Guild Wars 2

They announced this change quite some time ago. So, anyone who invested in celestial/MF gear for PvE farming after that really has nothing to say. They gave players AMPLE warning about this. It’s not like they said:
“Oh, tomorrow all your MF still will be gone. Sorry”

This has been known about for quite some time (around early July-ish?).

So, if you invested a LOT of gold into making full celestial, JUST FOR THE MF, well….that’s on you. I don’t feel sorry for anyone that focuses their gear on MF…at all.

Plus, wouldn’t you MF guys be happy? Now you can find PERMANENT MF boosters and temporary ones as random drops, etc…so you don’t HAVE to have it as the armor. So, yeah, your stats on celestial gear for MF will be gone, but why add buffs? If they buffed the defensive/offensive stats by “10%” they would be quite unbalanced. You could add 10-20% MF on any piece of armor and the combat balance wouldn’t change. Adding combat boosts to compensate for removing a small non-combat boost would be ridiculous. If they add a boost, it should be non-combat. Maybe a boost that every time you get hit you have a 10% chance of spawning a little baby quaggan that says “You’re my hero!”…idk..or maybe add a small bonus for out of combat run speed, or +karma.

TL;DR: Adding combat stat advantages which were balanced initially to compensate for removing non-combat stats would just be insane, and most likely unbalance that armor in combat (where you know..the balance matters. If you have +50% MF on your gear, it won’t give you any advantage in combat)

spalt.6938:

I wish they’d replace is with something, even if it’s a non-combat stat.

Like +Gold Find or +Experience.

Hell, +Sparkles even.

If they added +Sparkles, I would head home right now and start crafting Celestial gear.

/justsaying

Please release ascended already. Lets go flipping tatata. Seriously I need moar moneyz.

Handin.4032:

They announced this change quite some time ago. So, anyone who invested in celestial/MF gear for PvE farming after that really has nothing to say.

Not quite. While they did announce the change, they said that the MF will be removed from most gear. Not all, but most. And since crafted celestial gear got introduced about the same time, and it’s crafting difficulty was completely out of sync with its stat worth, a possibility that it would be the one MF gear that will retain the stat was significant. Unfortunately Anet, when asked for clarification, didn’t respond.

And it just happens, that the main reason to craft celestial gear was MF – all other uses are extremely niche (and most of them can be fulfilled better by a hybrid mix of previously-existing sets). The undeniable fact is that there are a lot of people that would have never crafted this set if not for MF stat(*) – now, they should be allowed to at least get the same reroll option as any other MF set owners.

(*) I have considered making the set for exactly this reason – but being paranoid as far as Anet’s decisions are concerned i decided to wait and see. My distrust paid off. Other people’s trust in Anet to not kitten them off did not.

CuRtoKy.8576:

Actually, Celestial gear is good if you do the math. And if they added extra stats to offset the MF then it will automatically be the gear of choice for anyone that doesn’t focus 3-4 specific stats (Full Glass/Bunker builds).

Example:

Say normally you get 200 stat points and it is divided as 90 Major, 55 Minor (x2). And Celestial gives you 210 total stat points divided into 35×6 + critical damage. If you increase the total stat then it becomes an automatic choice for a lot of builds. Say it was 40×6 to offset then you get 240 stat points. That is 40 stats more than a normal triple stat gear. Therefore you get a free stat and have critical damage.

Celestial is fine with or without MF. People like myself bought it because the math showed that it was a good set to use if you need at least 4-5 stats in your build.

Just adding total stats together means nothing. What is important is the weight of those stats which you can bring to bear in combat, and those stats don’t have the same weight (they are not worth the same in combat). If all of the stats had the same weight then everybody wouldn’t be running zerker gear. It’s really not that hard to figure out.

Saying that Celestial gear is good is just wrong. It’s okay for a very few builds, but only okay. So you need 4 or 5 stats? Then buy your armour pieces from two seperate armur types (Zerker and Knights, for example). Mix and match and you can get the exact stat allocation you desire, instead ofsettling for “everything has the same stats”. Decide which stats you need and how many points you want in those stats and buy your gear accordingle. It’s really easy.

Sorry but I’m tired of hearing this rediculous argument. It’s just wrong.

