Guild Wars 2

I can understand the OP’s perspective here. Not everyone enjoys dungeons. Not everyone enjoys PuGing.

Normally I play alone or with my husband, or (rarely) with some old GW1 pals, but its never enough to make a full 5 man team. Those that know me know that I don’t mind PuGing, but I don’t do it often for 1 of 2 reasons:
1) the general attitude of people you find in a PuG.
2) my husband doesn’t like PuGing

Yes, MMO’s are ‘social’ games to some extent, but they also appeal to people that want to play with their spouse or significant other, and to small groups of 2 or 3 people that just want to do something together, to people that might not be as social as some others or find it hard to be so. We aren’t all extroverts. This is why heroes and henchmen were so great in GW1. It allowed those that played in smaller groups and didn’t want to PuG to fill out their parties and still complete the content. Honestly, they could probably add henchmen into GW2 with some effort. They open the door with Destiny’s Edge. Offer up those 5 characters as optional dungeoning buddies.

Before someone yells ‘well then GW2 isn’t for you then’ take a step back and look at other games available for these types of people. (Small groups of friends (2-3 people), or couples looking for something to do together) Unless you enjoy head to head combat or FPS type games, there aren’t many GOOD multi-player console games out there. For people looking for a co-op RPG type game, the MMO is really the only way to go. I’ve been to my local game store many many times looking for games my husband and I could play together, co-op not head to head, and the options are very slim. So yeah, I can understand the OP’s gripe.

Edit: Just to clarify here – I am NOT saying make dungeons or normal group content solo-able. I am saying give us heroes if we’d rather not to take people we don’t know.

Anwar.2018:

Don’t listen to the hardcore kiddies, unless you are ALL max level….this is NOT easy….not even close to easy. All you heroes are declaring it easy to stroke your egos.

I’m not hardcore, i’m not a kiddie, but in comparison to other dungeons, this IS “easy”.

I joined a pug (because I’m not afraid of pug’s), and to my surprise it was a level 80 ranger, a level 22 warrior, a level 13 warrior, and a level 12 warrior, and myself as a lv.80 mesmer, not a GC.

Because I know the dungeon upscales players, I took a chance; I like to believe in the system first before outright naysaying it.

We succeeded, and in a not-so-scientific manner, we passed as fast as my normal guild group did. The only part we wiped at was the champ slime group at the end. Other than that we made it through without any wipes, including the end boss fight.

On topic, seeing as how I came into this game expecting to pug, i’m not disappointed that it’s “forced” if you feel like completing the story, though if you don’t care about story, you aren’t forced to do it.

Mastruq.2463:

All of you complaining about dungeons, is the achievement really that important to you?

I mean there are screenshots proudly claiming 0 dungeons completed from the achievement list as some kind of badge of honor in these threads. In that regard this is no different, its nothing new. It’s another achievement you dont have because you refuse to do certain aspects of the game. Which I understand, I dont do some parts of this game either. But I dont complain about not getting the full achievements for it. Every other longer story chain in GW required a dungeon or more (Destiny’s edge story, personal story, halloween, xmas) to get all the achievements, same with F&F.

If it were the achievement by itself, I’d certainly agree with you. The problem is—it’s not just the achievement. In the case of the Personal Story…you basically aren’t allowed to see the end of the story without the dungeon.
But with the Living Story, it’s much much worse. If you’ll look in the Living Story achievement pane, the only one that provides an overall participation reward (The gauntlets) requires completing 5 achievements (and meta-achievements, as I think some have multiple sub-tasks)—the 5th tick for this is not the dungeon itself. It’s for the achievement that has the dungeon as a pre-requisite, which involves you going and watching the scenes with Rox and Braham afterwards.
So if you don’t do this dungeon, not only are you barred from seeing last proper content scenes (as compared to just NPC dialogue-boxes in the Epilogue), but the past few months of effort you’ve put into fixing signs, gathering momentos, fighting off Molten Invasion groups, tracking down multiple flavors of ‘hidden objects’, helping Rox and Braham liberate Cragstead and the Hatchery, and getting bounced around the landscape by the Microphones? You might as well have not even bothered doing any of it, because you’re getting absolutely nothing for the time and effort you put into the event. There’s no secondary prize, no nothing.
The maddening thing? The way this is set up, it’s very obvious that Anet could have provided an alternate mission or something that could also serve as a pre-requisite for those last scenes, with the ‘penalty’ of not getting the unique item drops from the dungeon, but for some reason didn’t.

choon.6308:

Vulpis.8063:

Why do people keep trying to claim that formal/forced grouping is the only form of ‘player interaction’ that exists at all? I see plenty of player interaction in MMOs in general, not just GW2, that has nothing to do with raid/dungeon groups.

No one clamied that. I only claimed that it is dangerous to mess with group dynamics in favour of soloers.

Vulpis.8063:

Edit: And I also might point out that conversely, I’ve left MMOs because the high-end content was nothing but forced-grouping, with no solo content to be found..

If grouping is forced and uncomfortable to you, don’t play an MMO. Otherwise you will demand more and more things to be soloable, thus killing the MMO. Judging by the title of the thread, it seems like it is more of a chore than and opportunity to meet new people.

I don’t know how is it a horrible thing to group with 4 other people. Wow, don’t think about grouping with 23 other people then

You…don’t seem to be reading your own words, here.
In one line, you try to say that noone is claiming that forced grouping is the only form of player interaction…and then turn right around and once again state that if you’re uncomfortable with that, you shouldn’t be playing MMOs.

