Guild Wars 2

Eurhetemec.9052:

Why do you think that applies to Charr, Norns, Asura, or Sylvari? Explanation in detail please. Sylvari aren’t even animals in the normal sense, let alone mammals, and you think this applies to them? Norns have drastically different physiology to humans. Charr too. Asura probably aren’t mammals. So claiming “scientific” is utterly wrong.

This is a FANTASY GAME. Not “Olympics Simulator 2013”. Even the humans, are they ACTUALLY humans? We don’t know. They’re taller and better looking than humans in our world tend to be.

Asura are most likely mammals. But humans are definitely humans. They’re actually from Earth, brought to Tyria by the gods for some unspecified reason hundreds or thousands of years ago.

Just a bit of lore for you.

DarksunG.9537:

“What game are you playing where this is remotely relevant? In GW2, a 2 foot tall asura hits just as hard as a 10 foot tall, 800 lb norn. Any race and gender can make a competent warrior in this magic fantasy land. You can buy that, but then having more women warriors is beyond that pale? The reason injecting more males into the story at this point is artificial, within the context of this thread, is that people want them just because they’re male, not because more people of a specific gender are actually needed to tell a fantasy MMO story.

Sorry but I have to jump in here, no the asura do not hit as hard as the norn in lore, the reason they hit for the same amount is for gameplay and balance not actual lore/the world of tyria.

Pixelpumpkin.4608:

Lorelei.7809:

So… might I ask you, why aren’t there more women? If you include holidays in there, and they are part of the Living World, then we need at least 1 more woman character to even it out (not sure whether or not to count Bloody Prince to make it 4 men).

Then we’ll have to add Tassi to the list; a side character since Halloween 2012 (!), played a central part in the story instance of Dragon Bash, inventor of the Tassi box, and the one who put the Bloody Prince back to rest.

Let’s not forget about Tassi.

She kicks kitten.

:)

That is a lie. The Tassi Box is just a reattunement of the Very Old Energy Detector that College of Statics Asura invented in the Personal Story. I’m pretty sure we get royalties every time another player uses one.

Kal Spiro.9745:

Um, I’ll just throw the rest of that out because this right here… I’m arguing that no one should have a problem with this. And I say explicitly that I do not have a problem with it. So where exactly does this come from?

My point about Elves and Sylvari is that their physical gender is irrelevant, like dwarves. All dwarves are dudes and all elves are chicks, they just are, deal with it.

Well apparently you do have a problem because your comment about elves and dwarves is so absurd I’ve a hard time comperehending how anyone could have that view.

What exactly makes all Dwarves “dudes” and all Elves “chicks”? I don’t need to “deal with it” since the whole argument is absurd and I wager most people don’t see it like this.

There’s nothing in elves or dwarves that makes them gender neutral. I don’t think I’ve seen any game or fantasy piece where this is the case. I can’t even compherend how anyone could reach this conclusion? Please enlighten me what exactly makes elves “chicks” or dwarves “dudes”?

Northlander.4619:

Kal Spiro.9745:

Um, I’ll just throw the rest of that out because this right here… I’m arguing that no one should have a problem with this. And I say explicitly that I do not have a problem with it. So where exactly does this come from?

My point about Elves and Sylvari is that their physical gender is irrelevant, like dwarves. All dwarves are dudes and all elves are chicks, they just are, deal with it.

Well apparently you do have a problem because your comment about elves and dwarves is so absurd I’ve a hard time comperehending how anyone could have that view.

What exactly makes all Dwarves “dudes” and all Elves “chicks”? I don’t need to “deal with it” since the whole argument is absurd and I wager most people don’t see it like this.

There’s nothing in elves or dwarves that makes them gender neutral. I don’t think I’ve seen any game or fantasy piece where this is the case. I can’t even compherend how anyone could reach this conclusion? Please enlighten me what exactly makes elves “chicks” or dwarves “dudes”?

I think Kal’s post was not meant to be as serious as you’re making it, but I could be wrong!

Lilith Ajit.6173:

I think Kal’s post was not meant to be as serious as you’re making it, but I could be wrong!

Then it shouldn’t have been used to back an argument to be honest.

Northlander.4619:

Lilith Ajit.6173:

I think Kal’s post was not meant to be as serious as you’re making it, but I could be wrong!

Then it shouldn’t have been used to back an argument to be honest.

I think you may be taking this way too seriously, to be honest.

Lilith Ajit.6173:

Northlander.4619:

Kal Spiro.9745:

Um, I’ll just throw the rest of that out because this right here… I’m arguing that no one should have a problem with this. And I say explicitly that I do not have a problem with it. So where exactly does this come from?

My point about Elves and Sylvari is that their physical gender is irrelevant, like dwarves. All dwarves are dudes and all elves are chicks, they just are, deal with it.

Well apparently you do have a problem because your comment about elves and dwarves is so absurd I’ve a hard time comperehending how anyone could have that view.

What exactly makes all Dwarves “dudes” and all Elves “chicks”? I don’t need to “deal with it” since the whole argument is absurd and I wager most people don’t see it like this.

