Guild Wars 2

I have to ask – why people who do nothing but mindlessly zerging and farming bags getting rewards AND loot, but people who spending all their time saving civilians for 1200+ count gets nothing for their job?
We need some form of requirements to be eligible for reward, like get 7+ NPC revived/encouraged per event stage. No revives – no reward.

Psst! I’ll tell you a secret: I get more bags running a rescue party than I did from the events. Significantly more.

If I want Champion bags, I can go do something else for 30 min.

Garambola.2461:

Psst! I’ll tell you a secret: I get more bags running a rescue party than I did from the events. Significantly more.

If I want Champion bags, I can go do something else for 30 min.

Then you was in some kind of very strange rescue party (killing mobs instead of reviving, killing is really unnecessary in most situations and usually just slows you down) or you very bad at tagging mobs in zerg. Zergling with high magic find can easily get 150+ bags per hour AND all rewards from civilian save counter.

farming bags can get you several things: -

- gives you enough Blade Shards to craft you ascended backpiece
- gives you Found Belonging to buy Tomes of Knowledge to lvl up more (an alt or your player in WvW) or to buy things from the vendors like the Ascended Blade Recipe
- gives you a chance to get the endless quaggen tonics and mini
- gives you those found child drawings that you can use to raise your luck
- low chance to give you heirlooms for the getting the potions

rescuing civilians can also get you a few things:-

- better loot if you save 1,200 (chance to get old rewards) rng change for old rewards (not likely to happen)
- more heirlooms
- a lot more bags of loot if you’re going out of your way to rescue them (50+ -100+ more bags)

Rednik.3809:

Zergling with high magic find can easily get 150+ bags per hour AND all rewards from civilian save counter.

AND……… that right there is the problem, in a nutshell. This whole event is a leechers paradise. No matter how you slice it, we’re all leechers. Those whom AFK get rewarded by rescuer’s as equally as bag farmers get rewarded. This whole LA event has become a complete mess real quick.

Event’s like this need tokens to earn, period. No mixed signals, no multiple objectives, no RNG, none of it works well for building a community.

For which bags are best, I just opened 153 Alliance bags and it had the equivalent of 50-60s. They really aren’t worth that much for gold.

Rednik.3809:

Then you was in some kind of very strange rescue party (killing mobs instead of reviving, killing is really unnecessary in most situations and usually just slows you down)

Not really. You need to keep areas with the portals or whispers agents clear or all the civilians will die anyway. I think a lot of people don’t realize this and just resurrect/encourage and forget. The mobs repop really fast too. The western ward area is a paradise for bags and civilians to rescue. Just run between the beach and the Undermarket.

Of course, if there’s a ton of people, then the mobs can’t repop fast enough, but then you just go somewhere else. There’s several area like this. The Eastern Ward has the troll areas with civilians to save and several events pop there too for your bag needs. Also, the Crow’s Nest and Coriolis Plaza are good places too, but that one’s not as good for mobs. Still needs to be kept clear for civilians to run through though.

I’m sure there’s others, but those are the ones I go between. For the most part, I think the zerg is ok. If there’s some people keeping watch at key civilian locations then it doesn’t matter.

Panda Sheppard is correct. The citizens need the protection too or they’ll just go down again. Thye need to get out of the city, just ressing/encouraging does not count.

Rednik is probably also correct. I must be a bad farmer. 150 bags an hour? G’grief.

Farmers are needed too, so i have no problems with them farming the event. Everyone should decide how they want to play and Anet made the event so you can do both.

DeWolfe.2174:

Rednik.3809:

Zergling with high magic find can easily get 150+ bags per hour AND all rewards from civilian save counter.

AND……… that right there is the problem, in a nutshell. This whole event is a leechers paradise. No matter how you slice it, we’re all leechers. Those whom AFK get rewarded by rescuer’s as equally as bag farmers get rewarded. This whole LA event has become a complete mess real quick.

Event’s like this need tokens to earn, period. No mixed signals, no multiple objectives, no RNG, none of it works well for building a community.

For which bags are best, I just opened 153 Alliance bags and it had the equivalent of 50-60s. They really aren’t worth that much for gold.

