Guild Wars 2

Narrowly defining playing with others as grouping only is pretty fail, particularly in this game.
I buy from other players, without grouping.

I was chatting in LA, without grouping.

Yesterday I saw two players taking on the Ice Troll champion in Frostgorge, and jumped down to help. Without Grouping. Helped some noobs blast a periscope and moltens, without grouping. Did a lot of DEs, without grouping. Got mad and murdered Ice worms at the Ori node, helping other players, without grouping.

Every day I interact with other players, without grouping. So do most of us. The days of having to form a group at log in just to level are long gone for the bulk of MMOs, and good riddance.

I do not want to run Fractals Solo, or any future “stand alone” dungeons. I don’t want to run the Destiny’s Edge storyline solo. There is 5 man content, and I am sure there will continue to be. Great. Leave it out of the Living Story and Personal Story.

Do not presume to tell me I shouldn’t play an MMO without grouping. I can, I will, and I have, for the majority of my playtime, for 10 years. That is a lot of sub money, game money, and store purchasing. Like it or not, my demographic is fairly large, and spends money too.

I welcome any sort of content that encourages playing with any players, so I am happy they finally add a new dungeon besides fractals.

I believe players that argue for having everything of anything soloable have false expectations of how the gameplay experience in an MMORPG is/should be and would be much better served with the selection of great single player games out there.

This comes from someone who very rarely has the time for longer commitments to a group and has done very few dungeons and fractals because of it (20ish runs in total over more then half a year).

If another release had gone by without group content, players would have complained about the lack of group content. A release comes along with group content and players complain that they have to do group content. This thread was sadly inevitable.

And no, the game would not be better if you could get the story and rewards of each dungeon by completing 150 mind numbingly boring solo tasks in the open world instead.

raso.1372:

If you guys dont like playing with other people and you wanna do everything on your own, why are you playing an MMO? MMO’s have always been based around team play,playing with freinds,guilds,etc.. If you like playing singleplayer play a singleplayer RPG not a multiplayer game. Im on the side with the dungeons here, I would love to see more dungeons and better dungeons introduced into GW2.

I play an MMO because going out in the world, seeing large amounts of other players and working with them to complete world content is enjoyable and not encountered in a single player RPG.

I don’t have to have friends/guilds/teams/best buddies to do this. I can log in, not talk to anyone, not group with anyone and have a completely different experience to a single player RPG. For me, my schedule, that’s brilliant → thanks GW2.

I fear this is a slightly different point though.

The main point of this thread was →

Unapproachable 5 man content should not be used to finish off content that has so far been 100% casual/solo.

5 man content is great, some people love it. It should definitely be there for those that do. Not for finishing stories started in solo content though.

Mastruq.2463:

I believe players that argue for having everything of anything soloable have false expectations of how the gameplay experience in an MMORPG is/should be and would be much better served with the selection of great single player games out there.

All I want is to be able to finish the Living Story (and my Personal Story at that) with my friends, not with some random strangers who can’t be bothered to wait and just speedrun through the thing. Sadly, I only have a couple friends who play GW2 as well so it looks like we’ll be trying the dungeon with a group of three players, maybe four.

As for singleplayer games, I’ve played some, but they just end up boring me eventually – something this game doesn’t do for me.

Oh, another “I don’t participate in 50% of the content because I don’t like it so why do you keep expending it” thread !

Very, very interesting guys, really. Sociologically of course, the thread itself is useless.

Ouroboros.5076:

Oh, another “I don’t participate in 50% of the content because I don’t like it so why do you keep expending it” thread !

Very, very interesting guys, really. Sociologically of course, the thread itself is useless.

Expending it? Not sure what you mean.

Sociologically, I’d imagine it’s quite an interesting thread if you were examining human behaviour….

Like the personal story – I finished it, once. Not doing it again. Forced dungeons shouldn’t be part of something that had been primarily solo content.

Don’t get me wrong, I love online play – but forced grouping isn’t my thing. Joining a WvW battle is epic, ditto for dragons. Co-operating for a DE is a wonderful thing.

Grouping with 4 randoms, to “gogogogogo” through content? Nope.

Wish they’d have told us this sooner, so I could have just given the F&F content a miss.

Hint for ANet folks – the majority of people posting seem to be of the opinion that had it been group content from the start it wouldn’t have been an issue, and I fully agree with that. Changing the format for the finale of something is beyond lame. It approaches EA levels of game production.

