Tequatl and conditions...

Tequatl and conditions...

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Posted by: Conncept.7638

Conncept.7638

Lemme guess, a boss that requires nearly a hundred people is still going to only take twenty-five stacks of each condition.

A solid year, an entire section of stats still useless to most classes in most of the games content. And nine months of the developers, by all appearances, being completely uncaring.

Can we just please get a straight answer from someone at Arenanet as to the state of conditions? Is anything being done? On the system at large or in individual encounters? Did the previously mentioned fix fall through? Does anybody even bloody care!?

(edited by Conncept.7638)

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Posted by: Khisanth.2948

Khisanth.2948

Maybe this was covered in the preview but are you assuming they will still allow people to just ignore the adds?

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Posted by: Conncept.7638

Conncept.7638

Maybe this was covered in the preview but are you assuming they will still allow people to just ignore the adds?

No I am aware of the changes, but I don’t see what that even has to do with it, the boss is not the adds. If I want to be part of the group that goes toe-to-toe against Tequatl, why should I not be able to do so on equal footing with any other class and build?

This is a major flaw in the games very system that stretches over encounters in every single game mode. And it is seemingly being completely ignored in all newly added content.

(edited by Conncept.7638)

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Posted by: BoogerSammich.7189

BoogerSammich.7189

Maybe this was covered in the preview but are you assuming they will still allow people to just ignore the adds?

No I am aware of the changes, but I don’t see what that even has to do with it, the boss is not the adds. If I want to be part of the group that goes toe-to-toe against Tequatl, why should I not be able to do so on equal footing with any other class and build?

This is a major flaw in the games very system that stretches over encounters in every single game mode. And it is seemingly being completely ignored in all new content added.

While i agree that the current system is less than perfect, I wouldn’t say that it makes a whole set of stats worthless. You are pidgeon-holing yourself into thinking ONLY about DPS. But if you’re not playing a warrior, then then you should be thinking about other things as well. How about support? How about boon stripping? The classes in this game become the most powerful when we adapt and work together, not when we all butt heads and get in each other’s way. Im not trying to bash or flame or whatever, Im just saying that you can have a METRIC-kitten-TON of fun by playing other roles and end up being R9K times more useful and effective all at the same time.

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Posted by: Randulf.7614

Randulf.7614

Its not ignored, they’ve stated why many times. I know it sucks (having a condition toon myself), but its a major technical/bandwidth issue which cant just be solved at this time.

I agree it’s a flaw, but I suspect we wont see any changes until they can work round the stated technical limitations

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Posted by: Conncept.7638

Conncept.7638

Its not ignored, they’ve stated why many times. I know it sucks (having a condition toon myself), but its a major technical/bandwidth issue which cant just be solved at this time.

I agree it’s a flaw, but I suspect we wont see any changes until they can work round the stated technical limitations

Everybody knows why, like you said they’ve told us a dozen times. What matters is whether or not they are trying to fix it. Six months ago they reiterated the problem (yet again) and stated they had a fix they were working on, not a peep since.

THAT worries me, no offense to them but on the occasion ANet is doing something right they tend to make sure we know it. When they’re not, they tend to stay completely silent, as if they think we’ll forget or just drop it.

(edited by Conncept.7638)

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Posted by: KrisHQ.4719

KrisHQ.4719

I don’t really get what this thread is about..
Do this guy want conditions to stack higher than 25?
If so: lul.

Lysis Kawahara – D/D Elementalist
Zaphiel Faires – DPS Guardian

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Posted by: Conncept.7638

Conncept.7638

I don’t really get what this thread is about..
Do this guy want conditions to stack higher than 25?
If so: lul.

Thank-you for (not) reading, your insights are as useful as always.

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Posted by: Randulf.7614

Randulf.7614

The issue is that if a boss has 25 of a condition stacks on him, then a condition class cant do any more dps on that boss. Meta bosses are usually maxed on conditions stacked on them quickly.

The 2 suggestions have been more than 25 stacks or 25 per person. Both of which have so far been stated impossible due to bandwidth issues. At this time, we don’t know if a change will ever be added

Thats what this thread is about. It is a legitimate concern as it limits builds

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Posted by: RagingDragon.9475

RagingDragon.9475

They could look at doing something like:

Conditions have a 50% duration reduction on bosses. Meaning Conditions would need to be refreshed more often! So condition builds would not be tripping over each other. This would also help in dungeon’s where you have more that 1 condition build.

And then add that Conditions do something like 50% more damage – Would make up for less condition duration, while keeping their damage somewhat similar.

Commander Kane Ragingdragon
Knights of Ares [ARES] - Apply Now
Website: http://knights-of-ares.enjin.com/

(edited by RagingDragon.9475)

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Posted by: AlietteFaye.7316

AlietteFaye.7316

Maybe this was covered in the preview but are you assuming they will still allow people to just ignore the adds?

No I am aware of the changes, but I don’t see what that even has to do with it, the boss is not the adds. If I want to be part of the group that goes toe-to-toe against Tequatl, why should I not be able to do so on equal footing with any other class and build?

This is a major flaw in the games very system that stretches over encounters in every single game mode. And it is seemingly being completely ignored in all new content added.

While i agree that the current system is less than perfect, I wouldn’t say that it makes a whole set of stats worthless. You are pidgeon-holing yourself into thinking ONLY about DPS. But if you’re not playing a warrior, then then you should be thinking about other things as well. How about support? How about boon stripping? The classes in this game become the most powerful when we adapt and work together, not when we all butt heads and get in each other’s way. Im not trying to bash or flame or whatever, Im just saying that you can have a METRIC-kitten-TON of fun by playing other roles and end up being R9K times more useful and effective all at the same time.

Um… how is boon stripping affected by Condition Damage? That stat is definitely not going to help you do any that any better.. His point seems to remain strong that if you specced into CD you’re pretty useless in world boss fights because of the cap.

twitch.tv/aliettefaye

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Posted by: KrisHQ.4719

KrisHQ.4719

I don’t really get what this thread is about..
Do this guy want conditions to stack higher than 25?
If so: lul.

