Guild Wars 2

Emiko.3217:

Just a thought here.. pondering the dialog between Evon Gnashblade and Jirtta, the Asura Lionguard soldier. Did it ever occur to anyone that under the direction of Ellen Kiel, the Lionguard stole the Black Lion Trading Company from Evon?
Evon was the one who warned the Lionguard of Scarlett’s imminent attack.

Kiel warned them too. They were both ignored.

The problem I have here is that there’s a mix of great writing (Kiel’s conscription of Evon and all that it implies) mixed with moments of terrible writing (Evon’s betrayal of Lion’s Arch and deactivation of a gate). On one hand, they’ve done great things to build a story around Evon. On the other hand, they’ve had him do something that should get him executed, no excuses.

I honestly don’t know what they’re going for here.

Palador.2170:

…
(Evon’s betrayal of Lion’s Arch and deactivation of a gate). On one hand, they’ve done great things to build a story around Evon. On the other hand, they’ve had him do something that should get him executed, no excuses.

What the hell are you talking about? What gate? What betrayal?

Emiko.3217:

Just a thought here.. pondering the dialog between Evon Gnashblade and Jirtta, the Asura Lionguard soldier. Did it ever occur to anyone that under the direction of Ellen Kiel, the Lionguard stole the Black Lion Trading Company from Evon?
Evon was the one who warned the Lionguard of Scarlett’s imminent attack.

Through history (the real one) such things have happened a lot. During war and war-like times theres always those that through actions of the greater good somehow comes out of it on top.
Its the winner who decides whats part of the history and whats not.

Mortifer.2946:

Palador.2170:

…
(Evon’s betrayal of Lion’s Arch and deactivation of a gate). On one hand, they’ve done great things to build a story around Evon. On the other hand, they’ve had him do something that should get him executed, no excuses.

What the hell are you talking about? What gate? What betrayal?

The final Dolyak escort in LA before the end of the event has Evon Gnashblade along with the Dolyaks. Once they reach the end, there’s a bit of dialogue between the Lionguard there telling Evon to hurry up and get his Dolyaks through so they can resume evacuating civilians. Once he’s through, the gate shuts down (They blamed it on Evon, but it was probably closed on Kiel’s orders), the guards run for the exits.

Lol, I doubt Evon is able to shut down the gate.

Mortifer.2946:

Lol, I doubt Evon is able to shut down the gate.

Given his Ash Legion background, it’s rather hard to tell what he is and isn’t capable of.

I’m surprised Evon has no goons to protect him from this kind of intimidation, considering he is a Charr and was an Ash Legion operative in the past. Or maybe the Lion’s Guard was his bodyguard (personally financing them), he is relying on Lion’s Guard protection? Then again, even if he has a private army, there’s still a chance he could be betrayed, unless it’s a family/clan based army which he can trust.

Steel Fenrir.2791:

I’m surprised Evon has no goons to protect him from this kind of intimidation, considering he is a Charr and was an Ash Legion operative in the past. Or maybe the Lion’s Guard was his bodyguard (personally financing them), he is relying on Lion’s Guard protection? Then again, even if he has a private army, there’s still a chance he could be betrayed, unless it’s a family/clan based army which he can trust.

Was it ever explained WHY he left the Ash Legion? If I recall, a charr is usually in a Legion for life until they die or they become a gladium. If it’s gladium, I understand. But if he didn’t leave because of that, isn’t there a chance that basically he went AWOL on Ash Legion?

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/short-story-evon-gnashblade-disembarks/

lordkrall.7241:

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/short-story-evon-gnashblade-disembarks/

Ahh, I see. So he ended up becoming that which he killed, huh?

Palador.2170:

Emiko.3217:

Just a thought here.. pondering the dialog between Evon Gnashblade and Jirtta, the Asura Lionguard soldier. Did it ever occur to anyone that under the direction of Ellen Kiel, the Lionguard stole the Black Lion Trading Company from Evon?
Evon was the one who warned the Lionguard of Scarlett’s imminent attack.

