Guild Wars 2

It has probably been said way before this post but since I can’t search for it I’ll just grab opinions here^^

There are 6 human gods and 6 elder dragons and each dragon can be associated with a god. Sometimes it is obvious and their magical effects are really close. Here’s an association proposition :

• Primordius : Balthazar, super obvious. He is the god of (among other) fire and the leader, Primordius seems to be the leader too.

• Kralkatorik : Lyssa, I think it is obvious too. His impact left purple shiny magical effects everywhere, some plants are even doing mini chaos storms.

• Mordemoth : Melandru. She is the goddess of the wild and its big creatures, plants and animals alike, there couldn’t be a better fit.

The next ones are less obvious but can still make sense.

• Zhaitan : Grenth will be my choice here although it is not that easy. Grenth is also associated with water and ice, anything that is cold in GW1 lore although he shares that role with Dwayna. The thing is, he is the best fit for Zhaitan IMO since Dwayna cannot fit and Abbadon has nothing to do with death.

• Jormag : Dwayna. Maybe it is a long shot, Dwayna can be associated with ice since she is Grenth’s mother and the goddess of air (cold air makes ice if there is water ?) but it’s far from being a perfect match, I would have said Bubbles if I didn’t prefer Abbadon for it.

• Bubbles : Abbadon. This is the only dragon we know nothing about and Abbadon was the god of secrets and water… This is the only god that is officially deceased and this is the only dragon that has close to no impact on the world today. I think I’ve read that some species had to flee from the deep sea but it could be the work of Zhaitan or Jormag IMO. So it either fits the secret aspect perfectly or is as dead as its associated god.

I’ll leave Kormir out of the equation : she was here way too late to have anything to do with elder dragons.

Now what should we think of this ? Are elder dragons evil forms of the gods who disappeared to turn into dragons ? Are they there antagonists that were defeated and sealed within Tyria ? Maybe that is how the gods brought magic to Tyria in the first place.

Your thoughts ?

PS : sorry I didn’t check every lore aspect before posting, it’s just my memory speaking so if I made any mistake please correct me !

This has come up so many times I’ve lost count.

The problem is that while there are a couple of apparent links (Primordus to Balthazar, Mordremoth to Melandru) after that the fits become increasingly long shots. Another problem is that while the gods are associated with elements, for them the abstract concept they represent comes first, and they’re associated with an element because that element is associated with the concept. For the dragons, the element comes first.

Even the obvious ones aren’t holding up that well to scrutiny, to be honest. For instance, Melandru is the goddess of all nature, plants and animals alike. The only animals we’ve seen used by Mordremoth are animals that are being used as puppets by animate vines (look closely at the corpse of a Mordrem wolf, such as after the attack on the Pale Tree). Considering that Zhaitan, Jormag and Krlakatorrik all corrupt animals freely, this suggests that Mordremoth may in fact have an antipathy to corrupting animals.

Incidentally:

First, it’s been confirmed that the DSD was responsible for driving the krait out. Neither Jormag’s minions nor Zhaitan’s go that deep, at least in the southern seas. There are still signs of quaggan and krait being pushed TOO Orr when we get there attacking Zhaitan – if it was Zhaitain pushing them out, they’d be going into the deep ocean south of Orr, not swimming past it on the way north.

Second, we know how the gods brought magic – they interfered with an artifact that the Seers created in order to absorb magic and hide it from the dragons. An artifact they later broke into pieces to create the Bloodstones.

Very interesting answer, thank you very much ! Especially for your correction on those two points

Of course the links are not that strong but I still find them too strong to be totally dismissed. I find them good as antagonists and that could explain the differences : they are playing on the same field as their associated god but with different goal/ethics.

I’ll address things in order. Like Drax said, this has been brought up – and pretty much shot down – innumerable times.