Thank-you for (not) reading, your insights are as useful as always.

I did read it though, but as I said; I don’t understand what the complaint is about.

Lysis Kawahara – D/D Elementalist
Zaphiel Faires – DPS Guardian

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Posted by: AlietteFaye.7316

AlietteFaye.7316

I don’t really get what this thread is about..
Do this guy want conditions to stack higher than 25?
If so: lul.

Thank-you for (not) reading, your insights are as useful as always.

I did read it though, but as I said; I don’t understand what the complaint is about.

That instead of fixing a main issue that a lot of players feel is incredibly bad, they revamped a world boss that will continue to push said issue?

twitch.tv/aliettefaye

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Posted by: BoogerSammich.7189

BoogerSammich.7189

Maybe this was covered in the preview but are you assuming they will still allow people to just ignore the adds?

No I am aware of the changes, but I don’t see what that even has to do with it, the boss is not the adds. If I want to be part of the group that goes toe-to-toe against Tequatl, why should I not be able to do so on equal footing with any other class and build?

This is a major flaw in the games very system that stretches over encounters in every single game mode. And it is seemingly being completely ignored in all new content added.

While i agree that the current system is less than perfect, I wouldn’t say that it makes a whole set of stats worthless. You are pidgeon-holing yourself into thinking ONLY about DPS. But if you’re not playing a warrior, then then you should be thinking about other things as well. How about support? How about boon stripping? The classes in this game become the most powerful when we adapt and work together, not when we all butt heads and get in each other’s way. Im not trying to bash or flame or whatever, Im just saying that you can have a METRIC-kitten-TON of fun by playing other roles and end up being R9K times more useful and effective all at the same time.

Um… how is boon stripping affected by Condition Damage? That stat is definitely not going to help you do any that any better.. His point seems to remain strong that if you specced into CD you’re pretty useless in world boss fights because of the cap.

That’s the point it’s not, so it’s one of the other things you could be doing

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Posted by: Conncept.7638

Conncept.7638

Maybe this was covered in the preview but are you assuming they will still allow people to just ignore the adds?

No I am aware of the changes, but I don’t see what that even has to do with it, the boss is not the adds. If I want to be part of the group that goes toe-to-toe against Tequatl, why should I not be able to do so on equal footing with any other class and build?

This is a major flaw in the games very system that stretches over encounters in every single game mode. And it is seemingly being completely ignored in all new content added.

While i agree that the current system is less than perfect, I wouldn’t say that it makes a whole set of stats worthless. You are pidgeon-holing yourself into thinking ONLY about DPS. But if you’re not playing a warrior, then then you should be thinking about other things as well. How about support? How about boon stripping? The classes in this game become the most powerful when we adapt and work together, not when we all butt heads and get in each other’s way. Im not trying to bash or flame or whatever, Im just saying that you can have a METRIC-kitten-TON of fun by playing other roles and end up being R9K times more useful and effective all at the same time.

Um… how is boon stripping affected by Condition Damage? That stat is definitely not going to help you do any that any better.. His point seems to remain strong that if you specced into CD you’re pretty useless in world boss fights because of the cap.

That’s the point it’s not, so it’s one of the other things you could be doing

That doesn’t help the issue in any way whatsoever. That’s like saying I can improve my condition build by dropping all my condition stats and gearing out in zerkers. My build is condition damage and duration, those are damage-based stats, there is no logical reason why I should be barred from using them in a DPS build.

(edited by Conncept.7638)

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Posted by: Dingle.2743

Dingle.2743

Conditions will be viable for the chunks where players have to defend against waves of mobs, especially as they’ll have to spread out.

There will always be mobs attacking the cannons, so condition users should focus on those to get the most out of their stats.

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Posted by: BoogerSammich.7189

BoogerSammich.7189

Maybe this was covered in the preview but are you assuming they will still allow people to just ignore the adds?

No I am aware of the changes, but I don’t see what that even has to do with it, the boss is not the adds. If I want to be part of the group that goes toe-to-toe against Tequatl, why should I not be able to do so on equal footing with any other class and build?

This is a major flaw in the games very system that stretches over encounters in every single game mode. And it is seemingly being completely ignored in all new content added.

While i agree that the current system is less than perfect, I wouldn’t say that it makes a whole set of stats worthless. You are pidgeon-holing yourself into thinking ONLY about DPS. But if you’re not playing a warrior, then then you should be thinking about other things as well. How about support? How about boon stripping? The classes in this game become the most powerful when we adapt and work together, not when we all butt heads and get in each other’s way. Im not trying to bash or flame or whatever, Im just saying that you can have a METRIC-kitten-TON of fun by playing other roles and end up being R9K times more useful and effective all at the same time.

Um… how is boon stripping affected by Condition Damage? That stat is definitely not going to help you do any that any better.. His point seems to remain strong that if you specced into CD you’re pretty useless in world boss fights because of the cap.

That’s the point it’s not, so it’s one of the other things you could be doing

That doesn’t help the issue in any way whatsoever. That’s like saying I can improve my condition build by dropping all my condition stats and gearing out in zerkers. My build is condition damage and duration, those are damage-based stats, there is no logical reason why I should be barred from using them in a DPS build.

Ok man, it’s not worth arguing over and Im not going to tell you how to play your character. But your entire line of thinking is completely one dimensional. I play a fully condition specced necro, and if you think that there aren’t other things that i can be and furthermore, SHOULD be doing in an encounter like this then your just plain wrong. You comment about “improve my conditional build by dropping all my condition stats and gearing out in zerkers” only serves to prove how uni-laterally you are thinking. As a matter of fact, my condition necro can really shine in an encounter like this without me ever even thinking about the bleed cap. But that’s because i’m not auto attacking with scepter #1 and i know what utilities to slot before i even run into the fight. But i digress, like i said this isn’t a flame war or an argument.

Even more importantly, this is a CONTENT update to a VIDEO GAME. Try and enjoy it.

