Guild Wars 2

So Marjory, Kasmeer, Rox and Braham are having a glass of milk in The Dead End, they have a nice talk. You should probably go there and see it, seems Anet is creating the New Destiny’s Edge, where 1 won’t run away, another will not be bossy and third will not be stubborn, fourth is Kasmeer.

Yeah, and they mentioned E, too.
I thought E mas just for the “Mystery – Mr. E” pun, and that ANet had dropped that part of the plot. I am surprised and happy they didn’t ^^

nice find and im glad they didnt drop mr E

Eh? But Destiny’s Edge usually have one from every race…

Right now, it’s 2 humans, 1 norn, and 1 charr… We need an asura, and sylvari.

Kain Francois.4328:

Eh? But Destiny’s Edge usually have one from every race…

Right now, it’s 2 humans, 1 norn, and 1 charr… We need an asura, and sylvari.

They’re plant people, and another one is always stubborn

g e o.2589:

Kain Francois.4328:

Eh? But Destiny’s Edge usually have one from every race…

Right now, it’s 2 humans, 1 norn, and 1 charr… We need an asura, and sylvari.

They’re plant people, and another one is always stubborn

SCARLET!!!!!!

Leader of the new Destiny’s Edge!

UMAD?

As a sylvari I’d be happy to see a new friendly sylvari face in this nice group. Then again, I’d be really interested in seeing Scarlet have additional dialogue for my sylvari considering we’re of the same race; one of the things I enjoyed in the Dead End dialogue was the banter between my sylvari and Kasmeer about her views on sylvari and how naïve our race is. Lovely stuff which adds nice character dynamics between the two of us.

Anyway, thanks for the tip. It was nice listening to interaction between the characters and see them develop as the character dynamics start to emerge. The conversations provide interesting tidbits, not only about E’s involvement (which I liked) but also Rox’s current state, which leads me to believe that if/once she’s accepted into Rytlock’s warband, it might happen at the end of this story arc in the final patches as a “conclusion” of this particular subplot.

The conversations also mentioned Beigarth, the norn fellow who taught Scarlet. Has his Scarlet dialogue existed in Hoelbrak before this patch? Either way, it was nice getting to hear his insight on Scarlet in that additional dialogue option after we got those other conversations with one of the asura councillors and the Pale Tree about Scarlet earlier.

I also went to the Black Citadel to chat with Rytlock after I heard what Rox had to say about him being busy with Legion business, and I got very interested when I didn’t find Rytlock in his office and learned that he’s moved towards Lion’s Arch. I haven’t been able to see him in LA or the surrounding areas yet (he might only show up in the next patch unless I missed some obvious spot), but that’s a nice bit of foreshadowing, maybe with ties to the probe investigations or Consortium stuff? I haven’t checked yet if charr characters have additional dialogue which might reveal more about Rytlock’s current mission, but I’ll be sure to check it out after that nice bit of additional dialogue for my sylvari in Dead End.

With Rytlock moving towards LA, Evon mentioning LA’s weakened defenses in passing and how Scarlet might try to attack LA again…I can’t help but wonder whether the hints mean that the conclusion of this “Scarlet saga” will indeed have a final battle in LA where we deal with Scarlet once and for all, or if this is all red herrings to lead us astray…considering we still have those mysterious probes as well as Consortium schemes to deal with, too (and looks like they might all lead towards the same outcome as loose ends are tied together…or maybe this is just wishful thinking on my part). Either way, LA is sure to get involved in one of the upcoming patches, and I look forward to finding out what’s in store for Tyria, our characters and their friends (hopefully with some added development for the likes of Canach and Mai Trin if we’re lucky).

Kudos to the writing team at any rate. Even if the pacing might’ve been a bit slow at times and the storyline and dialogue has had its ups and downs, I do like how you’re adding stuff from the short stories into the game to add depth to the storyline and how you keep the mystery going with these neat little additions which the community are discovering one bit at a time. You’ve got me hooked since the delightfully Raymond Chandler-esque Marjory introduction cutscene, so tease us with the answers to these riddles as we move towards the big finale!

Destiny’s Shield?

They defend Tyria from the Dragons, while Destiny’s Edge assaults the Dragons directly?

