Guild Wars 2

Jornophelanthas.1475:

Levelord.5746:

All of these problems with temporary content can be easily fixed by looking at how GW1 did it. They had historians that would re-tell the story to the player, effectively putting you in an instance where you get to re-experience the past content without it affecting the current living story event. This solution is so simple and obvious it boggles my mind why Anet lacks the basic common sense to put it in.

First, lack of resources. All their developers and programmers were fully devoted to cranking out the two-weekly updates during Season 1. Based on the skimpiness of some of the content (Canach’s Lair during “Last Stand at Southsun” comes to mind, but also the pointless Dragon Effigies during “Dragon Bash”), I believe they were stretched thin.

Next, priorities. After Season 1 ended, they chose to first give the quality-of-life update that was the April feature patch. I think it is defensible to give the game a new polish, since this part of the game had been neglected since Living Story started. And after April, the China launch of the game took full priority.

Currently, Living Story Season Two appears to be the top item on the agenda, and it is quite possible that the thing you suggest will be in it. (It is significantly less work to include a feature like tracking progress from the start of a project, rather than adding it midway.)

Are you kidding me? How much extra resources does it take to put in an NPC that links you into an instanced content that already exists?

Also once the npc is implemented it’s a simple matter of adding new LS content to his instance list because the basic framework is already in place.

They did it with GW1 and they did it with GW2’s NPCs offering rotating events like Southsun and Crab toss. So I can’t accept the excuses you’re making for them.

IndigoSundown.5419:

A R W E N.6895:

and what proves you that the dev’s will actually do as they say?

Remember precursor crafting?

Afaik, precursor crafting has never been cancelled. This means the best inference we can make is that it has been back-burnered. If you’re looking for an example of devs actually changing their tune, look at max stat gear.

A dev posted several months ago that pre cursor crafting had all but been shelved for now, as they could not make it work with the way they where taking rewards in the game, so I wouldn’t expect anything this year on that to be honest, we will hopefully see new legendary’s with season 2 because the game is becoming stale,

On that statement, me and my friends whom are actually left in this game will try LS2, if it ends up more recycled content, with lacklusture rewards we will be done, we are nearly 2 years into the game, ( and we still have no real new zones to explore, I don’t count the 10 mins it took you to run around southsun ) and really all we have seen is events nerfed, loot removed, rewards cut, and a zerg fest, which they then decided no you will be punished for zerging, there are still broken events in game that are not fixed, events that still spawn no enemies/loot, if this is the way LS2 will also be taken with Anet, then I wish them and everyone who continues to play good luck.

I am personally hoping that they start to pay more attention to us, and don’t take the approach of we know its broken, but heres stuff in the Gem store.

Stuff (word changes) can leave as long as the activities, achievements and rewards stay. Maybe you like to grind against time but many people don’t. I also don’t get why you compare it to the personal story. I am asking for it not to be temporary but I for sure am not asking for it to be like the personal story. I did not yet complete that on any character because as you say I am playing an MMO not an single-player game.

Having it not temporary is not the same as the personal story.

“More than this I enjoy the fact that, because I was here playing from a lot, I have rewards other can never have. What is the point of let everyone have everything? “ Nobody said everybody should get everything and why should you get something just for being here now? How about lock it behind specific content and make it rewarding that way. Then it adds value and then it will still be rare and then if a new player comes to the game and he sees a nice skins he can start working towards getting it. Maybe you like to tell him he can’t get it any-more but it also means that’s content that is missing for him.

tolunart.2095:

IndigoSundown.5419:

If you’re looking for an example of devs actually changing their tune, look at max stat gear.

So you expect the devs to lay out their plans for the game years before release and never deviate from that plan, even when the players ask for something different?

They have a responsibility to create a game for millions of players, not just you. The devs are only human and don’t always make the best decisions, but these decisions are made for the health of the game as a whole, not to pacify whoever yells the loudest.

Looks like I struck a nerve here. This is an example of what can happen when posters cherry-pick part of a post. They sometimes lose the context, leading to misinterpretation.

Since you may not remember the entirety of my post, suffice it to say that another poster was questioning whether dev statements about LS S2 could be trusted. S/he cited precursor crafting as an example. Since there’s been no announcement that precursor crafting has been ruled out, this example was inappropriate. I provided an alternative example where the devs said one thing and then changed things later.

And no, I don’t expect ANet to never deviate from their course. I may or may not like it when they do, but I don’t expect anything from them except what they think will work best for their bottom line.

Levelord.5746:

Jornophelanthas.1475:

Levelord.5746:

All of these problems with temporary content can be easily fixed by looking at how GW1 did it. They had historians that would re-tell the story to the player, effectively putting you in an instance where you get to re-experience the past content without it affecting the current living story event. This solution is so simple and obvious it boggles my mind why Anet lacks the basic common sense to put it in.

First, lack of resources. All their developers and programmers were fully devoted to cranking out the two-weekly updates during Season 1. Based on the skimpiness of some of the content (Canach’s Lair during “Last Stand at Southsun” comes to mind, but also the pointless Dragon Effigies during “Dragon Bash”), I believe they were stretched thin.

Next, priorities. After Season 1 ended, they chose to first give the quality-of-life update that was the April feature patch. I think it is defensible to give the game a new polish, since this part of the game had been neglected since Living Story started. And after April, the China launch of the game took full priority.

Currently, Living Story Season Two appears to be the top item on the agenda, and it is quite possible that the thing you suggest will be in it. (It is significantly less work to include a feature like tracking progress from the start of a project, rather than adding it midway.)

Are you kidding me? How much extra resources does it take to put in an NPC that links you into an instanced content that already exists?

Also once the npc is implemented it’s a simple matter of adding new LS content to his instance list because the basic framework is already in place.

They did it with GW1 and they did it with GW2’s NPCs offering rotating events like Southsun and Crab toss. So I can’t accept the excuses you’re making for them.

Unless you are actually a (game) programmer, making a claim of “how hard can it be” is not credible.

You should look up the Dunning-Kruger effect (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect).

I am not a programmer myself, but I can make a few guesses why it would not be easy to implement such a thing:

- Some instances are designed to be exclusively solo (e.g. Scarlet final battle), some are exclusively designed for five-person groups (e.g. Molten Facility dungeon), and some are exclusively designed for the open world (e.g. Scarlet’s Marionnette). It takes different types of programming to craft together a single replay menu for all three of these types of content, and I highly doubt whether the open world content can even be feasibly accessed by enough players.

- Certain instances were only meant to become available after gaining certain achievements (e.g. Scarlet’s Hologram). Others are on a strict timer tied to the in-game clock (e.g. Escape from Lion’s Arch). Adapting these for replay requires effort on the part of programmers, as all these instances would need to work on the same basic infrastructure.

