Guild Wars 2

I didn’t feel anything. Why should I? At this point I’m sick of having the sylvari almost everywhere in the story. The only reason I actually fought the dragon is because I was stuck up there.

The fact that there was no reason for that summit in the first place certainly didn’t help (you discover that a new dragon awoke and instead of contacting the people that fight dragons, you contact the people that deal with politics) as it made it very predictable that an attack of that champion would happen (and as we are fighting a plant dragon, it was somewhat predictable that he would look like the champion plant dragon in the sylvari starter instance).

The only char. I “felt” something for was Tybalt… Great voice acting, great looking character, decent backstory (although these days it seems we need to be happy if a char even has a background in a timely fashion)

Great Discussion from all sides here…
From a writer’s perspective, I think the lifeless avatar was a great visual representation of the dramatic damage that was done to the Pale Tree itself. Not sure how that could have been visualized otherwise.
From a player’s perspective it reminds me of some Pen-and-Paper-RPG, when your Dungeon Master tells you something that doesn’t fit into your view of the world or even contradicts something he said before. You can either object to it OR you can trust your DM and incorporate this new detail in your view of the world. In this case:
“I wonder why these wardens tend to the avatar when they must know it’s just a representation. Maybe in all these years they got used to the avatar? Maybe they are just shocked?”
Me personally, I always try the second route when Roleplaying. If I have reason to trust the Dungeon Master, that is…

After the last two years you should’ve learned not to trust these “Dungeon Masters.”

Totally indifferent. While the story so far is off to a better start than the last LS – I’m bored by another Sylvari focus. Nothing about the sylvari is compelling and Anet is jamming them down our throats.

ShinjoNaomi.1896:

Wow…
I’ve have heard of angry nitpicking, but geez… this thread has got to take the cake…
So the Sylvari run to the Avatar of the Pale Tree…
Big flipping deal!
It gets the job done of visually showing the players that the Pale Tree is hurt after that attack.

Yeah, I agree…I mean I know she is just a vision but still the pale tree herself WAS hurt, and her avatar showed it, that is what made it so sad.

NathanH.1465:

I didn’t feel anything. Why should I? At this point I’m sick of having the sylvari almost everywhere in the story. The only reason I actually fought the dragon is because I was stuck up there.

As a Sylvari player (most my slots are) I can easily say that this rings true. If I weren’t a sylvari player I would legit feel the same way. There are many times where (even though I’m a huge sylvari fan) I think to myself, ‘man, it’s be cool to see some action that’s NOT sylvari centered’.

Blockhead Magee.3092:

Totally indifferent. While the story so far is off to a better start than the last LS – I’m bored by another Sylvari focus. Nothing about the sylvari is compelling and Anet is jamming them down our throats.

Pretty much this.. The LS is a plot framework slathered with the writer’s personal biases set in what’s left of the Guild Wars universe..

After the last two years you should’ve learned not to trust these “Dungeon Masters.”

Your sig makes a lot of good points. Yeah, it’s gonna take a major tone & character shift to get close to what made GW1 cool. But they are 100% dedicated to this bizarre fanfic. They still try to ram how “awesome” & “misunderstood” & “genius” Scarlet was. So much denial it’s just odd.

DarksunG.9537:

Your sig makes a lot of good points. Yeah, it’s gonna take a major tone & character shift to get close to what made GW1 cool. But they are 100% dedicated to this bizarre fanfic. They still try to ram how “awesome” & “misunderstood” & “genius” Scarlet was. So much denial it’s just odd.

At one time, I wanted them to explain Scarlet. To delve into her past, to get her motivations.

Now, I don’t know. Like others have pointed out, the LS2 feels like a checklist. They read the thread, they read the complaints, which is extremely nice, but it is done in a way that feels like “so on the forum they say that we should mention that. Okay, so let’s mention it out of nowhere. Now that this is done, second complaint”.

RedStar.4218:

Now, I don’t know. Like others have pointed out, the LS2 feels like a checklist. They read the thread, they read the complaints, which is extremely nice, but it is done in a way that feels like “so on the forum they say that we should mention that. Okay, so let’s mention it out of nowhere. Now that this is done, second complaint”.

I’m glad to know I’m not the only one getting that impression.

I mains Sylvari Mesmer, and I feel like this makes my feelings about the Pale Tree a little biased, but I too had chills seeing her so hurt. Wanted to throw this in as well…inb4.

Ravenhunt.2735:

I felt so sad in this moment.

I m a Roleplayer, so i know about the story, that the avatar is a physical image of the spirit of the avatar, like the most players know.

But all in one, her cry let Meme (One of my “younger” sylvari PCs) run instantly to “her”, feared and worry about “her” mum, the pale tree.
And that the dragon attack the heart of her mum.