Kiel warned them too. They were both ignored.

The problem I have here is that there’s a mix of great writing (Kiel’s conscription of Evon and all that it implies) mixed with moments of terrible writing (Evon’s betrayal of Lion’s Arch and deactivation of a gate). On one hand, they’ve done great things to build a story around Evon. On the other hand, they’ve had him do something that should get him executed, no excuses.

I honestly don’t know what they’re going for here.

The Lionguard soldier told him the gate needed to be deactivated. Evon had his back.

RyuDragnier.9476:

Steel Fenrir.2791:

I’m surprised Evon has no goons to protect him from this kind of intimidation, considering he is a Charr and was an Ash Legion operative in the past. Or maybe the Lion’s Guard was his bodyguard (personally financing them), he is relying on Lion’s Guard protection? Then again, even if he has a private army, there’s still a chance he could be betrayed, unless it’s a family/clan based army which he can trust.

Was it ever explained WHY he left the Ash Legion? If I recall, a charr is usually in a Legion for life until they die or they become a gladium. If it’s gladium, I understand. But if he didn’t leave because of that, isn’t there a chance that basically he went AWOL on Ash Legion?

I was under the impression that one of Ash Legion’s projects is to take control of Lion’s Arch.

Wow, so he still has a warband? I’m under the impression he left (I skimmed through Evon’s past and I gathered there was some sort of betrayal in his past, that’s why I surmised he left his warband). But where are they now, shouldn’t they be protecting Evon? Maybe they are, but in the Ash Legion’s way (blackmail, assassination, probably even bribery considering Evon’s their legionnaire). They could probably dispatch Jirtta easily, but she is just a pawn of Kiel.

Steel Fenrir.2791:

Wow, so he still has a warband? I’m under the impression he left (I skimmed through Evon’s past and I gathered there was some sort of betrayal in his past, that’s why I surmised he left his warband). But where are they now, shouldn’t they be protecting Evon? Maybe they are, but in the Ash Legion’s way (blackmail, assassination, probably even bribery considering Evon’s their legionnaire). They could probably dispatch Jirtta easily, but she is just a pawn of Kiel.

@darkace, I don’t know the equivalent english word of a clan based army haha. My family was involved in a clan war in the past, so that was what I was basing it. Being Charr that would be his warband, but I initially thought he left them. So it seems he still has some backup plan.

You’ve typed all this and yet you skimmed (and it still seems like you haven’t fully read it) the back story. Their plan is to control Lion’s Arch. If an Ash warband wanted you to know where they are, they’d tell your corpse.
I’d imagine his subordinates are hiding in plain sight; merchants, Lionguard, Locals..

shuddy owns most of the gates in lion’s arch.. evon may have been the last person through before it broke down, and she is just blaming him for closing it.. though, she was complaining to get the yaks out and let people through so she could close it off.. so, maybe he did it just to be a  k i t t e n

as for martial law, i’m sure there’s plenty he could do to avoid the firing squad.. Fyr Raggedfur in bloodtide said evon could use the disaster to drive other merchants out of business.. maybe kiel is trying to commandeer blTc so what’s left of the lionguard can war profiteer

Emiko.3217:

Just a thought here.. pondering the dialog between Evon Gnashblade and Jirtta, the Asura Lionguard soldier. Did it ever occur to anyone that under the direction of Ellen Kiel, the Lionguard stole the Black Lion Trading Company from Evon?

It’s even better when you consider, it does not take a place in a lionguard-controlled territory. The Keep belongs to Vigil. Lionguards i can understand – they are a mercenary force under a pirate council. Since they feel they can rob people blind in the Vigil stronghold, and they do not even try to hide it, it must mean that the Vigil must have agreed to it.

Of course the longterm consequences should likely be devastating. It’s not like they can prevent merchants from setting shop somewhere else, once word gets out. And the Vigil will lose its image here as well, which will also have serious downsides. Reaction to military organizations that are robbing people is way different than to ones that protect them.

