Guild Wars 2

From my perspective, the Living Story releases appear to be getting progressively more buggy, and sloppy.

In this current release (Clockwork Chaos), we have already seen the following bugs/mistakes.

- Mini Watchknight disappearing
- Portal devices not working
- Dailies on login screen not displaying correctly
- Culling description mistake
- Scarlet following/harassing some players
- Parties being spit up into different overflows
- “Fixed an issue which caused Vorpp to play his completion line incorrectly.”
- Temporarily reverted karma consumables to their previous values.
- Corrected character model options text to no longer specify WvW only.
- Fixed various crash bugs.

..and probably more (I’m tired of looking).

Now, I realize that bugs are inevitable when dealing with complex software, but there has to be a point when you just have to say, “Something isn’t working.!”

Even if we put the bugs aside for a moment, the amount of sloppy mistakes in this release is really odd. From incorrect descriptions, to completely forgetting to inform the community of a major change to Karma, resulting in a roll-back for the entire thing, these types of mistakes are something I expect to see when things are being rushed.

I’ve made a few posts about this since the Living Story started, and it still doesn’t seem to be improving. What is worse, is when these bugs go ignored for the entire event causing issues for everyone, or worse, are “fixed” leaving all the players who didn’t rush to the content with often a harder time (with no compensation, or roll-back).

There needs to be a point when ANet realizes that you can have things quick, or you can have things done well. If they want to continue the “quick fire” Living Story, then I feel they really need to dedicate more time into quality control and testing.

Anyway, I am curious to hear your thoughts on the bugs, and whether they’ve affected you or not.

1/ the karma change is minor. Such things usually don’t get communicated in other games. A.net reverting this is the exception to the rule. Don’t complain.

2/ typos and minor glitches happen in other games too. Check the GW1 wiki with random pages. There’s quite some with bugs, anomalies and other weird stuff. Some of that hasn’t been fixed since launch.

3/ a trend? You never played GW1 right? “Fixed miscellaneous crash bugs” was part of every update, even years into the game.

And you’re kinda right. This is complex software. But it’s not critical software. No human lifes are at stake. Pushing content makes people more happy than delaying polished content. This content has to be quick, whether it’s done well are bonus points but by no means necessary. That’s what hotfixes are for.

What are you complaining about really … minor issues getting hotfixed if crucial or ignored when irrelevant.

marnick.4305:

1/ the karma change is minor. Such things usually don’t get communicated in other games. A.net reverting this is the exception to the rule. Don’t complain.

What is minor depends on your goals. For those who were holding stacks and stacks of Karma with the idea of trading it all in (for legendaries, armour, etc), it can be very annoying to have a miscommunication mess with that.

In this case, while it may be “minor” it is still not very professional. While I’m happy they were so quick to roll it back, it is something that shouldn’t have happened in the first place.

marnick.4305:

2/ typos and minor glitches happen in other games too. Check the GW1 wiki with random pages. There’s quite some with bugs, anomalies and other weird stuff. Some of that hasn’t been fixed since launch.

Yes, and we expect these things. The problem is when you add these issue with time sensitive content. What is a minor inconvenience normally, can become a game changing issue for someone trying to complete a task, or spend real money.

marnick.4305:

3/ a trend? You never played GW1 right? “Fixed miscellaneous crash bugs” was part of every update, even years into the game.

I’m not sure what GW1 has to do with this. My point is that the faster you pump out content, the less time you have to test it. So if they’re going to pump it out, they need to put more resources into testing.

marnick.4305:

And you’re kinda right. This is complex software. But it’s not critical software. No human lifes are at stake. Pushing content makes people more happy than delaying polished content. This content has to be quick, whether it’s done well are bonus points but by no means necessary. That’s what hotfixes are for.

No, but money is. When you involve real money, these things become a lot more of an issue. I personally don’t see the appeal of quantity over quality. Sure, it’s “something” to do, but it can be a frustrating experience.

marnick.4305:

What are you complaining about really … minor issues getting hotfixed if crucial or ignored when irrelevant.

Would you like to discuss all the issues that never get hotfixed in Living Story updates? Or about the ones that do, that leave players totally screwed?

The living story chapters do seem to have quite a few bugs. Anet scrambles to fix them, but like the OP said, I wonder if they’re getting enough playtesting before launch…?

All content releases are bound to have a bug or two, but I think we’re noticing it more because the content releases are so frequent. (I still think that the two week schedule is not a good thing).

Crazylegsmurphy.6430:

marnick.4305:

1/ the karma change is minor. Such things usually don’t get communicated in other games. A.net reverting this is the exception to the rule. Don’t complain.