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Posted by: AlietteFaye.7316

AlietteFaye.7316

Maybe this was covered in the preview but are you assuming they will still allow people to just ignore the adds?

No I am aware of the changes, but I don’t see what that even has to do with it, the boss is not the adds. If I want to be part of the group that goes toe-to-toe against Tequatl, why should I not be able to do so on equal footing with any other class and build?

This is a major flaw in the games very system that stretches over encounters in every single game mode. And it is seemingly being completely ignored in all new content added.

While i agree that the current system is less than perfect, I wouldn’t say that it makes a whole set of stats worthless. You are pidgeon-holing yourself into thinking ONLY about DPS. But if you’re not playing a warrior, then then you should be thinking about other things as well. How about support? How about boon stripping? The classes in this game become the most powerful when we adapt and work together, not when we all butt heads and get in each other’s way. Im not trying to bash or flame or whatever, Im just saying that you can have a METRIC-kitten-TON of fun by playing other roles and end up being R9K times more useful and effective all at the same time.

Um… how is boon stripping affected by Condition Damage? That stat is definitely not going to help you do any that any better.. His point seems to remain strong that if you specced into CD you’re pretty useless in world boss fights because of the cap.

That’s the point it’s not, so it’s one of the other things you could be doing

That doesn’t help the issue in any way whatsoever. That’s like saying I can improve my condition build by dropping all my condition stats and gearing out in zerkers. My build is condition damage and duration, those are damage-based stats, there is no logical reason why I should be barred from using them in a DPS build.

Ok man, it’s not worth arguing over and Im not going to tell you how to play your character. But your entire line of thinking is completely one dimensional. I play a fully condition specced necro, and if you think that there aren’t other things that i can be and furthermore, SHOULD be doing in an encounter like this then your just plain wrong. You comment about “improve my conditional build by dropping all my condition stats and gearing out in zerkers” only serves to prove how uni-laterally you are thinking. As a matter of fact, my condition necro can really shine in an encounter like this without me ever even thinking about the bleed cap. But that’s because i’m not auto attacking with scepter #1 and i know what utilities to slot before i even run into the fight. But i digress, like i said this isn’t a flame war or an argument.

Even more importantly, this is a CONTENT update to a VIDEO GAME. Try and enjoy it.

The argument isn’t that he can’t build his character in a different way, it’s that building it with Condition Damage (one of TWO ways to deal damage in the game) is not viable for open world bosses. And it’s been a valid issue that’s been discussed since day one.

He wants to play as a condition damage build, and he can’t. It doesn’t matter if you like playing your Necromancer in other ways. He likes to play his with stacking conditions and letting them burn down enemies. But he can’t do that with the 25-stack cap on open world bosses, thus rendering his gear and build stats useless.

twitch.tv/aliettefaye

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Posted by: Penguin.5197

Penguin.5197

Its too bad the devs cant figure a way to make condition damage on par with power in pve, cause simply put: The more condition builds around, the lower the chance of beating tequatl and ruining it for all.

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Posted by: Blood Red Arachnid.2493

Blood Red Arachnid.2493

The problem is, all the adds will be scaled up so high that maximum conditions won’t make a dent in their health.

I don’t have opinions. I only have facts I can’t adequately prove.

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Posted by: Curo.2483

Curo.2483

Wait, I thought there was a system where conditions beyond 25 stacks dealt direct damage instead. No?

Curo Lunesque – “Concerned Citizen and Community Builder”
NSP – northernshiverpeaks.org

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Posted by: Dingle.2743

Dingle.2743

The problem is, all the adds will be scaled up so high that maximum conditions won’t make a dent in their health.

Maximum conditions can reach comparable DPS to full zerker for certain professions. Condi Engineer and Warrior can almost reach 7k DPS when played properly, which is definitely more than I’ve seen from certain professions in a power build.

The issue with conditions isn’t the solo DPS. It’s just the lack of benefits from having more than one condition player around. Spreading them out will make them more useful.

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Posted by: Chrispy.5641

Chrispy.5641

No matter what Anet does, they need to keep it seperate from PvP and WvW because the ability to apply more than 25 stacks of any condition across any number of players would basically kill those parts of the game.

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Posted by: Conncept.7638

Conncept.7638

Maybe this was covered in the preview but are you assuming they will still allow people to just ignore the adds?

No I am aware of the changes, but I don’t see what that even has to do with it, the boss is not the adds. If I want to be part of the group that goes toe-to-toe against Tequatl, why should I not be able to do so on equal footing with any other class and build?

This is a major flaw in the games very system that stretches over encounters in every single game mode. And it is seemingly being completely ignored in all new content added.

While i agree that the current system is less than perfect, I wouldn’t say that it makes a whole set of stats worthless. You are pidgeon-holing yourself into thinking ONLY about DPS. But if you’re not playing a warrior, then then you should be thinking about other things as well. How about support? How about boon stripping? The classes in this game become the most powerful when we adapt and work together, not when we all butt heads and get in each other’s way. Im not trying to bash or flame or whatever, Im just saying that you can have a METRIC-kitten-TON of fun by playing other roles and end up being R9K times more useful and effective all at the same time.

Um… how is boon stripping affected by Condition Damage? That stat is definitely not going to help you do any that any better.. His point seems to remain strong that if you specced into CD you’re pretty useless in world boss fights because of the cap.

That’s the point it’s not, so it’s one of the other things you could be doing

That doesn’t help the issue in any way whatsoever. That’s like saying I can improve my condition build by dropping all my condition stats and gearing out in zerkers. My build is condition damage and duration, those are damage-based stats, there is no logical reason why I should be barred from using them in a DPS build.

Ok man, it’s not worth arguing over and Im not going to tell you how to play your character. But your entire line of thinking is completely one dimensional. I play a fully condition specced necro, and if you think that there aren’t other things that i can be and furthermore, SHOULD be doing in an encounter like this then your just plain wrong. You comment about “improve my conditional build by dropping all my condition stats and gearing out in zerkers” only serves to prove how uni-laterally you are thinking. As a matter of fact, my condition necro can really shine in an encounter like this without me ever even thinking about the bleed cap. But that’s because i’m not auto attacking with scepter #1 and i know what utilities to slot before i even run into the fight. But i digress, like i said this isn’t a flame war or an argument.

