Guild Wars 2

At the very end of the episode, after the cinematic and your team starts planning their next move, Kasmeer expresses doubt that you would be able to talk directly to the Pale Tree.

Even if you AREN’T sylvari, your character will have already had a direct audience with the Pale Tree. Hell, that audience was expressly about an Elder Dragon. The Pale Tree knows you. She would know why you were calling.

Hell, the question should be, “Why WOULDN’T the Pale Tree talk to you?”

And instead of that assurance, your character kinda shrugs and effectively says that you’ll think of something, like you had never met before and otherwise wouldn’t have any business in The Grove at all.

I suppose it doesn’t necessarily mess up the story (yet), but it is an oddity to me.

I find that weird too. I mean we are the Pact Commander, we helped her 2 First-borns to complete their Wyld Hunts. Hell if you are Sylvari , you are basicly her child. The whole ‘’ How can you get an audience ? ’’ stuff is just too redundant… unless everyone hakitten esia over the last year and forgot we are the reason they are still breathing. Buut as it happens, Npcs tend to act like that.

Hopefully Pale Tree and her mentioning of us will be accurate.

I went to check on my mother “the Pale Tree” immediately following the LS episode, but she’s not letting on that she knows anymore than what’s happened in the past, re Scarlet. I imagine that the next episode will reveal more of what she knows.

My guess is that its possible that Kasmeer and the others aren’t fully aware the PC is the Commander of the Pact. That said, the Pale Tree may also simply be withdrawn at the moment. One of her children committed acts of unspeakable violence upon all the peoples of Tyria. That, and there’s an Elder Dragon on the loose, one that directly threatens her. She might have a lot on her mind and not enough time to spare.

it’s an excuse to keep us waiting two more weeks before the plot develops. as far as excuses for cliffhangers go, it isn’t too bad. especially since each time we did converse with the pale tree during the story, it was kind of a big deal that we were allowed in her presence.

though i find it kinda hilarious, the idea of writing a letter to the pale tree.

BrunoBRS.5178:

it’s an excuse to keep us waiting two more weeks before the plot develops. as far as excuses for cliffhangers go, it isn’t too bad.

though i find it kinda hilarious, the idea of writing a letter to the pale tree.

I’m more interested to see Jennah’s role in all of this. She was alluded to a few times in the story. Kasmeer mentioned her as one of the leaders that’d prove most dangerous to Mordremoth, and then in Timberline Falls, the vines seem to be going after a locket that has a powerful enchantment showing the current ruler of Kryta, which would be Jennah.

Vexander.9850:

BrunoBRS.5178:

it’s an excuse to keep us waiting two more weeks before the plot develops. as far as excuses for cliffhangers go, it isn’t too bad.

though i find it kinda hilarious, the idea of writing a letter to the pale tree.

I’m more interested to see Jennah’s role in all of this. She was alluded to a few times in the story. Kasmeer mentioned her as one of the leaders that’d prove most dangerous to Mordremoth, and then in Timberline Falls, the vines seem to be going after a locket that has a powerful enchantment showing the current ruler of Kryta, which would be Jennah.

canach has been bought by a shining blade too. jennah will play some role.

though kasmeer’s “i hope the queen is safe” is just what i’d expect of any human. it’s their leader (and a well liked one at that), so of course one of her people would namedrop her when thinking of “important people that could be killed by bad guys”.

Also, when I spoke to the Pale Tree some time after the Gates of Maguuma patch, there was an option to ask about the Elder Dragons, and she gives you a answer similar to Ogden’s book that you find — they are probably a part of Tyria itself, older than we could possibly know.

I don’t recall the whole conversation, but at the end she warns us to keep our friends/loved ones close, saying they will soon be our only lights in a dark world. (seemingly hinting to the events happening right now)

More on topic…Yes, it makes no sense why the Pale Tree wouldn’t talk to us, as out of all the leaders in Tyria, she’s probably the most concerned about stopping the dragons (Or at least she seemed to be regarding Zhaitan), and a dragon that can influence even her offspring isn’t something she’d just ignore.