Then Meme fight against the biiiiig shadow like a little dervish to save her so beloved mum. ;_;

And yet the paly tree lies down… the entire tree hurt in pain and faded away.
Meme is now a sad young sylvari but she will fight Mordremoth with all her powers. \o/

She fight the dragon in mind to save her “mum”, the pale tree, so she can return to the tree in the future, see the pale tree in her full beatuy as before the fight.

(x___x i hope my english is understandable >_< )

Are you here to discredit dem roleplayers? Or is it some kind of super-thick trolling?

Angel McCoy.1832:

Electro.4173:

I think she’s still just a manifestation. Her gasping and getting hurt represents the tree itself getting damaged.

This is true. The avatar is a visible representation of the Pale Tree that allows her to interact with her visitors and children. When she was injured, it was represented visibly by her avatar. In many ways, the avatar is her “face”. It’s not her entire body or being.

When sylvari run to the avatar, it’s because that’s their point of contact with the vast creature that is their Mother Tree.

Good thinking too, Electro, about the chamber being almost like the “heart” of the Pale Tree.

That doesn’t really explain why are menders are trying to do something with this so-called manifestation. I am agree with Konig – there is no reason to rush towards the avatar since Sylvari could communicate with it without the avatar and ask her what help she needs and where. IIRC, she said her roots are torn up by Mordrem. Why not head there first?
On a side note, though. Why is it it’s heart? Because of Ventari Tablet? If so, that confirms it has some magical influence on Pale Tree. That rings a bell, actually.

RedStar.4218:

At one time, I wanted them to explain Scarlet. To delve into her past, to get her motivations.

Now, I don’t know. Like others have pointed out, the LS2 feels like a checklist. They read the thread, they read the complaints, which is extremely nice, but it is done in a way that feels like “so on the forum they say that we should mention that. Okay, so let’s mention it out of nowhere. Now that this is done, second complaint”.

Explaining her “past” does nothing to make that cheesy overpowered jokester remotely viable. She’s just an exercise in wish-fulfillment. I literally laughed out loud when they tried to insinuate that Scarlet “learned” how to manipulate followers by studding Varesh. It was insulting. Varesh wasn’t a leader because they made her “sassy” & spout joke catch-phrases & insults. You don’t get followers by acting like a kitteny teenager that has melodramatic talks about how “No one can tell me what to do!”. And a Sylvari is the smartest, best crafter, planner, mage, leader, most capable mortal ever? kitten , how much more biased can they get with that race? In the words of Plinkett: “Stop trying to feed me this pig slop!”

If the Pale Tree is to have a heart, it’s got to be somewhere.

The ‘heart’ location didn’t exist when the Tablet was first scribed, so the Tablet being there seems to be because the Pale Tree chose to relocate it there. It’s not saying that the Tablet is the core of her being, more that she’s literally holding it close to her heart.

Aethelbert.1497:

Are you here to discredit dem roleplayers? Or is it some kind of super-thick trolling?

Nothing of both.
Either you are a so called rp police or you dont like how others speak out her opinion.
Maybe it sounds like trolling for you, thats sad.
You must be a very serious person in rl when you dont understand it as what it should be.

B2t:
In my post i would say that i know the sylvari story.
And that the avatar is only a image. But i felt sad as this “person” cried in pain after the attack. And my character runs as fast as she could to this “person”.
Altough the avatar is not the real tree.

Sorry that my words sound to unserious for you.

Thalador.4218:

After the last two years you should’ve learned not to trust these “Dungeon Masters.”

Then there would be no reason left to play with him/her.

Angel McCoy.1832:

Electro.4173:

I think she’s still just a manifestation. Her gasping and getting hurt represents the tree itself getting damaged.

This is true. The avatar is a visible representation of the Pale Tree that allows her to interact with her visitors and children. When she was injured, it was represented visibly by her avatar. In many ways, the avatar is her “face”. It’s not her entire body or being.

When sylvari run to the avatar, it’s because that’s their point of contact with the vast creature that is their Mother Tree.

Good thinking too, Electro, about the chamber being almost like the “heart” of the Pale Tree.

I hope you get to read this.

Personally I think the whole storytelling you have been doing is really nicely done, I really enjoy picking up pieces of a story here and there and gathering them to a large picture all the way speculating on the implications of the pieces.

The way the information is spread in visuals, sound and text is really nicely done, the games strong side is the artwork in narrative, visuals, sound and how that interacts with the actual gameplay and mechanics.

I really enjoy the art in this game, keep it up.

Omphalos means “naval” though if you take it literally but “heart” as the “centre of things” is close enough I guess.

draxynnic.3719:

If the Pale Tree is to have a heart, it’s got to be somewhere.

The ‘heart’ location didn’t exist when the Tablet was first scribed, so the Tablet being there seems to be because the Pale Tree chose to relocate it there. It’s not saying that the Tablet is the core of her being, more that she’s literally holding it close to her heart.