There’s nothing in elves or dwarves that makes them gender neutral. I don’t think I’ve seen any game or fantasy piece where this is the case. I can’t even compherend how anyone could reach this conclusion? Please enlighten me what exactly makes elves “chicks” or dwarves “dudes”?

I think Kal’s post was not meant to be as serious as you’re making it, but I could be wrong!

No no, I’ll bite. As for dwarves, mainly it’s the beard. Any proper dwarf has a beard. Dwarves are supposed to have beards and quaff and sing songs about gold. The most important aspect in any Dwarven romance is first determining if the Dwarf you fancy is actually of the opposite sex. Dwarves are dudes. It’s what defines them as a race, along with being short, dirty and perpetually mining for precious minerals.

Elves are in every way the opposite of dwarves. They do not have beards or facial hair of any kind, ever. They are lithe and graceful and do not quaff. (Not that they have a beard to store their spilled ale in anyway.) As such, Dwarves being dudes as represented before, Elves are chicks.

I hope this has been educational.

Kal Spiro.9745:

Lilith Ajit.6173:

Northlander.4619:

Kal Spiro.9745:

Um, I’ll just throw the rest of that out because this right here… I’m arguing that no one should have a problem with this. And I say explicitly that I do not have a problem with it. So where exactly does this come from?

My point about Elves and Sylvari is that their physical gender is irrelevant, like dwarves. All dwarves are dudes and all elves are chicks, they just are, deal with it.

Well apparently you do have a problem because your comment about elves and dwarves is so absurd I’ve a hard time comperehending how anyone could have that view.

What exactly makes all Dwarves “dudes” and all Elves “chicks”? I don’t need to “deal with it” since the whole argument is absurd and I wager most people don’t see it like this.

There’s nothing in elves or dwarves that makes them gender neutral. I don’t think I’ve seen any game or fantasy piece where this is the case. I can’t even compherend how anyone could reach this conclusion? Please enlighten me what exactly makes elves “chicks” or dwarves “dudes”?

I think Kal’s post was not meant to be as serious as you’re making it, but I could be wrong!

No no, I’ll bite. As for dwarves, mainly it’s the beard. Any proper dwarf has a beard. Dwarves are supposed to have beards and quaff and sing songs about gold. The most important aspect in any Dwarven romance is first determining if the Dwarf you fancy is actually of the opposite sex. Dwarves are dudes. It’s what defines them as a race, along with being short, dirty and perpetually mining for precious minerals.

Elves are in every way the opposite of dwarves. They do not have beards or facial hair of any kind, ever. They are lithe and graceful and do not quaff. (Not that they have a beard to store their spilled ale in anyway.) As such, Dwarves being dudes as represented before, Elves are chicks.

I hope this has been educational.

In my head, the songs from The Hobbit are echoing in my head and I can’t help but grin.

Thanks Pixelpumpkin! I added Tassi to my list

I find the characters competent in different ways. Braham is certainly competent.

My 2 cents on women, sports, fighting, emotions, yada, yada, yada and science. Unfortunately, you really hit a nerve (I am a female athlete and scientist).
1) human male and female anatomy, though different, and generally advantageous to men in sports, is very similar between genders, scientifically. In some sports, men and women compete equally. And women beat men. Even if men, scientifically, are better at something, it doesn’t make them so dramatically better that any man can beat any woman. Billy Jean King beat Bobby Riggs. I have beaten male opponents myself.

2) The human brain is the same between the two (in terms of research, etc, not talking hormonal)

3) You cannot dispute that women would not be equal to men in terms of magic ability. In fact, you could probably argue that they would be better at magic than men. Honestly, the only profession in the game that has an arguable male advantage (for humans assuming these human women have the same limitations as real-world humans) would be warrior as they do not use much magic nor does it depend on agility or subtlety (you do hear of a lot of women thieves). Men and women are both equally able to do the engineering profession. Note: This is regarding humans. Charr, Norn, Asura, and Sylvari have even less differentiation between the genders than humans do physiologically (Sylvari are the same, the shape is just different, Charr and Asura are the same between genders, Not sure about Norn, but certainly the Norn ladies are tough as nails – the men do not want weaker women so their strength then makes them far more equal, at the very least).

4) In terms of emotions, or whatever, men can also be brash and reckless. When men get brash and reckless, people can die (Snaff, for example – and Kralkatorrik is still around – and no matter what way you shake it, he maybe saved one person (she still may have lived) and he could have saved millions – I think the Queen would have been fine with dying if she knew he could have killed a dragon). When women get emotional, people often do not die.

5) As women are often weaker physically than their opponents they often use their mind to make up for it. How is it that women often become serial killers? They use poison. In other words, they are calculating.

Another note on emotion: Sometimes emotional can make you unpredictable which is an advantage in fighting.

Kal Spiro.9745:

No no, I’ll bite. As for dwarves, mainly it’s the beard. Any proper dwarf has a beard. Dwarves are supposed to have beards and quaff and sing songs about gold. The most important aspect in any Dwarven romance is first determining if the Dwarf you fancy is actually of the opposite sex. Dwarves are dudes. It’s what defines them as a race, along with being short, dirty and perpetually mining for precious minerals.

