Guild Wars 2

Congratulations on beating her! I am still working on it. I didn’t keep track of how many times I have tried, but it’s a whole lot :/ If I manage to make it to the second phase (rare for me so far), the orbs and floors get me.

I watched an awesome Necro beat her yesterday. It was amazing. She was very good.

Seriously the only mini i have made a point to use =D ^

Troll detected. Containment procedures recommended.

Nilkemia.8507:

Troll detected. Containment procedures recommended.

Why do you say that? Myself, as well as a few of my RL friends 100% agree with OP’s statement.

Heizero.9183:

Nilkemia.8507:

Troll detected. Containment procedures recommended.

Why do you say that? Myself, as well as a few of my RL friends 100% agree with OP’s statement.

I’ve noticed it’s the default response from certain people on this forum.

If Liadra was in a bigger arena without the camera problems and the AoE was a little more visible, there’d be zero problems with the fight.

It’s challenging, it requires you to consciously observe the patterns of her attacks and devise a strategy unique to her.

I might say increase the time limit by 30-45 seconds to be fair for people who aren’t zerking but largely it’s just a matter of practise and coordination.

Heizero.9183:

Nilkemia.8507:

Troll detected. Containment procedures recommended.

Why do you say that? Myself, as well as a few of my RL friends 100% agree with OP’s statement.

Well, I disagree. I think that Queen’s Gauntlet was a good idea done horribly wrong and that anyone who claims that Liadri was well designed or a good challenge is lying, trolling, or insane, but that’s just my opinion, what would I know?

If this is a preview of what’s to come, things seem to be going downhill. One hit kills and gimmicky invulnerability on bosses are not fun and interesting, just cheap ways to kill and frustrate the player.

If all the instakill dross happening around the arena was part of the boss herself, I would agree with you. But it isn’t. You spend the entire fight battling the environment, rather than the boss.

Am I proud that I defeated her? Yes.

Do I wish the fight was more about the boss and less about fighting environmental effects? Yes.

Here’s how i felt.

Oh my god one shotted, well i didnt learn my lesson okay next time.

Dang oh well, i like learning curve bosses let me try again.

Oh so wait i can walk through the middle boss? oh god if i knew that earlier

Nope, well i can beat her eventually, as a lover of dark souls i can beat her as long as i try.

100+ tries, about 40 of them being bugged glitched, minor lagg interfering too

Eye twitch

Nilkemia.8507:

Heizero.9183:

Nilkemia.8507:

Troll detected. Containment procedures recommended.

Why do you say that? Myself, as well as a few of my RL friends 100% agree with OP’s statement.

Well, I disagree. I think that Queen’s Gauntlet was a good idea done horribly wrong and that anyone who claims that Liadri was well designed or a good challenge is lying, trolling, or insane, but that’s just my opinion, what would I know?

If this is a preview of what’s to come, things seem to be going downhill. One hit kills and gimmicky invulnerability on bosses are not fun and interesting, just cheap ways to kill and frustrate the player.

The OHKO attacks are only part of the fight, and are very systematic. I had more trouble sustaining my Thief against the constant Weakness and multitudes of smaller hits once she was exposed, to be honest.

She’s a great challenge. Once you know what to do, it’s fairly smooth sailing, barring a few issues with the camera in that arena.

Quarktastic.1027:

If all the instakill dross happening around the arena was part of the boss herself, I would agree with you. But it isn’t. You spend the entire fight battling the environment, rather than the boss.

Am I proud that I defeated her? Yes.

Do I wish the fight was more about the boss and less about fighting environmental effects? Yes.

Disagree. The “environment” is a direct form of attack from the boss herself. Everything you are competing against is the boss.

If the entire fight was focused around her person alone, she’d probably end up with Defiant stacks. I like the back-and-forth nature of this kind of fight.

Auesis.7301:

Nilkemia.8507:

Heizero.9183:

Nilkemia.8507:

Troll detected. Containment procedures recommended.

Why do you say that? Myself, as well as a few of my RL friends 100% agree with OP’s statement.

Well, I disagree. I think that Queen’s Gauntlet was a good idea done horribly wrong and that anyone who claims that Liadri was well designed or a good challenge is lying, trolling, or insane, but that’s just my opinion, what would I know?