1. Primordus is no leader, no more than any other Elder Dragon. The Elder Dragons are not enemies, per se, but they are not allies. Primordus was merely the first to wake up. And Balthazar isn’t the leader of the Six Gods – Dwayna is.
2. “Kralkatorrik=Lyssa” – you’re not the first to suggest such, however, aside from the color purple (which Abaddon also shares) there is no real tie between the two. Lyssa is purple, yes, but she is beauty and illusion; Kralktorrik is crystal and lightning. Hardly a similarity.
3. Mordremoth has no ties to animals, other than using them with parasitic-like plant minions (Mordrem Wolf and seemingly the new tall Mordrem in the trailer – looks like fungus is growing on some troll-like animal).
4. Dwayna has nothing associated with cold, so I’m not sure why you say “anything that is cold in GW1 lore although he shares that role with Dwayna”.
5. There’s no connection between Jormag and Dwayna – people have tried suggesting that Jormag is wind, not ice, because of blizzard and he’s in the mountains, but this is false as his corruption takes form as ice. And yes, Dwayna is air, but she’s related to soothing air, and warmth. She brings an end to coldness (she brings spring after winter).
6. The DSD does have noticeable impact on the world. As drax pointed out, it was the DSD that pushed the krait, quaggan, largos, and karka into Tyria.
7. You used Grenth earlier, but now you use Abaddon. This doesn’t really work. Because Kormir has no ties to water – Lyssa took that when Kormir ascended. If you use Abaddon, you should be using Dhuum, who has no ties to ice and whom you ignore completely yet you choose to ignore Kormir because “she was here way too late to have anything to do with elder dragons.”
8. On that note: ALL gods were here “way too late to have anything to do with elder dragons”. The Six Gods arrived on Tyria well after the Elder Dragons fell asleep. The Elder Dragons predate the Six Gods by tens of thousands of years (the Six Gods arrived after they fell asleep last time, but the Elder Dragons have had at least two previous awakenings – putting them to be at least 20,000 years old, if not 30,000 years old at least).

Are elder dragons evil forms of the gods who disappeared to turn into dragons ?
They are separate entities. Six Gods come from another world entirely, while the Elder Dragons have “always been here” (words of Jeff Grubb on the ED always being on Tyria).

Are they there antagonists that were defeated and sealed within Tyria ?
They fell asleep due to starvation. They consumed all magic (they could reach) in the world and fell to sleep to let it regrow. That is their cycle. Their previous awakening ended sooner than usual due to the Bloodstone though.

Maybe that is how the gods brought magic to Tyria in the first place.
Technically, the gods didn’t. The seers sealed all ambient magic not corrupted by the Elder Dragons into the original Bloodstone; the Six Gods found the Bloodstone after they arrived on the world, and released the magic from within.

Isn’t it so that the Gods can take over each others aspects when needed? I believe Grenth took over Water (and renamed it Ice) when Abaddon was cast down. (A quick search didn’t turn up any written proof though, so correct me if I’m wrong)

Taking that into account, shouldn’t any attempt to connect the Gods to the Elder Dragons start with the original Gods? At the very least Grenth and Kormir had predecessors that we know of, there could be more hidden in history.

(Not taking a stand on whether there is a connection, I just think the current discussion shouldn’t be about things that are known to have changed relatively recent)

Grenth was tied to ice when he was a half-god, as well as his earliest mention as God in 48 BE, 49 years before Abaddon’s fall. And while not called goddess of water yet, Lyssa had ties to water before Kormir’s rise (Mirror of Lyss in Vabbi was a big lake beneath a temple to Lyssa). Dhuum, it should be noted, has no me.tion of ties to ice, nor does Kormir to water.

Abaddon had a predecessor too, though we don’t know who it was. Theories point to the god named in the GW.dat: Arachnia.

The gods and the dragons both number six. I think that they are certainly connected and not coincidental, but attempts to do a straight up one to one transcription of gods to dragons has far too many problems to be conceivable.

A more likely explanation is that the Mists have many worlds and all worlds have six gods. The form and spheres may be different in each world, but the overall role of regulating magic is likely the same.

Perhaps the human gods failed to regulate magic in their world and now wander the Mists looking for a new home?

Maybe the destruction of their world freed them to walk about the Mists and interfere in other worlds as they see fit?

Or perhaps dragons are the result of a dead god’s power not being absorbed?

We’ve got a lot of avenues to explore that have better potential than the “gods and dragons are the same guys!” route.

What bothers me most is Lyssa’s statue that somehow resembles a largos or a dragon-like entity. Might be a hint, might be something else, I don’t know.

VergilDeZaniah.3295:

What bothers me most is Lyssa’s statue that somehow resembles a largos or a dragon-like entity. Might be a hint, might be something else, I don’t know.