The whole thing holds an allusion to greek mythology, the “omphalos” is the centre of the world a mystical stone object that is the core of everything. (You also can interpret as the representation of a certain sure to be censored body part of Zeus)

The tablets represent ventari’s influence the thing at the core that made the pale tree what she is now, I like to see it as a methpor for how the legacy of good deeds has “grown”.

My feels after this episode ??

This won’t end well gg

Bazzoong.7145:

Angel McCoy.1832:

Electro.4173:

I think she’s still just a manifestation. Her gasping and getting hurt represents the tree itself getting damaged.

This is true. The avatar is a visible representation of the Pale Tree that allows her to interact with her visitors and children. When she was injured, it was represented visibly by her avatar. In many ways, the avatar is her “face”. It’s not her entire body or being.

When sylvari run to the avatar, it’s because that’s their point of contact with the vast creature that is their Mother Tree.

Good thinking too, Electro, about the chamber being almost like the “heart” of the Pale Tree.

I hope you get to read this.

Personally I think the whole storytelling you have been doing is really nicely done, I really enjoy picking up pieces of a story here and there and gathering them to a large picture all the way speculating on the implications of the pieces.

The way the information is spread in visuals, sound and text is really nicely done, the games strong side is the artwork in narrative, visuals, sound and how that interacts with the actual gameplay and mechanics.

I really enjoy the art in this game, keep it up.

Omphalos means “naval” though if you take it literally but “heart” as the “centre of things” is close enough I guess.

I’m starting to think that these praising comments are made by bribed people or something. That’s how unbelievable they sound.

Aethelbert.1497:

I’m starting to think that these praising comments are made by bribed people or something. That’s how unbelievable they sound.

Oh come on, not everyone shares the same point of view. Visually the game does look nice.

And if you don’t spend too much time on the forums, especially the lore section, you probably don’t experience the story the same way some of us does (as a checklist of our old complaints).

ShinjoNaomi.1896:

Wow…
I’ve have heard of angry nitpicking, but geez… this thread has got to take the cake…

Welcome to the story forums

Konig Des Todes.2086:

Furthermore, it’s been established that the avatar isn’t a physical thing but a mere manifestation (of ether, from what I recall). Such things should disappear, rather than fall limp, just the same as magical effects disappear if you get knocked out/killed (such as seen in Sea of Sorrows with the guardians on Balthazar’s Trident during the final naval battle).

Assuming it’s an active ability. Sure it’s something that developed over time, but that doesn’t mean it’s something that can be turned on or off. Maybe the moment it came into being it simply was.

Blockhead Magee.3092:

Totally indifferent. While the story so far is off to a better start than the last LS – I’m bored by another Sylvari focus. Nothing about the sylvari is compelling and Anet is jamming them down our throats.

I’m not getting this Sylvari overload thing though… different perspectives perhaps?

DarksunG.9537:

The assumption that any work of creativity is unbiased is… well demonstrates a deep misunderstanding of the human creative process and human thinking in general.

You see as your physical body is the only thing by which you come to know the world (pure rationalism is silly if you ask me), and since your body is an unreliable tool at best all human are inherently biased in terms of what they have or haven’t experienced and in terms of how they experienced things. Essentially all experience you have is interpreted and within a particular mental and emotional context (pure positivism is silly if you ask me). You have an existing frame of reference and knowledge through which all new experience is interpreted and meaning is drawn from. Now new experience might reinforce or go against your frame of reference (i.e. your bias) and either reinforce believes or lead to cognitive dissonance and possible self delusion or a change in your bias / frame of reference. You see as such it is humanly impossible to not have a bias. Every though, every word you speak or action you take is influenced by the internal workings of your mind, the things you know and don’t know.

What am I saying? Whoever thinks not having a bias is even possible or that having one is in some way bad, is a very silly person. The only problem occurs when one enters a state of self delusion in order to reinforce present biases when confronted with contradictory information.

Aethelbert.1497:

That doesn’t really explain why are menders are trying to do something with this so-called manifestation. I am agree with Konig – there is no reason to rush towards the avatar since Sylvari could communicate with it without the avatar and ask her what help she needs and where. IIRC, she said her roots are torn up by Mordrem. Why not head there first?

Why do people visit graves?
You see you’re thinking too factually about this, the facts don’t matter when we’re dealing with living emotional beings who ascribe value and meaning to things which might not (if one views them factually) have value. Like putting a piece of rotting meat into the ground, putting a nice headstone on it, and then routinely visiting it.
Just because the pale trees avatar is only a illusion does mean that sylvari don’t think of it as being a thing, as being their mother.

Meh I give up. Next time Canach is going to try to heal one of Anise’s illusion and everyone will find it just as logic.

Because knowing Anise, you’re more than often dealing with her illusion so Canach must have become attached to it, right ?

RedStar.4218:

Aethelbert.1497:

I’m starting to think that these praising comments are made by bribed people or something. That’s how unbelievable they sound.

Oh come on, not everyone shares the same point of view. Visually the game does look nice.