Elves are in every way the opposite of dwarves. They do not have beards or facial hair of any kind, ever. They are lithe and graceful and do not quaff. (Not that they have a beard to store their spilled ale in anyway.) As such, Dwarves being dudes as represented before, Elves are chicks.

I hope this has been educational.

Ok so your argument is that because elves are lithe and graceful they are not guys because apparently guys can not be lithe and graceful? Umm ok. Also DnD has a long tradition of female dwarves that do not have beards. I recommend doing a google search.

It was certainly educational to how your mind works but I doubt it should be used as a basis to judge how many male or female characters given living story has which is what this thread is about.

Your argument was that the gender of Trahernia, Scarlet, Caithe, Canach etc can be ignored because they are Sylvari and by your logic all Sylvari are girls. This is not true.

I could make an argument all Norn are male because you know. They are large, brash, boasty, competitive and aggressive which for some is what “real men” are about. That would be equally bad justification though.

Lorelei, I fear you’ve kicked the hornet’s nest.

Should the hordes of MRA text warriors descend upon you, die well. I will notify your next of kin.

Northlander.4619:

Kal Spiro.9745:

No no, I’ll bite. As for dwarves, mainly it’s the beard. Any proper dwarf has a beard. Dwarves are supposed to have beards and quaff and sing songs about gold. The most important aspect in any Dwarven romance is first determining if the Dwarf you fancy is actually of the opposite sex. Dwarves are dudes. It’s what defines them as a race, along with being short, dirty and perpetually mining for precious minerals.

Elves are in every way the opposite of dwarves. They do not have beards or facial hair of any kind, ever. They are lithe and graceful and do not quaff. (Not that they have a beard to store their spilled ale in anyway.) As such, Dwarves being dudes as represented before, Elves are chicks.

I hope this has been educational.

Ok so your argument is that because elves are lithe and graceful they are not guys because apparently guys can not be lithe and graceful? Umm ok. Also DnD has a long tradition of female dwarves that do not have beards. I recommend doing a google search.

It was certainly educational to how your mind works but I doubt it should be used as a basis to judge how many male or female characters given living story has which is what this thread is about.

Your argument was that the gender of Trahernia, Scarlet, Caithe, Canach etc can be ignored because they are Sylvari and by your logic all Sylvari are girls. This is not true.

I could make an argument all Norn are male because you know. They are large, brash, boasty, competitive and aggressive which for some is what “real men” are about. That would be equally bad justification though.

All instances of dwarves without beards is a reprehensible travesty and you should be ashamed of yourself for even acknowledging them, let alone actually use them as an argument in your post.

And I never said elves weren’t guys nor anything about girls, obviously roughly half of all the elves have to be male since they’re probably mammals. The Sylvari don’t, and technically none of them are male nor female because they’re all plants, not animals. I just said they’re all chicks.

Northlander.4619:

Kal Spiro.9745:

No no, I’ll bite. As for dwarves, mainly it’s the beard. Any proper dwarf has a beard. Dwarves are supposed to have beards and quaff and sing songs about gold. The most important aspect in any Dwarven romance is first determining if the Dwarf you fancy is actually of the opposite sex. Dwarves are dudes. It’s what defines them as a race, along with being short, dirty and perpetually mining for precious minerals.

Elves are in every way the opposite of dwarves. They do not have beards or facial hair of any kind, ever. They are lithe and graceful and do not quaff. (Not that they have a beard to store their spilled ale in anyway.) As such, Dwarves being dudes as represented before, Elves are chicks.

I hope this has been educational.

Ok so your argument is that because elves are lithe and graceful they are not guys because apparently guys can not be lithe and graceful? Umm ok. Also DnD has a long tradition of female dwarves that do not have beards. I recommend doing a google search.

It was certainly educational to how your mind works but I doubt it should be used as a basis to judge how many male or female characters given living story has which is what this thread is about.

Your argument was that the gender of Trahernia, Scarlet, Caithe, Canach etc can be ignored because they are Sylvari and by your logic all Sylvari are girls. This is not true.

I could make an argument all Norn are male because you know. They are large, brash, boasty, competitive and aggressive which for some is what “real men” are about. That would be equally bad justification though.

I’m actually pretty sure gw2 lore does not differentiate much between male and female sylvari. They choose what they wish to be when they leave the dream, it isn’t a genetics thing, it is, in fact, a shape thing. They don’t reproduce, right?

When I started playing this game I was leveling many different characters and I was always doing all the story quests, from what I saw this game is full of female characters.
Destinys Edge 3/5 females
pact leaders 2/3 females
Living world full of females
Humans have a queen
Silvari have a Mother tree
Human gods half of them are Females
I think 2/3 important characters in this game’s world are Females, the game needs some strong scary kitten dudes because it doesnt feel epic anymore. Everytime I remember what happened with lord farren in that solo instance I want to spit on my combuter screen.

Kal Spiro.9745:

All instances of dwarves without beards is a reprehensible travesty and you should be ashamed of yourself for even acknowledging them, let alone actually use them as an argument in your post.

And I never said elves weren’t guys nor anything about girls, obviously roughly half of all the elves have to be male since they’re probably mammals. The Sylvari don’t, and technically none of them are male nor female because they’re all plants, not animals. I just said they’re all chicks.