And as for grouping with 23 other people? I don’t. I do, however, quite enjoy open-world/public events where 23 other people show up and work on the task/Champion/Boss alongside me, without the need to actually group. There’s a vast difference between the two play styles. And that’s the wonderful thing about how nearly all of GW2 handles things—you can run it solo doing your own thing, you can run it alongside lots of other people doing their own thing—with you sometime pitching in and then wandering off, or wandering over to pick them up if they happen to be nearby, or you can, if you choose, form a group and do any of the rest of it as a team.

I just want a group finder.

Why, because I want to just play with random people. Who don’t stand around asking people about their armor. Or players who want to talk to much.

I just want to play a dungeon and have fun doing it. Even if the party has less of a chance of beating the dungeon.

Strejda Tom.6108:

If dungeons scaled for one player it wouldnt be faster to do it in party or atleast in pug. Noone would do dungeons in random parties and whole concept of MMO in GW2 would die. So hard to figure it out?

Should the MMO concept die because a few singleplayers guys want it? Nope.

Yes because a story dungeon is soloable the MMO concept will die totally, that’s exactly what will happen.

Vulpis.8063:

choon.6308:

Vulpis.8063:

Why do people keep trying to claim that formal/forced grouping is the only form of ‘player interaction’ that exists at all? I see plenty of player interaction in MMOs in general, not just GW2, that has nothing to do with raid/dungeon groups.

No one clamied that. I only claimed that it is dangerous to mess with group dynamics in favour of soloers.

Vulpis.8063:

Edit: And I also might point out that conversely, I’ve left MMOs because the high-end content was nothing but forced-grouping, with no solo content to be found..

If grouping is forced and uncomfortable to you, don’t play an MMO. Otherwise you will demand more and more things to be soloable, thus killing the MMO. Judging by the title of the thread, it seems like it is more of a chore than and opportunity to meet new people.

I don’t know how is it a horrible thing to group with 4 other people. Wow, don’t think about grouping with 23 other people then

You…don’t seem to be reading your own words, here.
In one line, you try to say that noone is claiming that forced grouping is the only form of player interaction…and then turn right around and once again state that if you’re uncomfortable with that, you shouldn’t be playing MMOs.

And as for grouping with 23 other people? I don’t. I do, however, quite enjoy open-world/public events where 23 other people show up and work on the task/Champion/Boss alongside me, without the need to actually group. There’s a vast difference between the two play styles. And that’s the wonderful thing about how nearly all of GW2 handles things—you can run it solo doing your own thing, you can run it alongside lots of other people doing their own thing—with you sometime pitching in and then wandering off, or wandering over to pick them up if they happen to be nearby, or you can, if you choose, form a group and do any of the rest of it as a team.

So did I say ‘forced grouping is the only viable playstyle and if you don’t like it don’t play mmos’ or ‘no one is claiming that. If you don’t like grouping don’t play an mmo’ ?

Sorry to break it to you but they are not the same thing. Maybe you should pay attention to what you reading before replying.

Incase you don’t understand: no, grouping is not the only playstyle. But if you don’t like grouping, don’t group ! No one is forcing you. Since you don’t like it or participate in it, what’s the point of demanding dungeons to be soloable ?

Heres my 2 cents.

I love grouping up. I rather play with someone than alone. I do however HATE DUNGEONS WITH A PASSION. Since completion Arah, I lost all desires to enter another dungeon. The dull 2 minutes of auto-attacking just to kill one trash with no interesting mechanics is something I WILL NOT repeat ever again. Sure it may have gotten betetr but again, im not interested in them anymore.

Dungeons should always be optional for gear and never story.

choon.6308:

Vulpis.8063:

choon.6308:

Vulpis.8063:

Why do people keep trying to claim that formal/forced grouping is the only form of ‘player interaction’ that exists at all? I see plenty of player interaction in MMOs in general, not just GW2, that has nothing to do with raid/dungeon groups.

No one clamied that. I only claimed that it is dangerous to mess with group dynamics in favour of soloers.

Vulpis.8063:

Edit: And I also might point out that conversely, I’ve left MMOs because the high-end content was nothing but forced-grouping, with no solo content to be found..

If grouping is forced and uncomfortable to you, don’t play an MMO. Otherwise you will demand more and more things to be soloable, thus killing the MMO. Judging by the title of the thread, it seems like it is more of a chore than and opportunity to meet new people.

I don’t know how is it a horrible thing to group with 4 other people. Wow, don’t think about grouping with 23 other people then

You…don’t seem to be reading your own words, here.
In one line, you try to say that noone is claiming that forced grouping is the only form of player interaction…and then turn right around and once again state that if you’re uncomfortable with that, you shouldn’t be playing MMOs.

And as for grouping with 23 other people? I don’t. I do, however, quite enjoy open-world/public events where 23 other people show up and work on the task/Champion/Boss alongside me, without the need to actually group. There’s a vast difference between the two play styles. And that’s the wonderful thing about how nearly all of GW2 handles things—you can run it solo doing your own thing, you can run it alongside lots of other people doing their own thing—with you sometime pitching in and then wandering off, or wandering over to pick them up if they happen to be nearby, or you can, if you choose, form a group and do any of the rest of it as a team.

