Guild Wars 2

Just a quick suggestion, but wouldn’t it be possible to integrate information in a similar way as the Personal Story has these ‘log entries’?

I mean the system is in place but hardly in use at the moment. But if it were to become an actual journal that can grow. You could even have subsections in for the Living Story entries as they are progressing, how they might be interlinked, peoples and places entries etc. etc. which could grow and become something of an encyclopedia and a history book of Tyria. Now THAT (in my humble opinion) would really add value to a true living story, as then you have journal entries within the game that the player can read through.

To be honest, I didn’t have a clue as to who this Scarlet was and why I should care. And I’ve been with you guys since beta and have played every aspect of this game every single day since launch. So apparently these tidbits just don’t seem to cut it, or their impact is so minor that the majority of people will simply not deem them important enough to store in their memory.

So an interactive and ever-growing journal/diary might benefit 3 separate aspects. For starters it will build on the already ‘Personal Storyline’ entries, it provides additional background information as to the ‘who is this, what kitten ed them off, what’s my part in this and why I should care’ and such and lastly it will give the player a sense of being a part of this world because the journal entries reflect their own adventures whilst participating in these story events.

Just my jumbled view on this (it’s 6am so forgive me if it sounds a little messy)

(offtopic) It’s awesome to see E. Roberts in this thread! The Wing Commander series was among my most treasured series of games I’ve ever played! Please also thank your brother for giving me such an awesome time and fond memories!

• I didn’t like the movie though which looked more like ‘submarines in space’ with some wierd Pilgrim plot, funky Rapiers firing bullets and sounded like an old VW Beetle and character type mistakes (Deveraux was french, not Paladin). If you guys ever go for a sequel, please make it a reboot based on the true events with the original ship designs and character archetypes from the game!!

enamel.6239:

Elbegast.6970:

There’s a good chance you wouldn’t be in your position if not for my career.

Did you have to dislocate your own shoulder to pat yourself on the back with such furious vigor?

How did you get a computer all the way up on that high, high horse of yours?

Um, if I caught the references correctly this man is the brother of https://robertsspaceindustries.com/about-the-game , All bow down in AWE and cry “We’re not worthy, we’re not worthy!”

I think that more books in carts could be good, but alot of people are lazy with reading after being spoiled with speech dialogs. I do think however that books would be in line with the world and how it is built. It makes sense that people would write books and many lore-thirsty players would read them, take them into account and make them more easilly accessible to other players in various forms.

Another idea would be asuran audio matrices. It would cost you alot more to put into the game since you need voice acting and recording. But basically they would be audio books. So in other words they’d apply to a wider audience but would sadly cost more time, resources and money. Portals and waypoints are everywhere and asuran people seem to interact neutrally (well… they’re at least not trying to kill you) with everyone and it makes sense that people would access audio matrices. They also already have video recording devices so why not audio, which would be easier.

Video logs would be very neat for living story, but would of course require alot of time and money. They are already in the game in Metrica Province at asuran labs that have recorded messages and stuff. But as they would be expensive for you, they probably would be for the tyrian people too.

Marjory’s Journal as someone mentioned before was very nice. The problem is that it takes up an inventory slot and was given to the people that completed the storyline. Items like that could be given / sold / whatever in a library.

Elbegast.6970:

It’s my very good pleasure to meet you, as well. I’m glad you enjoyed Brute Force. It holds a special place in my heart. I’m very proud of it’s unique squad-based gameplay. I only wish it would have sold more copies but I suppose that is a wish shared by most developers in regards to their creations. ; )

To sell some games you need to get down from your high horses and face reality from it’s own level.
Comments like “You have me to thank for your career” only makes you look bad and earn you disgust and boycott.
And to accuse Bobby Stein of condescension when he talks in plain normal down-to-earth english as one human being to another shows you that you have to take some focus away from yourself and see how the world really works.

Personally I think he has some very valid points that I think you fail to see because you’re too full of yourself.
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Back on topic. You can’t catch all details about the story if you aren’t looking for them. Wooden Potatoes on youtube really shows how much story you can get out of GW2 once you actually look for it.
Not everything is written in plain text, some things are shown with throwing in Aetherblades with Steam Creatures or calling Shodd an Admiral.
Some things are said by NPCs that walk around randomly and don’t seem to have any significance.

I won’t say that I’m satisfied with the amount of lore I’ve gotten because I’m thirsty. But I’ll wait patiently and see what happens.
I do however agree completely that Canach seems pretty forgotten. But something might turn up later, what do I know.

But the main point is that you can’t get it all at once.

I don’t mind a bigger storyline the unfolds over time, but there has to be foreshadowing. At the moment it just feels like that ANet is writing the story as they go along.

Sure you can say now that Scarlet was behind all of it, but we had no clues as to her existence before she showed up. It’s not enough that you expand her background now. There has be hints that there exists this character and you need to leave us clues to make the connection beforehand.

You get what I’m saying? We don’t have foreshadowing that it was specifically her. It could’ve been revealed that the Kingpin of Quaggan under the name Scarlet was the mastermind behind the attacks and it would’ve been just as “planned”.

I dunno, maybe I’m not explaining myself very clearly.

I posted a similar thought when the Last Stand at Southsun was going on with Canach showing a few different variations they could incorporate into the Hero Panel: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/suggestions/My-Story-Expanded-Living-Story-Concept/first#post2137462

In the post I had how they could replay cinematics like Marjory’s Journal, replaying old boss events like Canach, as well as include the website background posts they make.

Bobby!!!! Youve broken my gw2 players heart!!! I wanted in game lore books for soooooooooooooo longgggggg

BobbyStein.2315:

The original plan was to have in-game books somewhat like the ones made available in the GW1 Bonus Mission Pack content. We wrote nearly 100 of them but were unable to implement them due to the book tech getting cut from development in the months leading up to GW2’s release. We may revisit the idea one day.

FYI I’ve began assembling a crack squad of ex commandos to break into your office and get those never published bits of lore for my reading pleasure and insane speculation purposes.

About foreshadowing.. It can work to your disadvantage too.
If you were an evil mastermind that’s actually somewhat sane for once..
Would you throw out alot of hints that you were behind several attacks or would you stay as hidden as you could until you unveil the main act?
In my case it would be the second.
You shouldn’t be aware of what hits you before it hits you. Otherwise you could prepare for it and counter it and that wouldn’t be very good.

On the other hand I’m not sure whether that applies to this story.
Scarlet isn’t sane.