Besides, we can go see her and talk to her whenever, so I don’t get why the story ended with us preparing to try getting an audience with her, instead of talking to her, then getting ready to warn the other leaders.

Perhaps Kasmeer is unaware of how easy it is to talk to the pale tree? Perhaps she thinks its like the human queen, where she is behind a million castle walls and beaurocrats and guards.

One thing that people don’t seem to understand/notice is that, like the first season of the Living Story, they are still including things that don’t spoil the personal story. So maybe not everyone has become the commander of the Pact. It’s part of the reason we have this squad of NPCs instead of, say, bringing in Destiny’s Edge themselves.

So I don’t mind that we are given some vague title or that we aren’t given the credit for killing Zhaitan. It’ll take some time before we can finally get one earned title people can attribute to us.

Rognik.2579:

One thing that people don’t seem to understand/notice is that, like the first season of the Living Story, they are still including things that don’t spoil the personal story. So maybe not everyone has become the commander of the Pact. It’s part of the reason we have this squad of NPCs instead of, say, bringing in Destiny’s Edge themselves.

So I don’t mind that we are given some vague title or that we aren’t given the credit for killing Zhaitan. It’ll take some time before we can finally get one earned title people can attribute to us.

umm… no. they said outright that from now on, they assume you played all story up to that point. the journal even lists the year of the event, to make sure you know this takes place two years after you killed zhaitan.

also, they kinda destroyed concordia, which was kind of a big deal in the personal story.

its still funny to me
i quit this game 2 years

and am back on track with a lvl 52 eng atm
and it stil amaze me how much the Sylvari nows about every thing

soon i have a lvl 55 story quest that mother tree send me back in time and learn more about zaitan and the risen

how is it poseble that a race that pop out of nowere and is only 25 years old no so much more about the dragons and much more

when humans charr azura norn dont no so much ??

and with the new update about scarlet and the pale tree its again about the Sylvari race

cant w8 to see much more of the story
i always think that Zaitan is not rely the big boss he was just a LT elder dragon

there much be a much bigger treat that we stil need to see
cant w8 :p

sorry for my bad english

Vexander.9850:

BrunoBRS.5178:

it’s an excuse to keep us waiting two more weeks before the plot develops. as far as excuses for cliffhangers go, it isn’t too bad.

though i find it kinda hilarious, the idea of writing a letter to the pale tree.

I’m more interested to see Jennah’s role in all of this. She was alluded to a few times in the story. Kasmeer mentioned her as one of the leaders that’d prove most dangerous to Mordremoth, and then in Timberline Falls, the vines seem to be going after a locket that has a powerful enchantment showing the current ruler of Kryta, which would be Jennah.

Kasmeer mentions Jennah because she’s human and she is talking about a threat to leaders. Kasmeer like Jennah, Jennah is her racial leader. If Kasmeer was a sylvari, the line would likely have referenced the Pale Tree instead of Jennah.

The locket was rather specific (it feeds speculation about using it to find an heir if Jennah dies – while she lives it’s pointless). At the end of the day, Mordremoth goes after magical artifacts (all Elder Dragons do – the Priory deals with this a lot with other dragons, they don’t want their artifacts they are studying to become dragon food). That’s why the vines in Fort Salma went after the obelisk shards. It is probably intentional that the magical artifact’s specific purpose was given this time, I suspect it was elaborated on as a red herring when speculating about which leader might die.

BrunoBRS.5178:

though i find it kinda hilarious, the idea of writing a letter to the pale tree.

Dear Princess Arboria,

Today I learned that friendship is basically worthless, because my friends do no damage, will watch while I bleed out, and would rather go on and on about personal drama instead of just completing the instance so everyone can collect their loot. How can I help my friends shut up, run zerker gear, and l2p?

Your faithful student,

The Hero of Lion’s Arch

chemiclord.3978:

I suppose it doesn’t necessarily mess up the story (yet), but it is an oddity to me.