So did I say ‘forced grouping is the only viable playstyle and if you don’t like it don’t play mmos’ or ‘no one is claiming that. If you don’t like grouping don’t play an mmo’ ?

Sorry to break it to you but they are not the same thing. Maybe you should pay attention to what you reading before replying.

Incase you don’t understand: no, grouping is not the only playstyle. But if you don’t like grouping, don’t group ! No one is forcing you. Since you don’t like it or participate in it, what’s the point of demanding dungeons to be soloable ?

Heh. Actually, it’s not so much demanding that dungeons be soloable, as the problem that someone thought it was a cute idea to make the one and only means to complete either the Personal or Living storylines that are otherwise completely free of content that you absolutely have to be in a formal group for (but can be done that way if you choose to, since they scale upwards nicely) be a dungeon. Arah is even a doubly whammy of bad design, since not only do you have a dungeon smack-dab on the end of solo content, you have what ought to be solo content welded on to the entirely otherwise dungeon-based Destiny’s Edge reunion story. The two parts need to be split up, really. As for the Molten Facility…given how it’s been pushed as the epic end to the event, the ‘obvious’ solution is to make a soloable version (since fat lot of good making this ‘epic ending’ is if only a fraction of the people who did the entire rest of the event get to see it), with another solution being to keep the dungeon for the dungeon-runners, and provide an alternate, similarly difficult solo task that trips the same event flags for the rest of us (I can’t speak for anyone else, but I’m quite willing to give up the unique dungeon drops in favor of being able to actually get the last part of the story and the reward for participating)

Arcturus.5846:

Heres my 2 cents.

I love grouping up. I rather play with someone than alone. I do however HATE DUNGEONS WITH A PASSION. Since completion Arah, I lost all desires to enter another dungeon. The dull 2 minutes of auto-attacking just to kill one trash with no interesting mechanics is something I WILL NOT repeat ever again. Sure it may have gotten betetr but again, im not interested in them anymore.

Dungeons should always be optional for gear and never story.

Hmmm. Dungeons should be optional for the solo story. But there’s nothing wrong with them having their own separate/parallel storyline, to be honest. The problem is when you have that bait-and-switch change-up where the one is not optional for the other.

Ramurak.8501:

Who in the team thought it be fun to add another dungeon so hard its impossible to solo or near impossible to even duo, so that it force peoples to party up to max party size … again ?

Really ? I mean really ? after all those complains for past months about the last dungeon Arah, forcing a full size party to finish storyline, they are still doing it ?

Here i thought they finally changed, those in charge of Super Aventure Box, done it perfectly, give their player a chance to do it alone or with a small party. Very good job SAB Team, you guys sure know how to do stuff.

Oh well in my book Anet lost their number one team for making online game. I thought there was still some hope left, but there is none. Will sure not be looking forward to any of their future game from now on.

It’s a pretty easy dungeon. As well, do you want them to only release solo and duo dungeons? I mean, you mention SAB in your post, then say you don’t get any solo-able dungeons. SAB IS ONLY A MONTH OLD. Some people like solo stuff, some like grouped stuff. Considering you can do majority of the game solo, I’d say grouped stuff is the stuff that keeps a MASSIVELY MULTIPLAYER game going. It’s not very epic to solo Zhaitan, or Jormag… and it shouldn’t be. However, soloing smaller events is typically a fun challenge.

Vulpis.8063:

choon.6308:

Vulpis.8063:

choon.6308:

Vulpis.8063:

Why do people keep trying to claim that formal/forced grouping is the only form of ‘player interaction’ that exists at all? I see plenty of player interaction in MMOs in general, not just GW2, that has nothing to do with raid/dungeon groups.

No one clamied that. I only claimed that it is dangerous to mess with group dynamics in favour of soloers.

Vulpis.8063:

Edit: And I also might point out that conversely, I’ve left MMOs because the high-end content was nothing but forced-grouping, with no solo content to be found..

If grouping is forced and uncomfortable to you, don’t play an MMO. Otherwise you will demand more and more things to be soloable, thus killing the MMO. Judging by the title of the thread, it seems like it is more of a chore than and opportunity to meet new people.

I don’t know how is it a horrible thing to group with 4 other people. Wow, don’t think about grouping with 23 other people then

You…don’t seem to be reading your own words, here.
In one line, you try to say that noone is claiming that forced grouping is the only form of player interaction…and then turn right around and once again state that if you’re uncomfortable with that, you shouldn’t be playing MMOs.

And as for grouping with 23 other people? I don’t. I do, however, quite enjoy open-world/public events where 23 other people show up and work on the task/Champion/Boss alongside me, without the need to actually group. There’s a vast difference between the two play styles. And that’s the wonderful thing about how nearly all of GW2 handles things—you can run it solo doing your own thing, you can run it alongside lots of other people doing their own thing—with you sometime pitching in and then wandering off, or wandering over to pick them up if they happen to be nearby, or you can, if you choose, form a group and do any of the rest of it as a team.

So did I say ‘forced grouping is the only viable playstyle and if you don’t like it don’t play mmos’ or ‘no one is claiming that. If you don’t like grouping don’t play an mmo’ ?

Sorry to break it to you but they are not the same thing. Maybe you should pay attention to what you reading before replying.

Incase you don’t understand: no, grouping is not the only playstyle. But if you don’t like grouping, don’t group ! No one is forcing you. Since you don’t like it or participate in it, what’s the point of demanding dungeons to be soloable ?