MatthewMedina.5419:

a 5-man instance was really the thing that made the most sense for us to pursue, as it enabled us to best tell the conclusion to this story arc in the way that we wanted.

That sounds all well and good, but it kinda falls apart the first time someone joins a PUG with that guy who votes to kick someone because they actually want to watch the cutscenes.

darkace.8925:

MatthewMedina.5419:

a 5-man instance was really the thing that made the most sense for us to pursue, as it enabled us to best tell the conclusion to this story arc in the way that we wanted.

That sounds all well and good, but it kinda falls apart the first time someone joins a PUG with that guy who votes to kick someone because they actually want to watch the cutscenes.

If my experience in GW1 is any indication, the scene skip group will be the overwhelming majority of pugs. How they could not know this is beyond me. I feel at times the current dev crew needs a refresher course in GW1.

So.. why not do it with friends? That would solve the issue.
People keep bringing up PUGs but one would think that they would at least have made some friends during their time in GW2?
Or if you don’t have friends go with a PUG that makes it clear that they won’t skip cutscenes. Based on the amount of people here complaining about being unable to do it for the story it is quite likely that it will be rather easy to find groups doing it for the story.

darkace.8925:

MatthewMedina.5419:

a 5-man instance was really the thing that made the most sense for us to pursue, as it enabled us to best tell the conclusion to this story arc in the way that we wanted.

That sounds all well and good, but it kinda falls apart the first time someone joins a PUG with that guy who votes to kick someone because they actually want to watch the cutscenes.

This, a million times, this.

Turgon.8625:

Expending it? Not sure what you mean.

Sociologically, I’d imagine it’s quite an interesting thread if you were examining human behaviour….

Yes, I wonder what sociologists (and psychologists) would say about people like Ouroboros whose only “contribution” is to sneer at people with different tastes in a weak attempt to undermine their position without demonstrating the most basic understanding of that position? Quite a lot I’m sure.

lordkrall.7241:

So.. why not do it with friends? That would solve the issue.
People keep bringing up PUGs but one would think that they would at least have made some friends during their time in GW2?
Or if you don’t have friends go with a PUG that makes it clear that they won’t skip cutscenes. Based on the amount of people here complaining about being unable to do it for the story it is quite likely that it will be rather easy to find groups doing it for the story.

You know, I’d love to believe the second chunk of this is true, but let’s be honest; forum goers, regardless of our opinions on something, are a vanishingly small segment of any gaming community.

One possibility would be making a guild from people on the forums who are willing to do dungeon content, sit through cutscenes, and (dare I wish?) actually complete the content instead of skipping 90% of everything.

But that, there, would be something like effort, and crying on the forums is so much easier, eh? (yes, i’m picking on my own position. sue me. i’ll pick on yours too – i’m pretty equal opportunity that way.)

There was a suggestion earlier, about making it scale, so that one person could do it, and have the difficulty increase with the larger party size. That, to me, is the ideal solution. (Make it fun for everybody, as it were. I want to have fun, I want YOU to have fun, I just don’t want to be forced to have fun the way that you do, if for me it isn’t, if you follow…)

stale.9785:

There was a suggestion earlier, about making it scale, so that one person could do it, and have the difficulty increase with the larger party size. That, to me, is the ideal solution. (Make it fun for everybody, as it were. I want to have fun, I want YOU to have fun, I just don’t want to be forced to have fun the way that you do, if for me it isn’t, if you follow…)

Scaling, yes, scaling!!! I’ve suggested this in two threads already and I think it would be an ideal solution for everyone! The larger the team, the harder it gets, the better rewards you get! But still enjoyable for all ways of gaming and not being forced to do something you don’t like!
I hate being forced to group! And always 1-2 friends I hold dear are online, which means I have to pug most of the dungeons, and my friends too do not like that. At least spare story from this…story should be something one could enjoy without being tensed, stressed or bullied…

As you can all tell, not all of us are the same and not all of us like to be forced to team up.
Consider this, before ’’attacking’’ us and saying that we should go play some RPG instead.
I like relaxed way of gaming and I do not need ANY stressful time in dungeons with random people. I have stopped doing them a while ago and only one of my characters has all story modes done…I am finding it ridiculous how we have to be in a team of 5 to complete the story mode…especially now because hardly anyone is doing them.

