Guild Wars 2

slinkiestyew.6823:

Yet life seems goes on unfazed, and all the race-leaders are small-minded naive children, who won’t listen to us despite our very established title (assuming the completion of the personal story) or even personal friendships with them until we play fetch-quest for them.

Seeing as how everyone is constantly being attacked I’m guessing they’re somewhat desensitized. In fact the only race not actively being attacked by dragon minions is the humans and they’ve got centaur hordes trying to kill them. Norn are busy fighting off the Icebrood, the Charr are fighting ghosts and branded, the Sylvari are fighting Nightmare Court and Risen and the Asura are fighting Inquest and a couple of risen as well. It’s hard to redirect your military forces from an active threat to an possible future threat.

I just finished regular PS, and I had that feeling as well. Especially when I was doing the last quests in Orr, because generally speaking Orr is a burial to all who lived here, not to mention that dead are unrest as well due to the Zhaitans magic. Yet almost every character I’ve met was in a good mood, some of them were even joking around, or treated giant undead dragon and his army like it was thing they overcome on daily basis.

Again, Orr is quite dark place itslef, not to mention that your friends might become enemies next day. Or that you can become risen yourself (which is according to the dialogues is worse than being just dead). It’s kinda hard to belive in the plot when everything around you tries to show how unserious everything is.

I was really hoping for the improvments in PS in S2, but well…

Tyrians have been dealing with the Elder Dragons and outside forces trying to killing them all for centuries and longer. Death is still hard for them, but they have probably long excepted the fact that austerities happen constantly.

• Centaurs killing and enslaving villages.
• NC abducting and torturing their own brethren.
• SoS willingly working for and spreading the influence of the being that drove them all from their homes.
• A disgraced legion trying to kill their was back to the top.
• Being subject to the actions and experiments of a large group of sociopaths that have no scruples when it comes to expanding their knowledge.

Not even counting the Elder Dragons, everyday life in Tyria kinda sucks.

Plus, I don’t mind the jokes at all, because people do try to brighten up a dark situation with humor all the times. Even if it’s in poor taste. Life sucks for them, and if they allowed themselves to get effected by it, the entire cast would be filled with dark brooding Negative Nancys that don’t see a point to fighting at all since they are obviously all going to die anyway.

Erukk.1408:

Tyrians have been dealing with the Elder Dragons and outside forces trying to killing them all for centuries and longer.

Constant war? Kinda reminds me of medieval Europe. But do you really think people were really be OK with that? I doubt. War and death is scary and pain is something you really want to avoid. It’s really hard to kill your instincts.

We may speculate that there are different races, and that norn and charr would maybe totaly fine being in such place. But then there are asura (not really brave kind), sylvari (emotional race), and humans.

Brightening up situation is alright… But it happens so often that I feel like I’m more emotionaly involved in the whole thing than they are. NPCs are behaving like it is something they are doing on daily basis: brush teeth, clean up room, kill dozen of risen, have a lunch. Even though in fact they kinda do it on daily basis, it still doesn’t really fit if you ask me. Everthing just looks plastic and emotionless to me.

As been mentioned, in some other games (I also can bring up bunch of examples) it was done kinda better, felt more natural.

That’s how people cope with dark or difficult situations.

Think about real life soldiers on active duty. Do you think they never make jokes? That everything they say and do is completely serious and all they ever talk about is how dire their situation is and how to stop it as soon as possible?

Of course not. If anything it’s the complete opposite – they talk about the mission when planning and completing it, at other times they almost try to forget it’s happening because if you focus on that all day every day it would ware you down faster than the actual fighting.

It’s similar (although a lot easier) in other situations. Fortunately I don’t have to deal with humans in life or death situations, but I do have to deal with a lot of frustrating, infuriating and depressing problems. And that’s what you do, you deal. When it’s happening you try to put your emotions aside and just do what needs to be done. Afterwards you rant about it to a colleague or go outside and rant or cry or whatever to yourself. And then you move on. You go and have lunch and talk about something totally different, you go home and when people ask what you did today you say “The usual” and tell them about an amusing email a colleague forwarded to you.