Heh. Actually, it’s not so much demanding that dungeons be soloable, as the problem that someone thought it was a cute idea to make the one and only means to complete either the Personal or Living storylines that are otherwise completely free of content that you absolutely have to be in a formal group for (but can be done that way if you choose to, since they scale upwards nicely) be a dungeon. Arah is even a doubly whammy of bad design, since not only do you have a dungeon smack-dab on the end of solo content, you have what ought to be solo content welded on to the entirely otherwise dungeon-based Destiny’s Edge reunion story. The two parts need to be split up, really. As for the Molten Facility…given how it’s been pushed as the epic end to the event, the ‘obvious’ solution is to make a soloable version (since fat lot of good making this ‘epic ending’ is if only a fraction of the people who did the entire rest of the event get to see it), with another solution being to keep the dungeon for the dungeon-runners, and provide an alternate, similarly difficult solo task that trips the same event flags for the rest of us (I can’t speak for anyone else, but I’m quite willing to give up the unique dungeon drops in favor of being able to actually get the last part of the story and the reward for participating)

You’re acting like it’s hard or something. I don’t get what you are debating about it. As much as people may like to solo, these games are called “MMOs” for a reason. People typically play with a small group of friends or find friends whilst in game.

I would have liked to try it but couldn’t find a group. I stood around asking for about 20 min 2x and couldn’t get anyone to join. I thought about trying that website but felt it was just too much work, went off to WvW instead. Whats in there? I’ll probably never know. After getting burned by non-functioning scavenger hunts I don’t think I’ll pay much attention to these types of events in the future. The whole thing was really uninteresting and extremely frustrating.

Foddzy.6291:

The whole thing was really uninteresting and extremely frustrating.

Amen to that, buddy.

Cole Eyre.8471:

I dont think the issue with party size and dungeons has anything to do with anet “forcing multiplayer blah blah blah in an MMO”, I think it has to do with requiring a specific number of players to party up.

Why can’t dungeons scale for one – five (or however many) players? I can’t even tell you how often we’ve struggled with trying to find an extra person or two to round out a party or had to exclude a person or two because the dungeon had a five person limit. If the game is going to be considered a social game, then it seems ideal to me to allow for scaling like this. Of course we don’t live in an ideal world nor is it necessary fair to strive for the ideal in a system you have little or no ability to govern. Still, I have hope for the future that this will evolve.

There is a limit to the amount of options available for boss fights, the lower the # allowed the lower the amount of mechanics possible to scale or even have possible to exist.

Ramurak.8501:

Did you try SOB ? You know then it was written as joke i hope ‘’ Recommended 5 Players’’

You been missing the whole point, good for you if you like a big challenge or to party with a big group. Never thinking about those who doesnt. Selfish much ?

And stop trying to kiss Anet kitten lol like many other players that does

Yet demanding everything to be designed around solos play isn’t greedy at all? It’s an MMO, there is going to be things made for all types of people. If it was adhering to your personal beliefs, then it would not make group-friendly players happy as there is nothing that’s for them, unless it’s super-easy-moding solo content… Which then why is there a point in teams?

It’s like those who hate to see PvP updates when they want more PvE content, and vice-versa.

It’s aimed at all spectrums of the content of Living Story, the rest of it was soloable, and at least the dungeon in streamlined, easy, and quick.

well yeah its forced group they have something for every playstyle ingame there plenty of soloable stuff alot more than most mmos i will add dungeons are intended for group play so they work as intended.

Paraka.9724:

Ramurak.8501:

Did you try SOB ? You know then it was written as joke i hope ‘’ Recommended 5 Players’’

You been missing the whole point, good for you if you like a big challenge or to party with a big group. Never thinking about those who doesnt. Selfish much ?

And stop trying to kiss Anet kitten lol like many other players that does

Yet demanding everything to be designed around solos play isn’t greedy at all? It’s an MMO, there is going to be things made for all types of people. If it was adhering to your personal beliefs, then it would not make group-friendly players happy as there is nothing that’s for them, unless it’s super-easy-moding solo content… Which then why is there a point in teams?

It’s like those who hate to see PvP updates when they want more PvE content, and vice-versa.

It’s aimed at all spectrums of the content of Living Story, the rest of it was soloable, and at least the dungeon in streamlined, easy, and quick.

Noone asks that EVERYTHING has to be soloable. But many people wish that a story which can be done solo does not end in a sort of forced group-content. It is just a disappointing experience if someone can do a part of a story and then either has to leave it unfinished or needs to change his/her playstyle in a way he doesn’t like at all.

I guess many people wouldn’t like if the story ended in some kind of mass-pvp even though I personally consider pvp a big part of any MMO. And that’s the same for people who do not like dungeon-content.

Dungeons are a small, fast, easy and cheap way to add new content. Used by highly organized and skilled groups of players trying to do the same thing over and over expecting a different outcome.

Is it that hard to find 4 other people, or don’t people usually have some friends (hopefully at least 4) who are playing as well?
- I mean, it is an MMO. There are games out there with Multiplayer options and such.

I don’t find much fun in playing MMO’s if you don’t take the occasionaly dungeon run or PvP with a couple of pals.

