Guild Wars 2

So commanding lanes for the Marionette has been very interesting. Just getting people to listen to me is the hardest part. Many players don’t even know what squads are, much less that squad chat exists. I’m constantly switching between /say, /map, and /squad and I still can’t get through to some people.

This thread is about stacking might. If you stack in front of the portal and load up might, it’s a huge help on the wardens. That means bursting fire fields, guardian staff 4, and anything else you have that gives area might. This is page 1 of the strategy book in WvW and it’s as simple as standing on the blue dorito and pressing 1-2 buttons.

So why can’t I get my lanes to do it? I can barely get them all to the portal in time, no matter which chat I use. And forget getting them to stack for a lane count; easier to just count with my eyes. So tell me PvE: what’s it going to take before we learn this?

I PLAY HOW I WANT!

Squee Squashington.5189:

I PLAY HOW I WANT!

I’m quite certain this post was in jest, but it’s attitudes like this (the ones who are serious) that ruin group content throughout the game. People who want to be selfish instead of helping the group, go play a single player game like Skyrim please.

@OP: It sounds like Anet wants to slowly teach the community to play better over time. Several recent dev posts have indicated that they want to “raise the aggregate skill level” of all players as a community. I applaud them for setting forth on such a bold initiative, but I fear this road will be muddied with many tears. Time is what it will take. Either people will adapt, or they will rage quit. Eventually we will have a community that cares more about the game and less about being lazy and unhelpful to each other.

That “I play how I want” attitude is one of the reasons why they should have made large scale encounter content be instanced. It’s already been stated that the Wurms was designed for large hardcore guilds in mind but then they make it in the open world where you have to deal with any randoms that are in the zone as well. They can leave it in the open world so if by some chance a server wanted to get together to do it but have an option for it to be an instanced raid type.

If I had to guess, I’d say it’s just going to take a lot of repetition. I’d never heard of this might stacking thing before and I’ve never been asked to do it in a Marionette match either, and I’ve been running them repeatedly since event day one. And I had no idea about stacking for commanders to count until this event. There are a lot of PvE players out there who just don’t know about stuff that’s commonly done in WvW.

Enko.6123:

That “I play how I want” attitude is one of the reasons why they should have made large scale encounter content be instanced. It’s already been stated that the Wurms was designed for large hardcore guilds in mind but then they make it in the open world where you have to deal with any randoms that are in the zone as well. They can leave it in the open world so if by some chance a server wanted to get together to do it but have an option for it to be an instanced raid type.

I made a thread about this.

Open world raids like this are fine, but adding instanced content would be better. It would relieve the pressure of hardcapping open-world pve maps while also giving raid leaders more control over their groups and how they deal with encounters.

cherrycola.3127:

If I had to guess, I’d say it’s just going to take a lot of repetition. I’d never heard of this might stacking thing before and I’ve never been asked to do it in a Marionette match either, and I’ve been running them repeatedly since event day one. And I had no idea about stacking for commanders to count until this event. There are a lot of PvE players out there who just don’t know about stuff that’s commonly done in WvW.

How long have you been playing? That just seems kind of crazy to me to have never heard of might stacking unless you deliberately never stepped one foot inside WvW, or have been playing for less than a month. No disrespect, it just goes to show that Anet probably needs to somehow do a better job of teaching the whole combo field mechanic to new players.

Xenon.4537:

cherrycola.3127:

If I had to guess, I’d say it’s just going to take a lot of repetition. I’d never heard of this might stacking thing before and I’ve never been asked to do it in a Marionette match either, and I’ve been running them repeatedly since event day one. And I had no idea about stacking for commanders to count until this event. There are a lot of PvE players out there who just don’t know about stuff that’s commonly done in WvW.

How long have you been playing? That just seems kind of crazy to me to have never heard of might stacking unless you deliberately never stepped one foot inside WvW, or have been playing for less than a month. No disrespect, it just goes to show that Anet probably needs to somehow do a better job of teaching the whole combo field mechanic to new players.

I did, in fact, deliberately never step one foot inside WvW from launch day because I don’t like PvP. Obviously I know what a combo field is, I wouldn’t be a very good ele if I didn’t, but it’s news to me that WvW players do a lot of standing on top of them to spam might on each other. Those of us who stick to PvE often don’t have reason to know stuff like this. OP wondered how to get people to go along with stuff like this and the answer is most likely to just keep telling them, because many of them probably don’t know.

Stacking for organization is reasonable. Stacking for the purpose of stacking might or other buffs defeats the purpose of evenly distributing players to separate platforms for an encounter designed for a small group.