Like stated above, scaling would be an ideal solution.

And how would scaling work if the mechanics of the boss fight is based on teamwork? (Much like the new Ghost Eater)

Teofa Tsavo.9863:

I do not want to run Fractals Solo, or any future “stand alone” dungeons. I don’t want to run the Destiny’s Edge storyline solo. There is 5 man content, and I am sure there will continue to be. Great. Leave it out of the Living Story and Personal Story.

I doubt that’s gonna happen, and I don’t think many people want that to happen either. The living story tells the story of the world, and the world of Tyria has many dungeons to explore. That’s not to say that everything Living story should end in a dungeon. But I would hate to see them close of the option because a select few can’t stand dungeons.

I guess you will miss out on a tiny part of it, because as far as I’m concerned Living story is just as optional as everything else.

lordkrall.7241:

And how would scaling work if the mechanics of the boss fight is based on teamwork? (Much like the new Ghost Eater)

GW2 has no need of teamwork because every profession (and thus, every player) is capable of supplying its own DPS, healing, and CC and is therefore its own team. Content requiring multiple players is contradictory to the very core of the game’s innovative design. Certainly, multiple players should be allowed to play through any and all content together – this is an MMO, after all – but grouping should be an option, not a requirement.

Tachenon.5270:

GW2 has no need of teamwork because every profession (and thus, every player) is capable of supplying its own DPS, healing, and CC and is therefore its own team. Content requiring multiple players is contradictory to the very core of the game’s innovative design. Certainly, multiple players should be allowed to play through any and all content together – this is an MMO, after all – but grouping should be an option, not a requirement.

I suppose you never actually did AC Ghost Eater path after the update then? Good luck doing that one without teamwork.

While I am very disappointed, at least they told us early on. At least now I can disengage from this particular content and find something else to do before I have boatloads of time, energy, and enthusiasm invested.

Scaling is not a solution here.

As has already been pointed out – more complex, team based mechanics can be used with more players and specifically, a number of players that the dev team know in advance.

Developing content to scale from 1 to however many players is always going to be a slightly dumbed down experience.

The solution, as I have already suggested, is to keep dungeons away from the finale of a storyline that has mostly consisted of casual content. They can be there, but as a separate story piece that adds to but is not required to complete the story experience.

Turgon.8625:

Scaling is not a solution here.

As has already been pointed out – more complex, team based mechanics can be used with more players and specifically, a number of players that the dev team know in advance.

Developing content to scale from 1 to however many players is always going to be a slightly dumbed down experience.

The solution, as I have already suggested, is to keep dungeons away from the finale of a storyline that has mostly consisted of casual content. They can be there, but as a separate story piece that adds to but is not required to complete the story experience.

I agree with this, totally.

lordkrall.7241:

And how would scaling work if the mechanics of the boss fight is based on teamwork? (Much like the new Ghost Eater)

You simplify (“dumb down” if you want to call it that) the boss fights for fewer players. Solo becomes a casual mode, players wanting more of a challenge go in larger groups. Altering encounters like this is done in other MMOs, in wow raids, for example, they have regular and heroic modes, 10 and 25 man instances the mechanics of boss encounters change between them all.

FrizzFreston.5290:

Teofa Tsavo.9863:

I do not want to run Fractals Solo, or any future “stand alone” dungeons. I don’t want to run the Destiny’s Edge storyline solo. There is 5 man content, and I am sure there will continue to be. Great. Leave it out of the Living Story and Personal Story.

I doubt that’s gonna happen, and I don’t think many people want that to happen either. The living story tells the story of the world, and the world of Tyria has many dungeons to explore. That’s not to say that everything Living story should end in a dungeon. But I would hate to see them close of the option because a select few can’t stand dungeons.

I guess you will miss out on a tiny part of it, because as far as I’m concerned Living story is just as optional as everything else.

Logging in is also optional. Going to Target and plunking down 25 US for a gem card is also optional. If I feel the “select few”, as you put it, are being ignored, I can explore other options. Prior to that, I will express my concerns here, on the venue provided.

I have 9 Characters who will not do the Personal Storyline after their Order choice, because I know that continuing is a waste since I will not buy into forced grouping. I’m fine with that, because I know. Had I known this Living Story would devolve into just another excuse to force 5 man pugging, I would not have bothered with it from the start. I object to them changing the structure mid stream.