Kain Francois.4328:

Eh? But Destiny’s Edge usually have one from every race…

Right now, it’s 2 humans, 1 norn, and 1 charr… We need an asura, and sylvari.

I’m still hoping that Canach will end up being part of the group. The snarky comments would be priceless.
As for the asura, well, maybe some new asura is introduced next year.
And remember that the Destiny’s Edge used to have two asuras, so it is not exactly “one from every race” ^^

Brother Dulfite.5793:

Destiny’s Shield?

They defend Tyria from the Dragons, while Destiny’s Edge assaults the Dragons directly?

It not that easy to make a name for heroes group >_>.

Destiny’s edge was formed because of the group of arena fighters (Logan, Rytlock, and Caithe) knew as Edge of Steel, mixed with the group of Dragonspawn’s Destiny.

So, they become all together the Destiny’s Edge.

Would’nt make any sense a group named Destiny Shield

Dear Rata Sum,

We do not need asura except as bait, or to make sure a gate doesn’t explode. Again.

Sincerely,
Tobias

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Dear Rata Sum,

We do not need asura except as bait, or to make sure a gate doesn’t explode. Again.

Sincerely,
Tobias

Only to remember YOU, asurans was just THE KEY into the destiny edge history. Without snaff, no one champion would be killed. And remember, that snaff had taken control over Kralkatorrik mind.

While Logan, runned away f*ing with everyone. Only to remember hehe

MauricioCezar.2673:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Dear Rata Sum,

We do not need asura except as bait, or to make sure a gate doesn’t explode. Again.

Sincerely,
Tobias

Only to remember YOU, asurans was just THE KEY into the destiny edge history. Without snaff, no one champion would be killed. And remember, that snaff had taken control over Kralkatorrik mind.

While Logan, runned away f*ing with everyone. Only to remember hehe

Snaff is rather much a dragon snack right now, so I dunno if preaching about how useful he was to the effort is a good idea.

But no, please, leave the insufferable geniuses at home. We took care of at least one dragon champion without their direct assistance . . . the norn and Ebon Vanguard were much more useful, not to mention the dwarves. (Rest their stone hearts.) And no gods either so the charr don’t need to posture about how they’re awesome without them.

Just roll out the armor columns and artillery under Gear Warband, get the Slayer of Issormir sober, and recruit from the Lionguard. We’ll get the real heroes to Primordius in no time.

And by real heroes, I of course mean Ho-ho Tron and his faithful comedic sidekick, that spoony bard.

Great, more characters to steal the spotlight from the player character. Watch us kill Scarlet and these morons take the credit after standing around while we destroy hordes of mobs.

Traveller.7496:

Great, more characters to steal the spotlight from the player character. Watch us kill Scarlet and these morons take the credit after standing around while we destroy hordes of mobs.

You say this like it’s a common occurrence. I haven’t had any non-comical NPCs take credit for things my characters have done, yet.

Need a sylvari you say…

Plot Twist: I bet the last member is Scarlet.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

You say this like it’s a common occurrence. I haven’t had any non-comical NPCs take credit for things my characters have done, yet.

I’d like you to meet Trahearne and Kormir.

Although I guess we can debate whether or not Trahearne is meant for comic relief.

“You say this like it’s a common occurrence. I haven’t had any non-comical NPCs take credit for things my characters have done, yet.”

Really? Anyone who logs on for the first time tomorrow has effectively the same progress in the living story as you do. That’s because the living story updates through world characters rather than player characters. Kiel has a camp named after her for exploring Southsun, she’s captured an aetherblade ship, and taken a seat on Lion’s Arch council. Did you get any credit for that?

Traveller.7496:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

You say this like it’s a common occurrence. I haven’t had any non-comical NPCs take credit for things my characters have done, yet.

I’d like you to meet Trahearne and Kormir.

Although I guess we can debate whether or not Trahearne is meant for comic relief.

He’s not, and don’t get started on Kormir because that’s a different person entirely than the Hero of Shaemoor/Slayer of Issormir/Valiant/Snaff Prize Winner. Also, that Tobias was well rewarded for going to the Realm of Torment and back, what with a goddess being known personally just in case.

Stooperdale.3560:

“You say this like it’s a common occurrence. I haven’t had any non-comical NPCs take credit for things my characters have done, yet.”

