Guild Wars 2

Is anyone complaining TM is too hard? Because wow, I’d smack them…. that’s the point of TM.

I finished all of the TM modes before the changes but really I still think TM mode was more tedious, RNG based, and buggy then actual hard content that would reward a skilled played who knew what to do.

You often clip on edges, get hit in mid air by nothing, have a tail get you killed due to the kitten way your game registers where you are, camera issues, darkness of final level being to low ‘n’ turning up your gamma causing crashes, levels are tedious long not fun long, random lag spikes that do not even register as lag (assuming lag anyways but never lagged before like this ever in GW2) until almost 20 seconds afterward when you just die standing in a safe spot because of spikes you hit well 20 seconds ago before you made the final move into the safe spot, ice movement that isn’t consistent. There is more but you get the idea.

None of that even touches on the forced use of a mechanic I see as a little unforgiving and or bugged called dodge jumping. A mechanic that besides a few rare spots in PvP is not required, taught, or even known to many in the game at all. Yet in World 2 it is pretty much required for nearly all of it on TM mode without exception. The timing has to be done spot on as well without even a decimal point of forgiveness. I’d call a fighting game chain combo more forgiving then it. Very rarely do I get this kinda issue with two buttons needing to be pressed on the PC at the same time. Been playing MMORPG’s since the bloody days of UO and EQ as well. (Yes, I can do it but it doesn’t change what a butt it is here.)

I enjoyed the first SAB to death even though I felt it was to easy when it first came out. Tribulation mode in world 1 all zones I thought was done really well but world 2 all zones? It just felt like a really long kittened grind that I wanted to end sooner because it was devoid of any inkling of fun. Sure I finished it and will probably end up going one more time for that spare skin for the swap weapon. Doesn’t change the fact I still think it is a miserable tedious experience and I’d rather go get hit by a car almost then do it again.

What really makes it worse is after all that I just get one bloody skin as well. Not items to make at least 3 skins for a price of 25g each or something to help balance it in someway. Nope! If I want a side PvP skin and some PvE skins just for one character I’m going to have to run all of it all over again. I feel so bad for people that use one handed weapons in both sets on that front.

I really wanted to walk away from TM with nothing but love but.. nope… can’t do it. I’d have to say older Nintendo games on the bloody NES with that button you had to mash hard to use because you played to much were more forgiving them your bloody World 2 TM modes. Nice job on TM for World 1 but.. world 2 man.. really?

(Edit:) Noticed it sounded a little harsh there Josh. Still love your idea, love the first SAB, loved world 1 TM’s, and such. Not trying to be mean but TM world 2 man.. just.. reminded me more of my high warlord grind in WoW in terms of being tedious over fun.)

Mouby.7096:

People don’t get it, the trib mode is supposed to be the “hardmode”, it is supposed to be hard. Stop whining if you can’t make it. You simply don’t deserve it in this case.

No one is complaining about Tribulation mode, if you read some of the posts you would realizse. This topic was all about Normal mode only. Everyone was fine with Tribulation mode.

Aedelric.1287:

Mouby.7096:

People don’t get it, the trib mode is supposed to be the “hardmode”, it is supposed to be hard. Stop whining if you can’t make it. You simply don’t deserve it in this case.

No one is complaining about Tribulation mode, if you read some of the posts you would realizse. This topic was all about Normal mode only. Everyone was fine with Tribulation mode.

Yes, and now we are complaning because the nerfs on Normal mode also affected the Tribulation mode which it should not have done.

Gav.1425:

You said SAB would be hard. You said it wasn’t for everyone.

Now you nerf it and dumb it all down for those ‘weakest links’. Everyone who did it the hard way, I hope you enjoy the big [Moto’s finger] you just got.

ArenaNet: No newbs left behind!

I did it the hard way and I’ve retained my rewards. Where’s the finger in that?

Stop being so angry just because a few more people are allowed to share in on the fun. Not everybody has a perfect Internet connection or the ability to play the game under ideal circumstances. This needs to be accounted for when designing content. Josh and gang did the responsible thing here in tuning the difficulty.

