Guild Wars 2

Why didn’t anyone in the Living Story (Marjory’s sister, the PC, D.E. 2, other chars et cetera) find it surprising or unusual?

The kingdom of Kryta is vaguely similar to late Rennaissance or early Industrial Age Europe (with elements from other cultures like China); sure, lesbians weren’t be heavily persecuted in that period but homosexuality still wasn’t completely socially acceptable either…

And the only thing Marjory’s sis cares about is that Kasmeer’s a noble? It doesn’t make sense! People cared about heirs a lot back then; women were supposed to mother children. Besides, Christianity (which generally prefers you to stay straight or at least make babies) was highly important back then, and given what we know about Krytans, GW2 humans too are quite religious.

I understand LGBT not being a problem in futuristic settings like Mass Effect when people have learned to be tolerant and have likely developed cloning technology to make the main difference between homosexuality and heterosexuality redundant. I would understand socially acceptable gay and lesbian relationships among the asura (for the same reasons), the sylvari (self-explanatory), the charr (they’re vaguely Greco-Roman, and we all know how they loved homosexuality), the norn (ditto, they are Vikings/Native Americans and neither really looked down at gays)… but the Rennaissance/Industrial, European humans? How is it possible for homosexuality to be completely normal in such a setting? Yes, GW2 is a fantasy, but it is still somewhat… jarring.

I’m not saying ANet shouldn’t have tried to add some lesbian romance between humans. What I’m trying to say is that they should not have made their relationship completely normal. Let them be persecuted, if only a bit; naturally, they wouldn’t care about what others would think of them and, ta-dah, love would triumph! Realism aside, this would make their love story way more interesting and deep.

Krytans are very tolerant! If the NPCs would not accept homosexuality in Gw2 I think many people would not like it and flamed… this game is played by many young people and if the NPCs are discriminators it would not be a good model.

Just because something is similar to the real world doesn’t mean it is identical.
The fact that they allow friendship between different races for one would be a rather big difference from the real world during that period and so on.

The people in Tyria is basically not as narrow-minded and silly as the Earth counterpart.

lordkrall.7241:

Just because something is similar to the real world doesn’t mean it is identical.
The fact that they allow friendship between different races for one would be a rather big difference from the real world during that period and so on.

The people in Tyria is basically not as narrow-minded and silly as the Earth counterpart.

B-b-but… their government is ran by corrupt warmongers, there is a psychotic extremist cult on loose (one that ruled Kryta, even) and the only reason racism isn’t a thing in GW2 is because speciecism is stronger (many humans in Ascalon despise the charr as far as I know). So there is some discrimination.

There has to be a reason for complete social acception of LGBT people. It would make more sense if there were ways for them to concieve children through magic and/or technology, for example… though that would be weird. The asura could pull that off, though.

It’s a fantasy world, even if similar to some extent with human history. But as we can see woman in the army without any discrimination about it or being friends with other races it’s clear that this world is different (and better ) than our history. Also about religion discriminating homosexuality, it usually is because of concieving children, and given the state of magic in Tyria i dont see a reason why it can’t be induced by it.
Also about lack of LGBT in history it not exactly true. It existed for a long time (like you mentioned about Romans) even in reneisance era europe (would even say especially then), it just wasn’t considered good topic to discuss. And since in Tyria we can’t see a reason why it would be discriminated i dont think it’s so unlikely that it isn’t suprising for anyone around them.

Ponku.7925:

It’s a fantasy world, even if similar to some extent with human history. But as we can see woman in the army without any discrimination about it or being friends with other races it’s clear that this world is different (and better ) than our history. Also about religion discriminating homosexuality, it usually is because of concieving children, and given the state of magic in Tyria i dont see a reason why it can’t be induced by it.
Also about lack of LGBT in history it not exactly true. It existed for a long time (like you mentioned about Romans) even in reneisance era europe (would even say especially then), it just wasn’t considered good topic to discuss. And since in Tyria we can’t see a reason why it would be discriminated i dont think it’s so unlikely that it isn’t suprising for anyone around them.