Really? Anyone who logs on for the first time tomorrow has effectively the same progress in the living story as you do. That’s because the living story updates through world characters rather than player characters. Kiel has a camp named after her for exploring Southsun, she’s captured an aetherblade ship, and taken a seat on Lion’s Arch council. Did you get any credit for that?

Yes.

I didn’t get a council seat, and I didn’t get a camp named after me in Southsun, and before someone adds to it, I am not Marshall of the Pact. I also don’t want any of those things. Politics, as Evon Gnashblade found out, is a nasty business . . . Southsun is someplace I never want to set foot again . . .

. . . and the Pact is better served with a leader who doesn’t go get distracted by some overgrown weed and snakes in Kessex Hills. Or the Mist War.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

I didn’t get a council seat, and I didn’t get a camp named after me in Southsun, and before someone adds to it, I am not Marshall of the Pact. I also don’t want any of those things. Politics, as Evon Gnashblade found out, is a nasty business . . . Southsun is someplace I never want to set foot again . . .

. . . and the Pact is better served with a leader who doesn’t go get distracted by some overgrown weed and snakes in Kessex Hills. Or the Mist War.

I’ve noticed people tend to articulate the nature of the “stealing credit” poorly and point to how different characters are “rewarded” in the story over our own. It’s less about characters themselves intentionally “stealing” credit, and more that the story acknowledges them more than it does you. For example, the personal story mission in the ruins where the NPCs go on and on about being rescued by Trahearne, while you were the one who actually made things happen. Or when you defeat the boss, and the cutscene following is filled with the characters praising Trahearne for taking him down while you don’t have a single line in the entire cutscene. Or when you kill Zhaitan, and the group of NPCs who say something along the lines of “Three cheers for Trahearne!” and afterwards, one goes “And don’t forget the commander!” And that’s it.

The game absolutely does a very poor job of properly positioning the PC in the story in a way that’s congruent with his/her actions and accomplishments, opting instead to elevate the roles the NPCs play.

Regarding credit stealing, I’m with Tobias here. I don’t care for what a bunch of nameless npcs think.
If they think that Trahearne saved them, good for them. They know how an army works (was it Napoleon that won so many battles, or his commanders?).
All I care about is for what the important npcs think of me. Trahearne is forever grateful and lets you know all the time that he wouldn’t have gotten anything done if it wasn’t for you. I don’t need nameless npcs knowing who I am and what I did if the Marshal of the Pact knows and praises me for that.

Cliff.8679:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

I didn’t get a council seat, and I didn’t get a camp named after me in Southsun, and before someone adds to it, I am not Marshall of the Pact. I also don’t want any of those things. Politics, as Evon Gnashblade found out, is a nasty business . . . Southsun is someplace I never want to set foot again . . .

. . . and the Pact is better served with a leader who doesn’t go get distracted by some overgrown weed and snakes in Kessex Hills. Or the Mist War.

I’ve noticed people tend to articulate the nature of the “stealing credit” poorly and point to how different characters are “rewarded” in the story over our own. It’s less about characters themselves intentionally “stealing” credit, and more that the story acknowledges them more than it does you. For example, the personal story mission in the ruins where the NPCs go on and on about being rescued by Trahearne, while you were the one who actually made things happen. Or when you defeat the boss, and the cutscene following is filled with the characters praising Trahearne for taking him down while you don’t have a single line in the entire cutscene. Or when you kill Zhaitan, and the group of NPCs who say something along the lines of “Three cheers for Trahearne!” and afterwards, one goes “And don’t forget the commander!” And that’s it.

I’m going to do it, again. Linked is something which pretty much dropkicks that interpretation in the teeth.

Quoting: “You’re an inspiration, Commander. Many believe that if we can defeat Zhaitan, Jormag will be next. Your deeds bring great hope to the norn.”

YOUR deeds. Not TRAEHERNE’S, not the Pact, YOURS.

The game absolutely does a very poor job of properly positioning the PC in the story in a way that’s congruent with his/her actions and accomplishments, opting instead to elevate the roles the NPCs play.

Yes and no.