AppleHack.7340:

Yes, and now we are complaning because the nerfs on Normal mode also affected the Tribulation mode which it should not have done.

Then you should not be posting it in a topic about normal mode being too hard.

Josh:

You may have gone a little overboard with the extra bubbles (I think we just weren’t exploring because of the punishing issues), but I’m certainly not going to complain about that.

THANK YOU for implementing bug workarounds so quickly.

Aedelric.1287:

AppleHack.7340:

Yes, and now we are complaning because the nerfs on Normal mode also affected the Tribulation mode which it should not have done.

Then you should not be posting it in a topic about normal mode being too hard.

I’d go a bit further than that, and point out that NO ONE should be complaining about BUG FIXES. Honestly, had I known the issues with World 2 difficulty were almost entirely due to engine issues, I probably would have been less upset the first night.

I’m willing to bet cash that most of the people saying that Tribulation Mode is too easy are using video walkthroughs with an Infinite Coin.

If they think TM is too easy, maybe they should drop that Coin in the bank.

RvLeshrac.2673:

Josh:

You may have gone a little overboard with the extra bubbles (I think we just weren’t exploring because of the punishing issues), but I’m certainly not going to complain about that.

THANK YOU for implementing bug workarounds so quickly.

Yeah, I agree. I didn’t think you’d have this rolled out this soon, Josh. This just made my weekend.

RvLeshrac.2673:

I’m willing to bet cash that most of the people saying that Tribulation Mode is too easy are using video walkthroughs with an Infinite Coin.

If they think TM is too easy, maybe they should drop that Coin in the bank.

This is pretty much what I imagine is happening (though I’m sure we’ll get a lot of people saying how wrong we are!). Thanks for sharing the laugh with me

I’m fully okay with trib mode being unfairly and ridiculously hard. I’ll still give it a try even though I’m not sure after my earlier try (interrupted by a net disconnection) thakittens my cup of tea, and I’m okay with the concept that it may just be too hard for me to do.

Normal mode, I think a good progression from easy to hard is a good idea to pursue. World 2 is not the last world, so the difficulty jump should be more gradual. the new 2-1 I think accomplishes that.

elinos.7493:

Xalugami.2096:

Gav.1425:

You said SAB would be hard. You said it wasn’t for everyone.

Now you nerf it and dumb it all down for those ‘weakest links’. Everyone who did it the hard way, I hope you enjoy the big [Moto’s finger] you just got.

ArenaNet: No newbs left behind!

Yeah, just look at all of those nerfs to hard mode.
…wait a sec

You think nerfing geysers, flowers, jumps, mobs and adding checkpoints does not affect hard mode?

A good 70-80% of TM is trying to determine the correct path. And the fixes weren’t “nerfs,” they are intended to correct bugs.

If you honestly believe that bugs are intended to add “challenge” to TM, I’m sure they can find a way to make some of the traps crash the client for you.

Haven’t checked out the changes as of yet since I’d already completed all of the new areas, but maybe now I will go back again.

Thank you Josh for being so attentive and quick to respond notonly with words but action.

Aedelric.1287:

Great change, normal mode is almost normal again thanks for the hard work Josh. No doubt more work is planned for the next SAB release as a few more areas need improved, but for now I am fine with what has been done.

I have one suggestion to silence selfish people like Gav.1425 who only care about their own enjoyment. Make a directors cut, a challenge mode made by Moto where no additional rewards beyond normal can be obtained, but can go wild with your ideas like vanilla world 2.

It was called Tribulation mode. Now that made it another easy mode.

Selfish? I just like it hard. ;-)

Going off topic from the TM debates (since this thread is about normal mode anyways) I have one minor gripe I don’t think I need to create a new thread for.

In 2-3 I hate how there are SO MANY little cliffs that you have to do hard jumps to get to but I have only found a couple dig spots or hidden rooms! I see a platform up high somewhere, try to get up there for awhile, finally make it to what seems like an obvious secret spot but nothing is there

More a gripe than a complaint like I said, I’m sure these are all here as purposeful distractions or something but it just seems like in the other 5 zones of SAB spots like these would have dig spots or hidden rooms almost every single time.