Most people don’t do it for the gold, they do it for the blade shards and the found belongings. Blade shards are needed for the backpiece and belongings can be used to buy several things like the gift of blades recipe, obsidian shards and the level up tome.
Bags also drop drawings that give luck and may drop mini magnus or an endless tonic.

Furthermore, the mobs still randomly drop equipment and the events give money, experience and karma. Let’s not forget that you can get champion bags as well and that you don’t miss out on the citizen rescue bags that some other people worked for.

If people start focusing on rescuing, they might get 2 extra bags with the last one having a CHANCE to give them something good. Why would they give up all of the above for that chance, especially when it’s not even guaranteed that the 1200 requirement will be met?

In addition the fact that some people want heirlooms for the potions and that achievements promote zerging makes getting 1200 even harder.

u don’t need to farm to get blade shards, i’ve done both the zerging and ran a rescue party, did the event maybe 6-7 times and I have bout 1500 blade shards.

Don’t really see why everyone can’t do a little of both and get the job done, really.

People zerging the events are also helping as each defend (or maybe escort) event that is successful also delivers 35 citizens, so that adds to the count.

Also, people want different things from the event. There’s nothing wrong with having options.

Garambola.2461:

Psst! I’ll tell you a secret: I get more bags running a rescue party than I did from the events. Significantly more.

If I want Champion bags, I can go do something else for 30 min.

If you’re not a level 80 and are looking for XP, as well as loot, then you are most certainly better off running with a zerg and farming the events.

Galowin.6089:

u don’t need to farm to get blade shards, i’ve done both the zerging and ran a rescue party, did the event maybe 6-7 times and I have bout 1500 blade shards.

Some people are casuals and have limited play time so they will need more days to get enough blade shards. There are also people who want to make multiple backpieces, it all adds up.

Then we also have other reasons why people might zerg as well as my previous post implies.

CrossedHorse.4261:

Don’t really see why everyone can’t do a little of both and get the job done, really.

People zerging the events are also helping as each defend (or maybe escort) event that is successful also delivers 35 citizens, so that adds to the count.

Also, people want different things from the event. There’s nothing wrong with having options.

They are helping but not enough. You see, most events can be done with five people but you usually have around 40 people running them. Also, the LA events scale in such a way that having more people makes them more difficult to complete.

The citizens are on a spawn timer, so between rescues you can kill a few mobs eg: I’ve been rescuing citizens around the former BLT building then while waiting for them to re-spawn attacking mobs in the traders way point (AOE skills help tag multiple mobs) then going back and rescuing the citizens again, ok I may not get as many bags as the zergs, but I’m able to get a fare number and contribute to the ultimate bag. There are numerous spots on the map where this can be done, some do require a small group to manage the numbers of mobs. All that is required is a few moments at the start to organise and the goals are easily achieved. Equally those searching for rubble piles can rescue citizens as they pass through.
So far I’ve accumulated approx 20-25g plus two blue prints and crafted one back pack and sold 4 or 5 blue print sets on the TP not to mention a lot of crafting materials about seven stacks of shards and about 4 stacks of belongings, one endless black Quaggon tonic several rares one exotic a couple of recipes (one exotic and one ascended), greens that have been sold on TP or merched and blues that have been salvaged. The only achievement that I still require is triple threat

Ganathar.4956:

CrossedHorse.4261:

Don’t really see why everyone can’t do a little of both and get the job done, really.

People zerging the events are also helping as each defend (or maybe escort) event that is successful also delivers 35 citizens, so that adds to the count.

Also, people want different things from the event. There’s nothing wrong with having options.

They are helping but not enough. You see, most events can be done with five people but you usually have around 40 people running them. Also, the LA events scale in such a way that having more people makes them more difficult to complete.

I realise that, but every little helps. They are, at least, contributing in some way.

But, as I said, people are there for very different reasons, and some may be on limited time but want to farm a specific item for something etc. Some may indeed just want to run with a zerg.

There’s no reason why in between events they can’t break off and rescue some civilians etc (I do myself), but there’s equally no reason why they should have to.

