Guild Wars 2

The more I try and get the achievements in the mini-games, the more it feels like getting a job at your favourite restaurant. At first it is totally radical that you can eat all the stuff you like, but after a few months you hate it so much you don’t even want to smell it.

The problem of course is that ANet for some reason tends to create achievements that, for the average player, require a lot of games to get.

For me anyway, it means that by the time I’m done the achievements, I never, ever want to see the game again. Even the ones I liked at first are now the last thing I want to do in game.

There must be a better way to integrate achievements, with out ruining the games.

Also, I wanted to add that aside from Southsun Survival, I have had groups get tired of grinding the game and just help each other get the achievements.

This is another example of how the achievements are not well done.

Crazylegsmurphy.6430:

The more I try and get the achievements in the mini-games, the more it feels like getting a job at your favourite restaurant. At first it is totally radical that you can eat all the stuff you like, but after a few months you hate it so much you don’t even want to smell it.

The problem of course is that ANet for some reason tends to create achievements that, for the average player, require a lot of games to get.

For me anyway, it means that by the time I’m done the achievements, I never, ever want to see the game again. Even the ones I liked at first are now the last thing I want to do in game.

There must be a better way to integrate achievements, with out ruining the games.

This so much! We had so many mini-games so far (too much in my opinion). They are funny in the first 10-30 min and then tends to get boring quickly. The problem here is the achievements in minigames with time restrictions. People can argue that you dont need to do them, but with the new reward system you do need the points.
And the OP is totally right that by the time you did all the achievements for minigames you are totally frustrated with them and dont want to see it ever again (there are some exceptions).
you dont need to add a new minigame in every content update or make it the only new thing a patch delivers (cutthroad politics = 2 new minigames and some tokens).
1 achievement for a new minigame is enough (like play the game 5 times and maybe one achievements for winning this game once).

I agree with the original point, but I do think it got better with this last patch.

Southsun Survival:

• Play 15 games —> simple and easy, and doesn’t take too long. Absolutely doable over 2 weeks.
• Get 10 headshots —> surprisingly for me, that wasn’t hard either.
• 2500 points in total —> Yes, this is grindy, but if you spread it out over 2 weeks, it’s something like 3 games a day, even if you’re not very good. 1.5 per day if you score highly. Maybe that should have been 1000-1500 points.

But what didn’t we have?

• Win games of Survivor.
  That would have been hard and potentially very frustrating!

Aspect Arena:

• 15 games playes —> Even faster than Southsun Survivor, as the games are short.
• 10 crystals carried —> A matter of time. You can also still do that after the game officially ended.
• 15 crystal carrier killed —> the hardest one (but still 100 times better than winning 50 games of Crab Toss!!!) These, too, can be done after the game ends. And I think you don’t need the killing blow, so the kill counts for all people who tagged the carrier. But I can’t confirm that now. Maybe that should have been 5-10 kills instead.

What didn’t we have?

• Win 20 games of Aspect Arena

(All numbers from memory)

I’m really not very good at these mini games – I really suffered through an entire night of Crab Toss for the achievement, and Dragonball was unplayable for me due to skill lag.

Sanctum Sprint was better, easier in terms of achievement, and I felt the achievement rewarded me for trying out things and playing the game instead of grinding it and forcing so and so many wins. 1 win is all I needed, and I got it in the end.

And the new mini-games continued in that direction. And they’re rewarding in terms of silver and special item drops (that you can also buy from the TP). Perfect.

I’m pretty happy with the development.

So, overall, the only thing I want to change at this point is that I would like to be able to play with and against my friends.

Last night I reached 2500 points. I averaged between 30 and 114 points per game, and played a total of 60 games.

If you say each game was roughly 10 minutes, then I played for somewhere in the ballpark of about 10 hours.

And now….I never want to see that place again.

As I said before, the problem is that when ANet creates achievements that take 10 hours to complete (whether you do them in one day, or spread out), it means that players who want the achievements are required to spend a LOT of time playing these games in a relatively short period of time.