I agree that the general attitude of people bugs me, and I only ever do dungeons with friends (or guild mates).
- A nice friendly Guild makes it all the more fun and opens up a lot of the social multiplayer content.
- Much of the combat also emphasizes on combo fields and attacks between players. I find them easier to do with friends that I can talk directly to over skype or something, but I don’t think that social content should be banned from an MMO. Especially when it is so essential to an MMO’s game design.

My suggestion is to find a nice, friendly and (above all) mature guild.
- I find it much more rewarding to play an MMO with people.

Vulpis.8063:

Hmm. This is the second thread in a row to use the term ‘CORPG’, and again, no clue what it stands for…nor am I sure why you’re making a distinction, as both are massive, multiplayer games.

Just to clear this up for you the ‘Massive’ is usually used to denote the games with an always existing outdoor world where any number of players can gather (could because servers will just fail at some point if you pile more and more people in). This is in opposition to games that have a lobby setup where the players gather to start their adventures in an area instanced specifically for them. GW1 is still a lobby albeit a pretty one (full 3d environment towns, as opposed to a chat room or just a town square or whatever else). GW2 features the persistant outside world like UO or EQ, hence it is considered a MMO game as opposed to Co-Op game.

Mastruq.2463:

Vulpis.8063:

Hmm. This is the second thread in a row to use the term ‘CORPG’, and again, no clue what it stands for…nor am I sure why you’re making a distinction, as both are massive, multiplayer games.

Just to clear this up for you the ‘Massive’ is usually used to denote the games with an always existing outdoor world where any number of players can gather (could because servers will just fail at some point if you pile more and more people in). This is in opposition to games that have a lobby setup where the players gather to start their adventures in an area instanced specifically for them. GW1 is still a lobby albeit a pretty one (full 3d environment towns, as opposed to a chat room or just a town square or whatever else). GW2 features the persistant outside world like UO or EQ, hence it is considered a MMO game as opposed to Co-Op game.

Interesting way of looking at it—and completely honestly one I’d never have thought of, as compared to ‘Multiplayer RPG is Multiplayer RPG, as compared to Multiplayer FPS’. Just to make sure I’m understanding your meaning, Phantasy Star Online (also with a lobby, progressing into mission areas) is also a CORPG, correct?

Jonin.7230:

If you want to solo everything go play LOTRO

… good advice, great game.)

Meh, we managed to 2 person the dungeon. (Ranger and Mesmer party)

Mr Quinn.9815:

Jonin.7230:

If you want to solo everything go play LOTRO

… good advice, great game.)

If only outdated graphics with laggy, empty servers is considered great… Not to mention it is mostly p2w, solo-oriented, overpriced…

choon.6308:

Mr Quinn.9815:

Jonin.7230:

If you want to solo everything go play LOTRO

… good advice, great game.)

If only outdated graphics with laggy, empty servers is considered great… Not to mention it is mostly p2w, solo-oriented, overpriced…

Better outdated graphics than outdated so-called ‘social’ mechanic. If they’re empty and laggy at the same time, something’s kinda weird. Solo-oriented is the draw, not a drawback. And for the P2W and overpriced…I’m trying to rememeber if LOTRO is another one of those where you can actually grind in-game currency to buy store unlocks in addition to paying straight cash—I might be confusing it with DDO, though.

Gw2 was marketed as being solo friendly, something that that played an important role in my decision to buy the game. In my opinion this is one of the promises that Anet has broken, although still not as badly as the death penalty, colors being account bound and so on.

From my experience from GW1, all story related elements were achievable by at most two players. Yeah there were some dungeons, but those were not important for the story and were mainly interesting for the loot and achievements.

In GW2 there are more and more elements that are solo unfriendly.
Like for example the living story. I decided to try with my GF to finish the living story this weekend, but we got blocked by the weapon facility. A duo of mesmer and thief alone just can’t do it.
I enjoy multi player and thing that the dynamic event system is a great way to implementing it. But I do hate enforced partying.

As such I am just forgetting about the living story and I don’t think I am going to bother with any future iterations of the living story. If it’s not meant for me then why should I bother with it.

I had high hopes for GW2, even got all the heritage equipment from GW1.
But I am finding myself less and less interested in the game. The story is childish, but at least is still better than the one from GW1:Prophecies.

To play with armor combinations it’s pointless before you reach lvl 80, and leveling is a boring journey I don’t care much about.
Not to mentions that colors are just too expensive, especial since we have to buy new ones for each character.

The skill system is way to limited, rigid and boring. The combat quickly becomes repetitive and stale.
Then again I do miss in other games the ability to move mid skill, this is a great feature combat wise.

The dynamic events are nice, but the repetitive combat quickly becomes too much of a detractor.

The environment is nice, but the limited camera makes it hard to fully enjoy it and to be able to take the screenshots we would want.

As such I am finding myself drifting away from GW2 more and more.
Not logging in the game for more than a month not being anything special any more.

Now take this just as a rant from a disgruntled player, that wanted to take part in a new feature of the game that was meant to be fun and exciting, but turned out to be just frustrating and annoying.

Seems like migration from MMORPG to MMORPG will have to continue, in the hope of finding a game that doesn’t perpetuate the catering to the few “hardcore” players, but that tries to satisfy others too.
Something that GW2 was promising in the beginning, but buckled under the pressure of ill chosen (if they were meant to represent the non hardcore faction) beta testers.

On the other hand, imagine all the rage that would come from players if all of the climactic moments were soloable. I daresay it would cause several times the complaints in this thread.