You can’t live your life only focusing on the bad things. Especially when they outweigh the good. Otherwise you will start to feel like it’s hopeless, stop caring and sooner or later you’ll make a stupid mistake.

The game established its mood from the outset. Throughout the personal story, the dynamic events, the renown hearts and the dungeons there’s either light-hearted reprieves or comic-book interpretations of urgency and danger.

GW2 is not without poignancy but as soon as even a hint of maudlin creeps in, the quips, babble and side remarks keep the light-hearted ball rolling. That’s totally fine, it’s GW2’s bag, and always has been.

Erukk.1408:

Tyrians have been dealing with the Elder Dragons and outside forces trying to killing them all for centuries and longer. Death is still hard for them, but they have probably long excepted the fact that austerities happen constantly.

• Centaurs killing and enslaving villages.
• NC abducting and torturing their own brethren.
• SoS willingly working for and spreading the influence of the being that drove them all from their homes.
• A disgraced legion trying to kill their was back to the top.
• Being subject to the actions and experiments of a large group of sociopaths that have no scruples when it comes to expanding their knowledge.

Not even counting the Elder Dragons, everyday life in Tyria kinda sucks.

Plus, I don’t mind the jokes at all, because people do try to brighten up a dark situation with humor all the times. Even if it’s in poor taste. Life sucks for them, and if they allowed themselves to get effected by it, the entire cast would be filled with dark brooding Negative Nancys that don’t see a point to fighting at all since they are obviously all going to die anyway.

Times are real sad if we have to justify it for the writers/designers every time a complaint like this arises. It’s one of the main problems I have with GW2, the story is not engaging because it lacks urgency or drama. Deaths like Tybalt’s or Forgal’s were meaningful, but at the same time they were downplayed.

Also, you don’t have to be Brooding Sylvari or Weeping Asura to convey a sense of darkness and peril. If that’s all a writer can come up, just to go to established conventions, tropes and cliches, maybe it’s time to reconsider your choice in career.

Rhaegar.1203:

Times are real sad if we have to justify it for the writers/designers every time a complaint like this arises. It’s one of the main problems I have with GW2, the story is not engaging because it lacks urgency or drama.

Not really a justification so much as a counter point.

Looks like a rationalization to me, to be honest.

Life doesn’t have to end just because the world is being threatened. If you stop living your life, then the enemy has already won.

Rhaegar.1203:

Times are real sad if we have to justify it for the writers/designers every time a complaint like this arises.

I don’t have to justify a gods-be-blasted thing.

It’s one of the main problems I have with GW2, the story is not engaging because it lacks urgency or drama. Deaths like Tybalt’s or Forgal’s were meaningful, but at the same time they were downplayed.

Incorrect. They were meaningless and trivialized. Forgal, most likely, could have had his sacrifice actually be meaningful and have impact. Nope. Tybalt could have done anything other than make a lame excuse (pun intended) for why he couldn’t get away – he’s an engineer, for Lyssa’s sake.

That’s just the “meaningless” part. The “trivialized” part comes when afterwards there’s almost no reflection, no real connection which is used to show these people existed as anything other than a mentor to get thrown off a cliff for the drama. There’s nothing to show these people existed at all after they’re gone – they might as well never have been sacrificed, or gone to Claw Island.

And I’d be more upset about it if this wasn’t also what Prophecies did way back in the day. Rurik was done decently. All of the sacrifices after the halfway point? Meaningless. And. Trivialized.

Also, you don’t have to be Brooding Sylvari or Weeping Asura to convey a sense of darkness and peril. If that’s all a writer can come up, just to go to established conventions, tropes and cliches, maybe it’s time to reconsider your choice in career.

Tropes are not bad

When used in good measure.

You have a lot of good points, and believe me, we agree on most things. GW2 storyline is not the game’s strongest suit, but it could have been.

