Guild Wars 2

… Because ANet needs to read this first post:

http://www.guildwars2roleplayers.com/forum/page/1/m/2737230/viewthread/10764684-anet-vs-writing-warning-this-thread-contains-large-amounts-snark-spoilers

This is not how you present a story, guys. You’re supposed to weave exposition into the gameplay, not dump an NPC with verbal diarrhoea who spews out the amazing story so far in all its glory.

All of this has been in the gameplay.. for the last 15 months.

This was merely a way for new people or people who had no idea what was going on, to get clued in.

This isn’t a re-playable single player game or multi-player game.. It’s an ever growing MMO.

Would you like a replay of the Karka Event that happened a few months after the game released? Perhaps this time you can save the lighthouse?

12 months of work condensed into 17 clicks. And in this version, we don’t even have to worry about side character development.

Maybe it’s just me, but I’m finding it more fun to run through Personal Story paths.

Delvoire.8930:

All of this has been in the gameplay.. for the last 15 months.

This was merely a way for new people or people who had no idea what was going on, to get clued in.

This isn’t a re-playable single player game or multi-player game.. It’s an ever growing MMO.

Would you like a replay of the Karka Event that happened a few months after the game released? Perhaps this time you can save the lighthouse?

…You’re kidding right? Tell me you’re kidding.

Being an MMO has nothing to do with Anet’s ridiculous idea that players shouldn’t be able to replay old content. Every MMO under the sun keeps the majority of expansion content in place when a new one comes out, just in case new players come to the game and want to start from the beginning.

Yes, every MMO has limited time world changing events, but these events usually run for several months, and are used sparingly.

GW2 has taken the idea of having limited time events, and gone way over board with them by making their entire content based around it. This is not fun for a new player, at all. Nothing like coming into the game, hearing about Scarlet, and than hearing about all the cool stuff that happened that they’ll never, ever, get to participate in.

If Anet had actually kept the LS content in the game after each update, GW2 would have a plethora of content for people to participate in…but they didn’t, and instead we get the flavor of the week content to hurriedly rush through so we can have the next spoonful of (usually bad) content shoved down our throats.

On a slightly more serious note – exposition is a legitimate problem in writing and I think perhaps something that Arenanet needs to work on.

When players need some NPC to give them a large wall of text explaining everything that’s been going on it means that the story probably hasn’t been delivered in the best possible way.

Exposition is almost always bad… Soo….. Work on that

Blade Syphon.4325:

…You’re kidding right? Tell me you’re kidding.

Being an MMO has nothing to do with Anet’s ridiculous idea that players shouldn’t be able to replay old content. Every MMO under the sun keeps the majority of expansion content in place when a new one comes out, just in case new players come to the game and want to start from the beginning.

Yes, every MMO has limited time world changing events, but these events usually run for several months, and are used sparingly.

GW2 has taken the idea of having limited time events, and gone way over board with them by making their entire content based around it. This is not fun for a new player, at all. Nothing like coming into the game, hearing about Scarlet, and than hearing about all the cool stuff that happened that they’ll never, ever, get to participate in.

If Anet had actually kept the LS content in the game after each update, GW2 would have a plethora of content for people to participate in…but they didn’t, and instead we get the flavor of the week content to hurriedly rush through so we can have the next spoonful of (usually bad) content shoved down our throats.

I really like the temporary content. The temporary nature is what makes it a Living World, instead of a static world like “every MMO under the sun”. I don’t know why some people get so hung up on missing some event that happened 6 months ago. You missed it? That’s too bad, but it’s not a big deal. There’s new content coming out all the time. It’s great, and I really enjoyed it as a new player coming into the game, and I still enjoy it now.

I really like what ANet is doing with Living World and I’m glad I get to be a part of it.

Blade Syphon.4325:

Yes, every MMO has limited time world changing events, but these events usually run for several months, and are used sparingly.

Bloody Kithicor disproves this, as do all the other GM-run progression events going on in old EverQuest. They were one-time, unheralded events which started, ended, and never could be done again.

Copying this post from that thread made by “Trivia” on the second page because accuracy.