I can’t believe this is still going on, Celestial equipment is fine without magic find, and the devs agree with that statement as well. so there we have it.

havoc.6814:

Just adding total stats together means nothing. What is important is the weight of those stats which you can bring to bear in combat, and those stats don’t have the same weight (they are not worth the same in combat). If all of the stats had the same weight then everybody wouldn’t be running zerker gear. It’s really not that hard to figure out.

Saying that Celestial gear is good is just wrong. It’s okay for a very few builds, but only okay. So you need 4 or 5 stats? Then buy your armour pieces from two seperate armur types (Zerker and Knights, for example). Mix and match and you can get the exact stat allocation you desire, instead ofsettling for “everything has the same stats”. Decide which stats you need and how many points you want in those stats and buy your gear accordingle. It’s really easy.

Sorry but I’m tired of hearing this rediculous argument. It’s just wrong.

That is funny. If adding stats don’t matter then people wouldn’t complain about Ascended stuff coming out since obviously a few extra points wouldn’t matter. On top of that, if adding stats doesn’t matter just run 5 knights + 1 Zerk chest piece even though someone calculated the critical damage value and it is pretty poor on the chest piece. Also, it isn’t hard to figure out that not everyone runs Zerk build in a WvW setting. Have you seen a full Zerk Ele? Most likely not. There are reasons for that. More importantly, people don’t seem to understand the difference between total stat points and distribution. A 6 piece armor set that is exotic has x amount of stat points every time regardless if you do 6x knights or 6x soldiers. The total is the same, how you distribute these stats is what matters. Do you go 4x knight 2x soldier or 4x soldier 2x knight. The player distributes it based on their skill level, play style, and comfort level. If there were actual “weights” then I would like to know what the weights are for power versus toughness versus vitality versus healing power. I’m pretty sure such a number does not exist and it all depends on the player and their style of play and comfort level. If someone is comfortable with 2300 armor and 15k hp then they would get more damage stats. If they aren’t confortable then they would put more defensive stats (toughness/vitality) and there will be less stat points that can be used with power. It isn’t this hard or difficult to figure out and just simply asking people around you would have figured this out easily. Only a new, poor, and inexperienced player would not see this right away because they do not have a lot of experience in min/max, building characters, and theorycrafting.

Saying that it Celestial stat is bad is simply wrong and it shows a lack of in depth analysis.

Lets take normal shoulder armor for example:

Normal is: 34 Major – 24 Minor – 24 Minor (Knights = 34 Toughness, 24 Precision, 24 Power) | Total of 82 stat points distibuted in 34-24-24 pattern.

Celestial is: 15 × 6 + 2% Crit Damage | Total of 90 stat points distributed in 15×6 pattern with crit damage.

Zerk/Valk is: 34 Major – 24 Minor – 2% Crit Damage | Total of 58 stat points.

With Celestial you get 8 more stat points. And say you think Condition Damage and Healing power sucks (you don’t need it) then the remaining would be 15×2 – 8 which is 22 stat points. Say those are considered wasted stats since you are building power, precision, toughness, and vitality. Then the critical damage is 2% for 22 stat points or 1% for 11 stat points which is better than 12 stat points for 1% critical damage from Zerk considering you need power, precision, toughness, vitality, and toughness in your build. It can be armor, trinkets, or weapons but it has to come from some where and you only have a limited amount of stat points to use.

Exotic Armor has a total of 763 stat points.
Exotic Zerk Armor has a total of 538 stat points with 16% Critical Damage | ~14 stat points per 1% critical damage
Exotic Celestial Armor has a total of 840 stat points (77 stats above normal, this is free) | 203 wasted stats (if condition damage and healing power is considered bad) | ~11 stat points per 1% critical damage

If Celestial is really bad like you say then why do some good/top level players use/consider it?

A warrior from Redguard uses Celestial Amulet and 2 Celestial Rings. Osicat Shatter Mesmer uses Celestial Amulet. Excala D/D Ele has used Celestial trinkets for a while now and is now building Celestial Armor. There are much more calculations on the efficency of Celestial and when to use it. It is really easy people just have to do the work.

Astasia.1459:

Except you are wrong. Mixing Knight and Berserker evenly gives almost double the Power, much higher Precision, slightly higher Toughness, and a little less than half the crit damage. If you want those 4 stats you are better off mixing Knight and Berserker than using Celestial.

