I think I know what Scarlet is after.
I see why you mean this and it would make a fun concept out of scarlet sue but its not correct as you cant just tie her up to an elderdragon without any hints at all. And the world boss in the sylvari quest is the dream that caithe and the player charachter gets. I wouldnt really say that Mordemorth —> Pale tree --→ scarlet makes any sense at all as the dragon champions are usally near their dragon and there seems like no nearby area for them to sleep at. Maguuma wastes? Well that aint a jungle anymore he would prolly have awaken before if it just dissapears. You’re basicly saying since mordemoth—→paletree—→Scarlet —-→ Strange actions —→ mordemoth but with no ties at all between mordemoth and paletree as there is no direct proof of them having anything erchoter to do sylvari wouldnt have that desire to fight the elderdragons if they were minons of an elderdragon. Theyre prolly like the immune system of tyria against the desease (elderdragons) Of course like deseases in real life where we need them to avoid overpopulation we need elderdragons to avoid overmagic but we still have an immune system. I personally belive what will happen with scarlet is that she’s now trying to aquire tech from the alliances she created to combine it into somthing big that she’l use to make those thorns around the paletree. Like aetherblade tech for getting to the grove very quick past the guards then unleash toxic corruption with molten guns at the paletree to corrupt it.
This seems to be the correct place to post this, since you’re flashing the “I was right card” in another sub forum. But I think I should address your original arguments, and explain why you are wrong.
Considering all we know about her love for wrecking havoc and how she went mad after her accident in Omadds machine I found a possible answer on what is her goal.
I think that she is a Dragon Champion of the Jungle Dragon a.k.a. Mordremoth and her goal is to awaken him.
I don’t think she is a dragon champion, because as far as we know dragon champions lose all rational thought. Scarlet seems to have a split personality, which implies that she still has some sort of free will. Her mind may be corrupted, but she doesn’t show the signs of being a champion of a dragon (that we know of).
As to why I think she wants to awaken Mordremoth is also due to a hint from EotN.
How do we know Mordremoth is asleep, and how do you conclude that she wants to wake him? You can guess that that is her motive. But what is your reason for reaching this conclusion, other than a wild stab in the dark?
The main antagonist in EotN was the Great Destroyer which we had to kill in the final mission. And it was stated now that the defeat of the Great Destroyer caused the awakening of Primordus to be delayed. In other words had the Great Destroyer not been defeated Primordus would have awakened sooner.
How does this have anything to do with Mordremoth or Scarlet? It doesn’t support your theory in any way.
Mordremoth also appears to be the source of the Nightmare in the Dream of Dream
How do you conclude this?
which is supported by the world boss in the Sylvari tutorial quest.
Which the Pale Tree confirmed to be a vision of Zhaitan right after that opening mission. She literally says that it means your Wyld Hunt will be to defeat Zhaitan.
That boss looks much like a plant version of Tequatl
Exactly!
So the fact Scarlet is a sylvari that severed her ties with the Pale tree also supports this.
No! Wrong conclusion! Your logic makes no sense. The Pale Tree says it’s a vision of Zhaitan, it looks like a champion of Zhaitan. So it’s linked to Zhaitan!
If it turned out to be a vision of Mordremoth, that would make no logical sense, and would basically be a redcon of what was originally shown in the Personal Story. The entire personal story revolves around fighting Zhaitan. It would make no sense to suddenly tie it to the current Living Story. That wouldn’t make sense from a chronological point of view.
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D-On3Ya0_4Y)
Considering all we know about her love for wrecking havoc and how she went mad after her accident in Omadds machine I found a possible answer on what is her goal.
I think that she is a Dragon Champion of the Jungle Dragon a.k.a. Mordremoth and her goal is to awaken him.
The whole accident sounds vaguely similar to the incident with Svanir back in EotN.
Jora told Svanir to leave Drakkars lake as quickly as possible while he instead decided to examine the place which corrupted him into the “Nornbear.” And as we know now Svanir was in fact a Dragon Champion of Jormag.
So this all sounds very similar – the Pale Tree also warned her not to proceed further but she didnt listen and something happened to her which changed her into the person she is now.