And if you don’t spend too much time on the forums, especially the lore section, you probably don’t experience the story the same way some of us does (as a checklist of our old complaints).

In terms of writing quality there is no such thing as “point of view”.

CureForLiving.5360:

Why do people visit graves?
You see you’re thinking too factually about this, the facts don’t matter when we’re dealing with living emotional beings who ascribe value and meaning to things which might not (if one views them factually) have value. Like putting a piece of rotting meat into the ground, putting a nice headstone on it, and then routinely visiting it.
Just because the pale trees avatar is only a illusion does mean that sylvari don’t think of it as being a thing, as being their mother.

Are you really asking me that question? Because I do not visit graves.
It’s not an argument anyway.

Aethelbert.1497:

In terms of writing quality there is no such thing as “point of view”.

Um…what? Writing quality is not a 100% objective assessment, it is always influenced by your point of view. If you think something is good or bad, that is your point of view and not a universal fact.

Torsailr.8456:

Aethelbert.1497:

In terms of writing quality there is no such thing as “point of view”.

Um…what? Writing quality is not a 100% objective assessment, it is always influenced by your point of view. If you think something is good or bad, that is your point of view and not a universal fact.

Nothing is an objective assessment, unless it’s a science. Nonetheless, there are bad, unmemorable writers who made little to no impact on human cultere (if not damage), as well as examples of genius, forever to be remembered. Dare I ask you why?

CureForLiving.5360:

DarksunG.9537:

Pretty much this.. The LS is a plot framework slathered with the writer’s personal biases set in what’s left of the Guild Wars universe..

What am I saying? Whoever thinks not having a bias is even possible or that having one is in some way bad, is a very silly person. The only problem occurs when one enters a state of self delusion in order to reinforce present biases when confronted with contradictory information.

Oh for crying out loud. For someone who is making passive aggressive jabs at me for not understanding “human thinking in general” you have trouble understanding implication. You then go on to say that the only case where personal bias is bad is one where “self delusion in order to reinforce present biases when confronted with contradictory information”. Which is hilarious because if there is a standard by which one can refute anther’s bias’, in this case contradictory data, that means you subscribe to a form of positivism, or at the very least are using data to determine the validity of ones bias. I understand you don’t subscribe to a form of positivism because I understand what you are getting in general, but it just shows to what extent you’re trying to drum up ways to try to label my criticism “silly”.

My point, which was implicit, was that I don’t like a Guild Wars where the story is: about Sylvari & how important & central they are, tries to do as little with Norn as possible, shows disdain for males, dislikes old lore (especially the gods) & makes pet characters JUST BECAUSE THE WRITER LIKES/DESIRES/HAS A FETISH FOR THIS STUFF. And I don’t think it’s particularly faithful or respectful to the Guild Wars 1 writing. It’s Biased & it’s obvious. Just because you like the bias doesn’t mean it isn’t there, & doesn’t mean it’s a good way to write.

As far as “self delusion in order to reinforce present biases when confronted with contradictory information” I think that explains perfectly the idea that they still try to convince us how “cool” & “intricate” Scarlet was.

DarksunG.9537:

CureForLiving.5360:

DarksunG.9537:

Pretty much this.. The LS is a plot framework slathered with the writer’s personal biases set in what’s left of the Guild Wars universe..

What am I saying? Whoever thinks not having a bias is even possible or that having one is in some way bad, is a very silly person. The only problem occurs when one enters a state of self delusion in order to reinforce present biases when confronted with contradictory information.

Oh for crying out loud. For someone who is making passive aggressive jabs at me for not understanding “human thinking in general” you have trouble understanding implication. You then go on to say that the only case where personal bias is bad is one where “self delusion in order to reinforce present biases when confronted with contradictory information”. Which is hilarious because if there is a standard by which one can refute anther’s bias’, in this case contradictory data, that means you subscribe to a form of positivism, or at the very least are using data to determine the validity of ones bias. I understand you don’t subscribe to a form of positivism because I understand what you are getting in general, but it just shows to what extent you’re trying to drum up ways to try to label my criticism “silly”.

My point, which was implicit, was that I don’t like a Guild Wars where the story is: about Sylvari & how important & central they are, tries to do as little with Norn as possible, shows disdain for males, dislikes old lore (especially the gods) & makes pet characters _JUST BECAUSE THE WRITER LIKES/DESIRES/HAS A FETISH FOR THIS STUFF. And I don’t think it’s particularly faithful or respectful to the Guild Wars 1 writing. It’s Biased & it’s obvious. Just because you like the bias doesn’t mean it isn’t there, & doesn’t mean it’s a good way to write.