It’s just another example of not being able to please everyone. Developers just need to acknowledge such circumstances, put on their thick skin and ignore most complaints like this.

Vulpis.8063:

If it were the achievement by itself, I’d certainly agree with you. The problem is—it’s not just the achievement. In the case of the Personal Story…you basically aren’t allowed to see the end of the story without the dungeon.
But with the Living Story, it’s much much worse. If you’ll look in the Living Story achievement pane, the only one that provides an overall participation reward (The gauntlets) requires completing 5 achievements (and meta-achievements, as I think some have multiple sub-tasks)—the 5th tick for this is not the dungeon itself. It’s for the achievement that has the dungeon as a pre-requisite, which involves you going and watching the scenes with Rox and Braham afterwards.
So if you don’t do this dungeon, not only are you barred from seeing last proper content scenes (as compared to just NPC dialogue-boxes in the Epilogue), but the past few months of effort you’ve put into fixing signs, gathering momentos, fighting off Molten Invasion groups, tracking down multiple flavors of ‘hidden objects’, helping Rox and Braham liberate Cragstead and the Hatchery, and getting bounced around the landscape by the Microphones? You might as well have not even bothered doing any of it, because you’re getting absolutely nothing for the time and effort you put into the event. There’s no secondary prize, no nothing.
The maddening thing? The way this is set up, it’s very obvious that Anet could have provided an alternate mission or something that could also serve as a pre-requisite for those last scenes, with the ‘penalty’ of not getting the unique item drops from the dungeon, but for some reason didn’t.

This.

I’m never going to be an incredible player. I’m just not. That’s fine. I don’t need amazing gear as a status symbol. I don’t need all the things. I don’t have the time or the smarts to figure out the absolute best, hardcore, tricked-out gear for myself. While I love random party events, I haven’t had great experiences in dungeons or with PUGing (generally). It’s not fun for me. That said, I’m willing to try stuff and will pour hours into it if necessary. I’m part of a small guild and we gave several runs at MF and wiped, repeatedly and terribly. We spent close to 4 hours on it last night (close to 6 if you count the first, aborted run) and couldn’t get past the final bosses. I’m not a fantastic player, but I’m generally not useless, either, and this was a disappointing, frustrating exercise.

I accept that I’m going to suck at certain things. But it’s crappy to not be able to see the ending to a storyline after going through all of the events and tasks up to that point because it’s tied to something I can’t do. Again, I don’t need the stuff or the status, but I’d at least like to be able to see what happens.

Loved the suggestion of providing an elite reward for those that do like to dungeon or party up and aren’t going to humiliate themselves in the attempt. If GW2 is truly geared to making the living story accessible to everyone, then I hope consideration is given in future to making it do-able (or at least view-able!) to more than just experienced dungeon-runners.

Homitu.7216:

On the other hand, imagine all the rage that would come from players if all of the climactic moments were soloable. I daresay it would cause several times the complaints in this thread.

It’s just another example of not being able to please everyone. Developers just need to acknowledge such circumstances, put on their thick skin and ignore most complaints like this.

Or, they can actually put in some effort, and make those climactic moments accessible by both.
Then again, I can’t really see that many people complaining about solo*able* story climaxes other than maybe the ones who only want dungeons, for a very simple reason—nearly every piece of soloable content in this game is doable by a group as well as solo. Or to look at it another way—unless there’s some restriction I’ve missed, afaik every instanced mission in the game can become a 5-man by simply doing it in a group.

Homitu.7216:

On the other hand, imagine all the rage that would come from players if all of the climactic moments were soloable. I daresay it would cause several times the complaints in this thread.

It’s just another example of not being able to please everyone. Developers just need to acknowledge such circumstances, put on their thick skin and ignore most complaints like this.

I don’t know what you are talking about.
What would be the problem if they were soloable?
Would making the content being soloable prevent groups from doing it?
Also isn’t there a scaling system in GW2?

And yeah I suppose “hardcore” players would talk about it a lot more, just for the fact that they allready spend more time on the forums and in game than others.

I am more vocal than most players in GW and look at how few posts I made.
Keep in mind that the few hundred people you see on the forums are very few compared with the few millions that bought the game.
And they are not a good cross section of the player base as they are a specific sub group of players.

Lol at thread starter, this dungeon is easily 2 manned.

Ramurak.8501:

Guild Wars 2 has done many things to make it very much ‘’Player Friendly Environement’’ But still stayed with the old system for dungeon… which is party based.

There is a system in place, that can a scale up and down system for their events mob/boss, so why is there none for their dungeon ?

Tawa.3180:

SAB was doable solo because it’s not really a dungeon.

Molten Facility would lose its grandness if I could just walk in and faceroll everything. I’m not exactly Solid Snake in this strange thing called a MMO.

Did you try SOB ? You know then it was written as joke i hope ‘’ Recommended 5 Players’’

You been missing the whole point, good for you if you like a big challenge or to party with a big group. Never thinking about those who doesnt. Selfish much ?

And stop trying to kiss Anet kitten lol like many other players that does

I think you are looking for a single player game. I’m sorry if haven’t grasped it yet, but this IS an MMORPG. It’s a social game. Solo runs aren’t social.

Also, in terms of having dungeons soloable, that makes group play boring. You end up facerolling dungeons if they are meant for solo play.

Again, this genre isn’t for solo play. This game is for group play.

I have to add my 2cents here.

