Guild Wars 2

Tribulation Mode is not very hard mode. It’s “Surprise You’re Dead for NO Apparent Reason Mode”.

Players want a challenge they at least have a chance of avoiding based on skill. But Tribulation Mode is only trial and error until you learn where the hidden traps are.

Why not use something like the gambit system from Crown Pavilion.
*one heart gambit
*no continues gambit

I’m not saying Tribulation Mode shouldn’t exist. But it isn’t hard based on skill.

When you die, you die for a very good reason.

Also, there’s some incredibly difficult jumps in there even if you know everything. Check out Woodenpotatoe’s attempt. Many times he died on jumps he knew exactly where to jump to.

Random mines and spike pits underground that can not be seen, is dying for no reason.

Onshidesigns.1069:

Random mines and spike pits underground that can not be seen, is dying for no reason.

I don’t understand.

The lava and spike pits are not random. They’re at the same position every single time you go. Hence, not random.

And they are the reason why you die, hence you do die for a reason.

Ursan.7846:

Onshidesigns.1069:

Random mines and spike pits underground that can not be seen, is dying for no reason.

I don’t understand.

The lava and spike pits are not random. They’re at the same position every single time you go. Hence, not random.

And they are the reason why you die, hence you do die for a reason.

But skill will not help the player avoid then the first time playing Tribulation Mode.

Onshidesigns.1069:

Random mines and spike pits underground that can not be seen, is dying for no reason.

I think it’s more along the lines of “randomly forgetting where the traps are”. If there’s a safe zone, and you forget where it is, then it’s obvious that you’ll die when you land on the wrong spot.

Onshidesigns.1069:

But skill will not help the player avoid then the first time playing Tribulation Mode.

I think you missed the point of the design, then. It’s not meant for people to be able to avoid death in the first try. As Josh Foreman said himself, death itself is part of the learning process.

Do you not see that this is trial and error, and not based on skill.

Onshidesigns.1069:

Do you not see that this is trial and error, and not based on skill.

They are not mutually exclusive. It requires both trial and error, memorization of patterns, and a certain aptitude in jumping.

If it was pure skill. I could see some indication of where traps are.

Nobody said it as pure skill. People said thakittens BOTH trial and error, and skill =)

Onshidesigns.1069:

If it was pure skill. I could see some indication of where traps are.

Who’s claiming this? Who’s spreading this notion that Tribulation Mode would NOT require trial-and-error through death?

Requiring skill isn’t the same thing as it being requiring ONLY skill.

I really wouldn’t call it skill, I’d say it’s more how many times do you really want to make the same dumb jump.

Didn’t the devs outright state that Tribulation is basically Cat Mario mode? Cat Mario is meant to have very little skill and basically be rage inducing. Seriously, watch PewDiePie play and it you will get a good idea of what Tribulation is supposed to be xD

The mode is fine for what it is. But was thinking since last release it would be very hard mode. With new explorable areas in zone one.

AlphaDelilas.2873:

Didn’t the devs outright state that Tribulation is basically Cat Mario mode? Cat Mario is meant to have very little skill and basically be rage inducing. Seriously, watch PewDiePie play and it you will get a good idea of what Tribulation is supposed to be xD

Or watch I Want To Be The Guy or Unfair Mario or Kaizo Mario.. it’s meant to be EXTREMELY unfair, cheap, and rage inducing – an artificial, overblown, stupidly hard imitation of “Nintendo Hard” games that relies purely on learning where the traps are and following movement patterns.

Onshidesigns.1069:

Tribulation Mode is not very hard mode. It’s “Surprise You’re Dead for NO Apparent Reason Mode”.

Players want a challenge they at least have a chance of avoiding based on skill. But Tribulation Mode is only trial and error until you learn where the hidden traps are.

Why not use something like the gambit system from Crown Pavilion.
*one heart gambit
*no continues gambit

I’m not saying Tribulation Mode shouldn’t exist. But it isn’t hard based on skill.

Tribulation mode is based on Torture Platformers like I Wanna be the Guy or Kazio Mario. Those games are entirely rooted in trial and error, the real skill tested is patience and resolve.

Whatever the intention behind it was, I think Onshi is pretty much described why it’s not really hard mode.
I’m not sure about I Wanna be the Guy, but I actually beat Kazio Mario and I can honestly say that’s its purely skill based. All obstacles can be overcome and are completely visible. There’s trial and error, but it’s overcome with sharpening reaction time and reflexes, not memory.

No no no no no, you’re all wrong, it’s not about skill or trial and error.

It’s about infinite continue coin. Now, give Anet your money.

Onshidesigns.1069:

Do you not see that this is trial and error, and not based on skill.

You’ve described 100% of pve in 100% of mmorpgs there. If you’re looking for skill in pve, you’re looking in the wrong place.

You’re going to either need a lot of coins, get infinite coin, or find/wait for a video guide and follow it very carefully.

Aerlen.5326:

AlphaDelilas.2873:

Didn’t the devs outright state that Tribulation is basically Cat Mario mode? Cat Mario is meant to have very little skill and basically be rage inducing. Seriously, watch PewDiePie play and it you will get a good idea of what Tribulation is supposed to be xD

Or watch I Want To Be The Guy or Unfair Mario or Kaizo Mario.. it’s meant to be EXTREMELY unfair, cheap, and rage inducing – an artificial, overblown, stupidly hard imitation of “Nintendo Hard” games that relies purely on learning where the traps are and following movement patterns.

