Guild Wars 2

Heh. I definitely called this into turning into another P2W thread. Just wait until people find out about the new scavenging tools coming out soon…

First off all,
Mark is right. This is in my opinion a minor thing cause from the central hub you can easily travel to any of the city’s to craft (and visit a laurel vendor).

However. it is a tiny little small move to p2w and given his confusion at the start it seems that this has not fully thought out and discussed out in Anet’s HQ. So although those things are not commented on while on the tafel, I do hope that Mark or anyone else has rattled this discussion up at Anet.

Maybe to help with that internal discussion. The airship has a loadingscreen to enter. So maybe compromise and put the crafting stations at the other two refugee camps in lortnarpass and bloodtide coast. The airship will bring people there with as well one loading screen and the problem is solved imo.

Anet become SOOOO greedy with the cash shop, that’s seriously start to be worse than in the worse F2P..

SELL :

• storage room,
• inventory room,
• 250 material stack increase ( 800 each O M G )
• Reset stat point where you want
• Access to a place like the air ship AND do publicity with the one time ticket during the event…

that’s… :/ not mentioning the outrageous price oO

And see, they are sooo generous ! they offer us one xp + craft boost and a resurect… whaaaaoooo

New harvesting sickle. Probably has chance to scavenge heirlooms.

http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/1yafuk/data_mining_upcoming_features_and_chat_codes_from/

Last bit about heirlooms was just speculation.

Liston.9708:

Technical/time issue I would but that. That wasn’t anet’s response was it?

No. And it hardly is. Because of the way the community responds. Look at precursor crafting, the slaying potions bug, or any other time there is some sort of transparency. When it doesn’t happen fast enough or the forums arent kept constantly in the loop, then they just attack the devs.

What if Mark came in and said “yeah, there was an issue with the size of the zone and number of NPCs and what player cap would be and we just hit a technical wall. We are working on getting crafting vendors in”, and then it didn’t happen? People would be throwing it in Anet’s face any time any little thing comes, indefinitely. And no one wants to deal with that type of abuse, non-stop, in their work place.

This isn’t unique to Anet. In game dev in general it’s better to stay quiet and manage expectations than it is to communicate intentions and then not be able deliver.

Once again, not saying that this was the case. But it is most definitely within the realm of possibility. Especially considering Mark was under the impression the crafters were there. If it were a big gem conspiracy I’d imagine he wouldn’t have been under that impression and just would not have said anything rather than come in here and be wrong. That smells to me like a last minute change and oversight.

AcidicVision.5498:

People have been leaving in droves since karma changes, and BLTC unique skins, and since WvW orb hacking, and since Fractals, and since ascended, and since their favorite class got nerfed, and since every other significant or insignificant change that has happened since launch.

Let me share a secret with you, 9/10 people that say they are quitting over something like this, on the scale of temporarily adding hopping through a waypoint to their town activities, you could add to your friends list and see them playing happily playing as usual.

That is why “game is dying, everyone is leaving!” hyperbole never gets a response and why it just gets laughed off. Anet actually has the numbers. You and I can actively watch the “quitters” mosey along in the game. NCSoft earnings report published that GW2 is making money. More than projected for this last quarter if I recall.

Most of the people that actually quit over these things likely do so silently. Those that are vocal are the ones that care enough to want to see things improve, and are more likely to stick around for the aspects of the game they do like.

For me, each decision like this just tips the scale farther in the direction of the bad outweighing the good. I’m not going to quit over this. I already spend a large portion of my time logged in simply for social aspects/chatting. I probably would have quit long ago if I didn’t have several longtime friends that play. So yeah, I’ll keep playing or at least logging in, but my desire to actually do anything in this game goes down another notch.

After a couple rounds of this LA assault, I’ve seen all there is to see if the new content. So I really don’t understand all the praise for giving us so much new content. The content they released a month ago is already gone, and this one will be gone shortly too. It’s nice to have some new stuff added, but it’s usually just a little bit of content with achievements designed to have you repeat that content. The living story isn’t a bad thing, it’s actually a good concept. But I don’t think it holds up well enough to be the only new content. Especially not if they see monetizing previously free services/conveniences as part of the business model to support it. I’d rather see a $40-60 expansion.

Just ask yourself one simple question. If a friend that quit 6-8 months ago asked you what was new since they left, how much would you have to tell them about? Keep in mind that most of the content you’ve seen over that time, is now gone and they will never see it.

AcidicVision.5498:

People have been leaving in droves since karma changes, and BLTC unique skins, and since WvW orb hacking, and since Fractals, and since ascended, and since their favorite class got nerfed, and since every other significant or insignificant change that has happened since launch.