And I think the “select few” are more than you realize.

Teofa Tsavo.9863:

Well, only a matter of time till the “M in MMO” crowd showed up. Multiplayer does not mean “forced to group”, that went out with Brad McQuaid. There are many viable reasons to play an online multiplayer game, and grouping is only one of them. For myself, I play MMOs because of persistant worlds and other social interactions, when I adventure I prefer to go alone.

People who don’t care for the “round up 4 strangers and have fun” content are not friendless social pariahs, believe it or not. It is a choice of playstyle, not an indication of personality.

GW1 was pretty flexible. You could do group content with 7 people, 4, 3, 2 or Solo, using Heros to fill. One of the best parts of that game, it allowed many choices.

This is “no choice”. I don’t feel this is appropriate for stories that are either supposed to be “personal”, or supposed to be inclusive of most players like a major story line.

The DE events for the Karka event didn’t work out well, but that does not mean the concept should be tossed. Bringing the population together to solve a “living” problem is a great concept. A 5 man dungeon.. meh.. nothing new, nothing special, and nothing interesting.

I agree – I like MMOs because of the persistent world, and because I like the feel of a living world with actual people in it. Adventuring I do solo. I have plenty of RL friends and a fairly busy life – I’m not looking to make friends in-game, and am primarily playing to have fun.

Fun means less annoying periscopes, forced grouping as an end to solo content, and so forth. Parts of the living story I’ve ignored so far, because I don’t have time for boring, grindy content. If I’m going to spend time on it, I have to be able to follow through, and have fun.

I wish the “but it’s multiplayer!” people would, well… can it, frankly. When they say that, they’re trying to use definition to control what an MMO is. There are different tracks to the game, and I respect that: WvW (which I do sometimes dig on the weekends) is a big-group activity. If you like doing dungeons, group up. Most world PVE content is solo-able, and if bits aren’t (the occasional champion or hard event) you can bypass it if there’s no one around, and still finish. To me, that sounds like a mission statement.

Tossing forced grouping into a solo “track” screws a subset of people who basically like to play by themselves. I can usually carve out 30 minutes or so to play at a time, maybe an hour on the weekends. I don’t have time to stand around, begging for a PUG and hoping it doesn’t blow up in my face, so I ignore instances.

I do think there’s room for multiple players and play styles – or there should be – but there are clear lines between those styles, and those need to be respected by the designers. It’s not cool to dangle content in front of me – personal stories, living story – and then end it with something I’m unlikely to do. Haven’t we moved past that sort of thinking?

Pifil.5193:

lordkrall.7241:

And how would scaling work if the mechanics of the boss fight is based on teamwork? (Much like the new Ghost Eater)

You simplify (“dumb down” if you want to call it that) the boss fights for fewer players. Solo becomes a casual mode, players wanting more of a challenge go in larger groups. Altering encounters like this is done in other MMOs, in wow raids, for example, they have regular and heroic modes, 10 and 25 man instances the mechanics of boss encounters change between them all.

Sounds great, I bet it has a massive development cost attached to it though.

Teofa Tsavo.9863:

And I think the “select few” are more than you realize.

Amen to this. Players that have the most time, also have the most time to express what they want on the forums. I think there’s a… dare I say it, “massive” percentage of players out there who play like I do, but rarely post. I’ve been playing since the game came out, and I think this is the first time I’ve made time to look at the forums, and it’s only because I’m frustrated.

It’s also worth noting that the ones – like me – who don’t have time to post a lot and devote a huge amount of time to things like grouping? Not to put too fine a point on it, but it’s because I have a full-time job, i.e. money to spend on the game… or not.

Pifil.5193:

MatthewMedina.5419:

I understand the concerns about jumping into a 5-man instance if you’re more accustomed to solo play – in fact as a player I typically share those feelings, so rest assured that such concerns have been and continue to be addressed firsthand by our team!

How exactly they are addressing those concerns when they introduce another 5-man instance to end a story arc remains to be seen but you can be sure it’s not by introducing a dungeon that will require “teamwork” to complete.

actually this is a good question

Turgon.8625:

Pifil.5193:

You simplify (“dumb down” if you want to call it that) the boss fights for fewer players. Solo becomes a casual mode, players wanting more of a challenge go in larger groups. Altering encounters like this is done in other MMOs, in wow raids, for example, they have regular and heroic modes, 10 and 25 man instances the mechanics of boss encounters change between them all.