Hero of Shaemoor. Slayer of Issormir. Both of these persist into Living Story, even if it’s throwaways. Countess Anise remembered Tobias during the Queen’s Gauntlet. Also, Braham and Rox do a great job of remembering you and basically going “hey, we’re going to come along, this looks like fun”.

Personal story, however, due to the modular nature of how it proceeds, has the early accomplishments (Chapters 1, 2, and 3) almost disappear as soon as they leave into the broader world (the Order chapters). At the end, Crusader Deborah (sis?!) didn’t even know I existed despite saving her from imprisonment.

Gabby.3205:

Regarding credit stealing, I’m with Tobias here. I don’t care for what a bunch of nameless npcs think.
If they think that Trahearne saved them, good for them. They know how an army works (was it Napoleon that won so many battles, or his commanders?).
All I care about is for what the important npcs think of me. Trahearne is forever grateful and lets you know all the time that he wouldn’t have gotten anything done if it wasn’t for you. I don’t need nameless npcs knowing who I am and what I did if the Marshal of the Pact knows and praises me for that.

It’s not quite what I’m saying. The NPCs know you’re responsible. They do respect you, even though they follow Traeherne, you are recognized as important to things getting done. More than a few times in the last chapter, the NPCs will say things like what’s linked in the image below.

They know your push, your support of the forces on the front, is what allows the Marshall’s planning and orders to succeed. That is the glory which Traeherne does not get.

Now, Kiel? She’s been around for over a year (real time) and one of the repeated things is she sees you coming and goes “oh, I am glad you’re around to help”. She trusts in you to be able to get things done even if you’re not Lionguard.

I’m relatively certain when (not if) Scarlet is finally taken down it’ll be followed with Braham and Rox saying how much they are glad they had a chance to be with you in the process.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Cliff.8679:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

I didn’t get a council seat, and I didn’t get a camp named after me in Southsun, and before someone adds to it, I am not Marshall of the Pact. I also don’t want any of those things. Politics, as Evon Gnashblade found out, is a nasty business . . . Southsun is someplace I never want to set foot again . . .

. . . and the Pact is better served with a leader who doesn’t go get distracted by some overgrown weed and snakes in Kessex Hills. Or the Mist War.

I’ve noticed people tend to articulate the nature of the “stealing credit” poorly and point to how different characters are “rewarded” in the story over our own. It’s less about characters themselves intentionally “stealing” credit, and more that the story acknowledges them more than it does you. For example, the personal story mission in the ruins where the NPCs go on and on about being rescued by Trahearne, while you were the one who actually made things happen. Or when you defeat the boss, and the cutscene following is filled with the characters praising Trahearne for taking him down while you don’t have a single line in the entire cutscene. Or when you kill Zhaitan, and the group of NPCs who say something along the lines of “Three cheers for Trahearne!” and afterwards, one goes “And don’t forget the commander!” And that’s it.

I’m going to do it, again. Linked is something which pretty much dropkicks that interpretation in the teeth.

Quoting: “You’re an inspiration, Commander. Many believe that if we can defeat Zhaitan, Jormag will be next. Your deeds bring great hope to the norn.”

YOUR deeds. Not TRAEHERNE’S, not the Pact, YOURS.

The game absolutely does a very poor job of properly positioning the PC in the story in a way that’s congruent with his/her actions and accomplishments, opting instead to elevate the roles the NPCs play.

Yes and no.

Hero of Shaemoor. Slayer of Issormir. Both of these persist into Living Story, even if it’s throwaways. Countess Anise remembered Tobias during the Queen’s Gauntlet. Also, Braham and Rox do a great job of remembering you and basically going “hey, we’re going to come along, this looks like fun”.

Personal story, however, due to the modular nature of how it proceeds, has the early accomplishments (Chapters 1, 2, and 3) almost disappear as soon as they leave into the broader world (the Order chapters). At the end, Crusader Deborah (sis?!) didn’t even know I existed despite saving her from imprisonment.

Yeah, no, sorry. A single example doesn’t “dropkick that interpretation in the teeth” when there are far more examples in the other direction. ArenaNet has even come out and admitted that they need to do a better job with this in other threads that have brought up similar issues. But hey, if you don’t have an issue with it, that’s great.