But my point is that I’d rather have it with real logics than with movie logics where the villain throw hints all around him/her. And keeps the hero hostage and avoids killing him/her with the purpose of him/her being able to get away…

However as you guys say it still requires planning and as you guys say I can agree that it feels a bit like the story is written as you go.

In ANet’s defense, they’re still pretty new to the living story and might not have that much to go on yet.

It would be interesting to know how the story is actually written.
They have 4 living story teams if I remember it right. But do all these then get together and write stories or do it on their own according to common guidelines or is there a separate story group that they will need to listen to?
I think that the story could benefit from having a separate group that takes care of the story and the 4 groups do the implementation of the story rather than having all 4 groups coming up with their own story for each update. Then again I don’t know how they are working at all.

Real-life major villians don’t just pop up out of nowhere with the massive forces Scarlet has shown she is capable of deploying. Where are they getting their food, for example?

BobbyStein.2315:

It seems like there’s some misunderstanding regarding the purpose of the short stories that we publish on the Web site. They are not meant to “write outside the game” such that the game is unplayable without them, nor are they meant to provide vital information to the in-game story for a particular Living World release. They are purely optional stories meant to provide additional context and lore for those who care. If we felt that the inclusion of this information was critical to understanding the plot or playing the content then we would put it inside the game, plain and simple.

And yet, if you want to see Scarlet as anything more than a teenage Harley Quinn with no Joker to adore, you need to read her short story – and for that short story to not make her out to be a Villain Sue, you must listen to the recent “TowerTalk interview”:

To realize that the Zephyrites are not something pulled out of thin air in a very literal sense, you need to read the journal short story (which you cannot even get to in the News archive on the main site).

To know of the interaction between Kiel and Kasmeer/Faren, you must read the Welcome to Paradise short story.

Are these things needed to understand the main plot? No. But they are needed to understand the characters of the main plot. Otherwise you may as well provide the story in the form of stick figures with names floating over their heads and monotonous voices (aka all voiced by Trahearne!).

Some of the short stories – the ones on Rox, Braham, Canach, Marjory, and Kiel’s pasts are very much just flavor text, and they’re fine not in the story. But the ones I mentioned – What Scarlet Saw, Trek of the Zephyrites, Welcome to Paradise, etc. – are very much needed in the story, if you want to understand the story’s characters themselves (the last mentioned, least so though). If you want to have any depth to Kiel and the others, you need them. Rox and Braham have depth even without them, since their stories’ events are mentioned in-game (much like how the main events of the three novels got placed in the game here and there).

The “A Message from the Queen” I didn’t even see or know about until today, and I try to keep tabs on all the lore stories provided. That should have and easily could have been provided as a mere mail message like the ones from Faren and Scarlet.

BobbyStein.2315:

On a related note, some of the lore stories use imagery or situations that would be more difficult, time consuming, or expensive to replicate in the game. Some wouldn’t add anything meaningful to gameplay. So if you’re finding it stressful that these optional pieces exist external to a Living World release, I suggest not reading them.

That feels very… negative? Poor? Unprofessional?

“if you don’t like it, don’t do it” – but what if I don’t like how it’s done, but want to know what’s being presented anyways? I don’t like it how it is, but I do want it.

And besides, some of the short stories could have easily been placed into the game – Trek of the Zephyrites? A new interactive book object in the Durmand Priory library (or multiple if need-be). Welcome to Paradise? That would have taken a bit more effort, best placed as an intro instance like the one made for the Bazaar of the Four Winds. What Scarlet Saw? A journal item dropped by Scarlet during one of the invasions, just change the writing to first person.

They don’t need to add anything to the gameplay. They add something to the story, and that’s enough to include them in the game. Or does ArenaNet no longer care about their lore?

Nonetheless, that very last sentence there? Really reduces your credibility.

-more in next post-

BobbyStein.2315:

It’s understandable why some people would be upset or impatient by not getting these details all at once, but rest assured that we’re not conveniently forgetting about these tidbits—we’re just saving them for later.

What’s upsetting most people – myself included – is not the lack of details so much as the details we’re given make her to be a flat character with an annoying personality, with actions that are contradictory to her stated goals, with a past that makes her very Villain Sue-like.

And you have to keep in mind that even though you claim otherwise, a lot of important things are left open-ended. Take, for example, Canach’s Fused Gauntlets. We had to be told in a forum post that he got them from raiding a Molten Facility, and that in the time since The Lost Shores he was being chased by the Consortium (learned only in the short story) and turned to make himself a self-proclaimed “protector of the people” (only learned in the forum post – because let’s face it, his actions in Secret of Southsun/Last Stand at Southsun show that he doesn’t really care for “the people”). We had so little of Canach’s story in the game itself, it made him feel like a flat and unimportant figure. But for those who delved into it, there was plenty to be found. This is one of the main issues of the Living Story – and the main reason why Wooden Potatoes’ Living Story recap videos are so fascinating to people. He tells the story far better than the game does, and people like him for that.

Sure, you don’t need to know those facts to play through the story or understand the main plot. But you need them to be interested in the main plot. And that’s the key fact you guys are missing out on, and what all your “don’t tell them everything in the game (yet)” ruins – our interest, not our comprehension.

Oh, and regarding your pacing… I suggest you slow down the content just a tad bit. Because lets face it – the content going away every month, with new and equal amount of content every two weeks (the second update of the month only lasting 2 weeks)… that’s going to burn players out. Sure, you got a rise of players now, but what about when they’re burned out?

I love the game, I love the story, though I’m sad in the direction the story’s going in the apparent retcons that I’ve seen happening (see this interview here which seems to retcon everything and anything about the Bloodstones and magic as presented in GW1), and though I’d like to consider myself a casual player I’m more than likely a hardcore player… but even I’m starting to get burned out at this point. With the SAB stuff – which I thought was merely an April’s Fools joke (and now it seems there _was no April’s Fools joke!) and with which the content is 99.99% an orgyfest of popcultural references (more so than anything else in GW2, which is saying a lot) – I’m just burned out already. And seeing all those achievements, including the ones I missed previously because at that point achievement points didn’t matter (and don’t say “you don’t have to do it” – I’m a completionist by nature, and I feel the need to complete the metas at the very least)… it’s just too much.

And now that the SAB, what was previously to be taken as purely a joke on 90s video games (which as a joke I LOVED), as serious content with a real story and being canon to lore… I just… I feel like closing out of Guild Wars. And maybe it’s because it started out as seemingly pure joke content, that I feel absolutely no strive to try and find that story hidden at the end of the content.