ArenaNet needed a reason to ‘pause’ the story at this point so they can work on the next chapter. It’s not very neat I’ll admit, but the OOC reason is obvious so I think we can overlook this. I mean, it had to be done somehow.

They did this for three reasons:

1. Cliffhanger: They needed a reason to pause the story and give an outlook.
2. Artificially stretch the next LS episode: We no longer can go to the pale tree directly it seems, so we will need to “wind-up” our way there.
3. Reintroduce Trahearne: Who would you better ask for help getting an audience with the pale tree than Trahearne. It will reintroduce the pact to the story too. Brace yourselves, this won’t end well.

I’m assuming it’s just because Kasmeer assumes the Pale Tree is some queen, not just like mom to a bunch of kids.

I also like the theories Kaiyanwan brought up. Those seem legit and plausible.

perilisk.1874:

BrunoBRS.5178:

though i find it kinda hilarious, the idea of writing a letter to the pale tree.

Dear Princess Arboria,

Today I learned that friendship is basically worthless, because my friends do no damage, will watch while I bleed out, and would rather go on and on about personal drama instead of just completing the instance so everyone can collect their loot. How can I help my friends shut up, run zerker gear, and l2p?

Your faithful student,

The Hero of Lion’s Arch

well on the bright side, kasmeer is learning to spam time warps, something that would elevate mesmers to god-tier on dungeon runs.

only problem is she DCs on my quests >.>

Well what kind of secret she is hiding it is dark enough to be kept from even the most trusted allies.
Perhaps it maybe information about what the Elder Dragon’s origins or something even more plot twisting or lore defining (being that the lore provided by her could change what we know about GW lore as we know it).

TBH, assuming you’re not sylvari, the only theoretical reason you talked to the tree was because you showed up with traherne.

However, they could have couched this cliffhanger a little better by having the tree’s holo-vision or whatever that this is turned off in the open world and the stewards explain that she’s “deep in thought” or something. That would have easily placed a logical block to all players in terms of directly speaking to a tree and getting an awkward lack of current events.

This bothered me as well. The Pale Tree already knows me. I’ve talked with her before. I was the Commander of the Pact. If I came being all like “OMG THIS IS SUPER IMPORTANT I NEED TO TALK TO YOU”, one would think she’d see me. :P This bit seemed quite out of place.

Lothirieth.3408:

This bothered me as well. The Pale Tree already knows me. I’ve talked with her before. I was the Commander of the Pact. If I came being all like “OMG THIS IS SUPER IMPORTANT I NEED TO TALK TO YOU”, one would think she’d see me. :P This bit seemed quite out of place.

It not out of place when she probably knows that our character have seen what Scarlet saw and the meeting will be about the very VERY Dark Secret the Pale Tree has kept a secret becuase it is a type of secret that can’t be told even to her most trusted person she knows.

I remember reading a bit of lore, concerning the mother pale tree and the first born that created nightmare. Once he started asking questions and she had no answers, he got angry and she became disassociated. It was like, once he became unimportant to her, in her mind he became irrelevant enough to ignore or forget. I thought this concept was odd behavior for the sainted mother.
It may well be, the once the big ‘Z’ was eliminated, my character may have become irrelevant to her, no longer needed in the grand scheme of things, in her small world. And being irrelevant, no longer having the access to her “wisdom”.

Jenstone.6891:

I remember reading a bit of lore, concerning the mother pale tree and the first born that created nightmare. Once he started asking questions and she had no answers, he got angry and she became disassociated. It was like, once he became unimportant to her, in her mind he became irrelevant enough to ignore or forget. I thought this concept was odd behavior for the sainted mother.
It may well be, the once the big ‘Z’ was eliminated, my character may have become irrelevant to her, no longer needed in the grand scheme of things, in her small world. And being irrelevant, no longer having the access to her “wisdom”.