Let me share a secret with you, 9/10 people that say they are quitting over something like this, on the scale of temporarily adding hopping through a waypoint to their town activities, you could add to your friends list and see them playing happily playing as usual.

That is why “game is dying, everyone is leaving!” hyperbole never gets a response and why it just gets laughed off. Anet actually has the numbers. You and I can actively watch the “quitters” mosey along in the game. NCSoft earnings report published that GW2 is making money. More than projected for this last quarter if I recall.

The game isn’t going to wither away because people have to hop through an Asura gate to do some crafting, and then hop back over to MF when they are done, until a new hub city is raised. These are people have every right to share their opinion, but is making a mountain of a mole hill and catastrophizing.

All of the controversy will mostly die down when people get used to having to move between MF and crafting and the rest will go away when a new hub comes around. Or when they realize they spent more time complaining on the forums than a they would have spent in a year of going between gates to get to craft-stations.

You’re absolutely right in that very few people will quit over this change specifically. The problem with your argument here is that you’re overlooking one simple fact and that is that everything adds up. For every bad move ArenaNet makes they diminish the value of their brand and few things are as precious in this business as your brand. Once a brand loses its desirability it’s all over.

People still remember the ascended debacle and all those poor balacing decisions. Sure, the initial kittenstorms might have subsided but it’s still all there on the record. This too now.

Liston.9708:

We all know we can go elsewhere to craft, the point is – why should we have to now when we didn’t before? Some say la was the worst place to craft -well what if you socialized with everyone else whilst crafting? I can go to the racial cities, but a pile of npcs are not very entertaining…..

It is clearly an issue with many of us…… Btw, I buy all kinds of stuff with gems with real $$, so I don’t mind supporting the game, but this was a slime move so less gem sales to 1 person anyway….

It’s so slimy that everything is still free, still available and still easy to get to. This game has waypoints lol!

Why go to a new place when you didn’t have to before? Uh, because there is a war. Would it really make sense to keep all crafting and vendors available in the middle of a war zone? C’mon people, there are actual issues with the game, stop trying to make issues up.

Fungalfoot.7213:

People still remember the ascended debacle and all those poor balacing decisions. Sure, the initial kittenstorms might have subsided but it’s still all there on the record. This too now.

That was one of the biggest strikes against the game for me. The airship pass/services issue is minor in comparison, but it’s still something that won’t be forgotten and will push our opinions further onto the negative side.

laharl.8435:

Why go to a new place when you didn’t have to before? Uh, because there is a war. Would it really make sense to keep all crafting and vendors available in the middle of a war zone? C’mon people, there are actual issues with the game, stop trying to make issues up.

So, you’re saying it makes no sense to have them in an airship above the refugee area? Because those services are still there in that airship, you just have to pay to access them.

It would make sense if they were just simply gone. But that is not what happened.

The whole idea of that airship is a bit absurd. That should be a valuable part of the effort to retake LA, not a mobile village market full of merchants and craftsmen.

Where was he keeping that thing anyway? I don’t see a ship flying out of LA during a massive air assault being very believable.

The level of rhetoric, as always, has reached unhealthy levels. Both sides are “at fault” in this discussion as far as I can tell.

Players

• Complain that LA is too full and laggy
• Asked for the LS to make permanent changes to the world
• ANet goes for the gold and bombs LA forcing players to spread out to the other capitals or locations
• Players unhappy with a paradigm shift blame it on a perceived cash grab

ANet

• Stated publicly that all LA services could be found at Vigil Keep temporarily
• Crafting locations did not make it to the Keep due to oversight, logistical, or technical reasons

Two sayings immediately spring to mind: “When you see hoof prints, look for horses, not zebras” and “Never attribute to malice that which is easily explained by carelessness or stupidity”

The most reasonable scenario, as far as I can see with the facts I have, is that acting on player demand that the LS have a greater impact, LA was destroyed. Knowing full well that people depend on LA to stand in front of the bank and show off… I mean have convenient access to services, ANet relocates many of those services to Vigil Keep. In the process, crafting locations are overlooked as bringing up Asura gates to cities, WvW, and Fractals likely took a higher priority.

Remedy

• Players take a chill pill and put the tin foil away
• ANet makes a public statement explaining why it didn’t happen and puts crafting locations near the Keep even if it is not done in the sexiest or most “plot friendly” way

Everyone wins and we can focus on more interesting and important things

AcidicVision.5498:

Once again, not saying that this was the case. But it is most definitely within the realm of possibility. Especially considering Mark was under the impression the crafters were there. If it were a big gem conspiracy I’d imagine he wouldn’t have been under that impression and just would not have said anything rather than come in here and be wrong. That smells to me like a last minute change and oversight.