Any build attempting to use all stats is simply a bad build. Bad builds can be effective in open world and/or zerg content, so can bad gear. I’ve been running around for days on my Mesmer wearing a green set of Explorer’s with all MF upgrades doing just fine in open world content and invasions. That doesn’t mean Explorer’s is a good combat set, open world content is just that easy.

Where is your vitality? When I said 4 stat I mean everything not critical damage. Ok so say 5 stats you won’t do better with zerk + knights.

So lets see, a Warrior from Redguard (a very well known WvW guild) uses Celestial trinkets so that means he is a bad player huh. Osicat uses Celestial Amulet in his latest Shattercat 3.0 build. That means he is a bad player huh. Excala D/D Ele uses Celestial trinkets for the longest time. That must mean he is a bad player too. I’m sure nobody in their right mind would say these three players are bad by any measure. And they use Celestial. Why? Because they thought about it in depth, worked out the math and figure there is a benefit to it and used Celestial to distribute stats.

Again I said the less stat you want/need you will not consider Celestial. Like in PvE if you want full glass pure damage then you only care about power precision critical damage. Then you only build zerk (not even knights). Full bunker is just the reverse. However, if your build needs toughness and vitality or even those 2 plus another stat (condi dmg or healing power) then Celestial is a worthy consideration.

havoc.6814:

To your examples of a few players using Celestial trikets: I’ll definatively give you that the odd piece or two of celestial can be okay, but that falls into what I said about mixing and matching. For all the rest of your wall of text, I just have to say that massive amounts of writing doesn’t make you right. A full set of Celestial gear is never going to be the best allotment of points, unless of course you want to specialize in being really good at mediocrity.

Where did I say going FULL Celestial (weapons, armor, trinket) is 100% always good? Nowhere. If you read my post I said distribution. And Celestial is a viable in itself in terms of distributing stat points when you are going for multiple stats like power, precision, vitality, and toughness along with critical damage.

So what you are saying is that you are agreeing with me, because 6x Celestial Armor = / = running full Celestial. One would swap in different trinkets and weapon stats to get the desired levels of power, precision, toughness, vitality, and critical damage that a person wants. OP continued to say that Celestial is just plain out bad which I strongly disagree.

To my argument about Celestial stat. If they offset more stats to “make up” for Magic Find it would just make Celestial a better choice. An example is Celestial Coat: which is 45×6 all stat with 6% critical damage and magic find. So 3% MF is 50% of critical damage so say they give an extra boost of 3 stat points to everything to replace MF. It would be 48×6 with 6% critical damage. Total stat would be 288 points and normally a chest piece like knights has a total of 245 points. Difference is 43 which is free stat and the rest you can calculate into critical damage (considering you don’t care about condi dmg). Now that is less than 50% if you replace MF with <50% of one stat and distribute it over 6 stats. If you increase a bit more to like 49×6 then you get a difference of 49 points. That is a free stat and when you calculate critical damage you get ~8 stat point per 1% critical damage (that is low). So in this case if you are already building power, precision, toughness, vitality, and critical damage why would you choose anything else? If you need more power or something after your armor set then just use trinkets where ascended Celestial trinkets give less critical damage than normal ascended Cavalier or Zerk trinkets.

If they are not going to compensate for the loss of MF, then they need to give the option to completely refund the mats, sigils, runes, and transmutation items. Because Celestial just became pointless.

I think Celestial is ok as it is for classes utilizing all stats equally…

I wonder what happens to my Satchel of Explorer armor recipe (already known/consumed) though… I didn’t find anything about it – is anything known about that?

Rayti.6531:

I think Celestial is ok as it is for classes utilizing all stats equally…

I wonder what happens to my Satchel of Explorer armor recipe (already known/consumed) though… I didn’t find anything about it – is anything known about that?

They said that any recipes for MF sets will be replaced with some new stat sets. Perhaps those will be useful.

…and there are no classes that utilize all stats equally. Even if you use all stats, some are just worth way more than others, and some are not worth much without heavily investing in others first (crit dam for example needs high prec, because it doesn’t matter if you can’t crit consistently).
The main reason why several celestial stat based builds got created (beyond using celestial as MF set, of course) was sPvP, where you just can’t go hybrid. Some of the builds migrated, and since people tend to ape them, most do not think to modify them for better efficiency.

As an Ele I like to use my Celestial set now and then. I couldn’t think of a single stat on the armor I don’t need/can’t utilize.