Is someone who participates in only one really defense leeching off of someone who participates in every rally defense? They both get the Triple Play achievement. Same goes for Triple Threat.

What I see here and in LA mapchat isn’t a discussion about cooperating to achieve multiple objectives. It is a discussion about the primacy of someones favorite objective. Remove the Ultimate Civilian Bag, or even just remove the past LW rewards and very few people would focus on saving civilians.

The LA map is filled with overlapping objectives. To achieve as many of those objectives as possible, we must depend on others. Except for the players afking of course. Kitten them.

When you just need 100 civilians to reach 1200 and zergers absolutely refuse to help, I think it’s fair to get a little mad.

The event could be fun if rewards were better designed. This has been a problem with GW 2 (perhaps MMOs as a whole) for quite some time. The rewards get in the way of the content and sometimes become the content. I was in Hooligan’s Route with a small party rescuing civilians and noticed several players were just running by. I took a good look around the cavern and soon found my answer. There is a rubble pile needed for an achievement (one I haven’t bothered with) that they run to instead of helping with civilian rescues. This was made worse by the fact that the cavern is filled with elites and veterans, and every time they ran by they would train the mobs on us just to get their precious achievement points. We wiped once due to this inconsiderate game play.

Kitten those players and kitten Arena Net for introducing achievements that actively encourages game play that hinders playing the encounter.

aspirine.6852:

Farmers are needed too, so i have no problems with them farming the event. Everyone should decide how they want to play and Anet made the event so you can do both.

They are absolutely contributory to one another… I say this as a heavy civilian seeker (I’ve done both – framerate drag in the huge invasion events makes me wanna puke, so I went civilian).

As long as we (the instance) do BOTH sets of tasks, we’re fine. Everyone breathe.

SirMoogie.9263:

The event could be fun if rewards were better designed. This has been a problem with GW 2 (perhaps MMOs as a whole) for quite some time. The rewards get in the way of the content and sometimes become the content. I was in Hooligan’s Route with a small party rescuing civilians and noticed several players were just running by. I took a good look around the cavern and soon found my answer. There is a rubble pile needed for an achievement (one I haven’t bothered with) that they run to instead of helping with civilian rescues. This was made worse by the fact that the cavern is filled with elites and veterans, and every time they ran by they would train the mobs on us just to get their precious achievement points. We wiped once due to this inconsiderate game play.

Kitten those players and kitten Arena Net for introducing achievements that actively encourages game play that hinders playing the encounter.

In a mmorpg, balancing group and individual reward objectives will always be challenging. I agree with you that the heirloom reward objective is out of balance.

When i was first introduced to the event, i thought it was nothing but zerg fest.

Until i happened to get into MEDx overflow and citizens rescue mission is kicking on high gear, for once i felt the map is actually safe to travel around.

No zerg, no ‘mindless’ farmers, everyone doing their part to complete the event.
There were a BALANCE in responsibilities.
Citizens were saved in every hot spots, rally points defended, and knowing other players will always have your back when you’re downed doing the heroic rescues.

It was absolutely a beautiful sight to see.

We have no rights to critic what the farmers do.
Loots and golds rule above all. I tend to call these players the ‘materialists’.
That is the way they wanna roll in this event.
Just leave them be in their ‘Press F to Loot’ paradise.

Call me lack of sportsmanship or selfish.
When i find myself in a zerg fest OF, i’ll just grab a few of the nearby heirlooms and leave, minding my own stuff while waiting for the next reset.

I find no reason to fight alongside mindless zergs.
I find no motivation to give it my all for leechers.

I highly doubt Anet will/can change the reward system in any way.
So learn to deal with it.

If you’re the generous who embrace leechers, i give you my utmost respect.
If you’re like me who despise leechers, don’t feed what the leechers don’t deserve.

It would be hypocritical for me to complain about the zerg mentality, since I have often said “play how you want to play,” and I myself play how I want to play. Personally, I get far more satisfaction in saving the citizens, even if I am the only one doing it in the spot I choose to do it in. I find certain areas far more challenging that doing any of the zerg content. The dance I perform while dodging lasers and fighting veterans (and occasionally elites) solo might be enough to get me a spot on “So You Think You Can Dance.”