Even more importantly, this is a CONTENT update to a VIDEO GAME. Try and enjoy it.

Right, don’t fix things or provide critique because it’s meant to be enjoyable, even if that critique is for the purpose of making it more enjoyable. That makes looooooads of sense.

I (attempt to) play a condition Ele, I have multiple condition clears, heals, and interrupts no matter how I build in addition to the various conditions I have. You as a necro inherently have boon stripping, lifesteal, and innate tankyness in addition to your abilities. But those are inherent results of the class, not results of the conscious choices made while building a character.

Why should my choices as a player about my character have no effect on how I play? Isn’t that the entire point of build customization? If inherent class traits are so powerful as to nullify the need for your chosen stat allocation to actually function then why do we even have stats in the first place? Not to mention a build system at all.

I’m sorry and I’m trying to understand your position, but frankly, you hardly have one.

(edited by Conncept.7638)

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Posted by: Blood Red Arachnid.2493

Blood Red Arachnid.2493

The problem is, all the adds will be scaled up so high that maximum conditions won’t make a dent in their health.

Maximum conditions can reach comparable DPS to full zerker for certain professions. Condi Engineer and Warrior can almost reach 7k DPS when played properly, which is definitely more than I’ve seen from certain professions in a power build.

The issue with conditions isn’t the solo DPS. It’s just the lack of benefits from having more than one condition player around. Spreading them out will make them more useful.

I"m not sure the class/build you are using, but I’ve found zerker to out DPS condi builds almost every time. Heck, even in full carrion gear the Life Blast from my necromancer matches the damage done by the scepter’s auto attack.

The biggest problem is, condition damage has a pretty solid cap on DPS. 25 bleeds, burning, and poison at 2000 condition damage comes to about 4.7K damage per second. All other sources of damage are unpredictable or not widely available. Hitting more than this with nearly any class is quite easy in full berserker gear: Berserker Engineer can hit over 8K with each of their bombs, and when combined with the damage from static discharge or other toolbelt utilities, it goes over the condition damage done very quickly. The necromancer can hit for 11k with its dagger auto attack chain, and since this takes 2 seconds to do, it is hitting for 5.5k DPS without any additional help from off-hand weapon or utilities.

The second biggest problem is that it needs to build up. Before you can reach peak DPS with a condition build, you have to stack those 25 bleeds, burning, and poison. This takes awhile, as even a full necro condi burst only nets you around 15 stacks of bleeding. Power builds do all of their damage immediately, so there is no need to build up and no diminishing return with enemies dying too quickly.

I don’t have opinions. I only have facts I can’t adequately prove.

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Posted by: Mad Queen Malafide.7512

Mad Queen Malafide.7512

Some one brought up the idea of boon stripping. Allow me to be the first to ask…

What boons?!

“Madness is just another way to view reality”
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D-On3Ya0_4Y)

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Posted by: ZudetGambeous.9573

ZudetGambeous.9573

I’ve been making weekly threads about condition damage. Unfortunately the devs plan worked… ignore condition specs long enough and all those players will leave.

There just isn’t enough condition spec players left for the devs to take the time to form a response.

It appears condition spec players will be forced to man turrets and kill bone wa…. oh wait we can’t do dmg to objects either…

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Posted by: PopeUrban.2578

PopeUrban.2578

Personally, I plan on defending the turrets and focusing adds.

While it would be nice if some of the stacking issues in large scale fights were addressed in terms of damage, they’ve already been addressed in terms of loot tagging and event credit problems. You have to do something very wrong to use a condi build and actually not do enough to get credit.

As for whether or not you’re helping the team, that all depends on what you DO with your condi build. You want to be up in a boss’s face, but you have a condi build. You obviously know the mechanics and know that your efforts are better used elsewhere. It’s like wielding a longbow and demanding you be made more viable at melee range.

Condi builds (especially in teams) are extremely efficient at burning down trash while remaining vertical, as it takes a lesser stat investment to get quality condition damage. Condition builds are designed to be slow damage survivable builds on purpose.

Now, I’m not saying that I wouldn’t like to see condition caps raised or altered in some way to allow people to be just as ineffective at burst damage in all situations. I am, however, saying that part of the logic behind redesigning boss mechanics like the new Teq fight is creating roles that don’t just boil down to hitting 1 with zerker gear on.

Any raid or mass player content that is winnable by having a giant zerg all bashing on one entity is boring, simple, and poorly thought out. The old teq mechanics were just that: Everyone hit a foot for about ten minutes, you have enough passive buffs in the zerg to survive, and you always win.

Thus, the loot sucks… because it has to.

Now you’ve got a chance to be GOOD at something in this fight. You’ve got a chance to actually be USEFUL and CONTRIBUTE. It’s not giving you your own private stack limit on the boss, but its definitely a step in the right direction.

Why people think doing jobs that don’t involve directly smashing the boss in the face is some kind of penalty or inferior play experience is beyond me. Reward for the event is based on how dead Teq gets, and teq won’t get very dead at all with nobody taking care of those turrets and using them with skill. I don’t know why you wouldn’t want to be in the place that’s responsible for winning.

Guild Master – The Papacy [POPE] (Gate of Madness)/Road Scholar for the Durmand Priory
Writer/Director – Quaggan Quest
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Posted by: Drakkon.4782

Drakkon.4782

Conditions will be viable for the chunks where players have to defend against waves of mobs, especially as they’ll have to spread out.

There will always be mobs attacking the cannons, so condition users should focus on those to get the most out of their stats.

This is the answer to the problem, and the entire reason the OP will NEVER do it. He wants to go toe to toe with the boss like a zerker build DPSer, but he wants to do it as a CD build support. Basically, he’s trying to take a tossing flashbangs and wondering why the heavy machine gun is killing more people. He’s playing his character wrong.