The most funny thing is, of course, that the Lionguard could not enforce their decision if Evon did decide to leave. Once he’s through the gate (any gate), he’s beyond their reach. I guess the only reason why he didn’t leave already is because he is not about his personal gain, but is acting still on behalf of Ash Legion.

Astralporing.1957:

Emiko.3217:

Just a thought here.. pondering the dialog between Evon Gnashblade and Jirtta, the Asura Lionguard soldier. Did it ever occur to anyone that under the direction of Ellen Kiel, the Lionguard stole the Black Lion Trading Company from Evon?

It’s even better when you consider, it does not take a place in a lionguard-controlled territory. The Keep belongs to Vigil. Lionguards i can understand – they are a mercenary force under a pirate council. Since they feel they can rob people blind in the Vigil stronghold, and they do not even try to hide it, it must mean that the Vigil must have agreed to it.

Of course the longterm consequences should likely be devastating. It’s not like they can prevent merchants from setting shop somewhere else, once word gets out. And the Vigil will lose its image here as well, which will also have serious downsides. Reaction to military organizations that are robbing people is way different than to ones that protect them.

The most funny thing is, of course, that the Lionguard could not enforce their decision if Evon did decide to leave. Once he’s through the gate (any gate), he’s beyond their reach. I guess the only reason why he didn’t leave already is because he is not about his personal gain, but is acting still on behalf of Ash Legion.

This made me realize something, something that may explain why the Vigil even allowed it to begin with along with the Lionguard conscription…is it possible that the Order of Whispers tipped the Vigil and the Lionguard/Kiel off on everything he’s done? If the Order considers him a threat to Lion’s Arch’s neutrality or even taking it back, I have no doubts they’d pull this sort of shadowy behind-the-scenes manipulation to put him on a leash.

His company supplies almost everybody in Tyria and he’s a brilliant businessman, so he (and by extension the company) are too valuable to take him out of control of it or even kill him. But forcing him on the leash of the Lionguard so he’s unable to enact any sort of power scale tipping or even not supplying goods to the people who need it most in this type of tragedy? Sounds like something up their alley.

Boneheart.3561:

Steel Fenrir.2791:

Wow, so he still has a warband? I’m under the impression he left (I skimmed through Evon’s past and I gathered there was some sort of betrayal in his past, that’s why I surmised he left his warband). But where are they now, shouldn’t they be protecting Evon? Maybe they are, but in the Ash Legion’s way (blackmail, assassination, probably even bribery considering Evon’s their legionnaire). They could probably dispatch Jirtta easily, but she is just a pawn of Kiel.

@darkace, I don’t know the equivalent english word of a clan based army haha. My family was involved in a clan war in the past, so that was what I was basing it. Being Charr that would be his warband, but I initially thought he left them. So it seems he still has some backup plan.

You’ve typed all this and yet you skimmed (and it still seems like you haven’t fully read it) the back story. Their plan is to control Lion’s Arch. If an Ash warband wanted you to know where they are, they’d tell your corpse.
I’d imagine his subordinates are hiding in plain sight; merchants, Lionguard, Locals..

Didn’t you understand what I said? I said I skimmed Evon’s back story so I thought he was no longer part of the legion because betrayal is no no in Charr society. I thought he “saved” the people of LA, and is now working independently from his legion or the Charr hegemony. Now that I’ve read about it further, I realize he was still following his orders but wants a different approach, and the Ash Legion’s presence is still a strong possibility.

I followed Hobo/Hoho/Healo-Tron around yesterday.

I find it interesting that Evon is obtaining things for him, or at least seems to be. Maybe Heal-o-tron isn’t as benevolent as he is trying to project.

So, the question begs to be asked… What’s in it for Evon?

