Guild Wars 2

Please tell me the revamped Tequatl fight isn’t what Chris Whiteside meant when he said they were working on ‘Guild Wars 2 style raids’.

The dragon revamps are needed but they definitely do not replace instanced raids. Guild Wars 2 needs raids, some difficult instanced content with to provide some sort of progression and overarching goals to work towards in PVE.

Tequatl almost got downed by a bunch of random strangers with unoptimized builds. It will most likely get downed when it first spawns with little to no communication.

Can a dev please confirm whether Tequatl’s revamp was what Chris Whiteside was referring to when he said Guild Wars 2 style raids?

He wasn’t almost downed by any of those teams naturally. ANet helped the third group get his health lower than 25%.

Without ANet’s help, they probably would have struggled to get him to 75% like the rest of the groups that day.

Anyway, I’m not sure if this is their answers to raids or not, but in a recent interview with Colin, he pretty much said that it was very unlikely they’d raise dungeons above 5 people because they felt it was the right number for co-ordination and not having to look for a bunch of people to start.

Whether his attitude towards dungeons applies to all instances, I don’t know.

I think guild wars 2 style raids fall more along the lines of difficult event chains. Like Balthazar. Not only do you need a ton of people to complete this, even a zerg can have a hard time succeeding if there is no communication. The only difference is, you don’t have to instance to do it. Moreover, with proper planning and communication the chance of success goes up exponentially. The really great thing about this system is that participation is open to everyone and the fact that completing it changes the environment for everyone on that server is the real reward.

Now, as it stands currently, things in this system are not perfect and they can be vastly improved. BUT, the potential for events of this style that are VASTLY superior to raids is a very real thing. And i would bet that this is what ANET is working on. Remember, this MMO is absolutely breaking new ground in this type of area and the ride can be a bit bumpy at times.

Take moment and imagine something with me… There is a new area available in the game. At the heart of this area lies “XYZ_BOSS”. Said boss guards a giant chest which contains a specific item needed to, i dunno, craft precursors or something, whatever. We all want to get to that chest. Problem is, we can’t because the area is overrun with the bosses minions and champs and its locked up tighter than a frog’s butt. We have to unlock the area, fight our way to the bosses lair, and get that kitten chest… /map goes out for a call to arms. Use LFG Tool to start forming groups, Put “XYZ” into group name to designate which commander you will platoon with… See where I’m going with this?

TLDR: Anet’s got something up their sleeve.

Op, may I suggest that you take another look at the videos circulating out there. From the number that I’ve seen, not one encounter was done without Dev assistance. In fact, I don’t think I saw a video that had the players get Teq down to about 85-80% without the Dev stepping in.
Keep in mind these events were a showcase for all the new abilities and challenges that Tequatl 2.0 will have. It’s kind of pointless to have a number of PUG zergs get beaten within the 15 minute window over and over without a Dev assist.
That does not generate buzz.

Sure, eventually the mechanics of the dragon will become known and players will organize to make the event seem much easier. I think you are giving the player Zerg mentality far too much credit when this launches ‘out of the box’.

I would say likely. But they could add something like a guild mission that would be tied to something like this. It would still be in the open world though. As they have no plans to increase instanced play to larger then 5 players at this time.
http://youtu.be/Jy7CcwnfUdU?t=18m2s

Ace.1726:

Please tell me the revamped Tequatl fight isn’t what Chris Whiteside meant when he said they were working on ‘Guild Wars 2 style raids’.

The dragon revamps are needed but they definitely do not replace instanced raids. Guild Wars 2 needs raids, some difficult instanced content with to provide some sort of progression and overarching goals to work towards in PVE.

Tequatl almost got downed by a bunch of random strangers with unoptimized builds. It will most likely get downed when it first spawns with little to no communication.

Can a dev please confirm whether Tequatl’s revamp was what Chris Whiteside was referring to when he said Guild Wars 2 style raids?

A) Yes, it is indeed GW2’s version of “Raids”. Because it’s much more inclusive than those in other games that lock out fractions of guilds and players alike. Those also cause drama conflicts with community (internally within guilds and externally with pugs and the like).