Trivia

I study literature. I’m a critical writer. I know a thing or two about storytelling. You want to know how I would do it better? Alright, here goes, some points off the top of my head in no particular order:

1. I would make Scarlet react to the player and address them directly to give them more sense of involvement and immersion. This was their chance to make up for the whole Trahearne situation where he took away the role of the protagonist from the player. Instead they chose to have several protagonists, which in practice means no protagonists, and the player just feels bloody invisible.

2. Making a villain seem super smart by making everyone else idiots is no way to establish her as a threat. Seriously, how did the Whispers not got onto her? How did Lionguard not notice bloody airships flying out of a secret factory located behind the waterfall? How did the Krytan engineers not notice that their robots were being tampered with on such a level?

3. Speaking of robots, I would not make my killer weapon of murder a giant robot with huge kittens and high heels because that’s a) ridiculous and b) unnecessary fanservice that’s not even sexy, it’s just creepy

4. Monologuing is a crappy way for a villain to express her achievements. It feels crass, overdone, and clumsy. If you want us to see that Scarlet is awesome, show it. Have other people talk about her. Make the players witness a war council where the important people discuss the threat. Let them take part. It doesn’t even have to be voiced, it needs to be well written. Let us find notes from the people she duped. Let us talk to a Fire Legion shaman before a climatic point where he rages about how she duped him. They did a bit of that in the Tower of Nightmares where you could overhear npcs talking about her. That was the step in the right direction.

5. MAKE HER DO SOMETHING GODkitten SIGNIFICANT. Kill an important character. Anything. Do not just let her come with unlimited resources and get defeated for no reason. God.

6. Stop her from appearing so much. Bloody hell. If she’s meant to be behind the scenes schemer, keep her behind the scenes. Make her appearances something rare and menacing. Right now she’s just a cheap annoyance that does stupid taunts. That’s not threatening. That’s not plucky. It just makes my ears bleed.

I can go on. Really.

Yes. This is why the LS is a mess. Also…

ZigZag

Oh and don’t forget:

7: Under no account allow your villain to escape a confrontation by casually walking away and vanishing through a portal while everyone else stands by doing nothing, only to have them remark on how awesome she is for escaping! It is never ok to mock the player for a failure they couldn’t have possibly avoided if the failure is as logic defyingly stupid as standing there slack jawed while the villain monologues and escapes.

Trivia

I study literature. I’m a critical writer. I know a thing or two about storytelling. You want to know how I would do it better? Alright, here goes, some points off the top of my head in no particular order:

ANet is aware. What matters is what they will do about it, and we won’t know that until the Scarlet LS wraps up and we see what they do with the next Living Story. If they are able to take what they have learned and make a truly enjoyable Living Story next time, then I can forgive them for Scarlet as a “learning experience”.

jsduke.6537:

ANet is aware. What matters is what they will do about it, and we won’t know that until the Scarlet LS wraps up and we see what they do with the next Living Story. If they are able to take what they have learned and make a truly enjoyable Living Story next time, then I can forgive them for Scarlet as a “learning experience”.

They surely are walking new terrain for an MMO of this size with the living story, but the story itself is not one of them. It seems a bit like the story writers are still learning too, as you can see many things that were criticized in the forums were in some way implemented in the game during the last releases.
But the headwriters should not have to learn how to tell good storys, that should be a job requirement.
I kind of hope that someone else will take care of the story for the future of GW2…

Bob F It.5701:

12 months of work condensed into 17 clicks. And in this version, we don’t even have to worry about side character development.

Maybe it’s just me, but I’m finding it more fun to run through Personal Story paths.

I was going to make a snide remark about our characters being side characters, but we’ve been given so little development since release (virtually none) that I don’t think we even qualify as side characters.

darkace.8925:

Bob F It.5701:

12 months of work condensed into 17 clicks. And in this version, we don’t even have to worry about side character development.

Maybe it’s just me, but I’m finding it more fun to run through Personal Story paths.

I was going to make a snide remark about our characters being side characters, but we’ve been given so little development since release (virtually none) that I don’t think we even qualify as side characters.

Just like Guild Wars 1!

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

darkace.8925:

Bob F It.5701:

12 months of work condensed into 17 clicks. And in this version, we don’t even have to worry about side character development.