Rhaegar.1203:

When used in good measure.

You have a lot of good points, and believe me, we agree on most things. GW2 storyline is not the game’s strongest suit, but it could have been.

There are a lot of things which could have been better but just aren’t. I pine about watching some shows where I get frustrated at a missed chance which could have been a good tool later on. (And I admire shows where the chances aren’t squandered so often . . . see “Detective Joss Carter” on “Person of Interest” for what I mean by a chance used to what I consider its full potential.)

I don’t like saying this, but I don’t expect ArenaNet’s writing staff to be entirely capable of having the skill (not talent, skill, there is a difference) to recognize when they let a chance sail by without acknowledging it. I think they’re decent enough but don’t have the skill through practice and experience to really seize the full scope of what they’re putting into the world when they make additions.

. . . and it’s not something which is just limited to ArenaNet. It’s a case across the board with writers in many mediums, who want to put something in their narrative/story/world but don’t understand how it necessarily changes things. (See: “Star Trek Replicators” vs “the Stargate”.)

Yes. The current “development cycle” we’re seeing heavily reminds me of the last updates in the original GW. They were about 2.3 developers working on it and you COULD tell.

Now it feels the same. Where is QA (Look at how bugged the last patch was)? Where are the more experienced writers?

And it may look like I’m roasting Anet, but actually I’m a big fan of their game; it’s just that things have so much potential and they sometimes take baffling decisions.

Missed chances, as you call them, seems to be the perfect term for it.

Rhaegar.1203:

Yes. The current “development cycle” we’re seeing heavily reminds me of the last updates in the original GW. They were about 2.3 developers working on it and you COULD tell.

Now it feels the same. Where is QA (Look at how bugged the last patch was)? Where are the more experienced writers?

Guild Wars Beyond wasn’t bad, honestly. It worked really well, and had the tough job of trying to further a storyline (ANY storyline). And despite that, it sort of worked – the missions involved were some of the ones I recall fondly as “this was suitably difficult and not for stupid reasons”, and I liked the characters I got to meet.

I wish they’d had the effort to do a third one for Nightfall but, alas.

This last patch here? I can tell why it bugged – they switched from instanced to open world and like always . . . the bugs crept in because they just don’t have the capacity to test something under “real open world” conditions.

I did enjoy the GW: Beyond storyline, and I found most of the quests challenging (OMG, When Kappa Attack HM was… OMG). And it was weird, cause it dealt with the part of Cantha I liked the least: The Empire of the Dragon (I enjoyed a lot more the Kurzick/Luxon bits).

I, too, would have loved a Nightfall edition for GW: Beyond, but sadly it never happened.

I do not mind “comedy quips” or some snarky remark.

usually something funny or stupid is beeing said to deescalate a situation, or to help the person saying that to calm down.

However for this “Story” so far it has not really been esablished who falls under such a charactertrait.

Since the Biconics (who are our “jokers” here) just play their roles now, every quip feels unnatural somehow.
The jump from danger to funny is just annoying (at least for me at the moment) and really takes out any “impact” certain szenes could have.

I would even get “clever” little side comments from some characters in dire situations to releave stress, but flat out joking feels wrong.

If it were me, I would have punched one of them in the face, after my near dead experience.

On the topic of people being light-hearted in seemingly dark situations, you might be surprised to know that this is exactly how a lot of people under extreme pressure and stress deal with it too. You may have heard stories of soldiers playing pranks on each other or doing silly things like taking Harlem Shake videos with military hardware. Well, jokes and goofing off is probably the safest, most positive way for these people to relieve stress. The alternative is for them to bottle it all up inside until they have a mental breakdown, or they seek refuge in alcohol, drugs and other mind-altering substances (which tend to have terrible effects on them long-term).

More than that, the human mind is extremely adaptable, and they quickly get used to scenes of extreme awfulness if it goes on long enough. That’s why you see things like children playing in pools left by bomb craters, even though bombs were falling on that area just two days earlier. When you live in prolonged situations where you could die at any time, paradoxically people tend to accept it after a while, and just go on living life the best they can.