I have a specific set for each of my builds and also use them in situations where I wan’t to fully use a specific build, using specific stats.

But sometimes I just like to use my Celestial armor to push other stats I wouldn’t have in the specialized armor without losing all stats I’m trying to specialize on… Also when trying to fine tune specific stats some of the Celestial gear can be used.

There are situations where you need e.g. a Berserker like build, but not pure Berserker, etc. Then some extra survivability given by this armor doesn’t hurt at all and due to the Crit DMG stats being maxed out on this set, it makes sense to use the set now and then.

So I wouldn’t render the Celestial set useless, just because it loses the magic find stats.

I am an ele as well, and the MF was the breaking point for the set. Without it, the set is POINTLESS.

While I don’t agree that the MF was the only point of the set, I do think some sort of “compensation” is warranted, purely in comparison to other MF equipment like Traveler’s and Wayfarer’s. As everyone knows, standard exotics all give you the same three stat numbers, with different selections of stats. The MF on those sets replaces a third stat.

Those sets were, presumably, made to be balanced against other options. While you can’t really measure the worth of Magic Find against combat stats, the fact remains that, through whatever process, Anet determined those few points of MF to be of roughly equal value to the third attribute they replaced. If you removed the MF from Wayfarer’s or Traveler’s you would be left with blatantly inferior items. The presence of Magic Find IS considered to be worth some amount of combat attributes, as far as game balance goes.

Unless you want to argue that Celestial was added either with the knowledge thakittens MF attribute would soon be removed or was knowingly unbalanced, I would have to assume thakittens attributes were also determined with this MF. Like the other MF sets, I have to assume that it is considered to be of equivalent worth to some amount of combat stats, and was placed there INSTEAD of them.

It’s not my place to claim how many attributes it’s worth, as personal experience is a poor position for arguing game-wide balance to begin with and I’m not about to craft a bunch of expensive sets just to test it anyway. But it does seem to me that by the item balance the game set forth, simply stripping the MF find without some sort of compensation, despite it not being a combat attribute, seems unfair.

Or maybe they could just meet halfway and replace it with coin find or something.

Avatara.1042:

I am an ele as well, and the MF was the breaking point for the set. Without it, the set is POINTLESS.

As I already said (making my point up there, no idea if you read it). As an additional set it is nice. Right now, I also mainly use it for MF, but also without it, the set can be used in several situations…

In case this isn’t true for you, then you shouldn’t have crafted it. That the MF stat would be deleted was known a while before the Celestial set has been introduced. So you have knowingly crafted a “pointless” set then…

Given the fact that nobody forced you to craft it, I don’t think it’s ANet’s job to make up for your loss. You didn’t lose offensive nor defensive stats, so why should you gain them in exchange for a luxury stat?

EDIT: @ExtraCosmic:
I don’t know the calculation ANet used for the Celestial stats and if they took the removal of MF into consideration… Still I understand your point, but I guess that raising the stats of Celestial gear would result in the Celestial gear ending up as a go-to set, maybe even OP. The suggestion with gold find would be an option though. Or as someone said above, some cosmetical effect to it – shiny!!!

Give me a case where the Celestial set is ‘the go-to’ for elementalists, if it has no MF…

They need to either offer a full refund on the set, or add SOMETHING to make it still worth using.

Yes, we knew MF was all disappearing off most gear (not all), but we expected refunds, options, new stats, etc, not the finger from Anet.

Avatara.1042:

Give me a case where the Celestial set is ‘the go-to’ for elementalists, if it has no MF…

When reading my post again, I already mentioned what I use the set for. If you don’t find a purpose for the set, that’s your own fault. You crafted the set without seing another purpose than using it as a MF set and assumed that ANet would offer a refund to you. Most of us assumed, that with the celestial gear that won’t be the case.

Avatara.1042:

They need to either offer a full refund on the set, or add SOMETHING to make it still worth using.

They don’t need to do anything – reason:

Avatara.1042:

Yes, we knew MF was all disappearing off most gear (not all), but we expected refunds, options, new stats, etc, not the finger from Anet.