That’s Dwayna’s statue not Lyssa.

Originally, the model now used for the Risen Priestess of Dwayna was to be for female risen largos.

The statue uses the same model but different textures.

So naturally it’d look like a largos, since it’s just recycling of made-but-scrapped models. Most likely it was to be used for the largos in Malchor’s Leap – near the quaggan and risenKrait. Amalia or some such. Since the largos gets captured in the event chain (if failure).

Konig Des Todes.2086:

1. Primordus is no leader, no more than any other Elder Dragon. The Elder Dragons are not enemies, per se, but they are not allies. Primordus was merely the first to wake up. And Balthazar isn’t the leader of the Six Gods – Dwayna is.

I bet the dragon’s relationship with each other might be close the god’s : well known entities of the same kind that will not interfere with each other unless needed (Grenth and Dwayna confront each other every Windersday for instance).

You’re right, Balthazar is no leader but I’m not sure Dwayna is, I tried to check and read that she was the first to come to Tyria but no mentioning of any leadership.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

1. “Kralkatorrik=Lyssa” – you’re not the first to suggest such, however, aside from the color purple (which Abaddon also shares) there is no real tie between the two. Lyssa is purple, yes, but she is beauty and illusion; Kralktorrik is crystal and lightning. Hardly a similarity.

Lyssa is also chaos and non elemental energy, isn’t she ? I think Kralkatorrik could very embody those aspects.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

1. Mordremoth has no ties to animals, other than using them with parasitic-like plant minions (Mordrem Wolf and seemingly the new tall Mordrem in the trailer – looks like fungus is growing on some troll-like animal).

That’s already a tie IMO. He’s also related to animals in a way but in a different way.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

1. Dwayna has nothing associated with cold, so I’m not sure why you say “anything that is cold in GW1 lore although he shares that role with Dwayna”.

That was just my mistake : as I said, only my memories and those were from when I read the GW1 booklet in 2007

Konig Des Todes.2086:

1. There’s no connection between Jormag and Dwayna – people have tried suggesting that Jormag is wind, not ice, because of blizzard and he’s in the mountains, but this is false as his corruption takes form as ice. And yes, Dwayna is air, but she’s related to soothing air, and warmth. She brings an end to coldness (she brings spring after winter).

This is the point that really matters I think, this link really holds no water indeed :/

Konig Des Todes.2086:

1. The DSD does have noticeable impact on the world. As drax pointed out, it was the DSD that pushed the krait, quaggan, largos, and karka into Tyria.

My bad and thank you for correcting me again

Konig Des Todes.2086:

1. You used Grenth earlier, but now you use Abaddon. This doesn’t really work. Because Kormir has no ties to water – Lyssa took that when Kormir ascended. If you use Abaddon, you should be using Dhuum, who has no ties to ice and whom you ignore completely yet you choose to ignore Kormir because “she was here way too late to have anything to do with elder dragons.”

There’s probably a mistake in the beginning because it doesn’t make sense. Abaddon has nothing to do with Grenth or Dhuum so I don’t really what is the problem here. I don’t mention Dhuum because his powers were transfered to Grenth so it is probably close to being the same aspect, their difference is more a matter of personality.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

1. On that note: ALL gods were here “way too late to have anything to do with elder dragons”. The Six Gods arrived on Tyria well after the Elder Dragons fell asleep. The Elder Dragons predate the Six Gods by tens of thousands of years (the Six Gods arrived after they fell asleep last time, but the Elder Dragons have had at least two previous awakenings – putting them to be at least 20,000 years old, if not 30,000 years old at least).

I had no idea about that, thanks

Thanks to your corrections I can see how there cannot be such straight connections but only Dwayna/Jormag is completely irrelevant IMO, all other associations are still legitimate to me.

If I wanted to go further I could try to tie Dwayna with Zhaitan : goddess of life and a dragon that can bring life to dead bodies… Grenth’s ice aspect would match Jormag. But I see how far the connections would be and won’t try to defend that^^

That was a refreshing lore lesson for me, very interesting ! I’ll keep these ideas and information in mind in the future releases

Lyndis.4653:

I bet the dragon’s relationship with each other might be close the god’s : well known entities of the same kind that will not interfere with each other unless needed (Grenth and Dwayna confront each other every Windersday for instance).

