[Spoilers: Maximum] Thank God...
I don’t know about you, he was better at keeping my party up when I H/H’d it than Tahlkora or Dunkoro.
Though, turning to stone did change the temperment of just about every other dwarf so maybe that’s to blame.
The problem is, I do want to see abaddon return. Maybe not as an enemy but either visions of the past, lore, why he did what he did. I want to know.
I don’t know about you, he was better at keeping my party up when I H/H’d it than Tahlkora or Dunkoro.
Though, turning to stone did change the temperment of just about every other dwarf so maybe that’s to blame.
Really? Dunkoro and Tahlkora were waaaay more effective at keeping myself and my party alive. Ogden was best set up with Smiting Prayers.
I am convinced the heros all had differences in their AI. Dunkoro seemed to use healing prayers skills when you could actually receive the full amount, so he wasn’t running out of energy. Ogden just spammed them whenever, so he was out of energy when you actually needed heals.
I don’t know about you, he was better at keeping my party up when I H/H’d it than Tahlkora or Dunkoro.
Though, turning to stone did change the temperment of just about every other dwarf so maybe that’s to blame.
Really? Dunkoro and Tahlkora were waaaay more effective at keeping myself and my party alive. Ogden was best set up with Smiting Prayers.
I am convinced the heros all had differences in their AI. Dunkoro seemed to use healing prayers skills when you could actually receive the full amount, so he wasn’t running out of energy. Ogden just spammed them whenever, so he was out of energy when you actually needed heals.
My Ogden was also very good at smiting. Ok at prot, and deplorable when it came to healing. Dunkie was my healer, Tahl was my prot.
For my husband though, Dunkie was less than useless. Tahl ran heals like a god, and Ogden was his prot.
Not exactly sure what influences the differences.
Well, I DO want to see more Abaddon lore, especially a motivation for WHY magic meant so much to him.
I mean, it meant SO much to him that he was prepared to go to war over it. They don’t need to physically bring him back to give him a motivation.
It seems this is just your personal dislike of Abaddon, and I’m glad you’re a minority in this.
Everyone should dance in front of the Abaddon statue, see what happens.
You got served!
Not exactly sure what influences the differences.
Skill selection.
Which, with that said, still calls for Ogden being useless. Monks were meh, even when it was just H/H most players I knew would bring monk henchmen and DPS heroes (with the occasional ST rit).
The problem is, I do want to see abaddon return. Maybe not as an enemy but either visions of the past, lore, why he did what he did. I want to know.
It would hardly be a return if we just uncover information about him. I wouldn’t mind learning more about all of the gods, the dragons or even the older races. At this point though I view any reference to Abaddon should be considered with care because he had his run of the mill – it would be as disgusting as referencing back to Scarlet. They had their place, and that place is in the past. There are still secrets to be learned but we’ll learn those secrets about people/things that are very, very, very, very dead.
I mean, it meant SO much to him that he was prepared to go to war over it. They don’t need to physically bring him back to give him a motivation.
Probably for the same absurd reason he wanted to plunge the world into a never-ending nightmare during Nightfall. It sure as kitten wasn’t some batkitten crazy plan to allow humans a device of power, likely he just wanted to put the world 6 feet under and was well informed by the original residents of Tyria that the Elder Dragons would see all of this uncorrupted magic as a six course meal.
I don’t think he ever really needs a “reason” for wanting to destroy Tyria and we can assume that his motivation hinges on the destruction since he tried it.
Hell, it could have nothing to do with the Elder Dragons and he just wanted the wars to keep going on. It’s clear as daylight that he was trying to destroy the world (remember Nightfallen Jahai, for example?), no theoretical applications need to involve themselves with giving him a motive – it’s like what Alfred says in The Dark Knight: Some people just want to watch the world burn.
(edited by Cuddy.6247)
It would hardly be a return if we just uncover information about him. I wouldn’t mind learning more about all of the gods, the dragons or even the older races. At this point though I view any reference to Abaddon should be considered with care because he had his run of the mill – it would be as disgusting as referencing back to Scarlet. They had their place, and that place is in the past. There are still secrets to be learned but we’ll learn those secrets about people/things that are very, very, very, very dead.
I mean, that’s really it. I disliked Abaddon as a character for pretty much the exact same reason everyone hated Scarlet… Nightfall basically devolved into, “Because Abaddon.”
It confounds me that one is lauded by the GW1 veterans while the other is despised. They were both terrible, but one has the benefit of nostalgia and rose-colored glasses, I guess.