What is minor depends on your goals. For those who were holding stacks and stacks of Karma with the idea of trading it all in (for legendaries, armour, etc), it can be very annoying to have a miscommunication mess with that.

In this case, while it may be “minor” it is still not very professional. While I’m happy they were so quick to roll it back, it is something that shouldn’t have happened in the first place.

Agree. Communication nor rollback happens in other games. A.net apparently cares enough to give people a chance at increased karma. That’s a first in MMO gaming.

marnick.4305:

2/ typos and minor glitches happen in other games too. Check the GW1 wiki with random pages. There’s quite some with bugs, anomalies and other weird stuff. Some of that hasn’t been fixed since launch.

Yes, and we expect these things. The problem is when you add these issue with time sensitive content. What is a minor inconvenience normally, can become a game changing issue for someone trying to complete a task, or spend real money.

[/quote]
I have yet to run into crucial issues. Maybe I’m too smart for these issues to bother me.

marnick.4305:

3/ a trend? You never played GW1 right? “Fixed miscellaneous crash bugs” was part of every update, even years into the game.

I’m not sure what GW1 has to do with this. My point is that the faster you pump out content, the less time you have to test it. So if they’re going to pump it out, they need to put more resources into testing.

MMOs have these kinds of small issues. I kinda like them. Gives flavor. I don’t think the latest living story has more of those than any other content update in any other MMO game.

marnick.4305:

And you’re kinda right. This is complex software. But it’s not critical software. No human lifes are at stake. Pushing content makes people more happy than delaying polished content. This content has to be quick, whether it’s done well are bonus points but by no means necessary. That’s what hotfixes are for.

No, but money is. When you involve real money, these things become a lot more of an issue. I personally don’t see the appeal of quantity over quality. Sure, it’s “something” to do, but it can be a frustrating experience.

And yet, lots of updates generate more money than few ones that don’t have those minor typos. These are not real issues. The content more or less works as intended. For games, that’s enough.

Ocarina of Time has been in development for almost 10 years. Despite being considered the best game ever made, it still has tons and tons of minor and major bugs. Who cares.

marnick.4305:

Agree. Communication nor rollback happens in other games. A.net apparently cares enough to give people a chance at increased karma. That’s a first in MMO gaming.

I’m not sure you’ve played a lot of games. I don’t mean this as an insult, but that is a wildly inaccurate statement.

marnick.4305:

I have yet to run into crucial issues. Maybe I’m too smart for these issues to bother me.

I’ll ignore your little jab at anyone who it may bother (and refrain from reversing that). There have been many issues that have caused some to become wealthy, while others can’t even complete the content (AKA The Candidate Trials).

I’m happy you haven’t run into crucial issues, but that doesn’t mean they don’t exist.

marnick.4305:

MMOs have these kinds of small issues. I kinda like them. Gives flavor. I don’t think the latest living story has more of those than any other content update in any other MMO game.

Sigh….What? You fall from a Jumping Puzzle which causes your account to be suspended for a few days and you, what…clap your hands and say, “Spicy!” and bound away happy?

Also, what other games do is not relevant. The, “Ya, well they do it too, so that makes it ok!” argument really isn’t very good.

marnick.4305:

And yet, lots of updates generate more money than few ones that don’t have those minor typos. These are not real issues. The content more or less works as intended. For games, that’s enough.

More or less huh? ANet…give this person a job!

marnick.4305:

Ocarina of Time has been in development for almost 10 years. Despite being considered the best game ever made, it still has tons and tons of minor and major bugs. Who cares.

I’ll go out on a limb here…and say….oh, the people who play Ocarina of Time.

Crazylegsmurphy.6430:

marnick.4305:

Agree. Communication nor rollback happens in other games. A.net apparently cares enough to give people a chance at increased karma. That’s a first in MMO gaming.

I’m not sure you’ve played a lot of games. I don’t mean this as an insult, but that is a wildly inaccurate statement.

I’ve been a gamer since I first saw a brand spanking new 386 back when I was 4 years old. It’s actually the first memory I have. I don’t mean this as an insult but I’ve probably got more time played than you’ve lived. I dialed back quite a bit after getting a job, but gaming is still my primary hobby for almost a quarter century now.

marnick.4305:

I have yet to run into crucial issues. Maybe I’m too smart for these issues to bother me.

I’ll ignore your little jab at anyone who it may bother (and refrain from reversing that). There have been many issues that have caused some to become wealthy, while others can’t even complete the content (AKA The Candidate Trials).

I’m happy you haven’t run into crucial issues, but that doesn’t mean they don’t exist.