- Certain things that were added to the game after a given instance was already removed could interfere with the functionality of the instance. This all needs to be checked and tested thoroughly for every instance, before it can be added to the game. For example, certain NPCs in certain instances could start saying the wrong thing to you, because they don’t recognize the achievements they used to check anymore.

- The rewards on most story instances are not repeatable, or consist of festival items and temporary currencies that can no longer be redeemed. This all would need to be rebalanced as well.

- From a developer standpoint, it may be undesirable to spread the player base too thin across too many events. If this happens, no large scale event requiring some degree of coordination (e.g. Escape from Lion’s Arch, Scarlet’s Marionnette, or the Great Three-Headed Jungle Wurm) would ever have a chance of succeeding again.

- Crab Toss and Southsun Survival are mini-games that run on the PvP-engine. As such, they were already quite similar. And even so, developing the activity NPC functionality probably involved more resources than one person thinking: “Hey, that’s a nice idea. I’ll take the next five minutes to put that in the game.”

There may be many, many more things that professional game developers and programmers need to worry about before (re-)releasing anything to the gaming public, that we simply have no knowledge of. But just because we have no knowledge of it, does not mean that it does not exist.

NCSoft won’t give Anet funding for an expansion. Living Story is what you get.

Then don’t play the game at all during S2.

Jornophelanthas.1475:

Levelord.5746:

Jornophelanthas.1475:

Levelord.5746:

All of these problems with temporary content can be easily fixed by looking at how GW1 did it. They had historians that would re-tell the story to the player, effectively putting you in an instance where you get to re-experience the past content without it affecting the current living story event. This solution is so simple and obvious it boggles my mind why Anet lacks the basic common sense to put it in.

First, lack of resources. All their developers and programmers were fully devoted to cranking out the two-weekly updates during Season 1. Based on the skimpiness of some of the content (Canach’s Lair during “Last Stand at Southsun” comes to mind, but also the pointless Dragon Effigies during “Dragon Bash”), I believe they were stretched thin.

Next, priorities. After Season 1 ended, they chose to first give the quality-of-life update that was the April feature patch. I think it is defensible to give the game a new polish, since this part of the game had been neglected since Living Story started. And after April, the China launch of the game took full priority.

Currently, Living Story Season Two appears to be the top item on the agenda, and it is quite possible that the thing you suggest will be in it. (It is significantly less work to include a feature like tracking progress from the start of a project, rather than adding it midway.)

Are you kidding me? How much extra resources does it take to put in an NPC that links you into an instanced content that already exists?

Also once the npc is implemented it’s a simple matter of adding new LS content to his instance list because the basic framework is already in place.

They did it with GW1 and they did it with GW2’s NPCs offering rotating events like Southsun and Crab toss. So I can’t accept the excuses you’re making for them.

Unless you are actually a (game) programmer, making a claim of “how hard can it be” is not credible.

You should look up the Dunning-Kruger effect (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect).

You’re going the “you’re not a programmer routine”. I’ve seen this line of reasoning before and in other circumstances, I would agree with you, but that’s ignoring the fact that they’ve already done this exact feature before and implemented it and done it very quickly. So they aren’t strangers to this and it’s very clear from their past actions that this is routine to them.

In light of the glaring evidence of them actually achieving this ‘impossibly difficult feat’ so many times (that you are implying) I don’t see how they simply cannot do it again for the living story. For one it’s worthwhile for them because they don’t waste the content they slaved away at programming and secondly it adds permanent content for players to do in the meantime while waiting for Anet to come up with newer content.

From what I can tell, the OP, and others want more PERMENANT content in season 2. I guess we need to clearly define what that means. There was permenant content added in in season 1, but people don’t count it as content for whatever reason. There was a new explorable zone (2 if you count the queens pavillion), with a whole series of DEs, at least 2 JP in the new zone and the aetherblade JP, 2 new world bosses, a new dungeon path, a new fractal, a new gear tier, more crafting recipies, a new wvwvw map, new crafting materials, and thats what I can think of off the top of my head. Post season 1 brought us new traits and trait system, a whole new stat, new pvp reward track system, new ways to aquire mats for legendary weapons, and more.

If this isn’t “Permenent content” I don’t know what it. It’s much of the same stuff you’d find in an expansion, just brought out in smaller chunks. Yeah the story elements were left temporary, but again, as its been brought up before, thats the very nature of a “Living Story”. Also if you are looking for a story recap, because you missed parts of season 1, you CAN watch the recap videos here . I believe there are also some NPCs still around that can give you a full recap of the story as well. I know there was one in LA at some point, but you’ll have to look for them.

I think Anet should release a whole bunch of temporary content in LS2, but call it “permanent” content………just to mess with the heads of a lot of the posters in this forum.

After all, they’ll never be happy with the game no matter what Anet delivers…..so might as well have some fun with ’em.

I am looking forward to LS2…….hopefully it will deliver some new areas to explore, some more fun events and story twists, and maybe some more content that steers away from mindless zerging.

Some updates and improvements to WvW would also be nice.

pdavis.8031:

There was permanent content added in in season 1, but people don’t count it as content for whatever reason.

There was a new explorable zone

SSC was added before Season 1, which began with Fire and Frost. Besides, it’s barely half a zone — no explorable objectives, few DE’s, little to no Easter Eggs.

(2 if you count the queens pavillion)

I don’t; that’s a district in a city with again, no real exploration.

at least 2 JP in the new zone and the aetherblade JP

3 JP’s, check

2 new world bosses, a new dungeon path

1 new world boss, 1 revamped world boss, 1 replacement dungeon path.

a new fractal

plus fractals revamp

a new gear tier

Launched before LW was announced, finished during LW — and gear accompanies playable content, it is not such content of itself.

more crafting recipies, a new wvwvw map, new crafting materials, and thats what I can think of off the top of my head.

New WvW map is content. You’re double dipping with crafting recipes and mats, as you’ve already listed the gear tier.

Post season 1 brought us new traits and trait system, a whole new stat, new pvp reward track system, new ways to aquire mats for legendary weapons, and more.

Not content, and Ferocity is not a new stat.

Looks to me like some of your “content” isn’t, some was added before LW, and some of the new content replaced existing content. In other words, the playable content in the game did not grow as much as you want us to believe during LW S1.

@IndigoSundown

Ok I agree that some of it was pre LS. But it still remains that the Karka Queen is a new boss. Granted before LS, but still , added permenent content. The recipes and mats I was refering to, don’t include ascended. Crafting professions, not all, got bumped up to level 500, and opened up a range of new items to craft. As well as the toxic spore samples and watchwork sprockets for mats.

What remains though is what is defined as content. I see all the stuff added/changed pre, during, and post Living story as content. Some people do not. I believe that until “content” is clearly defined we won’t be able to move on with the discussion. As some people, like me, say that plently of stuff was added and is permenent, while others don’t see it as content.

Teon.5168:

I think Anet should release a whole bunch of temporary content in LS2, but call it “permanent” content………just to mess with the heads of a lot of the posters in this forum.