It would hardly be a return if we just uncover information about him. I wouldn’t mind learning more about all of the gods, the dragons or even the older races. At this point though I view any reference to Abaddon should be considered with care because he had his run of the mill – it would be as disgusting as referencing back to Scarlet. They had their place, and that place is in the past. There are still secrets to be learned but we’ll learn those secrets about people/things that are very, very, very, very dead.
I mean, that’s really it. I disliked Abaddon as a character for pretty much the exact same reason everyone hated Scarlet… Nightfall basically devolved into, “Because Abaddon.”
It confounds me that one is lauded by the GW1 veterans while the other is despised. They were both terrible, but one has the benefit of nostalgia and rose-colored glasses, I guess.
Definitely. Abaddon was one of the worst written story villains in GW1 and yet so many people seem to think he was something to be revered. He didn’t hold a candle to White Mantle, Palawa Joko or the Ministry of Purity though – all of which were written so intensely well. Abaddon was just…a staple, a necessary one that I enjoyed – but that’s it. He was batkitten crazy and wanted to destroy the world, you don’t need to dissect that kind of absurdity and find motivation – there likely isn’t any.
A lot of GW1 vets though look their rose-tinted glasses and see the game improperly. There were definitely some better qualities that GW1 had but vets usually (but not always) end up being full of kitten in regards to how breathtaking a certain story arc/feature/mechanic in GW1 was.
(edited by Cuddy.6247)
Not exactly sure what influences the differences.
Skill selection.
Which, with that said, still calls for Ogden being useless. Monks were meh, even when it was just H/H most players I knew would bring monk henchmen and DPS heroes (with the occasional ST rit).
ROFL
Not what I meant Cuddy. I’m really not that stupid that I don’t understand skill selection. What I was getting at was just the simple differences between some heroes seemingly being AI programmed for certain tendencies. Like I said, my Dunk was a great healer, but he couldn’t run even a simple prot build let alone a smite build if I needed him to. While Tahl couldn’t heal worth a kitten , no matter what heal build I used on her. I could take the exact build Dunk used wonderfully, and no matter how I tweaked it, Tahl just couldn’t do it to save her own life (let along the rest of the party!) and vice versa. Sometimes it was really mind boggling. I even went so far as to make sure they were builds I ran (and often) on my own character and even tried teaching her through manually using the skills on them (both were supposed to help ‘teach’ hero ai once upon a time). No dice.
Beyond that though, my hero monks were awesome. My guildies almost always wanted me to bring mine, as opposed to theirs, if I wasn’t monking personally to begin with. My melee heroes on the other hand….yeah, they didn’t see much play. Haha
(edited by LanfearShadowflame.3189)
My melee heroes on the other hand….yeah, they didn’t see much play. Haha
Generally all monk heroes ran the same for me vis-à-vis they were all bad. As far as melee, they sucked too. The only heroes that were ever polished were Norgu, Razah and, regretfully, Gwen.
edit: Norgu – not Goren, Goren was the useless ape with a hammer.
(edited by Cuddy.6247)
My melee heroes on the other hand….yeah, they didn’t see much play. Haha
Generally all monk heroes ran the same for me vis-à-vis they were all bad. As far as melee, they sucked too. The only heroes that were ever polished were Norgu, Razah and, regretfully, Gwen.
edit: Norgu – not Goren, Goren was the useless ape with a hammer.
Interesting. Where you a mesmer main by chance? Or Rit?
My melee heroes on the other hand….yeah, they didn’t see much play. Haha
Generally all monk heroes ran the same for me vis-à-vis they were all bad. As far as melee, they sucked too. The only heroes that were ever polished were Norgu, Razah and, regretfully, Gwen.
edit: Norgu – not Goren, Goren was the useless ape with a hammer.
Interesting. Where you a mesmer main by chance? Or Rit?
Mesmer all day, erryday. I had an assassin too that ran with rits because rits were OP if you used them right.
I actually liked Abaddon, and hope we see more of him. Whether in the present, or in the past through a fractal.
I actually worked well with heroes. Sure, in the beginning they were quite awful to work with. But by the time Eotn came out, all these awesome hero builds came out. Don’t know all the names, but I remember one for triple necros being sabway (one of the first). And Ogden had his moments to shine when the meta for heroes was 1 RoJ/prot and 2 RoJ/heal heroes. I personally think it’s just a matter of how much you like or dislike a heroes’ personality. You blame the heroes you don’t liek for everything that goes wrong. I for one hated Dunkoro, but loved the other 2
Cuddy, he tried to destroy the world because the Gods, his “friends”, tortured him for 1000 years straight, for doing what he though was right.