As to why I think she wants to awaken Mordremoth is also due to a hint from EotN.
The main antagonist in EotN was the Great Destroyer which we had to kill in the final mission. And it was stated now that the defeat of the Great Destroyer caused the awakening of Primordus to be delayed. In other words had the Great Destroyer not been defeated Primordus would have awakened sooner.
And we all know now that the Jungle Dragon will be fought too so I think that this whole Living story is simply the prequel to Mordremoths awakening.
Mordremoth also appears to be the source of the Nightmare in the Dream of Dream which is supported by the world boss in the Sylvari tutorial quest. That boss looks much like a plant version of Tequatl. So the fact Scarlet is a sylvari that severed her ties with the Pale tree also supports this.
Or maybe she wants to take out the Mordremoth version of the Great Destroyer to keep him slumbering longer.
I see a lot of people throw out Mordremoth and Primordius, I don’t hear a lot of theories about the energy probes. Let me know what you think of this theory I came to:
…I do think she may be trying to revive and restore Abaddon’s power using the Bloodstones. One can only speculate WHO Scarlet saw to motivate her towards these ends. It could have been Abaddon himself, a corrupted Kormir, Dhuum, etc. That kind of story arc would be worthy of a new chapter in Living story/expansion.
There’s no doubt in my mind that Scarlet is using her probes to research the ley lines in order to find the Bloodstones. I also believe they are an important focus of the Eternal Alchemy, potentially reinforcing Taimi’s research and role in things to come.
The Sylvari teaching “Act with wisdom, but act.” bears resemblance to “Act with magic, act within reason, act without mercy.” Which may explain why she and “certain other Sylvari” are more impressionable.
Going off the idea that Abaddon still has some kind of connected power with the Bloodstones through the Eternal Alchemy, one of them may be buried beneath or near the Pale tree. This could make him potentially responsible for the Nightmares within the Dream, as well as corrupting Scarlet and the Nightmare Court into a new army of Margonites. During Omadd’s experiment, I believe Scarlet revisited her nightmare, and her role in the events to come.
“She saw Tyria and the Mists; she saw the insurmountable challenge of the future and her people’s part in it—the sylvari of the tree and the Nightmare Court, Caithe and Faolain—all part of a grand design. And for the first time in years, she heard the voice of the Pale Tree, begging her to go no further.”
…I do think she may be trying to revive and restore Abaddon’s power using the Bloodstones.
One: Abaddon is dead. Not just dead, he died in the Mists. That’s like extra-dead with more dead on top, and a special sauce of not-returning-anymore.
Two: The Bloodstones are weakening. They are slowly leaking their magic back into the land. They may no longer be as powerful as they used to be.
Three: We have no reason to assume the Bloodstones can be used to bring anything back to life.
There’s no doubt in my mind that Scarlet is using her probes to research the ley lines in order to find the Bloodstones.
The leylines are not tied to the Bloodstones as far as we know. Plus, you don’t need probes to locate Bloodstones. We know where some of them roughly are. But she doesn’t seem to be after those. She’s after Lion’s Arch. There’s no Bloodstone underneath Lion’s Arch.
The Sylvari teaching “Act with wisdom, but act.” bears resemblance to “Act with magic, act within reason, act without mercy.” Which may explain why she and “certain other Sylvari” are more impressionable.
To act with wisdom is very different from to act with magic and without mercy. They do not sound alike at all.
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D-On3Ya0_4Y)
Let’s get this out of the way first. Scarlet is absolutely not a champion of an elder dragon.
Maybe I should rephrase that, Ceara is absolutely not a champion of an elder dragon. Maybe Scarlet is, but even then that’s a stretch. I’d say more along the lines of just corrupted. I made a post about Scarlet being Ceara’s dragon-corrupted split personality somewhere, but I forget where.
Scarlet clearly has her own motives. Dragon champions have one motive: serve their dragon.