After all, they’ll never be happy with the game no matter what Anet delivers…..so might as well have some fun with ’em.

I am looking forward to LS2…….hopefully it will deliver some new areas to explore, some more fun events and story twists, and maybe some more content that steers away from mindless zerging.

Some updates and improvements to WvW would also be nice.

LOL I could totally see this happening on an April fools joke.
ArenaNet takes holidays seriously so I wouldn’t be surprised if they did.

ArenaNet needs to priorities in expanding the game not evolving the game.
Permanent content expands the game by adding more value to the game since they’ll always be there no matter what.

Permanent content such as:
(Personal Stories) – for in depth story telling and missions
(Story Dungeons) – New ones after Distiny’s edge story for lvl80s
(Explorable Dungoens) – New ones with 3 paths like the original
(Jumping Puzzles) – for more plat-former content
(Guild Missions) – More varieties of missions
(Skill challenges) – More different forms or puzzle/platformer would be interesting
(New Zones) – to explore in
(Minigames) – with their own rewards
(Vistas)
etc….

These contents should be added each month permanently to the game so more things to do for new and returning players will always be there.

They can also focus on some Evolution to the game like Lions Arch being destoryed and rebuilt and such. But keep story out of the Living World content since it does a bad job keeping content and doesn’t do a good job telling a compelling story for everyone to understand since people start the game at different times so character development becomes non-existence

pdavis.8031:

@IndigoSundown

Ok I agree that some of it was pre LS. But it still remains that the Karka Queen is a new boss. Granted before LS, but still , added permenent content. The recipes and mats I was refering to, don’t include ascended. Crafting professions, not all, got bumped up to level 500, and opened up a range of new items to craft. As well as the toxic spore samples and watchwork sprockets for mats.

What remains though is what is defined as content. I see all the stuff added/changed pre, during, and post Living story as content. Some people do not. I believe that until “content” is clearly defined we won’t be able to move on with the discussion. As some people, like me, say that plently of stuff was added and is permenent, while others don’t see it as content.

I believe that ANet itself makes a distinction between content and features. The 2014/4/15 patch was called a “feature patch,” not a “content patch.”

The thread topic concerns whether adding content in LW S2 will be different/better from that of LW S1. The OP’s assumption seems to be that it won’t. In fact, his primary concern seems to be the temporary nature of the story presented in S1. It seems he’s presuming S2 story will be much the same. For the purpose of sticking to the thread topic, can we agree that content would be the story elements and their presentation for S2? If it helps, we can call it “story content.”

LW Season stories are a dramatically different approach to ongoing MMO content presentation. Most MMO’s present story — if they even have one — as one-offs (e.g., the GW2 personal story). You can do the story on another character, but each character does it just once. Such stories are usually in the game at launch, and ongoing stories just don’t happen.

Most MMO’s focus their ongoing development on repeatable content, not one-off story content. This is because the bills get paid if players are playing and paying on a regular basis. This is true for sub and store based games, although store-based games don’t always require the same players to keep playing in quite the same way as sub games — but that’s another topic. Thus, dungeons, raids, seasonal festivals and dailies keep interest alive via rewarded repetition, while the developer then presents new dungeons, raids etc. in an expansion – usually with more lore behind it, though few expansions offer additional personal stories like the GW2 PS or TOR character stories.

Keeping player interest via one-off stories is a risky approach. Some players don’t want story, instead they want that rewarded repetitive content followed by more of the same in new maps. Add in new professions, new races, etc. for them to repeat the older content in new ways and they’re happy. Even players who prefer a story-based approach may not like the quality of the LW story, or the fact that — unlike a TV drama — there’s no DVD to experience that story at their convenience.

The OP’s question, and it’s mine also, is what will ANet deliver in S2 for people who don’t care for story, or who want story on their terms.

@IndigoSundown

That definition works for me. It certainly clears things up a bit. However, I see no reason for Season 2 to be anything like Season 1. One of the Devs already stated that Season 2 will include permenent content. Whether story content, or otherwise, we have no idea. We can safely assume there will be a new zone, and with that POIs, Vistas, hearts, etc. I am positive that they learned much on what NOT to do from Season1. It wouldn’t make sense to NOT incorperate many of the things that didn’t make Season so great, but could have, in this new season. But all in all, we don’t really KNOW anything other than there will be Season 2. Anything else is pure speculation.

Before saying something’s a mistake, why not wait and see how it turns out?

IndigoSundown.5419:

pdavis.8031:

@IndigoSundown

Ok I agree that some of it was pre LS. But it still remains that the Karka Queen is a new boss. Granted before LS, but still , added permenent content. The recipes and mats I was refering to, don’t include ascended. Crafting professions, not all, got bumped up to level 500, and opened up a range of new items to craft. As well as the toxic spore samples and watchwork sprockets for mats.

What remains though is what is defined as content. I see all the stuff added/changed pre, during, and post Living story as content. Some people do not. I believe that until “content” is clearly defined we won’t be able to move on with the discussion. As some people, like me, say that plently of stuff was added and is permenent, while others don’t see it as content.

I believe that ANet itself makes a distinction between content and features. The 2014/4/15 patch was called a “feature patch,” not a “content patch.”

The thread topic concerns whether adding content in LW S2 will be different/better from that of LW S1. The OP’s assumption seems to be that it won’t. In fact, his primary concern seems to be the temporary nature of the story presented in S1. It seems he’s presuming S2 story will be much the same. For the purpose of sticking to the thread topic, can we agree that content would be the story elements and their presentation for S2? If it helps, we can call it “story content.”

LW Season stories are a dramatically different approach to ongoing MMO content presentation. Most MMO’s present story — if they even have one — as one-offs (e.g., the GW2 personal story). You can do the story on another character, but each character does it just once. Such stories are usually in the game at launch, and ongoing stories just don’t happen.

Most MMO’s focus their ongoing development on repeatable content, not one-off story content. This is because the bills get paid if players are playing and paying on a regular basis. This is true for sub and store based games, although store-based games don’t always require the same players to keep playing in quite the same way as sub games — but that’s another topic. Thus, dungeons, raids, seasonal festivals and dailies keep interest alive via rewarded repetition, while the developer then presents new dungeons, raids etc. in an expansion – usually with more lore behind it, though few expansions offer additional personal stories like the GW2 PS or TOR character stories.

Keeping player interest via one-off stories is a risky approach. Some players don’t want story, instead they want that rewarded repetitive content followed by more of the same in new maps. Add in new professions, new races, etc. for them to repeat the older content in new ways and they’re happy. Even players who prefer a story-based approach may not like the quality of the LW story, or the fact that — unlike a TV drama — there’s no DVD to experience that story at their convenience.

The OP’s question, and it’s mine also, is what will ANet deliver in S2 for people who don’t care for story, or who want story on their terms.