RyuDragnier.9476:

This made me realize something, something that may explain why the Vigil even allowed it to begin with along with the Lionguard conscription…is it possible that the Order of Whispers tipped the Vigil and the Lionguard/Kiel off on everything he’s done? If the Order considers him a threat to Lion’s Arch’s neutrality or even taking it back, I have no doubts they’d pull this sort of shadowy behind-the-scenes manipulation to put him on a leash.

Order might. It’s Vigil we’re talking about however. The “charge the front gates in broad daylight approach” guys. If they considered Evon a threat, they would have dealt with him directly. If they knew about his Ash Legion connections and considered those a problem, they would have directly protested to that Legion (remember, by the way, who’s Vigil commander).
In fact, this difference in approach between Vigil and Order is the main reason why Vigil doesn’t think too well about Whispers.
No, if they act the way they act now – doing nothing about the case – it means exactly what it seems. They think it is completely okay to extort money and resources from people when they are needed.

Ashabhi.1365:

So, the question begs to be asked… What’s in it for Evon?

It is explained in the same dialog. He thinks that while seraphs will not care, the Captain’s Council might be interested. So, he’s still looking for an edge in internal LA politics.

Dakota.4591:

Mortifer.2946:

Palador.2170:

…
(Evon’s betrayal of Lion’s Arch and deactivation of a gate). On one hand, they’ve done great things to build a story around Evon. On the other hand, they’ve had him do something that should get him executed, no excuses.

What the hell are you talking about? What gate? What betrayal?

The final Dolyak escort in LA before the end of the event has Evon Gnashblade along with the Dolyaks. Once they reach the end, there’s a bit of dialogue between the Lionguard there telling Evon to hurry up and get his Dolyaks through so they can resume evacuating civilians. Once he’s through, the gate shuts down (They blamed it on Evon, but it was probably closed on Kiel’s orders), the guards run for the exits.

That’s not too much of a problem, I’ve seen this happen with one of the very first escorts, and the other dolyaks just ran through the deactivated gate.
Obviously Evon just used a hologram to make the gate look like it was deactivated, so Scarlet’s forces would be tricked and the people could still evacuate.
When they pretend to be throwing themselves off cliffs to choose suicide over murder, they are actually saved.

Bravo, Evon. Bravo.

Evon is supporting Heal-o-Tron’s project because if HoT succeeds in his mission, Evon will get to ride his aether-trails as the person who helped HoT stop Scarlet/save civilians, thus winning back goodwill from the Captain’s Council and possibly elevating him further in the eyes of the public. (Which would have taken quite a hit if the civilians he abandoned at the gate survive and spread word of what Evon did.)

If HoT fails, no skin off Evon’s back. He’d lose his investment in the parts HoT wanted, but that’s a minor setback considering his massive wealth reserves. (Seriously, where do you think that 15% tax on all BLTC trades is going?)

The problem I have with it is that the Lionguard has NO authority over Evon right now. None what so ever. They’re in Vigil Keep. They’re not in any holding of Lion’s Arch nor the Lion Guard. They’re are under the protection of the Vigil, taking up space in on Vigil ground in Kryta proper. Evon may be a resident of Lion’s Arch, but right now, he’s not and for all they no his residence doesn’t even exist any more. As such he has no reason to be beholden to anything they say.

Hmm…

What If:

Due to losing the election to Kiel, and being the ever-present thorn in his side getting all the glory (and the aether ship), Evon felt the need to regain his previous level of power, and even to surpass it while also getting her out of the way. Evon then found Scarlet and saw she had mental issues, but was easily influenced. He then schemed to, not just encourage, but finance Scarlet’s cause and even supplied her with secret locations to work on her technologies and build her Marionette. His intention: to help her to wreak havoc with the ultimate goal being the total destruction of Lion’s Arch. (see edit)