When you factor in the other mini-games, dailies, monthlies, Living Story achievements, world completion, legendary crafting, socializing, fractals/dungeons, crafting, questing, and any number of other things, it means the casual/average player (1.5 hours a day according to recent numbers), is fighting a losing battle.

What I would like to see is the following:

- Make achievements based on how much you WANT to play, not how much you HAVE to play.

For example, in the Southsun Survivor game we are required to reach 2500 points. I would rather the points be open ended, and you receive a “loot bag” for every X number of points. If you’re better, you get loot bags in less games.

This way, people are being rewarded for doing something they enjoy anyway, but aren’t required to grind it out for 10+ hours. This could also be combined with a “Reach 250 points” achievement (something that would work in comparison to the other achievements).

- Achievements based on skill, not luck.

Remember Crab Toss? The backlash for creating achievements where all other players had to participate is a nightmare for most. In comparison, the “Headshot” achievement in Southsun Survival was nice because it was based on my skill.

- Achievements not based on being “first”

As I stated in another post, there are a lot of factors that contribute to a player being unable to compete with others. Lag, ability, disabilities, computer specs, etc can mean the difference between coming in first, and coming in 13th.

When players are required to beat others on an unfair playing field, it can be very frustrating. These usually result in players just “cheesing” it and helping each other out so they can get out and never come back.

In the end, I agree with Pixelpumpkin that these two new mini-games are a nice step in the right direction. The trick now is to create achievements that encourage players to participate and play the game well, but avoid burning them out on the game, or requiring them to “cheat” to win.

Crazylegsmurphy.6430:

• Make achievements based on how much you WANT to play, not how much you HAVE to play.

For example, in the Southsun Survivor game we are required to reach 2500 points. I would rather the points be open ended, and you receive a “loot bag” for every X number of points. If you’re better, you get loot bags in less games.

This is an excellent suggestion. I really like how you can complete the achievement but then keep getting loot bags if you keep playing, but yes, if those loot bags would have been tied to poitns accumulated instead of games played, that would have been fair towards people who play to win, while still being accessible to everyone (just taking a little more time), and would have obsoleted the 2500 points achievement.

For the record, I think 2500 points was too high. I personally am getting them because I enjoy the mini-game, but if I only did it for the AP, it would be too much. 1000 would have been enough, and I think the “play 15 games” achievement already covers it.

Crazylegsmurphy.6430:

• Achievements based on skill, not luck.

Remember Crab Toss? The backlash for creating achievements where all other players had to participate is a nightmare for most. In comparison, the “Headshot” achievement in Southsun Survival was nice because it was based on my skill.

Basing achievements on skill is a double-edged sword, as some people have those skills and others don’t. Headshot doesn’t actually require that much skill, just a little timing (and with additional luck, it will be super easy). I believe that anybody can get the headshot achievement, which is why I like it.

Crazylegsmurphy.6430:

• Achievements not based on being “first”

As I stated in another post, there are a lot of factors that contribute to a player being unable to compete with others. Lag, ability, disabilities, computer specs, etc can mean the difference between coming in first, and coming in 13th.

When players are required to beat others on an unfair playing field, it can be very frustrating. These usually result in players just “cheesing” it and helping each other out so they can get out and never come back.

Very true, and I’m very happy to see that over the course of the different mini-games we have progressed beyond that:

• Crab Toss: 50 wins
• Dragonball: 20 wins
• Sanctum Sprint: 1 win
• Southsun Survivor + Aspect Arena: 0 wins

Crazylegsmurphy.6430:

In the end, I agree with Pixelpumpkin that these two new mini-games are a nice step in the right direction. The trick now is to create achievements that encourage players to participate and play the game well, but avoid burning them out on the game, or requiring them to “cheat” to win.

I think for me personally, with some very very minor tweaks, this chapter’s mini-game achievements and rewards would have been perfect.

3 different mini-games in 1 month is too much – but they already said to not expect any new mini-games for some time. Instead the existing ones go on rotation. But as far as I know, no new achievements are attached to them, so we can all play them for fun or ignore them.

F my life, wrong thread =X

IMO achievements for short term events (ie living story) need (should?) to follow 1 of 2 paths, and stick with it.