If this is a preview of what’s to come, things seem to be going downhill. One hit kills and gimmicky invulnerability on bosses are not fun and interesting, just cheap ways to kill and frustrate the player.

The OHKO attacks are only part of the fight, and are very systematic. I had more trouble sustaining my Thief against the constant Weakness and multitudes of smaller hits once she was exposed, to be honest.

She’s a great challenge. Once you know what to do, it’s fairly smooth sailing, barring a few issues with the camera in that arena.

Only part of the fight? One hit kill AoE that is near constant and one hit clones that constantly spawn and follow you are just “part” of the fight? No.

Funny that, I’ve read up on her attacks and even seen a video or two, but since I can’t even get past the first phase, I guess I just suck then, right? Whatever.

She’s not a great challenge. Just awful design that needs to be thrown away and never brought back.

Yes, only part of the fight. She isn’t even a threat until you expose her with 3 orbs – her auto attack isn’t that strong and simply strafing repeatedly will stop it ever hitting you. The AoE always attacks a specific quadrant, and never the same place twice. The clones are incredibly slow and easy to kite, and if too many start spawning during the second phase, you can kite towards white lights to dispose of them. Just a small amount of situational awareness will guarantee you up to phase 2, where the same principle applies, only with someone actually attacking you in a threatening manner. Then, she isn’t invulnerable to CC and interrupts.

Phase 1 is the phase nobody should be worried about. Phase 2 is when a slip-up will leave you with a huge amount of Weakness, and if you can’t cleanse it, you’ll be in trouble.

You forgot: “One mistake and you’re dead, so you’d better be perfect! Or be lucky.”

I quite like the idea behind the gauntlet, and I think the fight with Liadri would be quite fun were it not for the constant frustration of being one hit KO’d and having to queue up to start all over again.

Also, I must say that I quite enjoyed the gauntlet as a whole. Going up against all those different bosses each with their own unique strategies was very well done. I kind of wish there was a bit more incentive to repeat some of those fights, perhaps in the way of gold, karma, or crafting material rewards. Because those fights were a lot more interesting than farming with the loot train in the main pavilion area.

Thomassassinate.9370:

Here’s how i felt.

Oh my god one shotted, well i didnt learn my lesson okay next time.

Dang oh well, i like learning curve bosses let me try again.

Oh so wait i can walk through the middle boss? oh god if i knew that earlier

Nope, well i can beat her eventually, as a lover of dark souls i can beat her as long as i try.

100+ tries, about 40 of them being bugged glitched, minor lagg interfering too

Eye twitch

As a lover of DS you know you can do it then. I looked at it like that. Every one of my deaths was cause I neglected something.

The fight is hard because of the horrible camera, being unable to see the red properly on the stupid floor, and the illusions not moving bug. NOT a great fight at all.

Auesis.7301:

Quarktastic.1027:

If all the instakill dross happening around the arena was part of the boss herself, I would agree with you. But it isn’t. You spend the entire fight battling the environment, rather than the boss.

Am I proud that I defeated her? Yes.

Do I wish the fight was more about the boss and less about fighting environmental effects? Yes.

Disagree. The “environment” is a direct form of attack from the boss herself. Everything you are competing against is the boss.

If the entire fight was focused around her person alone, she’d probably end up with Defiant stacks. I like the back-and-forth nature of this kind of fight.

The boss doesn’t cast these attacks, nor does she directly summon the clones. Where does one draw the line between “boss mechanic” and “environmental effect?”

i was really hyped for queen’s gauntlet, because it reminded me a lot of the lion’s arch arena story arc in edge of destiny, and it did not disappoint.

the fights were unique and interesting, required skill and understanding of your own class’ pros and cons, as well as the tools you have. they were challenging, but they never really felt cheap (not even liadri). watching the other players and discussing with them added this really nice sense of community to it too.

THAT SAID, grinding for tokens was a real pain and not having a waypoint to the second floor (or even a good indication that the second floor could be reached by walking) added too much downtime between fights.

Quarktastic.1027:

Auesis.7301:

Quarktastic.1027:

If all the instakill dross happening around the arena was part of the boss herself, I would agree with you. But it isn’t. You spend the entire fight battling the environment, rather than the boss.