It reminds me (not in a positive way) of Verant (“the quest isn’t broken”) during the first couple years of EverQuest. Where the nice people on the servers could see something wasn’t working right and filed reports of something going wrong but the forum moderators/responders weren’t aware of it. Or vice versa.

digitalruse.9085:

Two sayings immediately spring to mind: “When you see hoof prints, look for horses, not zebras” and “Never attribute to malice that which is easily explained by carelessness or stupidity”

The most reasonable scenario, as far as I can see with the facts I have, is that acting on player demand that the LS have a greater impact, LA was destroyed. Knowing full well that people depend on LA to stand in front of the bank and show off… I mean have convenient access to services, ANet relocates many of those services to Vigil Keep. In the process, crafting locations are overlooked as bringing up Asura gates to cities, WvW, and Fractals likely took a higher priority.

I would find that to be a reasonable explanation, if they hadn’t remembered put all of those services into that airship. There are quite a few much less important NPCs/services that made it into that camp, as well.

mrstealth.6701:

laharl.8435:

Why go to a new place when you didn’t have to before? Uh, because there is a war. Would it really make sense to keep all crafting and vendors available in the middle of a war zone? C’mon people, there are actual issues with the game, stop trying to make issues up.

So, you’re saying it makes no sense to have them in an airship above the refugee area? Because those services are still there in that airship, you just have to pay to access them.

It would make sense if they were just simply gone. But that is not what happened.

The whole idea of that airship is a bit absurd. That should be a valuable part of the effort to retake LA, not a mobile village market full of merchants and craftsmen.

Where was he keeping that thing anyway? I don’t see a ship flying out of LA during a massive air assault being very believable.

Makes sense to me that vendors would relocate or that others would pop up to meet demand considering how logical that is and that’s what happens in real life.

mrstealth.6701:

I would find that to be a reasonable explanation, if they hadn’t remembered put all of those services into that airship. There are quite a few much less important NPCs/services that made it into that camp, as well.

By they you are assuming the same person worked on both? At this very moment I am working on a training simulation. I made a cable end spin as it connects. The person down the hall doing the same thing on another section of the vehicle didn’t make the end on his cable spin while connecting. There are dozens of these cables, like there are dozens of NPCs, and it would be very easy for something like that to slip all the way to acceptance testing.

I doubt living story updates have anything close to as rigorous as government acceptance testing. So it’s very very possible for one engineer on a time crunch to forget something that another might not. For all we know there could have been something that was supposed to be in the captains ship that slipped, but it goes un-noticed because we either didn’t expect it to begin with, or it’s visibility isn’t as high to players as crafting stations are.

As to questions about how I am chatting away on forums at work, see the attachment…

mrstealth.6701:

digitalruse.9085:

Two sayings immediately spring to mind: “When you see hoof prints, look for horses, not zebras” and “Never attribute to malice that which is easily explained by carelessness or stupidity”

The most reasonable scenario, as far as I can see with the facts I have, is that acting on player demand that the LS have a greater impact, LA was destroyed. Knowing full well that people depend on LA to stand in front of the bank and show off… I mean have convenient access to services, ANet relocates many of those services to Vigil Keep. In the process, crafting locations are overlooked as bringing up Asura gates to cities, WvW, and Fractals likely took a higher priority.

I would find that to be a reasonable explanation, if they hadn’t remembered put all of those services into that airship. There are quite a few much less important NPCs/services that made it into that camp, as well.

The problem is we just don’t know. A lack of facts cannot be filled with baseless theories. People are angry and looking for a villian when there likely is none. You have to work with what you got. Maybe the Vigil Keep team and the Airship team were different? Maybe the airship was originally going to be instanced and not part of GF but moved later due to development crunches?

I am not an ANet apologist, believe me. As someone whose IRL job is related to IT and customer service, communication is paramount. So, if there is anything to hold them to account to it is a lack of that. Which is ironic considering the lengths they are willing to go through for the CDI process. But, all this other conspiracy nonsense is unhelpful.

digitalruse.9085:

mrstealth.6701:

digitalruse.9085:

Two sayings immediately spring to mind: “When you see hoof prints, look for horses, not zebras” and “Never attribute to malice that which is easily explained by carelessness or stupidity”

The most reasonable scenario, as far as I can see with the facts I have, is that acting on player demand that the LS have a greater impact, LA was destroyed. Knowing full well that people depend on LA to stand in front of the bank and show off… I mean have convenient access to services, ANet relocates many of those services to Vigil Keep. In the process, crafting locations are overlooked as bringing up Asura gates to cities, WvW, and Fractals likely took a higher priority.