There are a lot of uncertainties about the process of becoming a dragon champion, so I’m cautious to say too definitive things about it. My mind keeps going back to the fact that Scarlet strangled Omadd with vines after the experiment. This is something that I don’t think an ordinary Sylvari could do. Did she receive special powers? I don’t know. I don’t think she is a dragon champion either, but that still leaves the question of her new powers unanswered.
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D-On3Ya0_4Y)
Ok, so I spend too much time wondering about Scarlet’s true goals, and I tought about something that may or may not have anything to do with the impending doom of LA. How about this:
We know that she has put thumpers all over the “world” and that they are somewhat aligned to the ley lines of Tyria.
We also know that she looked into the Eternal Alchemy and something looked back.
So, what if she’s trying to sink Orr and in her shattered mind, she’s trying to “right all the wrong” done to Tyria by all the dragons? LA could just be the epicenter of her latest attempt, and she wouldn’t care what happened to it as long as she got the end result.
She has used the peoples of Tyria as her lab rats, and she has finally gotten a weapon strong enough to try to get to whatever it is she is trying to destroy.
I don’t think she has “turned good” but I do think she has a plan to reshape the world by getting under the surface (as evidenced by her preoccupation with Dredge and the Thumpers.
We still have one more chapter in her story after this one. It will be interesting to see where they go with it.
One: Abaddon is dead. Not just dead, he died in the Mists. That’s like extra-dead with more dead on top, and a special sauce of not-returning-anymore.
Two: The Bloodstones are weakening. They are slowly leaking their magic back into the land. They may no longer be as powerful as they used to be.
Three: We have no reason to assume the Bloodstones can be used to bring anything back to life.
1.) Abaddon was absorbed into Kormir.
2.) Maybe, but there’s no telling what they can or can’t do after hundreds of years.
3.) Considering one represents Preservation, and that all of them combined represent all the magic in Tyria I don’t find it much of a stretch.
The leylines are not tied to the Bloodstones as far as we know. Plus, you don’t need probes to locate Bloodstones. We know where some of them roughly are. But she doesn’t seem to be after those. She’s after Lion’s Arch. There’s no Bloodstone underneath Lion’s Arch.
If ley lines channel magic around the world and the bloodstones are the embodiement of all magic we know in Tyria, how are they NOT interconnected?!
Even if I rescind my speculation about Abaddon or a corrupted Kormir, why would she need dozens of energy probes to find Lion’s Arch?
…Even if I rescind my speculation about Abaddon or a corrupted Kormir, why would she need dozens of energy probes to find Lion’s Arch?
She’s not after LA specifically. I think she’s under something that lies under LA…and in her psychotic mind shet thinks she’s curing what ails us.
Some people aren’t looking for anything logical, like money. They can’t be bought, bullied, reasoned or negotiated with. Some people just want to watch the world burn.
Sorry, I had to.
1.) Abaddon was absorbed into Kormir.
No, Abaddon’s power was absorbed by Kormir. But Abaddon himself has been completely destroyed.
2.) Maybe, but there’s no telling what they can or can’t do after hundreds of years.
Based on what we currently know, what they can’t do is increasing, and what they can do is decreasing, with each passing year.
3.) Considering one represents Preservation, and that all of them combined represent all the magic in Tyria I don’t find it much of a stretch.
They don’t represent all magic in Tyria.
If ley lines channel magic around the world and the bloodstones are the embodiement of all magic we know in Tyria, how are they NOT interconnected?!
The Bloodstones are not the embodiment of all magic on Tyria.
Even if I rescind my speculation about Abaddon or a corrupted Kormir, why would she need dozens of energy probes to find Lion’s Arch?
She wouldn’t. She’s looking for something else. The strongest leyline, which leads somewhere.
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D-On3Ya0_4Y)
How about a modified version of what the OP is saying. I’m not really one that would support the “she’s a dragon champion” theory. What if she was corrupted by the champion of the elder dragon Mordremoth. She’s trying to find the Elder Dragon’s Champion to help it awaken Mordremoth. It’s still tied to the Mordremoth’s Champion but would make more sense. Something like the Svanir being corrupted at Drakkar lake scenario.
@Mad Queen Malafide.7512:
All your arguments amount to “We cannot know therefore we’re guessing wildly”.