Then, after the dust settles, paid voices rise up with cheers of how it was Evon who was responsible for saving the citizens of Lion’s Arch! This story is corroborated by the much-loved and respected Hero-Tron who had been bribed by Evon to back the lie with various items that Evon ‘acquired’ for ‘him/it’ (as well as with blackmail of Hero-Tron’s less than heroic deeds from the past). And from the ashes rises a false savior, a hero of the people. False information is found that points to Ellen Kiel as being in on planning the attack with Scarlet and she is ousted from her seat on the Captain’s Council, jailed and sentenced to death. However, Evon pleads mercy, and her death sentence is ‘lessened’ to the rest of her life in a prison cell where Evon visits her every day and boasts of besting her and that she will live out her days as an imprisoned hero, hated by the very people she strove to protect, and aware of Evon as being the one who orchestrated everything.

Evon also gets all the construction contracts to rebuild LA and he’ll rake in a ton of coin, is given his seat on the council and now holds more power in the city than ever before. Losing to Kiel was the best thing that ever happened to him.

(Honestly, that last part actually sounds a little too close to real life schemes of certain politicians supplying bombs and weapons to the bad guys to level cities so that the construction companies owned by these politicians get the rebuild contracts and make a ton of money on the deal. I wonder if Anet would actually throw this all too real scenario into their story…)

It is possible that when reports of Scarlet’s Thumper Devices showing up all over Tyria starting coming out, that Evon began to realize he did not have control over Scarlet; these devices were never part of the plan.

Little did Evon know that Scarlet wasn’t actually insane…she knew what was under Lion’s Arch and she allowed him to think he was using her. However, it was she who used him to reach her goal of unleashing the thing beneath Lion’s Arch.

edit
As pointed out by Kal Spiro (below), my first paragraph does not fit with the timeline of events. I’m going to adjust that a little bit here to instead have the scheme with Scarlet as being in the works long before the election, but getting Kiel to be the patsy and a personal toy/trophy would be an added bonus for Evon due to her ‘winning’ the election. (I say ‘winning’ due to the theories of the election having been rigged by the creators out-of-game or by the various NPCs in-game)
Also, I originally meant to post this in this other thread (which I now have) but replied on this tab accidentally. Luckily for me it actually fits in with the discussion here as well

This lacks one key detail. Scarlet was already fully active long before anything took place between Evon and Kiel.

Kal Spiro.9745:

This lacks one key detail. Scarlet was already fully active long before anything took place between Evon and Kiel.

Ah. Thanks. I was just writing it out as I was thinking of it spur of the moment. I hadn’t put in any time to look at plausibility or matching with the timeline of events. I mostly come up with ideas as I am writing it out in one go as that is when I tend to get the most interesting concepts; before I over-think it. I was thinking that seemingly ‘random’ scarlet attacks could also have been agreed upon by Evon and Scarlet so as to not interfere with his merchandise shipping routes. Hmm. I think I may actually put in some time to see if I can get this to work with what we know of how events unfolded.

edit
May just shift that first part around a little bit for now and have the scheme with Scarlet as being in the works long before the election, but getting Kiel to be the patsy and a personal toy/trophy would be an added bonus for Evon due to her ‘winning’ the election.
(I say ‘winning’ due to the theories of the election having been rigged by the creators out-of-game or by the various NPCs in-game)

Dakota.4591:

Mortifer.2946:

Palador.2170:

…
(Evon’s betrayal of Lion’s Arch and deactivation of a gate). On one hand, they’ve done great things to build a story around Evon. On the other hand, they’ve had him do something that should get him executed, no excuses.

What the hell are you talking about? What gate? What betrayal?

The final Dolyak escort in LA before the end of the event has Evon Gnashblade along with the Dolyaks. Once they reach the end, there’s a bit of dialogue between the Lionguard there telling Evon to hurry up and get his Dolyaks through so they can resume evacuating civilians. Once he’s through, the gate shuts down (They blamed it on Evon, but it was probably closed on Kiel’s orders), the guards run for the exits.

Not a lionguard, Captain Shud of the captain’s council. And IMMEDIATELY after he goes through (And he does say “I got your back”) she goes “What the, how did he turn off the gate. RUN FOR THE EXITS!”