It’s a bit too late to make it out too look as an argument you made for “fun”. The fact that you used a bad argument. They have established gender identity in lore as well as in appearance.

Also that’s not what you said. You said “I still subscribe to the idea that Sylvari are elves and all elves are chicks, so Trehearn, Scarlet, Caithe, it makes no difference if they’re male or female they’re Sylvari so they’re girls.”.

Are you saying that chicks is a gender neutral term for elves. I mean you said all elves are chicks but apparently that includes male elves now? Fascinating. You learn new things every day in the wonderful world of the Internet. However you also compared Sylvari to Elves and then proceed to say Sylvari are all girls. If this is true wouldn’t that mean that all elves are also girls? Now I’m confused!

You also said “Funny thing about equality. In order for it to exist this debate needs to not matter. Because if there was equality no one would care.”

Then you make an argument that basically supports the idea that there’s a gender imbalance because apparently Trahernia and Canach fall into female camp just because they are Sylvari and all Sylvari are “chicks”.

Verow.6904:

Human gods half of them are Females

no 4 out of 6 are female if dhuum and abbadon are not included if they are included it is equal 4/8
Male gods (Balthazar, Grenth, Abbadon[dead], Dhuum[still imprisoned?])
Female gods (Melandru, Lyssa, Dwyanna, Kormir)

It doesn’t feel epic because they’re “mostly” girls. Aw. That’s sad to hear.

Destiny’s Edge: males: Rytlock, Logan, Snaff. Females: Zojja, Eir, Caithe. Uhhm.

Honestly, it is that big of a deal?
I’m a guy, and it doesn’t bother me at all. Marjory and Kasmeer are two awesome characters, and I want to see more of them. Trahearne is a huge character in the game, and I am glad gw2 is showing more female characters.

zoidberg.7801:

Honestly, it is that big of a deal?
I’m a guy, and it doesn’t bother me at all. Marjory and Kasmeer are two awesome characters, and I want to see more of them. Trahearne is a huge character in the game, and I am glad gw2 is showing more female characters.

Oh god you’re here “With my last breath I curse Zoidberg”...now look to signature and realize irony

Verow.6904:

I think 2/3 important characters in this game’s world are Females, the game needs some strong scary kitten dudes because it doesnt feel epic anymore.

This pretty much shows how the problem isn’t with the game, here. At all. It’s similar to the attitude that female comedians can’t be funny, female musicians can’t rock, and so on that was really common up into the ’90s.

If you can’t find something “epic” without “scary dudes”, I think that’s society’s problem, not the game’s.

Infamous Darkness.3284:

Sorry but I have to jump in here, no the asura do not hit as hard as the norn in lore, the reason they hit for the same amount is for gameplay and balance not actual lore/the world of tyria.

And yet we accept that 2 foot tall people are allowed to be warriors or protagonists? If anything, this inconsistency supports my point that suspension of disbelief is implied the moment you load up a fantasy game.

Northlander.4619:

Kal Spiro.9745:

All instances of dwarves without beards is a reprehensible travesty and you should be ashamed of yourself for even acknowledging them, let alone actually use them as an argument in your post.

And I never said elves weren’t guys nor anything about girls, obviously roughly half of all the elves have to be male since they’re probably mammals. The Sylvari don’t, and technically none of them are male nor female because they’re all plants, not animals. I just said they’re all chicks.

It’s a bit too late to make it out too look as an argument you made for “fun”. The fact that you used a bad argument. They have established gender identity in lore as well as in appearance.

Also that’s not what you said. You said “I still subscribe to the idea that Sylvari are elves and all elves are chicks, so Trehearn, Scarlet, Caithe, it makes no difference if they’re male or female they’re Sylvari so they’re girls.”.

Are you saying that chicks is a gender neutral term for elves. I mean you said all elves are chicks but apparently that includes male elves now? Fascinating. You learn new things every day in the wonderful world of the Internet. However you also compared Sylvari to Elves and then proceed to say Sylvari are all girls. If this is true wouldn’t that mean that all elves are also girls? Now I’m confused!

You also said “Funny thing about equality. In order for it to exist this debate needs to not matter. Because if there was equality no one would care.”

Then you make an argument that basically supports the idea that there’s a gender imbalance because apparently Trahernia and Canach fall into female camp just because they are Sylvari and all Sylvari are “chicks”.

Well if I said it, then I’ll stand by it regardless of what I meant. They’re girls. Whether or not they’re guys, male or female, they’re still girls. I can live with that.

So I’ll skip ahead to your end argument. Your problem here is you seem to think that equality and balance are the same thing, or even relevant in comparison to each other. If you would go on to quote me you would see I said it isn’t the quantity of them that matters, it’s the quality. They could be all female, as long as they’re all well made, defined and represented characters then the number doesn’t matter.

So no, I did not then throw in with the, “There’s an imbalance, wah wah wah, girls scare me I need more sausage in my MMO,” camp. I just made a statement that the Sylvari as a race don’t matter and can’t be used in the argument because their apparent gender doesn’t matter, they’re all chicks, or girls, or whatever.