Such “issues” don’t impact me. I’m not the jealous type. Despite my boss earning a hundred times more than me, I’m pretty happy with what I earn.

marnick.4305:

MMOs have these kinds of small issues. I kinda like them. Gives flavor. I don’t think the latest living story has more of those than any other content update in any other MMO game.

Sigh….What? You fall from a Jumping Puzzle which causes your account to be suspended for a few days and you, what…clap your hands and say, “Spicy!” and bound away happy?

Also, what other games do is not relevant. The, “Ya, well they do it too, so that makes it ok!” argument really isn’t very good.

It makes it inevitable. Games are not nuclear power plants. There’s a slightly larger margin for error when it comes down to fun.

marnick.4305:

And yet, lots of updates generate more money than few ones that don’t have those minor typos. These are not real issues. The content more or less works as intended. For games, that’s enough.

More or less huh? ANet…give this person a job!

I’ve got a job thank you very much. At a certain point one has to choose whether added polish is worth it. Sometimes it is, sometimes it isn’t. I’m not of the opinion that everything has to be perfect.
Once it works to a certain degree, it’s good to ship. The amount of perfection necessary is obviously different between projects. A game can have some bugs, that’s not a problem. A nuclear power plant shouldn’t have a single issue. If you can’t understand that, I’d recommend getting a job in IT. You’ll find out soon enough.

I don’t want to be condescending, but there’s only so much you can do in a given amount of time. Games are rather unique in having the option of not being perfect in favor of shipping more fun content. Often the second choice is the preferred one by gamers.

marnick.4305:

Ocarina of Time has been in development for almost 10 years. Despite being considered the best game ever made, it still has tons and tons of minor and major bugs. Who cares.

I’ll go out on a limb here…and say….oh, the people who play Ocarina of Time.

For sake of argument, could I please ask your age?

marnick.4305:

I’ve been a gamer since I first saw a brand spanking new 386 back when I was 4 years old. It’s actually the first memory I have. I don’t mean this as an insult but I’ve probably got more time played than you’ve lived. I dialed back quite a bit after getting a job, but gaming is still my primary hobby for almost a quarter century now.

Nope, got ya beat. Tandy 1000.

marnick.4305:

For sake of argument, could I please ask your age?

You could…..but age doesn’t make arguments more, or less relevant.

Crazylegsmurphy.6430:

marnick.4305:

I’ve been a gamer since I first saw a brand spanking new 386 back when I was 4 years old. It’s actually the first memory I have. I don’t mean this as an insult but I’ve probably got more time played than you’ve lived. I dialed back quite a bit after getting a job, but gaming is still my primary hobby for almost a quarter century now.

Nope, got ya beat. Tandy 1000.

Touché

marnick.4305:

marnick.4305:

For sake of argument, could I please ask your age?

You could…..but age doesn’t make arguments more, or less relevant.

It does when you trash talk the best game ever made. Such comments most often come from teenagers who can’t stand the brilliant Nintendo games for being “too childish”.

You’re comment sounded rather negative, maybe I merely misread in which case I apologize.

I stand by my original point though. My job is to solve industrial automation problems and one of my default questions before doing something is “Can I kill someone when I press this button?”. From that perspective, these issues you point out are less than minor. The game works just fine, with or without them. I don’t have that luxury.

@marnick – “Delayed content is eventually good. Rushed content is eternally bad. ~ Shigeru Miyamoto” isn’t this in your sig?

or am i missing something fundamental or takign taht out of context?

i’m not so much about the bugs. i know it’ll happen. rather, now, i get the feeling that i’m rushing to play the content. not saying i don’t enjoy it, but i PERSONALLY wouldn’t mind more “down time” between content updates.

again, i am grateful and it’s amazing what ANet does. and not saying that other players who enjoy the crazy intensity every 2 weeks worth of content and bug ridden updates can’t have it their way either. meeerely expressing my own thoughts.

akamon.2769:

@marnick – “Delayed content is eventually good. Rushed content is eternally bad. ~ Shigeru Miyamoto” isn’t this in your sig?

or am i missing something fundamental or takign taht out of context?

Which specifically references Ocarina of Time, despite many delays and a complete scrap, becoming the best game ever made. And guess what, it has tons of bugs. The amount of bugs does not define the quality of a game.

i’m not so much about the bugs. i know it’ll happen. rather, now, i get the feeling that i’m rushing to play the content. not saying i don’t enjoy it, but i PERSONALLY wouldn’t mind more “down time” between content updates.

I like the frequency of updates, and the amount of bugs is most certainly acceptable. What I prefer is more permanent content, but that’s not relevant to the discussion at hand.