umm… you got that wrong. Cadeyrn (who founded the nightmare court) wasn’t a firstborn. but he tried to make a big deal that he was “first of the secondborn” (a term he coined and he alone used). the pale tree didn’t give him the importance he wanted (because unlike the first born, he was just one of thousands of sylvari), he became jaded, and eventually founded the nightmare court.

and then at some point faolain took over, and relegated him to a story mode boss fight that doesn’t even have dialogue.

ok, yeah, I was missing a step between first and second born. And I did not remember the lore exactly. However….that does not diminish the fact that the mother tree is not exactly motherly to all the offspring.
And her attitude is of importance, and if you are not important, you don’t matter.

chemiclord.3978:

At the very end of the episode, after the cinematic and your team starts planning their next move, Kasmeer expresses doubt that you would be able to talk directly to the Pale Tree.

Even if you AREN’T sylvari, your character will have already had a direct audience with the Pale Tree. Hell, that audience was expressly about an Elder Dragon. The Pale Tree knows you. She would know why you were calling.

Hell, the question should be, “Why WOULDN’T the Pale Tree talk to you?”

And instead of that assurance, your character kinda shrugs and effectively says that you’ll think of something, like you had never met before and otherwise wouldn’t have any business in The Grove at all.

I suppose it doesn’t necessarily mess up the story (yet), but it is an oddity to me.

I thought the whole “How will you get an audience thing” was about the other leaders of Tyria. Considering the Lion’s Arch leaders didn’t listen to us about Scarlet, it’s easy to see why the NPCs would ask that kind of question.

Also, leaders have to deal with their own problems as well. With the waypoints being affected and vines appearing at weird places, people have to be going ballistic everywhere.

BrunoBRS.5178:

Jenstone.6891:

I remember reading a bit of lore, concerning the mother pale tree and the first born that created nightmare. Once he started asking questions and she had no answers, he got angry and she became disassociated. It was like, once he became unimportant to her, in her mind he became irrelevant enough to ignore or forget. I thought this concept was odd behavior for the sainted mother.
It may well be, the once the big ‘Z’ was eliminated, my character may have become irrelevant to her, no longer needed in the grand scheme of things, in her small world. And being irrelevant, no longer having the access to her “wisdom”.

umm… you got that wrong. Cadeyrn (who founded the nightmare court) wasn’t a firstborn. but he tried to make a big deal that he was “first of the secondborn” (a term he coined and he alone used). the pale tree didn’t give him the importance he wanted (because unlike the first born, he was just one of thousands of sylvari), he became jaded, and eventually founded the nightmare court.

and then at some point faolain took over, and relegated him to a story mode boss fight that doesn’t even have dialogue.

Well, yes.

Cadeyrn was the first of the Secondborn. He was of the Cycle of Noon, and apparently witnessed the first contact between the asura (Kudu being among them) and the sylvari (Malomedies was there, as well as Cadeyrn, uncertain if there were others).

Other events, like Niamh (leader of the wardens and a firstborn of Noon) refusing to kill krait hatchlings, and his experiences over time led him to believe the virtues of the Tablet held the sylvari back, and that they might be better off without it.

This came to a head when he questioned the Pale Tree directly, even suggesting for her to let him “destroy the tablet”, to see what the sylvari might become without its influence.

Ultimately, the Tree didn’t answer any more, but Caithe did, stating the Tree would no longer hear him. When he asked why, once again proudly proclaiming he was Secondborn, she countered with “What does that matter? The Mother Tree has many children now. To her, you are either firstborn, or just sylvari.”

Needless to say, he didn’t take that well. He proclaimed he would free/awaken the Tree from the shackles of the Tablet, and that when he did, then he would be “first in her heart”.

Then Faolain takes over the Court from him later, and he’s reduced to her second in command (he verbally jabs at Caithe twice, but nothing more), and a silly gimmick boss fight. All you ever learn about him in-game is from Caithe, stating that he brought Faolain into the Court (even though she turned evil willingly before taking over the Court later).