B) This game needs no “instanced raids”. Besides the reasons given in A, there’s also just the reason that it disconnects from the game’s world. They’re trying to reconnect players with the game’s world with each update they do; this is why much of the Living Story arches have pieces that require trekking into all sorts of zones and areas across Tyria.

C) One of the reasons that Trinity play was off the table for this game was because they were trying to do their own thing. GW2 is about being something different than standard MMO tropes that exist in every other game out there. “Instanced raids set for specific group numbers challenged by coordination for that number (no more, no less)” would be one of the biggest tropes since EQ#1.

Surely this can’t be it when they mean raids. Essentially Tequatl is a dps test, nothing like a what a real raid is.

Guild Wars 2 needs more exclusive content, something not everyone can do. Right now there is no reason to be good at your class everything is so easy in the game all you have to do is use zerker gear and auto attack essentially.

MattVisual mentions on GuildCast that Tequatl was what Arenanet meant when they said Guild Wars 2 style raids, I’m hoping he’s wrong but I had an inkling that was the case even before.

Can a dev confirm or deny this? Are Arenanet working on actual raids?

Ace.1726:

Surely this can’t be it when they mean raids. Essentially Tequatl is a dps test, nothing like a what a real raid is.

Guild Wars 2 needs more exclusive content, something not everyone can do. Right now there is no reason to be good at your class everything is so easy in the game all you have to do is use zerker gear and auto attack essentially.

MattVisual mentions on GuildCast that Tequatl was what Arenanet meant when they said Guild Wars 2 style raids, I’m hoping he’s wrong but I had an inkling that was the case even before.

Can a dev confirm or deny this? Are Arenanet working on actual raids?

A dps test? Really? Go back and watch the videos again, and pay attention this time. Those who treat it as a dps test will be the cause of many failures.

Guild Wars 2 needs more exclusive content, something not everyone can do.

Ummm…

Ace.1726:

Surely this can’t be it when they mean raids. Essentially Tequatl is a dps test, nothing like a what a real raid is.

Guild Wars 2 needs more exclusive content, something not everyone can do. Right now there is no reason to be good at your class everything is so easy in the game all you have to do is use zerker gear and auto attack essentially.

MattVisual mentions on GuildCast that Tequatl was what Arenanet meant when they said Guild Wars 2 style raids, I’m hoping he’s wrong but I had an inkling that was the case even before.

Can a dev confirm or deny this? Are Arenanet working on actual raids?

No. Just No. This game does not need content that locks out a part of the playerbase, in fact this game was built on the idea of not doing that.

Ace.1726:

Surely this can’t be it when they mean raids. Essentially Tequatl is a dps test, nothing like a what a real raid is.

Guild Wars 2 needs more exclusive content, something not everyone can do. Right now there is no reason to be good at your class everything is so easy in the game all you have to do is use zerker gear and auto attack essentially.

MattVisual mentions on GuildCast that Tequatl was what Arenanet meant when they said Guild Wars 2 style raids, I’m hoping he’s wrong but I had an inkling that was the case even before.

Can a dev confirm or deny this? Are Arenanet working on actual raids?

You clearly have a lack of understanding of the fundamental design of GW2. The game is all about inclusivity based on shared mob tagging, individual resource nods, dynamic even quest sharing, and even events that boost player level to 80 to include lower levels in said events. Based on that fundamental design of trying to include everyone in everything, it would be completely counterproductive to that design to include “exclusive content, something not everyone can do”.

That’s not to say that GW2 hasn’t already introduced certain content types that not everyone can do, but that’s parallel to certain content of the same type that is possible to all. I’m of course talking about the Queen’s Gauntlet and SAB Tribulation Mode. However, these are more individual skill challenges that aren’t locked like raids; traditional raids are locked by group size, specific gear, specific specs, time, and many other trivial things that the player has no control over.

Now, I’m going to dispute your claim of “Tequatl is a dps test”, because it’s clear that you have no idea of the new TeQuatl (why do people not watch content before discussing it, such as the PAX Live Stream provided?!). The fight itself includes multiple modes and many elements to it that I’ll try to explain below.

• 1) The first key element is that TeQuatl stacks a type of boon that needs to be removed by the Hylek gun mounts; neglecting to do so will put up bone walls that’ll need destroyed before any damage on TeQuatl can continue.