As for NPCs remembering you in the living story, I don’t think that’s even worth mentioning as being an example of the PC being positioned well within the story. Could you imagine playing any story where every time you met the same character, they had no idea who you were?

But I do agree that they have been (slowly) getting better about this. I complimented the team who made the destruction of the tower in Kessex instance due to them deliberately making the cutscene at the beginning pan around not only Kasmeer and Marjory, but our characters as well. It was a small detail, but the game has been lacking small details like that from the start, and it adds up. NPC dialogue has been one of the absolute biggest offenders, and that’s something that can be easily remedied. I don’t know if we’ll really be able to see any good come from all the Trahearne/personal story backlash until we get the next installment of actual personal story stuff, though.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Gabby.3205:

Regarding credit stealing, I’m with Tobias here. I don’t care for what a bunch of nameless npcs think.
If they think that Trahearne saved them, good for them. They know how an army works (was it Napoleon that won so many battles, or his commanders?).
All I care about is for what the important npcs think of me. Trahearne is forever grateful and lets you know all the time that he wouldn’t have gotten anything done if it wasn’t for you. I don’t need nameless npcs knowing who I am and what I did if the Marshal of the Pact knows and praises me for that.

It’s not quite what I’m saying. The NPCs know you’re responsible. They do respect you, even though they follow Traeherne, you are recognized as important to things getting done. More than a few times in the last chapter, the NPCs will say things like what’s linked in the image below.

They know your push, your support of the forces on the front, is what allows the Marshall’s planning and orders to succeed. That is the glory which Traeherne does not get.

Now, Kiel? She’s been around for over a year (real time) and one of the repeated things is she sees you coming and goes “oh, I am glad you’re around to help”. She trusts in you to be able to get things done even if you’re not Lionguard.

I’m relatively certain when (not if) Scarlet is finally taken down it’ll be followed with Braham and Rox saying how much they are glad they had a chance to be with you in the process.

I got it, I was agreeing with you and adding my own imput :P
As I said, I am happy named npcs (the ones that are important) know who I am. If “Pact Soldier” or some other random, nameless npc does not, I couldn’t care less. Their opinion is irrelevant. The npcs that matter are glad I was there, and that is enough ^^

Cliff.8679:

Yeah, no, sorry. A single example doesn’t “dropkick that interpretation in the teeth” when there are far more examples in the other direction.

I got more, and you’ve probably noticed at least one other. I have others through the missions in Orr (and probably will have to gather more as I get to do other paths). I still have yet to have one example screenshot be posted where you are clearly getting sidelined in the story in favor of Traeherne, despite doing the work.

Not one.

ArenaNet has even come out and admitted that they need to do a better job with this in other threads that have brought up similar issues. But hey, if you don’t have an issue with it, that’s great.

I didn’t say I don’t have an issue, or that they couldn’t do better. I said I haven’t seen the blatant “he stole my glory” people keep bringing up.

As for NPCs remembering you in the living story, I don’t think that’s even worth mentioning as being an example of the PC being positioned well within the story. Could you imagine playing any story where every time you met the same character, they had no idea who you were?

. . . I only remember one time (and it was patched) in the Queen’s Gauntlet where Rox and Braham’s dialogue was very generic. VERY. Any other time I could literally watch one dialogue screen get replaced by the other and see Countess Anise go basically “hey I know who you are” to Tobias.

I’m more concerned we had no idea who the heck Captain Evon Gnashblade was as a character until he shouldered his way into the whole “Cutthroat Politics” bit. He was (from what I recall) a static NPC who got a little bit to talk about but no sense of who he was . . . compared to Ellen Kiel, who we knew and knew us from other adventures.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

I still have yet to have one example screenshot be posted where you are clearly getting sidelined in the story in favor of Traeherne, despite doing the work.

Not one.

This one’s one of my favorites. Quick Google image search of “Trahearne” was all I needed. Perfectly encompasses the whole idea of the PC not even being there. The dialogue is directed at Trahearne even though you’re the one talking. This is from the mission that also has the final cutscene after defeating the boss not even feature the PC whatsoever, and instead includes all of the NPCs praising Trahearne for defeating the big bad lich.