As far as “self delusion in order to reinforce present biases when confronted with contradictory information” I think that explains perfectly the idea that they still try to convince us how “cool” & “intricate” Scarlet was.

at least it is not your common a hero guy went to slay bad dragon and became a king or something, the end

while i admit there IS certain bias showing in the writing, it is more refreshing than majority of other mmorpg stories that are “if you saw one you saw them all”

besides what’s wrong with sylvari? they are new race, tehy are on rise, ofc there will be a lot stuff going on about them… i am pretty sure we will have enough to do with humans norns and charr once story moves to jormag karkatorrik and co.

NathanH.1465:

I didn’t feel anything. Why should I? At this point I’m sick of having the sylvari almost everywhere in the story. The only reason I actually fought the dragon is because I was stuck up there.

The fact that there was no reason for that summit in the first place certainly didn’t help (you discover that a new dragon awoke and instead of contacting the people that fight dragons, you contact the people that deal with politics) as it made it very predictable that an attack of that champion would happen (and as we are fighting a plant dragon, it was somewhat predictable that he would look like the champion plant dragon in the sylvari starter instance).

The only char. I “felt” something for was Tybalt… Great voice acting, great looking character, decent backstory (although these days it seems we need to be happy if a char even has a background in a timely fashion)

Every war has politics…

Even in real life, right now, it’s all politics and nearly everyone trying to avoid it, regardless of someone suffering.

Cynz.9437:

at least it is not your common a hero guy went to slay bad dragon and became a king or something, the end

while i admit there IS certain bias showing in the writing, it is more refreshing than majority of other mmorpg stories that are “if you saw one you saw them all”

besides what’s wrong with sylvari? they are new race, tehy are on rise, ofc there will be a lot stuff going on about them… i am pretty sure we will have enough to do with humans norns and charr once story moves to jormag karkatorrik and co.

Everything about humans were reduced because “it wasn’t fair to have a human-centric lore”. Which totally was because they were the only race (out of the 5 we have) who was everywhere we are currently playing. Charr were restrained to a part of Ascalon and the north (which isn’t shown in GW2), Asura lived underground and weren’t mentioned before EotN, just like Norns. And …

But instead of creating lore for every race to bring them on par with human, Anet decided that nope, they’d rather have shallow lore than something really deep and connected and certainly not race-centric.

And now, for 2 years, Sylvari have always played a major impact on the world. If it wasn’t for them, the Pact wouldn’t have formed, Orr wouldn’t be cleansed, Zhaitan would still be alive. One of them was the greatest genius of all time. And that tree is obviously tied somewhere with ED.

FrostSpectre.4198:

NathanH.1465:

<snip>

Every war has politics…

Even in real life, right now, it’s all politics and nearly everyone trying to avoid it, regardless of someone suffering.

Your ‘best friends’ with a guy working in an gigantic organization solely focused on fighting dragons. So, why wouldn’t we contact him first? He works in organization dealing with our problem AND our ‘best friend’ is their leader and oh, we are (one of) their best commanders, so getting a hold of him shouldn’t be that difficult…

NathanH.1465:

FrostSpectre.4198:

NathanH.1465:

<snip>

Every war has politics…

Even in real life, right now, it’s all politics and nearly everyone trying to avoid it, regardless of someone suffering.

Your ‘best friends’ with a guy working in an gigantic organization solely focused on fighting dragons. So, why wouldn’t we contact him first? He works in organization dealing with our problem AND our ‘best friend’ is their leader and oh, we are (one of) their best commanders, so getting a hold of him shouldn’t be that difficult…

So you’d still have to attend the Summit meeting, just inform Trahearne of all recent stuff, then let him talk, while you stand on the back, listening the same discussion.

Cynz.9437:

at least it is not your common a hero guy went to slay bad dragon and became a king or something, the end

umm.. so? They could make a story about a blob that is really the universe trying to find a way to redefine physics so that spheres can be cubes. It would be the most unique story ever. It would also suck. Different =/= better. Its not all that “different” either. Its, like I said, a pretty basic fantasy story whose defining factor is bias & indiscretion resulting in a fan-fic flavor.

while i admit there IS certain bias showing in the writing, it is more refreshing than majority of other mmorpg stories that are “if you saw one you saw them all”

Its more like a little kid that likes MLP then writes a story about The Black Stallion & the horses just happen to have similar names, attitudes & elements from MLP. Of course its going to appeal to ppl who love MLP, but there are very legitimate reasons for Black Stallion fans to say its garbage. GW2 does not feel like a gw story. Its more like a fan-fic where the writer seems more interested in themselves than the gw universe. Its not refreshing, its iritating.

Cynz.9437:

besides what’s wrong with sylvari? they are new race, tehy are on rise, ofc there will be a lot stuff going on about them… i am pretty sure we will have enough to do with humans norns and charr once story moves to jormag karkatorrik and co.