Incidentally I am really enjoying how invested you apparently are in this whole dwarves are dudes and elves are chicks debate. I really hope you’re female because it would totally mess with my outlook of the world if you turned out to be a guy. Mostly cause I’m only ever seen other women make these kinds of outbursts against the idea, while guys typically just accept it in stride.

Verow.6904:

When I started playing this game I was leveling many different characters and I was always doing all the story quests, from what I saw this game is full of female characters.
Destinys Edge 3/5 females
pact leaders 2/3 females
Living world full of females
Humans have a queen
Silvari have a Mother tree
Human gods half of them are Females
I think 2/3 important characters in this game’s world are Females, the game needs some strong scary kitten dudes because it doesnt feel epic anymore. Everytime I remember what happened with lord farren in that solo instance I want to spit on my combuter screen.

Did you look at mine and Pixelpumpkin’s calculations?
Pixelpumpkin: Male living story characters: 18
Female living story characters: 12

Mine: Even.

You said yourself that the human gods are evenly split.
Do you really think that a Father Tree would work? Seriously?!
Humans have had a Queen for ages.
Pact leaders? That is only one different. Same with Destiny’s Edge.

Edit: Yeah, you’re right, Lilith. But Snaff did die. You aren’t going to be seing him around

Again, DE has 6 members, 3 males, 3 females.

Lilith Ajit.6173:

Again, DE has 6 members, 3 males, 3 females.

To be fair, no one in the game has ever met Snaff because he died long before we show up and there aren’t any flashback events. The only reason anyone might even know what he looks like is because Eir carved a statue of him.

DE isn’t even together when we see them. They were always the 6 of them, then one died, and they weren’t DE anymore.

Also no one in the game has met the human gods. They count?

Verow.6904:

When I started playing this game I was leveling many different characters and I was always doing all the story quests, from what I saw this game is full of female characters.
Destinys Edge 3/5 females
pact leaders 2/3 females
Living world full of females
Humans have a queen
Silvari have a Mother tree
Human gods half of them are Females
I think 2/3 important characters in this game’s world are Females, the game needs some strong scary kitten dudes because it doesnt feel epic anymore. Everytime I remember what happened with lord farren in that solo instance I want to spit on my combuter screen.

Desinty’s Edge, I’ll give it to you.
Pact Leaders 2/3, pact intermediaries 1/3. We don’t deal with the leaders so Pact is even.
Living World… full of females is not really a relevant calculation.
Human leader, Sylvari Leader… what about the other races?
Norn leader, they only sort of have a leader, but he’s a guy. If you go by the shamans they’re mostly male.
Charr Tribunes, I believe is 2/3, but I’m also pretty sure the main leader of the Charr is a guy. The fact that Rytlock is getting to count twice is a too bad.
Asura, majority male on the Council.
World Leaders comes out ahead for males.

So it seems that the list is actually coming out primarily even with an emphasis on males.

Lilith Ajit.6173:

DE isn’t even together when we see them. They were always the 6 of them, then one died, and they weren’t DE anymore.

Also no one in the game has met the human gods. They count?

Touché. I just accept the argument because they’re getting desperate and I’ll allow a handicap, especially when it doesn’t actually help.

Kal Spiro.9745:

So I’ll skip ahead to your end argument. Your problem here is you seem to think that equality and balance are the same thing, or even relevant in comparison to each other. If you would go on to quote me you would see I said it isn’t the quantity of them that matters, it’s the quality. They could be all female, as long as they’re all well made, defined and represented characters then the number doesn’t matter.

Except it in so far matters because that’s the exact argument of the OP. I don’t care about how you view the situation. Only how what you say affects the perceived balance. The title of this thread is “no male heroes?” and the OP goes around ranting about perceived equality (or lack of there of) of male leads.

You basically support this by saying Sylvari don’t count because they are girls which they obviously are not. By saying something you instantly negate two significant male personalities: Canach and Trahernia.

Incidentally I am really enjoying how invested you apparently are in this whole dwarves are dudes and elves are chicks debate. I really hope you’re female because it would totally mess with my outlook of the world if you turned out to be a guy. Mostly cause I’m only ever seen other women make these kinds of outbursts against the idea, while guys typically just accept it in stride.

Consider your outlook messed. Also you are missing the point totally. You are pretty good example of a person who says gender stereotypes don’t matter and then goes and says something completely opposite.

Northlander.4619:

Except it in so far matters because that’s the exact argument of the OP. I don’t care about how you view the situation.

They we’re done here. I thought we were having a friendly argument between two, at least somewhat, passionate people. If you don’t care about what I think why should I care about anything you have to say about the situation?

The OP is pointless and wrong. That has been my stance since I first started posting in this thread. There is no point in gauging “values” of characters because that give weight to the premise which was already flawed. If you only care about the numbers and trying to find some fair median then you’re part of the problem and I have no more time for you.

Oh, and I never said gender stereotypes don’t matter. I said gender doesn’t matter.

Evelynddra.9265:

Two things.

1) 45% of people who play video games are women. That’s very nearly half. So this whole “men play ALL the games!” is total junk. Also

2) There was a study done that said if a group of people were 17% of women, men in the group think it’s 50-50. And if there’s 33% women, men think there are more women than men. Which seems fairly relevant since someone above mentioned there were 16 men in the living story to 11 women, yet here we are debating how it’s way more women in the living story.