Anyways, being more on topic, there’s no reason for the Pale Tree to dismiss us now even after beating Zhaitan, seeing as we were still able to talk to her during all the Invasive Weed nonsense, as well as warning the PC about something being behind said weed’s madness, and being thankful to us after we admitted to killing Scarlet and assuring that we were a force for good.

Jenstone.6891:

ok, yeah, I was missing a step between first and second born. And I did not remember the lore exactly. However….that does not diminish the fact that the mother tree is not exactly motherly to all the offspring.
And her attitude is of importance, and if you are not important, you don’t matter.

well, she had 12 servants/kids, whom she cared for dearly. it was like that for at least two years. and then hundreds of others showed up, then thousands. she can’t listen to every single person.

it’s like a religious person complaining their god doesn’t have time to talk to them directly, only to his chosen few. or a more relatable issue, it’s like queen jennah having to personally care about each and every krytan.

just because she’s the “mother tree” doesn’t mean she has time to spend with every single sylvari (especially a looney like cadeyrn). she cares for them, but they’re not her special few. in caithe’s words, “you’re either firstborn, or you’re simply sylvari”.

A more natural transition would have been that being directly hooked up to the Eternal Alchemy knocked the player character out cold for 2 weeks.

Except, of course, that wouldn’t be much fun to play.

BrunoBRS.5178:

Jenstone.6891:

ok, yeah, I was missing a step between first and second born. And I did not remember the lore exactly. However….that does not diminish the fact that the mother tree is not exactly motherly to all the offspring.
And her attitude is of importance, and if you are not important, you don’t matter.

well, she had 12 servants/kids, whom she cared for dearly. it was like that for at least two years. and then hundreds of others showed up, then thousands. she can’t listen to every single person.

it’s like a religious person complaining their god doesn’t have time to talk to them directly, only to his chosen few. or a more relatable issue, it’s like queen jennah having to personally care about each and every krytan.

just because she’s the “mother tree” doesn’t mean she has time to spend with every single sylvari (especially a looney like cadeyrn). she cares for them, but they’re not her special few. in caithe’s words, “you’re either firstborn, or you’re simply sylvari”.

Ok but the point I was making was that there are several people wondering why now, it seems to be difficult to get in and see the pale tree, now after everything that our characters have done. The idea, as Caithe said, ’you’re first born or you are simply sylvari" bears my thoughts out. Unless you are first born, you don’t matter to her, rather unimportant in her grand scheme. So we (some of us not being sylvari) would simply be less than simply sylvari, thus even less important. At one time our characters were important to the pale tree and the story. But since then, our importance to her has diminished and rather quickly. We were with a first born then, so we were important… we are not with a first born now, so not as important.
If she is willing to dismiss one of her own, I can see her willingly dismiss a being that is not of her same race.

It is rather odd that the pc (at least the ones that did the personal story) do not mention his/her connections and favours s/he can call in with respect to paying a visit to the Pale Tree.

To me it was quite disconcerting having to hear Kas go on about trying to get an audience when it really should have nothing to do with her.

It is the same for a sylvari character. My sylvari didn’t say anything about having connections with the pale tree, and even said “You think you could get us an audience with the pale tree??” like…. what is my sylvari talking about, of course he could go see his own dang mom without the help of kas, why did he say that.
It was definitely a weird transition that doesn’t make much sense, especially if you’re a sylvari character.

Yeah. It makes no sense for there to be issues with talking to the Pale Tree when you could already do it whenever you wanted (and being the Commander of the Pact as well as the one credited with beating Zhaitan, the Tree would certainly have no reason to not hear us out for a time).

Makes even less sense if you’re already a Sylvari as is. I haven’t played through the story as a sylvari yet, but I’ll see if any dialogue changes.

Vexander.9850:

I’m more interested to see Jennah’s role in all of this.

She is a direct descendant of king Doric, and as such her blood might possibly unlock the power still contained in Bloodstones. Dragons feed on magic, if some of it is still sealed, breaking that seal would be beneficial to them (more nourishment all around).