Maybe it’s just me, but I’m finding it more fun to run through Personal Story paths.

I was going to make a snide remark about our characters being side characters, but we’ve been given so little development since release (virtually none) that I don’t think we even qualify as side characters.

Just like Guild Wars 1!

I’m sorry, but what’s your point? Are you defending bad writing by pointing out other bad writing? Or was your going off topic unintended?

darkace.8925:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

darkace.8925:

Bob F It.5701:

12 months of work condensed into 17 clicks. And in this version, we don’t even have to worry about side character development.

Maybe it’s just me, but I’m finding it more fun to run through Personal Story paths.

I was going to make a snide remark about our characters being side characters, but we’ve been given so little development since release (virtually none) that I don’t think we even qualify as side characters.

Just like Guild Wars 1!

I’m sorry, but what’s your point? Are you defending bad writing by pointing out other bad writing? Or was your going off topic unintended?

Not off topic. We’re talking about how sour characters never developed as characters right? Guild Wars 1 was the same way, really.

And since both are, ostensibly, by the same company . . . it’s like expecting them to actually get innovative with the Madden franchise.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

darkace.8925:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

darkace.8925:

Bob F It.5701:

12 months of work condensed into 17 clicks. And in this version, we don’t even have to worry about side character development.

Maybe it’s just me, but I’m finding it more fun to run through Personal Story paths.

I was going to make a snide remark about our characters being side characters, but we’ve been given so little development since release (virtually none) that I don’t think we even qualify as side characters.

Just like Guild Wars 1!

I’m sorry, but what’s your point? Are you defending bad writing by pointing out other bad writing? Or was your going off topic unintended?

Not off topic. We’re talking about how sour characters never developed as characters right? Guild Wars 1 was the same way, really.

And since both are, ostensibly, by the same company . . . it’s like expecting them to actually get innovative with the Madden franchise.

Fair enough.

Delvoire.8930:

All of this has been in the gameplay.. for the last 15 months.

This was merely a way for new people or people who had no idea what was going on, to get clued in.

This isn’t a re-playable single player game or multi-player game.. It’s an ever growing MMO.

Would you like a replay of the Karka Event that happened a few months after the game released? Perhaps this time you can save the lighthouse?

That’s an exaggeration. A good chunk of the exposition being handed out in the last two patches comes from the short stories from the website (“What Scarlet Saw” in particular), not the game.

Shiren.9532:

Delvoire.8930:

All of this has been in the gameplay.. for the last 15 months.

This was merely a way for new people or people who had no idea what was going on, to get clued in.

This isn’t a re-playable single player game or multi-player game.. It’s an ever growing MMO.

Would you like a replay of the Karka Event that happened a few months after the game released? Perhaps this time you can save the lighthouse?

That’s an exaggeration. A good chunk of the exposition being handed out in the last two patches comes from the short stories from the website (“What Scarlet Saw” in particular), not the game.

One of those said patches was in the game nearly 2 months ago…

Yes, more was added in for the last patch but honestly the fact that the short story was a basis for the information doesn’t matter. Every time you log into the game there is an area that shows you the newest updates/news for the game. When Scarlet’s Story was released, a link for that story was there for all to see. The people who came after that, yes they were left out.

Dott.5672:

http://www.guildwars2roleplayers.com/forum/page/1/m/2737230/viewthread/10764684-anet-vs-writing-warning-this-thread-contains-large-amounts-snark-spoilers

This is not how you present a story, guys. You’re supposed to weave exposition into the gameplay, not dump an NPC with verbal diarrhoea who spews out the amazing story so far in all its glory.

As much as I agree, this random!scholar NPC is still an improvement from out-of-game blog posts that used to be the only way to deliver lore. NPC Plot Dump was poor, but at least this was in the actual game, so that the majority of players who don’t read blog posts, actually get some clues as to what is going on.

That being said and giving Anet the credit for slightly improving game lore (so that is actually delivered in-game), they should really work on better storytelling and lore implementation, as well as flesh out more believable characters.
Scarlet’s Lair and the clues there were a good step in that direction and much better than the “Exposition Fairy”.