Well, it’s a bit weird for me to see so many women in the army too, but I assume it makes sense because Tyria is a magical world. And yes, I was not saying that gays did not exist during the Rennaissance, merely that they weren’t very vocal back then and tended to be a tad persecuted. What I’d like too see is something similar to the life of Oscar Wilde.

Kasmeer writing “De Profundis”. Now that’d be interesting.

Imperios.2543:

Why didn’t anyone in the Living Story (Marjory’s sister, the PC, D.E. 2, other chars et cetera) find it surprising or unusual?

The kingdom of Kryta is vaguely similar to late Rennaissance or early Industrial Age Europe (with elements from other cultures like China); sure, lesbians weren’t be heavily persecuted in that period but homosexuality still wasn’t completely socially acceptable either…

And the only thing Marjory’s sis cares about is that Kasmeer’s a noble? It doesn’t make sense! People cared about heirs a lot back then; women were supposed to mother children. Besides, Christianity (which generally prefers you to stay straight or at least make babies) was highly important back then, and given what we know about Krytans, GW2 humans too are quite religious.

I understand LGBT not being a problem in futuristic settings like Mass Effect when people have learned to be tolerant and have likely developed cloning technology to make the main difference between homosexuality and heterosexuality redundant. I would understand socially acceptable gay and lesbian relationships among the asura (for the same reasons), the sylvari (self-explanatory), the charr (they’re vaguely Greco-Roman, and we all know how they loved homosexuality), the norn (ditto, they are Vikings/Native Americans and neither really looked down at gays)… but the Rennaissance/Industrial, European humans? How is it possible for homosexuality to be completely normal in such a setting? Yes, GW2 is a fantasy, but it is still somewhat… jarring.

I’m not saying ANet shouldn’t have tried to add some lesbian romance between humans. What I’m trying to say is that they should not have made their relationship completely normal. Let them be persecuted, if only a bit; naturally, they wouldn’t care about what others would think of them and, ta-dah, love would triumph! Realism aside, this would make their love story way more interesting and deep.

Most homophobia in European history stems from the spread and dominance of a certain group of religions within the area. Tyria lacks this cultural history and therefore what you are suggesting would be out of place and forced.

Jory’s sister’s reaction comes more from Jory’s sister knowing Jory’s buttons than an influence of the GW2 society. I took the dialog in the Dead End as being surprised and friendly banter that Jory’s interested in a noble – obviously one of Jory’s buttons. And sis is just lightly rubbing it in.

As for comparisons to our own history – how about we just not? Too much bad. Clean slate, Mr. Sulu, set a course for out there.

Rather than having “no reason for LGBT to be accepted”
it is far more the case of “no reason for LGBT to NOT be accepted”

Tyria is a fantasy world. Whilst it may have some resemblence to our Earth; there are many things that are different, and thus none of our norms could apply.

How is having dragons, multiple sentient races, so many different types of magic, and the mists; how are all of these more believable than the acceptance of LGBT relationships?

Our discriminations are mostly learned-and-taught. I would go as far as to say that “not being able to have children” is more a retrospective excuse for discrimination, rather than any sort of reason for it.
After all: many animals show homosexual tendencies.
whereas the human race is the only species to display homophobia…

Alice.8694:

Imperios.2543:

Why didn’t anyone in the Living Story (Marjory’s sister, the PC, D.E. 2, other chars et cetera) find it surprising or unusual?

The kingdom of Kryta is vaguely similar to late Rennaissance or early Industrial Age Europe (with elements from other cultures like China); sure, lesbians weren’t be heavily persecuted in that period but homosexuality still wasn’t completely socially acceptable either…

And the only thing Marjory’s sis cares about is that Kasmeer’s a noble? It doesn’t make sense! People cared about heirs a lot back then; women were supposed to mother children. Besides, Christianity (which generally prefers you to stay straight or at least make babies) was highly important back then, and given what we know about Krytans, GW2 humans too are quite religious.