Of course we cannot know, this is a speculation thread. If we knew the thread would be useless, or it would be a “describe things that are apparent to everyone thread”.
And since it’s a speculation thread and any reasonable person would be working off the ‘balance of probabilities’, rather than ‘beyond all reasonable doubt’ as you wish to impose upon us. How about you offer alternate explanations that are more credible?
1) The Pale Tree says a dragon made of plants is related to Zhaitan. Under the theory the Pale Tree is hiding Mordremoths influence (consciously or subconsciously). Therefore the most supported explanation is not that the dragon is related to Zhaitan but that it’s related to Mord.
To demonstrate how not to respond: Yes, the plant dragon from the tutorial could be related to a non-plant dragon, say why this is more likely than a plant dragon being related to a plant dragon. Could the plant dragon from the tutorial be related to a plant non-dragon, say why this is more likely than a plant dragon being related to a plant dragon.
2)
Considering all we know about her love for wrecking havoc and how she went mad after her accident in Omadds machine I found a possible answer on what is her goal.
I think that she is a Dragon Champion of the Jungle Dragon a.k.a. Mordremoth and her goal is to awaken him.I don’t think she is a dragon champion, because as far as we know dragon champions lose all rational thought.
Give examples of why you believe dragon champions lose all rational thought.
Explain why Scarlet only being partially converted wouldn’t adequately explain the difference (if a difference is demonstrated).
3)
The entire personal story revolves around fighting Zhaitan. It would make no sense to suddenly tie it to the current Living Story.
The dragon is a plant dragon. If it was an undead dragon it could easily have been put in to the tutorial. Just because you believed an unreliable source doesn’t destroy the story. It is clearly a plant dragon, and you should clearly have been more skeptical from the beginning.
Having the clue to Mordremoth be right in the face of everyone the whole time is good writing, not bad as you suggest. It’s foreshading, and it’s foreshading that isn’t stuck right in your face with flashing arrows. Players can replay the story and see: “Oh- wow. They actually had a plan all along.”
Instead you want to make out that because a character who has a reason to misdirect, or simply a character that is making the best estimate based upon current information, says something that isn’t eventually true than the writers have no idea what they’re doing.
No, Abaddon’s power was absorbed by Kormir. But Abaddon himself has been completely destroyed.
I suppose you believe Tybalt is dead as well?
Based on what we currently know, what they can’t do is increasing, and what they can do is decreasing, with each passing year.
There’s no way to say either way since we haven’t been introduced to them nor have any characters made mention of them yet.
They don’t represent all magic in Tyria.
The Bloodstones are not the embodiment of all magic on Tyria.
“In 1 BE, he (Abaddon) spread magic to the races of Tyria, and thus was indirectly responsible for the wars that came afterward. King Doric pleaded to the gods and they rendered magic into the five Bloodstones, diluting their gift.”
That pretty much encompasses all magic that doesn’t belong to the gods.
She wouldn’t. She’s looking for something else. The strongest leyline, which leads somewhere.
There’s no evidence to suggest otherwise. The theory that she’s using the probes to find Mordremoth is just as easily debunked by the fact that Sylvari are immune to dragon corruption.
@Mad Queen Malafide.7512:
All your arguments amount to “We cannot know therefore we’re guessing wildly”.
None of my argument amount to that at all! Have you even been reading my arguments?
All I’m saying is, this or that is wrong, because we DO know this and that for a fact. I’m not making any definitive statements about anything, except for the known facts.
I suppose you believe Tybalt is dead as well?
Tybalt IS dead. But Tybalt died on Tyria, not in the Mists. Once you die in the Mists, you are gone for good. Abaddon is dead,dead,dead,dead,dead,dead! I killed him myself.
There’s no way to say either way since we haven’t been introduced to them nor have any characters made mention of them yet.
We do have information about them from the writers.
“In 1 BE, he (Abaddon) spread magic to the races of Tyria, and thus was indirectly responsible for the wars that came afterward. King Doric pleaded to the gods and they rendered magic into the five Bloodstones, diluting their gift.”