1) Skill based achievements. This would anger the vocal minority (maybe majority?) of the game base as many want to be handed achievements now (I guess this is the problem with attaching rewards outside titles to an achievement system). If this was before achievement rewards went live, I would feel this is the right path to go down, as it offers some form of accomplishment to those able to complete the achievement, while not taking away from those unable.

In this category I would place the dreaded win x games, find all 52 crystals in less then x time, achieve highest [insert stat] award x times…things you actually need to work for.

2)Participation achievements. This would encourage players to keep playing the game. No need to farm 10+ hours to get an achievement that requires little work, instead have the achievements based on participation in the games. The arena mini-game achievements were great (the crystal carrier could have be a few less kills). The Survivor achievements were great (2500 points should have been less imo). All you need to get them is to play the games a few times (ignoring 2500 points). If they tied the living story achievements to participation, I think more people would enjoy it. I would LOVE to play the arena mini game a lot more, but due to time constraints I’m having to farm survival instead.

Achievements in this category would include play x mini game 10-15 times, pick up all items in said mini-game, do something x times (headshot/score/toss crab…)

I’m more a fan of option 2 with limited time content (living story), as it would encourage having fun with the event, instead of adding (pointless) grind/frustration. I don’t have a problem with hard to get achievements (something this game kinda lacks outside the 30 year long WvW achievements), but I think they shouldn’t be tied to content that will only be here for a short while. I think the AR dungeon achievements were great!…now if only they were for regular dungeons instead of a temp dungeon.

Overall I think ANET is going in a positive direction, lets just hope they keep improving!

knyy.6427:

Crazylegsmurphy.6430:

The more I try and get the achievements in the mini-games, the more it feels like getting a job at your favourite restaurant. At first it is totally radical that you can eat all the stuff you like, but after a few months you hate it so much you don’t even want to smell it.

The problem of course is that ANet for some reason tends to create achievements that, for the average player, require a lot of games to get.

For me anyway, it means that by the time I’m done the achievements, I never, ever want to see the game again. Even the ones I liked at first are now the last thing I want to do in game.

There must be a better way to integrate achievements, with out ruining the games.

This so much! We had so many mini-games so far (too much in my opinion). They are funny in the first 10-30 min and then tends to get boring quickly. The problem here is the achievements in minigames with time restrictions. People can argue that you dont need to do them, but with the new reward system you do need the points.
And the OP is totally right that by the time you did all the achievements for minigames you are totally frustrated with them and dont want to see it ever again (there are some exceptions).
you dont need to add a new minigame in every content update or make it the only new thing a patch delivers (cutthroad politics = 2 new minigames and some tokens).
1 achievement for a new minigame is enough (like play the game 5 times and maybe one achievements for winning this game once).

I understand this point of view. And I’ll start off by saying that I did not like the fact you had to win lots of games for achievement points. Sanctum Sprint got it right, that you only need to win ONCE, it gets you a title, not a whole lot of points.

However, tying time-limited achievements for new mini game releases encourages people to try them out, because they want MANY people to play to make the mini games engaging. Think about keg brawl before the achievements, or costume brawl on a day there’s no daily for that: not many play, and the games are not fun. That said, this is to encourage TRYING them out.

As for the actual work related to achievement points, they do come in tiers, so you already get a bit of AP reward as you move up (survivor at 1000 points gets you 3 AP, 2500 is 2 AP extra, same applies to head shots, and achievements for aspect arena), this in itself is reward for progression.

Lastly, GW2 has always tried to be the game you “play how you want”. You can get achievement points no matter what you do. Now that the achievement rewards are rolled out, some people started to feel like it’s a daily grind to maximize your points, which is not the spirit of this game. For example, if I missed a daily today because I wanted to go out after work or catch up on my favorite TV show, I’m not going to miss the potential 11 points I can get (more from PvP). Same with LS, If I choose to spend my time on mini games (I maxed out on points) and got the meta, I’m not going to worry about the points I’m missing out from candidate trials. Achievement rewards is the same whether I do it now or later. LS event and APs will keep on coming.