Like I said, I love the game and the lore, I’ve been part of the community since Dragon Festival 2006, and I have remained as strong a part of the community as I could be, being part of the Test Krewe and other NDA stuff, expanding the wikis as much as possible, and participating in all events I could. So I’m still holding out hope, but honestly, all I see ever since the end of Flame and Frost, has been more negative points to enjoyment than positive points. Yes, there’s some good stuff, but the story definitely does not contain many of those positive points.

-more in next post-

BobbyStein.2315:

Actually, there are a lot more details in the game than you realize. Either you’re not catching them because they are subtle, or you may have missed the content entirely. I’m not sure in your case because I have no idea what you’ve played, what you’ve seen, or what you remember.

Some people understand what’s going on, others don’t, and some of that is due to a distinct lack of direction in regards to experiencing the Living World story. We’ve been aware of that limitation since day one, and we’re currently working on a system to address that before the end of the year. I sympathize with that. Trust me.

I think the problem with the “tidbits” is the pacing and temporariness. And that they’re a bit too subtle in cases (made worse with the temporariness).

Things need to be in the game longer, especially the more subtle things. And things happen with too much in too little time. You basically give us 10-20 achievements to do, on top of the story itself, which again is on top of the “subtle tidbits” – which in turn is on top of the mini-games you introduce each month (sometimes more than one), and effectively give us only two weeks to do all of that.

The hardcore players will end up skipping over those tidbits. The casual players won’t have the chance to get at them because they’re too busy doing the more obviously-to-do things.

I cannot think of any system that can explain it, other than you telling us everything and not giving us a chance to find it out for ourselves. Like those guides you post for the content, before the content’s even released.

SpeedFiend.4521:

BobbyStein.2315:

The original plan was to have in-game books somewhat like the ones made available in the GW1 Bonus Mission Pack content. We wrote nearly 100 of them but were unable to implement them due to the book tech getting cut from development in the months leading up to GW2’s release. We may revisit the idea one day.

FYI I’ve began assembling a crack squad of ex commandos to break into your office and get those never published bits of lore for my reading pleasure and insane speculation purposes.

In 1272 , a Krewe commando unit was sent to prison by an Asuran court for a crime they didn’t commit. These men promptly escaped from a maximum-security laboratory to the Lion’s Arch underground. Today, still wanted by the government, they survive as soldiers of fortune. If you have a problem…if no one else can help…and if you can find them…maybe you can hire…The K-Team.

BobbyStein.2315:

The original plan was to have in-game books somewhat like the ones made available in the GW1 Bonus Mission Pack content. We wrote nearly 100 of them but were unable to implement them due to the book tech getting cut from development in the months leading up to GW2’s release. We may revisit the idea one day.

Hm what could be the reason to cut that book tech? Were there mission attached to it?

BobbyStein.2315:

If you only knew how hard we’ve been working these past six years…

I want to believe that, I really do but this interview happened:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/lore/Angel-McCoy-Interview/first

BobbyStein.2315:

Diovid.9506:

BobbyStein.2315:

If you only knew how hard we’ve been working these past six years…

I want to believe that, I really do but this interview happened:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/lore/Angel-McCoy-Interview/first

Angel drafted a follow up to this interview that will be posted soon. It’ll put some things into perspective.

Thanks for the fast reply and I appreciate the fact that Angel is taking the time to respond to all the questions the interview raised. I look forward to it.

Ok now THIS is the transparency I always wanted from the devs, thank you so much for your clarification Bobby!! It’s really nice to see why there is no such thing in the game yet and what the problems are to create it. You also clearly mentioned your priorities (specifically told us the project which is in progress), it makes MUCH more sense now.

“Would I like us to provide in-game books so interested players can immerse themselves in the history of Tyria and the important characters of each release? Hell, yes! I’ve been asking for them for years.”

Thank you!! So we can’t expect it soon but you clearly want to make it happen. I wish you good luck so that you can realise this in the future.

Diovid.9506:

BobbyStein.2315:

If you only knew how hard we’ve been working these past six years…

I want to believe that, I really do but this interview happened:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/lore/Angel-McCoy-Interview/first

I don’t get it, can you clarify what you mean? Angel talking about magic in Tyria somehow related to the devs working the past six years?

BobbyStein.2315:

Will we eventually create these books? I hope so. But for the immediate needs of the Living World story, a tracking system is more important, followed by some type of journal support. We’ll build those first before committing to anything like books because our lack of a LW tracking system is making it difficult for people to follow the LW story, plain and simple.

It’s somewhat annoying to consider that maybe rushing to a solution now would lead to further problems later on; maybe there would be an elegant solution to the books issue that would also work for the LW journal, but rushing to get the journal out now would prevent people from finding the best solution. And with something else in place, adding proper support for books would demand the addition of a second new mechanic, as opposed to unifying everything under a single system.

IMO, this is the kind of thing the Hero panel should be used for, as mentioned above. We already have a “My Story” tab to keep players up to date with their own personal storyline, in case they forget it. It would be logical to have a “Living Story” tab using a very similar interface, telling people about the happenings of the Living World.

Pacifica.9576:

Seems like putting a book in Durmand Priory would be the most logical answer

I wish they would make the orders more important and integral to all things. The Durmand Priory are there and this would be a great way to have the stories available.

And the other point I agree with is that things shouldn’t just appear and disappear with no explanation. The rebuilding of the fountain after mad king was great. The appearance and disappearance of other things is contrary to making an immersible experience.

BobbyStein.2315:

I suppose I haven’t explained this clearly enough. We don’t have UI or tech to do this. The only thing we can do in the game currently is attach a short description to an object that is triggered by interaction (F to read, for example) or put that information inside a conversation tree. Those are our options. Neither solution is ideal for large chunks of text due to size limitations and usability restrictions. We’ve used both approaches on occasion to present details as you’ve described. But these current solutions are hard limited with how much we can display onscreen. They aren’t really appropriate for the amount of text information we’d put in proper books.

In other words, we can’t put these short stories into game UI because none currently exists that would support it. I know that sounds odd since we’re essentially talking about showing text in a window, but it’s a bit more complex than that. There is a lot of design, programming, and art that goes into building a system like this.

Do we turn the book into an item? If so, is it stored in your inventory? Do we build a separate tab for book storage? Is there value attached to it? Can you trade it with other players? How many characters per page are we limited to? How many pages? Does it have image attachment support? How would you navigate the pages? Does it scale from lowest to highest resolution properly with word wrap? Would we simply convert the Bonus Mission Pack book design over, or are there restrictions or dependencies with GW2 code that would make it difficult and time consuming? Can we attach items to the books? Can they be used to replay content or watch cinematics? These are just a fraction of the things that go into building a new feature.