I’ve played through to the end of the ‘Entanglement’ chapter and after I’ve went and spoken to the Pale Tree. What stuck out from that dialogue is she telling me she and her sylvari originated from the ‘Dream Realm’. To me this imply she and her sylvari might not be of tyrian cosmos.

chemiclord.3978:

At the very end of the episode, after the cinematic and your team starts planning their next move, Kasmeer expresses doubt that you would be able to talk directly to the Pale Tree.

Even if you AREN’T sylvari, your character will have already had a direct audience with the Pale Tree. Hell, that audience was expressly about an Elder Dragon. The Pale Tree knows you. She would know why you were calling.

Hell, the question should be, “Why WOULDN’T the Pale Tree talk to you?”

I thought it a bit odd too, but then, perhaps it’s a bit of a spoiler for anyone playing season 2 that hasn’t done the personal story line yet. “Let’s just make this conversation a bit fuzzy in case someone hasn’t finished the PS yet.”

I went straightaway to her, she continues to call me “my beautiful child” asked me questions about whether I was the one to kill Scarlett to which I replied “no, I did not” – she said that I could leave her presence guilt-free and to keep Ventari’s teachings in my heart. Which was interesting, had I been one of the PC’s to deal the killing blow, would she have rejected me for killing one of her children?

Edited: Now that my char has killed Aerin, perhaps in the future (after the patch) perhaps she won’t want to talk to me. hmmm…

BrunoBRS.5178:

Jenstone.6891:

I remember reading a bit of lore, concerning the mother pale tree and the first born that created nightmare. Once he started asking questions and she had no answers, he got angry and she became disassociated. It was like, once he became unimportant to her, in her mind he became irrelevant enough to ignore or forget. I thought this concept was odd behavior for the sainted mother.
It may well be, the once the big ‘Z’ was eliminated, my character may have become irrelevant to her, no longer needed in the grand scheme of things, in her small world. And being irrelevant, no longer having the access to her “wisdom”.

umm… you got that wrong. Cadeyrn (who founded the nightmare court) wasn’t a firstborn. but he tried to make a big deal that he was “first of the secondborn” (a term he coined and he alone used).

To be fair, Trahearne is the first of the Firstborn and I think he does get some respect for that. Honestly, I “forgot” that when I first read it, but discovering it again, Trahearne is the first of his species (afaik). That’s pretty cool. First of the Secondborn? Less cool.

But yeah, Kasmeer was ridiculous suggesting she write a letter to the Pale Tree. My sylvari PC has had numerous PS audiences with her, all players have been there as part of the Pact story (canonically this all assumes you’ve completed PS) and anyone can just walk into the Omphallos Chamber and talk to her. Her dialogue even recognises changing events in the Living Story (you could ask her about Scarlet before she died, you can inform her you killed Scarlet after she died). The first thing I did after reading about an audience with the Pale Tree in the most recent chapter was to WP to the grove and float on up.

At best Kasmeer is in no way the most logical candidate to make contact with the Pale Tree, at worst it’s completely unnecessary. It was the wrong cliffhanger to go with (still not as silly as Mordremoth’s anticlimactic reveal). BTW guys the Edge of the Mists update ended with a big cliffhanger (Lion’s Arch is about to be attacked).

BrunoBRS.5178:

though i find it kinda hilarious, the idea of writing a letter to the pale tree.

I imagine you need to be careful what to write it on. Need to find yourself some parchment as paper would likely be offensive.

shogei.8015:

BrunoBRS.5178:

though i find it kinda hilarious, the idea of writing a letter to the pale tree.

I imagine you need to be careful what to write it on. Need to find yourself some parchment as paper would likely be offensive.

Just write it on human skin.

EdwinLi.1284:

Well what kind of secret she is hiding it is dark enough to be kept from even the most trusted allies.
Perhaps it maybe information about what the Elder Dragon’s origins or something even more plot twisting or lore defining (being that the lore provided by her could change what we know about GW lore as we know it).

It’d be only Episode 3 so I don’t expect answers without adding more questions. :P