Also, basing it on the living story and living story alone is stupid. You can’t pick such a small base and make asumtions on it. Even if the living story had more ladies, it doesn’t change the fact that a lot of other prominent NPCs are male.

As a side note, evo psych is just used by jerks to justify their wrong beliefs (like ‘women are just better at house stuff! It’s science!’ or ‘men are just better at everything! It’s science!’).

Your second point interests me. Can i have a source?

Evelynddra.9265:

Two things.

1) 45% of people who play video games are women. That’s very nearly half. So this whole “men play ALL the games!” is total junk. Also

2) There was a study done that said if a group of people were 17% of women, men in the group think it’s 50-50. And if there’s 33% women, men think there are more women than men. Which seems fairly relevant since someone above mentioned there were 16 men in the living story to 11 women, yet here we are debating how it’s way more women in the living story.

Also, basing it on the living story and living story alone is stupid. You can’t pick such a small base and make asumtions on it. Even if the living story had more ladies, it doesn’t change the fact that a lot of other prominent NPCs are male.

As a side note, evo psych is just used by jerks to justify their wrong beliefs (like ‘women are just better at house stuff! It’s science!’ or ‘men are just better at everything! It’s science!’).

Unfortunately your second point conflicts with your first point. Based on your second point, in order for men to think more men play video games than women there would have to be fewer than 17% female players. At 45% men should think only women play video games.

I think an important statistic may be, how many women who play this game are believed to actually be women. People dont believe me until VOIP. A lot of ladies likely dont have or want to be in VOIP.

Kal Spiro.9745:

Evelynddra.9265:

Two things.

1) 45% of people who play video games are women. That’s very nearly half. So this whole “men play ALL the games!” is total junk. Also

2) There was a study done that said if a group of people were 17% of women, men in the group think it’s 50-50. And if there’s 33% women, men think there are more women than men. Which seems fairly relevant since someone above mentioned there were 16 men in the living story to 11 women, yet here we are debating how it’s way more women in the living story.

Also, basing it on the living story and living story alone is stupid. You can’t pick such a small base and make asumtions on it. Even if the living story had more ladies, it doesn’t change the fact that a lot of other prominent NPCs are male.

As a side note, evo psych is just used by jerks to justify their wrong beliefs (like ‘women are just better at house stuff! It’s science!’ or ‘men are just better at everything! It’s science!’).

Unfortunately your second point conflicts with your first point. Based on your second point, in order for men to think more men play video games than women there would have to be fewer than 17% female players. At 45% men should think only women play video games.

But they are not actually seeing the other people behind the computer. This is done on the social reputation of gaming. Which you have to admit, favors men. And it is stigmatized for women to play games – men can talk about gaming, women can’t. So of course they are going to think that very few women play games. They cannot see “behind the avatar.” Plus… there is a large group of males that play as female avatars.

Edit: I would very much like to see a source, also. It does intrigue me.

Infamous Darkness.3284:

zoidberg.7801:

Honestly, it is that big of a deal?
I’m a guy, and it doesn’t bother me at all. Marjory and Kasmeer are two awesome characters, and I want to see more of them. Trahearne is a huge character in the game, and I am glad gw2 is showing more female characters.

Oh god you’re here “With my last breath I curse Zoidberg”...now look to signature and realize irony

muahahaha…

Lilith Ajit.6173:

Evelynddra.9265:

Two things.

1) 45% of people who play video games are women. That’s very nearly half. So this whole “men play ALL the games!” is total junk. Also

2) There was a study done that said if a group of people were 17% of women, men in the group think it’s 50-50. And if there’s 33% women, men think there are more women than men. Which seems fairly relevant since someone above mentioned there were 16 men in the living story to 11 women, yet here we are debating how it’s way more women in the living story.

Also, basing it on the living story and living story alone is stupid. You can’t pick such a small base and make asumtions on it. Even if the living story had more ladies, it doesn’t change the fact that a lot of other prominent NPCs are male.

As a side note, evo psych is just used by jerks to justify their wrong beliefs (like ‘women are just better at house stuff! It’s science!’ or ‘men are just better at everything! It’s science!’).

Your second point interests me. Can i have a source?

I would love to, but unfortunately I don’t have the exact study. I’ve been looking, but I don’t have access to any academic studies, beyond what I can Google. The source of the mention of the study was Genna Davis who heads a institute on gender in media.

http://www.npr.org/templates/transcript/transcript.php?storyId=197390707 – where info came from.
http://www.seejane.org/ – The institute I mentioned.

As for what someone else mentioned. That’s right. These are separate points though. The matter of why men think women don’t play games is different from how men view women in groups, particularly media. As Lorelei said, men don’t actually see women playing.

Kal Spiro.9745:

They we’re done here. I thought we were having a friendly argument between two, at least somewhat, passionate people. If you don’t care about what I think why should I care about anything you have to say about the situation?

You absolutely should not. I’m not some evangelist trying to convert you to my world view. I don’t see any point to be honest.