I would find that to be a reasonable explanation, if they hadn’t remembered put all of those services into that airship. There are quite a few much less important NPCs/services that made it into that camp, as well.

The problem is we just don’t know. A lack of facts cannot be filled with baseless theories. People are angry and looking for a villian when there likely is none. You have to work with what you got. Maybe the Vigil Keep team and the Airship team were different? Maybe the airship was originally going to be instanced and not part of GF but moved later due to development crunches?

I am not an ANet apologist, believe me. As someone whose IRL job is related to IT and customer service, communication is paramount. So, if there is anything to hold them to account to it is a lack of that. Which is ironic considering the lengths they are willing to go through for the CDI process. But, all this other conspiracy nonsense is unhelpful.

Not to mention there are crafter in many other places around the world all at the click of a button. People are acting like they have to pay to get something that is currently unavailable. All this stuff already exists and is not difficult nor expensive, by any means, to get to.

HyruleanHyroe.1473:

FenrirSlakt.3692:

I say, why not add crafting stations to the southern camp, so that people HAVE to walk to get there? That way people will still buy the Captain’s Pass to avoid that inconvenience.

I normally support ANET’s posture, but there’s no reason that there aren’t crafting stations in Vigil Keep. Aren’t they supposed to be a self-sufficient organization with the means to produce their own weapons, armor and such?
So, why not add crafting stations far away from the TP/Bank?

At least I can see this viewpoint. It’d be nice to have crafting stations along with the rest, yes. What I don’t understand is why, if you’re already WPing to a new location to access the rest, you can’t WP to one of the many other locations in the game where you can craft and still access other services? All five major cities, Ebonhawke, WvW, etc. Is there some attachment to the keep that I’m just not picking up on? It seems like the airship wouldn’t help with that even if it were free, since it’s not in Vigil Keep.

I’m not exactly complaining, as I’ve been doing almost everything I need in Rata Sum. However, some people, perhaps a majority have slower computers, so they might not be able and willing to wait for loadscreens to finish.

Also, everyone’s talking as if the problem was irreversible. All ANET has to do to fix this is to place the crafting stations somewhere in the map and that’s that. Otherwise, people will think that they deliberately avoided to add them, and I wouldn’t blame them for that, especially because this is one of the easiest issues to fix I’ve seen.

Besides, I meant something like this.

You can remove QoL features from the game. You can add QoL features to the game behind a paywall.

But when you take what’s currently a free QoL feature and put it behind a paywall, that’s really bad. And judging from Anet’s response (i.e., none) this is a sign of things to come.

And looking at how Anet creeps these out slowly, here’s likely what’s next:

• Any new map will have a paywall on its WPs. (White knights: “hey, you can just walk so it’s ok, right? Plus, I walk everywhere anyway, who needs WPs?”) Then:
• All WPs will be paywalled. (White knights: “hey, you can just walk so it’s ok, right? Plus, I walk everywhere anyway, who needs WPs?”)

Lord Kuru.3685:

You can remove QoL features from the game. You can add QoL features to the game behind a paywall.

But when you take what’s currently a free QoL feature and put it behind a paywall, that’s really bad. And judging from Anet’s response (i.e., none) this is a sign of things to come.

And looking at how Anet creeps these out slowly, here’s likely what’s next:

• Any new map will have a paywall on its WPs. (White knights: “hey, you can just walk so it’s ok, right? Plus, I walk everywhere anyway, who needs WPs?”) Then:
• All WPs will be paywalled. (White knights: “hey, you can just walk so it’s ok, right? Plus, I walk everywhere anyway, who needs WPs?”)

What did they take that was free and put behind a pay wall? Oh, nothing… lol

Lord Kuru.3685:

• Any new map will have a paywall on its WPs. (White knights: “hey, you can just walk so it’s ok, right? Plus, I walk everywhere anyway, who needs WPs?”) Then:
• All WPs will be paywalled. (White knights: “hey, you can just walk so it’s ok, right? Plus, I walk everywhere anyway, who needs WPs?”)

More likely a personal waypoint you can place anywhere with a 1 hour cooldown. Hotdrop into zones line Aetherblades do.

Anyways, waypoints already have a paywall, when the game launched everyone was furious. “2s to WP across the map!? Who has two silver! Anet just want us to buy gems to convert so we can travel around and play!”. That actually happened.