RvLeshrac.2673:

Aedelric.1287:

AppleHack.7340:

Yes, and now we are complaning because the nerfs on Normal mode also affected the Tribulation mode which it should not have done.

Then you should not be posting it in a topic about normal mode being too hard.

I’d go a bit further than that, and point out that NO ONE should be complaining about BUG FIXES. Honestly, had I known the issues with World 2 difficulty were almost entirely due to engine issues, I probably would have been less upset the first night.

I’m willing to bet cash that most of the people saying that Tribulation Mode is too easy are using video walkthroughs with an Infinite Coin.

If they think TM is too easy, maybe they should drop that Coin in the bank.

Any one using a guide is defeating the purpose of hardmode and I’m not going to take them seriously when they complain TM got “nerfed”. They nerfed their own experience if they’re using a walkthrough.

Not here to complain about anything. Just gonna give a big thumbs up for the way this content was served(And to Josh obviously for this PURE AWESOMENESS of an idea). I finished world 1 trib and started on world 2. Each day I’m taking a few people through the tribulations of world 1 and help them get accustomed to the play style. Half of them only makes it through one zone… other half though finds it extremely rewarding and continue on their own or in groups. I feel kinda sad that 2-1 got nerfed so badly on tribulation as well, but hey, there’s more difficult content out there too. So just move on.

And btw to any that say some parts/mechanics are impossible due to bugs or poor design: I do many runs a day with many different people, and they still manage to find routes I did not even think of. This is strategy game. Once you know the rules, you only need to plan ahead. Everything is perfectly possible/doable in here if you keep an open mind

Kay, time to stop my ranting. I can’t wait for more worlds to come and even harder challenges in them ^ ^

Josh, I am enjoying SAB a lot, thanks. I’m planning on doing TM for W2 pretty soon. I just finished TM for W1 and that was an interesting challenge. Although I gotta say, there were some areas where it was a lil bit too hard. I think I died over 50 times on just those spots.

But anyhow, I really like the design for W2, I think you did a fantastic job. I would say though, if you made it not as lengthy for next time, I think people will be at peace with that.

Btw, I’m not a hardcore player, but I do welcome a challenge once in a while. Well that, and I’m also a completionist.

AmateurGod.5403:

I don’t wanna sound like an kitten but maybe you could take that as a tip to going back to designing content that’s relevant to MMORPG players.

…

Whatever word “kitten” censored here, you sound like it. I don’t particularly like WvW, should I tell them to stop developing it and do things I care about? If you don’t like it go play something else and stop being selfish.

Saw that world 2 got nerfed and just popped in to say i appreciated the original version, while i do understand the nerfs.

I think games like SAB should always get harder the further up in it you get.

Unlike a typical game though, you can’t play through all of SAB in one sitting and instead only get 1 world every ~5 months. This is why i can totally understand the average player getting all excited for more of the SAB he remembers from world 1 and then getting destroyed when it’s actually harder than the first world. People are rusty, that’s part of the problem.

Luckily i managed to clear all the modes before the nerfs. I enjoyed this new patch of SAB and hope you guys can find a way to keep the difficulty ramp up without upsetting players for world 3! 2-3 was my favorite on TM. There were a lot less suprise spike deaths and more of hard platforming and iceskating.

Also like others have stated, these changes really shouldn’t reflect on Tribulation Mode which is supposed to be hard by design.

I just read the update notes. And without even playing it, I’d like to thank you, Josh.

“Geysers will always remain up and will never go back down.’

I’m sad about this one…. But on all other points, thank you!

Okay, so I did tribulation mode for World Two Zone Two yesterday, and wanted to do World Two Zone Three today.

What do I find? That I have to redo 2 for the THIRD TIME because I left before the countdown finished because I was mentally exhausted after having to do that. And this was before the patch, as well.

I don’t want to do this yet again. Please tell me it’ll be fixed at some point.

Me and a friend were hesitant on trying W2 after having a hard time and being forced to run in infantile mode after the buggy rapids, but now with the new patch we are excited to get those achieves and complete it for good! Thanks so much Josh on getting this patch out so fast!