You seem to really misunderstand my point, Bobby. My point can be dumbed down to this sentence:

It doesn’t matter how it’s in the game, just that the main facts gained are in the game.

Take, for example, Ghosts of Ascalon. In my opinion, bringing the main facts from this novel into the game was done perfectly – or at least nearly so. You have, in the game:

• The main plot of the later half of the novel summarized by Dougal Keane in Fort Marriner.
• The Secluded Glen with Gullik and Killeen’s grave, and the priestess, to show that plot point (Killeen’s death) as well as the character interaction between Gullik and Kileen.
• And you have the Plinth on the Viewing Hill to retell Frye’s witness of the Foefire events.
• You also have Ember in the Summit Peak which tells her relevance to the peace accords.

In these four things, you present: 1) the main plot and purpose of the novel (via Dougal and Ember); 2) half of the events of the Foefire (just missing Savione’s relevance); and 3) the characters’ interactions with each other (via Dougal and Gullik)

This kind of thing is really all you need to show in the game. You don’t need the stories themselves in the game – in fact, I’d find that would lower the quality, with the exception of the Trek of the Zephyrites which as I suggested could be those interactive object books (“press F to read”) in multiple volumes if need be just like how The Founding was done in Ebonhawke – and that kind of transition works because it is already in journal format, rather than a narrative.

Another good example which was actually done with the short stories, are the first two: Braham’s Story and Rox’s Tale. Why? Because we learned the main points – not everything, but the main points – to Braham’s Story in his instances during the story itself; and with Rox’s Tale, we learned the main point (she’s a gladium, her warband died in a mining accident) in North Nolan Hatchery by one of the NPCs after the F&F activities.

This is what I was meaning. We don’t need the stories themselves in the game, per se, we need the main facts derived from it – the facts which give the characters context – in the game itself. Each story could have gotten its facts put into the game in different, already-existing, means.

-more in next post-

And the reason why it’s important to do is because, well, I’ll use Scarlet as my argument.

In game, we can learn that Scarlet excelled through all three asuran colleges (and rather showed off to the asura in doing so) and that she was norn-, charr-, and hylek-trained on top of that. We’re also told she claims to have seen the Eternal Alchemy. Felt like it pushing it, but alright. In What Scarlet Saw, we get more of this.

She was a pupil of the legendary norn blacksmith, but refused his full teachings. She was a pupil of a charr sniper and left with the charr’s secrets. She learned from hyleks “just because” even though they gave her little to it. And she studied from all three colleges with the Arcane Council begrudgingly accepting her… And then we see what she saw when she “witnessed the Eternal Alchemy.”

Then in an interview with Scott and Angel, from my understanding (I haven’t listened to it and instead got a run down by a guildie), some of these things got clarified – she didn’t do full college coursework, but instead a special academic course system. She only believes to have seen the Eternal Alchemy, though she may actually have, as she was put into what sounds to be a sensory deprivation.

In the end, what we see in game is: a teenage-sounding sylvari of utmost annoyance, little depth to her character, and supposedly shows off to asura, learned from most major races that have something to share, and supposedly saw the knowledge-of-everything.

What we see in the short story: she learned from only 1 norn, only 1 charr, 1 hylek tribe, and had to haggle her way into the colleges, and saw what appears to be the fate and purpose of the sylvari – not all things.

What we learn from the interview: her college experience wasn’t a full experience but specialized; and she might not have seen what she believes she saw (aka what she saw could have been a hallucination of sorts – or just an misinterpretation).

I get that you want to “pace the story” and the characters’ development, but this isn’t pacing the story – this is revealing it in different locations. And if you’ve paid attention to how people view WoodenPotatoes and why they like his videos, you would know that this is a bad idea. Because people can get interested in the story, but they don’t go out to listen to obscure interviews.

The information gained from the interview should have somehow made its way either into the game (preferably) or that short story. Without that interview, Scarlet sounds like a Villain Sue, arguably more so without that short story (though also arguably more so with that short story).

You “pace” the story, but you introduce your main villain as a five-minute wonder. I’ve talked to friends and even the ones who enjoyed Scarlet said that she got boring fast, simply because she had no depth hinted to her – mind you, some of these folks didn’t read the story (afaik) or listen to the interview (as it was before said interview). And THAT is why these things need to be in the game. You don’t need to flesh everything about Scarlet out – that’d be bland if you intend to keep her for a while. But you have to flesh her out enough so that she doesn’t come off as a 5-minute wonder. Hint to her depth, not ignore it until later. That depth isn’t hinted at until the interview, which is just bad.

-more in next post too-

BobbyStein.2315:

Konig Des Todes.2086:

Or does ArenaNet no longer care about their lore?

If you only knew how hard we’ve been working these past six years…

If I was asked how Anet cares for their lore three months ago, I would say that they take the utmost care in it. That they don’t retcon anything, but if they do want to change things they make legitimate and well-thought out explanations for why there’s change. I know for a fact that in the past Jeff Grubb himself went on to explain how something widely taken to be a retcon-during-development was not so.

But lately, the story feels more comedy than seriousness. You set up a dark toned world (world-ending monsters on the horizon, undead plaging the shores, crystalline monstrosities wrecking havoc, etc.), but then you fill the main story with puns and pop-culture jokes; every other character is a comedy routine befitting Bulk and Skull from the original Power Rangers. Sometimes I even hear their themesong playing in my head when the more comedic characters come out.

The flavor of the lore has changed drastically from GW1.

And that’s not even touching the blatant lore conundrums that GW2 – and especially the Living Story and interviews since – has introduced. Some of which outright don’t make sense, some can but feel over the top, and some are feeling like a swift kick in GW1’s lore’s gonads. Just browse some of the lore forum’s more recent threads and you’ll see how the more active folks of the lore community are feeling as the Living Story carries on.

Personally, I was able to overlook those issues that were presented in the initial GW2 release, especially the comedic volume. But the Living Story’s just taking it to another level with our Super Pop Culture Jokes Box.

And don’t get me wrong – I’ve loved the lore of Guild Wars since I started playing. So it’s very painful to see, let alone say, that the lore’s value is dropping. It’s like standing on the bedside of my best friend whom I’ve known since I was a little kid as he’s dying of an incurable disease. It just kittening hurts.