Is anyone out there having to buy gems in order to travel? Did all of that freaking out end up meaning anything? Nope. People are real quick to scream “cash-grab” and discount all other possibilities, and then sort of slink away quietly when their concerns end up being unfounded.

Lord Kuru.3685:

You can remove QoL features from the game. You can add QoL features to the game behind a paywall.

But when you take what’s currently a free QoL feature and put it behind a paywall, that’s really bad. And judging from Anet’s response (i.e., none) this is a sign of things to come.

And looking at how Anet creeps these out slowly, here’s likely what’s next:

• Any new map will have a paywall on its WPs. (White knights: “hey, you can just walk so it’s ok, right? Plus, I walk everywhere anyway, who needs WPs?”) Then:
• All WPs will be paywalled. (White knights: “hey, you can just walk so it’s ok, right? Plus, I walk everywhere anyway, who needs WPs?”)

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slippery_slope

They’re testing what little conveniences they can move and charge for at this point. Travel will probably be the next thing to mess with.

AcidicVision.5498:

mrstealth.6701:

I would find that to be a reasonable explanation, if they hadn’t remembered put all of those services into that airship. There are quite a few much less important NPCs/services that made it into that camp, as well.

By they you are assuming the same person worked on both? At this very moment I am working on a training simulation. I made a cable end spin as it connects. The person down the hall doing the same thing on another section of the vehicle didn’t make the end on his cable spin while connecting. There are dozens of these cables, like there are dozens of NPCs, and it would be very easy for something like that to slip all the way to acceptance testing.

I doubt living story updates have anything close to as rigorous as government acceptance testing. So it’s very very possible for one engineer on a time crunch to forget something that another might not. For all we know there could have been something that was supposed to be in the captains ship that slipped, but it goes un-noticed because we either didn’t expect it to begin with, or it’s visibility isn’t as high to players as crafting stations are.

As to questions about how I am chatting away on forums at work, see the attachment…

Whether or not this was planned will come out in their reaction and response to it. So far, we’ve heard nothing aside from one person correcting his previous claim that all services were present in Vigil Keep. There was no mention of that being unintentional, or that it was being looked into. If they keep silent, and nothing changes, then we can assume that those services were intended to only be in the airship.

In my opinion, if this was just an oversight, we should have at least some short statement about the issue by now.

Ayrilana.1396:

Lord Kuru.3685:

You can remove QoL features from the game. You can add QoL features to the game behind a paywall.

But when you take what’s currently a free QoL feature and put it behind a paywall, that’s really bad. And judging from Anet’s response (i.e., none) this is a sign of things to come.

And looking at how Anet creeps these out slowly, here’s likely what’s next:

• Any new map will have a paywall on its WPs. (White knights: “hey, you can just walk so it’s ok, right? Plus, I walk everywhere anyway, who needs WPs?”) Then:
• All WPs will be paywalled. (White knights: “hey, you can just walk so it’s ok, right? Plus, I walk everywhere anyway, who needs WPs?”)

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slippery_slope

He makes the same arguments in all these threads, about how it’s inevitable or “incredibly likely” they’ll maliciously coordinate to steal away our gunz. I mean, our shinies. I mean, our amenities.

Whether or not he proves to be right, the only reason to believe him is to believe ANet is out solely to squeeze money out of the players. Which, if that was the case, wouldn’t be quite as . . . incompetent.

mrstealth.6701:

In my opinion, if this was just an oversight, we should have at least some short statement about the issue by now.

If it was an oversight they can fix by putting them into Gendarran Fields, then that’ll be done and then announced.

If it can only be fixed by more rigorous fixes, you’ll probably see “oops, our bad” and it could be assumed fixing it would take enough time to work on it might be fixed partway into next week.

I’m kind of betting on the latter, unfortunately

digitalruse.9085:

• Stated publicly that all LA services could be found at Vigil Keep temporarily

They never said that though.
They said all ESSENTIAL LA services could be found there.
And the only essential LA services were MF, Dungeon-traders, Portals and Activity guy.

All of those are in the Vigil Keep, free for use by everyone.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

If it was an oversight they can fix by putting them into Gendarran Fields, then that’ll be done and then announced.

Or they could drop a one-liner in this thread/Twitter/Facebook saying “we’re working on getting more services into Vigil Keep”

I know they’ve done the same for other same-day fixes.