Humans are driven insane by mere months of torture… try to image ONE THOUSAND years of torture. The Abaddon we fought was but a shadow of his former self. Also, he’s the God of knowledge. I think he had a pretty good idea of why giving the races powerful magic was a good idea.
He based his decisions on logic. The other gods on emotion (listening to Doric).
It’s pretty clear you have some kind of personal vendetta against this character.
(edited by Mental Paradox.3845)
What irked me about Ogden is that he seems to be an enormously old man with very little to pass the time and yet he’s acting impatient. I would think he’d want to draw things out to give himself something to do.
It’s a minor quibble though.
Ogden was my Healing monk hero back in GW1. Never had any issues with him. Tahlkora was my Prot monk and Dunkoro my Smiting monk.
The trick is that the Heroes prioritise using skills on their skill bar in order from left to right (if both skills are suitable for the same situation). Therefore, you want to put skills you want them to use more often on the left. Ogden’s skill bar looked like this:
Word of Healing – Dwayna’s Kiss – Healing Touch – Signet of Rejuvenation – Vigorous Spirit – Dismiss Condition – Cure Hex – Resurrection Chant
This meant that in any given situation where a big heal was needed, Ogden would always use Word of Healing first, then Dwayna’s Kiss. (Since he can’t use Kiss on himself, if WoH was on cooldown, then he would use Healing Touch.) Surprisingly, he seemed to know to use SoR first if the damage was minor, and would maintain Vigorous Spirit on allies if no big healing was needed.
Definitely. Abaddon was one of the worst written story villains in GW1 and yet so many people seem to think he was something to be revered. He didn’t hold a candle to White Mantle, Palawa Joko or the Ministry of Purity though – all of which were written so intensely well. Abaddon was just…a staple, a necessary one that I enjoyed – but that’s it. He was batkitten crazy and wanted to destroy the world, you don’t need to dissect that kind of absurdity and find motivation – there likely isn’t any.
A lot of GW1 vets though look their rose-tinted glasses and see the game improperly. There were definitely some better qualities that GW1 had but vets usually (but not always) end up being full of kitten in regards to how breathtaking a certain story arc/feature/mechanic in GW1 was.
Simply put, it’s that Abaddon didn’t have that Mary Sue feeling that Scarlet often did.
Scarlet, especially when initially presented, came of very much as a classic Villain Sue. We had a sassy, female character who basically never suffered any significant setbacks until right at the end, was able to form alliances offscreen that left many people flabbergasted were even possible while showing no signs of having a mind that could carry out that sort of diplomacy while on-screen. We had someone who rose from humble beginnings to become apparently the smartest mortal who ever lived, able to out-tech the charr, out-magic the asura, out-poison the hylek, and basically simultaneously beat every race at their own specialities as a single individual. At times, it even felt as if all the pre-Scarlet lore was being rewritten in order to make Scarlet more awesome.
Abaddon… as you’re kinda observing yourself, wasn’t really a character at all, but a force that was affecting the world. Nightfall was really more about Varesh than Abaddon up until the Realm of Torment opened – if we’d been a bit faster taking her down, than we may have wiped our hands and considered the threat eliminated just as we did with Shiro and Khilbron. Even once we did enter the Realm of Torment, the stories there were often more about Shiro, Khilbron, the Charr, and others than Abaddon apart from the very final mission. You could have replaced Abaddon with a corrupted Bloodstone being used as an energy source by Mallyx, and Nightfall probably would have played out in much the same way up until the aftermath.
The other distinction is that Abaddon worked with the existing lore. Admittedly, it did involve saying that some things we’d been told before were wrong, but also gave us a very good reason why events had been misrepresented before. Scarlet… essentially felt like a lot of the existing lore was being put aside or even outright overwritten in order to make it all about Scarlet.
Mind you, all that said, I’d be inclined to roll my eyes if Abaddon was to suddenly come back too, unless it was handled very, very carefully. I do want to see them actualise the fractal, though.
People don’t hate Scarlet like Game of Thrones fans hate Joffrey.
They hate her the way Star Wars fans hate Jar Jar Binks.
My melee heroes on the other hand….yeah, they didn’t see much play. Haha
Generally all monk heroes ran the same for me vis-à-vis they were all bad. As far as melee, they sucked too. The only heroes that were ever polished were Norgu, Razah and, regretfully, Gwen.
edit: Norgu – not Goren, Goren was the useless ape with a hammer.
Interesting. Where you a mesmer main by chance? Or Rit?
Mesmer all day, erryday. I had an assassin too that ran with rits because rits were OP if you used them right.