I think at the end of the day, you approach the game with a positive attitude. If your goal is to get every single achievement point you can, then that’s the style you play, and it IS a grind that you have to spend time and effort on.

If they want to make mini-games engaging, they need to make them fun, not put a load of achievements in them and hope people spend time in them just grinding achievements.

Well here’s the thing, I do find the mini games fun. Achievement points are like extra incentives to go try them out when they’re rolled out (the achievement points themselves are basically rewards). I get the points while doing something I enjoy.

Anyone can play how they want. I just see 2 options: 1) enjoy playing and points come with it, give up points on things you don’t like, or 2) grind all points possible. If you go with option 2, then you must realize that you won’t like all parts of the game, and some you’re going to get sick of. If you choose 2 and get sick of some games, you can either (A) keep a positive attitude and try to have fun, or (B) play something else to keep having fun, or © keep grinding and keep being unhappy.

Why make yourself unhappy?

For the life of me I will never understand why this game insists of forcing players to do things they hate. I hate PvP and mini games and pug dungeons. I like general PvE and don’t mind WvW but would rather just go out in the realm and play. The dynamic events are great and I cannot understand WHY they are not incorporated into the living story more.

Like instead of a king of the hill mini game like direct and advanced support why not have an area where many players 50 -150 or so could explore and do pop up events. there could have been 4 graduated boss fights in the area for the 4 levels in the achievements. Much more exciting than a mini game. More like the Halloween PvE area.

Southern survival is the most boring time I’ve spent in GW2 or any other game I’ve done. The other one wasn’t much better but at least it was faster. I figure in order to finish the southern survival I would have to do over 100 games and the chances of that happening are well astronomical since I can barely stand to do the first 15.

We were all promised a dynamic world but I guess it’s only a dynamic world until you reach level 80 then there’s not much to do.

PvP is fine if you like it. But why am I forced to do it for an achievement I realize you want to have some achievements for PvPer’s but forcing any one else in there is nuts. For one were only interested in getting the ball or killing the ball and not really worried who wins. It’s kitten the players who actually like it and want to play to have to deal with the ones who don’t know what their doing. Although when I am in there doing dragon ball or whatever I do try but Lessa knows as soon as I get the achievement I’ll never go back.

And get ready for it the Queen Jenna is going to be more of the same!

Myst Dawnbringer.9138:

For the life of me I will never understand why this game insists of forcing players to do things they hate.

Here’s the key to all the whining: They don’t FORCE anything. they REWARD you for doing things. I don’t care how much you want the reward, the only one forcing you is you. So stop.

Well, they did lie about the spontaneous dynamic world. It barely exists and they seem to be getting farther and farther away from it and relying on pug dungeons and mini games more and more.

Myst Dawnbringer.9138:

Well, they did lie about the spontaneous dynamic world. It barely exists and they seem to be getting farther and farther away from it and relying on pug dungeons and mini games more and more.

That’s not lying. They implemented the events that affect the open world for you to play. Succeeding or failing some events will lead to different results and different events. Sure, in the longer term, the world is essentially unchanged; events restart and bosses respawn. But they called this “dynamic world”. How do you take their definition, interpret it your way, and then call them liars?

Now that a lot of people have reached level 80, or have multiple level 80 characters, they’re introducing more stuff to do. Sure most Living World content do not make permanent (or just significant) impact to the open world, but the ANet specifically said that they will be going in that direction in future living world releases.

They introduced a whole level 80 Southsun back in November, and that didn’t turn out well. With Living Story they’re introducing small things leading up to something bigger in the future (think Flame and Frost opening little areas in existing maps). But this concept of Living Story hasn’t been around that long. Wait and see where it’s going.

Myst Dawnbringer.9138:

Well, they did lie about the spontaneous dynamic world. It barely exists and they seem to be getting farther and farther away from it and relying on pug dungeons and mini games more and more.

it BEARLY exists? Are you talking about the game world with thousands of events & comparing them to the handful of things that happen in updates?

right….

I agree the game needs more TRULY dynamic content. Actual AI agents that react to the surroundings & their needs, not to scripted events. but so far most of what you said is pretty much bogus.