You’re right, Balthazar is no leader but I’m not sure Dwayna is, I tried to check and read that she was the first to come to Tyria but no mentioning of any leadership.

One the first, the Six Gods are very much allied (in most cases). They even lived in the same city. Unlike the ELder Dragons whom are all compared to apex predators – thus avoid each other.

And yes, Dwayna is mentioned – many times, in fact – to be the leader of the gods. The earliest ever piece of lore on Dwayna, the Prophecies manual, as well as all other GW1 manuals, state this outright. Quoting the Prophecies manual:

The goddess of life and air, Dwayna is the even-tempered leader of the old gods. Her followers are mainly healing Monks and Elementalists specializing in air magic (though in times of war, there are few denizens of Tyria who have not let fly a prayer to the Winged Goddess to spare them or their loved ones). Dwayna is often depicted as young, tall, and slender rising over the ground on huge feathered wings.

Such used to be on the GW1 wiki but it was removed for god knows what reason Santax had.

The confrontation between Grenth and Dwayna is hardly any form of rivalry, by the way, but seems to be a dispute of opposing viewpoints.

Lyndis.4653:

Lyssa is also chaos and non elemental energy, isn’t she ? I think Kralkatorrik could very embody those aspects.

Kralkatorrik is not chaos, and he is very much elemental – he directly utilizes lightning and becomes sandstorms, his blood is crystal (earth), and his minions use flame, lightning, crystal, and soil/rock attacks.

And I wouldn’t say that Lyssa is “non-elemental energy” at all, as that’s a very wide-spread topic (we have light energy, dark energy, chaos energy, dragon energy, on top of the elemental aspects). Not to mention that she is tied to water – though in a different way than Abaddon.

Abaddon was the god of the everlasting depths. His affiliation to water was the deep, dark, seemingly eternal waters that held unknown knowledge and secrets.

Lyssa’s affiliation with water lies on the surface – the reflective quality that water gives, that similarity to mirrors. Which ties to her concept of beauty.

Lyndis.4653:

That’s already a tie IMO. He’s also related to animals in a way but in a different way.

I wouldn’t say a parasitic plant controlling a corpse of an animal is in any way a “relation to animals”.

Zhaitan, Jormag, and Kralkatorrik hold far more of a relation to animals than Mordremoth does.

Lyndis.4653:

There’s probably a mistake in the beginning because it doesn’t make sense. Abaddon has nothing to do with Grenth or Dhuum so I don’t really what is the problem here. I don’t mention Dhuum because his powers were transfered to Grenth so it is probably close to being the same aspect, their difference is more a matter of personality.

You use Grenth – the latest of the gods in the God of Death lineage – but yet you use Abaddon – the middle of the three known gods in his lineage.

If you use Grenth, you should use Kormir rather than Abaddon.

If you use Abaddon, then really you should be using Dhuum and Abaddon’s unnamed predecessor.

You kick Kormir out of the equation because she’s “too new” but wouldn’t Grenth also be too new? Dhuum and Grenth, while both gods of death, have everything else to them being different – just as Abaddon and Kormir, while both gods of knowledge, have everything else being different.

That was why I brought up Grenth and Dhuum.

(continued in next post)

Lyndis.4653:

Thanks to your corrections I can see how there cannot be such straight connections but only Dwayna/Jormag is completely irrelevant IMO, all other associations are still legitimate to me.

If I wanted to go further I could try to tie Dwayna with Zhaitan : goddess of life and a dragon that can bring life to dead bodies… Grenth’s ice aspect would match Jormag. But I see how far the connections would be and won’t try to defend that^^

But Dhuum doesn’t have any connection to ice. Just as Kormir doesn’t have connection to water. You push off Kormir for her youth, but would Grenth not be just as “too young”? Sure, he may be a millenia older than Kormir, but Dhuum is how much older than Grenth? And the Elder Dragons how much older than Grenth?

IMO, if you want to try to connect the gods to something, you need to look at all generations.

And when you do, you see the norn’s viewpoint of the Six Gods being very truthful and direct on what the gods are. The norn view the Six Gods as “Spirits of Action” and call them not by their names, but by what they represent. In this, we’re told they call Kormir “Knowledge”, Grenth is “Death”, and Balthazar is “War.” We don’t know what the norn would call Dwayna, Melandru, and Lyssa, but I suspect it to be Life, Nature, and Beauty personally (those are their most basic and action-related concepts; illusion is, like fire for balthazar or ice for Grenth, used to emphasize the concept of beauty – for example, the Scriptures of Lyssa focus on the inner beauty seen beyond the external illusion).