And like I said, I agree, I think it’s wrong for players to say that “Trahearne stole my glory,” and it’s more accurate to say that the story itself is written in such a way that it happily demotes the player to a supporting character while Trahearne becomes the star of the show, and the fact that NPCs and our PCs alike constantly trip over one another to talk about how incredible he is gets very old, very fast. Just take a look at nearly every PC dialogue option for “Charm” that you have when interacting with him. That’s a terrible way to do a personal story that’s “really all about you.” Especially when the star character doesn’t have a single quality that warrants him being the star. Trahearne is more of a recipient than a thief, in my eyes.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

. . . I only remember one time (and it was patched) in the Queen’s Gauntlet where Rox and Braham’s dialogue was very generic. VERY. Any other time I could literally watch one dialogue screen get replaced by the other and see Countess Anise go basically “hey I know who you are” to Tobias.

I’m more concerned we had no idea who the heck Captain Evon Gnashblade was as a character until he shouldered his way into the whole “Cutthroat Politics” bit. He was (from what I recall) a static NPC who got a little bit to talk about but no sense of who he was . . . compared to Ellen Kiel, who we knew and knew us from other adventures.

Yeah, I was saying that the whole “positioning within the story” thing was an issue independent of characters remembering who you are, because that’s something you should expect anyway. That Gnashblade thing definitely could’ve been handled better…there was no way he was ever going to win the election for exactly the reason you mentioned. Had he been involved in the living story up to that point, and not portrayed as a conniving villain in his first appearance, the election would’ve been a lot more interesting.

Cliff.8679:

This one’s one of my favorites. Quick Google image search of “Trahearne” was all I needed. Perfectly encompasses the whole idea of the PC not even being there. The dialogue is directed at Trahearne even though you’re the one talking. This is from the mission that also has the final cutscene after defeating the boss not even feature the PC whatsoever, and instead includes all of the NPCs praising Trahearne for defeating the big bad lich.

. . . and you’re the first person to reply with a screenshot to me where I could go research the point in question. And I have no idea about Kekt but it appears he’s Priory. Makes sense to be focused on Traherne.

But in the same mission:

Crusader Afanen: We’ll take things from here, Commander. I’ll make sure Trahearne gets back to Concordia safely.

So it’s a mixed bag.

And like I said, I agree, I think it’s wrong for players to say that “Trahearne stole my glory,” and it’s more accurate to say that the story itself is written in such a way that it happily demotes the player to a supporting character while Trahearne becomes the star of the show, and the fact that NPCs and our PCs alike constantly trip over one another to talk about how incredible he is gets very old, very fast. Just take a look at nearly every PC dialogue option for “Charm” that you have when interacting with him. That’s a terrible way to do a personal story that’s “really all about you.” Especially when the star character doesn’t have a single quality that warrants him being the star. Trahearne is more of a recipient than a thief, in my eyes.

It’s really weird because it didn’t feel to me like I was ever playing second fiddle to Traherne. Sure, they do talk about how he has the accomplishments of being a Firstborn Sylvari (fact, not opinion, and of variable weight since they’re still young) . . . that he studied Orr and the Risen (and managed to not get killed, which once you run around in Orr for five minutes suggests he was decent about stealth),

In the same vein, your character gets venerated just about as much. You at least get acknowledgement of the Orders on reaching the second battle at Claw Island for wrangling people there. And it’s your success which drives the Pact to be created, and the representatives ALL show you respect after it’s over.

Seriously, from what I’ve seen it sets up the story so the Commander is increasingly known more for getting the job done after the Marshall posts the orders.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

. . . and you’re the first person to reply with a screenshot to me where I could go research the point in question. And I have no idea about Kekt but it appears he’s Priory. Makes sense to be focused on Traherne.

But in the same mission:

Crusader Afanen: We’ll take things from here, Commander. I’ll make sure Trahearne gets back to Concordia safely.

So it’s a mixed bag.