I also didn’t like that there was a need for a 5-man.

I was only able to make 2 attempts at MF. both times I had to PUG. as usual when in a PUG. both attempts failed.

So I did all the all missions only to fall short of the prize due to being forced to do something I am really not a fan. especially when I had no choice but to PUG it as well

It takes a lot more work than people think to make content soloable. World events that scale based on very simple criteria are completely different from scripted dungeons and even in the open world there are events that don’t scale as well as others.

What people are suggesting is that Anet take the time to make a dungeon soloable that will be around for two weeks or less. I find this to be an unreasonable request. The time frame to put stuff like this out doesn’t permit the time it takes to make something scale. It’s just not that easy. It would take too long to test.

What if they made it scale wrong and two people couldn’t finish it. What if it scaled badly and it was a cakewalk for two people. No matter what you do people complain.

Making it balanced around five players also takes time, but that’s still the norm for a dungeon. Others who don’t want to pug it, and don’t want to join a guild and don’t want to participate in group content don’t have to do it.

Sure it would be better if permanent dungeons scaled for smaller groups but content like this?

This is simply an unreasonable request.

Vulpis.8063:

Mastruq.2463:

Vulpis.8063:

Hmm. This is the second thread in a row to use the term ‘CORPG’, and again, no clue what it stands for…nor am I sure why you’re making a distinction, as both are massive, multiplayer games.

Just to clear this up for you the ‘Massive’ is usually used to denote the games with an always existing outdoor world where any number of players can gather (could because servers will just fail at some point if you pile more and more people in). This is in opposition to games that have a lobby setup where the players gather to start their adventures in an area instanced specifically for them. GW1 is still a lobby albeit a pretty one (full 3d environment towns, as opposed to a chat room or just a town square or whatever else). GW2 features the persistant outside world like UO or EQ, hence it is considered a MMO game as opposed to Co-Op game.

Interesting way of looking at it—and completely honestly one I’d never have thought of, as compared to ‘Multiplayer RPG is Multiplayer RPG, as compared to Multiplayer FPS’. Just to make sure I’m understanding your meaning, Phantasy Star Online (also with a lobby, progressing into mission areas) is also a CORPG, correct?

I dont know that game, so I cannot comment.

Examples of MMORPGs I know would be EQ1, EQ2, WAR, TOR, Asherons Call 1+2. GW1 carefully avoided calling itself an MMORPG back before and when it was released, because of that distinction. No idea what their stance was later on at the time you played it.

Its also noteworthy that the concept of instancing didnt exist in the early MMORPGs like Ultima Online, DaoC, Asherons Call or Everquest because the whole point of those games was having that persistant world that everyone shares. So the distinction between that crop of games and a game with a lobby from which you launch seperate copies of the same area for each group of players was much clearer then it is these days with the rampant instancing on everything (if you cant tell, my wish game wouldnt have any or very little instancing).

Edit:
I want to repeat the reminder that GW1 at release was NOT something that the casual player soloed or duoed through. Everyone describing it as such seems to look at it from a perspective of a GW1 that has aged for years and added many features that made soloing easier (Heroes mostly, but also more skills and professions that could do things you simply couldnt in Prophecies proper). Maybe GW2 group content is as soloable in 4 years, its even likely.

Matter of fact if I couldnt solo my way through a mid-story key mission in GW1 Prophecies I was stuck at that point. Unable to progress into any new areas I had to beat it solo or (more likely if I already failed often) seek out the help of fellow players.
Contrast this to GW2 where practically nothing is out of your reach while solo except the instanced dungeons. There are eight of those, you’re blocked from nothing at all outside of them. The very final personal story mission is the last story dungeon so you need to do it it to see Trahearne dancing, but that’s it. I find GW2 puts way more focus on solo play then GW1.

to anyone who uses the excuse “play a single play game”, i have a few pointers that shows how wrong this excuse is.
1.) MMORPG means massive multiplayer online role playing game, nothing tells anyone that you need to group with ppl.
2.) if you have not noticed, there are only a few singleplayer games that have an open world and you have to like them to, not to mention that most of them (not all) take even more money to play and it doesn’t exactly let you play with friends.
3.) the reason why we’re noting playing a different game is because we’re playing guild wars 2, it’s utterly ridicules to shoot someone off just because it’s a solo player.

so if you think a solo player should not play an MMO at all then i ask you this, how does that benefit the player and how do you think this MMO has survived up until now?

sorudo.9054:

to anyone who uses the excuse “play a single play game”, i have a few pointers that shows how wrong this excuse is.
1.) MMORPG means massive multiplayer online role playing game, nothing tells anyone that you need to group with ppl.
2.) if you have not noticed, there are only a few singleplayer games that have an open world and you have to like them to, not to mention that most of them (not all) take even more money to play and it doesn’t exactly let you play with friends.
3.) the reason why we’re noting playing a different game is because we’re playing guild wars 2, it’s utterly ridicules to shoot someone off just because it’s a solo player.

so if you think a solo player should not play an MMO at all then i ask you this, how does that benefit the player and how do you think this MMO has survived up until now?

’
The part that says Multiplayer says you do have to play other people. When you select multiplayer on any game you are going to play with other people and be placed in teams with those people.

You complain about not being able to solo things, yet, you complain you can’t play with friends in single player games. You are contradicting yourself.