So, in my opinion, if you go about trying to make a tie of the Six Gods to anything, what you should be looking for in connections is:

Life, Nature, War, Death, Beauty, and Knowledge

Not the aspects like water and ice that disappear and appear across the generations. Stick to what remains constant amongst the gods.

And when you take the Elder Dragons, you have:

Undeath, Vegetation, Fire, Ice, Crystal, and Water

And when you look at that… the only connections you could possibly argue, is Nature and Death (or Life).

Hmmm… actually, with some string pulling, I could see a potential tie to all six… this needs further thoughts.

But in all honesty, it really feels like rather than parallels, the Elder Dragons complete the concepts of life that the Six Gods’ primary aspects begin to show. Because by combining, rather than comparing, you have “Life, Death, and Undeath” which feels much more complete than just “Undeath” (the oddball of the group of Elder Dragons) or “Life and Death” (though in ‘natural’ cases, this would be complete… if you exclude rebirth – and what is undeath if not simply rebirth in the same body?).

Konig Des Todes.2086:

I wouldn’t say a parasitic plant controlling a corpse of an animal is in any way a “relation to animals”.

Zhaitan, Jormag, and Kralkatorrik hold far more of a relation to animals than Mordremoth does.

To be frank, this seems to be a case of preference – both Zhaitan and Kralkatorrik have corrupted plants, and Primordus is capable of corrupting creatures, not just fire and stone. Still, majority of active risen and branded are animals and people (well, in case of branded, it is just mostly whatever was under the dragon’s path…), and destroyers pushing up from depths are made of fire and stone. I’d guess that Mordremoth’s corruption takes hold on plantlife easier than it does on animals, but most likely both are possible. And if we don’t think of sylvari as exactly plantlife, we already may have had precedent.

Which was, actually, a point I was making. Though I realize that I only left it half said.

The Elder Dragons’ elements are “what their corruption takes the form of”. And no Elder Dragon has “animals” as their form of corruption.

And we really don’t know if Mordremoth’s minions are corrupted plants, or plants that he created out of something else. Exception being Aerin and Ceara, naturally.

I see, I had no idea of the actual timeline of the gods or about the Norn’s perspective on the matter.

You seem to be really passionate about the lore and I wish I could get my facts straight, is there any read you could suggest me in order to do so ?

For the record, I’m inclined to say Lyssa is probably Inspiration rather than Beauty. Beauty connects to inspiration as beauty can both be a source and a product of inspiration; however, inspiration also ties to Lyssa’s other aspects (chaos, for instance, as inspiration is often chaotic and unexpected as opposed to the more orderly structure of Knowledge).

Tuomir.1830:

Konig Des Todes.2086:

I wouldn’t say a parasitic plant controlling a corpse of an animal is in any way a “relation to animals”.

Zhaitan, Jormag, and Kralkatorrik hold far more of a relation to animals than Mordremoth does.

To be frank, this seems to be a case of preference – both Zhaitan and Kralkatorrik have corrupted plants, and Primordus is capable of corrupting creatures, not just fire and stone. Still, majority of active risen and branded are animals and people (well, in case of branded, it is just mostly whatever was under the dragon’s path…), and destroyers pushing up from depths are made of fire and stone. I’d guess that Mordremoth’s corruption takes hold on plantlife easier than it does on animals, but most likely both are possible. And if we don’t think of sylvari as exactly plantlife, we already may have had precedent.

Such preference, however, seems to indicate that Mordremoth’s affinity is with plants alone, not nature as a whole – otherwise, it would use both kingdoms rather than just one.

Xukavi.4320:

VergilDeZaniah.3295:

What bothers me most is Lyssa’s statue that somehow resembles a largos or a dragon-like entity. Might be a hint, might be something else, I don’t know.

That’s Dwayna’s statue not Lyssa.