Was it intentional that Super Tribulating Adventure Box’s Acronym is STAB? Or is that just a happy coincidence?

Personally, I think the infinite continue coin was a little overboard in the pay to win department…

I haven’t attempted world two as of yet, but world one tribulation mode was mostly fine; although, I did find it too be a bit too much on the trial and error side.

Way to give in Anet. Im no Hardcore player or Elitist but this really makes me loose faith in your guys. You used to stand behind alot of the content you made. Thats why we waited so many years for this game. It was good. Now its way to easy. Glad I did W2 Z1-2 yesterday.

Sorry Moto…….

EoNenmacil.2361:

Way to give in Anet. Im no Hardcore player or Elitist but this really makes me loose faith in your guys. You used to stand behind alot of the content you made. Thats why we waited so many years for this game. It was good. Now its way to easy. Glad I did W2 Z1-2 yesterday.

Sorry Moto…….

Yes, it’s soooo horrible that they release bug fixes….

Just ruins everything.

Like when they made engineer rocket boots useful, why, why did they do that? It made the game too easy having a skill that actually worked and didn’t get you killed!

Devs please stop listening to the people who whine about this… Or atleast if you are making default mode easier ( which makes easy mode pointless) make TM even harder.

Josh,

Please don’t mind some of the rabble-rousers in this thread. I read the patch notes and I think you’ve made the right call.

I’m about to head in and give it a go. I’ll report back, but based on what I’ve seen, and what others are saying, you dun good.

Thank you for being awesome!

The only place I think the new SAB stuff is “too hard” is in W2Z3 where you need 400 baubles for a torch even in infantile mode. Playing through it in normal mode I have no problem getting 400, my first run through to see everything in infantile I had more like 120. It would really be nice if we could somehow return to a checkpoint without starting over, but that’s not as big of a problem.

That said, having spent almost five hours last night on W2Z2 just exploring and searching every tree branch, every platform, every odd stepping stone for dig spots and bombing random walls and such to find hidden rooms…. holy kitten, Josh. This game is amazing. Get them to add the checkpoint thing so each zone doesn’t take me a solid five hours, and I will play everything I know you had a hand in.

Or better yet, convince everyone else at ANet that SAB needs to become a permanent attraction in Rata Sum. I’m sure Moto could use the business, and I might actually stop playing the rest of the game just to play SAB for a few months.

W2Z2 – too long, too frustrating, never going to do it again, not even for achievements.

As an addendum to my previous post… please do not fix this in w2z1.

EoNenmacil.2361:

Way to give in Anet. Im no Hardcore player or Elitist but this really makes me loose faith in your guys. You used to stand behind alot of the content you made. Thats why we waited so many years for this game. It was good. Now its way to easy. Glad I did W2 Z1-2 yesterday.

Sorry Moto…….

Please show me your vid of you without a continue coin or guide going through TM without dying once, since content is clearly too easy for you.

I just want to quickly post that I greatly enjoy SAB right now! The patch fixed some of the annoying issues and world 2 is very much doable now. I’m already looking forward to world 3 and in the meantime I am going to get the meta achievement and have some fun in tribulation mode. (Once that silly bug with the spawn location has been fixed)

I waited to run normal mode (just ran infantile to see things) until the patch you were working on came out as I wanted to avoid any unnecessary frustrations with bugs. I’ve finished 2-1 and am working through 2-2. I’m having loads of fun! The flower change was such a good changed (experienced them being temperamental before the patch.) I think this is spot on difficulty for normal mode.

Well done Jokittenhanks for your hard work and willingness to communicate with the community.

fungihoujo.8476:

Please show me your vid of you without a continue coin or guide going through TM without dying once, since content is clearly too easy for you.

^^^ So much this. ^^^

I love some of the changes, although you could have made the geysers go down every once in a while, or just change the thing that knocks you back if you’re on the geyser when it goes down.

Thank you so much!

Lil Puppy.5216:

The problem with many of the things (water spouts, jumping rocks, several other things) is that they register hits on the apex of the animations (up animation) instead of when they’ve reached the bottom of the cycle like the water spout kills you at the top, not the bottom when it is fully in the water where it should trigger it and the same goes for the jumping rocks in tribulation mode.