Had Anet simply added Mystic Forges to the other cities along with activities hubs (you know, the only things LA had that capitol cities don’t) there would have been no issue.

lordkrall.7241:

digitalruse.9085:

• Stated publicly that all LA services could be found at Vigil Keep temporarily

They never said that though.
They said all ESSENTIAL LA services could be found there.
And the only essential LA services were MF, Dungeon-traders, Portals and Activity guy.

All of those are in the Vigil Keep, free for use by everyone.

Read it again, you’re wrong. Page 1 of this very topic. Argue 1st worry if you’re right never seems to be how this forum operates.

Aidenwolf.5964:

Read it again, you’re wrong.

Please point me towards the place that says that EVERYTHING from Lion’s Arch would move to the Vigils Keep.

lordkrall.7241:

Aidenwolf.5964:

Read it again, you’re wrong.

Please point me towards the place that says that EVERYTHING from Lion’s Arch would move to the Vigils Keep.

Page 1 of this thread.

Right now you are complaining about having paywall behind crafting stations, Which are obviously in all 1-15 areas, racial cities, WvW Citadels and Ebonhawke. You say that Anet makes you pay to craft and dump stuff in Wonderful Mystic Toilet, well that’s a lie. You can get it with 1 loading screen. Anet never said that EVERYTHING from LA would go into Vigil Keep, here’s the quote form Massively article (the link in the end of the post)

“All essential services that are unique to Lion’s Arch will be redirected to Vigil Keep for the time being, including Asura gates to other cities, Fractals of the Mists, and incarcerated cactus-faced troublemakers.”

The only unique services to LA were, Mystic Toilet, Dungeon Vendors, FoTM, Racial city Asura gates, Southsun Asura gate, and that’s pretty much it. You can still get Crafting Station in 12 Maps: Racial cities and 1-15 areas (10) Ebonhawke (1) WvW Citadel (1 and its free to travel to). Now please, throw your QQ thread out of the window.

http://massively.joystiq.com/2014/02/11/prepare-to-escape-from-lions-arch-in-guild-wars-2s-next-conten/#

Aidenwolf.5964:

lordkrall.7241:

Aidenwolf.5964:

Read it again, you’re wrong.

Please point me towards the place that says that EVERYTHING from Lion’s Arch would move to the Vigils Keep.

Page 1 of this thread.

Actual release notes:

Vigil Keep, the Impromptu Hub of Services
Most of the services in Lion’s Arch have found a new home at the Vigil Keep in Gendarran Fields.
All home-city asura gates will now connect to a new gate plaza in the Vigil Keep.
All WvW and PvP asura gates have also been hastily erected to connect to the Vigil Keep.
The Black Lion Trading Post, Bank, and Guild services have moved to the Vigil Keep.
Dungeon reward vendors and cultural weapon vendors have moved to the Vigil Keep.
The powerful Zommoros, along with Miyani, have relocated near the new asura gates.
Sonder the Seller, Scornheart, and Poyaqui are also available.
Floating above is the captain’s airship, the Havoc’s Heir, a one-stop shop for all services.

Firstly, you can’t take the word of one Dev over an official release.

Secondly, ‘all services have been moved’ could and probably does refer to ‘all services that were to be moved have been moved.’ It’s ambiguous wording on the part of one Dev. Read the release and get over it.

Aidenwolf.5964:

lordkrall.7241:

Aidenwolf.5964:

Read it again, you’re wrong.

Please point me towards the place that says that EVERYTHING from Lion’s Arch would move to the Vigils Keep.

Page 1 of this thread.

Right here https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/livingworld/escape/Concerned-about-Captain-s-airship-passes/3656207
The misinformation post was corrected in a later post, though.

Aidenwolf.5964:

Page 1 of this thread.

Which were stated AFTER the release went live AND corrected by the very same person shortly after.

Nothing stated BEFORE release said anything at all about EVERYTHING from Lion’s Arch moving.

And the Patch notes says MOST not all as well.

HyruleanHyroe.1473:

Aidenwolf.5964:

lordkrall.7241:

Aidenwolf.5964:

Read it again, you’re wrong.

Please point me towards the place that says that EVERYTHING from Lion’s Arch would move to the Vigils Keep.

Page 1 of this thread.

Actual release notes:

Vigil Keep, the Impromptu Hub of Services
Most of the services in Lion’s Arch have found a new home at the Vigil Keep in Gendarran Fields.
All home-city asura gates will now connect to a new gate plaza in the Vigil Keep.
All WvW and PvP asura gates have also been hastily erected to connect to the Vigil Keep.
The Black Lion Trading Post, Bank, and Guild services have moved to the Vigil Keep.
Dungeon reward vendors and cultural weapon vendors have moved to the Vigil Keep.
The powerful Zommoros, along with Miyani, have relocated near the new asura gates.
Sonder the Seller, Scornheart, and Poyaqui are also available.
Floating above is the captain’s airship, the Havoc’s Heir, a one-stop shop for all services.