I don’t know where you took the “most” from though. The following has already been posted in July – I’m quite sure there are even earlier posts stating the same:

Account Magic Find

We want to remove the choice players are currently being forced to make on their gear: “Do I go with better stats, or better loot?” This isn’t in the spirit of cooperation that Guild Wars 2 is all about. As such, we’ll be removing magic find entirely as an item stat and turning it into account stat that improved the odds of rare drops for all your characters. (https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/looking-ahead-guild-wars-2-in-2013/)

You are getting refunds for sets, that are totally aiming at MF -> Traveler, Explorer, Wayfarer. You can choose new stats for those.

Due to Celestial aiming at different stats equally, they don’t offer refunds for those. If they still decide to do so, lucky you, but still it is their decision to do so and can be considered “goodwill” from their side then.

They also said in some dev post that people would have been compensated for that removal – i can’t find that exact post, but i’ve found others who referred about said compensation. And while they’re doing so with explorers and such, celestials are just being nerfed with no compensation.
And then they also introduced all the armors and weapons while people still trusted them about the aforemented compensation.
So, more than a “goodwill”, we should talk about not lying to the userbase.

Rayti, you never gave a situation where you would want Celestial over something else. Also, if you ever say something like ‘no one forced you to craft it, it is not Anet’s fault they are nerfing it’ again, I will put you on ignore.

Manuhell.2759:

They also said in some dev post that people would have been compensated for that removal – i can’t find that exact post, but i’ve found others who referred about said compensation. And while they’re doing so with explorers and such, celestials are just being nerfed with no compensation.
And then they also introduced all the armors and weapons while people still trusted them about the aforemented compensation.
So, more than a “goodwill”, we should talk about not lying to the userbase.

Exactly.

The set became barely useable due to the MF, compensating for the extreme lack of focus. The MF was what tipped most people who made the set into using it, and the future compensation when the MF was removed.

Would we have made the set if we had known that the MF would be removed, and no compensation given? No.

I have to be honest, I can only conclude that crafting an entire time-gated exotic set for the purpose of MF is a very bad investment.

Now that MF is going, what is left is a very niche armor set, which to me it was from the very start. However, as MF was not the original purpose of the set and that the stat totals are still very high without it, I can understand Anet’s decision not to compensate.

“Lying to the userbase” is a bit overdone, thinking of them never having specified how they intended to compensate for which specific piece containing MF.

To me the effort they put into refunds for the MF exotics is even more they needed to do and therefore a positive surprise (especially because it is not just “one-click” implementing that).

Officially they wouldn’t even need to do that, when reading through the Legal Documentation once again (we agreed to all of that written there when first logging in) – so I’m again pointing out the word “goodwill”.

Offering the possibility to choose new stats for all the MF sets is a compensation. Taking away MF from an all-stat set is no nerf to it, it is still an all-stat set, but without a stat they totally removed from armor. You get your MF elsewhere so it doesn’t make any difference.

@Evans: exactly.

The MF was great for this latest Living Story :P

The set is now viable for maybe 1 build of 1 profession.

Don’t worry, people who don’t know kitten about game mechanics and can’t be bothered to l2p will still wear it because “it haz more stats!!11”; completely ignoring that most of them are either unneccessary in pve (toughness, vit), don’t work together for the majority of builds (power(condition damage) or scale horribly (healing). Not to mention that stuff like power/precision/crit damage don’t scale linearly together anyway (1 point in power gets more valuable with more precision/crit and vice versa).

Celestial is good if you mix it with condition damage builds that use hybrid weapons . Prime example would be shortbow ranger .

Why don’t add 1% boon duration + 1% condition duration?

Profano.9514:

Why don’t add 1% boon duration + 1% condition duration?

Why would they replace an non-combat stat with a combat stat?

Chokolata.1870:

Celestial is good if you mix it with condition damage builds that use hybrid weapons . Prime example would be shortbow ranger .

Pets do not inherit stats, so what will all the toughness and vitality of Celestial gear really do?

Alchemist.7523:

Profano.9514:

Why don’t add 1% boon duration + 1% condition duration?

Why would they replace an non-combat stat with a combat stat?

Because they do the same with the other gear which have MF on it ?

Yes yes, vitality and toughness are generally frowned upon because everyone is so perfect that they never get hit or swamped by enemies right?

Not everyone is part of the glorious permadodge club.

Terrahero.9358:

Celestial already has a significant stat advantage on other pieces of gear.

Celestial chest has 270 flat stats, 3% mf and 6% critdamage.
Berserker chest has 173 flat stats, no mf and 5% critdamage.