People wouldn’t complain about the trial and error so much if everyone had infinite lives to begin with. Just like in I wanna be the guy and Cat Mario, etc

Devildoc.6721:

Onshidesigns.1069:

Tribulation Mode is not very hard mode. It’s “Surprise You’re Dead for NO Apparent Reason Mode”.

Players want a challenge they at least have a chance of avoiding based on skill. But Tribulation Mode is only trial and error until you learn where the hidden traps are.

Why not use something like the gambit system from Crown Pavilion.
*one heart gambit
*no continues gambit

I’m not saying Tribulation Mode shouldn’t exist. But it isn’t hard based on skill.

Tribulation mode is based on Torture Platformers like I Wanna be the Guy or Kazio Mario. Those games are entirely rooted in trial and error, the real skill tested is patience and resolve.

There’s a reason one relies on save points spaced roughly a minute of gameplay apart, and the other relies on emulation features such as Save States and Rewind. No one would care about, or play, either of them if you were forced to, essentially, restart the level after each death.

Charming Rogue.8071:

Aerlen.5326:

AlphaDelilas.2873:

Didn’t the devs outright state that Tribulation is basically Cat Mario mode? Cat Mario is meant to have very little skill and basically be rage inducing. Seriously, watch PewDiePie play and it you will get a good idea of what Tribulation is supposed to be xD

Or watch I Want To Be The Guy or Unfair Mario or Kaizo Mario.. it’s meant to be EXTREMELY unfair, cheap, and rage inducing – an artificial, overblown, stupidly hard imitation of “Nintendo Hard” games that relies purely on learning where the traps are and following movement patterns.

People wouldn’t complain about the trial and error so much if everyone had infinite lives to begin with. Just like in I wanna be the guy and Cat Mario, etc

Well…

If you give TM players infinite lives that’s not fair to Normal or Infantile players who still have to grind away for continue coins or make certain to be grouped.

Honestly, I’m no fan of grinding for lives or the Infinite Continue Coin either but TM is for maybe 5% of the GW2 population? Go in with a group but don’t expect Anet to pop out a special favor when you already get unique rewards.

Inspired by this:

Genesis Notch.1905:

Inspired by this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=in6RZzdGki8

this actually
and the Cat Mario game

Coldtart.4785:

Onshidesigns.1069:

Do you not see that this is trial and error, and not based on skill.

You’ve described 100% of pve in 100% of mmorpgs there. If you’re looking for skill in pve, you’re looking in the wrong place.

Oh really, please tell me how you die thirty times in a row in PvE just to understand the mechanics of a dungeon.

Umm, just to bring an important point that hasn’t been mentioned, and I think to be pretty vital to this, cat mario and IWBTG were meant to be entertaining, and they were successful, I don’t see very many jokes around tribulation mode other than the mode itself. it’s like all those IWBTG fan games that are hard for the sake of being hard. There’s a megaman x romhack that is a piece of garbage in terms of design, with the same backgrounds and tilesets(rom hack, what is to be expected really) and that’s what I’d more closely like tribulation mode too.

I think TM is exactly in the right spirit as Cat Mario and IWBTG. I had a lot of laughs with it. I just wished the infinite continue coin wasn’t a requirement…. cause basically it is.

I did this following a youtube guide for W1. Waiting for guide for W2….its gonna take forever seeing how much of a pain W2 is and how long it is.

and yah, unless you are super pro at jumping in this game….the infinite coin is pretty much a requirement to beat this.

The SKILL being tested is your memory, not (just) your reflexes.

KyoHanakaze.8145:

Genesis Notch.1905:

Inspired by this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=in6RZzdGki8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EzxJgWbm_3I

this actually
and the Cat Mario game

I’d say all of them.

Note that in the IWTBTG run, the guy has played it before so he knows where all the instant deaths are, otherwise it would have been trial and error the whole way through and lots of deaths.

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

I think TM is exactly in the right spirit as Cat Mario and IWBTG. I had a lot of laughs with it. I just wished the infinite continue coin wasn’t a requirement…. cause basically it is.

Yeah infinite lives should be a standard of tribulation mode.

Devildoc.6721:

Tribulation mode is based on Torture Platformers like I Wanna be the Guy or Kazio Mario. Those games are entirely rooted in trial and error, the real skill tested is patience and resolve.

Not 100% patience and resolve. Lets take Boshy or IWBTG, I would not able to beat them on hardest difficulty mode even if I would play them for 8h every day for an entire year. My hand-eye coordination and “twitch” is just not as good. From same reason I will never be able to have 300+ APM in Starcraft no matter how much I train. Of course IWBTG also requires that patience and resolve but without decent level of mental and physical abilities it wont be enough to beat it.

Awe.1096:

Devildoc.6721:

Tribulation mode is based on Torture Platformers like I Wanna be the Guy or Kazio Mario. Those games are entirely rooted in trial and error, the real skill tested is patience and resolve.

Not 100% patience and resolve. Lets take Boshy or IWBTG, I would not able to beat them on hardest difficulty mode even if I would play them for 8h every day for an entire year. My hand-eye coordination and “twitch” is just not as good. From same reason I will never be able to have 300+ APM in Starcraft no matter how much I train. Of course IWBTG also requires that patience and resolve but without decent level of mental and physical abilities it wont be enough to beat it.

In this case for the most part the difficulty comes in 1 shot kill invisible hazards that you have to learn by trial and error, the jumping itself isn’t all that much tougher than normal mode.