Am I proud that I defeated her? Yes.

Do I wish the fight was more about the boss and less about fighting environmental effects? Yes.

Disagree. The “environment” is a direct form of attack from the boss herself. Everything you are competing against is the boss.

If the entire fight was focused around her person alone, she’d probably end up with Defiant stacks. I like the back-and-forth nature of this kind of fight.

The boss doesn’t cast these attacks, nor does she directly summon the clones. Where does one draw the line between “boss mechanic” and “environmental effect?”

who’s to say she’s not summoning the clones or casting down the spell? just because she’s throwing her autoattack at you doesn’t mean she can’t cast other spells without doing a random animation. liadri’s clearly a powerful spellcaster, i’m sure she can multitask.

i mean, it looks like spells, the clones are, well, clones, and they directly influence the battle, so why shouldn’t it be considered a boss mechanic?

the problem is that you’re trying to draw a nonexistent line. even if those spells were not liadri’s doing, it would still be a boss mechanic. level design is just as important for a boss as their attacks. matter of fact, most of demon’s/dark souls (games revered for their quality, challenge and excellent boss fights) bosses make excellent use of well-crafted levels to make fights more interesting.

Cause getting one shot is “interesting and new boss mechanic” rofl

Number one problem with this fight is visual clarity.

1. The dome shaped arena limits the camera, making it hard to see
2. Multiple AoE indicators for a single attack making it hard to tell where safe zones are
3. Mesh floor making AoE indicators more difficult to see
4. Blinding effects when post-processing is on
5. AoE effects come from above, where they serve little visual use in a third-person game where you spend the majority of your time looking downward other than occasionally blocking the player’s view

It shouldn’t be nearly as difficult as it is to spot where you need to go to survive.

Personally, I don’t mind one-hit-kill mechanisms but I think where it tips over from challenging to frustrating is when there are two to contend with.

The ground AoE and the Visions of Mortality together were problematic and destroyed much of the enjoyment for me. Either would have been fine on their own.

In the end, (after about 50+ attempts,) I finally beat her but it was through sheer bloody-mindedness that I did so and it was not a pleasurable experience. Fun and anger do not mix well together!

Still, the mini is quite cool and defeating her did finish the achievement for me.

Frostedblaze.9017:

And it did it using interesting and new boss mechanics.

Congrats on beating her but if you consider the one-shots interesting boss mechanics you need to play some games that actually bother on implementing AI. I agree on the fact that it’s different that a punch-bag boss and I guess that makes it more fun for you, but how a room full of AoEs and mobs that down you instantly is “interesting” is beyond me.

My biggest gripe is the fake difficulty of it all.

#1: The camera. It is extremely limited, making it so you can’t see what is going on. Half the fight is zoomed on the back of my character’s head.
#2: The random object pull. This would be fine if we could see the whole field, and that stupid pulling orb wouldn’t get “obstructed” every time you attacked it. But, game glitches and camera angles, ho! It isn’t like the random pull isn’t pure RNG here.
#3: One hit kill mechanics are never fun. They just discriminate against builds.
#4: The grates on the ground make it so you can’t see the AoE circles that well. In the second phase of the fight, I basically have to guess whenever I’m in an AoE or not.
#5: OH THE LAG! This comes from two sources.
a)Zone lag. Due to the large amount of people zerging this area at 3:00 AM, every action you take can have anywhere from a 0.5 to 1 second delay on it. Because of this, you’ll end up squatting stationary in on area trying to pick up an orb of light, resulting in death.
b)There are huge lag spikes that delay the game 5-10 seconds, and you get these every few minutes. If you get one in the fight, fight is over.
#6: Time limit. Due to the extremely limited space of the gauntlet, to make it so no on can abuse the “whole server shares 6 domes” system they made, they put a time limit in the fight, so you have to rush ahead to beat the bosses when the smart thing to do otherwise would’ve been to wait for a better opportunity. Again, this just discriminates against builds.
#7: It is punishing and expensive. The truffle soups are 30 silver each, and you have to pay to get more tickets, and then you have to pay the repair bill. On average, each “fight” costs about 10 silver. Worst part is when people don’t rez you, and you have to run throughout the entire map to get another shot, getting more people to queue up before you and wasting more time off of food bonuses.