That might be part of the reason. Wasn’t it mentioned that if you played the class, the hero ai would learn from how you played it? I played Ele, Mes, Monk, Necro, and Rit and those heros were freaking awesome for me. The rest (while I had the classes, but didn’t play them anywhere near as much or as often) were absolutely awful for me.
Really hard to say aye or nay though, since I can’t get my hands on the code to actually see what they put into it.
My melee heroes on the other hand….yeah, they didn’t see much play. Haha
Generally all monk heroes ran the same for me vis-à-vis they were all bad. As far as melee, they sucked too. The only heroes that were ever polished were Norgu, Razah and, regretfully, Gwen.
edit: Norgu – not Goren, Goren was the useless ape with a hammer.
Interesting. Where you a mesmer main by chance? Or Rit?
Mesmer all day, erryday. I had an assassin too that ran with rits because rits were OP if you used them right.
Wasn’t it mentioned that if you played the class, the hero ai would learn from how you played it?
I’m sure it was mentioned. I’m also sure it was probably disingenuous.
Simply put, it’s that Abaddon didn’t have that Mary Sue feeling that Scarlet often did.
Yeah, Abaddon just had the big bad going for him, which is so much better (sarcasm). Also, Scarlet’s Mary Sue qualities can easily be further stapled into mysteries of Mordremoth’s corruption and the nature of the Sylvari Race/Pale Tree – there is hardly anything lore breaking. You can envision her as being a rough equivalent of the Mouth of Zhaitan. Honestly, it’s not rocket science. Shlock fantasy and science-fiction stories like this are taken as face value and shouldn’t be read into. Can you imagine if people actually tried applying wave-particle duality or, even worse, the geometric decay of isotopes to a game like BioShock Infinite to dissect the story? It would be an absolute headkitten. It’s fantasy.
Cuddy, he tried to destroy the world because the Gods, his “friends”, tortured him for 1000 years straight, for doing what he though was right.
His “friends” that he tried going to war with. If he’s that self-centered and vindictive I think we can waive any heel realization tropes. Again, they should just tread lightly. He’s gone and dead – any further mention should be informational, at best, at light doses.
It would hardly be a return if we just uncover information about him. I wouldn’t mind learning more about all of the gods, the dragons or even the older races. At this point though I view any reference to Abaddon should be considered with care because he had his run of the mill – it would be as disgusting as referencing back to Scarlet. They had their place, and that place is in the past. There are still secrets to be learned but we’ll learn those secrets about people/things that are very, very, very, very dead.
I mean, that’s really it. I disliked Abaddon as a character for pretty much the exact same reason everyone hated Scarlet… Nightfall basically devolved into, “Because Abaddon.”
It confounds me that one is lauded by the GW1 veterans while the other is despised. They were both terrible, but one has the benefit of nostalgia and rose-colored glasses, I guess.
Definitely. Abaddon was one of the worst written story villains in GW1 and yet so many people seem to think he was something to be revered. He didn’t hold a candle to White Mantle, Palawa Joko or the Ministry of Purity though – all of which were written so intensely well. Abaddon was just…a staple, a necessary one that I enjoyed – but that’s it. He was batkitten crazy and wanted to destroy the world, you don’t need to dissect that kind of absurdity and find motivation – there likely isn’t any.
A lot of GW1 vets though look their rose-tinted glasses and see the game improperly. There were definitely some better qualities that GW1 had but vets usually (but not always) end up being full of kitten in regards to how breathtaking a certain story arc/feature/mechanic in GW1 was.
I find this insulting. As a GW1 vet who took active part in lore conversations on GW Guru and various fansites at the time as Arena Net did not have their own commercial forums (Yes I am that old), who has been with Arena Net since GW1 even looked like Dark Age of Camelot, I did not see any level of complexity in Abaddon neither can I name a single GW1 Vet who thought Abaddon was anything other than some indiscriminate nuclear arms dealer.
Cuddy, he tried to destroy the world because the Gods, his “friends”, tortured him for 1000 years straight, for doing what he though was right.
Humans are driven insane by mere months of torture… try to image ONE THOUSAND years of torture. The Abaddon we fought was but a shadow of his former self. Also, he’s the God of knowledge. I think he had a pretty good idea of why giving the races powerful magic was a good idea.
He based his decisions on logic. The other gods on emotion (listening to Doric).
It’s pretty clear you have some kind of personal vendetta against this character.
Wait what, how is giving magic out to everyone indiscriminately in large portions regardless of their motivations logical. Everyone was going to kill each other during the three Guild Wars, A LOT OF PEOPLE DIED.
I should remind you that when they tried to take magic away, Abaddon went to war with them, He didn’t try to reason with them, ABADDON DECLARED WAR.