How does what not benefit the player? Not playing an MMO? It means you get to play a game you enjoy rather than affecting the player base a whole which plays MMO’s for the social experience not the solo experience.

How has this MMO has survived? By people playing it. Are you implying everyone bought a multiplayer game to play by themselves?

There are many games that are single player that have an open world. Whether you know about them or not, there are several. They aren’t advertised in every corner of the world because they aren’t as popular as a genre.

You chose to play a Massive Multiplayer Online RPG. The multiplayer means there are going to be many if not all parts of the game where you need to interact with people and be in groups. In any game whatsoever, when you press the multiplayer button, it takes you to play with other people. How does multiplayer not imply playing with people?

What you are complaining for, affects the entire community. The small amount of people complaining that they can’t play solo in a MMO is greatly outweighed by those that are happy with the way the game is. People buy MMO’s to play with other people. Yeah, some parts can be solo’d, but everything is done better and more efficiently in a group if not require you to be in a group.

Also, for those saying that they are being blocked by this, Living story is nothing more than something for gear and achievements. This does not block you in anyway from playing the main game. It is a side option just like in GW1 there were side missions like UW, Urgoz’s, FoW, etc… None of this was required for you to do. Living story is a side chain. Nothing more than just skins and achievements.

Oh boy…. Net – I am a bit of an MMO sociopath… there – I said it…. I play MMOs and I enjoy in game banter and helping folks in open world etc – but I frankly cant stand waiting for PUGS and possibly having some angsty person unload at me at the end of a really crappy day at work because I messed up on a step in a dungeon. I do like grouping with friends and family when I can – but that does always not meet my schedule since I work crazy hours to pay the bills.
I was really pretty disappointed at doing the solo stuff and then – oh golly gosh and kittens – a freaking dungeon at the end….
I love the game and I love the fact that Anet keeps adding new cool stuff for free – but its a waste of time for me if I have mandatory dungeon instance at the end …
So sure – tell us that we are whiners and that we should go somewhere else if we dont want to socialize – but really there are other approaches to ending stuff like this and it should not have to be dungeons …. By all means have dungeons with cool extra shiny things for those who care – but for me I would be happy to do a soloable version of something and see how the story plays out … or do an open world event… if the server would not melt down (memories of karkas…)

Just because it’s an MMO doesn’t mean that the player should group with others. For some people it’s enough just to have other people around even if they don’t interact with them to make the game feel more alive. I generally solo play and group on occasion when i can find the time to play with friends or guildies. I don’t like PUGs because they can be frustrating, unorganized and some people are just plain annoying.

That being said i would love to be able to solo dungeons in story mode and make them scaleable if you wanted to take a friend or two (or three or four!). A lot of times it can be tough getting into a story because if someone’s already done it there’s really no incentive to do it again. I do however like forcing a full group for explorables because they’re tougher and actually have incentives to do multiple times. Maybe if they made more incentives for story mode it wouldn’t be so bad. Though i would still prefer scalable story dungeons as it would be nice to be able to check out the entirety of the game’s main story with out the pain of finding a descent group.

So the guy that managed to do it with only 2 80s and 3 upscaled players without being wiped at the end bosses must have had a really good team.

I also did this at the first try. But we had like 3 80s and 2 upscaled(but almost 80) and we never wiped except at the end boss… and there like 5+ times until we managed to kite him down. I don’t know which one we tried first… but we changed order and then it worked better… and after there was only 1 it was easy to kite but it took a while.

Also I have to say – since I only wanted the achievement and thought it would not be that hard(I heard the dungeon is harder than other dungeons… but I don’t know myself, never did other dungeons I don’t like dungeons) – I was running with my 2nd char which was around level 70 and had a bit old gear. It was a guardian completely traited at solo dps farming PvE mobs in the open world with greatsword.

That probably did not help the team – since I only wanted the achievement and thought it would be an easy dungeon. I don’t change traits for 1 dungeon and besides… I really don’t know that much about guardian. Running with the same skills since beginning and going to try different stuff once I’m 80(and trying sPvP and WvW then).

Did not want to use my main engineer since he was in Heart of the Mists and I didn’t want to move him to the dungeon area(costs silver for WP or walking time).

And I’m going to to the same every other dungeon available only for a short time… even if it isn’t helping the team that much. I just want the achievement and I can try with different groups and they might all be better than me and I might profiting… but that’s okay. I mean ArenaNet forces you to do the dungon in that short amount of time(instead of making it permanent).

So it is okay to try everything to get the achievement.

Frankly I don’t like pugs. I prefer to play alone. The reason is that I am old, I am not as quick or as good as the kids that are playing. When you group, people in the group get upset if you fail to play at their level. It ruins the fun for me and for the others in the group. So why not allow people like me to have a solo version of the game? Most of the personal story is solo anyway.v

I read the patch notes saw that the story was tied to not one but two 5 man dungeons- and promptly ignored all of it.
for various rl reasons I can’t really do 5 man content- I can solo content or I can do it with my husband.

If you want to create temp story content – give your players the opportunity to scale story dungeons .
That actually goes for regular Story Mode dungeons too, thank you.

Its a MMO there should be no single player dungeons at all if you ask me ;I

I don’t like dungeons and instances that require parties either, it just creates “elitism” and speed run rubbish.

And I noticed further up comments such as “MMO’s are social games”, I think this ones got a long way to go to become a truly “social game”.

Guys…you necroed a five month old thread that was nothing but negativity.