I think id be more ok with them if restraint was shown in their creation. They are the best crafters, as strong as Norn, magically gifted, their mother is a Demigod & the center of the world if not universe, they can now claim the most brilliant mortal of all time while the race has no reason to be & they are the writer’s moral compass for the universe. Scarlett is the penultimate example of the writer’s lack restraint: the ultimate mortal (& this is said to be natural) she’s a master of everything, she’s comprehend the eternal alchemy without her head exploding (which they tried to back pedal with player doing similar) she’s got an attitude & dialog that is 100% contradictory to her actions just so she can be hip & cool & sassy on top of everything else. (Harley Quinn is not going to negotiate an alliance with the Syrians & Israel. But look out, Scarlett is just so awesome she can do it!) She even sodomizes lord farren & its supposed to be a funny joke. & after all the murder & sodomy, they are trying to bill her as “misunderstood”

In the light of this stuff any naivete they could made the race interesting with is meaningless. It can only be used to make ambient sylvari dialog “cute” & “charming”, another thing we keep being beat over the head with. “Witty” dialogue. I actually kinda like the Malyck story, but frick, most of the Sylvari stuff is annoying.

The Sylvari feel more like an exercise in bias & lack of restraint. Whereas the Norn (the writer’s least favorite race) are no longer the best craftsmen, no longer the strongest, are essentially dumb, have little story impact (regardless the fact that the single greatest feat 1 person has made against a dragon is to knock out a tooth, they made sure the only thing they say about it is to have two women mock the event & talk about how their grandmother was more impressive). & all this even though the 2nd most chosen race is Norn & the 2nd least chosen is Sylvari.

No I think there are plenty of very legit reasons to find fault with the Sylvari & the writing. Especially the LS.

FrostSpectre.4198:

So you’d still have to attend the Summit meeting, just inform Trahearne of all recent stuff, then let him talk, while you stand on the back, listening the same discussion.

Not really as there are 0 reasons for holding a summit.
First: to get them to attend the summit you listen to their problems (that they have since the beginning of the game), then prove you can help them (because killing an elder dragon and scarlet wasn’t enough). Next at the summit you get to hear the exact same problems again. And that’s it. After you listened to everyone’s problem (for the 2nd time), you fight some champion (followed by the bug where sylvari go heal to a hologram, you can’t heal a hologram, only the thing that generates the hologram. Because the hologram isn’t real, it’s fake…)
So the summit didn’t do anything at all and was just a big waste of time.

The pact exists to fight (and kill) dragons. Scarlet woke up mordy, and because mordy is playing with a few wp he needs to die first. The only logical step is to leave the ‘living world group’ behind and contact trahearne and rejoin our position in the pact, find out where mordy hides, what his weak spots are and then kill him.

The reason they didn’t do the ‘logical’ this is because of:

• this wouldn’t put the sylvari in the center of the universe
• anet seems to write a story around stuff that sounds cool, while it would be better is they wrote a story and put cool stuff in there

This is the last post I’ll make about it in this thread, as it’s starting to get off-topic

To all those that are wondering why the sylvari rushed to the Avatar after it got hurt, have you considered that perhaps the sylvari can diagnose what is wrong with the entirety of the Pale Tree just by examining the Avatar?

If you go to a doctor with, say, a stomach ache, do you expect the doctor to cut you open to see what is causing the problem? Obviously not! He would diagnose you externally first to see what the root cause of the problem might be before he decides to cut you open.

I believe this to be the same case here.

Vesuvius.9874:

To all those that are wondering why the sylvari rushed to the Avatar after it got hurt, have you considered that perhaps the sylvari can diagnose what is wrong with the entirety of the Pale Tree just by examining the Avatar?

If you go to a doctor with, say, a stomach ache, do you expect the doctor to cut you open to see what is causing the problem? Obviously not! He would diagnose you externally first to see what the root cause of the problem might be before he decides to cut you open.

I believe this to be the same case here.

Because it’s pretty obvious that the leaves and branches were hit by the attack ?

Aethelbert.1497:

Torsailr.8456:

Aethelbert.1497:

In terms of writing quality there is no such thing as “point of view”.

Um…what? Writing quality is not a 100% objective assessment, it is always influenced by your point of view. If you think something is good or bad, that is your point of view and not a universal fact.

Nothing is an objective assessment, unless it’s a science. Nonetheless, there are bad, unmemorable writers who made little to no impact on human cultere (if not damage), as well as examples of genius, forever to be remembered. Dare I ask you why?

I’ve read some masterpieces of literature in college, and I thought them to be dreadfully boring and horribly written. And yet there are people who love non-masterpieces that are horribly written (case in point: Twilight).

Whether one likes or dislikes a story, writing style, narrative, etc. is fully subjective. It’s a preference. Masterpieces of literature are merely pieces of literature which has had a majority of liking over disliking in a long enough time period that they survived the annals of time.

This being said, I find the problems with Guild Wars 2 currently being three-fold:

1. Writing.
2. Scheduling.
3. Economy.

This is ignoring the issues of things like unfixed exploits and design flaws (stacking, running past mobs in dungeons, zerker being exponentially overpowering), of course. The artistry – with some rare exception (Dry Top loading screen) are superb. The animations are fantastic. The music is glorious. The voice acting is… hit or miss, really, and the miss times tend to be an issue of writing.