Try explaining why and how the mechanic works in open chat. I know about it, but never knew how it worked or why it worked until this event, and a very helpful (normally WvW) commander helped me out.

A small aside: Yes, the buffs help a lot, but it is still doable without Might stacking, which I think may be responsible for some people not listening.

To be honest, I don’t see the “open world” as the main problem with the wurm. Correct me if I’m wrong, but from what I’ve seen, all the guilds who are genuinely trying to beat the worm are doing so on their “private” overflows anyway, i.e. they get into an overflow and invite only guild members. The real problem is the hard cap. That hard cap is neccesary, though. Everyone who’s been around for the first Southsun/Karka-Champion Event knows that. If you don’t have a hard cap, the game turns into a slide show.

Just stacking on a commander for a head count can be kind of hard. Between people who don’t want to stop running around aimlessly and those thinking the range is /supplyinfo is 1200…But then again, it’s not always easy in WvW too >.>

You just have to explain and repeat over and over again.

Squee Squashington.5189:

Stacking for organization is reasonable. Stacking for the purpose of stacking might or other buffs defeats the purpose of evenly distributing players to separate platforms for an encounter designed for a small group.

Pardon? The idea is to stack as a lane before you go into the portals, and then everyone goes in. Everyone still gets split up on the platforms, only now (with luck) everyone has 25 stacks of might and the champs go down that much faster. How does that defeat the purpose?

Thanks all for the replies. It does seem to that the best solution for this is simply to explain everything to those who don’t know. That was part of the reason I created this thread. The other reason is to get advice from other commanders. What tricks (if any) do ya’ll use to coordinate players and get them to listen to you? What’s the best /chat for communication? I’ve found that dropping banners/food at the very least gets my lane buzzing before the event and helps the afk problem.

PS: Much love to those in FA who choose my lanes and listen to me every time. Ya’ll know who you are and you rock.

I’m not a Commander on DB by any means, but I do have experience in getting through to players.

You’re going to have to be willing to keep repeating yourself constantly and in different ways. If you want players to read you, understand that map/squad/say chat breeze by fast. Understand the fade timer for the chat window and understand that there are going to be butt-headed players that do not want to listen.

As soon as you understand and accept that, people will start listening to you. The best chat to use, unfortunately, is Map Chat. Just stick to that unless you have to say something to your local lane. Everyone can see it, so don’t bother having to switch chats often, cut your work down some.

Also, it helps if you spam links to any guides you think will help your players on a regular basis. It’s how I did it on Dragonbrand when I wrote my initial guide to Marionette for us in the first hour of release. Anyone who’s guested over to do Mari with us knows about it, I think.

Remember, different people enjoy different things. The people you see in WvW are only but a small fraction of your server’s population usually. Marionette draws everyone’s attention, not just those you WvW with. So just understand that yes, if something isn’t part of their daily business (knowing Commander’s shortcuts) then they’re not obligated to make it their business. Marionette is where they’re finally learning about that, that’s excellent! We’re no one to judge how others decide to play a game if they enjoy it, so long as it’s not severely detrimental to other’s experiences.

A lot of patience will be required, but don’t hang on to things, remember to breathe, and you’ll be fine.

:O

I just realised, this is wvw in an actual pve setting. Trololololol. D00d, you just had the taste of what a wvw commander endures everyday, XDDD

stack stack stack, build build build, geezus don’t peek, stability necro marks veil etc etc and it’s not all the time everyone will listen.

WvWers have months, or over a years worth of experience in this. PvE players do not you gotta be patient. It takes a long time to build up that mentality of trusting who’s leading. Look at teq, he’s beaten fairly often now. BECAUSE people slowly and surely decided to listen. Best advice would keep up the repetition and try to get ppl on ts3/vent/rc/mumble. Whatever your servers VoIP service is.

Being a commander just means someone spend 100g on the manual, I could afford one if I wanted but that doesn’t mean people should listen to me.

Players who don’t do WvW, dungeons, or fractals generally don’t know about might stacking — or combo fields for that matter.

Banzie.5248:

WvWers have months, or over a years worth of experience in this. PvE players do not you gotta be patient. It takes a long time to build up that mentality of trusting who’s leading. Look at teq, he’s beaten fairly often now. BECAUSE people slowly and surely decided to listen. Best advice would keep up the repetition and try to get ppl on ts3/vent/rc/mumble. Whatever your servers VoIP service is.

Lord Kuru.3685:

Players who don’t do WvW, dungeons, or fractals generally don’t know about might stacking — or combo fields for that matter.