I understand LGBT not being a problem in futuristic settings like Mass Effect when people have learned to be tolerant and have likely developed cloning technology to make the main difference between homosexuality and heterosexuality redundant. I would understand socially acceptable gay and lesbian relationships among the asura (for the same reasons), the sylvari (self-explanatory), the charr (they’re vaguely Greco-Roman, and we all know how they loved homosexuality), the norn (ditto, they are Vikings/Native Americans and neither really looked down at gays)… but the Rennaissance/Industrial, European humans? How is it possible for homosexuality to be completely normal in such a setting? Yes, GW2 is a fantasy, but it is still somewhat… jarring.

I’m not saying ANet shouldn’t have tried to add some lesbian romance between humans. What I’m trying to say is that they should not have made their relationship completely normal. Let them be persecuted, if only a bit; naturally, they wouldn’t care about what others would think of them and, ta-dah, love would triumph! Realism aside, this would make their love story way more interesting and deep.

Most homophobia in European history stems from the spread and dominance of a certain group of religions within the area. Tyria lacks this cultural history and therefore what you are suggesting would be out of place and forced.

For males, yes; not for females. Lesbianism was still an unusual thing (probably not persecuted much but still) – take Sappho, for example – and in many cultures it wasn’t even considered to be a form of sexuality (like in China).

GRexCarolinii.9604:

Rather than having “no reason for LGBT to be accepted”
it is far more the case of “no reason for LGBT to NOT be accepted”

Tyria is a fantasy world. Whilst it may have some resemblence to our Earth; there are many things that are different, and thus none of our norms could apply.

How is having dragons, multiple sentient races, so many different types of magic, and the mists; how are all of these more believable than the acceptance of LGBT relationships?

Our discriminations are mostly learned-and-taught. I would go as far as to say that “not being able to have children” is more a retrospective excuse for discrimination, rather than any sort of reason for it.
After all: many animals show homosexual tendencies.
whereas the human race is the only species to display homophobia…

We have racism in GW2; sexism, too. Why not homophobia?

Actually… guys. I guess what you said kinda makes sense. I assume Kryta is a bit like Ancient Greece but with more gender equality like in Northern Europe.

If we continue Imperios’ argument, we get something like this:
“Why not include pedofilia, cannibalism, sexually transmitted diseases or (gasp) visible genitalia? Those all exist in the real world, so why should they not exist in Guild Wars 2?”

Unless we would want all of that in the game too, Imperios’ argument is not valid. Tyria is a fantasy world. ArenaNet has the artistic license to use or not use any elements from the real world, and to add or not add any elements that do not exist in the real world. We as players have the choice to either accept this fantasy, or to move on to a different game.

So if people don’t like Tyria for not exhibiting enough intolerance for homosexuality, this might not be the right fiction for them.

Imperios.2543:

For males, yes; not for females. Lesbianism was still an unusual thing (probably not persecuted much but still) – take Sappho, for example – and in many cultures it wasn’t even considered to be a form of sexuality (like in China).

Yeah, but if you combine the lack of religious social influence we had with the gender equality Tyria enjoys, it’s easy to see why lesbian relationships would be nothing out of the ordinary.

And being a fantasy world, I wouldn’t be surprised if it were “normal” to still have male lovers around for purposes of kids. Not sure Tyrians are sold much on monogamy in the first place, tbh.

Plus, you know… I did get the feeling that Rox was a bit curious. Maybe it was supposed to hint that Charr don’t consider homosexual love weird, but she thought Humans would?

Jornophelanthas.1475:

If we continue Imperios’ argument, we get something like this:
“Why not include pedofilia, cannibalism, sexually transmitted diseases or (gasp) visible genitalia? Those all exist in the real world, so why should they not exist in Guild Wars 2?”

Unless we would want all of that in the game too, Imperios’ argument is not valid. Tyria is a fantasy world. ArenaNet has the artistic license to use or not use any elements from the real world, and to add or not add any elements that do not exist in the real world. We as players have the choice to either accept this fantasy, or to move on to a different game.