Sounds great, I bet it has a massive development cost attached to it though.

I’m not so sure that it would have.

Imagine you have a boss who is immune to damage and must be lured into a particular area by a player so that two other players can flip a switch that makes him vulnerable so that everyone can damage him for 30 seconds. Then he becomes immune again and must be lured to a different area.

The solo version of that boss could be a boss who is immune to damage and must be lured into a particular area by a player and entering that area makes him vulnerable so that he can be damaged for 30 seconds. Then he becomes immune again and must be lured to a different area.

So in this case the complicated, multi-player part is the costly part, and the simplified solo version part is about removing some of those complexities. The scripts for the complicated version could be “stripped down” to make the simpler one.

Mobs would also have to be scaled down too, less damage, less health and so on.

Now that’s easier said than done, of course, but with a bit of planning and forethought in the design process it shouldn’t be too costly.

I guess we can both speculate at dev cost but neither us know the actual answer.

Can go on the shelf of suggestions for Anet.

Teofa Tsavo.9863:

Logging in is also optional. Going to Target and plunking down 25 US for a gem card is also optional. If I feel the “select few”, as you put it, are being ignored, I can explore other options. Prior to that, I will express my concerns here, on the venue provided.

I have 9 Characters who will not do the Personal Storyline after their Order choice, because I know that continuing is a waste since I will not buy into forced grouping. I’m fine with that, because I know. Had I known this Living Story would devolve into just another excuse to force 5 man pugging, I would not have bothered with it from the start. I object to them changing the structure mid stream.

And I think the “select few” are more than you realize.

I don’t feel that living story should be served around solo players. I understand more than you think. But you’re basically preaching leaving any kind of dungeon or 5 man instance out of the Living Story because you don’t like it. So far the two story instances have been very solo friendly. And I’m sure there will be more of that account, and hopefully more events, more world content. I’m not saying that they should focus on doing only dungeons either.

I think the Living Story if this is teaser content as they say it, should have multiple story instances and perhaps one dungeon alongside each other. With, if possible, multiple stories happening at the same time. I will have to see if they can pull that off.

Because you simply refuse to play anything 5-man content at all, not even giving it a chance at all, also means you have less of an idea what you’re talking about. It’s an MMO and teamplay, group play is very much part of the Living story as much as story content is.

I can agree as is said before that dungeon content is perhaps not the best idea for a final event. (It’s closed of, not exactly part of the world, then again dredge and flame legion are operating underground, so a dungeon just makes sense)

What I think is harder to pull off is an event where the dredge and flame legion actually take over certain parts of the map and give more a sense of fighting a war with this molten alliance. Then again it’s not their style. All in all, to have the living story have an actual impact, they can’t simply abolish the use of dungeon-like material.

I’m very much against the close minded level of thinking “I do not play a certain type of content” for that matter, because it limits the way the story can be told. The game simply cannot be only putting out one type of content because certain people might or might not like it.

I don’t understand the argument “if you don’t want to play with others, stay away from MMO’s”. Nobody here is saying that the dungeons shouldn’t be there nor is anyone against group play. The finale of a story arc (which has been solo content all the time) cannot be a group activity. Keep those separate. Let a player play his own story, not share it with others. I don’t think it is that difficult to grasp/comprehend. Sure bring a new dungeon with every new update, but keep it separate from the main story being told.

Ledha.9640:

Pirlipat.2479:

I am very disappointed by this decission. Two months of teaser-content, one month with really nice content and then bam hide the end of the story in a dungeon which I can’t play because I wont PUG with some random guys who only care for the shinies and give a … about cutscenes or a story.

Do you know you are a random PUG yourself for every other players ?

People who complain about others players and don’t have the balls to make a five-man dungeon during one hour… you shouldn’t play an mmo

Since when did mmo’s become all about running 5-8man instance dungeons?

This is the exact kind of attitude that makes me not want to do dungeons. I wish my friends irl enjoyed PC games, then I woudl def consider dungeons.

I have no problem with grouping in open world gw2, and in past mmorpgs I’ve played, shoot, in the old days of daoc. If you didn’t group you probably weren’t going to hit 50, or at least it would take you over a year.