Firstly, you can’t take the word of one Dev over an official release.

Secondly, ‘all services have been moved’ could and probably does refer to ‘all services that were to be moved have been moved.’ It’s ambiguous wording on the part of one Dev. Read the release and get over it.

Bolded something to further show that they never said all services except for the one employee who was mistaken after the release had already occurred.

mrstealth.6701:

digitalruse.9085:

Two sayings immediately spring to mind: “When you see hoof prints, look for horses, not zebras” and “Never attribute to malice that which is easily explained by carelessness or stupidity”

The most reasonable scenario, as far as I can see with the facts I have, is that acting on player demand that the LS have a greater impact, LA was destroyed. Knowing full well that people depend on LA to stand in front of the bank and show off… I mean have convenient access to services, ANet relocates many of those services to Vigil Keep. In the process, crafting locations are overlooked as bringing up Asura gates to cities, WvW, and Fractals likely took a higher priority.

I would find that to be a reasonable explanation, if they hadn’t remembered put all of those services into that airship. There are quite a few much less important NPCs/services that made it into that camp, as well.

Spot on and its just 1 in an emerging line of things that show they are chipping away at whats acceptable. It shows I think that they need more funding for ongoing development.

Lord Kuru.3685:

You can remove QoL features from the game. You can add QoL features to the game behind a paywall.

But when you take what’s currently a free QoL feature and put it behind a paywall, that’s really bad. And judging from Anet’s response (i.e., none) this is a sign of things to come.

And looking at how Anet creeps these out slowly, here’s likely what’s next:

• Any new map will have a paywall on its WPs. (White knights: “hey, you can just walk so it’s ok, right? Plus, I walk everywhere anyway, who needs WPs?”) Then:
• All WPs will be paywalled. (White knights: “hey, you can just walk so it’s ok, right? Plus, I walk everywhere anyway, who needs WPs?”)

NOTHING IS BEHIND A PAYWALL. Was that clear enough for you now? Nothing.

laharl.8435:

Lord Kuru.3685:

You can remove QoL features from the game. You can add QoL features to the game behind a paywall.

But when you take what’s currently a free QoL feature and put it behind a paywall, that’s really bad. And judging from Anet’s response (i.e., none) this is a sign of things to come.

And looking at how Anet creeps these out slowly, here’s likely what’s next:

• Any new map will have a paywall on its WPs. (White knights: “hey, you can just walk so it’s ok, right? Plus, I walk everywhere anyway, who needs WPs?”) Then:
• All WPs will be paywalled. (White knights: “hey, you can just walk so it’s ok, right? Plus, I walk everywhere anyway, who needs WPs?”)

What did they take that was free and put behind a pay wall? Oh, nothing… lol

You’re not actually addressing the argument. As was said earlier in the thread almost every single poster criticising it is putting forth reasoned arguments as to why whereas those who don’t object to it offer nothing.

PookieDaWombat.6209:

NOTHING IS BEHIND A PAYWALL. Was that clear enough for you now? Nothing.

Sure something has been, and its been stated multiple times, convenience.

morrolan.9608:

laharl.8435:

Lord Kuru.3685:

You can remove QoL features from the game. You can add QoL features to the game behind a paywall.

But when you take what’s currently a free QoL feature and put it behind a paywall, that’s really bad. And judging from Anet’s response (i.e., none) this is a sign of things to come.

And looking at how Anet creeps these out slowly, here’s likely what’s next:

• Any new map will have a paywall on its WPs. (White knights: “hey, you can just walk so it’s ok, right? Plus, I walk everywhere anyway, who needs WPs?”) Then:
• All WPs will be paywalled. (White knights: “hey, you can just walk so it’s ok, right? Plus, I walk everywhere anyway, who needs WPs?”)

What did they take that was free and put behind a pay wall? Oh, nothing… lol

You’re not actually addressing the argument. As was said earlier in the thread almost every single poster criticising it is putting forth reasoned arguments as to why whereas those who don’t object to it offer nothing.

PookieDaWombat.6209:

NOTHING IS BEHIND A PAYWALL. Was that clear enough for you now? Nothing.

Sure something has been, and its been stated multiple times, convenience.