So if people don’t like Tyria for not exhibiting enough intolerance for homosexuality, this might not be the right fiction for them.

Reductio ad absurdem isn’t a legit tool in debating. Besides, it’s pedophilia and we do have cannibalism in GW2 (RISEN).

I don’t know why I asked for a darker story. Maybe it’s because my first and favourite universe was Warhammer, dunno. Or maybe I wanted a story of forbidden love because I loved Valerie in V for Vendetta. I was genuinely touched by her lesbian romance.

Carighan.6758:

Imperios.2543:

For males, yes; not for females. Lesbianism was still an unusual thing (probably not persecuted much but still) – take Sappho, for example – and in many cultures it wasn’t even considered to be a form of sexuality (like in China).

Yeah, but if you combine the lack of religious social influence we had with the gender equality Tyria enjoys, it’s easy to see why lesbian relationships would be nothing out of the ordinary.

And being a fantasy world, I wouldn’t be surprised if it were “normal” to still have male lovers around for purposes of kids. Not sure Tyrians are sold much on monogamy in the first place, tbh.

Plus, you know… I did get the feeling that Rox was a bit curious. Maybe it was supposed to hint that Charr don’t consider homosexual love weird, but she thought Humans would?

1) Lack of religious influence: Ahem… humans seem quite religious, even if their faith is mostly pagan.
2) Man for procreation: That would make a lot of sense, I guess! That’s what many RL LGBT people did before the modern era where our low child mortality rate allowed them to be less concerned about maintaining human population.
3) THAT would make even more sense. From charr’s tight-knit communal spirit, to their Greco-Roman culture, to their strong division between romance and procreation, it seems to me that homosexuality would be quite widespread among them.

Now we need a gay charr Ancient Greek-ish erastes/eromenos duo. That’d be cool

mjhungness.8059:

Jory’s sister’s reaction comes more from Jory’s sister knowing Jory’s buttons than an influence of the GW2 society. I took the dialog in the Dead End as being surprised and friendly banter that Jory’s interested in a noble – obviously one of Jory’s buttons. And sis is just lightly rubbing it in.

As for comparisons to our own history – how about we just not? Too much bad. Clean slate, Mr. Sulu, set a course for out there.

Oh myyyy!

Jokes aside, I don’t get the argument here. Ancient Greece was tolerant of homosexuality, yet on the timeline, they’re predating Christianity. They were also very religious but even in the military, homosexual relationships were encouraged and viewed as a positive. Don’t be so “christianocentric”, if that’s even a word. And more so, don’t blame the writers at Anet for not being so.

Oh for kitten’s sake its not a THING because the only thing that makes it an “issue” in our real life world is because we have modern day idiots that cannot fathom that those “rules to live by” that condemned such behavior were born from nomadic people that live in small tribes and settlements and who had to make sure to put societal rules in place to preserve their population. You know who didn’t have problems with homosexuality? large/established cultures that have no need for the same reproductive rules (see Greek, Roman, etc). There is absolutely NOTHING in GW lore that would have ever condemned someone for wanting to be a in a same sex relationship so no, there should be no friction on that front. Good gravy, just…just stop.

Their relationship itself is a non-issue, the only problem I have with it is that it is in your face all the time and you have to suffer through it like a creepy eavesdropper. At least Logans relationship never took the limelight, I would rather more focus be on the story rather than the tedious characters in it.

We have no crazy religions in Guild Wars to dictate moral ethics and it is a fantasy world with exotic races not real life. The writers can write a Utopian society that has no gender/sexual inequality if they choose and I think it good that they did. Showing any form of unpleasant discrimination is bad as the game has an age rating of 12 and needs to be careful about what message it sends to young people.

The love story is rubbish through, it plays out like a bad TV melodrama.

Things are unusual only because we are not familiar with it. I would say it’s comparable with how pancakes look like in the east and in the west.