That pretty much encompasses all magic that doesn’t belong to the gods.
You are wrong. There were after all other races before the humans, and they had magic too. So where did their magic come from? Not from the Bloodstones. We also know that the Elder Dragons leak magic into the land while they are asleep, so again, there’s plenty of magic on Tyria that does not originate from the Bloodstones.
There’s no evidence to suggest otherwise. The theory that she’s using the probes to find Mordremoth is just as easily debunked by the fact that Sylvari are immune to dragon corruption.
Eh, no, those two arguments aren’t even related. The Sylvari/dragon immunity argument directly counters the idea that Sylvari might be dragon minions. However, that does not contradict the idea that she might be looking for an Elder Dragon. I can’t even imagine how you could think that.
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D-On3Ya0_4Y)
(edited by Mad Queen Malafide.7512)
“In 1 BE, he (Abaddon) spread magic to the races of Tyria, and thus was indirectly responsible for the wars that came afterward. King Doric pleaded to the gods and they rendered magic into the five Bloodstones, diluting their gift.”
That pretty much encompasses all magic that doesn’t belong to the gods.
You are wrong. There were after all other races before the humans, and they had magic too. So where did their magic come from? Not from the Bloodstones. We also know that the Elder Dragons leak magic into the land while they are asleep, so again, there’s plenty of magic on Tyria that does not originate from the Bloodstones.
“1BE – The human gods give magic to the races of Tyria.”
“1BE – The human gods give magic to the races of Tyria.”
You conveniently left out the rest of the timeline there darling:
1 BE – The Human Gods give magic to the races of Tyria.
100 BE – Humans drive the charr out of Ascalon.
205 BE – Humans appear on the Tyrian continent. Founding of Orr.
1674 BE – Estimated date of Dwarven civilization’s birth according to Magister Sieran. (approx).
9,674 BE – Estimated date of previous Elder Dragon rise according to Varra Skylark. (approx).
10,000 BE – Last of the Giganticus Lupicus, the Great Giants, disappear from the Tyrian continent. (approx).
So the races of Tyria don’t receive magics until a hundred years after the humans have driven the Charr out of Ascalon. But what about the Jotun? What about the Forgotten and the dwarves? What about the Seers and the Mursaat? What about Giganticus Lupicus? And how often have the dragons risen and eradicated other civilisations?
In other words, the timeline is incomplete, because there were dozens of races that already had magic long before the human Gods came to Tyria and created the Bloodstones. In other words, the Bloodstones are not the only source of magic on Tyria! And you should know that, by the simple fact that the Elder Dragons predate the Bloodstones! So you are wrong.
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D-On3Ya0_4Y)
Because a few lines by a single writer in an obscure interview re magic.. on a French gaming site.. trumps years of lore development.
/golfclaps
Because a few lines by a single writer in an obscure interview re magic.. on a French gaming site.. trumps years of lore development.
/golfclaps
I have no idea what you are on about, but it’s simple logic. Just reading the GW timeline and using common sense, you know that the Bloodstones by definition can’t be the only source of magic on Tyria. The Elder Dragons themselves ooze magic, and they predate the Bloodstones by thousands of years.
Besides, we know that the Elder Dragons feed on magic, and that many ancient races have fought them and lost. Were the Elder Dragons on a magic-diet back then, and waiting for the human Gods to make them breakfast?
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D-On3Ya0_4Y)
Because a few lines by a single writer in an obscure interview re magic.. on a French gaming site.. trumps years of lore development.
/golfclaps
I have no idea what you are on about, but it’s simple logic. Just reading the GW timeline and using common sense, you know that the Bloodstones by definition can’t be the only source of magic on Tyria. The Elder Dragons themselves ooze magic, and they predate the Bloodstones by thousands of years.
Besides, we know that the Elder Dragons feed on magic, and that many ancient races have fought them and lost. Were the Elder Dragons on a magic-diet back then, and waiting for the human Gods to make them breakfast?
The sole source of Dragons feeding on magic, the ley lines, and that the old lore was “mistaken” is that single 2013 interview and a followup on these forums to rebut criticism of it, by the same writer followed by an extensive retcon of the Wiki.