Play how you want to play. Just don’t complain afterwards when only 300 citizens were saved.

I usually hang out around the traders forum now, use to run civis but after a while of doing it by yourself it gets annoying quick. I farm the dolyaks, children escort and hub defense for bags and karma, im working on my second incinerator which i only have 296 cof dungeon tokens and 74 obsidian shards to go. I get on average 200+ bags and 5k+karma an hour without a group. During the down time between event spawns, ill run into the TP and save the Civilian in there.

All in all, you could say im a farmer and a Civilian rescuer. I get my loot and save about 75+ civis in the hour.

Ganathar.4956:

Galowin.6089:

u don’t need to farm to get blade shards, i’ve done both the zerging and ran a rescue party, did the event maybe 6-7 times and I have bout 1500 blade shards.

Some people are casuals and have limited play time so they will need more days to get enough blade shards. There are also people who want to make multiple backpieces, it all adds up.

Then we also have other reasons why people might zerg as well as my previous post implies.

I’ve played for a whopping total of 2hours since the event came out and already have all the blade shards i’ll need for the Ascended version of the item and I don’t stick with the zerg in the slightest, if too many people show up to an event (champions and elites are only types of mobs) i just leave and continue rescuing Citizens, so your argument is a load of kitten…

Durzlla.6295:

Ganathar.4956:

Galowin.6089:

u don’t need to farm to get blade shards, i’ve done both the zerging and ran a rescue party, did the event maybe 6-7 times and I have bout 1500 blade shards.

Some people are casuals and have limited play time so they will need more days to get enough blade shards. There are also people who want to make multiple backpieces, it all adds up.

Then we also have other reasons why people might zerg as well as my previous post implies.

I’ve played for a whopping total of 2hours since the event came out and already have all the blade shards i’ll need for the Ascended version of the item and I don’t stick with the zerg in the slightest, if too many people show up to an event (champions and elites are only types of mobs) i just leave and continue rescuing Citizens, so your argument is a load of kitten…

^^^^^ this, alot of people don’t seem to realise this at all. It’s very annoying.

I often post asking for civ rescue teams, more times than not I’m ignored, other times I get replies like “I’ll do what I want” .. “YOU go rescue civ’s” … and the very odd time, I get a team to work with.

I also find that people enter overflow and assume it’s impossible for an overflow to complete it. However I’m only ever in overflow and I’ve seen it completed multiple times.

Running a zerg in L.A. upscales events so far that rewards become minimized. Enemies hit too hard and die too fast, becoming a rampant waste of time.

I tend to get about 25% more loot when running with small groups, with the added advantage of leaving without a single piece of damaged armor. And rescuing more citizens on top of that? Heck, yes. When I see a zerg, I run the other direction.

Taygus.4571:

Durzlla.6295:

Ganathar.4956:

Galowin.6089:

u don’t need to farm to get blade shards, i’ve done both the zerging and ran a rescue party, did the event maybe 6-7 times and I have bout 1500 blade shards.

Some people are casuals and have limited play time so they will need more days to get enough blade shards. There are also people who want to make multiple backpieces, it all adds up.

Then we also have other reasons why people might zerg as well as my previous post implies.

I’ve played for a whopping total of 2hours since the event came out and already have all the blade shards i’ll need for the Ascended version of the item and I don’t stick with the zerg in the slightest, if too many people show up to an event (champions and elites are only types of mobs) i just leave and continue rescuing Citizens, so your argument is a load of kitten…

^^^^^ this, alot of people don’t seem to realise this at all. It’s very annoying.

I often post asking for civ rescue teams, more times than not I’m ignored, other times I get replies like “I’ll do what I want” .. “YOU go rescue civ’s” … and the very odd time, I get a team to work with.

I also find that people enter overflow and assume it’s impossible for an overflow to complete it. However I’m only ever in overflow and I’ve seen it completed multiple times.