I would implore you to question what is normal, especially if values is not part of the factors to be considered. However I do think people are limiting themselves to too much real world opinion in a fantasy world with giant talking cats and magic eating dragons.

The question that should be asked tho, is how the heck Belinda knows about the relationship between Majory and Kasmeer, unless Marjory had been telling her about, and Marjory doesn’t come off to me as a person who would talk about a love interest to her family, or Kasmeer would’ve met them at one point throughout the year.

Yes, this is a fantasy world and not historical earth.

But what came to my mind first when I read this thread title is, “But it’s Marjmeer, surely!”

Why do people twist my words so much?

I never said homosexuality is bad, I never said it did not exist in Renaissance Europe, I never said it did not exist before that (i.e Ancient Greece) and in fact suggested a Greek erastes/eromenos romance story, I never said was Christian-centric…

I am an agnostic, for God’s sake! I oppose my country’s “gay propaganda prohibition” laws! I myself am a minority!

What I said is that it’d be interesting to use the fact that KasJory are lesbian and make people oppose their romance; ever heard of stories of forbidden love? “Othello”, “Romeo and Juliet”, like that. This way their story would become more realistic and less idealised.

I loved Valerie’s story in V for Vendetta and it is for that reason that I’d like to include a story like this in GW2.

CeruleanRevolver.6085:

Things are unusual only because we are not familiar with it. I would say it’s comparable with how pancakes look like in the east and in the west.

I would implore you to question what is normal, especially if values is not part of the factors to be considered. However I do think people are limiting themselves to too much real world opinion in a fantasy world with giant talking cats and magic eating dragons.

The question that should be asked tho, is how the heck Belinda knows about the relationship between Majory and Kasmeer, unless Marjory had been telling her about, and Marjory doesn’t come off to me as a person who would talk about a love interest to her family, or Kasmeer would’ve met them at one point throughout the year.

Yeah, there are societies where homosexuality was not unusual, which is why I stated that it would mak sense for LGBT charr or asura pairings to be free of persecution, but probably not human ones because their society based on cultures that condoned gay people.

Aedelric.1287:

We have no crazy religions in Guild Wars to dictate moral ethics and it is a fantasy world with exotic races not real life. The writers can write a Utopian society that has no gender/sexual inequality if they choose and I think it good that they did. Showing any form of unpleasant discrimination is bad as the game has an age rating of 12 and needs to be careful about what message it sends to young people.

B-b-b-but saying “crazy religions” is discrimination as well. And there are multiple faiths in GW2, some of which can be quite weird.

That, and I don’t think children will imitate everything they see on the screen. It’s not like KasJory will turn everyone gay, isn’kitten

Imperios.2543:

What I said is that it’d be interesting to use the fact that KasJory are lesbian and make people oppose their romance; ever heard of stories of forbidden love? “Othello”, “Romeo and Juliet”, like that. This way their story would become more realistic and less idealised.

People who encounter opposition to gay romance all the time in real life might not find it all that enchanting and romantic to encounter it in a fantasy world too.

CeruleanRevolver.6085:

The question that should be asked tho, is how the heck Belinda knows about the relationship between Majory and Kasmeer, unless Marjory had been telling her about, and Marjory doesn’t come off to me as a person who would talk about a love interest to her family, or Kasmeer would’ve met them at one point throughout the year.

The way I took it and how they wrote it…Belinda probably knew about Majory sexuality for a long time since they’re family. That’s why she did not come off as omg wtf Kuh-Bam!.

Imperios, I think you are REALLY over thinking this. The objective of the GW2 writers is clearly not historical realism, or we would not be seeing women really anywhere except for in the domestic sphere and the marketplace. Many societies are based around reproductive viability and producing of heirs but Tyria is not one of them.

As great as forbidden love would be, the only difficulty I see would be if somehow Kasmeer reclaimed her noble titles and social class got in the way of things. Even in the Dead End, Marjory’s sister expressed reservations about Kasmeer’s class.