• 2) The next key element -still related to the Hylek guns- is that TeQuatl drops poison pools around the area near him that need cleaned up. These pools of poison will kill your allies rather quickly if they stand it in, so it’s vital to survival of all those doing the DPS on the creature itself.

• 3) Undead mobs, including vets and normal, spawn in to continually attack the Hylek guns. This means that there has to be defenders to protect the guns from being destroyed or the gunners killed (both negatively effecting #1 and #2 above). This would require healers such as Guardians, Engineers, or possibly Elementalists just to keep the gunners alive.

• 4) Once a certain threshold of HP is reached (75%, I think), the fight will transition to one that is defending 5 different generators from suicide bombing undead. The generators power the massive Asura cannon that’s used to shoot TeQuatl during the fight. Failure to defend the generators results in failed event, so this requires good group coordination instead of clustering.

• 5) During the entire long fight, TeQuatl creates tidal waves that start out small but gradually become immense in size. The first few can be jumped over, but towards the remainder of the fight they cannot be jumped or dodged. Instead players have to pay attention to these and head over to jump pads located near by and time a jump that’ll push them into the sky above the wave as it passes. A requirement of timing and attentiveness to avoid dying.

• 6) At random intervals players will be “sunk” into the swamp below TeQuatl. Normally players cannot drown in this game, but this swamp is poisoned by the Dragon Lieutenant so players can drown here. Swimming as quickly as possible to the top is the only way to resurface back into the fight with the rest of the allies.

I know I might be missing something -possibly something with the fingers?- but that’s the gist of the fight. Oh, and the whole thing is timed. It’s more of a ‘raid’ than many other games raids are. Just because it’s not artificially locking out players, requiring some arbitrary key, or put on a weekly timer doesn’t make it any less of a raid. Inclusivity is key to this game, get used to it.

No. Just No. This game does not need content that locks out a part of the playerbase, in fact this game was built on the idea of not doing that.

This^^

Inclusivity is key to this game, get used to it.

and this^^

This game is slanted way too much towards the casual side. There needs to be a balance, right now there is nothing for hardcore players and guilds to do while every two weeks casual players get an update.

The Tequatl revamp is fine, but don’t call it a raid when it clearly isn’t.

Shemsu.8721:

Ace.1726:

Surely this can’t be it when they mean raids. Essentially Tequatl is a dps test, nothing like a what a real raid is.

Guild Wars 2 needs more exclusive content, something not everyone can do. Right now there is no reason to be good at your class everything is so easy in the game all you have to do is use zerker gear and auto attack essentially.

MattVisual mentions on GuildCast that Tequatl was what Arenanet meant when they said Guild Wars 2 style raids, I’m hoping he’s wrong but I had an inkling that was the case even before.

Can a dev confirm or deny this? Are Arenanet working on actual raids?

No. Just No. This game does not need content that locks out a part of the playerbase, in fact this game was built on the idea of not doing that.

But we all know how closely they’ve stuck to THAT ethos for the game

Lonesamurai.4852:

Shemsu.8721:

Ace.1726:

Surely this can’t be it when they mean raids. Essentially Tequatl is a dps test, nothing like a what a real raid is.

Guild Wars 2 needs more exclusive content, something not everyone can do. Right now there is no reason to be good at your class everything is so easy in the game all you have to do is use zerker gear and auto attack essentially.

MattVisual mentions on GuildCast that Tequatl was what Arenanet meant when they said Guild Wars 2 style raids, I’m hoping he’s wrong but I had an inkling that was the case even before.

Can a dev confirm or deny this? Are Arenanet working on actual raids?

No. Just No. This game does not need content that locks out a part of the playerbase, in fact this game was built on the idea of not doing that.

But we all know how closely they’ve stuck to THAT ethos for the game

Actually I think they’ve done a good job of creating content and systems that doesnt lock out players. The only thing that comes close is high level fractals are gear gated, however one can experience the content and low lvl fractals without any gear reqs, and the early agony at 10+ can be healed through, so it takes very little to even get to the lvl 20 range. So far nobody is kept out of any content, I’d like to see it stay that way

Instanced raids are trademark of WoW. I know plenty of games that have raids in open world, like Lineage 2 i.e.. If OP wants gw2 to be like wow, with instanced raids and gear progression/treadmill why doesn’t he say so. If that is case indeed, wow is that way…—→>

The GW1 people and soloers hold the game back. The GW1 people would totally flip their lid if a raid was put in the game. They would all be screaming about the game becoming like WoW.