There. I said it. We’re all thinking it. I’m going to call it out.

YOU’RE DOING IT WRONG!

CD is support, not DPS. Go help defend the cannons and batteries against the adds. You’re useless on the boss because all the zerkers with incidental conditions in their attacks are already using up all 25 stacks of whatever you inflict on the boss. Go do something useful to the raid. Or go play a zerker alt.

Pick one and quit whining about not being able to DPS as a support. Seriously, if you can’t add anything to the fight against the boss, go find a target you can add to. You’re still going to get rewarded for the encounter. Be useful to the event, or go away.

“People don’t hate Scarlet the way Game of Thrones
fans hate Joffrey. They hate her the way Star Wars
fans hate Jar Jar Binks.”-not a direct quote, but still true.

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Posted by: MrIllusion.5304

MrIllusion.5304

Probably not the solution people want to hear.

But maybe Anet can consider splitting Teq into multiple targets, with each target being treated as a separate mob. Decreasing the health of any of these targets decrease the overall health of teq as a whole.

So if the new Teq still has Head, Left Claw, Right Claw, that would be 3 targets, essentially raising the cap to 75.

It’s a workaround but that’s all I got.

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Posted by: Samhaim.8956

Samhaim.8956

Probably not the solution people want to hear.

But maybe Anet can consider splitting Teq into multiple targets, with each target being treated as a separate mob. Decreasing the health of any of these targets decrease the overall health of teq as a whole.

So if the new Teq still has Head, Left Claw, Right Claw, that would be 3 targets, essentially raising the cap to 75.

It’s a workaround but that’s all I got.

This creates a problem, where ppl could potentially kill it 3x faster by mobbing, Like its been said here already Condi builds are not meant to be taking bosses head on, but taking care of big mobs.

Samhaiim ~ Thief

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Posted by: locoman.1974

locoman.1974

Well, they are doing something at least, IMHO… decentralizing the fight.

The current tequatl fight if you’re condition damage you’re SOL (and I know that, I play a condition damage mesmer, and switch to a zerker GS for the big boss fights to at least do some damage).

The way the battle seems to be working after the 17th, if you’re condition damage specced you’ll probably still have the same problems with the boss, but you’ll now have to also defend the megalaser and turrets from adds, which you won’t be able to just ignore like now, and which will most likely not have conditions full now. At least it’s something.

It’s a pile of Elonian protection magic, mixed with a little monk training,
wrapped up in some crazy ritualist hoo-ha from Cantha.
A real grab bag of ‘you can’t hurt me. They’re called Guardians.

(edited by locoman.1974)

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Posted by: deSade.9437

deSade.9437

Conditions will be viable for the chunks where players have to defend against waves of mobs, especially as they’ll have to spread out.

There will always be mobs attacking the cannons, so condition users should focus on those to get the most out of their stats.

This is the answer to the problem, and the entire reason the OP will NEVER do it. He wants to go toe to toe with the boss like a zerker build DPSer, but he wants to do it as a CD build support. Basically, he’s trying to take a tossing flashbangs and wondering why the heavy machine gun is killing more people. He’s playing his character wrong.

There. I said it. We’re all thinking it. I’m going to call it out.

YOU’RE DOING IT WRONG!

CD is support, not DPS. Go help defend the cannons and batteries against the adds. You’re useless on the boss because all the zerkers with incidental conditions in their attacks are already using up all 25 stacks of whatever you inflict on the boss. Go do something useful to the raid. Or go play a zerker alt.

Pick one and quit whining about not being able to DPS as a support. Seriously, if you can’t add anything to the fight against the boss, go find a target you can add to. You’re still going to get rewarded for the encounter. Be useful to the event, or go away.

Ok, they got it, thanks. Now take a deep breath and relax.

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Posted by: Drakkon.4782

Drakkon.4782

Ok, they got it, thanks. Now take a deep breath and relax.

I was wondering what you were talking about for a minute, and then I scrolled back up and realized that the site double posted my post when I reloaded the page after a 502 error. I deleted the second one. Ain’t technology grand?

“People don’t hate Scarlet the way Game of Thrones
fans hate Joffrey. They hate her the way Star Wars
fans hate Jar Jar Binks.”-not a direct quote, but still true.

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Posted by: MrIllusion.5304

MrIllusion.5304

Probably not the solution people want to hear.

But maybe Anet can consider splitting Teq into multiple targets, with each target being treated as a separate mob. Decreasing the health of any of these targets decrease the overall health of teq as a whole.

So if the new Teq still has Head, Left Claw, Right Claw, that would be 3 targets, essentially raising the cap to 75.

It’s a workaround but that’s all I got.

This creates a problem, where ppl could potentially kill it 3x faster by mobbing, Like its been said here already Condi builds are not meant to be taking bosses head on, but taking care of big mobs.

The method I was thinking of won’t result in that.

Right now we have almost all players concentrate on teqs right claw, with a few aiming for his head.

Splitting the damage three ways amounts to about the same, especially if the three targets are not within aoe range. So players have to choose which target to focus on.

If we have 50 players targeting the right claw initially, we now have 20 on each claw and 10 on head.

The additional stacks of conditions increases total damage done, but the damage at each target is still lower than if everyone were to zerg one target.

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Posted by: Conncept.7638

Conncept.7638

Conditions will be viable for the chunks where players have to defend against waves of mobs, especially as they’ll have to spread out.

There will always be mobs attacking the cannons, so condition users should focus on those to get the most out of their stats.

This is the answer to the problem, and the entire reason the OP will NEVER do it. He wants to go toe to toe with the boss like a zerker build DPSer, but he wants to do it as a CD build support. Basically, he’s trying to take a tossing flashbangs and wondering why the heavy machine gun is killing more people. He’s playing his character wrong.

There. I said it. We’re all thinking it. I’m going to call it out.

YOU’RE DOING IT WRONG!

CD is support, not DPS. Go help defend the cannons and batteries against the adds. You’re useless on the boss because all the zerkers with incidental conditions in their attacks are already using up all 25 stacks of whatever you inflict on the boss. Go do something useful to the raid. Or go play a zerker alt.