As some others have said, it’s not eh gender issue, but the fact that it’s “in your face” all the time.

It would be no different if it were Logan/Jennah, Rox/Braham, or any other “power couple.” Knowing that two people are involved is a whole lot different than having their relationship front and center all the time.

Back on topic:
So far, we don’t really know how the races of Tyria view relationships in general, but throughout history in the “real world” a difference in caste is much more important to the development of a person than who they are interested in. How many epic love stories do we have that involve one from the “wrong side of the tracks” who loves a noble/rich/upper caste person? Romeo and Juliet, anyone?

Even today, in some cultures, one cannot marry someone who is “above them.”

This is more of what I thought about when seeing Jory’s sister (forget her name) ribbing Jory about Kas.

Sitkaz.5463:

Imperios.2543:

What I said is that it’d be interesting to use the fact that KasJory are lesbian and make people oppose their romance; ever heard of stories of forbidden love? “Othello”, “Romeo and Juliet”, like that. This way their story would become more realistic and less idealised.

People who encounter opposition to gay romance all the time in real life might not find it all that enchanting and romantic to encounter it in a fantasy world too.

I’m with this one….I like the fact that it is a “non-issue” in Tyria. I want it to stay that way. Its just simple in Tyria, you love someone, go ahead and be with them. That’s refreshing.

kippey.9860:

Imperios, I think you are REALLY over thinking this. The objective of the GW2 writers is clearly not historical realism, or we would not be seeing women really anywhere except for in the domestic sphere and the marketplace. Many societies are based around reproductive viability and producing of heirs but Tyria is not one of them.

As great as forbidden love would be, the only difficulty I see would be if somehow Kasmeer reclaimed her noble titles and social class got in the way of things. Even in the Dead End, Marjory’s sister expressed reservations about Kasmeer’s class.

That’s what I don’t get. Classism and racism is a thing in Kryta, but gays are fine?

Producing heirs too is obviously important in Kryta given that they have nobles, unless it is like Imperial China or Russian Empire where you can recieve an aristocratic title through military service or passing an exam.

Sitkaz.5463:

Imperios.2543:

What I said is that it’d be interesting to use the fact that KasJory are lesbian and make people oppose their romance; ever heard of stories of forbidden love? “Othello”, “Romeo and Juliet”, like that. This way their story would become more realistic and less idealised.

People who encounter opposition to gay romance all the time in real life might not find it all that enchanting and romantic to encounter it in a fantasy world too.

It would make their romance more relateable then. Right now KasJory love just popped out of nothingness which I don’t get.

Imperios.2543:

That’s what I don’t get. Classism and racism is a thing in Kryta, but gays are fine?

As we can read in this thread, we can find a reasons why classism and racism exist in Kryta, but the main reason of homophobia does not exist there.

Imperios.2543:

Producing heirs too is obviously important in Kryta given that they have nobles, unless it is like Imperial China or Russian Empire where you can recieve an aristocratic title through military service or passing an exam.

Your explanation for gaining nobility may be true for Kryta, aslo there can be magicaly induced pregnancy, which wouldn’t require ppl of different gender to engage to have a heir.

Also from your original post i understood that you wonder why noone form ingame characters find they relationship unusual and i thought that was mostly what ppl tried to answer here, that from what we can understand in Kryta there is no prejudice toward that and why.

Ponku.7925:

Imperios.2543:

That’s what I don’t get. Classism and racism is a thing in Kryta, but gays are fine?

As we can read in this thread, we can find a reasons why classism and racism exist in Kryta, but the main reason of homophobia does not exist there.

Imperios.2543:

Producing heirs too is obviously important in Kryta given that they have nobles, unless it is like Imperial China or Russian Empire where you can recieve an aristocratic title through military service or passing an exam.

Your explanation for gaining nobility may be true for Kryta, aslo there can be magicaly induced pregnancy, which wouldn’t require ppl of different gender to engage to have a heir.