I’ve seen similar messages while running around rescuing civilians (usually with a group of 4-6 other random players). I never answer them… too busy looking for civvies for one; and secondarily – already in a little zerglet, so why would I answer? That might be contributing to your lack of responses.

tactical question on civvies, though:
I do find myself running in BEHIND a zerg (couple minutes or so after) OR running where there’s NOT a “battle” icon… The latter works well, of course; but is the former less than optimal? Should I just stay in non-battle areas?

Taygus.4571:

Durzlla.6295:

Ganathar.4956:

Galowin.6089:

u don’t need to farm to get blade shards, i’ve done both the zerging and ran a rescue party, did the event maybe 6-7 times and I have bout 1500 blade shards.

Some people are casuals and have limited play time so they will need more days to get enough blade shards. There are also people who want to make multiple backpieces, it all adds up.

Then we also have other reasons why people might zerg as well as my previous post implies.

I’ve played for a whopping total of 2hours since the event came out and already have all the blade shards i’ll need for the Ascended version of the item and I don’t stick with the zerg in the slightest, if too many people show up to an event (champions and elites are only types of mobs) i just leave and continue rescuing Citizens, so your argument is a load of kitten…

^^^^^ this, alot of people don’t seem to realise this at all. It’s very annoying.

I often post asking for civ rescue teams, more times than not I’m ignored, other times I get replies like “I’ll do what I want” .. “YOU go rescue civ’s” … and the very odd time, I get a team to work with.

I also find that people enter overflow and assume it’s impossible for an overflow to complete it. However I’m only ever in overflow and I’ve seen it completed multiple times.

As long as it’s not plain empty (I’ve had that once), I prefer overflows re:lag.

You get a decent amount of bags rescuing civilians since you often need to kill them to get the civs to safety. I actually dislike joining the zerg for events since they usually upscale the mobs there and pack it full of annoying Elites (I’m looking at you, Molten Protectors!) that take forever to kill. The few Champs that spawn as a result of the upscaling isn’t worth the hassle.

Gulesave.5073:

Running a zerg in L.A. upscales events so far that rewards become minimized. Enemies hit too hard and die too fast, becoming a rampant waste of time.

I tend to get about 25% more loot when running with small groups, with the added advantage of leaving without a single piece of damaged armor. And rescuing more citizens on top of that? Heck, yes. When I see a zerg, I run the other direction.

That’s what I usually do. I come in from Gendarran and I immediately warp to Postern Ward and do my rounds there. I normally run solo, looking for citizens in the ogre cave, by the waterfall area and to the west of the waypoint down in the water which seems to hold a good number of civilians to rescue.

While doing that I’ll participate in an event or two, like escorting the ogres, defending the guards there and escorting the moas, but mainly my time is spent rescuing and being dumb in the chat. The reason I run solo is I know where I usually go, I just don’t do it in order and am pretty random about where I start. When I’m with another player I worry if I’m just randomly leading them around like a jerk.

insaneshadow.1654:

Gulesave.5073:

Running a zerg in L.A. upscales events so far that rewards become minimized. Enemies hit too hard and die too fast, becoming a rampant waste of time.

I tend to get about 25% more loot when running with small groups, with the added advantage of leaving without a single piece of damaged armor. And rescuing more citizens on top of that? Heck, yes. When I see a zerg, I run the other direction.

That’s what I usually do. I come in from Gendarran and I immediately warp to Postern Ward and do my rounds there. I normally run solo, looking for citizens in the ogre cave, by the waterfall area and to the west of the waypoint down in the water which seems to hold a good number of civilians to rescue.

While doing that I’ll participate in an event or two, like escorting the ogres, defending the guards there and escorting the moas, but mainly my time is spent rescuing and being dumb in the chat. The reason I run solo is I know where I usually go, I just don’t do it in order and am pretty random about where I start. When I’m with another player I worry if I’m just randomly leading them around like a jerk.

hahaha! You are exactly the type of player I keep my eye out for so I can attach myself to them like some creepy personal guard.

I feel like I’m doing a good deed being a good silent back up gal, lolol.

Don’t look at me like that /eye twitches
I know I’m insane

KarateKid.5648:

Taygus.4571:

Durzlla.6295:

Ganathar.4956:

Galowin.6089:

u don’t need to farm to get blade shards, i’ve done both the zerging and ran a rescue party, did the event maybe 6-7 times and I have bout 1500 blade shards.