But dungeons, noooo, I generally don’t like the attitudes, and mentality bring in there. I know it’s not all bad, I’ve meet some friendly people, but instanced dungeons are something I generally don’t want to deal with.

Aside from all I just said, I’ll check out the Flame and Frost dungeon when it comes out.

Marcus Greythorne.6843:

I’d suggest to make the cutscenes only skippable, if everyone in the group skips it. And do not show who doesn’t hit the skip-button.

The only guarantee people wait for each other in pugs.

I second this. It’s really the only sure-fire way that the cinematic will be experienced by the newest member of the group. It’ll annoy the most impatient type; but if that one person doesn’t want to see the cinematics anymore, then that one should party with other people who don’t care about cinematics. Also: watching the same cinematic on YouTube is not the same experience than actually participating in it in-game.

Come to think of it, that’s how it was like in GW1, except it showed “X out of Y wants to skip this cutscene” but the cutscene would not skip unless everyone wanted to skip it.

As with the mobs, they shouldn’t be too annoying to kill. Otherwise, people are just going to be royally annoyed (or at least the intended audience for this particular dungeon). I’d say the trash mobs in Fractals was a good step in the right direction so I hope the mobs there aren’t as annoying in this new dungeon. Having those same mobs drop something of interest would also be cool. If you don’t want people to skip them, I’d say make them so that they can’t be de-aggroed upon engaging just like most dungeons in other MMOs.

Some things to consider is that most experienced dungeons runners in GW2 have been trained to actually run, skip, past, and dodge everything that seems skippable. If they can dodge a wrench, then 99.9% of the time, those same people can dodge, duck, dip, dive, and dodge a small group of mobs! This game actually promotes the act of in-game Parkour, so any hardcore-ish methods of preventing the act of skipping would actually be a welcoming thing for the groups wanting to experience the story without dealing with the grief that others may bring because they normally skip the cutscenes.

If I tried to make the content based on this thread, I would do it like this:

Split the ending into 2 different parts.

Why?

Players can choose which part they would like to do. They can either:
1) Group up with friends and do the dungeon
or
2) Play a solo instance that give the sense that the player is helping out those in the dungeon. (Example: In the soloable instance the player finds an important generator or supply line outside of the dungeon that aids the Molten Alliance and helped NPCs take them out. Inside the dungeon, part of the story would show a cutscene of these things taking place like an explosion near a wall. This would give a sense that the group inside the dungeon is seeing that they are getting help from the outside (solo players).)

Let me make this clear, these 2 options are totally separate and are not done together. The cutscenes are in place to give the sense of helping out those that are grouping in the dungeon, and those in the dungeon get that good feeling that they are being helped by the outside.

The end of both the dungeon and the solo instance will drop you out at a location where everyone is there to celebrate the destruction of the Molten Alliance. (And an npc merchant with stuff to buy)

I’m not good at explaining examples, but hopefully somebody can translate.

phaneo.4597:

I don’t understand the argument “if you don’t want to play with others, stay away from MMO’s”. Nobody here is saying that the dungeons shouldn’t be there nor is anyone against group play. The finale of a story arc (which has been solo content all the time) cannot be a group activity. Keep those separate. Let a player play his own story, not share it with others. I don’t think it is that difficult to grasp/comprehend. Sure bring a new dungeon with every new update, but keep it separate from the main story being told.

I don’t think many people understand this, even though perhaps the two story instances gave that impression:

Living story is not (just) an extension of personal story.

It’s not intended to be a single player thing, It’s not something that only plays out in instances where the player plays alone. (and neither has it been solo content the whole time.)

Living story encompasses all areas of the game, which includes dungeons, includes personal story like instances and includes events. And for a fitting ending I believe they should’ve hit on all those areas for the finale, so that there’s something for everyone. (plus it’ll feel grander and more climactic)

You forgot a jumping puzzle or two, a trip to the SAB, and 5 uses of the Mystic Forge and crafting something. Ya know, grander, and something for everyone.

Group required for all, of course.

And I love love people who always know what the Developer intentions are, and can speak for them. It must take a big load off the real Developers.

I understand peoples pain here. As I have always felt really uncomfortable trying to do story dungeons with strangers and actually wanting to see the cutscenes. After the 2nd one I just opted to skip them and watch the cutscenes on youtube (I shouldn’t really have to do this sadly…granted I wouldn’t have to if I didn’t PuG).