Pick one and quit whining about not being able to DPS as a support. Seriously, if you can’t add anything to the fight against the boss, go find a target you can add to. You’re still going to get rewarded for the encounter. Be useful to the event, or go away.

Please explain to me, if you are capable, of how a stat which deals damage each second on the second is not a DPS stat, or even more curiously, how it can be considered a support stat.

You are aware of what DPS stands for are you not?

(edited by Conncept.7638)

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Posted by: ZudetGambeous.9573

ZudetGambeous.9573

Conditions will be viable for the chunks where players have to defend against waves of mobs, especially as they’ll have to spread out.

There will always be mobs attacking the cannons, so condition users should focus on those to get the most out of their stats.

This is the answer to the problem, and the entire reason the OP will NEVER do it. He wants to go toe to toe with the boss like a zerker build DPSer, but he wants to do it as a CD build support. Basically, he’s trying to take a tossing flashbangs and wondering why the heavy machine gun is killing more people. He’s playing his character wrong.

There. I said it. We’re all thinking it. I’m going to call it out.

YOU’RE DOING IT WRONG!

CD is support, not DPS. Go help defend the cannons and batteries against the adds. You’re useless on the boss because all the zerkers with incidental conditions in their attacks are already using up all 25 stacks of whatever you inflict on the boss. Go do something useful to the raid. Or go play a zerker alt.

Pick one and quit whining about not being able to DPS as a support. Seriously, if you can’t add anything to the fight against the boss, go find a target you can add to. You’re still going to get rewarded for the encounter. Be useful to the event, or go away.

So what you are saying is that my set of stats that make me do bleeding, poison, burning, and torment DAMAGE PER SECOND, and have no secondary effects are somehow support and not DPS….?

Has no one ever told you what DPS stands for?

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Posted by: locoman.1974

locoman.1974

Conditions will be viable for the chunks where players have to defend against waves of mobs, especially as they’ll have to spread out.

There will always be mobs attacking the cannons, so condition users should focus on those to get the most out of their stats.

This is the answer to the problem, and the entire reason the OP will NEVER do it. He wants to go toe to toe with the boss like a zerker build DPSer, but he wants to do it as a CD build support. Basically, he’s trying to take a tossing flashbangs and wondering why the heavy machine gun is killing more people. He’s playing his character wrong.

There. I said it. We’re all thinking it. I’m going to call it out.

YOU’RE DOING IT WRONG!

CD is support, not DPS. Go help defend the cannons and batteries against the adds. You’re useless on the boss because all the zerkers with incidental conditions in their attacks are already using up all 25 stacks of whatever you inflict on the boss. Go do something useful to the raid. Or go play a zerker alt.

Pick one and quit whining about not being able to DPS as a support. Seriously, if you can’t add anything to the fight against the boss, go find a target you can add to. You’re still going to get rewarded for the encounter. Be useful to the event, or go away.

Please explain to me, if you are capable, of how a stat which deals damage each second on the second is not a DPS stat, or even more curiously, how it can be considered a support stat.

You are aware of what DPS stands for are you not?

Simple, your build is indeed a condition based DPS, but in that particular fight, because of the way the game handles conditions, you’ll be playing the role of support, supporting the efforts to kill the boss by using your condition DPS specced character to defend the turrets and megalaser by killing the mobs trying to destroy them, which in turn are doing support to the ones attacking tequatl by cleaning stunning it, depleting the stacks that protect him, clean the poison, etc.

Of course you can also attack tequatl directly, but due to how the game handles conditions (and one of the characters I play the most is a condition specced mesmer, BTW, so I know your pain), you (and I when playing my mesmer) will be more useful as defense.

It’s a pile of Elonian protection magic, mixed with a little monk training,
wrapped up in some crazy ritualist hoo-ha from Cantha.
A real grab bag of ‘you can’t hurt me. They’re called Guardians.

(edited by locoman.1974)

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Posted by: AlietteFaye.7316

AlietteFaye.7316

Conditions will be viable for the chunks where players have to defend against waves of mobs, especially as they’ll have to spread out.

There will always be mobs attacking the cannons, so condition users should focus on those to get the most out of their stats.

This is the answer to the problem, and the entire reason the OP will NEVER do it. He wants to go toe to toe with the boss like a zerker build DPSer, but he wants to do it as a CD build support. Basically, he’s trying to take a tossing flashbangs and wondering why the heavy machine gun is killing more people. He’s playing his character wrong.

There. I said it. We’re all thinking it. I’m going to call it out.

YOU’RE DOING IT WRONG!

CD is support, not DPS. Go help defend the cannons and batteries against the adds. You’re useless on the boss because all the zerkers with incidental conditions in their attacks are already using up all 25 stacks of whatever you inflict on the boss. Go do something useful to the raid. Or go play a zerker alt.

Pick one and quit whining about not being able to DPS as a support. Seriously, if you can’t add anything to the fight against the boss, go find a target you can add to. You’re still going to get rewarded for the encounter. Be useful to the event, or go away.

Please explain to me, if you are capable, of how a stat which deals damage each second on the second is not a DPS stat, or even more curiously, how it can be considered a support stat.

You are aware of what DPS stands for are you not?

Simple, your build is indeed a condition based DPS, but in that particular fight, because of the way the game handles conditions, you’ll be playing the role of support, supporting the efforts to kill the boss by using your condition DPS specced character to defend the turrets and megalaser by killing the mobs trying to destroy them, which in turn are doing support to the ones attacking tequatl by cleaning stunning it, depleting the stacks that protect him, clean the poison, etc.

Of course you can also attack tequatl directly, but due to how the game handles conditions (and one of the characters I play the most is a condition specced mesmer, BTW, so I know your pain), you (and I when playing my mesmer) will be more useful as defense.

I like how everybody is acting like there isn’t going to be tons of people also attacking these other mobs and accidentally getting stacks on them which still take away from the CD stat as a whole.