BobbyStein.2315:

I think the biggest challenge for the writers right now is getting enough story into each release such that people can understand where we’re going with everything. The fact of the matter is that we have a short amount of time to write, voice, and implement the content for each LW release (3 months on average up to maybe 4 months under ideal conditions). We also have limits in how much written and voiced content we can handle each month (text and VO budgets, essentially) due to limited resources (i.e. people) and a fixed deadline.

Then why give yourself such a short timeframe? It’s not like we got folks going “YOU MUST MAKE THINGS COME OUT FAST FOR US RAWR!!!!!”

I know a lot of folks complained that Flame and Frost felt like it was slow, but that was because the first two months we got next to nothing compared to other content updates. Rather than having an update every two weeks, wouldn’t it make more sense to have it once a month? Each “chapter” (aka Living Story team’s content) taking up 2 months’ time?

This would effectively double the time to write, voice, and overall improve the content. And it gives players more time to do the new content – temporary and permanent – which in turn lessens the feeling of being burned out that I mentioned before. I know Colin at PAX said that you’ve had a rise in players while the Living Story has been out at such a rate, but think about it… you’re forcing players to remain active or risk losing out on the story and content. You’re punishing the players for not playing – which is just as bad as playing a subscription game which punishes players for not playing (though in a different way – by taking money).

If you look at the forums, I think it’d be pretty clear that players are starting to get burned out. A little slower for better and more content wouldn’t hurt anyone. I sincerely suggest you consider such an option before the playerbase starts dropping like flies.

BobbyStein.2315:

In the LW, you consume it at ours and I think that’s hard for many people to get used to, especially since we don’t have the right tracking system in place yet.

If you ask me, what’s hard for players is that too much of the content disappears. If you don’t play now, then it’s gone forever.

This post highlights the problem very well in my opinion. I suggest reading through it.

-one more post coming-

BobbyStein.2315:

I’m happy to say that these comments haven’t fallen on deaf ears. I’ve been in many meetings about these very concerns. We have some solutions planned, but they will take time to build. I can’t be more specific than that.

I’m sure I mentioned it before, but one suggestion I would have is to have the instances of the Living Story (dungeons included, though perhaps revamped for solo-play) and have these instances a continuation of the personal story – during release, the instances are open to all; after release, you must go through all content (personal story->Flame and Frost->etc.) in order.

It would also create a good reason to go back and improve old content (there are some fights in the personal story which are fairly boring; and I’m not only talking about the one with Zhaitan).

Erasculio.2914:

BobbyStein.2315:

Will we eventually create these books? I hope so. But for the immediate needs of the Living World story, a tracking system is more important, followed by some type of journal support. We’ll build those first before committing to anything like books because our lack of a LW tracking system is making it difficult for people to follow the LW story, plain and simple.

It’s somewhat annoying to consider that maybe rushing to a solution now would lead to further problems later on; maybe there would be an elegant solution to the books issue that would also work for the LW journal, but rushing to get the journal out now would prevent people from finding the best solution. And with something else in place, adding proper support for books would demand the addition of a second new mechanic, as opposed to unifying everything under a single system.

Seconded.

P.S., I really wish the forum would allow larger posts.

BobbyStein.2315:

Konig Des Todes.2086:

I think the problem with the “tidbits” is the pacing and temporariness. And that they’re a bit too subtle in cases (made worse with the temporariness).

Things need to be in the game longer, especially the more subtle things. And things happen with too much in too little time. You basically give us 10-20 achievements to do, on top of the story itself, which again is on top of the “subtle tidbits” – which in turn is on top of the mini-games you introduce each month (sometimes more than one), and effectively give us only two weeks to do all of that.

The hardcore players will end up skipping over those tidbits. The casual players won’t have the chance to get at them because they’re too busy doing the more obviously-to-do things.

I cannot think of any system that can explain it, other than you telling us everything and not giving us a chance to find it out for ourselves. Like those guides you post for the content, before the content’s even released.

Understood. I am hopeful that some of the new systems that we have in development (the LW tracking system, journal tracking, etc.) will make it easier for folks to make sense of the long-term story.

I think the biggest challenge for the writers right now is getting enough story into each release such that people can understand where we’re going with everything. The fact of the matter is that we have a short amount of time to write, voice, and implement the content for each LW release (3 months on average up to maybe 4 months under ideal conditions). We also have limits in how much written and voiced content we can handle each month (text and VO budgets, essentially) due to limited resources (i.e. people) and a fixed deadline.

The LW story pacing is very slow in that it takes months for all the pieces to come together, whereas in the core game everything is available at once and you simply play through it in the proper order until you reach the conclusion. You consume it at your own pace. In the LW, you consume it at ours and I think that’s hard for many people to get used to, especially since we don’t have the right tracking system in place yet.

You’re right in that the temporary nature of the previous content also made it hard to experience at a comfortable pace. Some people raced through the content in an hour or two and then complained that the update wasn’t big enough. Others didn’t know where to go or what to do first. Some people missed it completely and lost out on a piece of the story that they can’t experience unless we bring it back or give them a mechanism to play it outside of the release window.

I’m happy to say that these comments haven’t fallen on deaf ears. I’ve been in many meetings about these very concerns. We have some solutions planned, but they will take time to build. I can’t be more specific than that.

I don’t expect you or anyone else to change your opinions based on this information. You’ll just have to wait and see what happens. If these new story bits and features improve the game for you, then I’ll be happy that we’re making the game better for everyone. If they don’t, then I’d like to know why so we can figure out ways to improve.

Everything you’re saying really punctuates the downside to the two week release approach. It’s so evident that you need to slow down and let people experience the game, while giving yourselves sometime to develop some meaningful content. The shallowness of the content and the discontentment over its temporal nature need not be reiterated. I’m not sure who is in charge of these things from your end, but they must realize they’re missing the mark here. By your words alone, that should be telling that it needs to slow down. Please hammer this point home to whoever needs it. Please rally support at ArenaNet to get things slowed down. Combining your sentiment with the fact that we STILL don’t have new permanent content should be a sign to the powers that be. Something needs to change. I’m glad at least you acknowledge that.

I agree with König, your pace is a bit too fast and a lot of players & developers would like to see it a bit slower. How about 3 weeks?!

A suggestion how you could improve lore distribution: having npcs/static books in the world who/which tell stories is ok imho (still better than nothing at all), but it would be better if each of those dialogues would unlock an corresponding entry in a compendium. Here you would have these entries sorted in chapters in an order that makes sense and people would see which lore tidbits they still haven’t found.

You mentioned a page limit to these ingame books. A simple solution would be that you make more than 1 volume. Split up longer stories to a few volumes and you’ll never have to worry about the page limit. It also makes it more interesting, because people have to find each of the chapters first in order to get the whole story (—> collectible, great). Important: it should be easy to read these in the correct order, so static books which you can’t take with you in different locations would be bad.