My original comment was to your post where you (correctly in my opinion) stated that gender should not matter. Then you suddenly pulled the sylvari are girls card and made it pretty clear that gender roles matter to you. You view Sylvari as girls because they don’t fall to masculine gender role or because they appear girly.

My point was for those who thought it might be a valid argument to say Sylvari are not male. You have made your opinion clear on the issue and that’s your opinion. I merely pointed out that it is based on false logic and should have nothing to do with gender imbalance discussion. Sylvari, like elves, have genders.

That should have been end of the discussion but you came back with the “deal with it” post. After this I started wondering what this guy has been smoking to make such an outlandish argument.

Northlander.4619:

Sylvari, like elves, have genders.

They don’t, actually. They’re plants. They don’t reproduce. They have forms they find appealing and even those forms have no baring on anything relating to their outlooks, emotions nor attitudes. They simply are. They don’t even have gender identities because that would be a pointless notion to them, having no concept of what gender really is, nor what it’s for.

Consider that in a very real way all Sylvari are just children. The oldest Sylvari in the world are only in their twenties.

This is from the Wiki for you: here you are
The sylvari are omnivorous humanoid plants. Some sylvari closely resemble humans but with a fey cast to their features such as tilted eyes and pointed ear tips; most display plantlike features such as hard wood for bone structure, have foliage and petals for hair, and bark acting as flesh. Golden sap moves through their veins instead of blood and pollen falls off of them as they move. They are much more slender than the average human and about a head shorter. While sylvari can seemingly absorb sunlight and become rejuvenated, they still must eat and drink to survive.¹ Sylvari do infact have thermoreceptors as referenced by a Sylvari explorer in the Grove. She states that she dislikes Hoelbrak as it is too cold.

Sylvari emerge fully formed from blue fruit pods which grow on the branches of the Pale Tree. Their “gender” is selected by the Pale Tree prior to emergence and is distinguished by the same general features as human genders.² It is unknown whether the sylvari die of old age as sylvari have only died through violence, poison or disease so far and no sylvari has shown signs of aging.³ When a sylvari is harmed, instead of scarring tissue they heal via tendrils and expanding bark, but heal at the same general rate as humans.³ All sylvari have luminescent cells in their skin, causing them to glow in the dark.

Prior to emergence they share a bond through the Pale Tree which they call the Dream of Dreams. In this dream a growing sylvari is exposed to the consciousness of the Pale Tree and the vast pool of knowledge and memories of what every other sylvari has thought and learned of the world. When they emerge a portion of this knowledge remains with them, including basic wisdom and understanding from the Pale Tree and a small fraction of what other sylvari have seen and experienced, though this rarely includes specific memories. After emergence the bond with the Pale Tree is weaker but it links all sylvari and, to an extent, other plants. On rare occasion twins can emerge from the same pod and they exhibit a greater empathy toward one another.

Kal Spiro.9745:

They don’t, actually. They’re plants. They don’t reproduce. They have forms they find appealing and even those forms have no baring on anything relating to their outlooks, emotions nor attitudes. They simply are. They don’t even have gender identities because that would be a pointless notion to them, having no concept of what gender really is, nor what it’s for.

…and now you are just baiting. Nice try though.

The numbers people are listing for the living story characters seem inaccurate, especially as they apparently note every minor character not related to the story. What next? We start counting displaced Grawl from Flame & Frost?

These are all the important characters in the living story and the number of appearances to date as best as I can tell, please correct me if I am wrong. I am excluding cameo’s that do not affect the living story, like Logan/Eir etc. This is main characters only or characters important to the story arc.

Living Story Characters

Ellen Kiel (9)
Levvi (1)
Rox (5)
Ottilia (2)
Lady Kasmeer Meade (5)
Marjory Delaqua (2)
Mai Trin (2)
Scarlet Briar (3)
Caithe (1)

Magnus the Bloody Handed (1)
Canach (3)
Subdirector Noll (1)
Braham Eirsson (6)
Lord Faren (2)
Evon Gnashblade (3)
Emissary Vorpp (1)

Fesitvals (Do not count as not part of the living story)
Tixx & Toxx
Moto & crew
Mad King Thorn, Bloody Prince, Magister Tassi

Source;
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Living_World_summary

Nine/seven in favour of female, not a big deal at all. But when you consider which of those are critically important recurring NPC’s, or which are heroes/villains and you do start to see an issue.

Villain
Canach, Subdirector Noll, Evon Gnashblade

Mai Trin, Scarlet Briar

Hero
Braham Eirsson, Emissary Vorpp

Ellen Kiel, Caithe, Rox, Lady Kasmeer Meade, Marjory Delaqua

Definitely a preference towards female heroes, I do not mind having so many quality female NPC’s my problem is the lack of male counterparts, the only consistent male hero we have in the living story is Braham who has not been in the last several living story updates. He is not an overly popular character and is quite the idiot, personally I do not find him relatable and I am sure I am not alone in that opinion, especially after reading many of the posts here. In many ways he is essentially a Logan clone, a man with lady woes but much more dumb.

Simply put, we do need more male heroes, I would even settle with just one, perhaps modeled after Tybalt or Forgal as they have strong personalities and quite well liked by the fans.