Some people are casuals and have limited play time so they will need more days to get enough blade shards. There are also people who want to make multiple backpieces, it all adds up.

Then we also have other reasons why people might zerg as well as my previous post implies.

I’ve played for a whopping total of 2hours since the event came out and already have all the blade shards i’ll need for the Ascended version of the item and I don’t stick with the zerg in the slightest, if too many people show up to an event (champions and elites are only types of mobs) i just leave and continue rescuing Citizens, so your argument is a load of kitten…

^^^^^ this, alot of people don’t seem to realise this at all. It’s very annoying.

I often post asking for civ rescue teams, more times than not I’m ignored, other times I get replies like “I’ll do what I want” .. “YOU go rescue civ’s” … and the very odd time, I get a team to work with.

I also find that people enter overflow and assume it’s impossible for an overflow to complete it. However I’m only ever in overflow and I’ve seen it completed multiple times.

I’ve seen similar messages while running around rescuing civilians (usually with a group of 4-6 other random players). I never answer them… too busy looking for civvies for one; and secondarily – already in a little zerglet, so why would I answer? That might be contributing to your lack of responses.

Might be, but you do realise parties are necessary for the likes of hooligans cavern and then down by the beach there? and around the vista?

IT’s much quicker if people work in parties and try to organise things via map chat.

The times I’ve seen 1200 saved, there was constant map chat “need people for civs @ [here]” and people worked in teams.

I often find myself joining a group of random people without partying.. but generally partying makes it easier.

And if everyones in parties, you can organise via map chat for groups to go to areas where there aren’t anyone.

Which works a little better than just saying “here needs” and everyone goes there.
With the party way, someone says “here needs” and you go my party will be there. So other groups can focus on other areas.

Its just quicker/easier/higher chance of success

Last night on Dragonbrand was an example of how this SHOULD be run. Like lightning, I only saw it strike once

About 5 minutes in, we were dropped into an overflow (some dc’s, some late entries, etc).

No one called out any “plan”, but it just morphed into 1-3 zergs running large events + maybe a half-dozen smaller romaing parties looking for civvies.

The saviors seemed (at least the three groups I saw) to run back and forth within a region, and if we bumped into each other, we’d turna around and patrol back. Our little zerglet would jump into the fray with any champ/invasion event we ran into, but we’d peel off as soon as numbers were manageable – back to civvies.

I dunno how the zergs “patrolled”, if at all.

Occasionally, I’d see someone from the zergs calling “move to molten” and the like, and someone on the civvie side kept calling rescue countdown (yes, I know it’s on screen, but this seemed to keep us focused).

Through no fault of our own, numerous invasions got reversed (I think 3?), but we also maxed out the rescue count.

Stacks o’ blue ziplocks, 3 champ bags (from running into the zergs), one huge box o’ baggies, and some random molten champ box the origin of which I have no clue were the rewards. Not to mention about a dozen or so of RNG blues/greens and two exotic trash pieces.

That was the absolute most fun this event has been for me yet – in an OVERFLOW, of all things.

hmm it seems pretty easy for me to decide what to do

Every event gives about 300 +- 25 bags (staff guardian) + everything else that drops

Rescuing 1200 citizens give you a small chance of actually getting something good, of which every ultimate bag i’v gotten by now was absolute kitten (around 10 ultimate bags so far give or take)

The ultimate bag has the potential for amazing loot, but the chances are slim. The regular bags and champ bags have consistently decent loot but nothing amazing. The ultimate bag is incredibly boring to obtain(yay 45mins of securing escape routes for NPC’s) where normal bags and champ bags aren’t as bad.

The question becomes whether you want consistent loot or the chance at amazing loot and being bored while doing it? Personally I have more fun taking on the large groups of enemies and getting the consistent loot. Every ultimate bag I’ve gotten has been worthless. A mushroom recipe worth 25s is not worth 45mins of killing the same handful of mobs over and over again.

Does the ultimate bag even drop anything amazing? I’ve hear it’s supposed to but no one I know has gotten anything great.