GameObjectThatMovesUpAndDown
.triggerEvent(upAnimation)
.onAnimationComplete(KillPlayer)
.triggerEvent(downAnimation);

The 1 second refresh for most of the animation cycles is bad too cause it takes you 1 second to go through your ‘get up’ cycle so you have .1 seconds to dodge/jump to safety.

It’s hard enough to get out of the water if you’re really fast, it should probably just sweep you back while taking 1/2 heart without the blowback mechanic. Since you now have the moving log mechanic, you can do that with water too. For some areas like the frogger thing, change the color of the water to indicate depth and insta-kill you there or put piranhas in it.

Screenshot (trib mode) I’ve spent more time and lives on this single aspect than the entirety of the game so far. This rock jumps and hits you before you can get out of your ‘get up’ animation cycle, this jump to the safe spot (that requires you to use the jumping rock itself to get to) is absolutely pure luck. Not to mention that if he knocks you to a spot left or right of the safe area and you’re still on it but your body hangs over the lava pit while downed, you die. So if my feet are still in the safe zone ( i could stand up if I weren’t getting knocked down all the time) I would be safe still but my hair is hanging into the pit so I die.

Funny thing is, you don’t need to jump on that rock to get to the end. I went a completely different way. I went up the mountain like you would normally. There is a small spot where the spikes can’t hit you. You can jump around the tree and then up the back end of the mountain to the top. I did trib mode before Dulfy came out with a guide, so when I saw that bouncy rock, I steered clear of that.

minbariguy.7504:

fungihoujo.8476:

Please show me your vid of you without a continue coin or guide going through TM without dying once, since content is clearly too easy for you.

^^^ So much this. ^^^

If you think you aren’t supposed to die, you don’t understand the game type.

KorKor.9452:

None of that even touches on the forced use of a mechanic I see as a little unforgiving and or bugged called dodge jumping. A mechanic that besides a few rare spots in PvP is not required, taught, or even known to many in the game at all. Yet in World 2 it is pretty much required for nearly all of it on TM mode without exception. The timing has to be done spot on as well without even a decimal point of forgiveness. I’d call a fighting game chain combo more forgiving then it. Very rarely do I get this kinda issue with two buttons needing to be pressed on the PC at the same time. Been playing MMORPG’s since the bloody days of UO and EQ as well. (Yes, I can do it but it doesn’t change what a butt it is here.)

I completed World 2 with exactly zero dodge-jumps (both Normal and Tribulation Mode). Yes, it makes some of the jumps a little more forgiving, but definitely not required. In fact, I think Josh himself said that they (QA) test content not using dodge-jumps, even though they do help sometimes.

Player Character.9467:

minbariguy.7504:

fungihoujo.8476:

Please show me your vid of you without a continue coin or guide going through TM without dying once, since content is clearly too easy for you.

^^^ So much this. ^^^

If you think you aren’t supposed to die, you don’t understand the game type.

Oh, I understand it, all right. That’s why I wouldn’t attempt Tribulation Mode myself. Far too frustrating for me.

Sure, you’re supposed to die; but people who consider themselves “hardcore” enough to complain that Tribulation is too easy shouldn’t need to rely on the crutch of infinite lives to complete such easy content.

minbariguy.7504:

Player Character.9467:

minbariguy.7504:

fungihoujo.8476:

Please show me your vid of you without a continue coin or guide going through TM without dying once, since content is clearly too easy for you.

^^^ So much this. ^^^

If you think you aren’t supposed to die, you don’t understand the game type.

Oh, I understand it, all right. That’s why I wouldn’t attempt Tribulation Mode myself. Far too frustrating for me.

Sure, you’re supposed to die; but people who consider themselves “hardcore” enough to complain that Tribulation is too easy shouldn’t need to rely on the crutch of infinite lives to complete such easy content.

The infinite token is just a more efficient alternative to farming 80 hours of coins. Again, not hard.

Player Character.9467:

The infinite token is just a more efficient alternative to farming 80 hours of coins. Again, not hard.