It isn’t challenging. It isn’t fun. The biggest difficulty with the whole thing seems to be that the event is horribly designed. All it Liadri is, is expensive and frustrating. To this point, after 30 or so tries, I’ve just given up. I’ve blown way more money than I would earn by defeating Liadri, and I’m not spending another cent or wasting another hour on the grind to complete this event.

You know what was challenging? Molten Facility. Aetherblade Retreat. And they weren’t challenging because you couldn’t see anything.

The above post pretty much summed up why this boss is awful design and nothing more. I’ll just throw away the gauntlet tickets from now on, since I can’t sell them or at least give them to someone else.

Piriel.5197:

Frostedblaze.9017:

And it did it using interesting and new boss mechanics.

Congrats on beating her but if you consider the one-shots interesting boss mechanics you need to play some games that actually bother on implementing AI. I agree on the fact that it’s different that a punch-bag boss and I guess that makes it more fun for you, but how a room full of AoEs and mobs that down you instantly is “interesting” is beyond me.

Why do you assume he’s talking about getting one shot? How about the mechanic that she you have to kite adds into spots around the arena to turn them into an attack against the boss while also dodging an AoE pattern? Despite the fact that you don’t enjoy being challenged, some people do, but don’t disregard that there are mechanics to a fight just because it also has one-shots.

When you have to perfectly follow a virtual script to defeat an encounter, well, that kind of game play exists for games that fill that niche, but it’s horrendous MMO content design.

I can imagine certain motivations for this, but none of them include “for the good of GW2”.

why you using the expensive truffle soup?

there are plenty of foods that are only 1s that are quite good!

Fiontar.4695:

When you have to perfectly follow a virtual script to defeat an encounter, well, that kind of game play exists for games that fill that niche, but it’s horrendous MMO content design.

I can imagine certain motivations for this, but none of them include “for the good of GW2”.

You don’t have to perfectly follow it.
There’s dozens of screw ups you can still easily overcome with dodging, or simply bypass with skills (such as shield stance / mist form / renewed focus).

Now if the darkness was unblockable and would hit you through invulnerability and evade… that’d mean you’d have to follow a script perfectly.

Fiontar.4695:

When you have to perfectly follow a virtual script to defeat an encounter, well, that kind of game play exists for games that fill that niche, but it’s horrendous MMO content design.

I can imagine certain motivations for this, but none of them include “for the good of GW2”.

All games are scripted with specific things you have to do to overcome encounters. That’s how games work. There are games that can give you multiple options of how to deal with the encounter, but it is always scripted and you will always have to do something that’s programmed into the game. There is no way around it.

AlietteFaye.7316:

Fiontar.4695:

When you have to perfectly follow a virtual script to defeat an encounter, well, that kind of game play exists for games that fill that niche, but it’s horrendous MMO content design.

I can imagine certain motivations for this, but none of them include “for the good of GW2”.

All games are scripted with specific things you have to do to overcome encounters. That’s how games work. There are games that can give you multiple options of how to deal with the encounter, but it is always scripted and you will always have to do something that’s programmed into the game. There is no way around it.

And this encounter doesn’t give you multiple avenues to overcome. Throw 3 orbs>circle strafe/dodge/block to avoid the darkfalls and visions>kill rifts as they appear. It’s extremely rigid and everything spawning in the exact same spot every time doesn’t help.

Liadri was not a well designed encounter.

Quarktastic.1027:

AlietteFaye.7316:

Fiontar.4695:

When you have to perfectly follow a virtual script to defeat an encounter, well, that kind of game play exists for games that fill that niche, but it’s horrendous MMO content design.

I can imagine certain motivations for this, but none of them include “for the good of GW2”.

All games are scripted with specific things you have to do to overcome encounters. That’s how games work. There are games that can give you multiple options of how to deal with the encounter, but it is always scripted and you will always have to do something that’s programmed into the game. There is no way around it.

And this encounter doesn’t give you multiple avenues to overcome. Throw 3 orbs>circle strafe/dodge/block to avoid the darkfalls and visions>kill rifts as they appear. It’s extremely rigid and everything spawning in the exact same spot every time doesn’t help.