Also from your original post i understood that you wonder why noone form ingame characters find they relationship unusual and i thought that was mostly what ppl tried to answer here, that from what we can understand in Kryta there is no prejudice toward that and why.

Come to think about it, a Rennaissance society with no homophobia is probably concievable. So I guess it’s like Ancient Greece… though magical-induced pregnancy seems to be more like an asura thing.

Which brings us back to the suggestion I came up with a few posts ago.

We should see a LGBT charr erastes and eromenos romantic duo! Would be fun.

…

…

…

Still would like a forbidden love story. Though I can’t see any other species aside from humans as homophobic so… interspecies romance! Yay!

As other people have said just because Kryta is at a similar level of technological development as renaissance Europe doesn’t mean their history is similar in any other ways.

For one thing you yourself cited Christianity as a major influence on morals in that era, and Krytans have never heard of Christianity. As far as I’m aware their religion is a lot more flexible when it comes to relationships. (Speaking in very general terms it’s only really the Abrahamic religions that go in for explicit rules, so that’s not surprising.)

It may even be that their families aren’t concerned because they practice some form of polyamory. Which actually wasn’t that uncommon amongst nobility in various parts of the world throughout history, although more so for men. You’d have your husband or wife, your official partner whose children would be your heirs, and then you’d also have one or more mistresses who you actually liked and wanted to spend time with. This is why some countries had established systems for nobility to acknowledge and provide for their illegitimate children.

So maybe Kas and Jory’s families are assuming that yes, they have their female lover but when the time comes they will each take a husband as well and have children with him.

Imperios.2543:

Yeah, there are societies where homosexuality was not unusual, which is why I stated that it would mak sense for LGBT charr or asura pairings to be free of persecution, but probably not human ones because their society based on cultures that condoned gay people.

Ah but that’s the point, why should it only make sense for charrs and asuras? Why should humans be the exception to this? This fantasy world is inspired by the real world, but much of the rules and cultures need not be carried over (or at least at the whims of the author), and why must it be?

As what some others had brought up, some of us just want to see relationships like that, as just a relationship. And sadly in the real world, it’s not going to happen that soon yet, but we’re getting there.

Brutalistik.6473:

The way I took it and how they wrote it…Belinda probably knew about Majory sexuality for a long time since they’re family. That’s why she did not come off as omg wtf Kuh-Bam!.

Good point there, I looked at it as Belinda dropping in to visit, and immediately picking up that Kasmeer is more than just a friend to Marjory after just getting introduced.

Danikat.8537:

(Speaking in very general terms it’s only really the Abrahamic religions that go in for explicit rules, so that’s not surprising.)

Dharmic, too!

It may even be that their families aren’t concerned because they practice some form of polyamory. Which actually wasn’t that uncommon amongst nobility in various parts of the world throughout history, although more so for men. You’d have your husband or wife, your official partner whose children would be your heirs, and then you’d also have one or more mistresses who you actually liked and wanted to spend time with. This is why some countries had established systems for nobility to acknowledge and provide for their illegitimate children.

So maybe Kas and Jory’s families are assuming that yes, they have their female lover but when the time comes they will each take a husband as well and have children with him.

^ This would actually make a lot of sense in Renaissance society.

Doesn’t agree with you = narrow minded. Logic lol.

Templar.3418:

Doesn’t agree with you = narrow minded. Logic lol.

What are you talking about?

Imperios.2543:

B-b-b-but saying “crazy religions” is discrimination as well.

Nope, because I was exceptionally vague as to what which ones are `crazy´ and what makes them so. Regardless, it was me saying crazy and not anything in Guild Wars so it is hardly relevant.

It would be terrible PR because the issue is still so fresh in our world. They can use speciesism as a metaphor for xenophobia or racism in our world because those are issues we’ve been dealing with for millennia. Homophobia is way too recent. When I was a child it was accepted by pretty much the entire world that that was the correct way to think. Now it’s the exact opposite in a ridiculously short amount of time. There are probably even people playing GW2 that would agree with the homophobia, and that would be disastrous PR wise.