Also, the point still stands that the stat becomes less and less useful in open world content because of the terrible stack limit. Just because you can still support while having that gear doesn’t mean that the stat is benefitting you in any way.

twitch.tv/aliettefaye

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Posted by: Chrispy.5641

Chrispy.5641

Conditions will be viable for the chunks where players have to defend against waves of mobs, especially as they’ll have to spread out.

There will always be mobs attacking the cannons, so condition users should focus on those to get the most out of their stats.

This is the answer to the problem, and the entire reason the OP will NEVER do it. He wants to go toe to toe with the boss like a zerker build DPSer, but he wants to do it as a CD build support. Basically, he’s trying to take a tossing flashbangs and wondering why the heavy machine gun is killing more people. He’s playing his character wrong.

There. I said it. We’re all thinking it. I’m going to call it out.

YOU’RE DOING IT WRONG!

CD is support, not DPS. Go help defend the cannons and batteries against the adds. You’re useless on the boss because all the zerkers with incidental conditions in their attacks are already using up all 25 stacks of whatever you inflict on the boss. Go do something useful to the raid. Or go play a zerker alt.

Pick one and quit whining about not being able to DPS as a support. Seriously, if you can’t add anything to the fight against the boss, go find a target you can add to. You’re still going to get rewarded for the encounter. Be useful to the event, or go away.

Technically, all the Zerkers are useless too, since they do just as much damage to a mega boss as my Soldier build does because you can’t crit them, and depending on how my traits and sigils are set up, My Ranger’s Cleric build does alot more damage to world bosses than a Zerker does because of my pet.

So you know what? You get your weak self back there and take care of those adds because I do more damage to the boss than you do! You ain’t no DPS class in this case, I am, plus I don’t die in one hit from the boss’s attacks, unlike you, so GET OUTTA HERE!

Sarcasm aside, the Condition builds do have a point. They can easily outdamage Zerker builds if built properly, and they should be able to do that damage to almost anything in the game, not just a bunch of weak enemies that no one cares about.

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Posted by: AlietteFaye.7316

AlietteFaye.7316

Conditions will be viable for the chunks where players have to defend against waves of mobs, especially as they’ll have to spread out.

There will always be mobs attacking the cannons, so condition users should focus on those to get the most out of their stats.

This is the answer to the problem, and the entire reason the OP will NEVER do it. He wants to go toe to toe with the boss like a zerker build DPSer, but he wants to do it as a CD build support. Basically, he’s trying to take a tossing flashbangs and wondering why the heavy machine gun is killing more people. He’s playing his character wrong.

There. I said it. We’re all thinking it. I’m going to call it out.

YOU’RE DOING IT WRONG!

CD is support, not DPS. Go help defend the cannons and batteries against the adds. You’re useless on the boss because all the zerkers with incidental conditions in their attacks are already using up all 25 stacks of whatever you inflict on the boss. Go do something useful to the raid. Or go play a zerker alt.

Pick one and quit whining about not being able to DPS as a support. Seriously, if you can’t add anything to the fight against the boss, go find a target you can add to. You’re still going to get rewarded for the encounter. Be useful to the event, or go away.

Technically, all the Zerkers are useless too, since they do just as much damage to a mega boss as my Soldier build does because you can’t crit them, and depending on how my traits and sigils are set up, My Ranger’s Cleric build does alot more damage to world bosses than a Zerker does because of my pet.

So you know what? You get your weak self back there and take care of those adds because I do more damage to the boss than you do! You ain’t no DPS class in this case, I am, plus I don’t die in one hit from the boss’s attacks, unlike you, so GET OUTTA HERE!

Sarcasm aside, the Condition builds do have a point. They can easily outdamage Zerker builds if built properly, and they should be able to do that damage to almost anything in the game, not just a bunch of weak enemies that no one cares about.

I didn’t say that CD doesn’t have a point. I said that it’s usefulness against world bosses is EXTREMELY slim. And yes, you’re right. Building as a zerker doesn’t gain you any advantage against World Bosses over building as a Soldier. But guess what? You don’t lose damage, either. CD does lose damage, and for a pretty poor reason.

twitch.tv/aliettefaye

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Posted by: ZudetGambeous.9573

ZudetGambeous.9573

Conditions will be viable for the chunks where players have to defend against waves of mobs, especially as they’ll have to spread out.

There will always be mobs attacking the cannons, so condition users should focus on those to get the most out of their stats.

This is the answer to the problem, and the entire reason the OP will NEVER do it. He wants to go toe to toe with the boss like a zerker build DPSer, but he wants to do it as a CD build support. Basically, he’s trying to take a tossing flashbangs and wondering why the heavy machine gun is killing more people. He’s playing his character wrong.

There. I said it. We’re all thinking it. I’m going to call it out.

YOU’RE DOING IT WRONG!

CD is support, not DPS. Go help defend the cannons and batteries against the adds. You’re useless on the boss because all the zerkers with incidental conditions in their attacks are already using up all 25 stacks of whatever you inflict on the boss. Go do something useful to the raid. Or go play a zerker alt.

Pick one and quit whining about not being able to DPS as a support. Seriously, if you can’t add anything to the fight against the boss, go find a target you can add to. You’re still going to get rewarded for the encounter. Be useful to the event, or go away.

Technically, all the Zerkers are useless too, since they do just as much damage to a mega boss as my Soldier build does because you can’t crit them, and depending on how my traits and sigils are set up, My Ranger’s Cleric build does alot more damage to world bosses than a Zerker does because of my pet.

So you know what? You get your weak self back there and take care of those adds because I do more damage to the boss than you do! You ain’t no DPS class in this case, I am, plus I don’t die in one hit from the boss’s attacks, unlike you, so GET OUTTA HERE!

Sarcasm aside, the Condition builds do have a point. They can easily outdamage Zerker builds if built properly, and they should be able to do that damage to almost anything in the game, not just a bunch of weak enemies that no one cares about.