I’m sure it was mentioned. I’m also sure it was probably disingenuous.
Possible. Though from my personal observations, it seems to be true at least to some extent. Or some people are just really lucky with some heroes
It would hardly be a return if we just uncover information about him. I wouldn’t mind learning more about all of the gods, the dragons or even the older races. At this point though I view any reference to Abaddon should be considered with care because he had his run of the mill – it would be as disgusting as referencing back to Scarlet. They had their place, and that place is in the past. There are still secrets to be learned but we’ll learn those secrets about people/things that are very, very, very, very dead.
I mean, that’s really it. I disliked Abaddon as a character for pretty much the exact same reason everyone hated Scarlet… Nightfall basically devolved into, “Because Abaddon.”
It confounds me that one is lauded by the GW1 veterans while the other is despised. They were both terrible, but one has the benefit of nostalgia and rose-colored glasses, I guess.
Definitely. Abaddon was one of the worst written story villains in GW1 and yet so many people seem to think he was something to be revered. He didn’t hold a candle to White Mantle, Palawa Joko or the Ministry of Purity though – all of which were written so intensely well. Abaddon was just…a staple, a necessary one that I enjoyed – but that’s it. He was batkitten crazy and wanted to destroy the world, you don’t need to dissect that kind of absurdity and find motivation – there likely isn’t any.
A lot of GW1 vets though look their rose-tinted glasses and see the game improperly. There were definitely some better qualities that GW1 had but vets usually (but not always) end up being full of kitten in regards to how breathtaking a certain story arc/feature/mechanic in GW1 was.
I find this insulting. As a GW1 vet who took active part in lore conversations on GW Guru and various fansites at the time as Arena Net did not have their own commercial forums (Yes I am that old), who has been with Arena Net since GW1 even looked like Dark Age of Camelot, I did not see any level of complexity in Abaddon neither can I name a single GW1 Vet who thought Abaddon was anything other than some indiscriminate nuclear arms dealer.
Cuddy, he tried to destroy the world because the Gods, his “friends”, tortured him for 1000 years straight, for doing what he though was right.
Humans are driven insane by mere months of torture… try to image ONE THOUSAND years of torture. The Abaddon we fought was but a shadow of his former self. Also, he’s the God of knowledge. I think he had a pretty good idea of why giving the races powerful magic was a good idea.
He based his decisions on logic. The other gods on emotion (listening to Doric).
It’s pretty clear you have some kind of personal vendetta against this character.
Wait what, how is giving magic out to everyone indiscriminately in large portions regardless of their motivations logical. Everyone was going to kill each other during the three Guild Wars, A LOT OF PEOPLE DIED.
I should remind you that when they tried to take magic away, Abaddon went to war with them, He didn’t try to reason with them, ABADDON DECLARED WAR.
I am relieved that some people actually hold this view with me. I disdained Abaddon. He was a good villain, you always need a big bad (in the case of GW2 the big bads are the dragons) – adding elements of story to every villain gets absurdly boring. I mean even in Resident Evil they had to make Wesker a god among men just to keep his place in the story paramount.
That’s not to say I don’t like him, but I’m glad the actual focus was Glint and the Master of Peace. It’s much more rewarding to the narrative. He had his place, there’s so much more to explore and digest. The joyful squeals theorizing Abaddon over that screenshot were heartbreaking. Hell, woodenpotatoes video about the possibility of Abaddon’s inclusion was heartbreaking.
I’m sure it was mentioned. I’m also sure it was probably disingenuous.
Possible. Though from my personal observations, it seems to be true at least to some extent. Or some people are just really lucky with some heroes
I never used a necromancer and my BiP hero is a staple to my current metablowout of x5 Surgeway…and he does extraordinarily well. Not that necromancers take a lot of talent to use (aside from their offensive skills having devolved considerably with the rise of every other caster in the game). I never cared for monks, though. After some of the buff to ritualist skills, ST and N/Rt were always better than monks and I’m surprised monks retained much relevance post-Nightfall.
(edited by Cuddy.6247)
I’m sure it was mentioned. I’m also sure it was probably disingenuous.
Possible. Though from my personal observations, it seems to be true at least to some extent. Or some people are just really lucky with some heroes
AI is AI, not different for different people, it is what it is. The different personalities for heroes thing is not factual, they are all the same. Let’s get the programmer on a lie detector test. :P
Blah such grumpy gusses. We’ll jus attribute it to just pure dumb luck with AI then.
Blah such grumpy gusses. We’ll jus attribute it to just pure dumb luck with AI then.
Not grumpy, just messing around. Hence the :P