Celestial has 156% the flat stats of non-Celestial gear, aswell as an extra 1% critdamage and 3% magicfind.
We see similar ratio’s across the board on other pieces of gear.

Celestial has more then enough compensation. Boosting its flat stats even further just because MF is removed would just be uncalled for.

Celestial needs the compensation. That compensation is the trade off for not having a strong stat in any area.

To all those who are arguing that removing MF won’t change the combat efficiency, I suppose that they don’t have to do anything to the non-celestial MF gear either because its combat efficiency won’t be changed by its removal. Your logic is flawed.

Evans.6347:

Yes yes, vitality and toughness are generally frowned upon because everyone is so perfect that they never get hit or swamped by enemies right?

Not everyone is part of the glorious permadodge club.

Um…the pet takes the hits and you are at range…

Alchemist.7523:

Profano.9514:

Why don’t add 1% boon duration + 1% condition duration?

Why would they replace an non-combat stat with a combat stat?

Because it still accounted for the balancing of the item when they created the celestial prefix, back in november.
And because they’re doing the same with all the other magic find equips – by making people change them into other craftable stats. Instead of just removing it.

I’m not going to pursue this any further but what I meant was that any player, yes even a ranger, must be an incredibly talented person if they never get hit. At all. Never.

Aside from that I’m just discussing for the sake of it. I’ve found Celestial gear worthless since it was released.

Evans.6347:

I’m not going to pursue this any further but what I meant was that any player, yes even a ranger, must be an incredibly talented person if they never get hit. At all. Never.

Aside from that I’m just discussing for the sake of it. I’ve found Celestial gear worthless since it was released.

Of course they are going to get hit, but nowhere enough to make Celestial worth it. That is the problem with Celestial in general: no one uses all of those stats equally enough to make the set any good. Only the MF made it useful.

Odinsfury.8360:

Terrahero.9358:

Celestial already has a significant stat advantage on other pieces of gear.

Celestial chest has 270 flat stats, 3% mf and 6% critdamage.
Berserker chest has 173 flat stats, no mf and 5% critdamage.

Celestial has 156% the flat stats of non-Celestial gear, aswell as an extra 1% critdamage and 3% magicfind.
We see similar ratio’s across the board on other pieces of gear.

Celestial has more then enough compensation. Boosting its flat stats even further just because MF is removed would just be uncalled for.

Celestial needs the compensation. That compensation is the trade off for not having a strong stat in any area.

To all those who are arguing that removing MF won’t change the combat efficiency, I suppose that they don’t have to do anything to the non-celestial MF gear either because its combat efficiency won’t be changed by its removal. Your logic is flawed.

Your logic is flawed too, asking for compensation for an all-stat gear not being strong in any area. It compensates this by having all stats and as for “not having a strong stat in any area” -> it has the strongest crit DMG stat among all exotic gear sets (even though it’s just 3% as far as I know).

Rayti.6531:

Your logic is flawed too, asking for compensation for an all-stat gear not being strong in any area. It compensates this by having all stats and as for “not having a strong stat in any area” -> it has the strongest crit DMG stat among all exotic gear sets (even though it’s just 3% as far as I know).

And critical damage depends on both power and precision, being a multiplicative modifier. As you will do less damage (having less power) and with less chance to do it (having less precision), they had balanced it giving a bit more critical damage.
And i’ll repeat another time, they balanced it with having magic find as well. Removing it makes the equip subpar, exactly as it happens with explorer and such things (and that’s why they’re replacing them entirely).

Highest crit damage does not mean anything without the power and precision to back it up.

There is also Celestial gear that was NOT crafted, remember. That stuff took a hit as well, and most of it was acquirable before Anet announced the MF removal.

Should the people who have this stuff also suffer, when MF was clearly there as stat for them to see and add to their decision on whether to get these items?

Manuhell.2759:

Because it still accounted for the balancing of the item when they created the celestial prefix, back in november.

Do you have a source that backs this up? All gear except celestial uses a common balance formula while celestial has an entirely unique balance formula. Without another stat set using the same formula as celestial for comparison, it is impossible to say definitively that MF is part of the balance. Has A-Net confirmed this somewhere?

Short of a confirmation, we can only speculate. And since A-Net is not planning to adjust celestial stats, the most rational conclusion is that MF was not considered when the celestial stat was originally balanced.