Therefore, there will be no instanced raid. I am completely shocked that there is gear progression, but so far they have ignored the constant protests of the GW1 people on that.

timidobserver.7925:

The GW1 people and soloers hold the game back. The GW1 people would totally flip their lid if a raid was put in the game. They would all be screaming about the game becoming like WoW.

Therefore, there will be no instanced raid. I am completely shocked that there is gear progression, but so far they have ignored the constant protests of the GW1 people on that.

Quite the opposite, I’d like raiding, its actually one of the WoW things I genuinely liked

Back in GW1, Underworld and DoA always seemed perfect for raid areas, maybe in GW2?

What positives would raids bring to this game? I’m honestly drawing a blank. There’s, afaik, no good reason to implement instanced wow-style gearcheck tiered raids. There’s a game for that already, and they’ve mastered it.

marnick.4305:

What positives would raids bring to this game? I’m honestly drawing a blank. There’s, afaik, no good reason to implement instanced wow-style gearcheck tiered raids. There’s a game for that already, and they’ve mastered it.

Thats the thing, in WoW its the PLAYERS that gear check, the gear iLvL is the games way and the dungeon gear is the right iLvL for the LFR system, the LFR gear drops are good enough for full raiding, its the PLAYERS that push

timidobserver.7925:

The GW1 people and soloers hold the game back. The GW1 people would totally flip their lid if a raid was put in the game. They would all be screaming about the game becoming like WoW.

Therefore, there will be no instanced raid. I am completely shocked that there is gear progression, but so far they have ignored the constant protests of the GW1 people on that.

I would first note that we would not necessarily ‘flip our lids’ if a raid was intoduced, especially like Tequatl is being implemented. Some might even be OK with more traditional raids. GW2, however, is trying break new ground in that kind of area. You lump all GW1 players and soloers together and then act as though they are a tiny minority that the game is only trying to cater to, which simply isn’t accurate.

I also notice that in the first paragraph you just say ‘raids,’ whereas you later add instanced in front of it.

I think this is awesome, and a huge step in the right direction!

A multilayer complex fight, that doesn’t require the BS that go’s along with WoW style raids. Mainly being, spending X hours at X time or letting your guild down. The having exactly right amount of guildys on at that time.

DeShadowWolf.6854:

timidobserver.7925:

The GW1 people and soloers hold the game back. The GW1 people would totally flip their lid if a raid was put in the game. They would all be screaming about the game becoming like WoW.

Therefore, there will be no instanced raid. I am completely shocked that there is gear progression, but so far they have ignored the constant protests of the GW1 people on that.

I would first note that we would not necessarily ‘flip our lids’ if a raid was intoduced, especially like Tequatl is being implemented. Some might even be OK with more traditional raids. GW2, however, is trying break new ground in that kind of area. You lump all GW1 players and soloers together and then act as though they are a tiny minority that the game is only trying to cater to, which simply isn’t accurate.

I also notice that in the first paragraph you just say ‘raids,’ whereas you later add instanced in front of it.

Yeh I was referring to instanced raids if context clues from the OP of the thread I am responding to and from my post didn’t get that point across. Though Tequatl, not matter what they do to him, doesn’t qualify as a raid. A raid boss maybe, but not a raid.

Didn’t really say anything about the size of GW1 community, so I don’t know where that came from.

Yeh, regardless, I expect that a full traditional raid would not go over with the GW1 community or at least most of it.

Lonesamurai.4852:

marnick.4305:

What positives would raids bring to this game? I’m honestly drawing a blank. There’s, afaik, no good reason to implement instanced wow-style gearcheck tiered raids. There’s a game for that already, and they’ve mastered it.

Thats the thing, in WoW its the PLAYERS that gear check, the gear iLvL is the games way and the dungeon gear is the right iLvL for the LFR system, the LFR gear drops are good enough for full raiding, its the PLAYERS that push

Whether it’s system imposed or player pushed is not relevant. At the end of the line, a gear check is done, which is an ugly thing for a game which most healthy people can only play for 2 hours a day, if at all.