I just cannot agree with the “biweekly releases for two/three months then break for two months” schedule we’ve been seeing. I’d rather have expansions that wouldn’t have middle-of-the-storyline breaks. I cannot agree with the continuous cases of “in hindsight, we could have worded that better” that I’m constantly seeing with the writing and the “apparent but not actually” contradictory lore that we’ve been seeing since Scarlet Briar’s reveal. And I certainly am finding it hard to agree with the apparent cases of ArenaNet’s management desiring “fast bucks over a long-lasting game” (the opinion I’ve formed from seeing many things in Anet’s economical decisions).

ArenaNet has made some great improvements with Season 2, but the writing is not one of them. The only improvement the writing has gotten, is open world dialogue and delivery.

RedStar.4218:

Vesuvius.9874:

To all those that are wondering why the sylvari rushed to the Avatar after it got hurt, have you considered that perhaps the sylvari can diagnose what is wrong with the entirety of the Pale Tree just by examining the Avatar?

If you go to a doctor with, say, a stomach ache, do you expect the doctor to cut you open to see what is causing the problem? Obviously not! He would diagnose you externally first to see what the root cause of the problem might be before he decides to cut you open.

I believe this to be the same case here.

Because it’s pretty obvious that the leaves and branches were hit by the attack ?

Speaking with Avatar of the Tree
Come closer…yes. Yes, I can sense you clearly now. I am…weakened.
Are you okay? What happened to you?
I…I can’t take much more. The assault was…fierce. These Mordrem tore at my roots and battered my branches.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/The_World_Summit

Konig Des Todes.2086:

Aethelbert.1497:

Torsailr.8456:

Aethelbert.1497:

In terms of writing quality there is no such thing as “point of view”.

Um…what? Writing quality is not a 100% objective assessment, it is always influenced by your point of view. If you think something is good or bad, that is your point of view and not a universal fact.

Nothing is an objective assessment, unless it’s a science. Nonetheless, there are bad, unmemorable writers who made little to no impact on human cultere (if not damage), as well as examples of genius, forever to be remembered. Dare I ask you why?

I’ve read some masterpieces of literature in college, and I thought them to be dreadfully boring and horribly written. And yet there are people who love non-masterpieces that are horribly written (case in point: Twilight).

Whether one likes or dislikes a story, writing style, narrative, etc. is fully subjective. It’s a preference. Masterpieces of literature are merely pieces of literature which has had a majority of liking over disliking in a long enough time period that they survived the annals of time.

This being said, I find the problems with Guild Wars 2 currently being three-fold:

1. Writing.
2. Scheduling.
3. Economy.

This is ignoring the issues of things like unfixed exploits and design flaws (stacking, running past mobs in dungeons, zerker being exponentially overpowering), of course. The artistry – with some rare exception (Dry Top loading screen) are superb. The animations are fantastic. The music is glorious. The voice acting is… hit or miss, really, and the miss times tend to be an issue of writing.

I just cannot agree with the “biweekly releases for two/three months then break for two months” schedule we’ve been seeing. I’d rather have expansions that wouldn’t have middle-of-the-storyline breaks. I cannot agree with the continuous cases of “in hindsight, we could have worded that better” that I’m constantly seeing with the writing and the “apparent but not actually” contradictory lore that we’ve been seeing since Scarlet Briar’s reveal. And I certainly am finding it hard to agree with the apparent cases of ArenaNet’s management desiring “fast bucks over a long-lasting game” (the opinion I’ve formed from seeing many things in Anet’s economical decisions).

ArenaNet has made some great improvements with Season 2, but the writing is not one of them. The only improvement the writing has gotten, is open world dialogue and delivery.

Wait. Preferances aside, masterpieces of literature aren’t praised for their narrative, nor are they liked by the majority. They majority haven’t read these masterpieces.
It is much more complicated than one short sentence.

Other than that, agree with you.

Vesuvius.9874:

Speaking with Avatar of the Tree
Come closer…yes. Yes, I can sense you clearly now. I am…weakened.
Are you okay? What happened to you?
I…I can’t take much more. The assault was…fierce. These Mordrem tore at my roots and battered my branches.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/The_World_Summit

Yes the avatar tells it to you too, because you’re trapped in a chamber and you see it on the ground. Of course you are going to wonder what’s wrong with her.

But for everyone else, especially Sylvari responsible for tending to the Pale Tree, if they can’t see the damages to roots and branches, they are terrible, terrible gardeners.

Blockhead Magee.3092:

Totally indifferent. While the story so far is off to a better start than the last LS – I’m bored by another Sylvari focus. Nothing about the sylvari is compelling and Anet is jamming them down our throats.

If you look at it this way. They are a young race. They appeared for a reason. We also know there is more than just the one community. So if they were meant to be dragon minions. How else are you going to develops that except by showing the back story a little at a time.