GoddessHrist.8472:

Manuhell.2759:

Because it still accounted for the balancing of the item when they created the celestial prefix, back in november.

Do you have a source that backs this up? All gear except celestial uses a common balance formula while celestial has an entirely unique balance formula. Without another stat set using the same formula as celestial for comparison, it is impossible to say definitively that MF is part of the balance. Has A-Net confirmed this somewhere?

Short of a confirmation, we can only speculate. And since A-Net is not planning to adjust celestial stats, the most rational conclusion is that MF was not considered when the celestial stat was originally balanced.

Celestial gear was acquired on the basis that it had MF. That us all that matters. If that MF is removed, then Anet need to compensate people somehow. Optional refunds, or new stat distribution are two options.

Avatara.1042:

GoddessHrist.8472:

Manuhell.2759:

Because it still accounted for the balancing of the item when they created the celestial prefix, back in november.

Do you have a source that backs this up? All gear except celestial uses a common balance formula while celestial has an entirely unique balance formula. Without another stat set using the same formula as celestial for comparison, it is impossible to say definitively that MF is part of the balance. Has A-Net confirmed this somewhere?

Short of a confirmation, we can only speculate. And since A-Net is not planning to adjust celestial stats, the most rational conclusion is that MF was not considered when the celestial stat was originally balanced.

Celestial gear was acquired on the basis that it had MF. That us all that matters. If that MF is removed, then Anet need to compensate people somehow. Optional refunds, or new stat distribution are two options.

I am sorry .. need to? NEED to? They don’t NEED anything, you know that little thing that says ‘’This is an Online game and experience my change’’ , legal hey can even make Celestial gear give you 0 stats and they won’t NEED to do anything.

They should do something maybe, I still see celestial quite balanced. If they add extra Stats it will make celestial too combat efficient. !

Avatara.1042:

Highest crit damage does not mean anything without the power and precision to back it up.

My power necromancer gets +50% critical chance when in either DS or Lich Form. Add in a warrior standard and that’s over 100% critical chance. I do not need more precision.
My power necromancer also inflicts multiple conditions on merit of simply being a necromancer. I can inflict multiple bleeds, poison and torment in an AoE. In a fight with multiple enemies that makes up for the loss in power as far as damage is concerned. In a boss fight I use lich form anyway, making the difference in damage minimal.
My necromancer also scales twice as much as any other class from vitality due to deathshroud. She also scales 2-3 times as much as other classes with toughness, due to highest hp pool + deathshroud + tons of heals.
Speaking of heals, Both focus4 and Blood Well scale exceptionally nice with healing power.

So, to all the naysayers: can you make a proper arguement on why I should not be using celestial?

GoddessHrist.8472:

Manuhell.2759:

Because it still accounted for the balancing of the item when they created the celestial prefix, back in november.

Do you have a source that backs this up? All gear except celestial uses a common balance formula while celestial has an entirely unique balance formula. Without another stat set using the same formula as celestial for comparison, it is impossible to say definitively that MF is part of the balance. Has A-Net confirmed this somewhere?

Short of a confirmation, we can only speculate. And since A-Net is not planning to adjust celestial stats, the most rational conclusion is that MF was not considered when the celestial stat was originally balanced.

Either they put the stats at random or they balanced them all. And if they didn’t account magic find into the balance, thus knowing in advance they would have just nerfed it, why didn’t they tell that before, dunno, introducing all the celestial armors and weapons -something they did just a month ago? Cause people wouldn’t have crafted them, thus spending materials and gold for naught?
So, are you perhaps saying they lied about the compensation and all the armor/weapon crafting was a way to scam the players?

Rayti.6531:

They don’t need to do anything – reason:

Avatara.1042:

Yes, we knew MF was all disappearing off most gear (not all), but we expected refunds, options, new stats, etc, not the finger from Anet.

I don’t know where you took the “most” from though. The following has already been posted in July – I’m quite sure there are even earlier posts stating the same:

Account Magic Find

We want to remove the choice players are currently being forced to make on their gear: “Do I go with better stats, or better loot?” This isn’t in the spirit of cooperation that Guild Wars 2 is all about. As such, we’ll be removing magic find entirely as an item stat and turning it into account stat that improved the odds of rare drops for all your characters. (https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/looking-ahead-guild-wars-2-in-2013/)

You’re absolutely right, but the ascended celestial amulets have been introduced in january (https://www.guildwars2.com/en/the-game/releases/january-2013/) and the rings even before that. People have spent laurels on those because of MF, and back then we had no way to know MF was to be trashed.
It would really be nice if they gave us the choice for a reroll, at least of ascended trinkets.
I really can’t understand why people are so angrily against a possible reroll: the ones who want to keep items in the new version will choose celestial and the other people will choose something else, what’s so bad about it?