One, if I wanted to know how real people react to bad stuff, I would take a long, depressing look at my family.

Two, while humor is a valid and very healthy coping mechanism, not EVERYONE uses the same. The Biconics are known for cracking jokes as a group. Even though one of their members just suffered a loss, and her partner in both work and life is laughing along.

Three, while the Human mind is adaptable, only one or two are Human. The rest, are not.

Kasmeer wasn’t the one who suffered the direct loss though. It’s like when my ex’s father passed away. I felt terrible for my then partner, but I couldn’t FEEL the loss like she did. When in situations away from the funeral, it wasn’t like I’d forgotten to laugh and smile. I can, and I did. That didn’t make me any less sympathetic to my partner’s grief.

If it was MARJORY who was joking and laughing in that situation, then yes, I’d have thought it extremely out of place. (Although, as you yourself pointed out, not everybody is the same. Maybe there IS someone out there who, at their loved one’s funeral, would laugh and crack jokes, because that’s how they cope. I know a relative who, when our grandmother died, basically became obsessed with handling all the funeral arrangements, and it had to be absolutely perfect down to the last detail. I know now that it was basically a way to stay in control so she wouldn’t break, but at the time my much younger self thought it was so stupid; “Grandma wouldn’t care what colour the table cloths are at her funeral, auntie!”)

We haven’t really seen much evidence to indicate that Charr, Norn or Asuran minds are that much different from humans though. In a lot of fantasy/sci-fi games, the de facto assumption is that all races are basically human-like in their mentality, with a few differences. (Which I do think is perhaps a wasted opportunity. The game world would be much more interesting if different races had vastly different outlooks on life and life priorities.)

I really don’t know. Personally? Irish wake is the way to go for how to handle things

“Life goes on. We have wept. We have prayed. We have laid our friend or loved one in the ground. Now we eat. We keep up our strength. We go on. In essence, that is the Irish wake.”

Every funeral I’ve been to (not many I admit) the service is a formal, sombre affair and then the wake is a lot more cheerful. It’s the time to share happy memories and funny stories about your loved one, and to catch up with family and friends in general.

My grandmothers wake was held in her house and when someone opened the service hatch between the kitchen and the dining room which she always kept closed we were even joking at any minute the pictures would start rattling and a gust of wind would blow it closed again. (Which is exactly the kind of thing my granny would do if she was a ghost. That and move things when you weren’t looking.)

It’s true that most of the characters aren’t human. But from what we’ve seen the other races thoughts and feelings are human enough that we can expect them to react in similar ways.

You’re at the Ley Line Hub, a place of significant force, and you’ve just woken up being rescued from Omadd’s Machine and have seen The Eternal Alchemy…

and your team is laughing about you look full of static electricity with hair standing up…

Where do I drop-kick this band of dysfunctional biconics and get myself a proper group of hardened adventurers who’ll live and die by the sword…

Is it too much asking for not only darker theme overall (which we’ve seen coming with end of LS1 and start of LS2) but also having dialogues reflect on this context too??

My brother one night passed out drunk in the middle of watching a movie, and proceeded to be out cold for twelve hours sleeping on the couch. We couldn’t get him to stir short of picking him up and dropping him on the floor, which he wound up to himself doing anyway around hour eleven by rolling over.

When he woke up, the first comment out of our father’s mouth? “Hey there, Sleeping Beauty, you’re lucky you woke up before the prince we called made it to kiss you.” And we all had a laugh.

This is contrary to what I witnessed one time at an amusement park where a staff person found a child who had wandered off from his mother . . . and after she hugged him she slapped him across the face hard enough to be heard fifty feet away where I was waiting for the restrooms.

For some people, and in general, the relief when something potentially bad has passed leads to joking. Because you need to bleed off the tension somehow.

For other people, it works other ways. I’ll take option A over option B.