Not much I can add on here, as Konig has stated almost every possible problem I’ve concerns with.

I’ve seen many people quit because of the direction the game is taking. You can see it here, in reddit, in Guild Wars 2 guru and many more places… a lot of players are getting burned down by this living story and the rate it is being thrown at us. I know you guys are taking pride -judging by the sheer amount of interviews and the blog post- about the bi-weekly schedule because no one else does it. But you have to ask yourselves: is it really the right thing for our playerbase, for our developers and for our game? Players are getting burned down, developers seem more pressured/sloppy and the game is losing quality.

Bobby, if you would please take a look at these examples:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/livingworld/lwd/A-not-so-living-world/first#post2803305

• Yes, blatantly promoting my thread there, but those are my concerns regarding the topic at hand. I know in some of my points there’s logic to it. Like not bringing The Pact or the Orders into this living story, or not giving further development to some, like the Zephyrites (whom I hope we hear from not in a year, but sooner since it was really interesting). But they feel dead as of now. No communication, no news. They’re frozen in time. The intention was to make a living world, but in my eyes its more like giving birth on top of a dead body. Yes, that’s gruesome.

The point being, personal story and everything else before, almost never blends with the living story in a significant way. Its just covering layers over it. Best example being the invasions to give “life” to the older-dead maps in some way.

Don’t let the Pride drown the game.

P.S. Mainly talking on how lore/story is delivered and how it evolves. Mechanics, technology and whatnot is constantly improving, and happy about it.

One thing summed it up was when I bring new players into the game and they quickly pick up the idea of the Elder Dragons as the enemy from the world and NPCs and quests etc around them.

Then an invasion happens and they ask about Scarlet. For a new players, they have no idea about someone who is a major villain right now. Frankly, if I hadn’t read the story on the website, I’d know next to nothing about her either. How many others know of the existence of the stories? I really can’t get my head round why lore is there and not in game. Earlier lore exists in game – GW1 Prophecies/Destinys Edge/Rise of the Dragons etc etc. Current lore doesn’t seem to “stick”. Absolutely no lore should ever be communicated exclusively outside of the game.

How to do it? Well it’s clear technical limitations bar it. Better storytelling in each chapter will help. I’m inclined to believe this is not due to your writers, but the pressure and time restraints on them. I’d rather have amazing story every 1-2 months than the confusing threads we have now.

The book idea was excellent. It would give a reason to regularly visit the Durmond Library or a reason to have heralds. I recently did the explorer achievement for reading all the Ebonhwake books. THAT was fun, well written/constructed and informative lore wise. Maybe something like the GW1 dungeon books, where you handed them in to a herald to update your story so far.

Maybe something could be developed in the achievement panel as similar to the personal story – post dating for anyone missing earlier chapters. That would fill in key storylines and characters.

I’ve no idea whether those fall under the technical restraints you have, but I’d say this issue should be a priority right now since I’m surprised it wasn’t added in before LS was (seemingly) rushed out.

After reading Konigs summary on Scarlet, I’ve learned more about her than I did in the entirety she’s been in the game.

Is that a bad thing?

Randulf.7614:

Absolutely no lore should ever be communicated exclusively outside of the game.

This is basically the core point I was trying to make in regards to the short stories.

When you show us the facts in short stories, be sure to tell us the facts in-game at the same time.

Format doesn’t matter so much as it exists, and if it’s temporary it must be plainly noticeable, and it must be permanent if it’s subtle.

And if the lore is meant to be an observable thing – like the Aetherblades stealing parts of the hologram projectors during Dragon Bash/Sky Pirates in Tyria, then have a post-content NPC to make note of it, under the same rules as stated (permanent if subtle, plainly noticeable if temporary).

Antara.3189:

After reading Konigs summary on Scarlet, I’ve learned more about her than I did in the entirety she’s been in the game.

Is that a bad thing?

Case. In. Point.

BobbyStein.2315:

I’m happy to say that these comments haven’t fallen on deaf ears. I’ve been in many meetings about these very concerns. We have some solutions planned, but they will take time to build. I can’t be more specific than that.

If you don’t have the technical solutions available now, you should look at other methods of addressing these concerns.

If the 2 week cycle is too much, then lengthen it to 3-4 weeks. At this point, it just seems like needless pride for Anet to keep bragging about its 2 week cycle when its just a mess. The content could use more polish, the players could use more time (on average, obviously some just rush through everything), the pace of the story needs slowing, etc.

Just hiding behind the excuse the technology is not ready is terrible. You, Anet, have to adapt to the limitations of what you have to work with. Instead, you expect the players to shoulder the burden of content that’s pushed out too fast and for too short a period of a time.

Joiry.2504:

the pace of the story needs slowing, etc.

To this, I disagree. At the current pace of the story, it feels like we’re going to be stuck with Scarlet for two years if not far more. And with how linear the “living world story” is thus far, this is far from enjoyable.

That is to say, I would like the content updates to slow down, but not the plot itself. Because it feels like it’s being paced a little too slowly. Which, to me, just makes it relatively boring after a while.

I think this is a great idea, and would allow a lot more people to enjoy the Living Story concept. I am able to follow along, you just need to take the time and pause to see whats going on.

I think that the newspaper idea could also be a great addition, as long as people would be allowed to access pasted articles in case they wanted to fill in gaps.

First, I am more into WvW and spvp, BUT interessting stories/cutscenes or some events I like, too
…but mostly wont have the time to play them at the current pace
…and often even would like to skip the whole time-consumeing pve-mob-bashing/dungeon crawling around the story itself.
…like to experience/read them in my “personal order” (like skipping chapters in a book)

I am not saying slow it down, nor do I believe that the temporariness of those living stories is bad at all or that you should eliminate the mobs for me… ^^

BUT I strongly believe there should be a way to keep some “essence of those stories” or history / lore in the game. Kinda like in RL people have tendencies to not let go of some of their tales (ie. old people always telling their war stories like it was yesterday).

The tech needed is already in place as some players mentioned:
My history tab
Could be expanded with a “MY living world” tab.
—> Compressing the whole LS-chapters into brief paragraphs with links and act like a “newspaper” directing us (…hinting) to npcs (heralds, heroes or books) with further information.