Fluffball.8307:

It would be terrible PR because the issue is still so fresh in our world. They can use speciesism as a metaphor for xenophobia or racism in our world because those are issues we’ve been dealing with for millennia. Homophobia is way too recent. When I was a child it was accepted by pretty much the entire world that that was the correct way to think.

And it still is in among many in my country. sigh My mother included. (though she is more heteronormative, she respects gays but is not accepting of their lifestyle)

I guess you’re right. GW2 isn’t edgy enough for that kind of thing.

The far more likely reason for the relationship’s acceptance is marketing. How the game sells overrides a writer’s emotional attachment to any conceivable plot. Realism takes a back seat to popular attitude, and the popular attitude is pro-LGBTQ.

Because this is not Assassin’s Creed 1. Few publishers have the courage to dive head first into social discrimination and political issues. Much easier to stay safe and just make things acceptable and everybody gets along.

Konrad Knox.5162:

Because this is not Assassin’s Creed 1. Few publishers have the courage to dive head first into social discrimination and political issues. Much easier to stay safe and just make things acceptable and everybody gets along.

Hahaha. You can’t be serious? Have you seen how the Asura talk about and treat the Skritt? I swear I get the feeling that the moment the skritt start forming their own genius society to rival the Asura, rat blood’s going to flow in the Maguuma jungle.

I think that if the people have no problem with walking plants, human-sized half bears half cats and waist-high grey people with giant ears, it would be kinda strange if they had problems with two women being in a relationship.

It has some elements similar to but is not rennaissance Europe so there is no issue. It makes perfect sense that they could be tolerant of it as other cultures have been.

They also couldn’t just bring this stuff in and then do nothing significant with it and they probably don’t want to focus that much on this subplot or the story is going to get muddled. It makes more sense to include racism/speciecism plots because the races learning to work together and get past previous conflict to fight the dragons is focus point for the story. That said the racism stuff is still fairly light in this story and not from the same mindset (great chain of being) that Europe had.

Demented Sheep.1642:

It has some elements similar to but is not rennaissance Europe so there is no issue. It makes perfect sense that they could be tolerant of it as other cultures have been. T

They also couldn’t just bring this stuff in and then do nothing significant with it and they probably don’t want to focus that much on this subplot or the story is going to get muddled. It makes more sense to include racism/speciecism plots because the races learning to work together and get past previous conflict to fight the dragons is focus point for the story. That said the racism stuff is still fairly light in this story and not from the same mindset (great chain of being) that Europe was either.

Racism only became prominent in the Industrial Age during the time of colonial empires; that’s when people came up with such thing as scientific racism.

That is, I am pretty sure there was an asura in my personal story that described a pretty kitten Nationalsocialistische racial hierarchy: Asura > Sylvari > Humans > Charr > Norn, I believe.

As a teacher of history (almost) that is studying the last subject, “history of art” I can give you my opinion about your post Imperios.
First: when you analyze an art piece take into account “3 different times”. The first time is the era depicted/inspired by in the piece. The second time is when it was created, the third is the one you live in. The third is important because you will always analyze the piece with the glasses of your era, and you would do so differently had you lived in another time. The first “time” is much less important than the second, the truly important one. In other words it matters more, way more when a piece was created that what time it depicts. Example: compare the art pieces of the birth of Jesus in different centuries and you will see differences in all of them because they were inspired by problematics and social insterests of different eras, (the “eras” when they were created).
If you understood the first part then let’s go on to your topic: why lesbianism seems so normal in Tyria? The answer is in the “time” (and place) it was created, on the problematic of the era when the art piece was produced and not in the time it is trying (which I don’t think they are actually trying ) to depict.
Even if the game were trying to represent Renaissance or the Industrial Era, it would be a product of the XXI century, you should understand that XXI century to start on the analysis on the characteristics of the game.
Hope I was clear enough, sorry if I wasn’t (and for typos and such) english is not my mother language

Makes sense, I guess