The only place in GW2 where gear is an issue, is high level fractals, which doesn’t content gate anyone who chooses not to do it. On the other hand, I never saw the Lich King. Couldn’t. I have too much of a life to grind out the gear.

And yet that’s what raiding seems to imply time and time again … increased gear stats. I simply can’t agree to something like that in this game. People bought GW2 for flat stats and horizontal progression. Please let this kind of bad raiding stay in the games I don’t play anymore, exactly because of the raiding.

marnick.4305:

Lonesamurai.4852:

marnick.4305:

What positives would raids bring to this game? I’m honestly drawing a blank. There’s, afaik, no good reason to implement instanced wow-style gearcheck tiered raids. There’s a game for that already, and they’ve mastered it.

Thats the thing, in WoW its the PLAYERS that gear check, the gear iLvL is the games way and the dungeon gear is the right iLvL for the LFR system, the LFR gear drops are good enough for full raiding, its the PLAYERS that push

Whether it’s system imposed or player pushed is not relevant. At the end of the line, a gear check is done, which is an ugly thing for a game which most healthy people can only play for 2 hours a day, if at all.

The only place in GW2 where gear is an issue, is high level fractals, which doesn’t content gate anyone who chooses not to do it. On the other hand, I never saw the Lich King. Couldn’t. I have too much of a life to grind out the gear.

And yet that’s what raiding seems to imply time and time again … increased gear stats. I simply can’t agree to something like that in this game. People bought GW2 for flat stats and horizontal progression. Please let this kind of bad raiding stay in the games I don’t play anymore, exactly because of the raiding.

No, a gearcheck by the system it part of whether you are ready for that content as gear (in a WoW context) is another leveling tool, that helps determine if you are ready for the next tier of dungeon/raid content for your lvl

Item level (often abbreviated as ilevel or simply ilvl) is a rather important property of every item. It has two main functions — to reflect the item’s usefulness and at the same time determine the minimum level a character must have in order to use it.

Item level serves as a rough indicator of the power and usefulness of an item, designed to reflect the overall benefit of using the item. Two items of equal ilvl should in theory therefore be of equal potential use. However, each item spends its ilvl ‘budget’ differently, in various primary and secondary stats, as well as in procs and effects. Since each of these values provide different benefits to different classes and specs, the true value of an item varies depending on the user, and cannot be determined solely by ilvl. Additionally, PvP Power is not counted towards an item’s ilvl budget, allowing PvP gear of a given ilvl to provide an advantage in PvP compared to non-PvP gear of the same ilvl.

Item level is widely used as a means of assessing a character’s power. Ilvl is used as a gating requirement when queueing for dungeons, raids and scenarios, and is often used in a similar way by players organising raids.

Individual items’ item levels can be found in their tooltips. Each character’s average ilvl can be found in the character sheet.

Hell, that explains it perfectly

timidobserver.7925:

DeShadowWolf.6854:

timidobserver.7925:

The GW1 people and soloers hold the game back. The GW1 people would totally flip their lid if a raid was put in the game. They would all be screaming about the game becoming like WoW.

Therefore, there will be no instanced raid. I am completely shocked that there is gear progression, but so far they have ignored the constant protests of the GW1 people on that.

I would first note that we would not necessarily ‘flip our lids’ if a raid was intoduced, especially like Tequatl is being implemented. Some might even be OK with more traditional raids. GW2, however, is trying break new ground in that kind of area. You lump all GW1 players and soloers together and then act as though they are a tiny minority that the game is only trying to cater to, which simply isn’t accurate.

I also notice that in the first paragraph you just say ‘raids,’ whereas you later add instanced in front of it.

Yeh I was referring to instanced raids if context clues from the OP of the thread I am responding to and from my post didn’t get that point across. Though Tequatl, not matter what they do to him, doesn’t qualify as a raid. A raid boss maybe, but not a raid.

Didn’t really say anything about the size of GW1 community, so I don’t know where that came from.

Yeh, regardless, I expect that a full traditional raid would not go over with the GW1 community or at least most of it.

Correction

I am a GW1 veteran and I would totally welcome instanced Raid content (not a fan of Fractals, but they are to a point)
Hell, Underworld and Domain of Anguish would be perfect for it