Countess Aire.9410:

If you look at it this way. They are a young race. They appeared for a reason. We also know there is more than just the one community. So if they were meant to be dragon minions. How else are you going to develops that except by showing the back story a little at a time.

The gods especially brought the humans to Tyria. And they are, well, the gods. (Of course, then retcons came and I stopped following what got reduced and retconned).

Asuras, lived underground for who knows how long and no human and charr ever saw them. We barely know anything about them.

They could develop on all races, but instead, they told us “nope, we want broad shallow lore” and now they are forcing us to eat Sylvari with everything.

RedStar.4218:

Countess Aire.9410:

If you look at it this way. They are a young race. They appeared for a reason. We also know there is more than just the one community. So if they were meant to be dragon minions. How else are you going to develops that except by showing the back story a little at a time.

The gods especially brought the humans to Tyria. And they are, well, the gods. (Of course, then retcons came and I stopped following what got reduced and retconned).

Asuras, lived underground for who knows how long and no human and charr ever saw them. We barely know anything about them.

They could develop on all races, but instead, they told us “nope, we want broad shallow lore” and now they are forcing us to eat Sylvari with everything.

Luckily for you, they aren’t forcing us to eat anything… nobody is here holding a gun to your head saying ‘PLAY THIS OR DIE!’ which is about as logical as you are sounding with your angry, broken record rhetoric…

Also humans had the spotlight for a very long time already. An entire game and it’s expansions, worth, no less. It was called Guild Wars 1. The char played a predominate role in that as well. And norn and asura at least got to be seen… Hell, the dwarves got more screen time in Guild Wars 1 then the sylvari did… Because you know… the sylvari didn’t exist yet.

There have been numerous threads in these forums explaining how the story in GW2 has not been so god-awful as some people like to scream here over and over again ad nauseam. But I suppose some people just aren’t happy unless they are whining and crying about something…
I guess it’s just easier to jump on the ‘Trahearne stole my thunder’ and ‘the Sylvari are over-represented’ bandwagons and cling to such falsehoods and overblown hyperbole, all the while claiming that the writers are incompetent…

I have never been part of the Trahearne hate club, or even the Kormir one.

It’s simply that right after we gold told “kitten humans and the lore you liked, everyone is going to be equal”, they decided “well everyone except Sylvari. They are going to take everything and we’ll leave Charr as big fluffy wuvvy cats and Norns as drunken idiots”.

I kept expecting the Pale Tree saying “Finally you have fallen in our trap! Praise Mordremoth! PRAISE OUR FATHER” suddenly the dragon approaches as every Sylvari becomes soundless

…

But it was alright. I’m just not sure if the GW2 writers have a backbone to pull something like that. Or if it’s allowed by the story standards…

Because that wouldn’t be a good plot point, and would make no sense from what we’ve seen in the personal story.

Now now, it was an emotional time, clearly some people were panicking.

Lol well I thought it would be fun if the Pale Tree went evilz. Or something of that nature.

@Shinjo: The problem is that there are times where the developers seem if anything to be going out of their way to downplay humanity. They haven’t just shifted the focus everywhere, they’ve been deliberately ignoring or actively taking away many of the things that made humanity special.

There’s also the very valid point that the norn have also been sidelined, and there they don’t have the fig leaf of GW1 being focused on them. In the broader picture, it feels as if spirituality in general is being sidelined – unless you count the dragons, it really has been feeling as if the Pale Tree is the only higher being of significance since the original Personal Story, and neither the gods nor the spirits got more than token play in that either outside of the early norn stuff.

Now, I’m agnostic in real life, but I do like a bit of that sort of thing in my fantasy, especially since norn and humans both have some interesting mythology that largely seems to have been swept under the rug. Now, don’t get me wrong, I’m interested in sylvari stuff as well – but I can certainly see why people are getting upset that the Pale Tree seems to have taken over the role the gods did in GW1, and in a much more direct fashion.

RedStar.4218:

Vesuvius.9874:

Speaking with Avatar of the Tree
Come closer…yes. Yes, I can sense you clearly now. I am…weakened.
Are you okay? What happened to you?
I…I can’t take much more. The assault was…fierce. These Mordrem tore at my roots and battered my branches.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/The_World_Summit

Yes the avatar tells it to you too, because you’re trapped in a chamber and you see it on the ground. Of course you are going to wonder what’s wrong with her.

But for everyone else, especially Sylvari responsible for tending to the Pale Tree, if they can’t see the damages to roots and branches, they are terrible, terrible gardeners.

There were probably Sylvari trying to fix the roots, but we woumdn’t see that, because we weren’t at the roots.

Feels? For a tree? Considering the way the Sylvari killed the old GW lore and stole the spotlight from everybody else, I’m really disappointed she didn’t die in a fire – and all of her uptight holier-than-thou “children” along with her.