Well except for the 40% of the fight where you can crit…

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Posted by: Conncept.7638

Conncept.7638

Conditions will be viable for the chunks where players have to defend against waves of mobs, especially as they’ll have to spread out.

There will always be mobs attacking the cannons, so condition users should focus on those to get the most out of their stats.

This is the answer to the problem, and the entire reason the OP will NEVER do it. He wants to go toe to toe with the boss like a zerker build DPSer, but he wants to do it as a CD build support. Basically, he’s trying to take a tossing flashbangs and wondering why the heavy machine gun is killing more people. He’s playing his character wrong.

There. I said it. We’re all thinking it. I’m going to call it out.

YOU’RE DOING IT WRONG!

CD is support, not DPS. Go help defend the cannons and batteries against the adds. You’re useless on the boss because all the zerkers with incidental conditions in their attacks are already using up all 25 stacks of whatever you inflict on the boss. Go do something useful to the raid. Or go play a zerker alt.

Pick one and quit whining about not being able to DPS as a support. Seriously, if you can’t add anything to the fight against the boss, go find a target you can add to. You’re still going to get rewarded for the encounter. Be useful to the event, or go away.

Please explain to me, if you are capable, of how a stat which deals damage each second on the second is not a DPS stat, or even more curiously, how it can be considered a support stat.

You are aware of what DPS stands for are you not?

Simple, your build is indeed a condition based DPS, but in that particular fight, because of the way the game handles conditions, you’ll be playing the role of support, supporting the efforts to kill the boss by using your condition DPS specced character to defend the turrets and megalaser by killing the mobs trying to destroy them, which in turn are doing support to the ones attacking tequatl by cleaning stunning it, depleting the stacks that protect him, clean the poison, etc.

Of course you can also attack tequatl directly, but due to how the game handles conditions (and one of the characters I play the most is a condition specced mesmer, BTW, so I know your pain), you (and I when playing my mesmer) will be more useful as defense.

As if everyone doesn’t know that the current system forces a DPS stat user out of the DPS role. Especially since the very same system flaw which causes it is the principle subject of the opening post! The purpose of this thread is not to discuss what we can do within this flawed system, but to garner drive on part of the players and admonish the developers to work on fixing it and keeping us informed, or at least not releasing one content patch after another that exacerbates the problem!

(edited by Conncept.7638)

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Posted by: Player Character.9467

Player Character.9467

Why do people keep talking about zerker dps on the boss? You can’t crit tequatl… precision and crit dmg useless so PTV or cleric’s for power builds. Condi builds also shouldn’t be defending the cannons because unless you’re organized and spiking condis on 1 mob then epidemicing it (lol coordination in pug pve zerg?), you aren’t going to take them out fast enough compared to power based dmg spiking.

(edited by Player Character.9467)

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Posted by: Shiren.9532

Shiren.9532

Condition users are second class citizens in PvE. Get used to it cause it’s not going to change.

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Posted by: Terrahero.9358

Terrahero.9358

It sucks for condition builds, and if you want to be that guy that pushes out most dps then you dont want to be using a condition build. But lets be honest, you will be using a Warrior anyway.

The reward system has, as a result, been adjusted in such a way that even condition builds meager direct-damage is more then enough to get a gold reward on world bosses.
I assume Tequatl will not be an exception. So atleast you should not be missing out on your reward.

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Posted by: ZudetGambeous.9573

ZudetGambeous.9573

Why do people keep talking about zerker dps on the boss? You can’t crit tequatl… precision and crit dmg useless so PTV or cleric’s for power builds. Condi builds also shouldn’t be defending the cannons because unless you’re organized and spiking condis on 1 mob then epidemicing it (lol coordination in pug pve zerg?), you aren’t going to take them out fast enough compared to power based dmg spiking.

People keep saying this… It’s like they have never actually fought teq… or I guess they are so zerg minded they just spam 1 and never actually look at their damage.

While it is true that you cannot crit teq during the first part of the fight, once the laser goes off it enables crits to take place. That’s the whole point of the giant laser. That’s why his health goes down very slowly at the beginning but then plummets to 0 when the laser goes off. The laser does no actual damage, it just enables crits.

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Posted by: Pifil.5193

Pifil.5193

Its not ignored, they’ve stated why many times. I know it sucks (having a condition toon myself), but its a major technical/bandwidth issue which cant just be solved at this time.

I agree it’s a flaw, but I suspect we wont see any changes until they can work round the stated technical limitations

No one is talking about removing the condition limits for all mobs or anything, but raising the condition cap limit – just for bleeding, confusion and torment – for at most one mob per zone (the world bosses) to something larger than 25, let’s say to 250. Seems reasonable.

Lets put that in perspective imagine we have 10 extra adds in all these fights, would that be a major technical/bandwith issue? Now if we “bundle” those adds into Tequatl, is that now a major technical/bandwidth issue? Because if it is then then this game engine is completely broken.

ArenaNet don’t seem to be interested in fixing this problem.

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Posted by: Stx.4857

Stx.4857

This is definitely one of those things they should have fixed during their beta over a year ago.

Other games feature DoT classes, and miraculously they can all deal their damage just fine. This ‘technical limitation’ excuse is getting really old. Its 2013, you can’t use that excuse for everything.

OH and to the boneheads using the argument: “It’s okay because the fight has adds, go kill those”, what if the fight DIDN’T have adds? Your argument is completely irrelevant. The simple facts are that you cannot dps as a condition spec on open world bosses, and you also cannot dps as conditions in 5man dungeons if there are more than one condition spec!

Why even have condition specs in the game if you can’t use them in PvE at all other than leveling?

2x 80 Necro, 80 Ranger, 80 Thief

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Posted by: Talonblaze.3175

Talonblaze.3175

Seems as though the condition users and crit fighters can share the same boat. I’ve never liked that my high crit chance and damage was completely useless, but I still deal with it anyways.
It’s unlikely that there will be any major changes to the condition meta any time soon, so we’ll all have to take a seat next to each other for this one. It’s not like you still can’t contribute anyways, so I don’t see what the big deal is.

Duty is heavier than death.