Exactly. Appealing to all of these types of players is their challenge, and I understand what they face is a tough predicament, but I think all in all, most of the people I’ve seen would want more repetitive things to do in game. Doing fractals until you are able to do level 50 just gets boring, sometimes you’d like another thing to progress in, and when you have all level 80’s with 100% map on them. What, honestly is there left for you to do? After you’ve crafted the legendary? I guess you can play the trading post a bit to make money, but even that gets boring after a while. I don’t think most people are upset with this issue, it’s just them, re-iterating that a lot of players are hanging on by a very thin thread due to a lack of replayable content. After all, you can only get 100% map completion on the same character 1 time.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

Before saying something’s a mistake, why not wait and see how it turns out?

These kinds of conversations are important to have in the community since it helps the Developers see what direction the game is going and how their community reacts to their development.

It’s very beneficial for ArenaNet as a company to know were their customers/players are coming from as well as how they can improve or learn from their past mistakes to succeed in making fun and enjoyable contents that expands.

We’ll see what happens but that doesnt mean we cant discuss about it.

DreamyAbaddon.3265:

Konig Des Todes.2086:

Before saying something’s a mistake, why not wait and see how it turns out?

These kinds of conversations are important to have in the community since it helps the Developers see what direction the game is going and how their community reacts to their development.

It’s very beneficial for ArenaNet as a company to know were their customers/players are coming from as well as how they can improve or learn from their past mistakes to succeed in making fun and enjoyable contents that expands.

We’ll see what happens but that doesnt mean we cant discuss about it.

Please explain how it is beneficial to Anet devs when all the conversation concerning the upcoming LS2 is just speculation, and nothing more?

After all, it has not even been released, yet, so none of us have any idea what it will be like. How is that sort of far fetched assuming and speculation and rumor milling even slightly beneficial to Anet devs, or anyone else, for that matter????

Sure, it’s fine to discuss and speculate about it, but don’t be so naive to think that the devs will pay any attention to any of these comments until AFTER LS2 has been released.

I have been thinking…

The first big LS was the attack of Karkas in LA and we got to explore southsun Cove… But then there was no new maps after that. This is (As I beleave) becouse they noticed that as soon as everything was done is Southsun it got pretty barren. And I am pretty sure I have seen somewhere that Anet wan’t this world to be interesting all over and that people should be able to return to old maps and have fun again. This didn’t happen so Anet didn’t want to make a new map. Now they have introduced MegaServers and this will make more players on the same map even if it has low popularity, if their studies from old LS and the effects of MegaServer on Southsun and other low Pop maps shows a possitive result we will probably have new maps to explore. I know many don’t like MegaServers but I think it has opened quite a lot of population gates for Anet and they can now aim at new content instead of populating the old Content.

This is just speculations but I kinda want to beleave it.

@Devata: I couldn’t enter to answer your post but I say I agree but I do not agree that people who missed LS rewards should be able to aquire it after. Achievements is okay to achieve after the events imo but not loot and stuff like Gasmask and those stuff. I have myself missed some stuff becouse I didn’t have time to compleate it but still I think those who got it is the only ones to have it.

OOoooorrr they could make that “last” achievement to get the reward realy realy realy realy hard to achieve.

pdavis.8031:

From what I can tell, the OP, and others want more PERMENANT content in season 2. I guess we need to clearly define what that means. There was permenant content added in in season 1, but people don’t count it as content for whatever reason. There was a new explorable zone (2 if you count the queens pavillion), with a whole series of DEs, at least 2 JP in the new zone and the aetherblade JP, 2 new world bosses, a new dungeon path, a new fractal, a new gear tier, more crafting recipies, a new wvwvw map, new crafting materials, and thats what I can think of off the top of my head. Post season 1 brought us new traits and trait system, a whole new stat, new pvp reward track system, new ways to aquire mats for legendary weapons, and more.

If this isn’t “Permenent content” I don’t know what it. It’s much of the same stuff you’d find in an expansion, just brought out in smaller chunks. Yeah the story elements were left temporary, but again, as its been brought up before, thats the very nature of a “Living Story”. Also if you are looking for a story recap, because you missed parts of season 1, you CAN watch the recap videos here . I believe there are also some NPCs still around that can give you a full recap of the story as well. I know there was one in LA at some point, but you’ll have to look for them.

Some want expansion-like content like maps, races, guild-halls, professions (I rather see that as an expansions) and then also in the same amount as you would see as an expansion.

Other complain about the temporary nature of the LS. Temporary available activities, achievements and rewards pressuring you do grind it now or lose out on it forever.

Hope that clears things up for you.

DreamyAbaddon.3265:

Konig Des Todes.2086:

Before saying something’s a mistake, why not wait and see how it turns out?

These kinds of conversations are important to have in the community since it helps the Developers see what direction the game is going and how their community reacts to their development.

It’s very beneficial for ArenaNet as a company to know were their customers/players are coming from as well as how they can improve or learn from their past mistakes to succeed in making fun and enjoyable contents that expands.

We’ll see what happens but that doesnt mean we cant discuss about it.

In theory, your point is valid.

However, ArenaNet is unlikely to appreciate topics/statements that are as unconstructive as this topic title. What they can use as productive feedback are rationally argued statements, and not emotional rants.

As you must have noticed, most of the statements arguing against Season 2 amount to little more than variations of “I hated season 1, and season 2 will be exactly the same, so I will hate season 2 STOP IT NOW!!!!!”

ArenaNet is unlikely to put much stock in this, because they have already admitted that Season 2 will be different from Season 1, and that they will incorporate lessons learned from the feedback on Season 1. If you choose to criticize the upcoming Season 2 in a constructive way, you have to take this claim into account, and argue a strong case why Season 2 will be bad no matter what.

DreamyAbaddon.3265:

cant tell a good story

This is what worries me most about what I have seen from the current Anet “Stories” in-game.

Some of the short stories on the wiki and website are amazing, the stuff we get in-game though? nothing worth noting.

We’ll find out tomorrow, for better or for worse.

DreamyAbaddon.3265:

ArenaNet needs to priorities in expanding the game not evolving the game.
Permanent content expands the game by adding more value to the game since they’ll always be there no matter what.

Permanent content such as:
(Personal Stories) – for in depth story telling and missions <- NO THANKS, that’s inviting more narrative incoherences than we already have.

(Story Dungeons) – New ones after Distiny’s edge story for lvl80s <- See above

(Explorable Dungoens) – New ones with 3 paths like the original <- This we agree

(Jumping Puzzles) – for more plat-former content <- Why not ?

(Guild Missions) – More varieties of missions <- This content touches a more limited audience and should not be top priority

(Skill challenges) – More different forms or puzzle/platformer would be interesting <- Could you give examples, I fail to see what more they can do. Besides, one should not spend too much time on them.