^ Pretty much this, a way to do it is announce before the event prepare/organize the lanes, see if all lanes have arround the same numbers and explain what boss is expected in lanes 1, 2,3…etc and how to proceed, if you do everythign right well u cant be blamed.

But imo i would listen a wvw commander and ignore a pve one(like those queensdale commanders).

Aeolus.3615:

But imo i would listen a wvw commander and ignore a pve one(like those queensdale commanders).

I understand why you feel this way. But remember that some of us, much as I love WvW, run 95% PvE and and still enjoy taking leadership roles. There are plenty of PvE commanders that I wouldn’t listen to (and a few WvW ones,) but there are some of us that are worth following

Hopefully more coordinated and challenging content like Marionette will push more PvE commanders to be more than just a rally point. B/c honestly, right now there’s not much need for us to be anything more than that.

Lord Kuru.3685:

Players who don’t do WvW, dungeons, or fractals generally don’t know about might stacking — or combo fields for that matter.

Exactly! And why would they? With the exception of the odd champion here and there, there are few things in PvE that offer the player any serious challenge.

The Marionette experience has taught a lot of players some new skills, and that can only enrich their gaming experience.

I play how i want, I never do WvsW and I have a commander tag.

However… i already leaded 17 succesfully marionette kills. I bought it specifically to lead PvE content and i’m familiar with the unknown factor of only PvE players about commanders.
1: When it takes to balance lines, don’t use /supplyinfo because people won’t stack, just count them as usual.
2: When you need to tell them about an specific champion or anything only specific to your line, don’t use squad chat. It’s encouraged to either use /say or /map channel with this start “Line 2: do X or Y”
3: We never stack might or use combos before the portals, because as much as i’d like that everyone runs to the portal in time, there’s always 15+ lazy players that never get in time.

As much as i’d like if people help in the squad chat, there ain’t no way that everyone knows how that works, and explaining in before the event might be too hard for them to understand. So… i keep it simple, i just use my tag and i make 4 more use their tags for a simple and easy reason: To tell newbies in the event that are 5 different paths to defend, without a word.

Except that, your commander tag is pretty much useless in pve except in really weird situations. You need to try to reach everyone as a normal player. Use say/map channels, teamspeak, personal whispers if someone seems afk or ask for a question and multi-tasking conversations all the time.

Shinzan.2908:

Being a commander just means someone spend 100g on the manual, I could afford one if I wanted but that doesn’t mean people should listen to me.

This is only partially true. There are people with commander tags that legitimately know what they’re doing and legitimately want to help everyone else succeed at group content. And no I am not one of them but I’ve played under the command of plenty of them. So lumping everyone with a commander tag under this false definition of someone who threw away 100g so people would listen to them does a disservice to the GW2 community.

Commanders are not needed for pve content. Leadership is needed for some content but just having a blue tag will not get you my attention- common sense and a helpful attitude will.

Pve’rs generally don’t know abt commander-specific tools; why should they? It’s a bit much of you to expect that tbh. For example- i joined a squad a couple of nights ago for the mari event. As i was in a squad (just like any other party) i expected to see all the other squad members and to have the squad chat channel in effect; the fact that neither of those things happened made the whole squad thing seem pointless so i just left.

I also think it’s condescending of you to say that most pve’rs don’t know about might-stacking and combo-fields as it’s highly dependent on the class and content they play; good luck getting any mesmer, thief or necro to might-stack…

PVE is very much up to the individual as to how they play the game, and unless they do dungeons or fractals, most pve’rs don’t wander around the map in a party unless they are farming, further reducing the need to stack might. For me, the final nail in the might-stacking coffin is that it only hits 5 people; any more than that and u either get some, all or none at all, making the whole process a gamble (read: waste of time if u get no might).

So when i’m on my guardian i hit staff #4 every time i go into the portal for marionette, not to stack might to my group but to buff ppl a little as they run past- ppl aren’t gonna hang around for might-stacking during an event with such a high chance of failure.

TLDR; in pve i don’t want to be told what to do, where to go etc. unless i’m doing an event which requires a team. It’s unrealistic to expect features used in one game mode to be understood in another which has no need of them.

It seems some people don’t even know how to rez downed players. We’re already a week in and several platforms still fail because for some reason they let downed players die without even moving to try to rez them. I don’t think they’re gonna listen to anything you tell them. Commander or not.

Ahh, the might stack trick. Works wonders for bosses in dungeons, fractals, and in WvW. Also works for Marionette, but since most of the players doing it are most likely only open world PvErs, where such tactics in general are unnecessary most of the time, you shouldn’t expect everybody to stack or do it. It’s nice for you to do that though, especially since it does help platforms with the initial burst of the boss.