I think the choice should exist in the future honestly, but its up to the developers and how they want to portray their story and content. I can’t argue about that.

That said, I haven’t ever really had any issues getting groups for holiday content in the past. Granted I am usually able to play within the first day. And there are a lot of people around the entrances or LA looking for groups for it. Never had a bad experience with it either other then the issue of if the leader drops group we get booted happened once or twice.

Way I see it, there are plenty of other people like me and others in this thread that are leery or uncomfortable with group play for whatever reason. Or just don’t have the proper time/want to enjoy it fully, etc etc. We know we are playing an MMO, so don’t need to go on about that. But that said, there are other people that feel the same way that need a group too for the dungeon. So if all the people that would normally solo/not have a group expressed their want for a group when the dungeon occurs then there should be no problems really. (Also sorry if that doesn’t make sense)

It’s not like this is the usual daily dungeon runs anyways. Everyone is there for the same goal. Want to experience the content/story. Most won’t rush through it unless they have done it a couple of times. But if you express that you haven’t done it before most people will understand, if they don’t want to then they can leave and you can find someone else that doesn’t mind. Good thing about MMOs is there is always more people to choose from.

If you think forcing dungeons on players is a good idea, just try forcing WvW and PvP on players to complete content and see what happens!

Sola.7250:

If you think forcing dungeons on players is a good idea, just try forcing WvW and PvP on players to complete content and see what happens!

This is true, a lot of people aren’t happy that WvW is required for map completion, never mind legendary completion.

I have dungeons many many times with PUG¨’s not once have a PUG ever been rude at me, and i’m playing a necro!, a few says “necros are bad in dungeons” then i prove them wrong quite often when i ress them over and over, speed runs for CoF is usually where the worst people are, but for the rest of the dungeons there is no problem really.

Also, Living Story is finishing with a dungeon because it’s been all about working together as a team/whatever to stop the molten alliance, i have watched all stories in all dungeons so far, i just say from the start “i want to see it”, and in my guild we’re a few that actually play together to see things/stories, there’s loads of people that hate PUG’ing, that is where special guilds come into play, there are many out there who don’t like PUG’ing and have made a guild to make sure they don’t do it but that they rather team up with eachother that can take it slow.

There are so many options to overcome this “challenge” by solo players, so so many, you are just not looking for it enough apparently, even then, and i know it’s not what you want, but if it is so much against you to do a dungeon in this game, especially for the end of The Living Story, then watch in on youtube when it come out, you can see it in so many ways but you are just in the mental state of “me me me me me me”, if i don’t get what i want they should change the entire game!

Please just enjoy the game and find likeminded people and you will have a great time in the game.

I love me some 5-man group content. Of course, that’s probably because I have a guild that I’ve been helping run for over 4 months now. And a friend’s list full of people who I don’t know at all but have run with in PUGS, found both competent and quite nice, and have requested they be my friends who I run around with from time to time. And real life friends who play the game. And general social skills and patience enough to wait for a good group to come around. And the ability to make my own group and know that since it’s an event group, the first few days people will be swarming to try it out.

So running a 5-man dungeon is never a huge issue for me. I enjoy that they are adding content that people can’t just solo their way through. So I’m going to voice a dissenting opinion and say go ANet for this.

Yes it’s unfair to the people who refuse to group with others, but that’s a choice you have made and they have made a choice to actively exclude you from some content. Sorry to say, but that’s like someone who isn’t in a guild complaining about how they can’t do a guild bounty.

Plus if you only have 2 other friends, I’m pretty sure you can 3 man the thing. Or even 2 man it if you’re good enough. Just probably not solo. Lord knows dungeons are harder when I 3-man them but they’re not impossible at all. Just require more precision and team work.

But regardless, if you run in to a bad PUG, stop being impatient about PUGs and start your own. Make good contacts. Make friends. Find people who WILL do the content with you. Join a guild. Enjoy the multi-faceted game for all of its facets, not just the ones that you are comfortable with.

Most of the game is solo, why Can’t the rest of us have this new dungeon?

Teofa Tsavo.9863:

And I love love people who always know what the Developer intentions are, and can speak for them. It must take a big load off the real Developers.

Sorry to trample on your fanfare but, it’s called reading. >_>

Leif Chapelle

What’s Next?

I’ve outlined a number of ways that we’ve approached aspects the Living World story: achievements, events, and instances. Yet we have a whole game’s worth of systems at our disposal.