And it’s written in the link itself, stupid me. Let’s say it was late and I was tired! xD

draxynnic.3719:

For the record, I’m inclined to say Lyssa is probably Inspiration rather than Beauty. Beauty connects to inspiration as beauty can both be a source and a product of inspiration; however, inspiration also ties to Lyssa’s other aspects (chaos, for instance, as inspiration is often chaotic and unexpected as opposed to the more orderly structure of Knowledge).

While I can see this making sense, Lyssa is best known as the goddess of beauty and illusions. In fact, she’s never referred to as the goddess of inspiration.

Abaddon was the god of water. That’s y the margonites , a sea fairing race, worshiped him

Konig Des Todes.2086:

draxynnic.3719:

For the record, I’m inclined to say Lyssa is probably Inspiration rather than Beauty. Beauty connects to inspiration as beauty can both be a source and a product of inspiration; however, inspiration also ties to Lyssa’s other aspects (chaos, for instance, as inspiration is often chaotic and unexpected as opposed to the more orderly structure of Knowledge).

While I can see this making sense, Lyssa is best known as the goddess of beauty and illusions. In fact, she’s never referred to as the goddess of inspiration.

She is associated with inspiration at times, though, for instance, in the Gate of Madness blessing. Inspiration also ties together all of Lyssa’s aspects, while you can’t link them all to beauty or illusion without going through Inspiration. It may not be in any of the two- or three-word lists, but then, neither is Knowledge in Kormir’s – she’s described in GW2 as the goddess of order, spirit, and truth. The core concept is there, but it’s buried beneath the other aspects.

The complicating factor is that for the other gods, you have a single god that represents their core ideal. In Lyssa, though, we have Lyss and Ilya sharing the mantle. As part of their dual nature, they’ve taken different aspects of the core concept – we don’t know which is which, but one has taken Beauty, the other Illusion. So when humans think of Lyssa, they’re thinking of ‘the twin goddesses of beauty and illusion’ or simply ‘the god of beauty and illusion’ – even though both are actually derivatives of Lyssa’s core concept, not the core concept itself.

It’s analogous, I think, to Kormir and Abaddon having different takes on the ‘knowledge’ concept. Abaddon’s creed of ‘act with magic, act within reason, act without mercy’ implies that pre-rebellion his take on Knowledge was one of logic and reason trumping emotion and empathy, possibly to the point of sociopathy. Post-imprisonment, he became the god of forbidden knowledge, secrets, and madness. Kormir’s take, on the other hand, seems to focus on spirituality, the search for an overall truth rather than mere facts. These are all different takes on the core concept of ‘knowledge’.

In Lyss and Ilya, we have two complimentary takes on the same core concept operating simultaneously. Neither beauty nor illusion are the core concept, because that would be putting one as superior to the other – they’re different aspects of the same core concept. And of the various traits associated with Lyssa – beauty, illusion, inspiration, chaos, water, emotion, the arts – I think inspiration is the one that best ties them all together.

Inc.4753:

Isn’t it so that the Gods can take over each others aspects when needed? I believe Grenth took over Water (and renamed it Ice) when Abaddon was cast down. (A quick search didn’t turn up any written proof though, so correct me if I’m wrong)

Taking that into account, shouldn’t any attempt to connect the Gods to the Elder Dragons start with the original Gods? At the very least Grenth and Kormir had predecessors that we know of, there could be more hidden in history.

(Not taking a stand on whether there is a connection, I just think the current discussion shouldn’t be about things that are known to have changed relatively recent)

If we are going to look at predecessor then we might aswell look at Arachnia the predecssor of Abaddon. An insectoid god because why not.

Arachnia is not confirmed as canon.

Maybe the Facets in the The Path to Revelations quest in eotn are hints to the true nature of the gods power?

Although some of these are good ideas, and I love the train of thought, I have a feeling that it is much more simple than that. There are 6 gods, and 6 dragons. There is little known about the 6 gods, and even less about the dragons. We do know that the last batch of gods, were not the only ones, and in fact had predessors. The only thing we do know about the dragons, is that they woke up about 20,000 years ago, and have been around for forever.