(New Zones) – to explore in duh, we know that new zones are (usually) permanent content, thanks

(Minigames) – with their own rewards <- We have a very large offer by now. This should not be a priority.
(Vistas)
etc….

I the end, you mostly want new zones with new type of activities. So do I. However:

DreamyAbaddon.3265:

These contents should be added each month permanently to the game so more things to do for new and returning players will always be there.

Friend, you are dreaming awake. A new zone each month ? Unless you want copy paste and palette swap of existing zones, you won’t get this at such a frequency.

DreamyAbaddon.3265:

They can also focus on some Evolution to the game like Lions Arch being destoryed and rebuilt and such. But keep story out of the Living World content since it does a bad job keeping content and doesn’t do a good job telling a compelling story for everyone to understand since people start the game at different times so character development becomes non-existence

Goes against the very concept of the living world. Separate story and content ? Do you realize that the story is what makes the content interesting and engaging in the first place? The Zephyr Sanctum is awesome ‘cause it’s the home of the new brotherhood of the dragon, it’s not awesome because we can gather quartz here (who cares ?).

Story was, is and will be the good way to introduce content into a game. We discover a new place because there is a reason to go there (save the world/avenge fallen/investigate stuff…). Not because we have achievements to do there (how lame is that seriousy ?)

There’s no need to complain about something that we don’t even know what it will be yet.

They KNOW that people want permanent content and have said that they will be working on making future LS releases much more permanent. Give them a chance and see what they come up with.

DreamyAbaddon.3265:

Konig Des Todes.2086:

Before saying something’s a mistake, why not wait and see how it turns out?

These kinds of conversations are important to have in the community since it helps the Developers see what direction the game is going and how their community reacts to their development.

It’s very beneficial for ArenaNet as a company to know were their customers/players are coming from as well as how they can improve or learn from their past mistakes to succeed in making fun and enjoyable contents that expands.

We’ll see what happens but that doesnt mean we cant discuss about it.

The thing is, all the beneficial feedback came in when Season 1 had came out.

Right now, you’re just repeating what’s been said for months, and claiming to know how Season 2 has shaped based on the feedback for said months.

So unless you can foresee the future or know the inner workings of ArenaNet, all feedback that would be useful has been given – since everything I’ve seen since about Season 1 is really just an echo. And anything about Season 2 is pure speculation or “don’t be like this in Season 1!”/“we want more of this, which we wanted and said we wanted back in season 1!”

pdavis.8031:

If this isn’t “Permenent content” I don’t know what it..

Permanent content is when you’re a new player looking for a group to run through “The Dark Dungeon of Death,” and everyone tells you that nobody bothers to run that dungeon any more because they farmed it for six weeks after it was added to the game and now everyone is bored with it.

Most of you guys miss the giant portal into the past in Lion’s arch.
I think Anet need to exploit the fractals of the mists better. Let us earn fractal relics and ascended gear by returning to more old events of the living story like the bosses of aetherblade and flame and frost. Add twenty new fractal levels, featuring scarlet battles, clockwork foes, the destruction of the tower of nightmares etc. This way you can keep your temporal story temporal, but still allow players who missed it to catch up, and earn fantastic gear along the way.

Jornophelanthas.1475:

DreamyAbaddon.3265:

Konig Des Todes.2086:

Before saying something’s a mistake, why not wait and see how it turns out?

These kinds of conversations are important to have in the community since it helps the Developers see what direction the game is going and how their community reacts to their development.

It’s very beneficial for ArenaNet as a company to know were their customers/players are coming from as well as how they can improve or learn from their past mistakes to succeed in making fun and enjoyable contents that expands.

We’ll see what happens but that doesnt mean we cant discuss about it.

In theory, your point is valid.

However, ArenaNet is unlikely to appreciate topics/statements that are as unconstructive as this topic title. What they can use as productive feedback are rationally argued statements, and not emotional rants.

As you must have noticed, most of the statements arguing against Season 2 amount to little more than variations of “I hated season 1, and season 2 will be exactly the same, so I will hate season 2 STOP IT NOW!!!!!”

ArenaNet is unlikely to put much stock in this, because they have already admitted that Season 2 will be different from Season 1, and that they will incorporate lessons learned from the feedback on Season 1. If you choose to criticize the upcoming Season 2 in a constructive way, you have to take this claim into account, and argue a strong case why Season 2 will be bad no matter what.

There tends to be a pattern to Player forum posts.

First the Player is happy… he has a new game full of mystery, He has a lot to learn about gameplay, and a Lot of new people to play with. He barely comes On the forums he’s too busy playing.

Then as time passes he strives for efficiency. He starts Looking up builds, he starts wondering " Is there a more efficient way to level up?" “is there a better place to farm loot or gold?” So he visits the forums to get some Information. Most players stay in this phase which is good for everyone involved.

Some start reading other forum posts and can’t believe the negativity in a game they enjoy… But they read them anyway, at first to refute them.. but some words sink in.. and they start to realize these others that are Negative on the game, are not " jelous… wow fanbois, ..or haters." they love the game too, but they are dissatisfied.

Some In time… Not all, but some, become dissatisfied themselves. I think a LOT of the Playerbase that was here prior to April is in this camp.

They post with Logic, they put up well resoned arguments at first…but then that fails to explain what is truely felt..( since the issue is emotional..Not logical…).

They finally post with emotion… maybe frustration, maybe disappointment.
Then they sense that their opinions about the game they love is falling on deaf ears, they stop posting. So since Anet does not seem to be hearing their complaints, soon maybe, they hear their feet heading for the door.

The fact that many are still here, maybe stuck somewhere between." Logic arguments" and " frustrated emotional arguments " is a good thing. They are still here…. The next step though is up to Anet. Do we continue to hear frustrated complaints? Or will we hear the clatter of exiting feet, followed by the echoes of empty servers?

What about the 97% or so of players who never even read the forums, let alone start posting here?

tolunart.2095:

What about the 97% or so of players who never even read the forums, let alone start posting here?

Oh yes, I agree. Only about 3 % of players bother posting in the forums. about 97 % don’t.

Those that do not bother posting and are dissatisfied because they notice how the game is steering the average player to the gem store for gold… and nerfing any decent repeatable, consistent way to earn money, which means any of those Limited time only items on the cash shop will have to be bought with Gold Bought with gems, will skip steps 2 through whatever… and just leave.

The average player isn’t being steered towards the gem store for gold – if they were Anet would be SUPER RICH.

You’ll mostly likely find that a majority of players don’t even touch the gem store or have spent less than $10USD on it. If you feel the need to buy gold with gems then that is on YOU, not the game. I’m a casual player who doesn’t have a whole lot of time to spend playing since I’m a full time university student (read: most weeks I don’t play at all) but I’ve still managed to always have the gold I need just from playing the game normally. I don’t farm, I hardly ever do dungeons, I don’t do FoTM.