In the coming months, you may see the Living World story play out from any number of approaches: activities, dungeons, crafting, or others.

SourceLink

Please, stop with this “we’re being forced to dungeon” or “A.Net forces us to do gameplay we don’t want to do” stuff. It’s nonsense. You’re not forced to do anything you don’t want to do. The only things that you’re ‘forced to do’ is abide by your local government’s laws and die (time forces that on all); that’s about it.

What do I mean? Well, if you don’t like a dungeon, DO NOT RUN THE DUNGEON. But, if you want to do a story, want to get a specific piece of gear, want to experience a specific piece of content, then it’s YOUR WANTS that are pushing you towards a specific type of content. The content is predetermined by the development team, they make it, they design it, in an MMO world (key point there is the “MMO” part).

If you ‘want’ to have solo content where there is multiplayer content: too bad. Bloody honest truth there is that your ‘wants’ don’t really matter. You’re a minority while the majority of players are playing this game with guildmates, friends, family, and PUGs for the enjoyment of social interaction.

But, that’s still the glorious thing about it. If you don’t want to do this new dungeon, nobody is forcing you to do it. If you want to experience it, only then it is your individual self that is pushing you into it, and thus into the group dungeon style.

(Sorry if I became repetitive in those paragraphs, but some don’t really get the point.)

Siphaed.9235:

Please, stop with this “we’re being forced to dungeon” or “A.Net forces us to do gameplay we don’t want to do” stuff. It’s nonsense. You’re not forced to do anything you don’t want to do.

(Sorry if I became repetitive in those paragraphs, but some don’t really get the point.)

Ironic that you’re one of those who really doesn’t get the point. The point is this: IF you want to see the ending of the Living Story, content that people have been soloing so far, THEN you’re forced to group. The point is: with the switch in style at the end some people will never get to see that end.

That’s what people are complaining about. Not that ArenaNet are going to come around to their houses and force them to do content they don’t want to.

Please don’t assume that you speak for the majority or know what the majority want. It’s a complete fallacy: you’re not an expert on the matter, you have no special knowledge here, you know no more about what the majority wants than I or anyone else does. You only know what you want and maybe what some people in your guild want.

The only people in a position to figure out if this is what the majority actually want are ArenaNet, they’re the ones who could (and should) gather metrics on how many people completed the content up to the dungeon so far and how many of those complete the actual dungeon.

If those numbers are pretty close then fair enough, it’s what the majority want, if not then they need to rethink their tactics.

All those that shout about being forced to dungeon:
Should I require that Arah Explorable Mode gets soloable aswell? I do want the lore in there after all, but I can’t find a group that is interested in doing it for the lore so I won’t be able to see it ingame.

The fact that you can solo the personal story up to the final dungeon is exactly what is wrong with it, in my opinion. It should have been more like GW1 where you needed to group and do missions. This is an MMO.

Pugging has it’s problems but is a generic issue to do with all dungeons.
Story/Cinematics skipping is a problem but is a generic issue to do with all dungeons.
Story experience polluted by other people is a problem but is a generic issue to do with all dungeons.

These problems distract from the actual issue raised here. The issue is the position of the dungeon itself.

I don’t have a problem with AC’s existence even though I dislike the gameplay as I didn’t have to play it to understand my personal story. It is a side story.

Arah story mode grates with me because I do not want to go anywhere near dungeons yet it is the conclusion of my solo story.

For the same reason, this Molten dungeon frustrates me because it is essential to understanding the solo story I have played so far. No matter how ‘like-minded’ a group of people I find to play it with me, I don’t want them there. I wouldn’t want my best R/L friends there. I want to read my book in isolation thankyou.

I am not of the opinion that dungeons should all have 1 player mode. Or that they shouldn’t be added in patches. I just don’t want the end of my solo stories.

I hope I enjoy it, but that is my concern.

lordkrall.7241:

All those that shout about being forced to dungeon:
Should I require that Arah Explorable Mode gets soloable aswell? I do want the lore in there after all, but I can’t find a group that is interested in doing it for the lore so I won’t be able to see it ingame.

Why shouldn’t it be solo-able? I say make it so that those who prefer running solo and those who prefer running with a group (of 2, 3, 5, 8 players and maybe more!) can both enjoy the content. That would be some innovative stuff.