(edited by Teofa Tsavo.9863)
That interview aside, there’s also the matter of the other races, such as the Mursaat and Forgotten, who also used magic. And that was long before the Bloodstones. So you don’t need a redcon from the writers in an interview to deduce that the Bloodstones can’t be the only source of magic on Tyria.
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D-On3Ya0_4Y)
That interview aside, there’s also the matter of the other races, such as the Mursaat and Forgotten, who also used magic. And that was long before the Bloodstones. So you don’t need a redcon from the writers in an interview to deduce that the Bloodstones can’t be the only source of magic on Tyria.
Interesting contrast to what you said 6 months ago in the linked topic.
“But what the interview implies, is that basically we could use magic whether the Gods removed it or not. Since magic is also possible without the bloodstones. Now we know that there was magic use before the bloodstones. But Prophecies is pretty clear on the source of human magic. You can’t just redcon all of Guild Wars 1 in one breath. Because that’s basically what such a statement is. It also diminishes the power of the human Gods, making them seem pretty insignificant.”
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/lore/lore/Angel-McCoy-Interview/first
Interesting contrast to what you said 6 months ago in the linked topic.
“But what the interview implies, is that basically we could use magic whether the Gods removed it or not. Since magic is also possible without the bloodstones. Now we know that there was magic use before the bloodstones. But Prophecies is pretty clear on the source of human magic. You can’t just redcon all of Guild Wars 1 in one breath. Because that’s basically what such a statement is. It also diminishes the power of the human Gods, making them seem pretty insignificant.”
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/lore/lore/Angel-McCoy-Interview/first
Haha. So you’re going to quote me on something I said at the start of a massive discussion on the topic of magic in the lore forum? Besides, you make it seem like I changed my mind, when in fact I didn’t. See the above highlighted part. ^
For shame darling, for shame.
You’re also quoting me out of context there. We already knew magic existed before the Bloodstones, but what we disagreed on what the origin of magic for humans. I felt that the writers saying that everyone has innate magic, devalued the influence of the Gods. That in no way contradicts what I said about the Bloodstones not being the source of all magic on Tyria.
Please address the argument.
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D-On3Ya0_4Y)
(edited by Mad Queen Malafide.7512)
She’s going to wake Mordremoth by messing with the ley lines – Mordy would’ve probably woken 50 years later, but the unnatural fluctuation/resonance of magic stirs him prematurely.
A fantasy of sci-fi cyborg implants grafted into the desiccated flesh of Guild Wars’ corpse.
I think Scarlet is a born rebel, and the moment the voice in her head even hinted that it was the boss of her, she dedicated her entire existence to KILLING IT.
I wonder what your basis for comparison is…”
- Jareth, King of Goblins.
Nah, it’s just Mordremoth’s reverse psychology. He makes her do what he wants by trying to force something on her he has the least interest in. By the time she realizes this, the dragon will have woken significantly ahead of time (I bet the news that the ‘ants’ had accomplished what no previous cycle could made him (and the other ED) quite antsy… lol). And as she starts to contemplate on her actions and grasp the fact that she’s been an expendable pawn of a larger force all along, she will die.
A fantasy of sci-fi cyborg implants grafted into the desiccated flesh of Guild Wars’ corpse.
Bloodstones not being the only source of magic in Tyria has been known for many many years, at least since Guild Wars Factions if not even earlier than that. It’s not something that appeared in Guild Wars 2 lore first.
Now on Scarlet:
In my very humble opinion, all Sylvari are minions of Mord, that “fought” their corruption thanks to Ventari (similar to how the Forgotten cured Glint), but that’s a completely different topic.
Based on her actions so far, Scarlet is a person who doesn’t want anyone to tell her what to do or how to live her life, that’s why she rejected the Dream. That’s why she never settled down with all the different teachers she had.
Do any of you honestly believe that a person like that works for someone else? At least not intentionaly of course, she might be manipulated but I doubt there is anyone out there that can directly command Scarlet. She is is the boss, not the one following orders.