The average player doesn’t need ascended gear or a legendary weapon – they have absolutely no need for super high amounts of gold… The whole game, with the exception of FoTM, was designed around exotic gear – which is very easy to obtain – so you shouldn’t ever NEED to buy gold with gems. If you WANT to, then go ahead. But nobody made you do it.

FlamingFoxx.1305:

The average player isn’t being steered towards the gem store for gold – if they were Anet would be SUPER RICH.

You’ll mostly likely find that a majority of players don’t even touch the gem store or have spent less than $10USD on it. If you feel the need to buy gold with gems then that is on YOU, not the game. I’m a casual player who doesn’t have a whole lot of time to spend playing since I’m a full time university student (read: most weeks I don’t play at all) but I’ve still managed to always have the gold I need just from playing the game normally. I don’t farm, I hardly ever do dungeons, I don’t do FoTM.

The average player doesn’t need ascended gear or a legendary weapon – they have absolutely no need for super high amounts of gold… The whole game, with the exception of FoTM, was designed around exotic gear – which is very easy to obtain – so you shouldn’t ever NEED to buy gold with gems. If you WANT to, then go ahead. But nobody made you do it.

You underestimate the power of fluff. You totally discount the allure of armor, and weapon skins, when that is all that is mostly all the game has… and then the store puts out a new sexy skin. And players don’t buy gems with Gold.

Just because ALL a player needs is exotics doesn’t mean that the Players are not buying skins at the gem store… or an extra bank slot…or extra bag space.

So no, Just because you haven’t spent any money on the gem store, doesn’t mean you represent the average player. Judging from How many people here also complain about How the game is being monetized…. I think you might be In the Minority. After all… if it were true that " the average player has probably spent 10 USD" then these servers would have been closed ages ago.

See Most people that buy Gold with gems don’t advertise it. They just quietly do it.

Another sign that people feel the need to BUY Gold is all the gold spammers that have surfaced of late. You do Not sell condoms to Eunuchs. You Sell your service where there is a demand. The reason that Anet hates Gold spammers isn’t because " we must protect " the game"" it’s because ..they MUST protect their profit.

Nerelith.7360:

tolunart.2095:

What about the 97% or so of players who never even read the forums, let alone start posting here?

Oh yes, I agree. Only about 3 % of players bother posting in the forums. about 97 % don’t.

Those that do not bother posting and are dissatisfied because they notice how the game is steering the average player to the gem store for gold… and nerfing any decent repeatable, consistent way to earn money, which means any of those Limited time only items on the cash shop will have to be bought with Gold Bought with gems, will skip steps 2 through whatever… and just leave.

I doubt that.

The game was not built around typical hardcore-MMO-gamer activities like raids and chasing BiS gear. Most of those players have already jumped to a different MMO – and a different MMO after that – by now. The players they are going after are casuals who log in for a few hours now and then, and actually like getting things from the cash shop instead of grinding for weeks to get to Ultimate reputation level or somesuch. Income reports and other things point towards this, such as the popularity of dye packs and BL keys. They do throw the hardcores a bone now and then, starting with Legendary weapons and continuing through fractals and ascended crafting. But I think the majority of players who are still in the game are doing it on a casual basis, logging in a few hours here and there to check out the new LS chapter or whatever, then going back to their jobs and families.

Why do you think they have been so adamant about keeping the LS the way it was? They track how many people are doing what activities – WvW, dungeon runs, open world bosses, etc. If something isn’t working, they change it, and if it’s going the way they want it to (such as putting weapon skins in BL chests, it makes them tons more money than selling the skins directly), they continue doing it… even if a handful of players on the forums complain about it. Because no matter what they do, someone won’t like it.

The fact that they’re setting up for LS season 2 indicates they were pleased with at least some of the results from season 1. I expect some tweaks to satisfy the hardcore gamers, but for the most part, this is a casual-oriented game, one that can be taken in small doses rather than something to schedule the rest of your life around.

tolunart.2095:

Nerelith.7360:

tolunart.2095:

What about the 97% or so of players who never even read the forums, let alone start posting here?

Oh yes, I agree. Only about 3 % of players bother posting in the forums. about 97 % don’t.

Those that do not bother posting and are dissatisfied because they notice how the game is steering the average player to the gem store for gold… and nerfing any decent repeatable, consistent way to earn money, which means any of those Limited time only items on the cash shop will have to be bought with Gold Bought with gems, will skip steps 2 through whatever… and just leave.

I doubt that.

The game was not built around typical hardcore-MMO-gamer activities like raids and chasing BiS gear. Most of those players have already jumped to a different MMO – and a different MMO after that – by now. The players they are going after are casuals who log in for a few hours now and then, and actually like getting things from the cash shop instead of grinding for weeks to get to Ultimate reputation level or somesuch. Income reports and other things point towards this, such as the popularity of dye packs and BL keys. They do throw the hardcores a bone now and then, starting with Legendary weapons and continuing through fractals and ascended crafting. But I think the majority of players who are still in the game are doing it on a casual basis, logging in a few hours here and there to check out the new LS chapter or whatever, then going back to their jobs and families.

Why do you think they have been so adamant about keeping the LS the way it was? They track how many people are doing what activities – WvW, dungeon runs, open world bosses, etc. If something isn’t working, they change it, and if it’s going the way they want it to (such as putting weapon skins in BL chests, it makes them tons more money than selling the skins directly), they continue doing it.

The fact that they’re setting up for LS season 2 indicates they were pleased with at least some of the results from season 1. I expect some tweaks to satisfy the hardcore gamers, but for the most part, this is a casual-oriented game, one that can be taken in small doses rather than something to schedule the rest of your life around.

You say the player this game appeals to is the casual gamer that likes buying things off the cash shop. Flaming Foxx says the average player maybe has only spent $10 through their time here since they installed the game,

You two should talk. :-)

There are almost four million accounts. If just 5% of those players (200,000) spend $10 on gems, that $2 million. In “Free To Play” games some players toss in a few bucks now and then (my wife recently bought gems), and a very few spend thousands. Those few % who spend big keep the game free for the rest of us cheapskates.

Nerelith.7360:

FlamingFoxx.1305:

The average player isn’t being steered towards the gem store for gold – if they were Anet would be SUPER RICH.

You’ll mostly likely find that a majority of players don’t even touch the gem store or have spent less than $10USD on it. If you feel the need to buy gold with gems then that is on YOU, not the game. I’m a casual player who doesn’t have a whole lot of time to spend playing since I’m a full time university student (read: most weeks I don’t play at all) but I’ve still managed to always have the gold I need just from playing the game normally. I don’t farm, I hardly ever do dungeons, I don’t do FoTM.

The average player doesn’t need ascended gear or a legendary weapon – they have absolutely no need for super high amounts of gold… The whole game, with the exception of FoTM, was designed around exotic gear – which is very easy to obtain – so you shouldn’t ever NEED to buy gold with gems. If you WANT to, then go ahead. But nobody made you do it.