What does Kekt being a Priory NPC have to do with anything? There’s no more connection there than with any of the other Orders. The main issue is that there’s no reason to be focused on Trahearne whatsoever when he’s speaking directly to the PC, and the PC is the one who actually saved him.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

It’s really weird because it didn’t feel to me like I was ever playing second fiddle to Traherne. Sure, they do talk about how he has the accomplishments of being a Firstborn Sylvari (fact, not opinion, and of variable weight since they’re still young) . . . that he studied Orr and the Risen (and managed to not get killed, which once you run around in Orr for five minutes suggests he was decent about stealth),

In the same vein, your character gets venerated just about as much. You at least get acknowledgement of the Orders on reaching the second battle at Claw Island for wrangling people there. And it’s your success which drives the Pact to be created, and the representatives ALL show you respect after it’s over.

Seriously, from what I’ve seen it sets up the story so the Commander is increasingly known more for getting the job done after the Marshall posts the orders.

Being a Firstborn isn’t an accomplishment, it’s just more story positioning. It’s a fancy way of saying he’s important because he’s important. Studying Orr and the Risen would have made him a fine supporting character to offer our PCs valuable information, not be the center of the personal story.

I’m not saying that the story doesn’t acknowledge the PC whatsoever. Certainly, you get acknowledged for your actions at times, praised for your deeds, etc. Gotham City is grateful to the Boy Wonder, after all. What I’m saying is the way they went about focusing the story on Trahearne post-Claw Island is a systemic issue that makes the player’s role in the personal story suffer. If you don’t feel like your character’s role in his personal story is diminished when the Pale Tree is showing the future of what will happen in Orr, and all you see is Trahearne giving a speech to the Pact troops with your character nowhere in sight, I’m not sure what to tell you. Or when she grants him the GW2 equivalent of the Legend of Zelda’s Master Sword, or King Arthur’s Excalibur, and tells him something along the lines of “Your duty is to cleanse Orr, and your friend here will help you.” Or how Trahearne’s big moment, the second-to-last mission (The Source of Orr), comes off as more of a finale than the 5-man Zhaitan fight through which you may not even be in the cutscenes depending on who started the dungeon. There are just too many poor decisions with the handling of the post-Claw Island personal story from both a writing perspective and a presentation perspective to ignore with this issue.

Anyway, this has gotten way offtopic and is better served in the huge thread about this issue. I don’t want to hijack this one. Obviously there’s a difference of opinion, and hopefully they’ll learn from the feedback they’ve gotten in both the personal story and living story’s to craft better storytelling experiences for us in the future that everyone can enjoy.

Cliff.8679:

Anyway, this has gotten way offtopic and is better served in the huge thread about this issue. I don’t want to hijack this one. Obviously there’s a difference of opinion, and hopefully they’ll learn from the feedback they’ve gotten in both the personal story and living story’s to craft better storytelling experiences for us in the future that everyone can enjoy.

Agreed it veered off topic . . . and I stopped posting in the thread because very little discussion (like ours) actually happens.

But then, I have a simple self-guidance. I don’t expect the storytelling to be awesome as if it were written by George R.R. Martin and don’t get upset when it turns out to be more like Stephen King.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

I don’t expect the storytelling to be awesome as if it were written by George R.R. Martin and don’t get upset when it turns out to be more like Stephen King.

Stephen King is awesome. I simply wish it would be at least as good as the storyline and writing of GW1.

Traveller.7496:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

I don’t expect the storytelling to be awesome as if it were written by George R.R. Martin and don’t get upset when it turns out to be more like Stephen King.

Stephen King is awesome. I simply wish it would be at least as good as the storyline and writing of GW1.

Stephen King is formulaic at times, and his best writing isn’t in his long forms but in his short forms. I love his short stories, and find his novellas at least well-written if not his best work . . . but his novels? “The Tommyknockers” was nowhere near as tightly written as his novellas.

Don’t get me wrong, I respect a guy who can write as much as he does and make a living off it. But I think his best work is shorter forms – much like the Guild Wars team seems to have a better grasp of small parts rather than an overarching whole.

And I would say the writing and storyline of GW2 is definitely better than the base writing of Guild Wars: Prophecies.

Mr. E = Evon Gnashblade

Soulstar.7812:

Mr. E = Evon Gnashblade

If this turned out to be true I’d probably call shenanigans on the writers for squarely pulling it from someplace dark and cramped.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Soulstar.7812:

Mr. E = Evon Gnashblade

If this turned out to be true I’d probably call shenanigans on the writers for squarely pulling it from someplace dark and cramped.

Mr. E = Mystery ….