Kal Spiro.9745:

The problem I have with it is that the Lionguard has NO authority over Evon right now. None what so ever. They’re in Vigil Keep. They’re not in any holding of Lion’s Arch nor the Lion Guard. They’re are under the protection of the Vigil, taking up space in on Vigil ground in Kryta proper. Evon may be a resident of Lion’s Arch, but right now, he’s not and for all they no his residence doesn’t even exist any more. As such he has no reason to be beholden to anything they say.

Evon is a citizen of LA even if LA is currently occupied. As a citizen, he has to follow LA’s law. And LA’s law allow them to conscript citizens under martial law. Once conscripted, they are soldiers. Any soldiers who desert are punishable by execution.

It doesn’t matter that they are staying at Vigil’s space at all. It’s like saying soldiers who desert in enemy or neutral territory cannot be punished.

guys…it’s just a game…

Mortifer.2946:

Palador.2170:

…
(Evon’s betrayal of Lion’s Arch and deactivation of a gate). On one hand, they’ve done great things to build a story around Evon. On the other hand, they’ve had him do something that should get him executed, no excuses.

What the hell are you talking about? What gate? What betrayal?

He takes the Dolyaks through the gate in LA and inactivates it.

Sorry, but we are all a bit confused at this point.

FateOmega.9601:

Kal Spiro.9745:

The problem I have with it is that the Lionguard has NO authority over Evon right now. None what so ever. They’re in Vigil Keep. They’re not in any holding of Lion’s Arch nor the Lion Guard. They’re are under the protection of the Vigil, taking up space in on Vigil ground in Kryta proper. Evon may be a resident of Lion’s Arch, but right now, he’s not and for all they no his residence doesn’t even exist any more. As such he has no reason to be beholden to anything they say.

Evon is a citizen of LA even if LA is currently occupied. As a citizen, he has to follow LA’s law. And LA’s law allow them to conscript citizens under martial law. Once conscripted, they are soldiers. Any soldiers who desert are punishable by execution.

It doesn’t matter that they are staying at Vigil’s space at all. It’s like saying soldiers who desert in enemy or neutral territory cannot be punished.

Actually it matters a great deal. They’re not anywhere under Lion Guard jurisdiction, therefore they have no authority to do anything to or with Evon, nor his property.

It might make him persona non grata with Lion’s Arch, but the bribe to get that lifted would probably be significantly less than what the Lion Guard is likely to take from him under the current situation.

Steel Fenrir.2791:

Boneheart.3561:

Steel Fenrir.2791:

Wow, so he still has a warband? I’m under the impression he left (I skimmed through Evon’s past and I gathered there was some sort of betrayal in his past, that’s why I surmised he left his warband). But where are they now, shouldn’t they be protecting Evon? Maybe they are, but in the Ash Legion’s way (blackmail, assassination, probably even bribery considering Evon’s their legionnaire). They could probably dispatch Jirtta easily, but she is just a pawn of Kiel.

@darkace, I don’t know the equivalent english word of a clan based army haha. My family was involved in a clan war in the past, so that was what I was basing it. Being Charr that would be his warband, but I initially thought he left them. So it seems he still has some backup plan.

You’ve typed all this and yet you skimmed (and it still seems like you haven’t fully read it) the back story. Their plan is to control Lion’s Arch. If an Ash warband wanted you to know where they are, they’d tell your corpse.
I’d imagine his subordinates are hiding in plain sight; merchants, Lionguard, Locals..

Didn’t you understand what I said? I said I skimmed Evon’s back story so I thought he was no longer part of the legion because betrayal is no no in Charr society. I thought he “saved” the people of LA, and is now working independently from his legion or the Charr hegemony. Now that I’ve read about it further, I realize he was still following his orders but wants a different approach, and the Ash Legion’s presence is still a strong possibility.

I understood what you TYPED. The difference between present and past tense is very important.