You underestimate the power of fluff. You totally discount the allure of armor, and weapon skins, when that is all that is mostly all the game has… and then the store puts out a new sexy skin. And players don’t buy gems with Gold.

Just because ALL a player needs is exotics doesn’t mean that the Players are not buying skins at the gem store… or an extra bank slot…or extra bag space.

So no, Just because you haven’t spent any money on the gem store, doesn’t mean you represent the average player. Judging from How many people here also complain about How the game is being monetized…. I think you might be In the Minority. After all… if it were true that " the average player has probably spent 10 USD" then these servers would have been closed ages ago.

See Most people that buy Gold with gems don’t advertise it. They just quietly do it.

Another sign that people feel the need to BUY Gold is all the gold spammers that have surfaced of late. You do Not sell condoms to Eunuchs. You Sell your service where there is a demand. The reason that Anet hates Gold spammers isn’t because " we must protect " the game"" it’s because ..they MUST protect their profit.

The point was that the game doesn’t require players to spend real money buying gems in order to covnert them to gold. If people want to buy skins then that’s cool. It’s their money. But I was responding to someone saying that the “average player” is buying gold using gems. Which is absolutely not true.

Levelord.5746:

You’re going the “you’re not a programmer routine”. I’ve seen this line of reasoning before and in other circumstances, I would agree with you, but that’s ignoring the fact that they’ve already done this exact feature before and implemented it and done it very quickly. So they aren’t strangers to this and it’s very clear from their past actions that this is routine to them.

Yadda yadda.

Other than the examples of the Activities (which he listed and pointed out why that’s easy) and the LS dungeons that were re-added as fractals (again, these are things that were already stand alone instances for 5 people, and this still happened a while after they disappeared), what examples are you talking about? Because there are no examples I can think of in GW2 that counter several of the issues he brought up:

1- Many of the LS bits were designed and executed as open world events. A few people who feel like going back and fighting the marionette have absolutely zero chance of beating her if they were to just re-release it as was.

2- Some parts of the LS followed on from doing things within the LS. Such as accessing Scarlet’s lair.

3- Things added to areas after events can mess with repeats.

4- How do you do the rewards in flash-backs?

5- Player base spreading is also a valid issue.

6- You also have the problem that future changes/overhauls could greatly disrupt how many of these function. Big feature patches that make significant changes could simply get rid of ordinary PvE dynamic events that have problems with those changes, however these flash-backs would theoretically need to stay around.

As we’ve both said, it is MUCH easier to implement with certain content, and you may have noticed they have done it with the already packaged content (activities and dungeons). If you are thinking of examples from other games, then just stop right there. Those examples cannot be used to show ease or speed of implementation. They can be used for ideas of methods and examples of “done well/badly”, but for ease and speed; merely running on a different engine can completely throw that off. Seriously. A different game engine changes so very much from a dev standpoint.
I am going to re-iterate, none of these are insurmountable issues. There are plenty of potential solutions. In fact, here are some examples:

1- Not actually too sure about this. You could NPC the necessary number of others, but with some of the events that would make your input almost irrelevant. Which if you are allowing rewards and achievements is a big problem. Otherwise you are left with reworking those encounters.
2- You need to complete the relevant other flash-back to get to this part (or already have the achievement needed). Or they just grant you access to it (for something like Scarlet’s Lair), but you cannot gain the relevant achievement for doing so.
3- Keep actual instances of the area at the time of the LS and play it within those (would be the only way to do quite a few of them).
4- Do you allow them access to the same rewards from when it was live? That defeats the purpose of them being exclusive rewards. But you’ll need to give them some rewards for their efforts.
5- This could partially be resolved with your choice of rewards for flash-backs (or just certain ones). Make the rewards decent, but not great. This means mostly only people who want the achievements/story will be spread to them.
6- Just rework them, I guess.

The thing to remember: all of those things take time and people to implement. They are changes, and some of them will require significant work. And some parts of the LS would require several or all of those steps. The more of those required, the more balance and bug testing is required, on top of the actual re-designing/programming.
So yes, they could do it. In fact, I think it is very likely they will have something to this effect eventually. There will be too much content gone that it will eventually hit the point where it is too enticing not to necro that content. And I think it will be good when they do implement whatever form of this they choose to.
I do not expect it immediately though. It’d be nice, but I don’t expect it. And maybe they’ll move forward with this in mind, making LS2 more friendly to having this done, who knows. By the sound of it, they may be making LS2 need this sort of thing less.
Regardless, implementation of this for what’s gone so far is (at least if you want it done well) NOT a “very quick” and simple procedure. Especially as they have a backlog to do it with.

Nerelith.7360:

tolunart.2095:

What about the 97% or so of players who never even read the forums, let alone start posting here?

Oh yes, I agree. Only about 3 % of players bother posting in the forums. about 97 % don’t.

Those that do not bother posting and are dissatisfied because they notice how the game is steering the average player to the gem store for gold… and nerfing any decent repeatable, consistent way to earn money, which means any of those Limited time only items on the cash shop will have to be bought with Gold Bought with gems, will skip steps 2 through whatever… and just leave.

I completely and utterly disagree with this.
I play this game with quite a few friends. About 15% of us read the forums. I probably post the most out of us, the others mostly just read.
So the other 85%, just don’t bother with the forums. Not because of anything like what you’ve said. They don’t bother with the forums because to them this is just a game that they enjoy playing. It’s not something they feel they need to spend time on other than actually playing the game. They have fun in game, that is the only side of this there is to them.
They’ll get excited about coming updates and LS. But they find out about this through Faceboob announcements from GW2, map chat, or obvious next steps found in the game (“LA is under attack, we’re evacuating and protecting people, this is awesome, I’m looking forward to when we go on the offensive!”), and I fill them in on the extra details and tidbits mentioned on the forums. Heck most of them don’t even read the patch notes, I fill most of them in on that info too.

I’d wager THIS is what most players are like. Probably the vast majority.
GW2 is a game, and to most of it’s players it’s that first and foremost, and to many it’s only that.

(Edit: Because I forgot to address my disagreement with the other stuff the quotee said)
Oh and I also entirely disagree with your assumptions about wealth. Only one or two of us have ever converted gems to gold, way more have done it the other way around. We play the game, have fun, get what we can afford. When people want more money we do some dungeon runs. Most of us who have spent money on the game have been for new character slots and things (in my case I did it with real money in part because I figured GW2 had entertained me enough to well and truly deserve it).
Quite a few of us have been playing since launch (several of us in the beta). And we have had more friends joining and staying along the way. Sure some people take a break for a bit, but in many cases that’s because something else is taking up their time not because GW2 drove them away. And that’s fine. It’s part of what makes this subscriptionless thing great, you’re free to do this. Only a couple of people have left and not come back.