Liadri was not a well designed encounter.

Stability counters pulls from the orbs. Skills that block or give you invulnerability counters the darkfalls. Swiftness helps you kite the visions around more easily. There are plenty of avenues to counter pieces of the fight. That doesn’t mean you should be able to avoid what the intended mechanics are at all times, though.

How would you have rather them designed the encounters? Better camera, sure. Have it not be timed? Okay. But what else would you have them do?

AlietteFaye.7316:

Quarktastic.1027:

AlietteFaye.7316:

Fiontar.4695:

When you have to perfectly follow a virtual script to defeat an encounter, well, that kind of game play exists for games that fill that niche, but it’s horrendous MMO content design.

I can imagine certain motivations for this, but none of them include “for the good of GW2”.

All games are scripted with specific things you have to do to overcome encounters. That’s how games work. There are games that can give you multiple options of how to deal with the encounter, but it is always scripted and you will always have to do something that’s programmed into the game. There is no way around it.

And this encounter doesn’t give you multiple avenues to overcome. Throw 3 orbs>circle strafe/dodge/block to avoid the darkfalls and visions>kill rifts as they appear. It’s extremely rigid and everything spawning in the exact same spot every time doesn’t help.

Liadri was not a well designed encounter.

Stability counters pulls from the orbs. Skills that block or give you invulnerability counters the darkfalls. Swiftness helps you kite the visions around more easily. There are plenty of avenues to counter pieces of the fight. That doesn’t mean you should be able to avoid what the intended mechanics are at all times, though.

How would you have rather them designed the encounters? Better camera, sure. Have it not be timed? Okay. But what else would you have them do?

I would have lessened the environmental effects, and given more to the boss herself. Perhaps instead of clones spawning in the exact same locations every time, make Liadri herself split into different “visions” with different effects. Hitting the real Liadri with an orb of light would dispell the other visions. While hitting the visions would make them vulnerable to Liadri’s own darkfalls.

Perhaps the darkfalls could be more infrequent, but randomized.

All in all, this fight could have been improved. But I am neither a designer nor developer, and this entire post has been something that I thought up in 30 seconds.

Quarktastic.1027:

AlietteFaye.7316:

Quarktastic.1027:

AlietteFaye.7316:

Fiontar.4695:

When you have to perfectly follow a virtual script to defeat an encounter, well, that kind of game play exists for games that fill that niche, but it’s horrendous MMO content design.

I can imagine certain motivations for this, but none of them include “for the good of GW2”.

All games are scripted with specific things you have to do to overcome encounters. That’s how games work. There are games that can give you multiple options of how to deal with the encounter, but it is always scripted and you will always have to do something that’s programmed into the game. There is no way around it.

And this encounter doesn’t give you multiple avenues to overcome. Throw 3 orbs>circle strafe/dodge/block to avoid the darkfalls and visions>kill rifts as they appear. It’s extremely rigid and everything spawning in the exact same spot every time doesn’t help.

Liadri was not a well designed encounter.

Stability counters pulls from the orbs. Skills that block or give you invulnerability counters the darkfalls. Swiftness helps you kite the visions around more easily. There are plenty of avenues to counter pieces of the fight. That doesn’t mean you should be able to avoid what the intended mechanics are at all times, though.

How would you have rather them designed the encounters? Better camera, sure. Have it not be timed? Okay. But what else would you have them do?

I would have lessened the environmental effects, and given more to the boss herself. Perhaps instead of clones spawning in the exact same locations every time, make Liadri herself split into different “visions” with different effects. Hitting the real Liadri with an orb of light would dispell the other visions. While hitting the visions would make them vulnerable to Liadri’s own darkfalls.

Perhaps the darkfalls could be more infrequent, but randomized.

All in all, this fight could have been improved. But I am neither a designer nor developer, and this entire post has been something that I thought up in 30 seconds.

Environmental effects being lessened is a fair judgement. But the others are just suggestions that could go into a different encounter. There is nothing inherently wrong with the encounter itself, other than the fact that the game’s design works against you somewhat. (Camera, effects)

Liadri herself is still a fair fight where you can counter each play with solid gameplay and knowledge.