—> Even “store” additional infos we might have gathered ourselves (i.e. tied together with some of the achievement we earned while the story was around)

Cut scenes
“Flame and Frost” had a system which let us “revisit” the cutscenes
—>My char may not have been present, but those 2 heroes were and may “VIviDly” retell what happend like its happening now

Text Splitting
NPC dialogues and books CAN indeed hold even large text amounts if you split them into dialogue / chapters / paragraphs. Careful phrased, you dont even need too much work to create these and could recycle those filler-texts. i.e.
[LS Text/cutscene 1.Part]
<… and then she/he said… > OR <leave>
[LS Text/cutscene 2.Part]
<looks around suspiciously / bored / agonized / smiling …before continueing> OR <leave>
[LS Text/cutscene 3.Part]
…etc.
For book pages you can do the same, ie. “next page is tainted / burnt /… continue reading OR leave”

Zone Event heralds
Guessing there might be some internal tracking, which events we participated in and maybe even how often we done them. If not … scripting it wouldnt take more than a work day and those heralds could:
—> Randomly pointing out events we never had played before in that particular zone.
i.e. “Have you heard anything about…” <event name>
OR
“I guess you have never noticed whats going on in/near” <zonal sub region>

—> Those heralds could even mention our personal Top 2-5 events we did already in that zone (for the gazillions time). And thus personalize our game experience.
ie. “Well-met, arent you the hero who did / saved /killed…” <Top1 event name> “…and also was responsible for…” <Top2 event name>

I really appreciate that there are no question marks in this game, but heard about DEVs who are wondering why we dont talk about their new created events. Cause often most of us have problems discerning which events are new, may have missed out before or maybe even forgot them. Similiar things will happen to tales and stories as time progresses and the above simple ideas might help players to keep track a little bit more.

Edragor.9164:

Those heralds could even mention our personal Top 2-5 events we did already in that zone (for the gazillions time). And thus personalize our game experience.
ie. “Well-met, arent you the hero who did / saved /killed…” <Top1 event name> “…and also was responsible for…” <Top2 event name>

This. Not to be egoistic here or anything ( :p ), but having a little recognition for everything player characters have done in the GW2 timeline would mean a lot. While the end of our “Personal” Story is actually all about Trahearne and Zhaitan was officially defeated thanks to Destiny’s Edge and the Pact, our characters played a significant role. We also helped Kiel when the Karka invaded, we defeated the Molten Alliance with Rox & Braham and we momentarily stopped Scarlet. Having just a couple of NPCs noticing that we’re the Heroes of Tyria, would really help in feeling like we’re a part of a story and it would provide a sense of history.

That said, I really appreciated Scarlet’s gift.

hedix.1986:

Edragor.9164:

Those heralds could even mention our personal Top 2-5 events we did already in that zone (for the gazillions time). And thus personalize our game experience.
ie. “Well-met, arent you the hero who did / saved /killed…” <Top1 event name> “…and also was responsible for…” <Top2 event name>

This. Not to be egoistic here or anything ( :p ), but having a little recognition for everything player characters have done in the GW2 timeline would mean a lot. While the end of our “Personal” Story is actually all about Trahearne and Zhaitan was officially defeated thanks to Destiny’s Edge and the Pact, our characters played a significant role. We also helped Kiel when the Karka invaded, we defeated the Molten Alliance with Rox & Braham and we momentarily stopped Scarlet. Having just a couple of NPCs noticing that we’re the Heroes of Tyria, would really help in feeling like we’re a part of a story and it would provide a sense of history.

That said, I really appreciated Scarlet’s gift.

That’s one thing SW:TOR did right,imo. The ‘personal’ storyline made me feel very important. I remember the first time I took my Sith Inquisitor back to Korriban, following the storyline completion. The Imperial Guard bowed to me on the way through the hallway. It may seem a small thing but it threw me for a loop and in a very good way. By the end of that story, I felt as if I were the most important, most powerful being in the known universe.

Some people would say ‘You can’t be the main protagonist in a mmo with hundreds of thousands of other main protagonists.’ I, however, would heartily disagree and SW:TOR proves that it can be done and done very well.

Some recognition by select NPCs would go a long way for adding immersion and creating pride in your character.

And on a side note, Trahearne can go die in a fire. I hate him. I literally hate him.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

Joiry.2504:

the pace of the story needs slowing, etc.

To this, I disagree. At the current pace of the story, it feels like we’re going to be stuck with Scarlet for two years if not far more. And with how linear the “living world story” is thus far, this is far from enjoyable.

That is to say, I would like the content updates to slow down, but not the plot itself. Because it feels like it’s being paced a little too slowly. Which, to me, just makes it relatively boring after a while.

I’m not sure how the two can be separated. The content reflects the events of the story.

Instead of “too slow” I’d say the story is “too lite”, as in lite beer. It lacks depth or any real characterization. The pace of the story, in terms of timeline, could be a bit slower. Doesn’t mean it can’t seem more meaningful and in depth if Anet spent more time fleshing it out instead of giving us these one and two dimensional characters with simplistic motivations.

I think the story feels slow because there’s not much too it, one wants more. But more can be achieved in other ways.

I suppose I haven’t explained this clearly enough. We don’t have UI or tech to do this. The only thing we can do in the game currently is attach a short description to an object that is triggered by interaction (F to read, for example) or put that information inside a conversation tree. Those are our options. Neither solution is ideal for large chunks of text due to size limitations and usability restrictions. We’ve used both approaches on occasion to present details as you’ve described. But these current solutions are hard limited with how much we can display onscreen. They aren’t really appropriate for the amount of text information we’d put in proper books.

In other words, we can’t put these short stories into game UI because none currently exists that would support it. I know that sounds odd since we’re essentially talking about showing text in a window, but it’s a bit more complex than that. There is a lot of design, programming, and art that goes into building a system like this.
snip

Your right there’s no large wall of text interaction in game that i can think of. Have you tried looking into the “my personal story tab”? i know there resides alot of text , illustration and even items that no one ever glances at. Maybe interacting with a book unlock a tab that contains the story of scarlet or etc. Im no game developer, im just brainstorming ideas on where i seen text and illustration before.
Taking this from old suggestion post:

Kingmutez.4931:

I suppose I haven’t explained this clearly enough. We don’t have UI or tech to do this. The only thing we can do in the game currently is attach a short description to an object that is triggered by interaction (F to read, for example) or put that information inside a conversation tree. Those are our options. Neither solution is ideal for large chunks of text due to size limitations and usability restrictions. We’ve used both approaches on occasion to present details as you’ve described. But these current solutions are hard limited with how much we can display onscreen. They aren’t really appropriate for the amount of text information we’d put in proper books.