So I’m thinking that both the dragons and gods can be seen as a type of Yin and Yang. They balance each other out. The gods brought/bring magic to Tyria, and the dragons consume it. The gods are the guardians of Tyria representing the peoples/creature on the earth (i.e. life, death, illusion, beauty, etc.) while the dragons are the antagonists, representing the earth itself (i.e. Plants, nature, elements, etc.) Its an eternal war that cannot be won by either side. The dragons wake up, cause mass destruction, and devour magic, then go back to sleep. The gods arrive, bring magic and restoration to the races of Tyria, then leave. Then after so many eons, the cycle begins again.

pdavis.8031:

So I’m thinking that both the dragons and gods can be seen as a type of Yin and Yang. They balance each other out. The gods brought/bring magic to Tyria, and the dragons consume it. The gods are the guardians of Tyria representing the peoples/creature on the earth (i.e. life, death, illusion, beauty, etc.) while the dragons are the antagonists, representing the earth itself (i.e. Plants, nature, elements, etc.) Its an eternal war that cannot be won by either side. The dragons wake up, cause mass destruction, and devour magic, then go back to sleep. The gods arrive, bring magic and restoration to the races of Tyria, then leave. Then after so many eons, the cycle begins again.

Several of holes in this theory…

• Neither the Six or the human race are native to Tyria. To the best of our knowledge, the first time they arrived on Tyria was only 1500(ish) years ago. The Elder Dragons, on the other hand, have been around for much much longer.

• The Six didn’t bring magic to Tyria. The magic has always been around and apart of Tyria. During the last rise of the Elder Dragons though, the Seers locked away most, if not all, the uncorrupted in Tyria into the Bloodstone, therefore forcing the Elder Dragons to starve and making them go into hibernation. The Six only released the sealed magic back into the world during their “Gift of Magic”.

• The Elder Dragons are already seemingly balance magic themselves. The difference being they balance on the extremes over long periods of time. The Elder Dragons consume magic, but once the magical levels of Tyria are low they fall into hibernation. During hibernation, the Elder Dragon slowly leak/radiate uncorrupted magic back into the world. Once the magical levels are high again, they awaken, consume the magic, probably start to starve again, and they then go back to sleep. Rinse and repeat.

Deleena.3406:

Maybe the Facets in the The Path to Revelations quest in eotn are hints to the true nature of the gods power?

From what I heard, the prophecy at the end of that quest chain was foreshadowing for Arah and Zhaitan. I wouldn’t be all that surprised if the Facets had to deal with the time the Six unknowingly tapped into Zhaitan’s power to tinker with the Bloodstone.

Erukk.1408:

Neither the Six or the human race are native to Tyria. To the best of our knowledge, the first time they arrived on Tyria was only 1500(ish) years ago.

Closer to 2,500, most likely. The first known history of humanity is in 786 BE. 786 + Year 0 + 1327 = 2114 years since humanity landed on Cantha. They arrived on the world before this. I personally place it at the human’s markings of when the Forgotten were “brought to the world by the gods”: 1769 BE. Thus humanity would have developed for ~1,000 years before sailing to new lands on their own (no records of god involvement in the various cultures that sailed and landed on other continents ala the Pilgrims coming on the Mayflower, etc.).

But yes, certainly younger than the ~20,000/30,000 years age that has currently been attributed to the Elder Dragons.

No connection whatsoever.

“Six Gods=Six Elder Dragons” is most likely invalid.

But it’s important part of an ancient incantation summoning Konig to the topic.

:)

Ok I don’t know if you have played the new living story yet (spoiler alerts) but I found a book in the Durmond Priory story step that deals with this subject. I can’t remember the exact wording of the quote but it essence is says That there is many discussions about the connections of the 6 gods and the dragons, however there is no proof of any such connections.

Might want to check it out. All sorts of great information there

That book is just a reference to the lore forum threads like this one that try to create a connection, but fail to.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

That book is just a reference to the lore forum threads like this one that try to create a connection, but fail to.

Thats what I was thinking it was too. :P However, it is something IN game that one can point to as evidence of no connections. (IF they choose to interpret it that way). Either way, I am looking forward to going back and reading ALL the books.

It’s just evidence of no proven connection – and no proven lack of connection. Exactly as it has been.

It has changed nothing.

There is a connection between the gods and the dragons. The connection is simple. After the five races make heavy sacrifices to seal up all magic so that the dragons will go into hibernation, the humans and their false “gods” come and release the magic so that the dragons eventually reawaken. Humans, are either dragon minions, or dumber than rocks.

Either way, all humans must die and the magic must be resealed. This silliness of going around and killing dragons will only result in failure.