It’s still a crutch. Otherwise you wouldn’t be able to keep trying and trying and trying back to back, perfecting the jumps.

minbariguy.7504:

Player Character.9467:

minbariguy.7504:

fungihoujo.8476:

Please show me your vid of you without a continue coin or guide going through TM without dying once, since content is clearly too easy for you.

^^^ So much this. ^^^

If you think you aren’t supposed to die, you don’t understand the game type.

Oh, I understand it, all right. That’s why I wouldn’t attempt Tribulation Mode myself. Far too frustrating for me.

Sure, you’re supposed to die; but people who consider themselves “hardcore” enough to complain that Tribulation is too easy shouldn’t need to rely on the crutch of infinite lives to complete such easy content.

You’re misunderstanding those of us who are against the nerfs don’t think the content is easy. With think it is finally challenging and we seek to keep it that way.

What happened to gamers, man. Why does everything has to be nerfed? What is wrong with all of you? TM is VERY hard, yes. But it is entirely doable. Just grab a beer, pizza and a friend (and a good infinite coin) and go die in a fun way lol
FYI: “I’m playing hello kitty island adventure” Butters from South Park

My first post on these forums.

Too hard for me as a “serious” casual player. I enjoyed World 1 difficulty and will play that to get a skin or two but won’t be playing World 2 let alone 3 and 4 when they come out

CryxTryx.9208:

You’re misunderstanding those of us who are against the nerfs don’t think the content is easy. With think it is finally challenging and we seek to keep it that way.

These two posts are from just the last two pages of this thread alone (emphasis mine):

Gav.1425:

You said SAB would be hard. You said it wasn’t for everyone.

Now you nerf it and dumb it all down for those ‘weakest links’. Everyone who did it the hard way, I hope you enjoy the big [Moto’s finger] you just got.

ArenaNet: No newbs left behind!

EoNenmacil.2361:

Way to give in Anet. Im no Hardcore player or Elitist but this really makes me loose faith in your guys. You used to stand behind alot of the content you made. Thats why we waited so many years for this game. It was good. Now its way to easy. Glad I did W2 Z1-2 yesterday.

Sorry Moto…….

So it certainly appears as if some players are saying it’s too easy. That’s what I was responding to. For the record, I do get that you aren’t saying it’s too easy, and I totally respect that. And I do support keeping Tribulation Mode as hard as possible for those of you that like it. I have no problem with that.

The infinite lives coin doesn’t make your jumps easier, or your attacks more accurate, no. But surely the people who are claiming that this content is too easy (not you) would have no problem beating SAB without relying on a cash shop item to make their experience more convenient.

People who claim to like uber-difficult content shouldn’t want “convenient”.

minbariguy.7504:

People who claim to like uber-difficult content shouldn’t want “convenient”.

Going to have to agree with that. If you bought the ICC you really have no right to call yourself hardcore. Josh even compared it to using a Game Genie. If you did everything without it… well, hats off to you.

Garzin.7185:

Devs please stop listening to the people who whine about this… Or atleast if you are making default mode easier ( which makes easy mode pointless) make TM even harder.

God, yeah, stop fixing bugs or caring about players on the EU servers. They deserve latency!

/sarcasm

Seriously, did you guys even read this thread, Josh’s replies, or the patch notes? Having to leave the geysers up was unfortunate but 95% of the fixes were lag, latency, and bug related and the other 5% were fixing difficulty spikes the Dev never intended in the first place.

Josh didn’t “buckle”, W2 now plays the way he pretty much intended and every time you guys whine and point fingers at the playerbase, you’re really smacking him in the face too. How dare he want something he designed to play as intended and be enjoyable. How dare. He didn’t listen to the complaints about nerfing the difficulty 100%, did you bother to notice that? Good for him on that too.

Personally, W2 is still hard for me but not in the unfair, fighting the game engine and bugs way. It’s hard in the way it was intended to be.

As for TM… with all the kittening, I think no one should fix the new bugs like spawning in lava and dying on spawning at the checkpoint. Nope. Leave it. You guys don’t want bug fixes. Have a buggy game.