In other words, we can’t put these short stories into game UI because none currently exists that would support it. I know that sounds odd since we’re essentially talking about showing text in a window, but it’s a bit more complex than that. There is a lot of design, programming, and art that goes into building a system like this.
snip

Your right there’s no large wall of text interaction in game that i can think of. Have you tried looking into the “my personal story tab”? i know there resides alot of text , illustration and even items that no one ever glances at. Maybe interacting with a book unlock a tab that contains the story of scarlet or etc. Im no game developer, im just brainstorming ideas on where i seen text and illustration before.
Taking this from old suggestion post:

I thought that looked rather good so I decided to do a search on the image. It comes from the following thread:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/suggestions/My-Story-Expanded-Living-Story-Concept/first#post2137462

I think that is a vary good concept of the way they can add the stories from the website and a nice recap.

However I don’t see how that solves the other books problem. I don’t think it fits well for that. Nor do I think that it solves the replay problem. Something much better can be inovated on from that to solve that problem.

Joiry.2504:

Konig Des Todes.2086:

Joiry.2504:

the pace of the story needs slowing, etc.

To this, I disagree. At the current pace of the story, it feels like we’re going to be stuck with Scarlet for two years if not far more. And with how linear the “living world story” is thus far, this is far from enjoyable.

That is to say, I would like the content updates to slow down, but not the plot itself. Because it feels like it’s being paced a little too slowly. Which, to me, just makes it relatively boring after a while.

I’m not sure how the two can be separated. The content reflects the events of the story.

Instead of “too slow” I’d say the story is “too lite”, as in lite beer. It lacks depth or any real characterization. The pace of the story, in terms of timeline, could be a bit slower. Doesn’t mean it can’t seem more meaningful and in depth if Anet spent more time fleshing it out instead of giving us these one and two dimensional characters with simplistic motivations.

I think the story feels slow because there’s not much too it, one wants more. But more can be achieved in other ways.

I’d agree with the “too lite” feel to the story. But what I meant was “the amount of story we get is good, but the pace of the plot is too slow” which seems to be more or less what you were saying.

And this is why I disagree with you saying we need more updates faster, because let’s be honest, they’re barely keeping decent quality as is by all appearances. I’d rather not have the quality drop. Even if it meant making the content come at half the rate, if the quality – and the story’s pacing – increases then that’s great enough to do it.

IMO, in terms of pacing and content updates, I’d point to Winds of Change as a good example – three updates for one overarching plot that were several months (2-3 between first two and 5 between last two) between the updates. If the Living Story updates were separated to once a month instead, I’d say a good plot rate would be like what we saw with Flame and Frost, but with content equal to our current 2 weeks’ updates.

@Kingmutez.4931 and anzenketh.3759: I LOVE that image example. Maybe refine it a bit, but that would be a great way to integrate the short stories into the game. But as anzenketh says, that only solves the recap and short story (and the cinematic item if possible) problems, but not the other big problems that exist.

Kingmutez.4931:

Maybe interacting with a book unlock a tab that contains the story of scarlet or etc. Im no game developer, im just brainstorming ideas on where i seen text and illustration before.

That’s quite a good idea. It doesn’t fully solve lore issues, but it could be a way around the issues with designing books that BobbyStein mentioned.

Also, great image for the Living Story tab.

Speaking of books. Have you pondered the idea of turning the short stories published on the blog into an actual book (short story collection, most probably)? I’m sure I’m not the only one who has a) trouble reading longer text from computer screen, b) has no luck finding all of the stories, since many of the links are broken and there doesn’t seem to be a coherent archive and c) simply prefers to have a printed volume.

Just an idea that sounds like fun is to incorporate a way to go around and collect these bits of living story from places/people around the world about the living story that has happened so far and a way of offering it up to players who do not have the achievements for the content that they are researching. Even perhaps offering up a small and different reward for doing the legwork. I am sure the amount of programming is huge, but it would be a fun way for new players to learn about the world they have become a part of, and people like myself who have missed a lot of content to sort of catch up on what caused these changes we see after a lengthy time of not being logged on.

Edit: Me fail Crammer, that’s unpossible.

So basically, for the people who are annoyed about all this the extra books and stuff are basically the equivalent of the lore stories in Diablo 3, you still got the majority of the story but there are just extra tid-bits and side story which if you don’t spend your time doing then you won’t experience it but it won’t affect the overall plot. I mean seriously, if you want to go into the lore side of GW2 THAT deeply, you can’t expect Arena net to just give it to you on a silver platter, these guys need some money… Or more money? Or… I dunno maybe they don’t but you get the point.

normyp.8671:

So basically, for the people who are annoyed about all this the extra books and stuff are basically the equivalent of the lore stories in Diablo 3, you still got the majority of the story but there are just extra tid-bits and side story which if you don’t spend your time doing then you won’t experience it but it won’t affect the overall plot. I mean seriously, if you want to go into the lore side of GW2 THAT deeply, you can’t expect Arena net to just give it to you on a silver platter, these guys need some money… Or more money? Or… I dunno maybe they don’t but you get the point.

The bold is where you got it wrong with Guild Wars 2.

We get the bare bones plot upfront, with a little tendons in game, and the muscles and skin of the lore in the short stories and interviews (and other out-of-game mediums).

Honestly I think the problem can not be resolved by putting the lore into books or the UI.

In every other MMORPG, conent updates add permanent value to the game. If a player starts playing a MMO one or two years after the release, he doesn’t get state of the art graphics or game mechanics, but a lot of content that no new game can compete with. And I think also players that stop playing a MMO normaly don’t come back for the one uber-feature puplished during the last patch, but because of the tons of stuff they can catch up.

Regarding the living story this leads me to two conclusions: First of all the story content must not be temporary. It should stay in the game as an extension to the personal story. Turning living story events into instanced content and other things that might be needed for that may not be trivial, but it could be easy if the developers had appropriate tools and altered design processes.

Secondly the living story should provide enough lore and background information ingame to make it a good plot. Providing a story bit by bit every few weeks might work with short stories on the internet or ingame literature. But in order to make it a good story, the plot should be self-explanatory and consistent even if you would experience it completely within a few days.

It could be pretty simple: Provide the basic lore by advancing the personal story, bring it to life by events and give lore enthusiasts a little bit of sugar by distributing additional information in books or with the help of NPCs.
The sole problem is, this won’t work with temporary content…

As someone who quit right after ascended gear was announced (Mad King was the only event I did) but who is tentatively considering coming back and just flipping said gear a giant bird, I found this wiki summary of the Living World really helpful.