An MMO is just a game? Inconceivable! Try telling that to the guy who ended up divorced because his wife’s birthday happened to fall on raid night…

It’s probably been said already, but ANet have said in an interview that Season 2 is “mostly” permanent content. So let’s wait and see how it turns out before passing judgement, yes?

I do think they should move the timetable to new stuff every 4 weeks instead of sticking to the biweekly schedule, but like I said, I’ll wait and see.

Lucifers Heaven.2167:

Nerelith.7360:

tolunart.2095:

What about the 97% or so of players who never even read the forums, let alone start posting here?

Oh yes, I agree. Only about 3 % of players bother posting in the forums. about 97 % don’t.

Those that do not bother posting and are dissatisfied because they notice how the game is steering the average player to the gem store for gold… and nerfing any decent repeatable, consistent way to earn money, which means any of those Limited time only items on the cash shop will have to be bought with Gold Bought with gems, will skip steps 2 through whatever… and just leave.

I completely and utterly disagree with this.
I play this game with quite a few friends. About 15% of us read the forums. I probably post the most out of us, the others mostly just read.
So the other 85%, just don’t bother with the forums. Not because of anything like what you’ve said. They don’t bother with the forums because to them this is just a game that they enjoy playing. It’s not something they feel they need to spend time on other than actually playing the game. They have fun in game, that is the only side of this there is to them.
They’ll get excited about coming updates and LS. But they find out about this through Faceboob announcements from GW2, map chat, or obvious next steps found in the game (“LA is under attack, we’re evacuating and protecting people, this is awesome, I’m looking forward to when we go on the offensive!”), and I fill them in on the extra details and tidbits mentioned on the forums. Heck most of them don’t even read the patch notes, I fill most of them in on that info too.

I’d wager THIS is what most players are like. Probably the vast majority.
GW2 is a game, and to most of it’s players it’s that first and foremost, and to many it’s only that.

(Edit: Because I forgot to address my disagreement with the other stuff the quotee said)
Oh and I also entirely disagree with your assumptions about wealth. Only one or two of us have ever converted gems to gold, way more have done it the other way around. We play the game, have fun, get what we can afford. When people want more money we do some dungeon runs. Most of us who have spent money on the game have been for new character slots and things (in my case I did it with real money in part because I figured GW2 had entertained me enough to well and truly deserve it).
Quite a few of us have been playing since launch (several of us in the beta). And we have had more friends joining and staying along the way. Sure some people take a break for a bit, but in many cases that’s because something else is taking up their time not because GW2 drove them away. And that’s fine. It’s part of what makes this subscriptionless thing great, you’re free to do this. Only a couple of people have left and not come back.

All he is saying is that if people are not on the forums it don’t mean they have no problems with the game, and if they leave they also just leave but without posting on the forum. The “The forum are not all the players” seems to be used as an argument like if all other people have no complains and that of course is not true.

A R W E N.6895:

and what proves you that the dev’s will actually do as they say?

Remember precursor crafting?

Who says precursor crafting isn’t coming? Really, with your attitude all that possible for you to do is argue.

Devata.6589:

Lucifers Heaven.2167:

Nerelith.7360:

tolunart.2095:

What about the 97% or so of players who never even read the forums, let alone start posting here?

Oh yes, I agree. Only about 3 % of players bother posting in the forums. about 97 % don’t.

Those that do not bother posting and are dissatisfied because they notice how the game is steering the average player to the gem store for gold… and nerfing any decent repeatable, consistent way to earn money, which means any of those Limited time only items on the cash shop will have to be bought with Gold Bought with gems, will skip steps 2 through whatever… and just leave.

I completely and utterly disagree with this.
I play this game with quite a few friends. About 15% of us read the forums. I probably post the most out of us, the others mostly just read.
So the other 85%, just don’t bother with the forums. Not because of anything like what you’ve said. They don’t bother with the forums because to them this is just a game that they enjoy playing. It’s not something they feel they need to spend time on other than actually playing the game. They have fun in game, that is the only side of this there is to them.
They’ll get excited about coming updates and LS. But they find out about this through Faceboob announcements from GW2, map chat, or obvious next steps found in the game (“LA is under attack, we’re evacuating and protecting people, this is awesome, I’m looking forward to when we go on the offensive!”), and I fill them in on the extra details and tidbits mentioned on the forums. Heck most of them don’t even read the patch notes, I fill most of them in on that info too.

I’d wager THIS is what most players are like. Probably the vast majority.
GW2 is a game, and to most of it’s players it’s that first and foremost, and to many it’s only that.

(Edit: Because I forgot to address my disagreement with the other stuff the quotee said)
Oh and I also entirely disagree with your assumptions about wealth. Only one or two of us have ever converted gems to gold, way more have done it the other way around. We play the game, have fun, get what we can afford. When people want more money we do some dungeon runs. Most of us who have spent money on the game have been for new character slots and things (in my case I did it with real money in part because I figured GW2 had entertained me enough to well and truly deserve it).
Quite a few of us have been playing since launch (several of us in the beta). And we have had more friends joining and staying along the way. Sure some people take a break for a bit, but in many cases that’s because something else is taking up their time not because GW2 drove them away. And that’s fine. It’s part of what makes this subscriptionless thing great, you’re free to do this. Only a couple of people have left and not come back.

All he is saying is that if people are not on the forums it don’t mean they have no problems with the game, and if they leave they also just leave but without posting on the forum. The “The forum are not all the players” seems to be used as an argument like if all other people have no complains and that of course is not true.

She…not he. Just a pet peeve of mine.

But you are correct. The fact is, that there are happy gamers in game happilly playing… and Not Posting on the forums. But there are also players that are not happy… and are disatisfied that are not Posting on the forums.

It seems that when a player is content with the way the game is going, and a forum poster says anything critical, some will simply say " well…only 3 % of players come to the forums>" as if that somehow means " Only 3 % of players are dissatisfied, the other 97 % are happy."

Fact is, we have No idea how many of the players in the game that do not bother posting are actually happy with the game.

My belief USED to be…Only complainers post on forums, if you are happy, you don’;t bother. But I used to be happy playing, and I also Bothered to post.

I think People that CARE Post here…. Some….Not all… of the people In game may be entertained, but sometimes they do not care. If they are entertaibned, they play, if they ar enot, they leave. But to say " everyone in game, the 97 % that do not post are happy, I can discount this forum Poster. " is a Bit… Hopeful I guess.

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

I guess we won’t have long to wait to find out…only ~4 weeks. =)

4 weeks?! this better be good.

Thobek.1730:

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

I guess we won’t have long to wait to find out…only ~4 weeks. =)

…. this better be good.

I see what you did there… good one! lol

Lambent.6375:

LS 2 is most likely opening up with a new permanent zone.

I hope so. I want to see what happened to Dry Top and The Falls. We didn’t get nearly enough Maguuma Wastes in this game and hardly any mentions of the Shining Blade vs. White Mantle.