unacceptable but abortion due to inability to raise the child is acceptable.” See how controversial it is.

Cyvien.8049:

Why only afk players are discriminated against?

They are perceived as the easier target by the opposition. If something can’t defend itself, it will nearly always be targeted.

Cyvien.8049:

While I respect your parochial assumption (in order to conform with forum and social etiquette), I would also like to propose a counter argument. So it begins….

AFKing has never been a crime, but the situation in LA makes it “inappropriate” if you believe in situation ethics which many people don’t*.
This can be alleviated by a more complete and sensible system which reward players according to their accomplishment.
To complicate this situation even more, active but non-contributing players are left unpunished which raised the question of the validity of this situation ethics. Why only afk players are discriminated against?

After reading my arguments, hopefully it will shred some light of how big the problem actually is, and not to quickly judge and discriminate against a single group.

*An example of situation ethic is “taking a human life is unacceptable but abortion due to inability to raise the child is acceptable.” See how controversial it is.

I dare say this whole mess has nothing to do with situation(al) ethics at all. Let’s leave god out of it please.

Manasa Devi.7958:

Cyvien.8049:

While I respect your parochial assumption (in order to conform with forum and social etiquette), I would also like to propose a counter argument. So it begins….

AFKing has never been a crime, but the situation in LA makes it “inappropriate” if you believe in situation ethics which many people don’t*.
This can be alleviated by a more complete and sensible system which reward players according to their accomplishment.
To complicate this situation even more, active but non-contributing players are left unpunished which raised the question of the validity of this situation ethics. Why only afk players are discriminated against?

After reading my arguments, hopefully it will shred some light of how big the problem actually is, and not to quickly judge and discriminate against a single group.

*An example of situation ethic is “taking a human life is unacceptable but abortion due to inability to raise the child is acceptable.” See how controversial it is.

I dare say this whole mess has nothing to do with situation(al) ethics at all. Let’s leave god out of it please.

Sorry, but no one said anything about god. Ethics are a cumulative consideration of what is right and proper.

Situation Ethics or Situational Ethics are both correct terms.
While the origin of this system is related to how to interpret god’s doctrine, modern use is a system of ethics by which acts are judged within their contexts instead of by categorical principles (definition according to Merriam-Webster Dictionary).
This has everything to do with situation ethics because afking is acceptable in one instance and not acceptable in another.

Cyvien.8049:

This has everything to do with situation ethics because afking is acceptable in one instance and not acceptable in another.

This is correct. AFKing in some situations is ok, as it doesn’t impact events (i.e. AFKing in a town hub). AFKing during an event that offers massive rewards is not ok, and can result in kicks by GMs. Multiple kicks = 72 hour suspension.