Odinsfury.8360:

Terrahero.9358:

Celestial already has a significant stat advantage on other pieces of gear.

Celestial chest has 270 flat stats, 3% mf and 6% critdamage.
Berserker chest has 173 flat stats, no mf and 5% critdamage.

Celestial has 156% the flat stats of non-Celestial gear, aswell as an extra 1% critdamage and 3% magicfind.
We see similar ratio’s across the board on other pieces of gear.

Celestial has more then enough compensation. Boosting its flat stats even further just because MF is removed would just be uncalled for.

Celestial needs the compensation. That compensation is the trade off for not having a strong stat in any area.

To all those who are arguing that removing MF won’t change the combat efficiency, I suppose that they don’t have to do anything to the non-celestial MF gear either because its combat efficiency won’t be changed by its removal. Your logic is flawed.

And that compensation is that you get a COMBAT statbudget that is 60% larger then any other type.
You are losing a luxery stat, not a combat stat. Why should you be made stronger because you’re drops got nerfed?

Avatara.1042:

If they are not going to compensate for the loss of MF, then they need to give the option to completely refund the mats, sigils, runes, and transmutation items. Because Celestial just became pointless.

No Celestial was and still is one of the best choices for different situations such as Guardian frontliner in WvW (as someone pointed out, people in RG use it). In fact considering I use a mixture of zerk/knight/soldier I am considering getting celestial ascended armor when it comes out!

It’s also great on Elementalists for anything other than bidimensional zerker speedruns.

PMilkos.9103:

Avatara.1042:

Highest crit damage does not mean anything without the power and precision to back it up.

My power necromancer gets +50% critical chance when in either DS or Lich Form. Add in a warrior standard and that’s over 100% critical chance. I do not need more precision.
My power necromancer also inflicts multiple conditions on merit of simply being a necromancer. I can inflict multiple bleeds, poison and torment in an AoE. In a fight with multiple enemies that makes up for the loss in power as far as damage is concerned. In a boss fight I use lich form anyway, making the difference in damage minimal.
My necromancer also scales twice as much as any other class from vitality due to deathshroud. She also scales 2-3 times as much as other classes with toughness, due to highest hp pool + deathshroud + tons of heals.
Speaking of heals, Both axe4 and Blood Well scale exceptionally nice with healing power.

So, to all the naysayers: can you make a proper arguement on why I should not be using celestial?

Not sure why you added in a warrior banner, axe 4 does not actually exist, lich-form does not help your argument, and necros scale horribly bad with healing power. That said…

It looks like Celestial armour and weapons, with Berserker trinkets, is currently regarded as near-equal to the traditional berserker/valk or whatever combination for power necros. It all depends on how much you can stay in Death Shroud. At least, that is what I could ascertain. Maybe something new came up, as no one seems to talk about Celestial gear on the necro forums now.

So yes, you did have a build that can actually use the gear. Not better than the traditional gear, but at least it works. But for us people who do not have power necros, or bought the Celestial trinkets (which suck even for necros), we are completely shafted.

Therefore Anet needs to GIVE PEOPLE AN OPTIONAL REFUND.

Wolfheart.1938:

Avatara.1042:

If they are not going to compensate for the loss of MF, then they need to give the option to completely refund the mats, sigils, runes, and transmutation items. Because Celestial just became pointless.

No Celestial was and still is one of the best choices for different situations such as Guardian frontliner in WvW (as someone pointed out, people in RG use it). In fact considering I use a mixture of zerk/knight/soldier I am considering getting celestial ascended armor when it comes out!

It’s also great on Elementalists for anything other than bidimensional zerker speedruns.

It is not great for Elementalists. The condition damage is minor, and eles do not apply enough passive condition damage. Toughness scales very poorly due to them having the lowest health, as well.

The only reason you would take the set is because the MF and versatility made it fun to use. It was never optimal for anything.

As for Guardians, I have only seen guards say to do not use it. I will have to check into this more.