Infamous Darkness.3284:

Their “gender” is selected by the Pale Tree prior to emergence and is distinguished by the same general features as human genders.²

I like that gender is in quotes, denoting that it is not a real thing. Basically this whole line says that they look like they have genders, but they really don’t. Which is what I said.

Kal Spiro.9745:

Infamous Darkness.3284:

Their “gender” is selected by the Pale Tree prior to emergence and is distinguished by the same general features as human genders.²

I like that gender is in quotes, denoting that it is not a real thing. Basically this whole line says that they look like they have genders, but they really don’t. Which is what I said.

+1

Aedelric.1287:

The numbers people are listing for the living story characters seem inaccurate, especially as they apparently note every minor character not related to the story. What next? We start counting displaced Grawl from Flame & Frost?

These are all the important characters in the living story and the number of appearances to date as best as I can tell, please correct me if I am wrong. I am excluding cameo’s that do not affect the living story, like Logan/Eir etc. This is main characters only or characters important to the story arc.

Living Story Characters

Ellen Kiel (9)
Levvi (1)
Rox (5)
Ottilia (2)
Lady Kasmeer Meade (5)
Marjory Delaqua (2)
Mai Trin (2)
Scarlet Briar (3)
Caithe (1)

Magnus the Bloody Handed (1)
Canach (3)
Subdirector Noll (1)
Braham Eirsson (6)
Lord Faren (2)
Evon Gnashblade (3)
Emissary Vorpp (1)

Fesitvals (Do not count as not part of the living story)
Tixx & Toxx
Moto & crew
Mad King Thorn, Bloody Prince, Magister Tassi

Source;
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Living_World_summary

Nine/seven in favour of female, not a big deal at all. But when you consider which of those are critically important recurring NPC’s, or which are heroes/villains and you do start to see an issue.

Villain
Canach, Subdirector Noll, Evon Gnashblade

Mai Trin, Scarlet Briar

Hero
Braham Eirsson, Emissary Vorpp

Ellen Kiel, Caithe, Rox, Lady Kasmeer Meade, Marjory Delaqua

Definitely a preference towards female heroes, I do not mind having so many quality female NPC’s my problem is the lack of male counterparts, the only consistent male hero we have in the living story is Braham who has not been in the last several living story updates. He is not an overly popular character and is quite the idiot, personally I do not find him relatable and I am sure I am not alone in that opinion, especially after reading many of the posts here. In many ways he is essentially a Logan clone, a man with lady woes but much more dumb.

Simply put, we do need more male heroes, I would even settle with just one, perhaps modeled after Tybalt or Forgal as they have strong personalities and quite well liked by the fans.

Caithe shouldn’t be considered a Living Story Hero. She’s only shown up as part of the dungeon, for which she was already a part. Kasmeer should also not be considered a hero because she’s a sidekick. That makes your list even. Yay random and pointless maths.

Kal Spiro.9745:

Infamous Darkness.3284:

Their “gender” is selected by the Pale Tree prior to emergence and is distinguished by the same general features as human genders.²

I like that gender is in quotes, denoting that it is not a real thing. Basically this whole line says that they look like they have genders, but they really don’t. Which is what I said.

you are making it out like I’m disagreeing with you while all I am trying to do is provide (preserve in some cases in this thread) the lore and watch the argument as it is quite enjoyable to me. Or maybe I’m just reading too much into what you are saying.

Infamous Darkness.3284:

Kal Spiro.9745:

Infamous Darkness.3284:

Their “gender” is selected by the Pale Tree prior to emergence and is distinguished by the same general features as human genders.²

I like that gender is in quotes, denoting that it is not a real thing. Basically this whole line says that they look like they have genders, but they really don’t. Which is what I said.

you are making it out like I’m disagreeing with you while all I am trying to do is provide (preserve in some cases in this thread) the lore and watch the argument as it is quite enjoyable to me. Or maybe I’m just reading too much into what you are saying.

Ah, well regardless of my actual intentions, I was just indicating that the lore agrees with me, then.

Kal Spiro.9745:

Caithe shouldn’t be considered a Living Story Hero. She’s only shown up as part of the dungeon, for which she was already a part. Kasmeer should also not be considered a hero because she’s a sidekick.

You fought beside both and both are important to the story, if I remove them then I should start removing characters like Emissary Vorpp who is not overly important and you did not fight alongside.

Infamous, i think the latter is Kal’s meaning… Also, kal, kudos to the “random and pointless maths” that is exactly what this thread is about. Fake numbers to find something to be b*tthurt about.

Aedelric.1287:

Kal Spiro.9745:

Caithe shouldn’t be considered a Living Story Hero. She’s only shown up as part of the dungeon, for which she was already a part. Kasmeer should also not be considered a hero because she’s a sidekick.

You fought beside both and both are important to the story, if I remove them then I should start removing characters like Emissary Vorpp who is not overly important and you did not fight alongside.

Yeah, too many people think that numbers and ratios care about subjective things like a players perspective of a character.

Hmm… yes.

I think we need our very own over the top cheesy heroic gentleman adventurer character. Something like Othar Tryggvassen, Gentleman Adventurer.