Yep. A lot of people seem happy to ask “Why do you NEED these services all in one place?” and demand evidence of it, but are incensed that others are asking “Why did Anet NEED to remove this convenience?”. If it was a deliberate move, I’m interested to know what player benefits it’s apparently brought us. Story relevance doesn’t count much when you can magically bypass the inconvenience of a major city’s destruction by getting out your RL wallet.

For those that have thrown in the idea of the “slippery slope”, mind the fact that this is actually the 2nd step, so we’re already on the “slope”. The Royal Terrace was the test to see if this type of pass would sell.

Now we’re at the next step down the line, of actually removing something and replacing it with a pay service.

mrstealth.6701:

For those that have thrown in the idea of the “slippery slope”, mind the fact that this is actually the 2nd step, so we’re already on the “slope”. The Royal Terrace was the test to see if this type of pass would sell.

Its more than just that as well, there’s the watchwork pick, also the flamekissed armor.

They REMOVED the Central Services Hub from the game and are SELLING a central services hub for 1000 gems. These facts are not in dispute.

mrstealth.6701:

For those that have thrown in the idea of the “slippery slope”, mind the fact that this is actually the 2nd step, so we’re already on the “slope”. The Royal Terrace was the test to see if this type of pass would sell.

Now we’re at the next step down the line, of actually removing something and replacing it with a pay service.

Exactly what did they remove that couldn’t already be gotten with the royal terrace pass? I see the captains airship has additional services which was vehemently requested by players. All of these additional services are present in Gendarran.

Nausiation.1469:

Lord Kuru.3685:

They’re not even making an effort to be sneaky or subtle about it anymore.

you have no idea what you’re talking about. this is the same as the royal pass which has been in the game for a while, just with a different name.

Actually he has a point, yes they do give you access to all the things in the ship for free in different places, but, for example if you want to access the laurel merchant in the keep you can’t as it is in the airship, your only choice is to port to a city and port back, they didn’t necessarily MAKE you buy the pass they just make it so you have to pay in-game currency just to talk to a vendor unless you do, don’t get me wrong I was a huge fan of the permanent harvest tools, but the more they release stuff in that store the more I feel like their bringing the infomercial feel to Guild Wars 2 and that would ruin the game for me.

Ayrilana.1396:

mrstealth.6701:

For those that have thrown in the idea of the “slippery slope”, mind the fact that this is actually the 2nd step, so we’re already on the “slope”. The Royal Terrace was the test to see if this type of pass would sell.

Now we’re at the next step down the line, of actually removing something and replacing it with a pay service.

Exactly what did they remove that couldn’t already be gotten with the royal terrace pass?

Lions Arch.

morrolan.9608:

laharl.8435:

Lord Kuru.3685:

You can remove QoL features from the game. You can add QoL features to the game behind a paywall.

But when you take what’s currently a free QoL feature and put it behind a paywall, that’s really bad. And judging from Anet’s response (i.e., none) this is a sign of things to come.

And looking at how Anet creeps these out slowly, here’s likely what’s next:

• Any new map will have a paywall on its WPs. (White knights: “hey, you can just walk so it’s ok, right? Plus, I walk everywhere anyway, who needs WPs?”) Then:
• All WPs will be paywalled. (White knights: “hey, you can just walk so it’s ok, right? Plus, I walk everywhere anyway, who needs WPs?”)

What did they take that was free and put behind a pay wall? Oh, nothing… lol

You’re not actually addressing the argument. As was said earlier in the thread almost every single poster criticising it is putting forth reasoned arguments as to why whereas those who don’t object to it offer nothing.

PookieDaWombat.6209:

NOTHING IS BEHIND A PAYWALL. Was that clear enough for you now? Nothing.

Sure something has been, and its been stated multiple times, convenience.

It’s a single loading screen, are you kidding…

The gem store is supposed to be about convenience. How is this concept so difficult to understand? Look at the other gem store items, all quality of life items, items of convenience. This is how non-p2w games run a cash shop.

Aidenwolf.5964:

Ayrilana.1396:

mrstealth.6701:

For those that have thrown in the idea of the “slippery slope”, mind the fact that this is actually the 2nd step, so we’re already on the “slope”. The Royal Terrace was the test to see if this type of pass would sell.

Now we’re at the next step down the line, of actually removing something and replacing it with a pay service.

Exactly what did they remove that couldn’t already be gotten with the royal terrace pass?

Lions Arch.

Try again with a better answer please.

Aidenwolf.5964:

They REMOVED the Central Services Hub from the game and are SELLING a central services hub for 1000 gems. These facts are not in dispute.

They relocated, minus crafting stations. Seriously, get a grip. The world is not ending, click a waypoint…ooh fixed!